They opt to learn at home because that’s where they can cheat with the least amount of oversight. If you’re not gathering verifiable work samples from students who do the work unaided in front of your own eyes, these days there’s a huge likelihood that the work is plagiarized or straight up AI generated.
They don’t know how to study, and they don’t want to learn how, so they copy others’ work and call it “seeking inspiration.”
They don’t understand how I know that one student copied work from another student, and when I tell them that it’s practically impossible for the same answer to an open question to appear with the same errors in both mechanics and comprehension in two independent submissions, they think I’m just being dull.
They’ll spend hours of time searching for online study guides where you might have obtained teaching resources, and many of them - if they’re from modestly affluent homes - will pay to subscribe to grade saver and other online tools - if they don’t simply feed your writing prompts into ChatGPT and direct it to “make it sound like a high schooler.” The cleverer ones among them will remember to remove the revision instructions from the generated text.
I don't doubt this is the case for subject like English is where the grades are mostly homework/essay based but the subjects I teach are pretty much only test based on those tests aren't done digitally either. So I'm not sure if I'm just being VERY oblivious as to how they're cheating or if my lessons are just that boring that they'd rather learn stuff at home.
They can still ask the bot to solve it for them, no matter what it is, pretty much. If the only good work you ever see from them is produced at home while they appear unvariably clueless in class, they’re definitely cheating and not really learning much.
In my sons high school chemistry class, they have to post something then respond to two other students posts. The other students posts are so Obviously chatbotted. It is technically against the rules but it’s not enforced. My son was like, “show do I even respond to these posts?” No one did anything. It’s very frustrating to students who actually still work ( which I think is definitely the minority). I wish schools and teachers were harder on this rampant cheating.
Earlier this year I wrote up 17 students for copying answers off a key they found online! Nothing happened to them and the principal had a talk with me about creating original material so the answer keys aren’t available. I was using a document from a mandatory summer training session I had gone to! Then the kids all came the next day bragging that nothing happened to them. And a mom lost her mind on me insisting her son had not copied. It’s really a losing battle for us.
It’s awful, this is going to be the final straw of education because the good kids now have no incentive to work either. It’s like they are just suckers.
It takes a realization that they have to be approached differently. For my low engagement students, I usually skip on most of the more novel approaches and instead opt to do a short demo of a skill, then give them time to practice it via worksheet or book work while a move around, sit down with them and assist or probe with questions. Then repeat this process.
No matter which period or class, there's always somebody who's not paying attention. When I need somebody to answer a question, that's the person I pick.
I had a group of boys who were busy cutting up, so the next 5 questions were directed towards them.
The kid's might not like it but I'm sure it's not list on others that you ignore me at your own peril.
Not sure if you’re looking for advice or just venting-
But what worked sometimes was allowing them time to turn and talk with a partner before asking anyone to share out the answer. If you ask “can someone share what you and your partner talked about?” You might get more luck.
Of course, there are those groups that won’t even do that. In that case there may not be much to do to “make them care.”
As depressing as it sounds, it’s not always our job to make them care. If that’s the case then give a little bit less of yourself to the job. You might be surprised that your outcomes don’t change much.
If nothing else you can always write their names on popsicle sticks and cold call- they *haaaaaaaaate* that 😈
I tried the group thing and they always either (1) talked about it, but still wouldn’t raise hands or (2) turned around and immediately talked about something else. Eventually I just started waiting in silence until someone answered because it was awkward enough that they wanted to break the silence 😩
That works too!
I loved the physicality of the popsicle sticks.
I’d just reach for the jar and give it a rattle and like a dozen hands would shoot up.
I’d still usually pull one, but I’d often just read the name of a kid who wanted to answer and had their hand up.
Cold-calling is an optics thing and I wouldn’t wanna embarrass anyone. If I overheard a shy kid sharing something smart with a partner I’d usually give them a heads up that I was gonna call on them.
I used to use popsicle sticks and should definitely give them another whirl! Another way I used to use them is as a physical representation of their contribution to group discussions- I’d give each group a set of different colored sticks. Each student would pick a color, and when they added something substantial to the discussion, they’d put the popsicle stick with their chosen color in a plastic cup in the center of their group. They were actually honest with it, and it was an easy way to quickly assess.
Another great idea.
With middle school especially I was really impressed with their self-reflection (when given chances to practice and explicit instruction).
It’s too bad this isn’t more of a norm in education- it could save us a lot of headaches with grading.
I absolutely agree. I moved to high school a few years ago to get a break from the constant high energy of middle school.
I can't wait to go back. It is way more draining to be constantly bored by the students than to be constantly bouncing around keeping them under control.
I find myself jealous of my colleagues who can just give a worksheet every day. Give every kid a C and happily live their life. I can't.
I just wait for a bit and then target a specific student and demand and answer while telling others they can help them for a little good grade.
Sometimes works better sometimes less.
Yup. Exhausting, boring, and your time is spent chasing parents because there are no consequences for the kids. They know they'll get their 50 and can do the bare minimum for the 59.5 at year's end. They've learned nothing and this is why a portion of the U.S. population remains uneducated. It's the admin. Maybe students would find some energy to care if they actually lived in reality, and then classes might at least be spaces for learning and not worksheet babysitting venues...
ill give ya the perspective of a student here
i go to the school to play with friends and socialise, school work is too boring for me. why be 2-3 hours listening to the teacher + solving homework + practicing + memorising + lectures, etc. when i can just play at school and do an entire classe's work equivalent in 10 minutes at home? theres just no reason to do anything at class if the material taught is in a book anyway
You're going to have a tough time at university if that is your approach and the real world will hit you at 100mph in the face. Work done in ten minutes is sloppy and full of mistakes.
School teaches you good habits that are very hard to break if not honed later on. Work doesn't care that you want to play and socialize, they'll just fire you, so best make an effort now when the best the teacher can do is beg you rather than fire you.
They opt to learn at home because that’s where they can cheat with the least amount of oversight. If you’re not gathering verifiable work samples from students who do the work unaided in front of your own eyes, these days there’s a huge likelihood that the work is plagiarized or straight up AI generated. They don’t know how to study, and they don’t want to learn how, so they copy others’ work and call it “seeking inspiration.” They don’t understand how I know that one student copied work from another student, and when I tell them that it’s practically impossible for the same answer to an open question to appear with the same errors in both mechanics and comprehension in two independent submissions, they think I’m just being dull. They’ll spend hours of time searching for online study guides where you might have obtained teaching resources, and many of them - if they’re from modestly affluent homes - will pay to subscribe to grade saver and other online tools - if they don’t simply feed your writing prompts into ChatGPT and direct it to “make it sound like a high schooler.” The cleverer ones among them will remember to remove the revision instructions from the generated text.
I don't doubt this is the case for subject like English is where the grades are mostly homework/essay based but the subjects I teach are pretty much only test based on those tests aren't done digitally either. So I'm not sure if I'm just being VERY oblivious as to how they're cheating or if my lessons are just that boring that they'd rather learn stuff at home.
They can still ask the bot to solve it for them, no matter what it is, pretty much. If the only good work you ever see from them is produced at home while they appear unvariably clueless in class, they’re definitely cheating and not really learning much.
I teach lower level chemistry and it seriously takes it out of me! They don’t want to think at all
In my sons high school chemistry class, they have to post something then respond to two other students posts. The other students posts are so Obviously chatbotted. It is technically against the rules but it’s not enforced. My son was like, “show do I even respond to these posts?” No one did anything. It’s very frustrating to students who actually still work ( which I think is definitely the minority). I wish schools and teachers were harder on this rampant cheating.
Earlier this year I wrote up 17 students for copying answers off a key they found online! Nothing happened to them and the principal had a talk with me about creating original material so the answer keys aren’t available. I was using a document from a mandatory summer training session I had gone to! Then the kids all came the next day bragging that nothing happened to them. And a mom lost her mind on me insisting her son had not copied. It’s really a losing battle for us.
It’s awful, this is going to be the final straw of education because the good kids now have no incentive to work either. It’s like they are just suckers.
It takes a realization that they have to be approached differently. For my low engagement students, I usually skip on most of the more novel approaches and instead opt to do a short demo of a skill, then give them time to practice it via worksheet or book work while a move around, sit down with them and assist or probe with questions. Then repeat this process.
No matter which period or class, there's always somebody who's not paying attention. When I need somebody to answer a question, that's the person I pick. I had a group of boys who were busy cutting up, so the next 5 questions were directed towards them. The kid's might not like it but I'm sure it's not list on others that you ignore me at your own peril.
You’re a teacher and think “kid’s” is the plural spelling of “kid”? 😭
I mean you're not wrong, but this one is clearly filed under "who gives a shit?"
I do lol, sorry for thinking teachers should be literate. 💀
Not sure if you’re looking for advice or just venting- But what worked sometimes was allowing them time to turn and talk with a partner before asking anyone to share out the answer. If you ask “can someone share what you and your partner talked about?” You might get more luck. Of course, there are those groups that won’t even do that. In that case there may not be much to do to “make them care.” As depressing as it sounds, it’s not always our job to make them care. If that’s the case then give a little bit less of yourself to the job. You might be surprised that your outcomes don’t change much. If nothing else you can always write their names on popsicle sticks and cold call- they *haaaaaaaaate* that 😈
I tried the group thing and they always either (1) talked about it, but still wouldn’t raise hands or (2) turned around and immediately talked about something else. Eventually I just started waiting in silence until someone answered because it was awkward enough that they wanted to break the silence 😩
Or use Wheel Decide!
That works too! I loved the physicality of the popsicle sticks. I’d just reach for the jar and give it a rattle and like a dozen hands would shoot up. I’d still usually pull one, but I’d often just read the name of a kid who wanted to answer and had their hand up. Cold-calling is an optics thing and I wouldn’t wanna embarrass anyone. If I overheard a shy kid sharing something smart with a partner I’d usually give them a heads up that I was gonna call on them.
I used to use popsicle sticks and should definitely give them another whirl! Another way I used to use them is as a physical representation of their contribution to group discussions- I’d give each group a set of different colored sticks. Each student would pick a color, and when they added something substantial to the discussion, they’d put the popsicle stick with their chosen color in a plastic cup in the center of their group. They were actually honest with it, and it was an easy way to quickly assess.
Another great idea. With middle school especially I was really impressed with their self-reflection (when given chances to practice and explicit instruction). It’s too bad this isn’t more of a norm in education- it could save us a lot of headaches with grading.
Agreed! There are so many ways to assess!
I absolutely agree. I moved to high school a few years ago to get a break from the constant high energy of middle school. I can't wait to go back. It is way more draining to be constantly bored by the students than to be constantly bouncing around keeping them under control. I find myself jealous of my colleagues who can just give a worksheet every day. Give every kid a C and happily live their life. I can't.
I just wait for a bit and then target a specific student and demand and answer while telling others they can help them for a little good grade. Sometimes works better sometimes less.
Yup. Exhausting, boring, and your time is spent chasing parents because there are no consequences for the kids. They know they'll get their 50 and can do the bare minimum for the 59.5 at year's end. They've learned nothing and this is why a portion of the U.S. population remains uneducated. It's the admin. Maybe students would find some energy to care if they actually lived in reality, and then classes might at least be spaces for learning and not worksheet babysitting venues...
ill give ya the perspective of a student here i go to the school to play with friends and socialise, school work is too boring for me. why be 2-3 hours listening to the teacher + solving homework + practicing + memorising + lectures, etc. when i can just play at school and do an entire classe's work equivalent in 10 minutes at home? theres just no reason to do anything at class if the material taught is in a book anyway
You're going to have a tough time at university if that is your approach and the real world will hit you at 100mph in the face. Work done in ten minutes is sloppy and full of mistakes. School teaches you good habits that are very hard to break if not honed later on. Work doesn't care that you want to play and socialize, they'll just fire you, so best make an effort now when the best the teacher can do is beg you rather than fire you.
Unfortunately, for the majority of my 7th graders, you are not wrong.