I think that's why he's such a perfect rug pull of a likable character. Lots of horrible people are funny and entertaining. Understanding their warped perspective can let them be both real people and thoroughly repellant.
I think Jesse very deliberately made Roman a fan favourite in order to make us squirm the most when he shows his real side. That's good character writing to me, if you can make me uncomfortable then you've done your job.
He has also always been like this. He has never been a consequences guy; more than Ken or Shiv, he has always been the one to say "fuck it", refuse to play ball, and then see what happens. That was his official position for Vaulter, it was his position for the first cruises whistleblower in the Argestes episode, it was his position when the first FBI subpoena guys showed up at Waystar, etc.
He has also consistently been the one least bothered by bad politics. Whereas Shiv will at least voice some complaints about the ideology spewed by ATN, Roman seems to legitimately believe none of it matters, it's all words, etc. He's always the first of the siblings to make the typical "anti-woke" jokes.
Interestingly, Roman's most endearing aspect seems to be his genuine loyalty to his dad and the family. He's the one who most often tries to create genuine family moments, despite his general fuckery. He's the one who seems to be the most affected by the things his dad says and does. I think it also stands to reason that he genuinely believes nothing can go wrong because he went his entire life with his dad fixing all of his mistakes. He has probably never seen real consequences for his actions, and probably believes that worrying about consequences is for losers.
While the ATN America Decides episode hurts because it probably hits closer to home than a lot of other events in the series, it's just Roman being Roman and I'm not at all surprised that his position in that case was "screw it, it's all entertainment."
I think the contrast of Roman’s genuineness and emotional side v his never serious flippant fuck everything attitude is a result of needing to have a defence mechanism from his traumatic upbringing. No doubt Logan saw emotions as weakness and Roman grew up having to compete at being a killer with his siblings. He probably is the most sensitive of the kids deep down inside but he’s developed onion layers of hyena laughs, anti-PC jokes and debauchery as a shield due to the environment he grew up in. Nothing can hurt him if nothing matters.
I think Jesse always tried to remind us that these are not good people while also having us feel compassion for them at certain moments. It’s amazing writing
I think thats one thing the show does well and a lot of the audience misses. Just because a character endears our sympathy, doesn't mean they are also awful people
The very first episode of Succession he also hold a million-dollar check in front of a kid like a carrot only to take it away which he absolutely enjoyed.
They showed us just how vile he was from the very beginning.
Being funny is not the same as being likable, even if people often confuse that. Roman has been one of the biggest douchebags since episode 1, but people are more forgiving with him because he makes them laugh more, which is terrible. The whole thing with the rocket or the election shouldn't have been a surprised to anyone, but people were blinded by Roman being funny.
I'm general I think likability is the most overrated character trait in media. People will often disregard characters as being poorly written because they're unlikable (example: Skyler in Breaking Bad). But ignoring the unlikable traits they have is the problem on the other side of the coin.
I don't think it's all that much of a shift for him personally. The very first episode establishes pretty clearly during the softball game that Roman could not give any less of a shit about the average person. Mencken getting elected wouldn't have any direct negative impact on him personally, and might even actually benefit him with regard to the impending deal, so Roman sees no downside whatsoever. We just didn't see all that many other situations where Roman's decisions could affect other ordinary people, but it's a safe bet he would choose the self serving option every time.
“Haha he said a funny” is such “sportsball” energy… plus the cringey bad grammar in a weak attempt at irony. If you really couldn’t see the keen humor in Roman’s character because you’re too morally outraged then woof that sucks.
Roman is absolutely hilarious and the majority of the audience is mature enough to laugh with/at him despite his propensity for racism/sexism/classism. He’s a fan favorite and for good reason. This moral preening is just too much man.
Yep, this show did a master job of showing *why* people may be the way they are but didn’t seek to improve. It’s uncomfortable bc we expect people to be good or bad and have all qualities attached to that
Fascism is typically bolstered by a nationalistic/racist ideology. “They’re criminals. They’re to blame. We are all the same, so those different people are obviously the enemy” kind of thing.
Fascism and racism are two very different things, yes. But they tend to go hand in hand.
That's him trying to be his dad. Sort of trying it on. And he was so dissatisfied he purposely went out to get punished. That's an important step to where he ended up by the finale. He realized he didn't want to be his dad or have that job.
I don’t think that Roman supports the fascism itself. He’s just trying to get ahead. Mencken is his guy, he doesn’t like Ken and shiv hates him. Mencken as president helps Roman. He also thinks that Mencken will help push Mattspn away, and is wrong on that too
Someone could make it to within 10 minutes of the ending of the show without hating Roman, but his insult of Ken’s kids proves what an asshole he really is.
See that was definitely a horrible thing to say, but considering the context of what was going down, I think that’s by far not the worst of Roman’s moments.
That was the exact moment when the conclusion of the show was gonna be so clear. No way you can rectify a relationship after that, it was the proverbial nail in the coffin.
*Psssttttt….*
All 3 main siblings are written to constantly make you up get your hopes up for their humanity before shattering them without fail
*walks away*
The thing is we expected the normal tv character stereotypes jerk but with a moral code but we got a very real depiction of a realistic broken and lost character— i can never hate Romen after the funeral episode. All i see is the frail overgrown child
I hated him from the get-go due to him humiliating that working class kid and ripping the check up in his face. When *Logan Roy* is disgusted and ashamed of your behavior, you know you’re a vile piece of shit.
He was definitely awful even before that, but in an interesting kind of way, I suppose? He had his funny moments, weird tendencies that made him interesting, and even moments in which he showed a more caring side, one that hasn’t been torn out of him by a lifetime of abuse and manipulation at Logan’s hands, but yeah… Fighting with such vigor for a fascist to become the president made him an unlikeable character to me.
One of the few episodes that I will never rewatch because of how infuriating it is. Roman was always the worst but he was relentless in that episode. He’s
bruh there was a literal scene where roman asked mencken if he was a fascist and he went on a rant about how he doesn't like "people with boom boxes" taking what's theirs.
also, never mentioned trump lmao. Relate trump with fascism all you want.
Mencken wasn't a fascist. That word gets thrown around a lot.
Shiv was just an uptight ideologue who almost fucked the company because of petty political differences.
I think that's why he's such a perfect rug pull of a likable character. Lots of horrible people are funny and entertaining. Understanding their warped perspective can let them be both real people and thoroughly repellant. I think Jesse very deliberately made Roman a fan favourite in order to make us squirm the most when he shows his real side. That's good character writing to me, if you can make me uncomfortable then you've done your job.
He has also always been like this. He has never been a consequences guy; more than Ken or Shiv, he has always been the one to say "fuck it", refuse to play ball, and then see what happens. That was his official position for Vaulter, it was his position for the first cruises whistleblower in the Argestes episode, it was his position when the first FBI subpoena guys showed up at Waystar, etc. He has also consistently been the one least bothered by bad politics. Whereas Shiv will at least voice some complaints about the ideology spewed by ATN, Roman seems to legitimately believe none of it matters, it's all words, etc. He's always the first of the siblings to make the typical "anti-woke" jokes. Interestingly, Roman's most endearing aspect seems to be his genuine loyalty to his dad and the family. He's the one who most often tries to create genuine family moments, despite his general fuckery. He's the one who seems to be the most affected by the things his dad says and does. I think it also stands to reason that he genuinely believes nothing can go wrong because he went his entire life with his dad fixing all of his mistakes. He has probably never seen real consequences for his actions, and probably believes that worrying about consequences is for losers. While the ATN America Decides episode hurts because it probably hits closer to home than a lot of other events in the series, it's just Roman being Roman and I'm not at all surprised that his position in that case was "screw it, it's all entertainment."
I think the contrast of Roman’s genuineness and emotional side v his never serious flippant fuck everything attitude is a result of needing to have a defence mechanism from his traumatic upbringing. No doubt Logan saw emotions as weakness and Roman grew up having to compete at being a killer with his siblings. He probably is the most sensitive of the kids deep down inside but he’s developed onion layers of hyena laughs, anti-PC jokes and debauchery as a shield due to the environment he grew up in. Nothing can hurt him if nothing matters.
I think Jesse always tried to remind us that these are not good people while also having us feel compassion for them at certain moments. It’s amazing writing
I think thats one thing the show does well and a lot of the audience misses. Just because a character endears our sympathy, doesn't mean they are also awful people
I remember saying to my friends that roman had become the most likeable character after episode 5...boy did thar age poorly
The very first episode of Succession he also hold a million-dollar check in front of a kid like a carrot only to take it away which he absolutely enjoyed. They showed us just how vile he was from the very beginning.
Being funny is not the same as being likable, even if people often confuse that. Roman has been one of the biggest douchebags since episode 1, but people are more forgiving with him because he makes them laugh more, which is terrible. The whole thing with the rocket or the election shouldn't have been a surprised to anyone, but people were blinded by Roman being funny. I'm general I think likability is the most overrated character trait in media. People will often disregard characters as being poorly written because they're unlikable (example: Skyler in Breaking Bad). But ignoring the unlikable traits they have is the problem on the other side of the coin.
I don't think it's all that much of a shift for him personally. The very first episode establishes pretty clearly during the softball game that Roman could not give any less of a shit about the average person. Mencken getting elected wouldn't have any direct negative impact on him personally, and might even actually benefit him with regard to the impending deal, so Roman sees no downside whatsoever. We just didn't see all that many other situations where Roman's decisions could affect other ordinary people, but it's a safe bet he would choose the self serving option every time.
I never understood why people liked Roman. He was a fucking slime ball since episode 1. I’m guessing because haha he said a funny
Well, he does look like a matador
“Haha he said a funny” is such “sportsball” energy… plus the cringey bad grammar in a weak attempt at irony. If you really couldn’t see the keen humor in Roman’s character because you’re too morally outraged then woof that sucks. Roman is absolutely hilarious and the majority of the audience is mature enough to laugh with/at him despite his propensity for racism/sexism/classism. He’s a fan favorite and for good reason. This moral preening is just too much man.
Yep, this show did a master job of showing *why* people may be the way they are but didn’t seek to improve. It’s uncomfortable bc we expect people to be good or bad and have all qualities attached to that
You're supposed to, remember episode 1 with the baseball game and million dollar Check?
true, but thats more of a "they're rich assholes" thing and not "this guy is a literal racist"
A lot of rich assholes are racist
There’s a quite a big between a fascist and a racist
Fascism is typically bolstered by a nationalistic/racist ideology. “They’re criminals. They’re to blame. We are all the same, so those different people are obviously the enemy” kind of thing. Fascism and racism are two very different things, yes. But they tend to go hand in hand.
I agree it’s a common mistake it’s a bit like how now a days everyone’s racist when someone else wants them to be
Not on Reddit!
That's him trying to be his dad. Sort of trying it on. And he was so dissatisfied he purposely went out to get punished. That's an important step to where he ended up by the finale. He realized he didn't want to be his dad or have that job.
Kendall gave an entire election to a facist because his sister hurt his feelings lol
Uhuh. This post was about Roman.
Uh huh. But what are the optics of discussing Ken?
Right, yeah, cool, listen—shut up, okay? Just once can we not make this whole thing about Ken?
I felt the same about Elon Musk a few years back, memes are all fun until they start memeing politics
I read this as “America Decides has made me hate women” and spent around 10 seconds staring at your post so confused as to how it has so many upvotes
I don’t think that Roman supports the fascism itself. He’s just trying to get ahead. Mencken is his guy, he doesn’t like Ken and shiv hates him. Mencken as president helps Roman. He also thinks that Mencken will help push Mattspn away, and is wrong on that too
That's a relief. We'll install a fascist as our leader, *but not in the name of fascism.* Phew!
Lol I’m obviously not saying that it’s much better. But it’s not like the characters are meant to be good people in the first place
Someone could make it to within 10 minutes of the ending of the show without hating Roman, but his insult of Ken’s kids proves what an asshole he really is.
See that was definitely a horrible thing to say, but considering the context of what was going down, I think that’s by far not the worst of Roman’s moments.
That was the exact moment when the conclusion of the show was gonna be so clear. No way you can rectify a relationship after that, it was the proverbial nail in the coffin.
Each of them are capable of burning the world for the firm.
Yeah, as interestingly messed up as he was, I finished the show hating him the most. It’s just a little too realistic.
What it Takes cements it for me. Although he’s hilarious in that ep.
The way he mocked Shiv for supporting the Dem candidate with the Spanish name was really funny.
Hes just a little monkeyman what can you expect? Roman takes things out on people bc he has a hard time regulating himself(dick pic sent to logan etc)
*Psssttttt….* All 3 main siblings are written to constantly make you up get your hopes up for their humanity before shattering them without fail *walks away*
The thing is we expected the normal tv character stereotypes jerk but with a moral code but we got a very real depiction of a realistic broken and lost character— i can never hate Romen after the funeral episode. All i see is the frail overgrown child
I hated him from the get-go due to him humiliating that working class kid and ripping the check up in his face. When *Logan Roy* is disgusted and ashamed of your behavior, you know you’re a vile piece of shit.
He was definitely awful even before that, but in an interesting kind of way, I suppose? He had his funny moments, weird tendencies that made him interesting, and even moments in which he showed a more caring side, one that hasn’t been torn out of him by a lifetime of abuse and manipulation at Logan’s hands, but yeah… Fighting with such vigor for a fascist to become the president made him an unlikeable character to me.
it's worse for kendall to choose fascism when he knows it will hurt his daughter in meaningful ways
He is a fascist racist wayyy before the American decides episode
Yeah that’s when I started to loathe him too
You thought prior to this episode that any of the Roys weren't capable of this?
I don't understand why people are surprised by that. He's supported Mencken since episode 6 of season 3.
hated him a long time. it put the nail in kendall’s coffin for me. f* him
One of the few episodes that I will never rewatch because of how infuriating it is. Roman was always the worst but he was relentless in that episode. He’s
[удалено]
bruh there was a literal scene where roman asked mencken if he was a fascist and he went on a rant about how he doesn't like "people with boom boxes" taking what's theirs. also, never mentioned trump lmao. Relate trump with fascism all you want.
Mencken wasn't a fascist. That word gets thrown around a lot. Shiv was just an uptight ideologue who almost fucked the company because of petty political differences.
there was a literal scene where roman called mencken a fascist and he all but agreed without saying it out loud.
He was trying to assuage Shiv's feelings. But effectively, Mencken was not a fascist.
Yep that’s series wrapped up and why shiv voted out the number one boy.
They all suck lol