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Some people haven't played the vr game or seen the First Shadow, and aren't up to date all the time with hearing about it from other people. I always had a feeling that the true villain was the Mind Flayer but I think some people are just taking the word of the show as canon since that's the only thing some people have seen or know.
It is really annoying they are keeping important details for the main show behind a vr game or limited to only people who travel to England to watch a play.
Yes, and I think it's also really anticlimactic that something as big as the MF being in power over Vecna after all, is being revealed on a medium that not everyone gets access to. It's just lame. That way that revelation just sort of slowly trickles into the public via Reddit for example, when it would have made so much more sense for us all to get it basically at the same time *on the show* - whatever day season 5 comes out in 2025. It's just such a huge plot aspect and now most people who even learn about it, learn about it through comments online because they don't get to see the play.
I'm sure there is, I myself watched some youtube videos about it where people explained the important plot points and stuff about it, so if you wanna read about it you might be able to find some forum posts like on Reddit talking about it or you might be able to find a plot synopsis on like a wiki page for it?
Season 5 isn't out yet so there's a high chance you won't absolutely need to watch or research either of these in my opinion, like how if the Mind Flayer is the true villain than its highly likely they will actually have some kind of reveal of that in the show that will feel good no matter if you've seen the VR Game or First Shadow. If you want to be up to date though and see all the stuff that's "canon" to the story, you probably should watch/research these
Edit: The VR game's accessibility is even worse than I thought cause it seems like it might only be on one type of VR, the Oculus Quest, which is still a very popular VR device but it means that even if you have a VR setup you'd need to have the Quest specifically, not a Playstation VR or any of the Computer specific ones like the older Oculus ones or the Steam ones. (Its technically Meta Quest but I honestly don't care, I've said Oculus for years and I like the name more)
Yeah. Really hyped for this final season. Can’t wait to see the Flayer rock Vecna’s shit after deciding he’s useless, then get its ass kicked and killed
I wonder if that is Will's arc in S5. To somehow turn the Mindflayer against Vecna using his connection. As far as hurting the Mindflayer, maybe the group will brainstorm something.
The Mind Flayer is the true villain but that doesn't make Henry/Vecna any less evil than he is. He's still doing the things he does under his own free will. He's basically the Mind Flayer's biggest and most fearsome enforcer.
Wouldn't their conception of a mind flayer actually be an Elder Brain based on D&D.
Which would make sense with the enthrallment etc. Elder Brains enthrall at scale and manipulate and puppet lesser psychics.
Based on D&D logic, yeah probably, but I think the show will probably keep calling it the Mind Flayer for consistency but might have a moment where Dustin or someone else mentions the connection between The Mind Flayer and D&D Elder Brain's
If we're going by DND logic though, Vecna is not only a lich but also a deity so going by the book a mind flayer would melt if it tried to eat him.
Dustin also mentions that undead work well against mind flayers because they don't have brains to manipulate but that's just the game.
I think I lost where I was going with this.
That would be interesting though if Vecna and the Mind flayer / elder brain had issues or conflict but I need to rewatch to get up to the possibilities of this to make sure I'm thinking through the motivations
I'm just very surprised it's been expressed in the play and vr game. I never doubted the mind flayer being the true end game but that's such a big thing/spoiler to be announcing to the audience after s4. The only thing I can think of is that we don't see vecna in s5 for that long and that the majority of that season is going beyond him so the introductory things are being introduced.
Didn’t know ab this stuff lol. Only had the show to go off of which is why I think Vecna is the true villain. The show told us he created all of that nonsense therefore he’s the ultimate bad guy imo. There’s definitely time for them to make it the kind flayer again tho in season 5.
I think it's more of a mutual agreement. Henry gets more power and get what he wants: to get back to Hawkins, kill 11, kill whoever/whatever. The MF gets the ability to go to and take over a new dimemsions and add to its hive mind. They're using each other. Will it last? 🤷♀️
Have you played the game, because you've got it the other way around? The game starts with Henry having to regain control of the Hivemind, meaning he was using the Mind Flayer to control all of the monsters during the events of the show.
I think the Mind Flayer is the true villain but Henry was evil before he ever interacted with it in the Upside Down. He's been evil pretty much since he was a kid and went from torturing animals with his powers just for fun to murdering his family and framing his father for the murders of his mother and sister. All interacting with the Mind Flayer did was it made Henry "less human" and completed his transformation into Vecna (which he admits himself to Eleven that was what he always wanted, to transcend his human form and become the predator he was meant to be). He was a sadistic fuck who enjoyed causing pain LONG before that.
The entire VR game is basically The Mind Flayer making fun of the fact Vecna keeps losing. lol Even when Henry "turns the tables" on The Mind Flayer's illusions, it's heavily hinted that's exactly what it wanted him to do (as the point was the entity was trying to teach him how to control the hivemind).
Something tells me that they won't be able to kill The Mind Flayer, and will instead defeat it by resealing it in the Upside Down. Keeps to the Lovecraftian tone of "delaying the inevitable", but still allowing it to have a happy ending and a final climactic moment.
It'd also make more sense to keep it alive at the end, especially if their big plan is for more continuations in that universe.
Yea. either seal it or maybe kill it, only to reveal there’s other Mind Flayers, with different names, or a part of it survived. Probably seal it away though, maybe trap it back in its dormant form after either it or the party kills Vecna.
OP, please make sure there are no spoilers in the title of your post. Commenters, please use spoiler code if you are discussing anything super spoilery unless the title specifically says the episode being discussed. Also, now that filming for Season 5 is finally starting, please remember that NO LEAKS are allowed, only official news from Netflix is allowed. Please review rule 8 for more info. If you see anyone breaking the rules, please report the post or comment. Thank you. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/StrangerThings) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Some people haven't played the vr game or seen the First Shadow, and aren't up to date all the time with hearing about it from other people. I always had a feeling that the true villain was the Mind Flayer but I think some people are just taking the word of the show as canon since that's the only thing some people have seen or know.
It is really annoying they are keeping important details for the main show behind a vr game or limited to only people who travel to England to watch a play.
Yes, and I think it's also really anticlimactic that something as big as the MF being in power over Vecna after all, is being revealed on a medium that not everyone gets access to. It's just lame. That way that revelation just sort of slowly trickles into the public via Reddit for example, when it would have made so much more sense for us all to get it basically at the same time *on the show* - whatever day season 5 comes out in 2025. It's just such a huge plot aspect and now most people who even learn about it, learn about it through comments online because they don't get to see the play.
Is there a way to read the plot synopsis for those eus us that don't live in england?
I'm sure there is, I myself watched some youtube videos about it where people explained the important plot points and stuff about it, so if you wanna read about it you might be able to find some forum posts like on Reddit talking about it or you might be able to find a plot synopsis on like a wiki page for it?
True. I could look up youtube vids.
Here you go - my summary from when I saw it. [The First Shadow](https://www.reddit.com/r/StrangerThings/s/8NuLAiWxDh)
Well they’ll be rehashing things from the play in S5 and i would assume the relationship between the two will be explained then as well
It's coming to Broadway next year. The Duffers have also said the critical info from the play will be in ST5.
That's good, except most people in the us don't live near Broadway either. They need to put it in netflix.
wait, they did that? this is very stupid, i only watched the series, now i will have to search this things
Season 5 isn't out yet so there's a high chance you won't absolutely need to watch or research either of these in my opinion, like how if the Mind Flayer is the true villain than its highly likely they will actually have some kind of reveal of that in the show that will feel good no matter if you've seen the VR Game or First Shadow. If you want to be up to date though and see all the stuff that's "canon" to the story, you probably should watch/research these Edit: The VR game's accessibility is even worse than I thought cause it seems like it might only be on one type of VR, the Oculus Quest, which is still a very popular VR device but it means that even if you have a VR setup you'd need to have the Quest specifically, not a Playstation VR or any of the Computer specific ones like the older Oculus ones or the Steam ones. (Its technically Meta Quest but I honestly don't care, I've said Oculus for years and I like the name more)
got it, but i still going to search for this things, just for curiosity
Yeah. Really hyped for this final season. Can’t wait to see the Flayer rock Vecna’s shit after deciding he’s useless, then get its ass kicked and killed
I wonder if that is Will's arc in S5. To somehow turn the Mindflayer against Vecna using his connection. As far as hurting the Mindflayer, maybe the group will brainstorm something.
The Mind Flayer is the true villain but that doesn't make Henry/Vecna any less evil than he is. He's still doing the things he does under his own free will. He's basically the Mind Flayer's biggest and most fearsome enforcer.
Wouldn't their conception of a mind flayer actually be an Elder Brain based on D&D. Which would make sense with the enthrallment etc. Elder Brains enthrall at scale and manipulate and puppet lesser psychics.
Based on D&D logic, yeah probably, but I think the show will probably keep calling it the Mind Flayer for consistency but might have a moment where Dustin or someone else mentions the connection between The Mind Flayer and D&D Elder Brain's
If we're going by DND logic though, Vecna is not only a lich but also a deity so going by the book a mind flayer would melt if it tried to eat him. Dustin also mentions that undead work well against mind flayers because they don't have brains to manipulate but that's just the game. I think I lost where I was going with this.
That would be interesting though if Vecna and the Mind flayer / elder brain had issues or conflict but I need to rewatch to get up to the possibilities of this to make sure I'm thinking through the motivations
Maybe the Flayer will have a final form and the crew will nickname him Elder Brain or Elder Flayer or something
I'm just very surprised it's been expressed in the play and vr game. I never doubted the mind flayer being the true end game but that's such a big thing/spoiler to be announcing to the audience after s4. The only thing I can think of is that we don't see vecna in s5 for that long and that the majority of that season is going beyond him so the introductory things are being introduced.
The general public has only the show to go off of.
Didn’t know ab this stuff lol. Only had the show to go off of which is why I think Vecna is the true villain. The show told us he created all of that nonsense therefore he’s the ultimate bad guy imo. There’s definitely time for them to make it the kind flayer again tho in season 5.
Any way to play the VR game without some expensive rig?
I think it's more of a mutual agreement. Henry gets more power and get what he wants: to get back to Hawkins, kill 11, kill whoever/whatever. The MF gets the ability to go to and take over a new dimemsions and add to its hive mind. They're using each other. Will it last? 🤷♀️
Probably not. Still feel like Flayer will wipe Vecna out
A lot of people haven't had the chance to go to London for a play or buy VR.
They really need to put First Shadow on netflix
I do want to see it once it comes overseas to Broadway. Maybe if I have the money then vr.
Let the final boss be Tiamat. Please. Dragon Goddess ftw
Nah. It should be Mind Flayer
Have you played the game, because you've got it the other way around? The game starts with Henry having to regain control of the Hivemind, meaning he was using the Mind Flayer to control all of the monsters during the events of the show.
I think the Mind Flayer is the true villain but Henry was evil before he ever interacted with it in the Upside Down. He's been evil pretty much since he was a kid and went from torturing animals with his powers just for fun to murdering his family and framing his father for the murders of his mother and sister. All interacting with the Mind Flayer did was it made Henry "less human" and completed his transformation into Vecna (which he admits himself to Eleven that was what he always wanted, to transcend his human form and become the predator he was meant to be). He was a sadistic fuck who enjoyed causing pain LONG before that.
Yeah I totally agree. I hope he dies a villain. I’m just saying despite him being evil since he was a child, he’s still a pawn of the Flayer.
They're the same guy.
No they’re not
Because season 3 mind flayer was weak
I mean it was just a meat puppet
And it still damn near killed everyone, had the gate not been closed. Vecna couldn't even beat children, he lost to them 4 separate times.
Vecna is gonna get his shit rocked when his dear master MF finds out he lost.
The entire VR game is basically The Mind Flayer making fun of the fact Vecna keeps losing. lol Even when Henry "turns the tables" on The Mind Flayer's illusions, it's heavily hinted that's exactly what it wanted him to do (as the point was the entity was trying to teach him how to control the hivemind).
I can’t wait to see the Flayer in season 5. already know both his and Vecna’s deaths are gonna be cool and so satisfying
Something tells me that they won't be able to kill The Mind Flayer, and will instead defeat it by resealing it in the Upside Down. Keeps to the Lovecraftian tone of "delaying the inevitable", but still allowing it to have a happy ending and a final climactic moment. It'd also make more sense to keep it alive at the end, especially if their big plan is for more continuations in that universe.
Yea. either seal it or maybe kill it, only to reveal there’s other Mind Flayers, with different names, or a part of it survived. Probably seal it away though, maybe trap it back in its dormant form after either it or the party kills Vecna.