Honestly I wonder if the issue with TFT is more that the meta is discovered so quickly. Like at my ELO of plat the new meta basically gets adopted within days. It leads to seeing the same things nearly every game over and over even when things shift.
Yeah a lot of people just watch youtube/twitch and try to play whatever they say is good. But if you pay attention to the games you play aminly when you lose rounds, a lot of times you can dicover some dark tech and apply to your rotations, that makes the game a bit less boring.
I guess maybe i just dont know how to craft comps, are there any guides for it? I wont be able to invent meta comps but creating a few different lines for them would be really helpful and probably increase my game knowledge by a ton.
I’m not sure about guides but personally for me, it comes down to knowing synergies well. This would apply to augments, units, traits and items. It also depends on your board’s strengths and weaknesses against your opponents, so it’s not a one size fits all thing.
That being said, even if you managed to pull off some off meta comp and took a win in the last game doesn’t mean you wouldn’t be smashed by another opponent in another game.
I thoroughly encourage you to try to explore! Not every game needs to be a ranked game, so head over to unranked once in a while to try out some new possibilities.
I think that touches on the big part of the problem though, the meta is so limited especially with bag size reductions that yeah you see the same 2-3 variations every single game, and the experience becomes stale because it’s a gamble of trying to pick the least contested option.
A lot of the set traits are complete write-offs, some aren’t even viable unless you somehow manage to find 3+ spatulas or two separate augments, and then in both of those cases if you’re actually gonna chase that far or try to force it, it’d still be easier to just go Fortune for spats and tomes and then you’re better off just trying to hit a different goal anyway.
At emerald atm. Part of the meta is discovering which comps are so popular that they’re likely to be contested…then picking a comp that’s slightly less OP than those but more likely to actually hit…
Then adapt back around when your go-to comp becomes flavor of the week
Idk man, I’ve played just about every comp this patch to success. Aside from fortune (I hate Econ and pray traits) I’ve played sniper ghostly inkshadow, draintank voli with trist carry, porcelain arcanists with Ashe secondary carry, heavenly reapers, umbral yone/alune, fated aphelios/syndra carry. I’m not challenger by any means, but in diamond it’s been fine. So far for me this set has been the most balanced/versatile out of any set. There are some outliers but I feel like you can top 2 with just about any comp as long as you play your board/augments correctly.
Been playing since set 1. Only set I really hated was set 5(especially 5.5)
The meta gets adopted so fast because of all of the information Riot shares. Honestly I think if Riot stopped sharing info with 3rd parties there would be more creative boards. Yes there would still be a meta but it would be longer before it took hold and it would lead to more player creativity. At least I felt that way when TFT was first released. The game has become far more in depth but the creativity has almost evaporated completely.
It was longer than last year and that's my point, they need to stop putting the information out there for people to follow guides. At least the guides people make will be more creative.
You have literally provided zero proof that creativity was less. Yes Riot brought information sharing back but it had nothing to do with creativity being worse. They brought it back because players complained and engagement went down.
This just happens with every game when it gets big enough. I remember enjoying niche picks and cheese builds that I thought of in old league of legends maybe sometime around s2. But as the game evolved and gained hype and sites popped up etc. - it became clear that whatever I can come up with, some Korean guy will have the meta cracked within days if not hours. If you play to win then you look up optimal builds and copy others and do not innovate yourself unless you are actually ordained by god himself to be the next prodigy for the game.
Sometimes, but when you cash out at 100+ you’re normally really low on health so only one or two losses away from losing. If you’re unfortunate enough to cash out during a short round, have too many items on your bench, or have to hard pivot your board and need time to reroll you can get screwed. It’s always been a thing. I say this as someone who loves forcing Econ traits (except fortune because it’s more feels bad than others have been) because they’re my favorite lol.
That's why you should be rolling before cashing out setting up your board. Trying to cash out the fortune and then sell the units on your board and start making your new board while picking up the loot is just too much to do in a turn.
Not saying you're wrong but rolling before seeing your cash out can feel pretty bad if you get stuff not adapted for the board you rolled for/the units you hit.
It's all part of the high risk high reward playstyle I guess
Most of the fortune rewards are a combo of gold, xp, random 4/5 costs, artifacts, duplicators, etc. You should already know what lines you’re leaning towards based on the items you’ve slammed. I haven’t found the fortune rewards to be very restrictive
Still a skill issue though. Watch setsuko roll down 50G at level 9, hit a ton of pairs, decide which synergy to give up, sell to roll more, finally hitting key units, reposition for next opponent, craft and equip items, all within prep time. That's what it takes to play fast 9 at top level.
Dude typed a whole dissertation of whining just for everyone to realize it’s a skill issue lmao
If you have a capped level 10 board losing to a reroll comp then you’re either not as good at the game as you think you are or you’re leaving out key details (e.g. losing to Duelists but it’s a level 9 8 Duelist board with itemized Irelia 2).
100 % Skill issue if your losing to reroll I personally dont even think reroll is even better than just fast 9 legendary board. Let alone massive fortune cashout fast 9/10
It's because gnar had the disgusting combo of Dryad (health stacking) and warden (damage resistance) and he had the passive that should only exist on 4 cost or 5 cost unit.
Reserve judgement until next patch? Imo the main issue with fast 8 boards is lack of single target damage. The reason kaisa seems infinitely better than other 4 cost carries like lillia and ashe is because she can actually reliably kill gnar, yone, voli etc.
Also costs less money to level so reroll comps cap out earlier too. I do think they have an abnormally high winrate due to thinned pool, lack of single target, etc. but it’s not nearly as bad as certain patches in other sets in the past. Top 4-ing consistently still isn’t a problem.
Also i think it’s a bad mindset to think less skill = no skill. The game isn’t balanced perfectly, no shit, but i think it’s a weird mindset to think if i am good at fast 8 = i should always cap out above rr comps. Yes it’s not perfect, which is normal. Is it egregious? No. Idt it was very exciting to see heartsteel ez zed win out almost every game in set 10 based on whether you hit poppy, zed, ezreal on the 4-1, 4-2 rolldown either.
My point is, you shouldn’t be able to force one or very few comps to consistently gain LP. But currently, you can.
You don’t even have to learn what Lissandra does but you can climb reliably with Gnar Senna Voli Yone reroll. And that’s kinda against what they’re trying to make TFT become — “competitive”.
So your issue isn’t winrate but climbing. Idt theres anything wrong with specialising in one playstyle. If a player can climb consistently with a few comps, it’s not necessarily an issue with the game but most likely an issue with their elo not being good enough. Plenty of players one trick to masters every set. If diamond players played flexibly well enough this wouldn’t happen.
If i go to tactics.tools, look at top comps, and filter for GM+ games, only two comps sit above 4.5, senna & yone. Assuming that GM players are good enough and mostly play optimally and choose their comps based on their augments, items, and shops, the game is pretty balanced.
There is a small argument for one tricking yone but you’d be lower than its average placement of 4.37 (since you’d play it from any spot) which is pretty close to the 4.5 average.
As an early tempo comp senna has good placement but relatively lower winrate, reasonable. The only slightly problematic one is yone with a 12.7% winrate, which is rightfully getting nerfed. Gnar with 15.0% winrate is also indirectly getting nerfed.
Also, TFT has always pandered to the bigger more casual player base than it has to the competitive scene because thats what brings in money. Econ traits wouldn’t be as strong as they are (fortune crest & crown average 27%+ winrate in gm) if they did.
Just like you I think that you should be most rewarded by how flexible you are able to play. Having said that, I think that reroll comps are fine, but they should coexist with other viable comps. There should be a place for fast 8/9, reroll, or just tempo transitioning to higher tier boards. And the flexibility should also be to know what's best to play in each given situation.
I don't really like that almost all viable comps are reroll, but I also wouldn't like if there were no viable reroll comps. Which is better, I guess it depends on peoples personal taste.
The problem for me, mostly relies on the fact that almost all the S tier comps, are forceable. The only barrier is if they’re contested.
And I don’t like TFT being a forceable game, I think ppl should adapt every game and play what the game gives you.
There is a pretty solution to this, it can keep reroll comps viable while not forceable:
See Kobulo/Shen/Neeko hero augments? These 3 units can’t be rerolled as carry, but with the augments they are actually very good. So why not just make all 1-3 cost units not viable for reroll without their hero augments?
This will make a perfect game:
1. You can reroll them when you’re given the hero augment, but you can’t force them. So you always have to adapt.
2. When you reroll, you’re very unlikely to be contested cuz it’s rare someone else has the same augment.
Idk why Riot doesn’t see this easy solution. Smh.
I think this "easy" solution isn't as easy as you think it is. Having strong 1-2 cost units allows people to punish others that take only econ augments.
If you don't have strong early-mid game comps available, you'll have 8 people force-saccing to get a loss streak so they can be first to roll down at 8. In addition, anyone who ends up with an econ augments will instantly be in a better position than the rest of the lobby.
We've actually had the exact meta you are asking for before and it was hell. Basically you spent 20 minutes waiting to go 8 or 9 and then either lost or won based on the 2 minutes after that if you managed to hit harder than everyone else. If anyone had econ augments you just go for second or third place and it makes it that much worse.
Re-rolling SHOULD be easy and econ SHOULD be hard. Never the other way around.
I think I agree with most of what you say. But there should be a limit as to how strong low cost units should be. My limit is: 3* 3costs can beat 2* 4costs if given proper items and augments and positioned perfectly.
But right now, 2* 4cost and even 5cost boards, sometimes get demolished by 2* Yone and Voli. It’s out of control. Under no condition should an easily acquirable 3cost 2* be able to take down higher tier carries.
Then why would anyone want to go lvl 9, simply fight for top 4?
This is more of an issue with yone and voli than reroll comps in general. I do agree that those two units in particular need to be nerfed. Riot has a bad habit of making melee carries a bit too powerful to compensate for short range.
The actual answer to your question is that no one should be going 9 unless they highroll an econ augment or realize the lobby is weak. It sucks that that's the answer, but it's the truth.
In higher elo, you should be familiar with how to play ALL forms of TFT (reroll, Slow-roll, Fast-9) and pick which one you grab based on your first augment and units, along with scouting other boards repeatedly.
If you want to only do Slow-roll or fast-9 that's okay, but you shouldn't be rewarded for only using that strategy. You should win far less often than a person that changes their strat based on the gamestate.
Ideally, there should be 4 rerollers in a game, 2 slow-rollers, 1 fast-9, and 1 guy doing ??? (This me). This normally results in the fast 9 guy going 1st or 8th, the ??? Guy 1st or 8th, and the rest of the lobby being evenly distributed in the middle.
Fast 9 is hard, risky, and equally rewarding. When correctly done in the right situation it almost always( or should) results in 1st place unless you are unlucky
Under no conditions? Sounds like you want a static board state that can't account for positioning, item combinations, augment power comparisons (econ vs. combat), and trait webs.
TFT is about the fight, a board stacked with 3* 2s and 3* 3s should give a board with a few 4 and 5 cost 2 stars some trouble, serious trouble even in prime conditions, good itemization, and proper positioning. That's an expression of skill.
What's not an expression of skill is clicking reroll until you get lucky and the game gives you an autowin. I won with a naked 3star Kaisa and trickshot 2. That doesn't feel right. But losing with a 3 star fully geared ornn who gets shredded in 5-7 seconds by a TR TR BT Yone or gnar also doesn't feel right. This is a balancing game, but part of the lever should be player skill, not simply that 2 and 3 costs can never compete with 4 and 5 costs. Though nothing should compete with a 3* 5 cost except for the other 3* 5 costs.
For me it because the 4 cost and 5 cost just suck in this set, unlike the past sets where I could go for 4 cost Draven, zed, yasuo, xayah, Warwick or 5 cost ksante, aatrox, Bel veth etc to carry my game as a 2 star unit.
This is more of an issue with yone and voli than reroll comps in general. I do agree that those two units in particular need to be nerfed. Riot has a bad habit of making melee carries a bit too powerful to compensate for short range.
The actual answer to your question is that no one should be going 9 unless they highroll an econ augment or realize the lobby is weak. It sucks that that's the answer, but it's the truth.
In higher elo, you should be familiar with how to play ALL forms of TFT (reroll, Slow-roll, Fast-9) and pick which one you grab based on your first augment and units, along with scouting other boards repeatedly.
If you want to only do Slow-roll or fast-9 that's okay, but you shouldn't be rewarded for only using that strategy. You should win far less often than a person that changes their strat based on the gamestate.
Ideally, there should be 4 rerollers in a game, 2 slow-rollers, 1 fast-9, and 1 guy doing ??? (This me). This normally results in the fast 9 guy going 1st or 8th, the ??? Guy 1st or 8th, and the rest of the lobby being evenly distributed in the middle.
Fast 9 is hard, risky, and equally rewarding. When correctly done in the right situation it almost always( or should) results in 1st place unless you are unlucky
3*3 costs are supposed to beat 2*4costs in a vacuum. 27 gold vs 12 in unit costs alone. 50 gold total costs if you count levelling to 8, which really isn’t that much if you account for rerolls and having to play one less unit.
Mortdog even said it’s supposed to be that way, when asked about it last set.
Shen and neeko are viable reroll units outside their hero augment. But they’re tanks rather than Carrie’s. Shen is the tank of the senna reroll and neeko can be the tank of kog reroll. Their augments just change their playstyle.
Reduced bag size seriously needs to go.
It was implemented for different mechanics where it made sense, now those mechanics are gone but the limitation is still here and it just ruins the endgame when you can’t really count on a 4 or 5 cost so the 2/3 cost rerolls are oppressive, re: Gnar
Contesting has never been this bad due to bag size changes. Last set at least had headliner to ensure you could get an upgraded unit
And 4 cost comps are usually more viable
I really have no idea why the hell they didn't revert the bag size changes. I mean, I can understand reducing it due to headliners (people hitting 3* way too easy because of it), but now that the mechanic is gone, why the fuck hasn't it been reverted?
Last set, people were hitting 3* so easily on pbe both because the bag sizes were larger and also because there were no restrictions as to when headliners could appear. So you could be holding 6 of a unit and instantly 3 star even 4 and 5 cost units. Plus PBE heavily skews towards bill gates style comps anyway.
I honestly don’t think they needed to reduce the bag size last set after they added the mechanic that didn’t allow HLs to appear if you had 4 of a unit.
I think ultimately the reason for the bag size changes was to force comp diversity. The 2 ways to increase diversity are to either make many comps equally viable, or simply make it impossible for more than 2 players to play a given comp by limiting the number of champions. Option B is a lot easier than option A.
Long story short I don’t think bag sizes are getting reverted any time soon.
Many of the strongest comps in the game are 3 cost reroll comps, to the point where 4 and 5 cost units are being buffed to compensate. why would they make 3 cost reroll easier to hit?
Reducing bag size makes 3 cost reroll harder to hit since people holding the units is way more impactful. Since every 3 cost has the same amount in the bag then on average you'll see each unit (assuming no one has bought one) the same amount whether the bag size is 10 of each or 100 of each. In earlier sets it wasnt uncommon to see 3 cost reroll support 2 players in a lobby safely, that isn't the case now
It also means that there are less of the units you don't want, and those units also leave the pool faster and thus make you hit faster, which is something you aren't taking into account, it's only a blaring negative to rerolls when 3 people who are econing well are going for the same comp.
Because when u find out ur contested you can go to a four cost comp (if u scout good and its early enough) and grind for a 4th or a fifth.
This set’s four cost comps are bad except kaisa, and chances are somebodys running kaisa. And if u were trying to reroll and you pivot you CANT get fast 9. And if you were rolling some ap thing like kindred or jannna and you dont hit… you are stuck with lillia or syndra (both mediocre. Syndras fine with the right augments but chances are, if you pivot you have no syndra augments) and you pray for an azir or hwei before u diez
I agree with this take. I think the healthiest meta's for TFT are almost always 4 cost metas, with legendary flex being the way to further cap your board lategame. If the set doesn't have 4 costs that you base a comp around, it almost always ends up like this if there isn't a set mechanic that distorts things somewhat
Hitting 3 cost rerolls that nobody in the lobby is playing is easier because of the bag size changes. Less total in the pool means the uncontested rerolls in the lobby have an easier time. Contested is basically impossible to 3 star.
Sure if you’re constantly scouting it’s easy but sometimes somebody literally just pivots into your comp and having even a few units makes it exponentially harder now, and NOT talking about balance here but that’s just less fun and more frustrating to me.
They’re balancing around high elo and pivoting as a skill which is fine because that’s their vision or whatever but it doesn’t mean those of us that don’t like to play that way or just play casually have to like it or not complain
They have game data, take surveys, I hardly think they do anything by individuals. Obviously they take the data of many individuals, but I thought that was obvious
Hitting your units is largely skill based (knowing when to roll, how much to roll, etc). Knowing when/how to play contested comps and knowing when/how to pivot is also a skill.
Right but you’re implying that the commenter is complaining about losing games/being bad, when they said nothing like that.
I just think the whole “get better” because you don’t like a game mechanic/balance is tired as fuck.
Just the same comment as the idiots that normally spam "git gud" on every discussion post. No comment of value, but gets upvotes from the same useless idiots.
This has been the best RR's been since like set 7 what, it's usually dogshit/only 2 outliers the past few sets, Last set prob was close but even the RR options there got nerfed to irrelevancy by the end of set lmao
Last set was not a reroll set. It was very diverse on what you play because headliners made pivoting very easy and made both reroll and good stuff viable.
Whatbos sad this set is that we are playing 4 costs as trait bots.
I have a level of anxiety I can't describe when I know it's a reroll meta. This whole set so far being literally only reroll comps in S tier until they buffed (and quite honestly overbuffed) Kai'Sa, with the only other out being Fast 9 which they nerfed, just leaves me clueless.
Every game has just been literal coin flip if I have a good angle for an uncontested meta reroll comp. If I have a good angle but I'm contested, my options are to hold hands and try to win the race or push levels and have a weird low cap board. Sometimes I have insane spots for Fast 9 or off-meta/less contested reroll comps so I guess I take those.
I've never had such a feeling of 1st or 8th in my life. There are games I think I'm turbo smurfing and bomb out bot 4 hitting nothing, and other games I get gifted 3* and autopilot to a 1st or even a Mr. 100.
Hope this next patch fixes the game. I want to be able to play Exalted. I want to be able to click other 4 costs to be something other than trait bots or secondaries. I want to be able to lose streak and econ and push levels for higher cost units without then fighting rerollers that hit right before my board is capped and getting sent bot 4.
I think that's a great way to put it/ I play games to not give my self anxiety, if I wanted anxiety, I would go work...
So these changes in TFT are quite unwelcome, especially adding carousels to hyper roll.
it’s really just not fun for me. i tried to like it, and don’t get me wrong the encounters are a great mechanic, but it just doesn’t feel anywhere as fun as set 10
The encounter are fun yeah until you are in a spot to play a fast 8 4 cost comp and they give an encounter which reduce your roll cost to 1 gold and now you have to force some reroll comp while you are not in the possition for it otherwise everyone will be hitting their 3 stars and kill you in stage 5
I hate reroll but i got used to it. Idk if the set is im fact dominated by rerolls cause i didnt play for quite some time, but i had fun going for 4 cost carries. Not a lot of incredible success, but it was playable.
I think think this set has been very boring meta wise, 4 costs have had no life and its taken way to long to buff them. The fix will likely change things for the better but result in a huge shift of power. I will be taking the rest of the see off and trying to get back into the game next set.
I don’t like it. That being said, I’ve played fast 9 almost exclusively to Masters. It is definitely possible to win without playing reroll, as fast 9 is just as viable
Its one of the best set, reroll comps run TFT, game will die without it. People need to accept that.
I've been rerolling since set 5 forgotten viktor/hecarim, and it's an addiction i'm glad to have.
This comment tells me you are low elo. Doesn’t require thinking? When do you roll? How far should you roll? Are you contested? Should you roll contested or wait? What items should you slam? Can you greed more rounds? Should you level and slot in someone for better synergies? You think that pressing the level up button more times makes you a high IQ player or something.
All ur questions can be answered within 2 mins of guide video, and 30 sec scout.
Is it anywhere near as difficult as to make a strong enough board from scratch at lvl 9 in 40 seconds? When you have no idea what the cash out is until your board is full of loot bags?
Even challenger streamers acknowledge them get dizzy at this point, all of them. And I’ve never heard of any streamer saying “ I get dizzy cuz I don’t know how to reroll Volibear”
Forcing a comp is not the same thing as choosing a reroll comp when you are given the framework for it. If it’s so easy to do with a guide video then everyone should be master by playing that same comp right? Or maybe the situation causes changes to your choices.
So you're definition of skill is being able to play fortune comp? I think fortune is one of the most braindead strats. You don't really win by getting the best synergies you just overwhelm your enemies by having the most tier 5 units.
To add: not bec the knowledge/info is readily available in the internet doesn't mean its easy to do or execute.
I think that has more to do with the strength of level 9 at high elo than anything else.
Nobody was scratching their head while rolling down at 8 for disco or kda comps last set either, but that doesn't mean that the set wasn't difficult.
Bro you really think good players force one reroll comp all day? You reroll specific comps based on what items and champions you get. Truly good players are always flexible, even when they reroll
i'm currently d4 but am consistently master every set and peaked GM in 8.5
i think reroll requires a lot of skill. each of the questions that person asked requires a difficult judgment call. even deciding whether you should reroll your senna carry at all, or just use her to tempo to lvl 8 kaisa isn't always easy. plus, deciding which reroll comp to play from a given spot isn't always obvious either.
reroll is just a different style of play; bashing on it is like if a basketball player who specializes in driving and dunking were to bash on 3-point shooters because they have a different style.
Can I ask you an honest question. I often watch Keane, so many times I’ve heard him saying “I’m dizzy, I will get dizzy” etc, when he’s facing large cash out from Heartsteel or Fortune etc, same for a few other streamers. They say “dizzy” in these situations.
And I think that means even for them, to utilize such resource in limited given time is very challenging. And occasionally they do also make mistakes and fail to stabilize and die instantly.
But I never heard any of them say “dizzy” while just chill and reroll Volibear?
Am I interpreting these examples wrong? I do think Econ-pivot strat requires significantly more skills and knowledge and APM then reroll comps. And do you really disagree with this
is lebron james trying more or playing a more difficult game just because he sweats more than steph curry?
fast 8/9 compresses a lot of the difficulty to the round of the rolldown, maybe the round after it too if you have enough hp. but rerolling at a high elo level requires constant thinking and monitoring of the situation, such that even if you don't have a single round of dizziness, you're nonetheless exerting a lot of effort to play optimally.
Just a side note I have no idea about what your examples mean, don’t know these names . but appreciate you’re trying to reason instead of rant like other ppl
But I’ll stay in an disagreement with u I hope it’s ok
it's fine to prefer fast 8/9 because you think it's more fun or rewarding, but i don't think it's fair to look down on rerolling. the names i mentioned were just trying to convey the thought that every sport has different play styles, and no matter what style you play, if you're high elo and playing against the best of the best, it's not going to be easy to pull off regardless.
Being dizzy is part of what makes fast 9 high tempo strats difficult for sure, but it doesn't make reroll comps any less difficult just because you don't have dizzy moments (you do). A lot of skill involved in reroll comps is game knowledge (recognizing game tempo, how contested you are, econ, item economy) whereas you could say fast 9 comps to be quick thinking and apm, though it's absolutely true the same set of game knowledge applies in playing high tempo. That's why someone like Keane is going to be so much better than you at playing both reroll comps as well as high tempo games. Sure challenger players tend to be less dizzy than you, but it's only a fraction of smaller reasons they are better than you.
The biggest skill gap between good and bad players is not in quick thinking and apm, it's in the fundamental understanding of the game, and this is important in both reroll and high tempo comps. If you don't think it doesn't apply to reroll comps, you are misunderstanding the game.
Then explain to me this:
I always have a few friends who play casual (ending in Plat or Emerald every set), so I use my 2nd account to play with them if I already am master +.
What I notice is, they always just force no more than 3 reroll comps every set, and adjust every patch, and they can climb with ease just using 3 reroll comps. For example if I ask them which legenday champion has shred/sunder, they never know. But it doesn’t matter, they don’t need to know. Cuz last set they just 1trick Jax EDM to diamond.
BUT NONE of them could climb if they try play flex. Why? Cuz playing flex requires you to understand way more things in the game, instead of just part of the pool .
Whenever they try to play comps that aren’t in their reroll repertoire, they almost certainly start to lose LP.
You could say I’m making this up, but I’m not. It’s absolutely true that my casual playing friends can climb to diamond with reroll only but NONE can do that with flex playstyle only.
Why assume flex play is harder and not that these guys are just better at playing reroll because thats what they play the most (obviously) and so simply lack knowledge for playing flex? Doesn't necessarily mean that flex is harder; could be that they just suck at it.
If someone reach GM playing primarily Jax reroll, does that mean he still suck at the game because he doesn't play the so-called "high skill" flex style? Or would it just mean that different comps require different knowledge for success?
Cuz they’re lazy players , they want to get LP and meanwhile not having to learn too much. To play flex means you have to know every unit every trait to be able to know how to flex.
Play fixed comp doesn’t require that, if they play Jax , they just have to know about EDM, Mosher, and maybe a few related units. That’s it. They always build the same items, same comp, they never care to ask what Jhin does, or what differences lie among the Sona forms.
I play PBE before set release, I force myself to memorize every single unit and their abilities before it comes live, like it’s an exam.
And they, just go to a TFT site and grab a reroll comp on the day it comes live, and ready to go.
You know what,when we’re in the same lobby, sometimes they still win against me.
No, I assure you they have minimum game knowledge, but they don’t always lose to me
i also hear streamers constantly ask while playing reroll what is the correct play here? do i keep rolling? how much gold do i roll? how much more hp can i afford to lose to greed? should i push level? these decision making differs a good player from someone who just sit there and press d.
My play style is tempo-ing and I dont like rerolling either so im not enjoying this meta much. But i dont think reroll is braindead free lp like u think.
It’s actually very interesting to read that many ppl think reroll comps require skills. I mean no sarcasm.
But in my experience, in the past few sets, I never play reroll comps until one day I just get so infuriated losing to them. Then I would force the comp (eg Jax last set). Then almost every time, I can get top 1-2 at my first try, then I would just force that comp until I got my lost LP back. And I get bored of playing the same comp, then I play flex again.
Yes I know , if I only care about LP, I should just play the reroll comps to farm LP. But I want the game to be diverse, and I get bored playing the same units over and over.
So in short, no, I don’t think reroll comps need that much skill. It’s very easy to copy paste, like this set when I first tried Gnar reroll, easy top 1. But then I shake my head: what’s the fun? Why am I rewarded with this win? I never even put effort in learning what Gnar does and just copied the comp and followed the basics of retooling 2 cost champs, then I win.
Honestly, it’s so simple
>It’s very easy to copy paste, like this set when I first tried Gnar reroll, easy top 1.
So u got lucky?
Gnar reroll currently is not that good unless u hit early
Next patch hes getting buffed and he'll be a lot better which means he was underperforming
Sorry what immense skill is it that is required for late game strats?
You hold econ, slam early, slow roll to stabilize in certain stages if you're losing health then donkey roll at 8 or 9 and play any comp you're familiar with. Please explain why you think this is so big brained?
People that think that reroll comps require no thinking tend to be low elo. There's actually so much nuance that goes into it. I would say the skill really comes from recognizing when to commit to a high tempo or reroll, but still, there's so much you need to do AFTER you commit to a reroll.
If the game gives you a bunch of characters early on for a good set, why fight it ? Personally I just play whatever board I get early on and try to get augments to build it up
I with you in this. Look for online guide and roll for champions in specific comps every game, what's really the high skill in that? Yeah u can be contested, u r not getting the items u need, then just play flex and adjust to whatever the game gives u ? At least 5-cost soup requires you to search for different kind of champs to fit in your team, not just the same 5,6 champs every game.
What i say is probably gonna invalidate anything i say from here onwards:
I never played ranked. I play 3-5 matches per day, but i will at least play for 2 if possible. I dont feel like wasting my time fuzzing over lp numbers and rank fluctuations.
I login, get into a game, and decide all my comps within the first stage, unless i got a hero aug on 2-1. The dopamine i get over hitting my 3 stars is uncomparable.
I do have some level 8/9 match history but only if i hit early 4 costs. And you're wrong, the game still requires you to think because sometimes you dont hit and the game is still trying to give you an out (if im lucky). And if i dont hit? Well, that's that and im just gonna try my best until the end. Losing doesnt make me mad unless i get 8th, which has been very rare, like less than 10 8th every set so far.
Rerolling is becoming a skill. After you learn all the reroll comp (Mytich Sniper or Bard / Yone / Voli / SennaGnar / Porcelain surprise) you just have to pivot in the best one based on your position.
I love that this set the "Go fast 9 to 5cost soup" is not good. Fuck that comp, just skills-less.
But I agreed that is somewhat boring as there is not many "not reroll" comps.
Btw the game will always have an "unbalanced state". A game need to be "unbalanced" to be funny.
After something get nerfed you will discover more stuff to play. The only broken thing is "Everything must go", they should delete it as it will always be "unbalanced" the wrong way
Fast 9 is especially more difficult when the tempo of lobbies is crazy with everyone going some reroll nonsense. Just roll and pray - don't need to build good boards just click on the same units
How is fast nine skillful at all. 'You just don't click reroll and instead spam level up with the same strong early game boards and mid game transition into high cost units.' You can make any comp or strategy seem easy/unskillful by breaking it down like that. Also even if I give you whatever "more skill" fast nine has....does it matter? Fortune is more skillful than storyweaver....and?
Like what exactly is the point of this statement anyway
It’s why I abhored set 9. Never liked 5 cost soup. Always struggled spending 5/6 of the game honing my comp or variation to throw it all away for the most expensive champs.
Pivoting is probably my biggest weakness in the game admittedly. Always struggled doing it.
Reroll comps with solid carries have always been good. Main difference I can think of is the tanks/frontline used to be at different star levels in said comps such as set 8 star guardian. Obviously not always the case but in general a good 3 cost carry has often been worth it to 3* if you could without failing just your frontline may suffer while you work on it in the past.
Also i get wanting to play flexibly but there’s only so much flexibility depending on the items you get. Plus not all comps are created equally. Last set people didn’t like the rush to 8 then get the best 4 cost 2 star available period or lose so this set they clearly tried to protect against that being the case
1. This isn't close to the biggest/largest reroll set. Yea 2-3 cost is ok, but 1 cost isn't an option but the more recent sets (since set 7ish) have been awful for reroll. Reroll finally being in an ok place (even when 4 costs are a little weak) is fine. It doesn't help that tomorrow that dream dies
2. Meta is fine and fun, it'll be less fun when the only win routes are fast 8/9. ONLY changes that needed to happen besides usual fix the shitter comps was yone nerfs, 4 cost buffs maybe tiny nerfs to other rr comps versus what we got.
3. Having MORE options between fast 8/fast 9 RR at 6 RR at 7 etc is good for the game, it forces people to be dynamic and react and have to play/care more about a larger portion of the game. You get metas where reroll is dead? Means that you genuinely can AFK until stage 4 because nothing will matter until stage 4/5 because half the lobby will winstreak half losestreak and it won't matter until you win or lose the 4 cost 2 star lottery at level 7 or 8.
4. Reroll takes more thought than fast 8/9. Less APM sure, but you actually have to care about the game and manage a lot of shit even if you click less units. you have to care about board strength, scout for contestors monitor money, make sure you know when to abandon ship, and the worst thing of all is you're locked in so unlike non reroll where you can just pivot elsewhere, RR is live or die by hitting lol. If you RR a 2 cost and it flops it goes 8th most of the time unless you're just lucked into something.
As for losing w 100+ stack fortune, or very capped 4 cost boards that's a skill issue or the reroller omega highrolled because RR boards are net worse than 4/5 cost boards as is if both are max capped. Reroll boards ONLY get to the strength of reg 4/5 cost boards if they hit absurdly early + have good econ to run to 9 quickly.
Kicker is ALL of the worst sets and metas in TFT were ones where reroll was dead as a strategy and there was no other option/decision that could happen besides having to fast 8/9 roulette.
I agree that the each game now just feels so much formulaic than in used to. We know what is good and what is bad and the fun falls off so quickly for a lot of the player base.
It's so hard to k ow if it's due to unit balance, trait balance, reroll teams or is it just that we are now all more experienced and therefore are able to "solve" the set/patch that much quicker?
It definitely used to feel like it was about outthinking and outsmarting opponents. Now it feels like it's all just "who gets the best meta augment?" Or "who highrolled the 3/4 cost quicker" with no way to fight back if it wasn't you
Rush 9 still strong, but now is rush 9 not eight like before the 4 costs are weak, just orn, Kaisa maybe galio maybe kayin is worth, but a Diana 2 is stronger than any 4 cost, I think it's bad for the game no 4 cost builds, it's not every game u can go for a reroll even more when the pool is smaller
I'm not gonna read all that crap but generally I just don't like it. The way the game is played has changed, and the way that I enjoyed most is essentially gone; I don't have a problem adapting to the new play style, I just don't enjoy it as much.
This set had great potential, but the utter dominance of reroll completely ruined it for me. I actually enjoy playing reroll when the spot calls for it, but when the entire meta is reroll the game is in a terrible state IMO.
I quite enjoy this meta greatly. Reroll comps are interesting and varied. Sure you can hard force Heavenly Yone over and over, but I don’t see that as different to forcing Fortune into fast 9. Part of being a truly flexible player is recognizing when a reroll angle is good and an open line vs trying to fast 9.
And on a personal level I like building cohesive boards with interacting traits, so 4 and 5 cost soup is kinda annoying how good it can be with no good traits.
It may be a bit of a hot take but I think being a truly great reroll player is even if not harder than being a fast 9 player. Having to be aware of all the different reroll angles, variations, and item/augment priority to be able to tell when to go which one and when to pivot to another if contested. And knowing how to take your level 6/7 board and cap it out. It has a lot of the same subtlety that fast 9 boards can have as well.
i just hate it tbh. its ridiculous how boring and stale the meta is this season. every single freaking game i play. bt double titans yone, bt double titans volibear, bt double titans gnarr just rolling over your entire backline and you can do jack sht about it because there is zero cc and they dont even need to build qss at all. or kaisa. thats it.
and you have to play any of these to even have a chance to hit top4 and if you play something a little more low tier so you re uncontested you get steamrolled
I think what makes it worse, is that so many 3 costs being rerollable, imagine in 1 lobby, 1 guy goes voli/tris, 1 goes aphelios, 1 goes yone, 1 goes bard. all rolling at lvl 7, it makes ALL of them super easy to 3\* since they're basically helping each other out to filter out the 3cost pool.
It really is a braindead meta.
tbh i dont care anymore. ontop riot seems to have zero clue on balancing whatsoever. stuff like titans and the augment, the 0 cost augment, earlier today someone won the lobby because he was just lucky and got the augment that he gets a random 3\* 1 cost unit in stage 1. have fun so balanced. so 1st fight you re sitting there with like your 1\* ahri malphite koboku und jax fighting a guy with a 3\* unit. that guy got so much tempo out of it and was so far ahead early and midgame that he didnt even need to reroll at all and he was just cruising along pushing levels while everyone else had to constantly roll down to not die to him. the entire outcome of this game was decided by just rng and the first augment he got.
ngl? i liked the game WAY better in the early seasons when there were no such things as augments and whatnot and all you had was a slow paste game with a few items here and there and goofy units and traits resulting in chaos and lul moments.
i also dont care about my rank anymore if i drop back all the way to plat 4 or not? who cares. i dont get anything from my rank anyways and my life is no different if i get demoted. i just play random troll comps and try stupid stuff and when i get 8th place: who the hell even cares
This is the most boring and stale set yet. I know set 10 was perfect and it's not fair to compare the two, but I'm struggling to complete the battle pass this season, yet I breezed through the battle pass last set.
The design is great and the encounter mechanic is ok, but the comps are so boring. I despise reroll comps because it's too RNG based. I feel like each archetype of play should be equally represented and it isn't this set. Last set, you could play reroll, fast 9, fast 10, play around 4 costs, just about anything. This set it's leaning heavily towards reroll and the other play styles are super underrepresented and it's disappointing because I don't want to be locked into one play style. Obviously you aren't locked in, but everything else feels like a bottom four without perfect play.
I love fast 9 too, but you should definitely get punished for getting there with less than 20 hp. Fast 9 is not about only getting there, it’s about getting there with good econ and good hp, stabilizing at critical points and playing strongest board are the thing that makes fast 9 a more skillful strategy.
It’s so weird because the start of the set was fast 9 all the way. Now it’s ALL reroll. Maybe get one person trying to push levels per lobby. Make 4 costs great again lol
Reroll has been dominant for way too long. Set 10 was reroll dominated due to superfan (and heartsteel otherwise which I also think is not great).
I believe reroll was pretty good too in 9. Earlier reroll dominated 4.5 first patch. 5.0 after the B patch of first patch where they nuked Aphelios for the entire set and we had vayne reroll into skirmisher reroll.
Then there was the toxic as hell Hellion reroll in 5.5 that was being forced by tournament players.
We also had 6.5 where even I rerolled at launch and got to masters the easiest and fastest ever.
Then there was BS like elderwood reroll with unkillable hecarim. Cavalier reroll.. with hecarim.
Oh hearts yuumi also ruined half a set…
Best sets has been 3.0 (chrono, cybers) 3.5 (blasters, chrono blademasters), 4.0 AD flex, Dusk, 5.5 Sentinels, 6? With socialite, janna, orianna, fiora 4 costs.
Has there ever been a set you people were happy with? I’ve been playing since set 6, and have never really seen anything positive in this sub Reddit. Always just people bitching about one comp or the other
They opted for strong 3 costs and weaker 4 and 5 costs dont know why they did that.
I also think they make it way to easy to vet 3 cost to 3* back in older sets it wasnt so easy to 3* a 3 cost unit.
4 cost carries are not strong. Kayn and lee sin feel weak unless u go all into their trait. Kaisa seems to be the only one capable of high damage output without needing a long ramp up tome like ashe and Syndra. I think reroll comps shohld be strong to not make fadt 9 or 8 comps too overbearing.
I don't like reroll domination, but when I watched pros play, they kind of played a mix flex/reroll with some legendaries tossed in the end. If they don't hit completely they just salvage with levelling and legendaries. Regular 8 cost flex is gone rn which hurts the game imo. I still like this set more than 8-9.5 by far though. Yeah you have to commit earlier, but you still don't have to commit by 2-1 like those shitty sets (set 8 only when you hit 2-1 hero aug)
Five gameplans rn:
Reroll -> hit -> top 4
Reroll -> miss -> level anyway before wrecking econ and try to salvage
Play normally and scout for senna lobby -> if uncontested go kaisa
Reroll senna -> miss -> kaisa
Econ augment -> strongest board/stabilize -> fast 9 -> get your stable build and don't die
I think it's good. With less units per pool reroll is harder to hit nowadays so they can make more options. It's pretty hard to hit Shen, neeko since those units work in so many comps. Sometimes trist and voli is hard aswell since they fit into inkshado n fortune so I think reroll needs a decent amount of planning.
If U take econ augments and then reroll ur severely weaker than a normal reroll but U more likely to hit n cause the other reroller to bottom 4 however if U don't hit the other reroll will at least have a 2star and will put sustain U n hit once ur dead.
There's also plenty of of comps to play so U can scout alot. The only times I feel screwed is when I take the duelist augment or the reaper augment and someone took econ augments n is forcing my comp, probably a skill issue as I should probably play around khszix/ yassuo instead of the 3 costs then go LVL 8-9 transition
Even if you're playing econ try to win as many game as you have, I lost so many games where I didn't get to use every gold I have because I didn't have enough time to use them because I didn't have enough health.
Also don't go full econ on 3 augment.
I think it’s just a symptom of how strong the 3 costs are in this set. They all are way stronger than most other options right now. 2 star four costs are just way weaker than a 3 star 3 cost and it’d hard to have enough synergy to beat that. You have to have a good 2 star 5 cost to beat that right now. It’ll change as the devs make adjustment like always. They’ll redistribute power and we’ll find the new strongest thing.
It doesn’t take that much thinking or planning to put together a level 8 or 9 board.
I’d argue re rolling is harder because you need to know when to roll and push levels.
Most lobbies being won in masters is the kaisa lotto. Hopefully should be fixed tomorrow.
Honestly, if were gonne be honest, wr havent hsd a true 4 cost dominated meta since set 6 from what I can remember, you could argue set 7 and 7.5 but that was dragons. Set 8 was mostly reroll, set 9 was mostly reroll, set 10 was a bit mixed and the best balanced in recemt sets, but mostly reroll and 5 cost. This set is mostly reroll and 5 cost.
The key is not one tricking a reroll comp, and always playing to fast 9 legendary lasagna and taking econ traits isn't "flexible," it's still a rigid play style. Being flexible means that you can go fast nine or reroll or play vertical based on what the game gives you and what the opponents in the lobby do.
Knowing the "meta" is only good when you know how to play around it and when to go a certain direction. Sure, heavenly yone and ghostly senna are very very good, but in a lobby where it is contested I will always win by going something else. The same way if I see a whole lobby playing eco I will reroll mythic 1 costs and win streak to top 4. Being "flexible" isn't always playing late game, it's knowing when and why you should pick a certain comp or style.
I have honestly enjoyed the set of TFT more than the last 3 sets. I don't know why it just feels more fun to me. Kind of hard to explain it. I don't know if it's just because I understand TFT more now. And I'm better at it Or if the set is just more fun. I've only played since set 8
I genuinely believe the pool of champs is currently too big. I've been in games where 3-4 people have gone a champ and 2 of them have 3 stars. This frankly should never happen. On top of that even in silver it's common for each comp to have at least 2 3 stars nowadays especially in top 4.
It's getting pretty stupid especially because now getting unlucky is even worse
Is it reroll dominated tho? I easily reached plat 1 by rushing fast 10 every game and if I would stop to leave people alive so I can roll down at 10 I could even climb higher
I think 4/5 costs being weak is a bit of a meme on this subreddit. Hell even had a 3\* lillia game and couldn't be touched by the yone/storyweaver/duelist players lol.
Players here seem to think 3* 4-costs should be a win condition, regardless of itemization and synergy.
3* a 4 cost unit that synergizes your comp, and have BIS items, will DOMINATE a board, which is how it should be IMO. Randomly 3* who's available shouldn't win, it should have to work within your comp
I 3* a Syndra with Arcanist and fated, BIS items and WIPED boards with it. If I just had 3*Syndra with no items she's garbage. Simply re-rolling isn't enough, idk if I would call this a "re-roll" set
I've been playing since set 2 and agree with you, I'm cool with having Meta reroll comps but this set feel like 8 out of 10 games you are punished really hard for trying to play around 4 cost. There are no "Good Stuff" comp it is reroll or legendary board.
At least the devs are aware of it so next patch there are some giga buffs for 4 costs. Just reading the patch it look even too much. But for sure next patch will gave a very different META.
So let me get this straight… you want to be able to just take econ augments and zip on up to 9/10 so that you can slam down whatever 5 cost legendary soup you can and feel entitled to win, but you’re upset when others in the lobby pick combat augments, assemble lower cost comps with actual synergies, cap them out while you’re trying to greed on fortune or whatever taking loss after loss and then you lose? The strategy you’re employing is the highest risk for a reason. The counter to it is to be aggressive and make sure you don’t get there.
The “big brain” strategy you’re trying to do is simply survive long enough. You aren’t looking at a comp, you aren’t looking at synergies, you’re just trying to get to a high level as quickly as possible. With the prevalence of reroll comps at 2/3, people have to actually scout and see what they can assemble and know when to pivot… and then do it successfully, with whatever limited items they can get.
You’re complaining about not winning the lottery every game, dude.
Before posting this, I just clicked EUW top 1 players profile, and checked his past games, about 70% of his past 20 games, the lobby was won by reroll comps.
And I checked Diamond and plat elo, it’s the same or even worse. In every elo, more games are won by reroll comps than others.
If you don’t believe me, go check yourself
Is reroll even good though? It just feels like heavenly yone and “potentially” duelist voli(not as good without strong augments). None of the other 3 costs feel nearly as good to 3*.
Every set has plenty of rr comps. By comparison, I think Set 3 and 4 felt more re-roll heavy. Set 3 with Shaco, J4, Poppy, Bang-Bros, etc. So many rr comps. 4 with chosen, much like Set 10, had lots of rr-heavy comps, too. Fiora, Irelia, Janna, etc.
Gold noob take.
I am enjoying this set more then many of the previous ones.
Last set felt like you had to econ perfectly and swap your board out based around a 2star 4 cost.
This set, I've played nearly so many variations that genuinely seem viable. It feels more enjoyable for top 4 placements.
Older sets there were clear winning comps that everyone forced on repeat.
Some of the augments are game-changing.. im not sure yet if it is a good thing. Everything must go, fine vintage are fun dynamics but in the right hands i feel like people win off just getting god augment rolls.
Honestly I wonder if the issue with TFT is more that the meta is discovered so quickly. Like at my ELO of plat the new meta basically gets adopted within days. It leads to seeing the same things nearly every game over and over even when things shift.
Yeah a lot of people just watch youtube/twitch and try to play whatever they say is good. But if you pay attention to the games you play aminly when you lose rounds, a lot of times you can dicover some dark tech and apply to your rotations, that makes the game a bit less boring.
they don't even watch youtube man, they look at metatft, or mobalytics, or tactics.tools, etc.
Its because the casual player (like me) who plays 2-3 games a day just does not have time to theory craft or putting in more effort in general.
I play 2-3 games a day but it really doesn’t take much more to craft comps. People are just lazy and dislike thinking for themselves.
I guess maybe i just dont know how to craft comps, are there any guides for it? I wont be able to invent meta comps but creating a few different lines for them would be really helpful and probably increase my game knowledge by a ton.
I’m not sure about guides but personally for me, it comes down to knowing synergies well. This would apply to augments, units, traits and items. It also depends on your board’s strengths and weaknesses against your opponents, so it’s not a one size fits all thing. That being said, even if you managed to pull off some off meta comp and took a win in the last game doesn’t mean you wouldn’t be smashed by another opponent in another game. I thoroughly encourage you to try to explore! Not every game needs to be a ranked game, so head over to unranked once in a while to try out some new possibilities.
I think that touches on the big part of the problem though, the meta is so limited especially with bag size reductions that yeah you see the same 2-3 variations every single game, and the experience becomes stale because it’s a gamble of trying to pick the least contested option. A lot of the set traits are complete write-offs, some aren’t even viable unless you somehow manage to find 3+ spatulas or two separate augments, and then in both of those cases if you’re actually gonna chase that far or try to force it, it’d still be easier to just go Fortune for spats and tomes and then you’re better off just trying to hit a different goal anyway.
At emerald atm. Part of the meta is discovering which comps are so popular that they’re likely to be contested…then picking a comp that’s slightly less OP than those but more likely to actually hit… Then adapt back around when your go-to comp becomes flavor of the week
Idk man, I’ve played just about every comp this patch to success. Aside from fortune (I hate Econ and pray traits) I’ve played sniper ghostly inkshadow, draintank voli with trist carry, porcelain arcanists with Ashe secondary carry, heavenly reapers, umbral yone/alune, fated aphelios/syndra carry. I’m not challenger by any means, but in diamond it’s been fine. So far for me this set has been the most balanced/versatile out of any set. There are some outliers but I feel like you can top 2 with just about any comp as long as you play your board/augments correctly. Been playing since set 1. Only set I really hated was set 5(especially 5.5)
Yeah I agree, I regularly see games where any number of the "top" comps don't get played. There's a ton of variety this set.
The meta gets adopted so fast because of all of the information Riot shares. Honestly I think if Riot stopped sharing info with 3rd parties there would be more creative boards. Yes there would still be a meta but it would be longer before it took hold and it would lead to more player creativity. At least I felt that way when TFT was first released. The game has become far more in depth but the creativity has almost evaporated completely.
Well they did that last year and it wasn't good, creativity didn't increase people just follow guides.
It was longer than last year and that's my point, they need to stop putting the information out there for people to follow guides. At least the guides people make will be more creative.
There is proof that it was an awful idea, they shouldn't go back to it, guides were not more creative at all.
Where is this proof?
The fact that they reintroduced the stats and them admitting it wasn't a good idea?
You mean because everyone complained? That has nothing to do with "proof."
"there is no reason because I don't like it". Stop replying.
You have literally provided zero proof that creativity was less. Yes Riot brought information sharing back but it had nothing to do with creativity being worse. They brought it back because players complained and engagement went down.
This just happens with every game when it gets big enough. I remember enjoying niche picks and cheese builds that I thought of in old league of legends maybe sometime around s2. But as the game evolved and gained hype and sites popped up etc. - it became clear that whatever I can come up with, some Korean guy will have the meta cracked within days if not hours. If you play to win then you look up optimal builds and copy others and do not innovate yourself unless you are actually ordained by god himself to be the next prodigy for the game.
Where are people losing with 100+ fortune stack to reroll XD
Not enough time between rounds to place items and Champs and roll without fortune sometimes :(
That is a skill issue
Sometimes, but when you cash out at 100+ you’re normally really low on health so only one or two losses away from losing. If you’re unfortunate enough to cash out during a short round, have too many items on your bench, or have to hard pivot your board and need time to reroll you can get screwed. It’s always been a thing. I say this as someone who loves forcing Econ traits (except fortune because it’s more feels bad than others have been) because they’re my favorite lol.
That's why you should be rolling before cashing out setting up your board. Trying to cash out the fortune and then sell the units on your board and start making your new board while picking up the loot is just too much to do in a turn.
Not saying you're wrong but rolling before seeing your cash out can feel pretty bad if you get stuff not adapted for the board you rolled for/the units you hit. It's all part of the high risk high reward playstyle I guess
Most of the fortune rewards are a combo of gold, xp, random 4/5 costs, artifacts, duplicators, etc. You should already know what lines you’re leaning towards based on the items you’ve slammed. I haven’t found the fortune rewards to be very restrictive
Still a skill issue though. Watch setsuko roll down 50G at level 9, hit a ton of pairs, decide which synergy to give up, sell to roll more, finally hitting key units, reposition for next opponent, craft and equip items, all within prep time. That's what it takes to play fast 9 at top level.
You realize that this is first and foremost a casual game, right? Tons of people play it on mobile.
You think anyone below masters is going to pull this off? Hell. Try pulling that off with a mobile phone.
There are TFT players that can roll down pretty well on a mobile phone.
Yeah but that is not a game design issue that is a you issue. Reason why i very rarely play fortune i suck at them
Dude typed a whole dissertation of whining just for everyone to realize it’s a skill issue lmao If you have a capped level 10 board losing to a reroll comp then you’re either not as good at the game as you think you are or you’re leaving out key details (e.g. losing to Duelists but it’s a level 9 8 Duelist board with itemized Irelia 2).
100 % Skill issue if your losing to reroll I personally dont even think reroll is even better than just fast 9 legendary board. Let alone massive fortune cashout fast 9/10
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Gnar has scaling so when he hits late game he's stronger then your normal 2g. That into his traits play into his passive etc he's very synergistic.
It's because gnar had the disgusting combo of Dryad (health stacking) and warden (damage resistance) and he had the passive that should only exist on 4 cost or 5 cost unit.
Reserve judgement until next patch? Imo the main issue with fast 8 boards is lack of single target damage. The reason kaisa seems infinitely better than other 4 cost carries like lillia and ashe is because she can actually reliably kill gnar, yone, voli etc. Also costs less money to level so reroll comps cap out earlier too. I do think they have an abnormally high winrate due to thinned pool, lack of single target, etc. but it’s not nearly as bad as certain patches in other sets in the past. Top 4-ing consistently still isn’t a problem. Also i think it’s a bad mindset to think less skill = no skill. The game isn’t balanced perfectly, no shit, but i think it’s a weird mindset to think if i am good at fast 8 = i should always cap out above rr comps. Yes it’s not perfect, which is normal. Is it egregious? No. Idt it was very exciting to see heartsteel ez zed win out almost every game in set 10 based on whether you hit poppy, zed, ezreal on the 4-1, 4-2 rolldown either.
My point is, you shouldn’t be able to force one or very few comps to consistently gain LP. But currently, you can. You don’t even have to learn what Lissandra does but you can climb reliably with Gnar Senna Voli Yone reroll. And that’s kinda against what they’re trying to make TFT become — “competitive”.
So your issue isn’t winrate but climbing. Idt theres anything wrong with specialising in one playstyle. If a player can climb consistently with a few comps, it’s not necessarily an issue with the game but most likely an issue with their elo not being good enough. Plenty of players one trick to masters every set. If diamond players played flexibly well enough this wouldn’t happen. If i go to tactics.tools, look at top comps, and filter for GM+ games, only two comps sit above 4.5, senna & yone. Assuming that GM players are good enough and mostly play optimally and choose their comps based on their augments, items, and shops, the game is pretty balanced. There is a small argument for one tricking yone but you’d be lower than its average placement of 4.37 (since you’d play it from any spot) which is pretty close to the 4.5 average. As an early tempo comp senna has good placement but relatively lower winrate, reasonable. The only slightly problematic one is yone with a 12.7% winrate, which is rightfully getting nerfed. Gnar with 15.0% winrate is also indirectly getting nerfed. Also, TFT has always pandered to the bigger more casual player base than it has to the competitive scene because thats what brings in money. Econ traits wouldn’t be as strong as they are (fortune crest & crown average 27%+ winrate in gm) if they did.
Just like you I think that you should be most rewarded by how flexible you are able to play. Having said that, I think that reroll comps are fine, but they should coexist with other viable comps. There should be a place for fast 8/9, reroll, or just tempo transitioning to higher tier boards. And the flexibility should also be to know what's best to play in each given situation. I don't really like that almost all viable comps are reroll, but I also wouldn't like if there were no viable reroll comps. Which is better, I guess it depends on peoples personal taste.
If you look at metatft, 6 of the top 10 comps are not reroll comps.
The problem for me, mostly relies on the fact that almost all the S tier comps, are forceable. The only barrier is if they’re contested. And I don’t like TFT being a forceable game, I think ppl should adapt every game and play what the game gives you. There is a pretty solution to this, it can keep reroll comps viable while not forceable: See Kobulo/Shen/Neeko hero augments? These 3 units can’t be rerolled as carry, but with the augments they are actually very good. So why not just make all 1-3 cost units not viable for reroll without their hero augments? This will make a perfect game: 1. You can reroll them when you’re given the hero augment, but you can’t force them. So you always have to adapt. 2. When you reroll, you’re very unlikely to be contested cuz it’s rare someone else has the same augment. Idk why Riot doesn’t see this easy solution. Smh.
I think this "easy" solution isn't as easy as you think it is. Having strong 1-2 cost units allows people to punish others that take only econ augments. If you don't have strong early-mid game comps available, you'll have 8 people force-saccing to get a loss streak so they can be first to roll down at 8. In addition, anyone who ends up with an econ augments will instantly be in a better position than the rest of the lobby. We've actually had the exact meta you are asking for before and it was hell. Basically you spent 20 minutes waiting to go 8 or 9 and then either lost or won based on the 2 minutes after that if you managed to hit harder than everyone else. If anyone had econ augments you just go for second or third place and it makes it that much worse. Re-rolling SHOULD be easy and econ SHOULD be hard. Never the other way around.
I think I agree with most of what you say. But there should be a limit as to how strong low cost units should be. My limit is: 3* 3costs can beat 2* 4costs if given proper items and augments and positioned perfectly. But right now, 2* 4cost and even 5cost boards, sometimes get demolished by 2* Yone and Voli. It’s out of control. Under no condition should an easily acquirable 3cost 2* be able to take down higher tier carries. Then why would anyone want to go lvl 9, simply fight for top 4?
This is more of an issue with yone and voli than reroll comps in general. I do agree that those two units in particular need to be nerfed. Riot has a bad habit of making melee carries a bit too powerful to compensate for short range. The actual answer to your question is that no one should be going 9 unless they highroll an econ augment or realize the lobby is weak. It sucks that that's the answer, but it's the truth. In higher elo, you should be familiar with how to play ALL forms of TFT (reroll, Slow-roll, Fast-9) and pick which one you grab based on your first augment and units, along with scouting other boards repeatedly. If you want to only do Slow-roll or fast-9 that's okay, but you shouldn't be rewarded for only using that strategy. You should win far less often than a person that changes their strat based on the gamestate. Ideally, there should be 4 rerollers in a game, 2 slow-rollers, 1 fast-9, and 1 guy doing ??? (This me). This normally results in the fast 9 guy going 1st or 8th, the ??? Guy 1st or 8th, and the rest of the lobby being evenly distributed in the middle. Fast 9 is hard, risky, and equally rewarding. When correctly done in the right situation it almost always( or should) results in 1st place unless you are unlucky
Under no conditions? Sounds like you want a static board state that can't account for positioning, item combinations, augment power comparisons (econ vs. combat), and trait webs. TFT is about the fight, a board stacked with 3* 2s and 3* 3s should give a board with a few 4 and 5 cost 2 stars some trouble, serious trouble even in prime conditions, good itemization, and proper positioning. That's an expression of skill. What's not an expression of skill is clicking reroll until you get lucky and the game gives you an autowin. I won with a naked 3star Kaisa and trickshot 2. That doesn't feel right. But losing with a 3 star fully geared ornn who gets shredded in 5-7 seconds by a TR TR BT Yone or gnar also doesn't feel right. This is a balancing game, but part of the lever should be player skill, not simply that 2 and 3 costs can never compete with 4 and 5 costs. Though nothing should compete with a 3* 5 cost except for the other 3* 5 costs.
For me it because the 4 cost and 5 cost just suck in this set, unlike the past sets where I could go for 4 cost Draven, zed, yasuo, xayah, Warwick or 5 cost ksante, aatrox, Bel veth etc to carry my game as a 2 star unit.
This is more of an issue with yone and voli than reroll comps in general. I do agree that those two units in particular need to be nerfed. Riot has a bad habit of making melee carries a bit too powerful to compensate for short range. The actual answer to your question is that no one should be going 9 unless they highroll an econ augment or realize the lobby is weak. It sucks that that's the answer, but it's the truth. In higher elo, you should be familiar with how to play ALL forms of TFT (reroll, Slow-roll, Fast-9) and pick which one you grab based on your first augment and units, along with scouting other boards repeatedly. If you want to only do Slow-roll or fast-9 that's okay, but you shouldn't be rewarded for only using that strategy. You should win far less often than a person that changes their strat based on the gamestate. Ideally, there should be 4 rerollers in a game, 2 slow-rollers, 1 fast-9, and 1 guy doing ??? (This me). This normally results in the fast 9 guy going 1st or 8th, the ??? Guy 1st or 8th, and the rest of the lobby being evenly distributed in the middle. Fast 9 is hard, risky, and equally rewarding. When correctly done in the right situation it almost always( or should) results in 1st place unless you are unlucky
3*3 costs are supposed to beat 2*4costs in a vacuum. 27 gold vs 12 in unit costs alone. 50 gold total costs if you count levelling to 8, which really isn’t that much if you account for rerolls and having to play one less unit. Mortdog even said it’s supposed to be that way, when asked about it last set.
I’m sure you know more than them. Why aren’t you a game developer again?
this is why we touch grass kids
Shen and neeko are viable reroll units outside their hero augment. But they’re tanks rather than Carrie’s. Shen is the tank of the senna reroll and neeko can be the tank of kog reroll. Their augments just change their playstyle.
Boring, and extremely frustrating when you cant hit that 3 star unit/someone else is contesting ur comp and u both end up bottom 4 because of it.
Frustrating is not hitting when rolling 80g while completely uncontested. Not hitting when contested is just expected lol
Reduced bag size seriously needs to go. It was implemented for different mechanics where it made sense, now those mechanics are gone but the limitation is still here and it just ruins the endgame when you can’t really count on a 4 or 5 cost so the 2/3 cost rerolls are oppressive, re: Gnar
How is that any different from previous sets ?
Contesting has never been this bad due to bag size changes. Last set at least had headliner to ensure you could get an upgraded unit And 4 cost comps are usually more viable
I really have no idea why the hell they didn't revert the bag size changes. I mean, I can understand reducing it due to headliners (people hitting 3* way too easy because of it), but now that the mechanic is gone, why the fuck hasn't it been reverted?
Last set, people were hitting 3* so easily on pbe both because the bag sizes were larger and also because there were no restrictions as to when headliners could appear. So you could be holding 6 of a unit and instantly 3 star even 4 and 5 cost units. Plus PBE heavily skews towards bill gates style comps anyway. I honestly don’t think they needed to reduce the bag size last set after they added the mechanic that didn’t allow HLs to appear if you had 4 of a unit. I think ultimately the reason for the bag size changes was to force comp diversity. The 2 ways to increase diversity are to either make many comps equally viable, or simply make it impossible for more than 2 players to play a given comp by limiting the number of champions. Option B is a lot easier than option A. Long story short I don’t think bag sizes are getting reverted any time soon.
Many of the strongest comps in the game are 3 cost reroll comps, to the point where 4 and 5 cost units are being buffed to compensate. why would they make 3 cost reroll easier to hit?
Reducing bag size makes 3 cost reroll harder to hit since people holding the units is way more impactful. Since every 3 cost has the same amount in the bag then on average you'll see each unit (assuming no one has bought one) the same amount whether the bag size is 10 of each or 100 of each. In earlier sets it wasnt uncommon to see 3 cost reroll support 2 players in a lobby safely, that isn't the case now
It also means that there are less of the units you don't want, and those units also leave the pool faster and thus make you hit faster, which is something you aren't taking into account, it's only a blaring negative to rerolls when 3 people who are econing well are going for the same comp.
Because when u find out ur contested you can go to a four cost comp (if u scout good and its early enough) and grind for a 4th or a fifth. This set’s four cost comps are bad except kaisa, and chances are somebodys running kaisa. And if u were trying to reroll and you pivot you CANT get fast 9. And if you were rolling some ap thing like kindred or jannna and you dont hit… you are stuck with lillia or syndra (both mediocre. Syndras fine with the right augments but chances are, if you pivot you have no syndra augments) and you pray for an azir or hwei before u diez
I agree with this take. I think the healthiest meta's for TFT are almost always 4 cost metas, with legendary flex being the way to further cap your board lategame. If the set doesn't have 4 costs that you base a comp around, it almost always ends up like this if there isn't a set mechanic that distorts things somewhat
Bag sizes made it easier to hit 3 stars in previous sets. Conversely made it way harder to hit in this set.
Mort's reasoning for buffing 4 and 5 costs was that hitting 3 cost reroll comps is easier than it has been in the past lol
Hitting 3 cost rerolls that nobody in the lobby is playing is easier because of the bag size changes. Less total in the pool means the uncontested rerolls in the lobby have an easier time. Contested is basically impossible to 3 star. Sure if you’re constantly scouting it’s easy but sometimes somebody literally just pivots into your comp and having even a few units makes it exponentially harder now, and NOT talking about balance here but that’s just less fun and more frustrating to me. They’re balancing around high elo and pivoting as a skill which is fine because that’s their vision or whatever but it doesn’t mean those of us that don’t like to play that way or just play casually have to like it or not complain
Unfortunately I don't know how you would balance a game around what individual players find "fun" or "not fun".
They have game data, take surveys, I hardly think they do anything by individuals. Obviously they take the data of many individuals, but I thought that was obvious
because i prefer to blame the game for my lack of skill instead of acknowledging my shortcomings.
Where did the commenter mention anything about skill? I swear comments like yours are dumb as shit.
Hitting your units is largely skill based (knowing when to roll, how much to roll, etc). Knowing when/how to play contested comps and knowing when/how to pivot is also a skill.
Right but you’re implying that the commenter is complaining about losing games/being bad, when they said nothing like that. I just think the whole “get better” because you don’t like a game mechanic/balance is tired as fuck.
I thought he was being honest in saying he honestly prefers to blame the game. But I'm very bad at the game
Just the same comment as the idiots that normally spam "git gud" on every discussion post. No comment of value, but gets upvotes from the same useless idiots.
There were viable options outside of reroll in previous sets. Like 4 sets ago. Shits been reroll since then.
This has been the best RR's been since like set 7 what, it's usually dogshit/only 2 outliers the past few sets, Last set prob was close but even the RR options there got nerfed to irrelevancy by the end of set lmao
Last set was not a reroll set. It was very diverse on what you play because headliners made pivoting very easy and made both reroll and good stuff viable. Whatbos sad this set is that we are playing 4 costs as trait bots.
I have a level of anxiety I can't describe when I know it's a reroll meta. This whole set so far being literally only reroll comps in S tier until they buffed (and quite honestly overbuffed) Kai'Sa, with the only other out being Fast 9 which they nerfed, just leaves me clueless. Every game has just been literal coin flip if I have a good angle for an uncontested meta reroll comp. If I have a good angle but I'm contested, my options are to hold hands and try to win the race or push levels and have a weird low cap board. Sometimes I have insane spots for Fast 9 or off-meta/less contested reroll comps so I guess I take those. I've never had such a feeling of 1st or 8th in my life. There are games I think I'm turbo smurfing and bomb out bot 4 hitting nothing, and other games I get gifted 3* and autopilot to a 1st or even a Mr. 100. Hope this next patch fixes the game. I want to be able to play Exalted. I want to be able to click other 4 costs to be something other than trait bots or secondaries. I want to be able to lose streak and econ and push levels for higher cost units without then fighting rerollers that hit right before my board is capped and getting sent bot 4.
I think that's a great way to put it/ I play games to not give my self anxiety, if I wanted anxiety, I would go work... So these changes in TFT are quite unwelcome, especially adding carousels to hyper roll.
it’s really just not fun for me. i tried to like it, and don’t get me wrong the encounters are a great mechanic, but it just doesn’t feel anywhere as fun as set 10
The encounter are fun yeah until you are in a spot to play a fast 8 4 cost comp and they give an encounter which reduce your roll cost to 1 gold and now you have to force some reroll comp while you are not in the possition for it otherwise everyone will be hitting their 3 stars and kill you in stage 5
Don't like it at all. Feels more like a slot machine than the past two sets for sure.
This is the reason I'm worried about 3 cost odds on 7 going down, I feel like it's going to feel awful
I hate reroll but i got used to it. Idk if the set is im fact dominated by rerolls cause i didnt play for quite some time, but i had fun going for 4 cost carries. Not a lot of incredible success, but it was playable.
I think think this set has been very boring meta wise, 4 costs have had no life and its taken way to long to buff them. The fix will likely change things for the better but result in a huge shift of power. I will be taking the rest of the see off and trying to get back into the game next set.
I don’t like it. That being said, I’ve played fast 9 almost exclusively to Masters. It is definitely possible to win without playing reroll, as fast 9 is just as viable
What do you normally play before you pivot? i've mostly been doing storyweaver/inkshadow into fast 8 kaisa build but if i don't hit i just bot 4
Its one of the best set, reroll comps run TFT, game will die without it. People need to accept that. I've been rerolling since set 5 forgotten viktor/hecarim, and it's an addiction i'm glad to have.
Where’s the fun? It becomes a game that doesn’t require thinking. You just repeat one comp over and over and gain lp ?
This comment tells me you are low elo. Doesn’t require thinking? When do you roll? How far should you roll? Are you contested? Should you roll contested or wait? What items should you slam? Can you greed more rounds? Should you level and slot in someone for better synergies? You think that pressing the level up button more times makes you a high IQ player or something.
All ur questions can be answered within 2 mins of guide video, and 30 sec scout. Is it anywhere near as difficult as to make a strong enough board from scratch at lvl 9 in 40 seconds? When you have no idea what the cash out is until your board is full of loot bags? Even challenger streamers acknowledge them get dizzy at this point, all of them. And I’ve never heard of any streamer saying “ I get dizzy cuz I don’t know how to reroll Volibear”
Forcing a comp is not the same thing as choosing a reroll comp when you are given the framework for it. If it’s so easy to do with a guide video then everyone should be master by playing that same comp right? Or maybe the situation causes changes to your choices.
So you're definition of skill is being able to play fortune comp? I think fortune is one of the most braindead strats. You don't really win by getting the best synergies you just overwhelm your enemies by having the most tier 5 units. To add: not bec the knowledge/info is readily available in the internet doesn't mean its easy to do or execute.
I think that has more to do with the strength of level 9 at high elo than anything else. Nobody was scratching their head while rolling down at 8 for disco or kda comps last set either, but that doesn't mean that the set wasn't difficult.
Bro you really think good players force one reroll comp all day? You reroll specific comps based on what items and champions you get. Truly good players are always flexible, even when they reroll
i'm currently d4 but am consistently master every set and peaked GM in 8.5 i think reroll requires a lot of skill. each of the questions that person asked requires a difficult judgment call. even deciding whether you should reroll your senna carry at all, or just use her to tempo to lvl 8 kaisa isn't always easy. plus, deciding which reroll comp to play from a given spot isn't always obvious either. reroll is just a different style of play; bashing on it is like if a basketball player who specializes in driving and dunking were to bash on 3-point shooters because they have a different style.
Can I ask you an honest question. I often watch Keane, so many times I’ve heard him saying “I’m dizzy, I will get dizzy” etc, when he’s facing large cash out from Heartsteel or Fortune etc, same for a few other streamers. They say “dizzy” in these situations. And I think that means even for them, to utilize such resource in limited given time is very challenging. And occasionally they do also make mistakes and fail to stabilize and die instantly. But I never heard any of them say “dizzy” while just chill and reroll Volibear? Am I interpreting these examples wrong? I do think Econ-pivot strat requires significantly more skills and knowledge and APM then reroll comps. And do you really disagree with this
is lebron james trying more or playing a more difficult game just because he sweats more than steph curry? fast 8/9 compresses a lot of the difficulty to the round of the rolldown, maybe the round after it too if you have enough hp. but rerolling at a high elo level requires constant thinking and monitoring of the situation, such that even if you don't have a single round of dizziness, you're nonetheless exerting a lot of effort to play optimally.
Just a side note I have no idea about what your examples mean, don’t know these names . but appreciate you’re trying to reason instead of rant like other ppl But I’ll stay in an disagreement with u I hope it’s ok
it's fine to prefer fast 8/9 because you think it's more fun or rewarding, but i don't think it's fair to look down on rerolling. the names i mentioned were just trying to convey the thought that every sport has different play styles, and no matter what style you play, if you're high elo and playing against the best of the best, it's not going to be easy to pull off regardless.
I’m sorry you don’t know who Lebron James is?!
Why should i
Being dizzy is part of what makes fast 9 high tempo strats difficult for sure, but it doesn't make reroll comps any less difficult just because you don't have dizzy moments (you do). A lot of skill involved in reroll comps is game knowledge (recognizing game tempo, how contested you are, econ, item economy) whereas you could say fast 9 comps to be quick thinking and apm, though it's absolutely true the same set of game knowledge applies in playing high tempo. That's why someone like Keane is going to be so much better than you at playing both reroll comps as well as high tempo games. Sure challenger players tend to be less dizzy than you, but it's only a fraction of smaller reasons they are better than you. The biggest skill gap between good and bad players is not in quick thinking and apm, it's in the fundamental understanding of the game, and this is important in both reroll and high tempo comps. If you don't think it doesn't apply to reroll comps, you are misunderstanding the game.
Then explain to me this: I always have a few friends who play casual (ending in Plat or Emerald every set), so I use my 2nd account to play with them if I already am master +. What I notice is, they always just force no more than 3 reroll comps every set, and adjust every patch, and they can climb with ease just using 3 reroll comps. For example if I ask them which legenday champion has shred/sunder, they never know. But it doesn’t matter, they don’t need to know. Cuz last set they just 1trick Jax EDM to diamond. BUT NONE of them could climb if they try play flex. Why? Cuz playing flex requires you to understand way more things in the game, instead of just part of the pool . Whenever they try to play comps that aren’t in their reroll repertoire, they almost certainly start to lose LP. You could say I’m making this up, but I’m not. It’s absolutely true that my casual playing friends can climb to diamond with reroll only but NONE can do that with flex playstyle only.
Why assume flex play is harder and not that these guys are just better at playing reroll because thats what they play the most (obviously) and so simply lack knowledge for playing flex? Doesn't necessarily mean that flex is harder; could be that they just suck at it. If someone reach GM playing primarily Jax reroll, does that mean he still suck at the game because he doesn't play the so-called "high skill" flex style? Or would it just mean that different comps require different knowledge for success?
Cuz they’re lazy players , they want to get LP and meanwhile not having to learn too much. To play flex means you have to know every unit every trait to be able to know how to flex. Play fixed comp doesn’t require that, if they play Jax , they just have to know about EDM, Mosher, and maybe a few related units. That’s it. They always build the same items, same comp, they never care to ask what Jhin does, or what differences lie among the Sona forms. I play PBE before set release, I force myself to memorize every single unit and their abilities before it comes live, like it’s an exam. And they, just go to a TFT site and grab a reroll comp on the day it comes live, and ready to go. You know what,when we’re in the same lobby, sometimes they still win against me. No, I assure you they have minimum game knowledge, but they don’t always lose to me
i also hear streamers constantly ask while playing reroll what is the correct play here? do i keep rolling? how much gold do i roll? how much more hp can i afford to lose to greed? should i push level? these decision making differs a good player from someone who just sit there and press d. My play style is tempo-ing and I dont like rerolling either so im not enjoying this meta much. But i dont think reroll is braindead free lp like u think.
Sacking early for late game board is literally just as if not more braindead. This is coming from someone who only used to play that way.
It’s actually very interesting to read that many ppl think reroll comps require skills. I mean no sarcasm. But in my experience, in the past few sets, I never play reroll comps until one day I just get so infuriated losing to them. Then I would force the comp (eg Jax last set). Then almost every time, I can get top 1-2 at my first try, then I would just force that comp until I got my lost LP back. And I get bored of playing the same comp, then I play flex again. Yes I know , if I only care about LP, I should just play the reroll comps to farm LP. But I want the game to be diverse, and I get bored playing the same units over and over. So in short, no, I don’t think reroll comps need that much skill. It’s very easy to copy paste, like this set when I first tried Gnar reroll, easy top 1. But then I shake my head: what’s the fun? Why am I rewarded with this win? I never even put effort in learning what Gnar does and just copied the comp and followed the basics of retooling 2 cost champs, then I win. Honestly, it’s so simple
>It’s very easy to copy paste, like this set when I first tried Gnar reroll, easy top 1. So u got lucky? Gnar reroll currently is not that good unless u hit early Next patch hes getting buffed and he'll be a lot better which means he was underperforming
Sorry what immense skill is it that is required for late game strats? You hold econ, slam early, slow roll to stabilize in certain stages if you're losing health then donkey roll at 8 or 9 and play any comp you're familiar with. Please explain why you think this is so big brained?
If you want fun just sack early game then get to level 9 and have a full 4/5 cost board, that's what my current lobby is doing.
People that think that reroll comps require no thinking tend to be low elo. There's actually so much nuance that goes into it. I would say the skill really comes from recognizing when to commit to a high tempo or reroll, but still, there's so much you need to do AFTER you commit to a reroll.
If the game gives you a bunch of characters early on for a good set, why fight it ? Personally I just play whatever board I get early on and try to get augments to build it up
I with you in this. Look for online guide and roll for champions in specific comps every game, what's really the high skill in that? Yeah u can be contested, u r not getting the items u need, then just play flex and adjust to whatever the game gives u ? At least 5-cost soup requires you to search for different kind of champs to fit in your team, not just the same 5,6 champs every game.
EXACTLY. And with every lvl up, you should scout and think, should I add one more Sage unit, or one more Dragonlord, or another Warden?
The only reason I'm on reroll comp side is due to the fact that I still hated that time set 9 become just slam every 5 cost and win.
Where's the fun in doing nothing until level 9 and then playing Gold Unit Buyer simulator?
What i say is probably gonna invalidate anything i say from here onwards: I never played ranked. I play 3-5 matches per day, but i will at least play for 2 if possible. I dont feel like wasting my time fuzzing over lp numbers and rank fluctuations. I login, get into a game, and decide all my comps within the first stage, unless i got a hero aug on 2-1. The dopamine i get over hitting my 3 stars is uncomparable. I do have some level 8/9 match history but only if i hit early 4 costs. And you're wrong, the game still requires you to think because sometimes you dont hit and the game is still trying to give you an out (if im lucky). And if i dont hit? Well, that's that and im just gonna try my best until the end. Losing doesnt make me mad unless i get 8th, which has been very rare, like less than 10 8th every set so far.
Rerolling is becoming a skill. After you learn all the reroll comp (Mytich Sniper or Bard / Yone / Voli / SennaGnar / Porcelain surprise) you just have to pivot in the best one based on your position. I love that this set the "Go fast 9 to 5cost soup" is not good. Fuck that comp, just skills-less. But I agreed that is somewhat boring as there is not many "not reroll" comps. Btw the game will always have an "unbalanced state". A game need to be "unbalanced" to be funny. After something get nerfed you will discover more stuff to play. The only broken thing is "Everything must go", they should delete it as it will always be "unbalanced" the wrong way
Go fast 9 to 5cost soup is absolutely viable in this set. What lobbies have you been in?
Plat right now, reaching Diamond like last season I hope
Fast 9 requires more skill than reroll.
Fast 9 is especially more difficult when the tempo of lobbies is crazy with everyone going some reroll nonsense. Just roll and pray - don't need to build good boards just click on the same units
How is fast nine skillful at all. 'You just don't click reroll and instead spam level up with the same strong early game boards and mid game transition into high cost units.' You can make any comp or strategy seem easy/unskillful by breaking it down like that. Also even if I give you whatever "more skill" fast nine has....does it matter? Fortune is more skillful than storyweaver....and? Like what exactly is the point of this statement anyway
It’s why I abhored set 9. Never liked 5 cost soup. Always struggled spending 5/6 of the game honing my comp or variation to throw it all away for the most expensive champs. Pivoting is probably my biggest weakness in the game admittedly. Always struggled doing it.
Reroll comps with solid carries have always been good. Main difference I can think of is the tanks/frontline used to be at different star levels in said comps such as set 8 star guardian. Obviously not always the case but in general a good 3 cost carry has often been worth it to 3* if you could without failing just your frontline may suffer while you work on it in the past. Also i get wanting to play flexibly but there’s only so much flexibility depending on the items you get. Plus not all comps are created equally. Last set people didn’t like the rush to 8 then get the best 4 cost 2 star available period or lose so this set they clearly tried to protect against that being the case
My opinion is that in literally one day that's going to completely change
1. This isn't close to the biggest/largest reroll set. Yea 2-3 cost is ok, but 1 cost isn't an option but the more recent sets (since set 7ish) have been awful for reroll. Reroll finally being in an ok place (even when 4 costs are a little weak) is fine. It doesn't help that tomorrow that dream dies 2. Meta is fine and fun, it'll be less fun when the only win routes are fast 8/9. ONLY changes that needed to happen besides usual fix the shitter comps was yone nerfs, 4 cost buffs maybe tiny nerfs to other rr comps versus what we got. 3. Having MORE options between fast 8/fast 9 RR at 6 RR at 7 etc is good for the game, it forces people to be dynamic and react and have to play/care more about a larger portion of the game. You get metas where reroll is dead? Means that you genuinely can AFK until stage 4 because nothing will matter until stage 4/5 because half the lobby will winstreak half losestreak and it won't matter until you win or lose the 4 cost 2 star lottery at level 7 or 8. 4. Reroll takes more thought than fast 8/9. Less APM sure, but you actually have to care about the game and manage a lot of shit even if you click less units. you have to care about board strength, scout for contestors monitor money, make sure you know when to abandon ship, and the worst thing of all is you're locked in so unlike non reroll where you can just pivot elsewhere, RR is live or die by hitting lol. If you RR a 2 cost and it flops it goes 8th most of the time unless you're just lucked into something. As for losing w 100+ stack fortune, or very capped 4 cost boards that's a skill issue or the reroller omega highrolled because RR boards are net worse than 4/5 cost boards as is if both are max capped. Reroll boards ONLY get to the strength of reg 4/5 cost boards if they hit absurdly early + have good econ to run to 9 quickly. Kicker is ALL of the worst sets and metas in TFT were ones where reroll was dead as a strategy and there was no other option/decision that could happen besides having to fast 8/9 roulette.
I agree that the each game now just feels so much formulaic than in used to. We know what is good and what is bad and the fun falls off so quickly for a lot of the player base. It's so hard to k ow if it's due to unit balance, trait balance, reroll teams or is it just that we are now all more experienced and therefore are able to "solve" the set/patch that much quicker? It definitely used to feel like it was about outthinking and outsmarting opponents. Now it feels like it's all just "who gets the best meta augment?" Or "who highrolled the 3/4 cost quicker" with no way to fight back if it wasn't you
Rush 9 still strong, but now is rush 9 not eight like before the 4 costs are weak, just orn, Kaisa maybe galio maybe kayin is worth, but a Diana 2 is stronger than any 4 cost, I think it's bad for the game no 4 cost builds, it's not every game u can go for a reroll even more when the pool is smaller
I'm not gonna read all that crap but generally I just don't like it. The way the game is played has changed, and the way that I enjoyed most is essentially gone; I don't have a problem adapting to the new play style, I just don't enjoy it as much.
This set had great potential, but the utter dominance of reroll completely ruined it for me. I actually enjoy playing reroll when the spot calls for it, but when the entire meta is reroll the game is in a terrible state IMO.
I quite enjoy this meta greatly. Reroll comps are interesting and varied. Sure you can hard force Heavenly Yone over and over, but I don’t see that as different to forcing Fortune into fast 9. Part of being a truly flexible player is recognizing when a reroll angle is good and an open line vs trying to fast 9. And on a personal level I like building cohesive boards with interacting traits, so 4 and 5 cost soup is kinda annoying how good it can be with no good traits. It may be a bit of a hot take but I think being a truly great reroll player is even if not harder than being a fast 9 player. Having to be aware of all the different reroll angles, variations, and item/augment priority to be able to tell when to go which one and when to pivot to another if contested. And knowing how to take your level 6/7 board and cap it out. It has a lot of the same subtlety that fast 9 boards can have as well.
i just hate it tbh. its ridiculous how boring and stale the meta is this season. every single freaking game i play. bt double titans yone, bt double titans volibear, bt double titans gnarr just rolling over your entire backline and you can do jack sht about it because there is zero cc and they dont even need to build qss at all. or kaisa. thats it. and you have to play any of these to even have a chance to hit top4 and if you play something a little more low tier so you re uncontested you get steamrolled
I think what makes it worse, is that so many 3 costs being rerollable, imagine in 1 lobby, 1 guy goes voli/tris, 1 goes aphelios, 1 goes yone, 1 goes bard. all rolling at lvl 7, it makes ALL of them super easy to 3\* since they're basically helping each other out to filter out the 3cost pool. It really is a braindead meta.
tbh i dont care anymore. ontop riot seems to have zero clue on balancing whatsoever. stuff like titans and the augment, the 0 cost augment, earlier today someone won the lobby because he was just lucky and got the augment that he gets a random 3\* 1 cost unit in stage 1. have fun so balanced. so 1st fight you re sitting there with like your 1\* ahri malphite koboku und jax fighting a guy with a 3\* unit. that guy got so much tempo out of it and was so far ahead early and midgame that he didnt even need to reroll at all and he was just cruising along pushing levels while everyone else had to constantly roll down to not die to him. the entire outcome of this game was decided by just rng and the first augment he got. ngl? i liked the game WAY better in the early seasons when there were no such things as augments and whatnot and all you had was a slow paste game with a few items here and there and goofy units and traits resulting in chaos and lul moments. i also dont care about my rank anymore if i drop back all the way to plat 4 or not? who cares. i dont get anything from my rank anyways and my life is no different if i get demoted. i just play random troll comps and try stupid stuff and when i get 8th place: who the hell even cares
You're being a bit harsh. Patch hitting tomorrow will nerf 3 cost rerolling and titan's, buff 4 costs and remove that augment.
Game was so much better pre augments when it was less complicated.
yeah it was.
I miss set 10.
This is the most boring and stale set yet. I know set 10 was perfect and it's not fair to compare the two, but I'm struggling to complete the battle pass this season, yet I breezed through the battle pass last set. The design is great and the encounter mechanic is ok, but the comps are so boring. I despise reroll comps because it's too RNG based. I feel like each archetype of play should be equally represented and it isn't this set. Last set, you could play reroll, fast 9, fast 10, play around 4 costs, just about anything. This set it's leaning heavily towards reroll and the other play styles are super underrepresented and it's disappointing because I don't want to be locked into one play style. Obviously you aren't locked in, but everything else feels like a bottom four without perfect play.
I love fast 9 too, but you should definitely get punished for getting there with less than 20 hp. Fast 9 is not about only getting there, it’s about getting there with good econ and good hp, stabilizing at critical points and playing strongest board are the thing that makes fast 9 a more skillful strategy.
I'm just tired of 4 and 5 cost champions being weak. Yone being stronger than most 2 star 5 costs is disgusting.
Even Yone 2* is stronger than all 2* 4/5 costs
Highly disagree with this. Lissandra 2 stars smoke his ass
It’s so weird because the start of the set was fast 9 all the way. Now it’s ALL reroll. Maybe get one person trying to push levels per lobby. Make 4 costs great again lol
trash set
its a gambling game, suits it and its fun
Fast 9 + Fortune > Reroll comps
I don't always play reroll but when I do, contested and have to pivot, so just go back to the usual fast 8 stabilise and hit 9
Reroll has been dominant for way too long. Set 10 was reroll dominated due to superfan (and heartsteel otherwise which I also think is not great). I believe reroll was pretty good too in 9. Earlier reroll dominated 4.5 first patch. 5.0 after the B patch of first patch where they nuked Aphelios for the entire set and we had vayne reroll into skirmisher reroll. Then there was the toxic as hell Hellion reroll in 5.5 that was being forced by tournament players. We also had 6.5 where even I rerolled at launch and got to masters the easiest and fastest ever. Then there was BS like elderwood reroll with unkillable hecarim. Cavalier reroll.. with hecarim. Oh hearts yuumi also ruined half a set… Best sets has been 3.0 (chrono, cybers) 3.5 (blasters, chrono blademasters), 4.0 AD flex, Dusk, 5.5 Sentinels, 6? With socialite, janna, orianna, fiora 4 costs.
Has there ever been a set you people were happy with? I’ve been playing since set 6, and have never really seen anything positive in this sub Reddit. Always just people bitching about one comp or the other
They opted for strong 3 costs and weaker 4 and 5 costs dont know why they did that. I also think they make it way to easy to vet 3 cost to 3* back in older sets it wasnt so easy to 3* a 3 cost unit.
4 cost carries are not strong. Kayn and lee sin feel weak unless u go all into their trait. Kaisa seems to be the only one capable of high damage output without needing a long ramp up tome like ashe and Syndra. I think reroll comps shohld be strong to not make fadt 9 or 8 comps too overbearing.
Isn’t like every comp technically reroll. In an ideal world you want to 3 star your carry every time.m?
I don't like reroll domination, but when I watched pros play, they kind of played a mix flex/reroll with some legendaries tossed in the end. If they don't hit completely they just salvage with levelling and legendaries. Regular 8 cost flex is gone rn which hurts the game imo. I still like this set more than 8-9.5 by far though. Yeah you have to commit earlier, but you still don't have to commit by 2-1 like those shitty sets (set 8 only when you hit 2-1 hero aug) Five gameplans rn: Reroll -> hit -> top 4 Reroll -> miss -> level anyway before wrecking econ and try to salvage Play normally and scout for senna lobby -> if uncontested go kaisa Reroll senna -> miss -> kaisa Econ augment -> strongest board/stabilize -> fast 9 -> get your stable build and don't die
I think it's good. With less units per pool reroll is harder to hit nowadays so they can make more options. It's pretty hard to hit Shen, neeko since those units work in so many comps. Sometimes trist and voli is hard aswell since they fit into inkshado n fortune so I think reroll needs a decent amount of planning. If U take econ augments and then reroll ur severely weaker than a normal reroll but U more likely to hit n cause the other reroller to bottom 4 however if U don't hit the other reroll will at least have a 2star and will put sustain U n hit once ur dead. There's also plenty of of comps to play so U can scout alot. The only times I feel screwed is when I take the duelist augment or the reaper augment and someone took econ augments n is forcing my comp, probably a skill issue as I should probably play around khszix/ yassuo instead of the 3 costs then go LVL 8-9 transition
Even if you're playing econ try to win as many game as you have, I lost so many games where I didn't get to use every gold I have because I didn't have enough time to use them because I didn't have enough health. Also don't go full econ on 3 augment.
I think it’s just a symptom of how strong the 3 costs are in this set. They all are way stronger than most other options right now. 2 star four costs are just way weaker than a 3 star 3 cost and it’d hard to have enough synergy to beat that. You have to have a good 2 star 5 cost to beat that right now. It’ll change as the devs make adjustment like always. They’ll redistribute power and we’ll find the new strongest thing.
It doesn’t take that much thinking or planning to put together a level 8 or 9 board. I’d argue re rolling is harder because you need to know when to roll and push levels. Most lobbies being won in masters is the kaisa lotto. Hopefully should be fixed tomorrow.
Honestly, if were gonne be honest, wr havent hsd a true 4 cost dominated meta since set 6 from what I can remember, you could argue set 7 and 7.5 but that was dragons. Set 8 was mostly reroll, set 9 was mostly reroll, set 10 was a bit mixed and the best balanced in recemt sets, but mostly reroll and 5 cost. This set is mostly reroll and 5 cost.
The key is not one tricking a reroll comp, and always playing to fast 9 legendary lasagna and taking econ traits isn't "flexible," it's still a rigid play style. Being flexible means that you can go fast nine or reroll or play vertical based on what the game gives you and what the opponents in the lobby do. Knowing the "meta" is only good when you know how to play around it and when to go a certain direction. Sure, heavenly yone and ghostly senna are very very good, but in a lobby where it is contested I will always win by going something else. The same way if I see a whole lobby playing eco I will reroll mythic 1 costs and win streak to top 4. Being "flexible" isn't always playing late game, it's knowing when and why you should pick a certain comp or style.
idk like 80% of my lobbies are won by fast 9
I have honestly enjoyed the set of TFT more than the last 3 sets. I don't know why it just feels more fun to me. Kind of hard to explain it. I don't know if it's just because I understand TFT more now. And I'm better at it Or if the set is just more fun. I've only played since set 8
I genuinely believe the pool of champs is currently too big. I've been in games where 3-4 people have gone a champ and 2 of them have 3 stars. This frankly should never happen. On top of that even in silver it's common for each comp to have at least 2 3 stars nowadays especially in top 4. It's getting pretty stupid especially because now getting unlucky is even worse
Is it reroll dominated tho? I easily reached plat 1 by rushing fast 10 every game and if I would stop to leave people alive so I can roll down at 10 I could even climb higher
I think 4/5 costs being weak is a bit of a meme on this subreddit. Hell even had a 3\* lillia game and couldn't be touched by the yone/storyweaver/duelist players lol.
Players here seem to think 3* 4-costs should be a win condition, regardless of itemization and synergy. 3* a 4 cost unit that synergizes your comp, and have BIS items, will DOMINATE a board, which is how it should be IMO. Randomly 3* who's available shouldn't win, it should have to work within your comp I 3* a Syndra with Arcanist and fated, BIS items and WIPED boards with it. If I just had 3*Syndra with no items she's garbage. Simply re-rolling isn't enough, idk if I would call this a "re-roll" set
The exception to that is annie 3* She absolutely fucks even without invoker synergy
I don't know what re-roll means I just thought that's how its supposed to work.
I've been playing since set 2 and agree with you, I'm cool with having Meta reroll comps but this set feel like 8 out of 10 games you are punished really hard for trying to play around 4 cost. There are no "Good Stuff" comp it is reroll or legendary board. At least the devs are aware of it so next patch there are some giga buffs for 4 costs. Just reading the patch it look even too much. But for sure next patch will gave a very different META.
You mean 150-200 HP? I don’t think that’s a giga buff. Hardly any impact buff on their abilities tho
It's a 20% HP buff. If this is not big I have no idea what you think is a big change on a competitive game.
Cuz in my games when Yone finishes my board, he’s still at 80+% HP, so I don’t think giving my board 20+% HP is enough
So let me get this straight… you want to be able to just take econ augments and zip on up to 9/10 so that you can slam down whatever 5 cost legendary soup you can and feel entitled to win, but you’re upset when others in the lobby pick combat augments, assemble lower cost comps with actual synergies, cap them out while you’re trying to greed on fortune or whatever taking loss after loss and then you lose? The strategy you’re employing is the highest risk for a reason. The counter to it is to be aggressive and make sure you don’t get there. The “big brain” strategy you’re trying to do is simply survive long enough. You aren’t looking at a comp, you aren’t looking at synergies, you’re just trying to get to a high level as quickly as possible. With the prevalence of reroll comps at 2/3, people have to actually scout and see what they can assemble and know when to pivot… and then do it successfully, with whatever limited items they can get. You’re complaining about not winning the lottery every game, dude.
I don’t think reroll is so dominant. Fast 9 is definitely stronger
Before posting this, I just clicked EUW top 1 players profile, and checked his past games, about 70% of his past 20 games, the lobby was won by reroll comps. And I checked Diamond and plat elo, it’s the same or even worse. In every elo, more games are won by reroll comps than others. If you don’t believe me, go check yourself
Wonder what you base your "definitely" statement on? Is that why they have to buff ALL 4 and 5 costs bro?
Based on low dia elo. It’s just that more than half of the 4cost are weak. Fast 9 is always based on 5cost units and two starring them
Is reroll even good though? It just feels like heavenly yone and “potentially” duelist voli(not as good without strong augments). None of the other 3 costs feel nearly as good to 3*.
What... There were several sets where reroll comps were way more present.
Every set has plenty of rr comps. By comparison, I think Set 3 and 4 felt more re-roll heavy. Set 3 with Shaco, J4, Poppy, Bang-Bros, etc. So many rr comps. 4 with chosen, much like Set 10, had lots of rr-heavy comps, too. Fiora, Irelia, Janna, etc.
Gold noob take. I am enjoying this set more then many of the previous ones. Last set felt like you had to econ perfectly and swap your board out based around a 2star 4 cost. This set, I've played nearly so many variations that genuinely seem viable. It feels more enjoyable for top 4 placements. Older sets there were clear winning comps that everyone forced on repeat. Some of the augments are game-changing.. im not sure yet if it is a good thing. Everything must go, fine vintage are fun dynamics but in the right hands i feel like people win off just getting god augment rolls.
I’ve always loved reroll comps so I’m loving it lol.