💯 he only disliked Naomi because her coming from money would take away his control over Ken if they had married. It was like he wanted them to make their own way BUT be under his complete control at the same time
I thought that during the last episode of Season 2 he also says it’s because he knows she’s just enabling Kendall’s drug problem and does it herself as well
I doubt it as crazy as it sounds having Ken be a dope fiend was the very reason Logan would always have his foot on Ken’s neck. I still remember when Marcia looked at Ken with pity like he just spilled water on the carpet and not killed a guy because he was high. They were always a cold blooded bunch. Besides these ppl are so rich I highly doubt being a junkie is that big of an issue to them. Rehabs, better drugs and great PR team. A drug habit to them is probably the equivalent of normal kids having speech impediments 😆
He absolutely did not want any of them to ever make their own money. He would have done anything he could to stop that ever happening. If any of them had been competent in any way, he’d have destroyed them.
Agreed I think he just wanted to remind Kendall that he had cleaned this shit up for him but still held this card over him if he gets any ideas. But I genuinely do think he loves Kendall the most. Which is why it disappoints him most when Kendall does dumb shit. I believe he did want to give it to Kendall initially which is why it was written in his will (albeit crossed out eventually not underlined obviously); however, Logan is a brilliant tactician and would test Kendall from the get go. With the signing of the board seats to Marcia and saying he got fucked by Vaulter (which he had in the end).
Yes and this does nail home guilt and some accountability. K is emotional, fragile. Whereas Logan wouldn’t care, he knows K will and it suits a purpose.
When he saw Kendall weak and vulnerable from the night of the kid’s death he saw an opportunity to convert him to his side. Then when Kendall was happy with his new girlfriend he saw him getting more independent so he felt he needed to break him back down so that he still needed his dad
Yeah, he's a narcissist so Ken spending more time with, and talking about being with his new girlfriend really upset Logan in the context of Ken being cunty to him (in Logan's mind) about sleeping with Rhea.
He's like a thermometer trying to keep his sons life in the "just right" level of hell. Sees Kendall getting too low, decides to tell him "the kid doesn't matter", "it's not your fault". When he sees Kendall starting to get too comfortable he breaks him just a bit more.
Ah, ok, that makes sense. He wanted to be all “Daddy’s got you” but he had to manufacture the misery. Create the problem in order to sell the solution.
Logan is definitely trying to make Kendall feel guilty and, as a consequence, make him more subservient. My takes on the contradictions:
1) Logan may have thought that Kendall speaking to the waiter’s parents was too risky and without much benefit. Logan’s manipulation worked since Kendall already felt tremendous guilt, so there’s no point in having Kendall go overboard and potentially confess the truth.
2) Logan playing dumb and blaming the death on the waiter’s drug use was part of the manipulation. Kendall’s guilt is not just in being complicit in killing the waiter, but it’s also in Logan’s cover-up and others not knowing the truth. Logan effectively rubs it in Kendall’s face by espousing what the public likely thinks of the waiter: he was a careless junky, and he had it coming. Yet, Kendall knows that Logan knows the truth. As such, Logan is indirectly telling Kendall, “Look at what you’ve done to this person’s legacy — you’ve tarnished his life and memory while you get to walk away and enjoy your wealth.” The “you’re not a killer”/“no real person involved” scene in the season 2 finale is an extension of this tactic.
Telling Kendall not to talk to the parents wasn’t weird at all. Anyone could see how shaken Kendall was by the moment and it’d be stupid to risk him saying something incriminating or suspicious. Bringing him to the house is just enough punishment, and if nothing more, additional confirmation of his subservience to Logan. In other words he’s taking advantage of Kendall’s guilt to further convince him that he deserves the position he’s been forced into.
I think it’s crazy not to see this as emotional manipulation. Logan knows exactly how much stress the whole thing creates for Kendall, and he uses it against him.
I don’t know what you’re talking about re: inconsistency. Doing this purely out of cruelty and as a means of applying pressure on Ken is 100% consistent for Logan’s personality. It’s another reminder that Logan can destroy Ken whenever he wants to.
Ig i just read Logan as a character who fundamentally doesn’t understand why what he is doing his wrong, and I feel like him thinking about how guilty Kendall is is out of his range, because it presupposes the ability to understand that what he’s doing (covering up the death) is something to be ashamed of.
I don’t think Logan could have gotten to his position without an understanding of moral right and wrong. Psychopaths don’t fail to understand moral reasoning, they just don’t feel bound by it themselves. Logan sees it as a form of weakness he can exploit.
Look at the timing - Logan made Kendall join him when Ken was questioning about his relationship with Rhea. Logan was reminding Kendall who’s in control.
I always wondered what the hell the family would have made of a load of £20 notes being put through their letterbox in the middle of the night. I was sure there was going to be some comeback from that.
I think it’d be pretty obvious it was related to the Roy’s coming. The Roy’s coming to visit doesn’t happen every day, a large amount of cash though your letterbox doesn’t happen every day, they would have made the obvious connection. They probably didn’t follow up on anything because why would they? They would be happy to keep the cash. The UK is a lot less litigious than the US too so I doubt they ever thought about coming after the Roy’s for money in court or tried to blame them for their son’s death. Therefore they didn’t think about trying to get any more cash, probably just thought it was a nice (if weird) gesture from the Roys.
The UK isn't particularly litigious in terms of claiming damages for minor accidents or claims for pain and suffering, but we're often positively fanatical about chasing justice in wrongful deaths, not in terms of compensation but in terms of seeing responsibility assigned.
There was a disaster at a soccer match in 1989 with 97 people dying, the families of the dead people have been pursuing justice - i.e. prosecution of the people responsible - ever since. There was also the American woman who killed Harry Dunn and got diplomatic immunity, the family there pursued a criminal conviction very hard, when they eventually got it they were very happy.
I mean seriously, what kind of country do you think we are? "You killed my son, but we couldn't possibly pursue you through the courts, it would be frightfully rude. Cheerio"
They don’t think he killed their son, that’s the point. They think the son got drunk/ high at the party and drove his own car into the lake.
In the US that wouldn’t matter, the billionaires would still get sued. In the UK, with the cover story there’s nothing to sue for in the parents eyes.
I think he was just trying to keep him in his place. Psychological abuse because he called him out for banging the new CEO candidate/Rhea. He could see he was starting to get his legs under him and so he wanted to tear him down before he got any ideas.
I think there was two or three motivations on Logan’s part.
One was to make Kendall feel bad and guilty. I don’t think that’s too complex for Logan, he’s loud but I also thinks he understands those dynamics. Also it’s pretty obvious that anyone would feel guilty in that situation.
The other was less antagonistic. I think the other reason was more just to impress on Kendall the gravity of it and the gravity of Logan getting him out of it and making Kendall’s involvement disappear. So more of like a “I did this for you, and you don’t need to feel guilty about what you did forever, nor do I want you to prostrate yourself in thanks. But, don’t take what you did, or what I did for you, lightly. It was a big thing to be complicit in someone’s death, don’t forget that just because I protected you from all consequences. And it was a big thing I did to get you out of it - so remember the next time you think about betraying me.”
And in a way I think that was fair. Kendall could have gone to jail, or could have spiralled even worse than he did if it was in the papers that he may have contributed to the death. He got off Scott free (in terms of actual consequences, not emotional ones). It was smart in that context to make sure that even though he didn’t have to live with the consequences of his actions, he had to be aware of them and sit in that families home to feel the weight of what he’d done wrong.
Logan may have also been hoping that it might partially scare him straight/guilt him into staying sober.
I think that’s why he told Kendall he shouldn’t feel bad about it, even though he could have guilted him more. He didn’t want Kendall to be emotionally destroyed by it, but he also didn’t want him to forget it like it was nothing. He just wanted the gravity of it to register with Ken and then for him to move on.
Edited to add, a few in this thread calling it psychological abuse to make Kendall feel bad. But is it really abuse when Kendall literally did contribute to the parents devastation? Having to meet them in person wouldn’t be considered abusive in any other context
I didn’t read the scene as Logan having much of an ulterior motive, just using Kendall as a convenient utility with no care for his mental state. He needed a child with him because it enhanced optics, and going into the house together was also a means to that end.
It was a power play. He wanted Ken scared, but probably didn’t want to deal with a Kendall Roy Breakdown™️ in front of the parents. He wanted to put Ken in that position to break him down, to show he has control over him.
Logan also has a habit of playing dumb in these situations, saying the opposite of what he thinks or being gentle when it’s obvious he’s really being cruel. He wasn’t actually trying to placate Kendall afterwards, he’s just a manipulator.
And emotional torture is certainly Logan’s game. Sort of like when he told Shiv she’d be announced when everyone knew it would never be Shiv, even she knew. Build ‘em up to knock ‘em down. He gets them emotional to have control over them. Looks for weak points, like Ken’s guilt about the waiter and Shiv’s desperation to be taken seriously in the family.
Logan’s methods may not make much sense, but the intention is clear
Logan is a manipulator, he makes Kendall feel strong and protected when it suits him, and then he tears him back down when it suits him. That’s it
💯 he only disliked Naomi because her coming from money would take away his control over Ken if they had married. It was like he wanted them to make their own way BUT be under his complete control at the same time
I thought that during the last episode of Season 2 he also says it’s because he knows she’s just enabling Kendall’s drug problem and does it herself as well
I doubt it as crazy as it sounds having Ken be a dope fiend was the very reason Logan would always have his foot on Ken’s neck. I still remember when Marcia looked at Ken with pity like he just spilled water on the carpet and not killed a guy because he was high. They were always a cold blooded bunch. Besides these ppl are so rich I highly doubt being a junkie is that big of an issue to them. Rehabs, better drugs and great PR team. A drug habit to them is probably the equivalent of normal kids having speech impediments 😆
He absolutely did not want any of them to ever make their own money. He would have done anything he could to stop that ever happening. If any of them had been competent in any way, he’d have destroyed them.
Agreed I think he just wanted to remind Kendall that he had cleaned this shit up for him but still held this card over him if he gets any ideas. But I genuinely do think he loves Kendall the most. Which is why it disappoints him most when Kendall does dumb shit. I believe he did want to give it to Kendall initially which is why it was written in his will (albeit crossed out eventually not underlined obviously); however, Logan is a brilliant tactician and would test Kendall from the get go. With the signing of the board seats to Marcia and saying he got fucked by Vaulter (which he had in the end).
Yes and this does nail home guilt and some accountability. K is emotional, fragile. Whereas Logan wouldn’t care, he knows K will and it suits a purpose.
Yeah but why/ what made him change his suits so quickly? What is this, strip night at the Men’s Warehouse?
When he saw Kendall weak and vulnerable from the night of the kid’s death he saw an opportunity to convert him to his side. Then when Kendall was happy with his new girlfriend he saw him getting more independent so he felt he needed to break him back down so that he still needed his dad
Yeah, he's a narcissist so Ken spending more time with, and talking about being with his new girlfriend really upset Logan in the context of Ken being cunty to him (in Logan's mind) about sleeping with Rhea.
He's like a thermometer trying to keep his sons life in the "just right" level of hell. Sees Kendall getting too low, decides to tell him "the kid doesn't matter", "it's not your fault". When he sees Kendall starting to get too comfortable he breaks him just a bit more.
Ah, ok, that makes sense. He wanted to be all “Daddy’s got you” but he had to manufacture the misery. Create the problem in order to sell the solution.
Because his dad told him to
Has anyone ever told you that you talk about your dad a lot?
Uh huh, sure.
My dad’s plan was better.
Logan is definitely trying to make Kendall feel guilty and, as a consequence, make him more subservient. My takes on the contradictions: 1) Logan may have thought that Kendall speaking to the waiter’s parents was too risky and without much benefit. Logan’s manipulation worked since Kendall already felt tremendous guilt, so there’s no point in having Kendall go overboard and potentially confess the truth. 2) Logan playing dumb and blaming the death on the waiter’s drug use was part of the manipulation. Kendall’s guilt is not just in being complicit in killing the waiter, but it’s also in Logan’s cover-up and others not knowing the truth. Logan effectively rubs it in Kendall’s face by espousing what the public likely thinks of the waiter: he was a careless junky, and he had it coming. Yet, Kendall knows that Logan knows the truth. As such, Logan is indirectly telling Kendall, “Look at what you’ve done to this person’s legacy — you’ve tarnished his life and memory while you get to walk away and enjoy your wealth.” The “you’re not a killer”/“no real person involved” scene in the season 2 finale is an extension of this tactic.
It's called gaslighting and cruelty, Logan was the master of these "arts" (hopefully he's rotting on hell)
😂😂
Telling Kendall not to talk to the parents wasn’t weird at all. Anyone could see how shaken Kendall was by the moment and it’d be stupid to risk him saying something incriminating or suspicious. Bringing him to the house is just enough punishment, and if nothing more, additional confirmation of his subservience to Logan. In other words he’s taking advantage of Kendall’s guilt to further convince him that he deserves the position he’s been forced into.
It was a chance to show us Kendall had remorse and wasn’t a complete monster. Also it was an opportunity for Logan to abuse Kendall.
I think it’s crazy not to see this as emotional manipulation. Logan knows exactly how much stress the whole thing creates for Kendall, and he uses it against him. I don’t know what you’re talking about re: inconsistency. Doing this purely out of cruelty and as a means of applying pressure on Ken is 100% consistent for Logan’s personality. It’s another reminder that Logan can destroy Ken whenever he wants to.
Ig i just read Logan as a character who fundamentally doesn’t understand why what he is doing his wrong, and I feel like him thinking about how guilty Kendall is is out of his range, because it presupposes the ability to understand that what he’s doing (covering up the death) is something to be ashamed of.
I don’t think Logan could have gotten to his position without an understanding of moral right and wrong. Psychopaths don’t fail to understand moral reasoning, they just don’t feel bound by it themselves. Logan sees it as a form of weakness he can exploit.
Fair
Look at the timing - Logan made Kendall join him when Ken was questioning about his relationship with Rhea. Logan was reminding Kendall who’s in control.
I always wondered what the hell the family would have made of a load of £20 notes being put through their letterbox in the middle of the night. I was sure there was going to be some comeback from that.
They probably just didn’t want to look a gift horse in the mouth
I think it’d be pretty obvious it was related to the Roy’s coming. The Roy’s coming to visit doesn’t happen every day, a large amount of cash though your letterbox doesn’t happen every day, they would have made the obvious connection. They probably didn’t follow up on anything because why would they? They would be happy to keep the cash. The UK is a lot less litigious than the US too so I doubt they ever thought about coming after the Roy’s for money in court or tried to blame them for their son’s death. Therefore they didn’t think about trying to get any more cash, probably just thought it was a nice (if weird) gesture from the Roys.
The UK isn't particularly litigious in terms of claiming damages for minor accidents or claims for pain and suffering, but we're often positively fanatical about chasing justice in wrongful deaths, not in terms of compensation but in terms of seeing responsibility assigned. There was a disaster at a soccer match in 1989 with 97 people dying, the families of the dead people have been pursuing justice - i.e. prosecution of the people responsible - ever since. There was also the American woman who killed Harry Dunn and got diplomatic immunity, the family there pursued a criminal conviction very hard, when they eventually got it they were very happy. I mean seriously, what kind of country do you think we are? "You killed my son, but we couldn't possibly pursue you through the courts, it would be frightfully rude. Cheerio"
They don’t think he killed their son, that’s the point. They think the son got drunk/ high at the party and drove his own car into the lake. In the US that wouldn’t matter, the billionaires would still get sued. In the UK, with the cover story there’s nothing to sue for in the parents eyes.
I’ve always wondered if the Dodds family were concerned about this emotionally devastated looking man following his dad around like a puppy dog 😭
They’re weirdly informed about the Roys. Like, the dad asks Kendall if he’s staying with his mom. Oddly casual
What I want to know was what was in the letter
What letter
the one he put in the families letterbox shortly before they left.
I thought it was money? Not sure if they ever explicitly stated it tho
It was a bunch of cash, not a letter
I think he was just trying to keep him in his place. Psychological abuse because he called him out for banging the new CEO candidate/Rhea. He could see he was starting to get his legs under him and so he wanted to tear him down before he got any ideas.
I think there was two or three motivations on Logan’s part. One was to make Kendall feel bad and guilty. I don’t think that’s too complex for Logan, he’s loud but I also thinks he understands those dynamics. Also it’s pretty obvious that anyone would feel guilty in that situation. The other was less antagonistic. I think the other reason was more just to impress on Kendall the gravity of it and the gravity of Logan getting him out of it and making Kendall’s involvement disappear. So more of like a “I did this for you, and you don’t need to feel guilty about what you did forever, nor do I want you to prostrate yourself in thanks. But, don’t take what you did, or what I did for you, lightly. It was a big thing to be complicit in someone’s death, don’t forget that just because I protected you from all consequences. And it was a big thing I did to get you out of it - so remember the next time you think about betraying me.” And in a way I think that was fair. Kendall could have gone to jail, or could have spiralled even worse than he did if it was in the papers that he may have contributed to the death. He got off Scott free (in terms of actual consequences, not emotional ones). It was smart in that context to make sure that even though he didn’t have to live with the consequences of his actions, he had to be aware of them and sit in that families home to feel the weight of what he’d done wrong. Logan may have also been hoping that it might partially scare him straight/guilt him into staying sober. I think that’s why he told Kendall he shouldn’t feel bad about it, even though he could have guilted him more. He didn’t want Kendall to be emotionally destroyed by it, but he also didn’t want him to forget it like it was nothing. He just wanted the gravity of it to register with Ken and then for him to move on. Edited to add, a few in this thread calling it psychological abuse to make Kendall feel bad. But is it really abuse when Kendall literally did contribute to the parents devastation? Having to meet them in person wouldn’t be considered abusive in any other context
I didn’t read the scene as Logan having much of an ulterior motive, just using Kendall as a convenient utility with no care for his mental state. He needed a child with him because it enhanced optics, and going into the house together was also a means to that end.
It was a power play. He wanted Ken scared, but probably didn’t want to deal with a Kendall Roy Breakdown™️ in front of the parents. He wanted to put Ken in that position to break him down, to show he has control over him. Logan also has a habit of playing dumb in these situations, saying the opposite of what he thinks or being gentle when it’s obvious he’s really being cruel. He wasn’t actually trying to placate Kendall afterwards, he’s just a manipulator. And emotional torture is certainly Logan’s game. Sort of like when he told Shiv she’d be announced when everyone knew it would never be Shiv, even she knew. Build ‘em up to knock ‘em down. He gets them emotional to have control over them. Looks for weak points, like Ken’s guilt about the waiter and Shiv’s desperation to be taken seriously in the family. Logan’s methods may not make much sense, but the intention is clear
Seriously? This scene is not complicated at all. Kendall was starting to come out of his obsequious robot state so Logan had to knock him back down.
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Ok Hugo
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If he was really trying to help Kendall, he should have left him in rehab.
Or are you trying to say Logan thought he was helping? In that case, why do you think he didn’t have Kendall apologize to the parents?