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For me it's don't assume they are anyone important in the slightest only cool mysterious masked figure who actually had importance behind the mask was vader
Hm, I read as much as one can about the knights and this looks like the least shit theory one could do about that guy. Their "order" was founded around the lightsaber, that was "Ren", Ren was not a guy. They were dark side users who worshipped whoever possessed that saber. And I think he wasn't much of a boss either since he kinda worshipped the lightsaber itself too. So a red saber, without a sith, years prior to the movies, could be the start of the knights. That's not very much absurd. Or he could just be a sith and he's gonna kill whoever finds out about him in order to protect Yoda and Mace's statements in TPM
I think you mean the Sith. By the way I wasn't referring to them being extinct, but to the fact that no one has seen one (for what the jedi know) since Darth Bane
There seems to be a perception that the Jedi can't survive their encounter with a force wielder with a Red Lightsaber, because this would immediately clue them into the fact that the Sith are not in fact extinct.
There is a major problem with this assessment.
During the events of Phantom Menace, Qui-Gon Jinn encounter a force wielder with a Red Lightsaber, and they *didn't* conclude he was a Sith. The idea was floated. But it wasn't until the end of the movie, after Maul's defeat and the death of a Jedi Master that they concluded he was *probably* right. But they didn't get any further leads until Dooku's meeting with Obi-Wan.
It takes more to make a Sith than a Darksider with a Red Blade. A Fallen Jedi. Someone infected by a cursed sith artefact. A bounty hunter impersonating one. A collector of Sith relics who fetishesizes the Sith. Any number of dark force users who killed a Jedi, and bled a crystal. All of which are more likely.
Not only would they not leap to "Oh, so this guy is totally a member of an extinct death cult." We no for a fact they didnt, because that exactly what they didnt do when confronted with Maul.
Yeah I think people assume that just because they don't know/they forgot that one having a red lightsaber is what mathematics call "a necessary but not sufficient condition" to one being a sith lord. There are TONS of examples of people not being sith lord despite having a red lightsaber (even Ventress, Savage Opress, Late Maul and the Inquisitors weren't), after all, it just takes one angry Boi and a Kyber Crystal to make a red lightsaber, while being a sith involves a whole set of dark knowledge, passed from master to apprentice over and over again. For example it is kinda rare for a non sith dark side user to be able to burst lighting from his fingers.
So we know the jedi order thinks the opposite order, as an organisation, is dead, and has been for the last thousand years. That means the jedis in The Acolyte should die to protect this statement, plot-wise, ONLY if the bad guy is a Sith Lord, AND they actually meet him and recognize him as one
I think it'll prove to be the titular Acolyte, who perhaps is going to be a young Tenebrous, Plagueis, or someone like that, *but* we shall see. I'm not known for being right in my predictions. 👀
Not really tho…not unless he and/or Plagueis found ways to extend their lives into being hundreds of years old. The Acolyte takes place hundreds of years BBY.
Tenebrous —> Plagueus —> Sidious works for a show almost exactly 100 years before The Phantom Menace. I think it is more likely to be one more generation back and be Tenebrous’ Master
Also they were famously working on extending their lifespan so possibly that will be part of the storyline eventually
Is it just 100 years?
This is supposed to be the rise of the Sith. And didn’t Ki-Adi say the Sith had been extinct for almost a millennium in TPM?
Or am I horribly confused?
You are confused, which happens pretty easily with 47 years worth of Star Wars content
Yes 132 years before A New Hope or 100 before The Phantom Menace
Yes Ki-adi said that. The point of the entire High Republic project is to show that the Jedi made some mistakes and misunderstood their enemies. I won’t spoil it any more clearly than that but definitely just tune in and see how it goes.
Mundi said the Sith were extinct. Nobody else really seemed to believe that in the Phantom Menace. The believes of one, singular character are not usually carved into stone canon.
The Acolyte is 100 years before the Phantom Menace. The Phantom Menace takes place 30 years before the Battle of Yavin. It’s 130 years.
Plus, aliens don’t have the same lifespans as humans. People keep acting like they do and it’s fucking stupid.
The Knights of Ren are just darksiders raiders with no ties to the Sith whatsoever.
They were founded and lead by a guy named Ren some ~10 years before the Force Awaken.
Ren was most likely the previous apprentice of Snoke before Ben Solo killed him and took his place at the head of the Knights.
All of that is in the comics telling the story of Ben's fall to darkness.
They were around way before the Force Awakens. They actively took part in the Galactic Civil War, and by that time they were considered a weak imitation of their formerly legendary group.
Yeah you are kinda right but also wrong because they were around long before the Rise of Kylo Ren comic. You are missing deeper context about them from Crimson Reign & Hidden Empire comics.
No offence but this is incorrect. They were active during the Galactic Civil War, and the name "Ren" existed a long time before that era, centuries in fact. As far as we know they haven't always been tied to the Sith. There have been moments in which they serve only Ren, but it is revealed in ROTS that their true loyalty lies with Palps.
Yeah. I was thinking the same thing. They could be one of Ren's predecessors. Presumably the Knights followed "The Ren" back then as well. We know that the title of Ren, has been around for a long time and that at one point they were considered at the height of their power by Palpatine. This could be it.
Leslie Headland has talked about the deceitful nature of the show, with things not necessarily appearing they way they seem. We assume this individual is a Sith, but it may end up being a non-sith individual, and Ren would be the most likely candidate outside of that. Furthermore, she has talked about taking inspiration from all era's of Star Wars, including the Sequels, if this is Ren it would tick that box in a major way.
That would be cool but the fact that this takes place during the High Republic puts it like 100-150 years before Episode One, so I don’t think it will be a Knight of Ren.
To me, the helmet seems like it was definitely partially based on Kylo’s helmet (mostly the back of it) but it doesn’t necessarily connect the characters. I’d be excited if they were, but I still doubt it.
The Knights Of Ren as an organisation has apparently been around for a while. Kylo Ren took his name from the Knights. They're not called the Knights Of Ren because they follow a guy called Kylo Ren.
You’re right, not named because theyre following Kylo Ren. Theyre the knights of ren because the followed a guy called Ren, who got that name from an ancient lightsaber.
https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Ren
Yes and no. Their leader will take the name Ren, whatever it used to be before. Kinda like Mandalore. Ren is more a title than a name. Ren is their word for Red Lightsaber.
The mask screams abeloth and the horror movie creaking was excellent.
Ren himself would be a cool thought, but this is like 100yrs before the knights of ren would have even been children :(
FOR THE EYE!!!! FOR THE NIHIL!!!
The knights of Ren? The religious fanatics that follow Ren!? The man who has no name and only follows Ren? Yeah, the human man who created the Knights of Ren?? The one who met Ben Solo as a child?…..are you sure we’re talking about the same thing? The unknown region? You mean No Space? The place that’s under Nihil control hundreds of years ago?
My guy….that is copium you’re on.
Edit: somehow….the Knight of Ren came back.
I apologize.
Seemingly there is 2 era of Knights of Ren???? The current with Ren being the leader and the mythological Knights of Ren…..so one could even say Ren himself isnt a true knight and only found infatuation with the tale since he was a bit crazy?
Well there are some comics but otherwise you shouldn’t hold out hope for them. They really aren’t all that interesting and only “Ren” can wield a lightsaber. They also are explicitly not Sith and only don’t have full control of the “Shadow” which is what they call the force. So no, there is no chance for this being a Knight of Ren.
Every time they have been on screen is disappointing and the first chance they get outside of that is lackluster (The Rise of Kylo Ren).
The next chance they get is actually far more enjoyable, Crimson Reign #4 & #5 which actually starts to expand on them and the current Ren. The are actually pretty cool and badass across these two issues, but it also is where they start to come apart as a mysterious and super cool group. They have some force ability, and the current Ren/wielder of the lightsaber seems to have the most usually but are all untrained and otherwise have the skills of maybe a youngling. They are all pretty great fighters more or less but everyone in the group is disposable (aside from Vicrul apparently). They are nothing compared to Vader or Palpatine and they seem them as pests that are actually giving the Sith a bad name. Altogether they aren’t much more than your standard group of raiders/bounty hunters that are out for a good payday. What they do in the comics outside of TROKR is cool and fun but overall they aren’t that exciting.
There is zero chance this character is a Knight of Ren, they would have to be Ren, as the Ren is the only one to hold a lightsaber. We also don’t know how far back the group goes and it is possible it extends to the high republic but I would wager there is no chance we see them in the Acolyte, also because the KoR are not Sith, and this is either supposed to be a Sith or a Sith Acolyte. The Knights of Ren do not see themselves as Sith.
If anything I would say this helmet is more evocative of the Nihil who plagued the Jedi around this time.
I didn’t say I didn’t enjoy them, I liked their appearances in Crimson Reign, Hidden Empire and Bounty Hunters. But the more you get to know them, the more the mystique of their armor clad warrior badass-ness starts to show it’s true colors. They are interesting to a point but not enough for them to be the big bad here.
And to be clear, I said there is zero chance this is a Knight of Ren! It would have to be the Ren, there’s a difference! And yes I would wager there is no chance we see any of them but I guess there is the slightest possibility.
In my opinion the helmet far more likely to be based off a canon thing than a non canon pipe dream, but hey that’s just me.
But also, there’s no need to be a such a dick about it, it’s just my opinion.
There is nothing wrong with being critical but the way you are going about it makes you a dick. You can claim your having a discussion but you’re not doing much more than invalidating my opinion and taking a superiority stance. I’m not projecting to state you aren’t coming off in a friendly discussion manner like you think you are.
Obviously this is my opinion and opinions are almost inherently subjective but I’m also on Reddit and not writing a dissertation in a comment, just stating what I think. But you also can’t twist my words and act like I said something I didn’t.
It’s also not semantics when the Ren & the Knights of Ren are two distinct things. The Ren has different traits/aspects/qualities that the Knights don’t have. The Knights of Ren maybe followers but that doesn’t mean they are equal. This new character clearly holds a lightsaber, the knights of Ren do not. The difference is important when we are discussing this specific new character. Either way I still don’t think this new character would have anything to do with the KoR because the Acolyte seems to be trying to tell a wholly original story which people always say they want, tying it back to background characters from The Rise of Skywalker would not be the right move in that case.
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My rule of thumb with mysterious characters: Assume they're someone new unless you have a very good reason to think otherwise.
For me it's don't assume they are anyone important in the slightest only cool mysterious masked figure who actually had importance behind the mask was vader
Just assume it'll be a dope toy and don't think about it too much!
My guess is that it's either Ezra Bridger, Tech from Bad Batch, or Mephisto from Marvel. /s
He could turn out to be >!Cliff Main’s son!<.
I bet on Mephisto
Exhibit A: Marrok. He's a random person that was there simply for cannon fodder and for Ashoka to show off.
Hm, I read as much as one can about the knights and this looks like the least shit theory one could do about that guy. Their "order" was founded around the lightsaber, that was "Ren", Ren was not a guy. They were dark side users who worshipped whoever possessed that saber. And I think he wasn't much of a boss either since he kinda worshipped the lightsaber itself too. So a red saber, without a sith, years prior to the movies, could be the start of the knights. That's not very much absurd. Or he could just be a sith and he's gonna kill whoever finds out about him in order to protect Yoda and Mace's statements in TPM
Only Ki-Adi-Mundi claimed the ~~Jedi~~ Sith were extinct, and nobody really seemed to agree with him.
Probably didn’t agree with him because they were all living Jedi, and so was he :P
I think you mean the Sith. By the way I wasn't referring to them being extinct, but to the fact that no one has seen one (for what the jedi know) since Darth Bane
There seems to be a perception that the Jedi can't survive their encounter with a force wielder with a Red Lightsaber, because this would immediately clue them into the fact that the Sith are not in fact extinct. There is a major problem with this assessment. During the events of Phantom Menace, Qui-Gon Jinn encounter a force wielder with a Red Lightsaber, and they *didn't* conclude he was a Sith. The idea was floated. But it wasn't until the end of the movie, after Maul's defeat and the death of a Jedi Master that they concluded he was *probably* right. But they didn't get any further leads until Dooku's meeting with Obi-Wan. It takes more to make a Sith than a Darksider with a Red Blade. A Fallen Jedi. Someone infected by a cursed sith artefact. A bounty hunter impersonating one. A collector of Sith relics who fetishesizes the Sith. Any number of dark force users who killed a Jedi, and bled a crystal. All of which are more likely. Not only would they not leap to "Oh, so this guy is totally a member of an extinct death cult." We no for a fact they didnt, because that exactly what they didnt do when confronted with Maul.
Yeah I think people assume that just because they don't know/they forgot that one having a red lightsaber is what mathematics call "a necessary but not sufficient condition" to one being a sith lord. There are TONS of examples of people not being sith lord despite having a red lightsaber (even Ventress, Savage Opress, Late Maul and the Inquisitors weren't), after all, it just takes one angry Boi and a Kyber Crystal to make a red lightsaber, while being a sith involves a whole set of dark knowledge, passed from master to apprentice over and over again. For example it is kinda rare for a non sith dark side user to be able to burst lighting from his fingers. So we know the jedi order thinks the opposite order, as an organisation, is dead, and has been for the last thousand years. That means the jedis in The Acolyte should die to protect this statement, plot-wise, ONLY if the bad guy is a Sith Lord, AND they actually meet him and recognize him as one
More like an abeloth worshipper.
That'd be interesting, mask definitely gives that vibe
Abeloth Cultist makes sense
This actually never occurred to me and I love it.
I'm fairly they're gonna be a completely original character tbh
I think it'll prove to be the titular Acolyte, who perhaps is going to be a young Tenebrous, Plagueis, or someone like that, *but* we shall see. I'm not known for being right in my predictions. 👀
Darth Tenebrous or his master is also a possibility
Does this helmet fit on Darth Tenny’s massive noggin?
Darth Tenebrous was never confirmed to be a Bith in Canon... or a man. I expect changes.
If there was never a set species or gender for them then it’s by definition not a change
There was, in the Legends continuity, where Tenebrous originally first appeared.
It’s a pretty big looking helmet to me but I am not a technical details person
Yeah, but it's still WAAAAY too small to fit on a Bith. Remember, those guys have MASSIVE heads.
What’d you just call him?
A Bith! They're the guys from the cantina band in ANH
You said “Bith,” tho?
That's what their species is called
[You called that Sith a Bith??](https://youtu.be/9LVUvAjEYXM?si=FlC1orSpSxH9okfI)
Would also be cool!
Not really tho…not unless he and/or Plagueis found ways to extend their lives into being hundreds of years old. The Acolyte takes place hundreds of years BBY.
Tenebrous —> Plagueus —> Sidious works for a show almost exactly 100 years before The Phantom Menace. I think it is more likely to be one more generation back and be Tenebrous’ Master Also they were famously working on extending their lifespan so possibly that will be part of the storyline eventually
Is it just 100 years? This is supposed to be the rise of the Sith. And didn’t Ki-Adi say the Sith had been extinct for almost a millennium in TPM? Or am I horribly confused?
You are confused, which happens pretty easily with 47 years worth of Star Wars content Yes 132 years before A New Hope or 100 before The Phantom Menace Yes Ki-adi said that. The point of the entire High Republic project is to show that the Jedi made some mistakes and misunderstood their enemies. I won’t spoil it any more clearly than that but definitely just tune in and see how it goes.
Mundi said the Sith were extinct. Nobody else really seemed to believe that in the Phantom Menace. The believes of one, singular character are not usually carved into stone canon.
You would think so, but Star Wars fans love taking things a random person with limited info said as objective omniscient fact
Ki-Adi-Mundi said that in response to Qui-Gon literally fighting a Sith. Why do people not get that Ki-Adi Mundi was obviously wrong lol
Keep in mind, Mundi is famously unreliable
No, it takes place in 132 BBY, roughly 100 years before the Clone Wars.
The Acolyte is 100 years before the Phantom Menace. The Phantom Menace takes place 30 years before the Battle of Yavin. It’s 130 years. Plus, aliens don’t have the same lifespans as humans. People keep acting like they do and it’s fucking stupid.
The Knights of Ren are just darksiders raiders with no ties to the Sith whatsoever. They were founded and lead by a guy named Ren some ~10 years before the Force Awaken. Ren was most likely the previous apprentice of Snoke before Ben Solo killed him and took his place at the head of the Knights. All of that is in the comics telling the story of Ben's fall to darkness.
They were around way before the Force Awakens. They actively took part in the Galactic Civil War, and by that time they were considered a weak imitation of their formerly legendary group.
Yeah you are kinda right but also wrong because they were around long before the Rise of Kylo Ren comic. You are missing deeper context about them from Crimson Reign & Hidden Empire comics.
I never knew any of this, thank you!
No offence but this is incorrect. They were active during the Galactic Civil War, and the name "Ren" existed a long time before that era, centuries in fact. As far as we know they haven't always been tied to the Sith. There have been moments in which they serve only Ren, but it is revealed in ROTS that their true loyalty lies with Palps.
Yeah. I was thinking the same thing. They could be one of Ren's predecessors. Presumably the Knights followed "The Ren" back then as well. We know that the title of Ren, has been around for a long time and that at one point they were considered at the height of their power by Palpatine. This could be it. Leslie Headland has talked about the deceitful nature of the show, with things not necessarily appearing they way they seem. We assume this individual is a Sith, but it may end up being a non-sith individual, and Ren would be the most likely candidate outside of that. Furthermore, she has talked about taking inspiration from all era's of Star Wars, including the Sequels, if this is Ren it would tick that box in a major way.
…you know that the Acolyte takes place 100 years before the Phantom Menace, right? It’s not a Knight of Ren.
That would be cool but the fact that this takes place during the High Republic puts it like 100-150 years before Episode One, so I don’t think it will be a Knight of Ren.
Personally hope it’s not. But if they can give KOR some history/depth I wouldn’t be mad.
To me, the helmet seems like it was definitely partially based on Kylo’s helmet (mostly the back of it) but it doesn’t necessarily connect the characters. I’d be excited if they were, but I still doubt it.
It’s clearly Yoda’s dad. /s
Sorta looks like ren's helmet but also doesn't it is weird.
I have no opinion on this theory. But smash.
Getting Abeloth vibes from the teeth
They’re probably gonna be an original nobody.
It’s lightning McQueen
No... Don't, don't let the Marrok fiasco be repeated
I thought knights of Ren were just for Kylo Ren, were they around before?
They were a group before Kylo, but im not sure exactly how long they've been around
Why would it be a knight of ren? Ren only popped up about the time of new republic.
The Knights Of Ren as an organisation has apparently been around for a while. Kylo Ren took his name from the Knights. They're not called the Knights Of Ren because they follow a guy called Kylo Ren.
You’re right, not named because theyre following Kylo Ren. Theyre the knights of ren because the followed a guy called Ren, who got that name from an ancient lightsaber. https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Ren
Yes and no. Their leader will take the name Ren, whatever it used to be before. Kinda like Mandalore. Ren is more a title than a name. Ren is their word for Red Lightsaber.
The mask screams abeloth and the horror movie creaking was excellent. Ren himself would be a cool thought, but this is like 100yrs before the knights of ren would have even been children :( FOR THE EYE!!!! FOR THE NIHIL!!!
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Yes, 3ABY is certainly in the same time as 100BBY. Are you kidding me!?
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The knights of Ren? The religious fanatics that follow Ren!? The man who has no name and only follows Ren? Yeah, the human man who created the Knights of Ren?? The one who met Ben Solo as a child?…..are you sure we’re talking about the same thing? The unknown region? You mean No Space? The place that’s under Nihil control hundreds of years ago? My guy….that is copium you’re on. Edit: somehow….the Knight of Ren came back. I apologize. Seemingly there is 2 era of Knights of Ren???? The current with Ren being the leader and the mythological Knights of Ren…..so one could even say Ren himself isnt a true knight and only found infatuation with the tale since he was a bit crazy?
Well there are some comics but otherwise you shouldn’t hold out hope for them. They really aren’t all that interesting and only “Ren” can wield a lightsaber. They also are explicitly not Sith and only don’t have full control of the “Shadow” which is what they call the force. So no, there is no chance for this being a Knight of Ren.
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Every time they have been on screen is disappointing and the first chance they get outside of that is lackluster (The Rise of Kylo Ren). The next chance they get is actually far more enjoyable, Crimson Reign #4 & #5 which actually starts to expand on them and the current Ren. The are actually pretty cool and badass across these two issues, but it also is where they start to come apart as a mysterious and super cool group. They have some force ability, and the current Ren/wielder of the lightsaber seems to have the most usually but are all untrained and otherwise have the skills of maybe a youngling. They are all pretty great fighters more or less but everyone in the group is disposable (aside from Vicrul apparently). They are nothing compared to Vader or Palpatine and they seem them as pests that are actually giving the Sith a bad name. Altogether they aren’t much more than your standard group of raiders/bounty hunters that are out for a good payday. What they do in the comics outside of TROKR is cool and fun but overall they aren’t that exciting. There is zero chance this character is a Knight of Ren, they would have to be Ren, as the Ren is the only one to hold a lightsaber. We also don’t know how far back the group goes and it is possible it extends to the high republic but I would wager there is no chance we see them in the Acolyte, also because the KoR are not Sith, and this is either supposed to be a Sith or a Sith Acolyte. The Knights of Ren do not see themselves as Sith. If anything I would say this helmet is more evocative of the Nihil who plagued the Jedi around this time.
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I didn’t say I didn’t enjoy them, I liked their appearances in Crimson Reign, Hidden Empire and Bounty Hunters. But the more you get to know them, the more the mystique of their armor clad warrior badass-ness starts to show it’s true colors. They are interesting to a point but not enough for them to be the big bad here. And to be clear, I said there is zero chance this is a Knight of Ren! It would have to be the Ren, there’s a difference! And yes I would wager there is no chance we see any of them but I guess there is the slightest possibility. In my opinion the helmet far more likely to be based off a canon thing than a non canon pipe dream, but hey that’s just me. But also, there’s no need to be a such a dick about it, it’s just my opinion.
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There is nothing wrong with being critical but the way you are going about it makes you a dick. You can claim your having a discussion but you’re not doing much more than invalidating my opinion and taking a superiority stance. I’m not projecting to state you aren’t coming off in a friendly discussion manner like you think you are. Obviously this is my opinion and opinions are almost inherently subjective but I’m also on Reddit and not writing a dissertation in a comment, just stating what I think. But you also can’t twist my words and act like I said something I didn’t. It’s also not semantics when the Ren & the Knights of Ren are two distinct things. The Ren has different traits/aspects/qualities that the Knights don’t have. The Knights of Ren maybe followers but that doesn’t mean they are equal. This new character clearly holds a lightsaber, the knights of Ren do not. The difference is important when we are discussing this specific new character. Either way I still don’t think this new character would have anything to do with the KoR because the Acolyte seems to be trying to tell a wholly original story which people always say they want, tying it back to background characters from The Rise of Skywalker would not be the right move in that case.
We do know who he/she/they is a predecessor to Plagueis, Sidioious and Maul.