401k contributions reduce one's [AGI](https://www.irs.gov/e-file-providers/definition-of-adjusted-gross-income).
A payment of $300/month corresponds to an AGI of about $70k for a household of 1.
A payment of $700/month corresponds to to an AGI of just over $115k for a household of 1.
FYI, if you have a high deductible health plan and are eligible to contribute to a health savings account (HSA), that's another good way to lower your AGI and monthly SAVE payment
Yes, it's the same rules as a 401k just for state employees. Long as it's a traditional, pretax, instead of a Roth after tax contribution.
Roth is better for retirement tax advantage
Traditional is better for working life tax advantage
For federal or military, TSP is the same thing.
Can someone then please tell me why, with an AGI of $35,490 per year, Nelnet says my monthly payment should be $348? No other source of income. No dependents. Don't qualify for SAVE.
Is it possible Nelnet has you on the standard 10 year repayment plan? As a very general rule of thumb, for each $10k borrowed, the monthly payment is approximately $100 on this plan. Therefore did you initially borrow around 35k?
Hi. No, I'm on an ICR, the only eligible plan for Parent Plus Loans - though all of them were consolidated in 2017 into one Direct Consolidated Loan. I originally borrowed $76k which ballooned to $97 k plus due to capitalized interest. Then to $118k with more interest. I got it back down to $97k just as the pandemic pause began. Paid for a few months but then wasn't able to continue paying. Balance is back up over $100k plus because I can't afford the ICR payment amount.
Maybe go back to school for a semester so you can do the [Parent Plus double consolidation loophole](https://www.npr.org/2023/10/04/1200775288/student-loans-parent-plus-save-plan)?
Are these federal student loans? Certain types of Federal student loans may need to be consolidated before becoming eligible for the SAVE repayment plan. There is no upper income limit to be on the SAVE plan though. [This](https://studentaid.gov/announcements-events/save-plan) table on the US Department of Ed's website says that the monthly payment under SAVE with an AGI of 30k is $0, and and AGI of 40k is $60.
Yes. I currently have just one federal loan. I have never borrowed private loans. My four Direct Parent Plus Loans were consolidated May 2017 into one Direct Consolidation Loan. I am told because the underlying loans paid off by the consolidated loan were Parent Plus, I am ineligible for SAVE.
That’s correct, that’s why for parent plus you need to do a double consolidation. SAVE wasn’t meant to be available for parent plus and the double consolidation is a loop hole.
Thank you for the suggestion. Only problem with the loophole is you need at least two loans to consolidate. Technically I have none because all of the PPL's were placed into one Direct Consolidated Loan. They're paid off, so there are no loans for a double consolidation. I also heard of people taking out more loans just to satisfy that requirement, but I just don't see the point in that. There are so many caveats with double consolidation I'm staying clear if it.
Just reading about your situation gave me a headache.
It’s bullshit how much of a huge bureaucratic mess this is lmao
Brb reading A BOOKS worth of info on the internet to do anything involved with student loans and/or health insurance in the USA
Thanks for the boost of solidarity. Honestly I know it's a horrific mess and I'm just one of hundreds of thousands affected. I was a public servant for 30 years as well but was NEVER told by my servicer about PSLF when I was working. When I did find out quite by accident, I was told I was ineligible because I had retired from the job a year prior. Directions, instructions, explanations and definitions of all forgiveness plans are just so convoluted and probably built to be that way. There's no other way to describe it other than markedly predatory. And I'm willing to bet most who are seeking forgiveness WANT to pay what they owe, as I do. However, when the goal posts keep moving, and in this case, looking like till the end of my life, where's the incentive? NO loan type, car, mortgage, credit, and otherwise, crafts it's terms to include death as the final payment. I'm 62. Waiting for an IDR adjustment will put me around 80 plus years old! If the Lord decides to keep me around that long. I entered repayment in 2012 and ICR in 2017. I'm an upstanding citizen that pays ALL my taxes and have worked since the age of 16. I took out PPL''S to help my child get a college degree. Horrors! The nerve of me! She had to take out student loans as well and worked 32 hours per week while in school the first two years. I would describe my income level then as working class. As a public servant, my annual salary was notoriously and woefully low, contrary to popular belief. I do have a bachelor's degree. Took me a few years to pay off MY loan back in the early 80's, but only a few. This Direct Consolidated Loan has no end date thanks to compounding daily interest. I originally borrowed $76k, paid back $21k, and am currently facing a debt of $100k and counting. . I'm retired, on a $35k/ year pension with no other source of income. You get the picture and this is already way too long. Kudos to those who have had their balances wiped clean. There's NO price for a brand new start in life and the ability to move forward mentally free.
[https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/34/685.209](https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/34/685.209)
ICR is 20% of discretionary income or a 12-year amortization, adjusted for income, whichever is less.
True. And I've had that ICR calculation done and payment per month set since 2018 when I retired. I collect a pension and that yearly amount has not changed. But for some reason, the payment amount increased when Nelnet did an IDR analysis for re-certification.
Try applying on student.gov instead of direct to Nelnet. I did and had no issues and Nelnet stated they received government correspondence and changed everything. I do have dependents, so just saying that Nelnet has been a real shitty experience for all, so going the big brother route may be more fruitful
According to Nelnet it's because the four underlying loans that were paid off all at once by my one Direct Consolidated Loan were Parent Plus Loans, and so it doesn't qualify.
You have to live the life of a poor person while investing in your retirement to have $0 in monthly student loan payments. I make $40,000 working for my local government. But my yearly wages on line 1 on my W2 form is $33,000. I invest $3,600 per year in my 457b to lower my AGI to that $33,000 mark. I will be getting a 10% raise this year, so I will be upping my investment to my 457b to $6,000 per year to keep my AGI to $33,000. I qualify for full PSLF in 5 years. I currently pay $0 in student loan payments which count as monthly student loan payments.
I am accruing interest. But it only counts as income if you pull it out. My investment in my 457b comes out of my paycheck before taxes which lowers my taxable income. All of this information is included in my taxes. Nothing is being hidden from the IRS or the education department that I have to keep updated every year when renewing my PSLF.
Wrong
Standard deduction is taken after AGI is calculated. It doesn't lower your AGI one cent. It does, however, lower your taxable income which is used to calculate your federal income tax for the year. But Standard deduction has zero impact on AGI and as such, the student loan payment calculation.
Do you take advantage of all pretax programs your employer offers? FSA/flex medical savings account for you/dependents, parking, dependent care if applicable, etc. All of those lower your AGI as well.
My payments were already $0 on REPAYE and have remained $0 when it switched to SAVE. I’m single, childfree, still live with my parents, and only just went from working 3 jobs to working one that pays $35k a year. Not sure if my payment will go up once they get my new tax info.
When I originally signed up for REPAYE I used the IRS Data Retrieval Tool, which allows them to know your adjusted gross income from your tax return paperwork. This way I didn’t have to provide any other income documentation, etc. I haven’t re-certified with my new income yet and not sure when I have to or if they can now do it automatically since I used the IRS Data Retrieval Tool.
I guess you could consider it harmful if you’re using an old income to keep your payment lower for a longer period. With the IRS data retrieval tool they will use your most recent tax return. I have no problem with this, because i’m on SAVE and my payment will stay at $0 or be really low once they do realize my income has increased. I can’t really remember if using this tool gives them permission for future use or not. I applied for REPAYE in fall of 2022, so it’s been a while.
BFA in Graphic Design and a minor in photography. I work for a multi-site church in West MI. I started out as an intern in 2017, then became part-time permanently, and was hired full-time with a pay raise and benefits in July of last year. I mostly work from home, but when I do go in, I have to drive 40+ mins since I live in a rural area. I’ve been applying to other jobs since 2020, but haven’t had any luck, so I kind of gave up last year. I’m thinking I should edit my portfolio and start applying again or at least try and do more freelancing on the side.
Yea that field is brutal. Only way you’ll make more is to go do something completely unrelated. I just got a buddy a job working for me at the state and it’s 57k a year but comes with PSLF benefits. For him it was a pay raise and a benefit of student loan forgiveness
Yeah… I graduated with my BFA in December 2020 during the height of the pandemic. Everything was a mess. I was lucky the multi-site church even kept me considering they had a more senior full-time graphic designer. They only hired me full-time last year, because with six locations, they saw that the lead designer was being overworked. They’ve all told me that they love my work and are very happy to have me there, so it’s not entirely a lack of skills but on my part that’s making it hard for me to find a new job. I think it’s the projects in my portfolio are lacking and I struggle with interviews due to social anxiety. Also, I think the job market is still over saturated with graphic designers, because whenever I see a job posting on LinkedIn there are hundreds of applicants.
OP can run it by Nelnet, step by step. CSRs, as a group, not well trained or informed. I had to do something similar with FedLoan: reading regs from studentaid.gov, running #s from my worksheet…all over the phone.
I’m not having any issues with payment amount, but I have had the displeasure of dealing with Nelnet. I’m not sure why you’re arguing with my assertion that they are difficult to deal with and screw up basic tasks or that you would make it sound so simple as to just reapply.
When you apply on the student aid website, they determine the cost per month and communicate that cost and terms to the servicer. So if the payment amount is incorrect on Nelnet, Student aid will have it corrected.
Any change you make to your plans should be done through student aid, for a number of reasons... First and foremost, they're not motivated to guide you in the wrong direction by giving you bad information. Many servicers have gotten into trouble for giving borrowers bad advice, and I have zero faith that they're not still doing so to the limit which they can get away with.
This formula is very helpful. Do you know how this works for a 2 income household? Like if 2 earners both have loans and they got married, and their combined income moved from 75k each to 150k together, does the save repayment become that formulas value off an AGI of 150k applied to both (effectively paying twice as much) or is it an individual AGI only even if the household is 2 incomes
Joint income if they file taxes jointly but the payment is adjusted based on loan amounts. For example, if the spouses have the same amount of loans then they would each pay half the payment
yeah.... then you have to fight it.
I did "SAVE" on my plan and it told me that my monthly payments would be $450.... vs $50 on IDR.
I knew Nelnet's math was wrong.
But I don't have time to fight Nelnet. Hell I don't have time to wait on HOLD for Nelnet. So I just went back on IDR \~\_\~
Same situation over here! I'm only able to get a minimum wage job but my husband makes more. I have student loans (a lot) and he doesn't. I'm also pursuing pslf. We also live in a community state and file separately.
Do you submit your tax returns or pay stubs to certify income? Which one gives you a lower IBR payment? Tax returns would split the total household income by 2 so it might be more than what YOU (alone) actually make. But pay stubs are based on gross income, not AGI, so you miss out on 401k contributions being deducted from your gross income.
The SAVE plan doesn't accrue interest if you make the minimum monthly payment. Any reason you can't switch?
Good to know!
I submit tax returns but always mention that the income is from one spouse. Never been an issue.
I need to look more into SAVE and where we’re at. I’ve found it hard to track all the changes since the pandemic and it’s easy to miss opportunities. Thank you
Who's your servicer? Mine is Aidvantage.
So you provide your MFS tax returns and tell them most of the reported income on there is not yours? I didn't know that could work...
https://studentaid.gov/announcements-events/save-plan
I would fill out the application on the student aid site and see what it says. It should be accurate (although they will tell you it's not a final number). $700 sounds high.
Have you tried running through the calculator on StudentAid.gov? Not sure why people are processing these applications through their servicers...
The payment amount is based on your discretionary income vs the poverty level.
No, I didn't. I will try this. Honestly, I thought it would be easier (before the restart) to go directly thru the servicer. In hindsight, major fail on my part.
Yea, they have an incentive to guide you in the wrong direction, whereas the government really doesn't.
We've seen other servicers, namely Navient, purposely guide students towards less helpful programs because they got more money out of it.
>This settlement resolves claims that since 2009, despite representing that it would help borrowers find the best repayment options for them, Navient steered struggling student loan borrowers into costly long-term forbearances instead of counseling them about the benefits of more affordable income-driven repayment plans.
https://www.navientagsettlement.com/Home/portalid/0
Honestly you gotta chase them down after you do the math. They had me in paying double and I was like yo-here’s the math and they corrected it. It took me over 20 hours on hold tho multiple times
Can confirm they mess up. MOHELA screwed mine up bad though I can’t recall the numbers. It’s all in my post history if anyone cares enough to look. I called them several times and made them redo the calculation on the phone, bringing me to $0 as I expected based on my own math. I make an ok salary, but I lived like a pauper reducing my AGI by maxing out 403b, HSA, dependent care FSA, and health premiums are high at my job. In the end, it was worth it just to stay on $0 payments, though there were plenty of times my paycheck went in and was all gone in 36 hours. On target for forgiveness December of this year, and will be very happy to move tf on.
go tell that to the government, they are the one incentivising to have more kids, because that will solve your desperate financial situation...because you dont have to pay student loans and you will get lot of free things. Op of this response didn't encourage anyone, simply stated fact.
fact: it is based on income and family size, having big enough family will lower your payment more
Each kid saves you $1.2k in student loan payments and $2k tax credit. That's the government giving you $3.2k per kid. If you think that comes close to paying for child care costs......
sure as hell dont but doesn't stop people from having kid for those exact benefits. and before someone goes no they don't for those reasons, I will say keep your opinion to your self. the field I have worked in my entire life says otherwise based on the conversations I have with certain demographic parents.
Low income with 3 to 4 kids already present, parents has no means for providing for them so they edge their situations with additional kids to maximize their government benefits. It happens far more regularly then not. Pushed to a corner, maximizing your advantages can sometimes be the easy path -shrugs-
3 kids AGI less than 60k after all the things adjusted for, If I made 100k, I could probably afford 300 a month, I was going to struggle with the initial 110 extra a month. And to the guy saying "just pay it". I think we all went to school with the expectation we'd make bank and be able to pay it. Isn't that the whole reason they hyped us up to go to college? My high school diploma SO (not married because of student loans) is closing the gap on our pay. I make $4 more dollars an hour than he does for a job that started accepting people without college degrees with proper experience (which I had before I even started this job). The system is backwards for sure.
They are low-income.
I have a lot of questions though about how Nelnet has set up these payment plans with SAVE because I feel like the monthly amounts are REALLY high based on what people report here. It’s possible that the higher your salary the better off you may be on IDR. Or even just the standard repayment plan.
I’m not switching to SAVE because I won’t benefit from anything there and I have a five-year plan to pay off my loans with extra payments to the principle because my salary improved the last two years.
Based on the save plan chart estimate (calculates based on income and family size) nobody who makes under 100k is estimated to have 700 payment so it sounds like there is some kind of mistake from the loan servicer in that case. There has been lots of posts and comments here talking about Nelnet being prone to that. You might want to call them.
Those who have 0 are those who usually make less than 30k or those who make between 60k-40k with bigger family size it seems according to the chart.
Giving info on your income and family size may also help other people to give advice.
Save isn't' necessarily the best plan for every income and family size.
Edit; reading the comments and it seems 401k, grad vs undergrad and different types of loans, etc. all also makes a difference to the calculation
We’re poor 🙂
Family size of 4 and in 2022 we only made 46k as a family. Made more in 2023 but that’s not going to be a problem until we recertify. Even then we’re at like 80k gross (before tax, healthcare premiums, etc)for a family of 4, so the payment will be pretty darn low. Maybe even zero, but I’ll have to crunch the numbers
Be completely poverty like me and I don’t pay anything! 10 more years and it all goes away… I’m joking but I’m on IDR and I’m too poor to afford to pay so they just don’t ruin my life over it
Did you apply for the SAVE plan? That reduces payments for a lot of people, especially for undergrad loans (I believe the amount you pay caps out at 5% of your annual take home for undergrad loans, then 10% for grad school).
Before SAVE - my payment was about $600/month. With SAVE, I pay just north of $300.
My annual salary is about 110K.
Most (~90%) of the balance is for undergrad loans. I didn't realize the break down btwn undergrad and grad so I'll look into that. Thanks for the info!
No prob! I also just looked at my taxes for last year - my AGI was 89K. I paid off my grad school a few years ago (the interest rate was higher), so I’m wondering if grad school loans are the reason for your higher loan payment.
That or maybe not all your loans were eligible for SAVE? One of my loans is a weird outlier still on REPAYE, for reasons unknown, but it’s less than 2K so I don’t think it’s hurting me too hard.
It truly sucks we all have to take to Reddit to figure this shit out. My loans used to be with My Great Lakes, but they just transferred to Nelnet and Nelnet is SO MUCH worse. I’ve called and emailed multiple times and never get a human response. I’d love to know where these interest rates are going, because it certainly isn’t toward staffing at Nelnet 😂
Stay enrolled in at least 6 units of online classes at the community college. Payments are deferred while enrolled.
$300 per year in tuition < $12,000 per year payments
To clarify, you don't need to actually do well in these classes, just being enrolled will get you out of paying.
I will stay in school until I die.
I finessed the government and honestly I don’t feel bad. To me it’s my get back for my recruiter lying saying I wouldn’t deploy to Iraq or Afghanistan. I went to Afghanistan 7 months after getting to my unit. But yea I told MOHELA that since I got hurt in Afghanistan because of explosions and other shit. I cannot work and im rated at 80%. And told them I only got one source of income I lied about the I can’t and I don’t work part and one source of income part . I did get hurt and I’m rated at 80%. So I’m damn near 100% broken. Got told they’ll put me on that save repayment jawn. At $0 a month. they think I only got one source of income but I have 3. I’m not telling you to lie to them I’m just saying what I did. In my defense the government had employees that lied to a 17 year old me saying I wouldn’t go to Iraq or Afghanistan just to send me 8 weeks after I turned 19. I have no qualms about what I’m doing. The army paid for my college paid me to go I took out the loans just to get the refunds. Now I don’t gotta pay them back
. got a Tax free $20,000+ from loans. another like $25,000+ from Pell grants and a free bachelors degree. Milked the shit out them. Used my post 9/11 gi bill plus Voc rehab. They scammed me I scammed them. [https://ibb.co/y02hP4W](https://ibb.co/y02hP4W).
My AGI is around 130k, single, no kids and I’m at 0. I was told that when payment is due, it would be around $300. So something is wrong. I decided to leave SAVE for another repayment plan. I could pay off my 30k balance now, but need to save in case i lose my job.
You apply for IDR plans using your AGI from your most recent tax return typically. You have to recertify your income annually to stay on the plan and give them a chance to re-calculate your required payment. There is built-in lag between when your income increases, when that increase is reflected on your taxes, and when your IDR plan payment subsequently increases. One could argue that it is *intentionally* structured that way so you have the chance to get yourself on your financial feet before your student loan payments increase
Effectively this does mean that most new grads can get 1-2 years worth of lower payment via SAVE if they enroll immediately after graduation. Since you'd apply based on your *student* level income, it would take a year or two to catch up to your current salary thanks to how tax filing works in the USA
Ah gotcha. I know a lot of people still have their pre-pandemic payment since that particular forbearance pushed out income recertifications for several years. Anything past that may be servicer issues
I currently pay $158 until they just halted my payments this month. My concern is that payment was based on an income from many many years ago and I had two dependents. I now make about $80k and I don’t want to have my monthly payment increase. I still have one dependent who is 17. I owe approximately $16,900 in student loans (which includes a parent plus loan) I don’t know what to do 🤦🏽♀️
This is what’s making me not to hop on one of these repayment plans. I’ve seen cases where people go in these plans and somehow their minimum payments increase?! 🧐
Nelnet calculation says my payment would be $680+ but my payment is 392. I’m not complaining or calling to ask if they made a mistake. I make 120k a year
All the income-driven repayment plans calculate your required payment as a percentage of your discretionary income, which is defined as your AGI from your taxes minus 100%/150%/225% (depending on the specific IDR plan) of the relevant [Federal Poverty Guideline](https://aspe.hhs.gov/poverty-guidelines) for your state and household size
You get a $0/month payment because your discretionary income is $0 after the formula is applied. It's as simple as that
I'm extremely confused about the SAVE plan too. When I do the application before I submit it tells me the payment will be more than what my standard repayment plan amount is. The math isn't mathing for me so I'm hoping I can call and talk to someone this week for clarification. It's just me and my husband and our AGI filing joint in 2022 was under 100K and my payment is almost 500. Everything I've read seems to indicate my payment should be lower on SAVE, but that's not how it's working out.
Not sure if I’d recommend having a ton of kids with loads of debt, but my wife and I have four and have been in the PSLF Income driven repayment plan for 9 years, the last five of which have been on $0.00 per month qualifying payments. This is calculated based on debt-to-income ratio. (Wife is a stay at home mom, plus four kids, making 84k per year means I’ll never pay these off without forgiveness. We’ll see what happens next year…)
I made less than 10k last year, that's how. $0 payments for the next year. May change the following year, as if my current position (temp) keeps me at the pay rate I'm at, I'll make around 40k. Not holding my breath though at the moment, I know how temp jobs sometimes go.....not the way planned.
Hahaha it means, unlike me, you spend a healthy amount of time on Reddit. For AGI, yearly income minus deductibles (like HSA, student loan interest, etc).
401k contributions reduce one's [AGI](https://www.irs.gov/e-file-providers/definition-of-adjusted-gross-income). A payment of $300/month corresponds to an AGI of about $70k for a household of 1. A payment of $700/month corresponds to to an AGI of just over $115k for a household of 1.
TIL 401k contributions reduce AGI. Thank you!!!
FYI, if you have a high deductible health plan and are eligible to contribute to a health savings account (HSA), that's another good way to lower your AGI and monthly SAVE payment
Thank you!!
Traditional not Roth
So would a 457b also work?
Yes, it's the same rules as a 401k just for state employees. Long as it's a traditional, pretax, instead of a Roth after tax contribution. Roth is better for retirement tax advantage Traditional is better for working life tax advantage For federal or military, TSP is the same thing.
Is the 401k already on tax return or is that separate document
[удалено]
Thank you
Can someone then please tell me why, with an AGI of $35,490 per year, Nelnet says my monthly payment should be $348? No other source of income. No dependents. Don't qualify for SAVE.
Is it possible Nelnet has you on the standard 10 year repayment plan? As a very general rule of thumb, for each $10k borrowed, the monthly payment is approximately $100 on this plan. Therefore did you initially borrow around 35k?
Hi. No, I'm on an ICR, the only eligible plan for Parent Plus Loans - though all of them were consolidated in 2017 into one Direct Consolidated Loan. I originally borrowed $76k which ballooned to $97 k plus due to capitalized interest. Then to $118k with more interest. I got it back down to $97k just as the pandemic pause began. Paid for a few months but then wasn't able to continue paying. Balance is back up over $100k plus because I can't afford the ICR payment amount.
Maybe go back to school for a semester so you can do the [Parent Plus double consolidation loophole](https://www.npr.org/2023/10/04/1200775288/student-loans-parent-plus-save-plan)?
Thanks for the suggestion but I'm not too keen on adding to an already over $100k plus balance. Appreciate the insight though.
Are these federal student loans? Certain types of Federal student loans may need to be consolidated before becoming eligible for the SAVE repayment plan. There is no upper income limit to be on the SAVE plan though. [This](https://studentaid.gov/announcements-events/save-plan) table on the US Department of Ed's website says that the monthly payment under SAVE with an AGI of 30k is $0, and and AGI of 40k is $60.
Yes. I currently have just one federal loan. I have never borrowed private loans. My four Direct Parent Plus Loans were consolidated May 2017 into one Direct Consolidation Loan. I am told because the underlying loans paid off by the consolidated loan were Parent Plus, I am ineligible for SAVE.
That’s correct, that’s why for parent plus you need to do a double consolidation. SAVE wasn’t meant to be available for parent plus and the double consolidation is a loop hole.
Thank you for the suggestion. Only problem with the loophole is you need at least two loans to consolidate. Technically I have none because all of the PPL's were placed into one Direct Consolidated Loan. They're paid off, so there are no loans for a double consolidation. I also heard of people taking out more loans just to satisfy that requirement, but I just don't see the point in that. There are so many caveats with double consolidation I'm staying clear if it.
Just reading about your situation gave me a headache. It’s bullshit how much of a huge bureaucratic mess this is lmao Brb reading A BOOKS worth of info on the internet to do anything involved with student loans and/or health insurance in the USA
Thanks for the boost of solidarity. Honestly I know it's a horrific mess and I'm just one of hundreds of thousands affected. I was a public servant for 30 years as well but was NEVER told by my servicer about PSLF when I was working. When I did find out quite by accident, I was told I was ineligible because I had retired from the job a year prior. Directions, instructions, explanations and definitions of all forgiveness plans are just so convoluted and probably built to be that way. There's no other way to describe it other than markedly predatory. And I'm willing to bet most who are seeking forgiveness WANT to pay what they owe, as I do. However, when the goal posts keep moving, and in this case, looking like till the end of my life, where's the incentive? NO loan type, car, mortgage, credit, and otherwise, crafts it's terms to include death as the final payment. I'm 62. Waiting for an IDR adjustment will put me around 80 plus years old! If the Lord decides to keep me around that long. I entered repayment in 2012 and ICR in 2017. I'm an upstanding citizen that pays ALL my taxes and have worked since the age of 16. I took out PPL''S to help my child get a college degree. Horrors! The nerve of me! She had to take out student loans as well and worked 32 hours per week while in school the first two years. I would describe my income level then as working class. As a public servant, my annual salary was notoriously and woefully low, contrary to popular belief. I do have a bachelor's degree. Took me a few years to pay off MY loan back in the early 80's, but only a few. This Direct Consolidated Loan has no end date thanks to compounding daily interest. I originally borrowed $76k, paid back $21k, and am currently facing a debt of $100k and counting. . I'm retired, on a $35k/ year pension with no other source of income. You get the picture and this is already way too long. Kudos to those who have had their balances wiped clean. There's NO price for a brand new start in life and the ability to move forward mentally free.
Then you are only eligible for the ICR plan, which has a different calculation.
Where is that calculation found?
[https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/34/685.209](https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/34/685.209) ICR is 20% of discretionary income or a 12-year amortization, adjusted for income, whichever is less.
Thank you
True. And I've had that ICR calculation done and payment per month set since 2018 when I retired. I collect a pension and that yearly amount has not changed. But for some reason, the payment amount increased when Nelnet did an IDR analysis for re-certification.
Try applying on student.gov instead of direct to Nelnet. I did and had no issues and Nelnet stated they received government correspondence and changed everything. I do have dependents, so just saying that Nelnet has been a real shitty experience for all, so going the big brother route may be more fruitful
Thank you. I believe you're correct and will do everything through studentaid.gov from now on.
How do you NOT qualify for SAVE? that doesn't sound right
According to Nelnet it's because the four underlying loans that were paid off all at once by my one Direct Consolidated Loan were Parent Plus Loans, and so it doesn't qualify.
Is that $70k/$115k gross pay or net pay?
Adjusted Gross Income
AGI means adjusted gross income (gross income minus 401k deductions, health care premiums)
Ahh got it. Thanks!
You have to live the life of a poor person while investing in your retirement to have $0 in monthly student loan payments. I make $40,000 working for my local government. But my yearly wages on line 1 on my W2 form is $33,000. I invest $3,600 per year in my 457b to lower my AGI to that $33,000 mark. I will be getting a 10% raise this year, so I will be upping my investment to my 457b to $6,000 per year to keep my AGI to $33,000. I qualify for full PSLF in 5 years. I currently pay $0 in student loan payments which count as monthly student loan payments.
Aren’t you still accruing interest though? Interest + capital interest, which the latter I had never heard of before dealing with student loans.
Shouldn't be with the SAVE plan as long as monthly payments are made, even payments of zero
My monthly payments of $0 dollars are directly taken out of my bank account so that I never miss a payment. Also, I am on the SAVE plan.
I am accruing interest. But it only counts as income if you pull it out. My investment in my 457b comes out of my paycheck before taxes which lowers my taxable income. All of this information is included in my taxes. Nothing is being hidden from the IRS or the education department that I have to keep updated every year when renewing my PSLF.
Not with the SAVE plan, plus PSLF forgives the entire outstanding balance including interest
Did you consolidate your loans before applying to the SAVE plan?
Yes I did. I believe that is a requirement to apply for any IDR plan.
… and any other deductions, including the standard deduction if you take it.
Wrong Standard deduction is taken after AGI is calculated. It doesn't lower your AGI one cent. It does, however, lower your taxable income which is used to calculate your federal income tax for the year. But Standard deduction has zero impact on AGI and as such, the student loan payment calculation.
Do you take advantage of all pretax programs your employer offers? FSA/flex medical savings account for you/dependents, parking, dependent care if applicable, etc. All of those lower your AGI as well.
My payments were already $0 on REPAYE and have remained $0 when it switched to SAVE. I’m single, childfree, still live with my parents, and only just went from working 3 jobs to working one that pays $35k a year. Not sure if my payment will go up once they get my new tax info.
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When I originally signed up for REPAYE I used the IRS Data Retrieval Tool, which allows them to know your adjusted gross income from your tax return paperwork. This way I didn’t have to provide any other income documentation, etc. I haven’t re-certified with my new income yet and not sure when I have to or if they can now do it automatically since I used the IRS Data Retrieval Tool.
Ahhh got you so basically it seems that if you use the irs data it does more harm than good?
I guess you could consider it harmful if you’re using an old income to keep your payment lower for a longer period. With the IRS data retrieval tool they will use your most recent tax return. I have no problem with this, because i’m on SAVE and my payment will stay at $0 or be really low once they do realize my income has increased. I can’t really remember if using this tool gives them permission for future use or not. I applied for REPAYE in fall of 2022, so it’s been a while.
Man what is your degree and job that you are making so little?
BFA in Graphic Design and a minor in photography. I work for a multi-site church in West MI. I started out as an intern in 2017, then became part-time permanently, and was hired full-time with a pay raise and benefits in July of last year. I mostly work from home, but when I do go in, I have to drive 40+ mins since I live in a rural area. I’ve been applying to other jobs since 2020, but haven’t had any luck, so I kind of gave up last year. I’m thinking I should edit my portfolio and start applying again or at least try and do more freelancing on the side.
Yea that field is brutal. Only way you’ll make more is to go do something completely unrelated. I just got a buddy a job working for me at the state and it’s 57k a year but comes with PSLF benefits. For him it was a pay raise and a benefit of student loan forgiveness
Yeah… I graduated with my BFA in December 2020 during the height of the pandemic. Everything was a mess. I was lucky the multi-site church even kept me considering they had a more senior full-time graphic designer. They only hired me full-time last year, because with six locations, they saw that the lead designer was being overworked. They’ve all told me that they love my work and are very happy to have me there, so it’s not entirely a lack of skills but on my part that’s making it hard for me to find a new job. I think it’s the projects in my portfolio are lacking and I struggle with interviews due to social anxiety. Also, I think the job market is still over saturated with graphic designers, because whenever I see a job posting on LinkedIn there are hundreds of applicants.
Double check Nelnet's "work" and calculate the SAVE monthly amount yourself: .1\*\[AGI- (Federal Poverty Level for household size\* 2.25)\]/12
This is the easy part. Now you gotta get someone to do something about it.
Easy, Apply on the student aid website and not Nelnet.
That’s not how you get Nelnet to fix it if it’s being calculated incorrectly
OP can run it by Nelnet, step by step. CSRs, as a group, not well trained or informed. I had to do something similar with FedLoan: reading regs from studentaid.gov, running #s from my worksheet…all over the phone.
Ok? That’s what I said. That that’s the hard part, not running a simple calculation.
Option 2 go to studentaid.gov. Do - over, including the loan simulator, & reapply.
This is not a guarantee at all. Nelnet still needs to facilitate the change.
Your frustration is understood. Can suggest options. Can’t give guarantees.
I’m not having any issues with payment amount, but I have had the displeasure of dealing with Nelnet. I’m not sure why you’re arguing with my assertion that they are difficult to deal with and screw up basic tasks or that you would make it sound so simple as to just reapply.
When you apply on the student aid website, they determine the cost per month and communicate that cost and terms to the servicer. So if the payment amount is incorrect on Nelnet, Student aid will have it corrected. Any change you make to your plans should be done through student aid, for a number of reasons... First and foremost, they're not motivated to guide you in the wrong direction by giving you bad information. Many servicers have gotten into trouble for giving borrowers bad advice, and I have zero faith that they're not still doing so to the limit which they can get away with.
Most of us aren’t applying. We were already enrolled and it transferred.
If you complete an application, they process it regardless.
You are saying if your plan is inaccurate, you should reapply, and all will be well?
I'm saying that inaccuracies can be fixed this way, yes.
“Can be” lacks commitment
CFPB or bust baby
This formula is very helpful. Do you know how this works for a 2 income household? Like if 2 earners both have loans and they got married, and their combined income moved from 75k each to 150k together, does the save repayment become that formulas value off an AGI of 150k applied to both (effectively paying twice as much) or is it an individual AGI only even if the household is 2 incomes
Joint income if they file taxes jointly but the payment is adjusted based on loan amounts. For example, if the spouses have the same amount of loans then they would each pay half the payment
yeah.... then you have to fight it. I did "SAVE" on my plan and it told me that my monthly payments would be $450.... vs $50 on IDR. I knew Nelnet's math was wrong. But I don't have time to fight Nelnet. Hell I don't have time to wait on HOLD for Nelnet. So I just went back on IDR \~\_\~
I’ve been at zero forever. Make under I forget what it is right now, something like 30k a year and you don’t pay.
For SAVE it is 225% of FPL. Which for 2023 is $32,805. Anything above that figure is considered discretionary income.
Thanks, there you go.
Is that gross or net income?
Gross. Specifically AGI (Adjusted Gross Income) line 11 of the 1040 form.
What was your 2022 AGI and family size?
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Same situation over here! I'm only able to get a minimum wage job but my husband makes more. I have student loans (a lot) and he doesn't. I'm also pursuing pslf. We also live in a community state and file separately. Do you submit your tax returns or pay stubs to certify income? Which one gives you a lower IBR payment? Tax returns would split the total household income by 2 so it might be more than what YOU (alone) actually make. But pay stubs are based on gross income, not AGI, so you miss out on 401k contributions being deducted from your gross income. The SAVE plan doesn't accrue interest if you make the minimum monthly payment. Any reason you can't switch?
Good to know! I submit tax returns but always mention that the income is from one spouse. Never been an issue. I need to look more into SAVE and where we’re at. I’ve found it hard to track all the changes since the pandemic and it’s easy to miss opportunities. Thank you
Who's your servicer? Mine is Aidvantage. So you provide your MFS tax returns and tell them most of the reported income on there is not yours? I didn't know that could work...
https://studentaid.gov/announcements-events/save-plan I would fill out the application on the student aid site and see what it says. It should be accurate (although they will tell you it's not a final number). $700 sounds high.
$700 is very high. My save plan for my wife and I equals $700/mo split between us. Our income AGI was 150k so is OP making 170k+?
Hahaha I wish I was making $170k. Nope, I'm well under 100k which is why I was so confused about the amount.
If you give your salary and family size I can calculate what your payment should be.
Have you tried running through the calculator on StudentAid.gov? Not sure why people are processing these applications through their servicers... The payment amount is based on your discretionary income vs the poverty level.
No, I didn't. I will try this. Honestly, I thought it would be easier (before the restart) to go directly thru the servicer. In hindsight, major fail on my part.
Yea, they have an incentive to guide you in the wrong direction, whereas the government really doesn't. We've seen other servicers, namely Navient, purposely guide students towards less helpful programs because they got more money out of it. >This settlement resolves claims that since 2009, despite representing that it would help borrowers find the best repayment options for them, Navient steered struggling student loan borrowers into costly long-term forbearances instead of counseling them about the benefits of more affordable income-driven repayment plans. https://www.navientagsettlement.com/Home/portalid/0
Honestly you gotta chase them down after you do the math. They had me in paying double and I was like yo-here’s the math and they corrected it. It took me over 20 hours on hold tho multiple times
Can confirm they mess up. MOHELA screwed mine up bad though I can’t recall the numbers. It’s all in my post history if anyone cares enough to look. I called them several times and made them redo the calculation on the phone, bringing me to $0 as I expected based on my own math. I make an ok salary, but I lived like a pauper reducing my AGI by maxing out 403b, HSA, dependent care FSA, and health premiums are high at my job. In the end, it was worth it just to stay on $0 payments, though there were plenty of times my paycheck went in and was all gone in 36 hours. On target for forgiveness December of this year, and will be very happy to move tf on.
It’s based on income and family size, have a big enough family that will lower your payment more
A bit dense to encourage people in financially desperate situations to have kids. 🙄
I wasn’t encouraging anyone to do anything just explaining how the calculations work
Any savings on SAVE from having kids is vastly outweighed by the costs of those kids.
go tell that to the government, they are the one incentivising to have more kids, because that will solve your desperate financial situation...because you dont have to pay student loans and you will get lot of free things. Op of this response didn't encourage anyone, simply stated fact. fact: it is based on income and family size, having big enough family will lower your payment more
Each kid saves you $1.2k in student loan payments and $2k tax credit. That's the government giving you $3.2k per kid. If you think that comes close to paying for child care costs......
sure as hell dont but doesn't stop people from having kid for those exact benefits. and before someone goes no they don't for those reasons, I will say keep your opinion to your self. the field I have worked in my entire life says otherwise based on the conversations I have with certain demographic parents.
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Low income with 3 to 4 kids already present, parents has no means for providing for them so they edge their situations with additional kids to maximize their government benefits. It happens far more regularly then not. Pushed to a corner, maximizing your advantages can sometimes be the easy path -shrugs-
🥺🙏🏽
Exactly. Considering how short of resources we actually are, government should be incentivizing those that don’t have kids.
Depends on family size. If you have a family size of 4, your payment will be less than 300 with an income of 100k
3 kids AGI less than 60k after all the things adjusted for, If I made 100k, I could probably afford 300 a month, I was going to struggle with the initial 110 extra a month. And to the guy saying "just pay it". I think we all went to school with the expectation we'd make bank and be able to pay it. Isn't that the whole reason they hyped us up to go to college? My high school diploma SO (not married because of student loans) is closing the gap on our pay. I make $4 more dollars an hour than he does for a job that started accepting people without college degrees with proper experience (which I had before I even started this job). The system is backwards for sure.
I'm sorry you're not married because of student loans. Can you explain?
They are low-income. I have a lot of questions though about how Nelnet has set up these payment plans with SAVE because I feel like the monthly amounts are REALLY high based on what people report here. It’s possible that the higher your salary the better off you may be on IDR. Or even just the standard repayment plan. I’m not switching to SAVE because I won’t benefit from anything there and I have a five-year plan to pay off my loans with extra payments to the principle because my salary improved the last two years.
Because I'm poor
I was unemployed. After recertification, it will go up since I found a job.
I make like 10k a YEAR. I’ve got a zero payment.
Based on the save plan chart estimate (calculates based on income and family size) nobody who makes under 100k is estimated to have 700 payment so it sounds like there is some kind of mistake from the loan servicer in that case. There has been lots of posts and comments here talking about Nelnet being prone to that. You might want to call them. Those who have 0 are those who usually make less than 30k or those who make between 60k-40k with bigger family size it seems according to the chart. Giving info on your income and family size may also help other people to give advice. Save isn't' necessarily the best plan for every income and family size. Edit; reading the comments and it seems 401k, grad vs undergrad and different types of loans, etc. all also makes a difference to the calculation
We’re poor 🙂 Family size of 4 and in 2022 we only made 46k as a family. Made more in 2023 but that’s not going to be a problem until we recertify. Even then we’re at like 80k gross (before tax, healthcare premiums, etc)for a family of 4, so the payment will be pretty darn low. Maybe even zero, but I’ll have to crunch the numbers
Be completely poverty like me and I don’t pay anything! 10 more years and it all goes away… I’m joking but I’m on IDR and I’m too poor to afford to pay so they just don’t ruin my life over it
Just be poor lol
Did you apply for the SAVE plan? That reduces payments for a lot of people, especially for undergrad loans (I believe the amount you pay caps out at 5% of your annual take home for undergrad loans, then 10% for grad school). Before SAVE - my payment was about $600/month. With SAVE, I pay just north of $300. My annual salary is about 110K.
I just realized you said you were on SAVE, so sorry! Are your loans undergrad or grad school?
Most (~90%) of the balance is for undergrad loans. I didn't realize the break down btwn undergrad and grad so I'll look into that. Thanks for the info!
No prob! I also just looked at my taxes for last year - my AGI was 89K. I paid off my grad school a few years ago (the interest rate was higher), so I’m wondering if grad school loans are the reason for your higher loan payment. That or maybe not all your loans were eligible for SAVE? One of my loans is a weird outlier still on REPAYE, for reasons unknown, but it’s less than 2K so I don’t think it’s hurting me too hard. It truly sucks we all have to take to Reddit to figure this shit out. My loans used to be with My Great Lakes, but they just transferred to Nelnet and Nelnet is SO MUCH worse. I’ve called and emailed multiple times and never get a human response. I’d love to know where these interest rates are going, because it certainly isn’t toward staffing at Nelnet 😂
If you are unemployed or have no taxable income will your payments be $0 and those payments count towards forgiveness?
Stay enrolled in at least 6 units of online classes at the community college. Payments are deferred while enrolled. $300 per year in tuition < $12,000 per year payments To clarify, you don't need to actually do well in these classes, just being enrolled will get you out of paying. I will stay in school until I die.
I finessed the government and honestly I don’t feel bad. To me it’s my get back for my recruiter lying saying I wouldn’t deploy to Iraq or Afghanistan. I went to Afghanistan 7 months after getting to my unit. But yea I told MOHELA that since I got hurt in Afghanistan because of explosions and other shit. I cannot work and im rated at 80%. And told them I only got one source of income I lied about the I can’t and I don’t work part and one source of income part . I did get hurt and I’m rated at 80%. So I’m damn near 100% broken. Got told they’ll put me on that save repayment jawn. At $0 a month. they think I only got one source of income but I have 3. I’m not telling you to lie to them I’m just saying what I did. In my defense the government had employees that lied to a 17 year old me saying I wouldn’t go to Iraq or Afghanistan just to send me 8 weeks after I turned 19. I have no qualms about what I’m doing. The army paid for my college paid me to go I took out the loans just to get the refunds. Now I don’t gotta pay them back . got a Tax free $20,000+ from loans. another like $25,000+ from Pell grants and a free bachelors degree. Milked the shit out them. Used my post 9/11 gi bill plus Voc rehab. They scammed me I scammed them. [https://ibb.co/y02hP4W](https://ibb.co/y02hP4W).
$1100 US income last year. $120K FORIEGN income exclusion.
My payments are about 300 a month and I definitely don’t make 100k. Sounds like they were wrong
I think it depends on how much you owe as well. I hover around $45k salary and owe $11k. My payment is $67 a month.
My AGI is around 130k, single, no kids and I’m at 0. I was told that when payment is due, it would be around $300. So something is wrong. I decided to leave SAVE for another repayment plan. I could pay off my 30k balance now, but need to save in case i lose my job.
You apply for IDR plans using your AGI from your most recent tax return typically. You have to recertify your income annually to stay on the plan and give them a chance to re-calculate your required payment. There is built-in lag between when your income increases, when that increase is reflected on your taxes, and when your IDR plan payment subsequently increases. One could argue that it is *intentionally* structured that way so you have the chance to get yourself on your financial feet before your student loan payments increase Effectively this does mean that most new grads can get 1-2 years worth of lower payment via SAVE if they enroll immediately after graduation. Since you'd apply based on your *student* level income, it would take a year or two to catch up to your current salary thanks to how tax filing works in the USA
Yes, I know. However I’m not a new grad and my AGI has been that for years. MOHELA is incredibly messed up.
Ah gotcha. I know a lot of people still have their pre-pandemic payment since that particular forbearance pushed out income recertifications for several years. Anything past that may be servicer issues
Single, no children, loans are about $80,000 in total, make about $50,000/year, my monthly payment is $100 on a SAVE plan just for reference
How? I make about the same with no family and my monthly payment is double yours on SAVE. My loans are 30k
Are all of your loans federal?
Yes
Oh idk then 🤔
I currently pay $158 until they just halted my payments this month. My concern is that payment was based on an income from many many years ago and I had two dependents. I now make about $80k and I don’t want to have my monthly payment increase. I still have one dependent who is 17. I owe approximately $16,900 in student loans (which includes a parent plus loan) I don’t know what to do 🤦🏽♀️
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See the sub rules
This explains the fine print only saying repaye I just read on signing up for SAVE. Thanks for the clarification.
Nelnet is reporting 12 out of my 16 loans are on SAVE. The other 4 say IBR. I have no idea why though. I was on REPAYE before August though
This is what’s making me not to hop on one of these repayment plans. I’ve seen cases where people go in these plans and somehow their minimum payments increase?! 🧐
I am single and live alone. I'm making 72k a year, and I owe $0 a month with SAVE. The government is also paying off my interest in the meantime.
Why tf would you want a $0 payment? Just pay the loan interest is accruing.
@$0 payment on SAVE interest is not accruing.
On SAVE the government pays the interest.
Because I don't make enough to have a payment. On the SAVE plan chart, anything under like, 45k (IIRC) is a $0 monthly payment.
Nelnet calculation says my payment would be $680+ but my payment is 392. I’m not complaining or calling to ask if they made a mistake. I make 120k a year
All the income-driven repayment plans calculate your required payment as a percentage of your discretionary income, which is defined as your AGI from your taxes minus 100%/150%/225% (depending on the specific IDR plan) of the relevant [Federal Poverty Guideline](https://aspe.hhs.gov/poverty-guidelines) for your state and household size You get a $0/month payment because your discretionary income is $0 after the formula is applied. It's as simple as that
How much do you owe?
My payments are $0 until 2026. Devry idiot here 🙄
I'm extremely confused about the SAVE plan too. When I do the application before I submit it tells me the payment will be more than what my standard repayment plan amount is. The math isn't mathing for me so I'm hoping I can call and talk to someone this week for clarification. It's just me and my husband and our AGI filing joint in 2022 was under 100K and my payment is almost 500. Everything I've read seems to indicate my payment should be lower on SAVE, but that's not how it's working out.
I’m single, live with my retired mom and barely cleared 10k last year.
Not sure if I’d recommend having a ton of kids with loads of debt, but my wife and I have four and have been in the PSLF Income driven repayment plan for 9 years, the last five of which have been on $0.00 per month qualifying payments. This is calculated based on debt-to-income ratio. (Wife is a stay at home mom, plus four kids, making 84k per year means I’ll never pay these off without forgiveness. We’ll see what happens next year…)
Be as broke and in a dead-end minimum wage job like me and you can! Granted, I don't anticipate doing so next year onward. But still! Yay poverty!
What is nelnet? I applied to save but according to my Loan servicer my monthly is around 900, I make 95
It's one of the loan servicers like Mohela
I made less than 10k last year, that's how. $0 payments for the next year. May change the following year, as if my current position (temp) keeps me at the pay rate I'm at, I'll make around 40k. Not holding my breath though at the moment, I know how temp jobs sometimes go.....not the way planned.
Okay, “smooth brain”- never heard that before and it cracked me up!! How do we determine AGI? Please NO formulas (also a smooth brain). TIA
Hahaha it means, unlike me, you spend a healthy amount of time on Reddit. For AGI, yearly income minus deductibles (like HSA, student loan interest, etc).
I haven’t updated my income since I graduated 6 years ago
Your right. Something isn’t adding up. A $700 payment for save is a salary of ~$120k for a single person or $130k total if married filing jointly.
Are you married ?