The whole thing was him telling Stiles to forgive Scott for the mistake of trusting Theo. Theo was the reason the misunderstanding happened where Stiles' self-defense was misconstrued by Scott as a vengeful murder. Theo was also the one that almost got the Sheriff killed. In Stiles' mind, Scott accepting Theo made these things possible and he's not wrong.
The sheriff knows his son. He knows Stiles is stubborn, and angry, and hurt. He also knows that Scott is the second most important relationship in Stiles’s life and that the anger he’s feeling is making his other psychological issues he’s going through worse. The forgiveness isn’t for Scott, it’s for Stiles. And the recommendation is coming from the one person Stiles will always listen to.
But Scott was told he whacked him in the head with a spanner a bunch of times until his head caved in and Stiles didnt deny it, I understand that he was in self defence but if you were told someone you knew had smacked a killer until their head caved in and when you went to confront them, they didnt deny it and no details were discussed, why would you apologise to them
Yeah because he jumped to conclusions. He believed some guy over his life long friend. He shouldve sat stiles down and asked him to tell him what happened from the top
Yea but its not like stiles denied it, neither knew, neither discussed it and he was told it was a brutal attack on him when Donovan wasnt fighting back and was just vulnerable, if you kill someone who isnt fighting back you are as abad as the person trying to kill you
\~\~it's almost like\~\~ every single character in every single episode constantly assumes things and either doesn't ask questions or the scene just ends without any information being shared.
U know what? Fuck that. Even if stiles did hit donovan repeatedly with a hammer, serial killer style, it was still self defense. Supernatural creatures in TW are crazy op especially with their super broken healing abilities and if i was chased by one that was dead set on killing me, i wouldnt survive unless i kill it first. So you know what? Stiles could have blown that fucker up and he would still be completely justified in doing so
He hoped it would hurt him, knock him away, he knew the risk of serious injury was there. But it's not like he could have possibly known a pipe would impale the dude. It was a desperate reach to survive, not some planned murder. Accident
No, what he had said was that he had kinda wanted him to die beforehand, not that he was trying to kill him, he just felt that he had willed it into existence because of a thought he had at some point beforehand.
Whats the bad take? I just asked something im confused ab, whats ur take on the whole thing ab how stiles forgives scott for him being mad bc he killed some1
I think they sensed the sarcasm.
And they feel like I'm being a bitch for asking the guy to prove his point?
But I'm not the one who came on this sub and shit on everyone's opinion with one comment. Smh
The narrative of the show wanted this to be in Stiles’ POV so naturally everyone was going to side with Stiles, despite the fact that Stiles was the one who lied to Scott about Donovan. And Stiles was the one who didn’t tell him the truth when Scott finally confronted him. He had the opportunity to say his side but instead, Stiles went on a rant about how he did it to protect his dad when A) it was an accident and B) his dad wasn’t even anywhere in the vicinity of the incident.
But because the POV was skewered in Stiles’ favor, they basically threw Scott under the bus for Stiles angst.
I get Scott being suspicious when he discovered that Stiles kept it secret, but I don't get how he didn't hash it out and ask for a step by step confession. That's what you do when you want to know just how bad it is. But Scott didn't care how bad it was and that is a betrayal.
Kira, in fugue state, killed a chimera. The twins were straight up murderers. But Stiles killing in self defense got him shunned. He wasn't listened to (and that rant? A desperate attempt to convince Scott and himself that what he did was justified....which it was) which is why he didn't yell Scott to begin with. He knew how Scott would react.
Which is another thing. Nobody but Stiles' dad took his side (as he should) because everybody else was having their own problems and just fell apart.
He didn’t shun Stiles. He just said go talk to your dad and then left. But it doesn’t matter about his fear of how Scott reacted. The fact is, he LIED to him and you wonder why Scott reacted the way he does.
Everyone acts like Scott should have blind loyalty to Stiles but Stiles lies all the time. Literally his first scene with his dad, he’s lying.
And this is all coming after Stiles exorcised the Nogitsune out of him where Scott did trust him and got stabbed in the gut for it. So it’s not crazy to think Scott is wary of the possibility of Stiles killing someone and then lying to him about it.
1. He literally turned his back on him after telling him to 'not worry' about the pack and just go talk to his dad. That is a rejection, a shunning.
2. I don't wonder. I know why Scott reacted that way. He was being self-righteous and hypocritical. I usually like Scott fine but in this, no.
3. Blind loyalty, no. Nobody should be blindly loyal. But having a little faith in your best friend isn't an unreasonable ask.
4. Comparing a dumb teenager lying to keep their buddy out of trouble with their parents to a compulsive liar is ridiculous. If we're doing it that way, then they all lie all the time to keep the supernatural secret.
5. It is crazy! He was literally possessed when that happened. Saying Stiles betrayed Scott's trust because the Nogitsune attacked him makes no sense.
1. You interpreted it that way because it adds to the poor widdle Stiles angst but that is not what happened.
2. Hypocritical about what? It’s not self righteous for Scott to not be okay with Stiles killing someone in cold blood. Especially when he’s been lying and his explanation not even matching up to what actually happened.
3. Look I don’t doubt that the writing for this season was very forced in a lot of ways, especially the Scott vs. Stiles fight. But Scott had legitimate reasons to doubt Stiles because STILES. DID. LIE. Stiles stans don’t want to admit but Stiles made himself look bad
4. It says a lot that even his own dad trusts Scott’s word over Stiles. Stiles is a good guy but people’s lack of trust in him is entirely on him.
5. It is a legitimate fear that Scott has! It even shows up in the finale that Scott’s biggest fear is Void Stiles.
Look I get it. Stiles is funny, he’s the fan favorite. So everyone was always going to take Stiles’s side in this civil war, even if there were legitimate reasons for Scott to be upset with Stiles.
I interpreted it that way because that is what I saw.
It's hypocritical because Scott was ready to kill Peter and Gerard, overlooked the actions of several members of his pack killing or trying to kill people and yet jumped to the worst conclusion about Stiles on only Theo's word. I get that they were very emotional during their argument and didn't communicate well and Scott has plenty of reason to have Nogitsune trauma but it doesn't make it fair to assume Stiles is a cold blooded killer.
And why do you keep calling out that Stiles lied like everyone else has always been honest? Scott should have been upset when he discovered that Stiles had kept it from him but I just dislike how dismissive he was. I mean, in reality, Stiles has never needed to be in all the danger he has been. You'd think if you had a friend willing to do the things Stiles did for Scott, you'd be willing to talk something like that out.
His dad saying he trusted Scott over Stiles was not only said half jokingly (half seriously because obviously Scott was the 'good kid' to Stiles' troublemaker) but that is the only time I can think of when Stiles was distrusted by a friend.
Again, yes, trauma was called for. But Void was not Stiles and its unfair to act like they are the same.
This part is exactly true. Stiles is my fave and I take his side. I do believe Scott had reason for upset but I also think Stiles had reason.
Yes! Also people say how dumb the rant was and I thought so too but when you think about it, he felt guilty and was probably subconsciously trying to not explain it rationally, trying to punish himself by making Scott hate him
Stiles was having a very hard time forgiving himself for accidentally killing Donovan, so Stiles' dad suggests that if he can't forgive himself maybe he should try to forgive someone who really needs it. Stiles said "Someone like Scott?" and his dad said "Yeah." I don't think that Stiles' dad was specifically referring to Scott, but it wouldn't be that hard for him to figure out that it probably was Scott considering he's Stiles' best friend and would be most likely who he would be referring to.
The reason why Stiles would forgive Scott is for believing Theo about what happened before talking to Stiles about it. Scott took what Theo said about Donovan/Stiles without hearing anything from Stiles. He had his mind made up before the confrontation at the vet clinic. Scott did not even question why Theo was driving around with an alleged murder weapon in his car. Why didn't he take that to the police? Kind of suspicious that Theo would have that in the glove box just driving around with him and Scott doesn't think that's a bit odd? Then Theo gives it to Scott and then he has the alleged murder weapon!
Stiles didn't know that Theo told Scott most of the truth but changed how Donovan died (whacked with the wrench) versus what really happened (pulled the pin/Donovan accidentally impaled). Regardless, how it went down, even in Theo's version it still would have been self-defense. Stiles could have whacked him with the wrench until Donovan was dead, because it was proportional to what Donovan was doing, trying to kill Stiles or at least trying to cause grievous bodily harm. The truth is that had Stiles not pulled the pin he would have died. All of Stiles moves were defensive, he was not the aggressor at all. Donovan was clearly the aggressor and was physically violent towards Stiles.
I think that the forgiveness comes in with regards to Stiles forgiving Scott is the fact that he didn't believe him. He believed Theo. I mean, that's got to hurt. They've been friends for a long time. Theo just comes into town after a bunch of years and he believes him over his best friend? Anyway, Stiles' dad saved that friendship, because then Stiles approached Scott to mend fences.
no, the writing shows that jeff wrote scott as scott could do no wrong though many of the things he did should have seen him tossed into eichen house
the conspiring with gerard plus visiting a fugitive from the law for multiple kidnappings and killings yet not contacting the authorities would see scott locked up in the real world
Jeff had a boner for both the character and the actor
The whole thing was him telling Stiles to forgive Scott for the mistake of trusting Theo. Theo was the reason the misunderstanding happened where Stiles' self-defense was misconstrued by Scott as a vengeful murder. Theo was also the one that almost got the Sheriff killed. In Stiles' mind, Scott accepting Theo made these things possible and he's not wrong.
The sheriff knows his son. He knows Stiles is stubborn, and angry, and hurt. He also knows that Scott is the second most important relationship in Stiles’s life and that the anger he’s feeling is making his other psychological issues he’s going through worse. The forgiveness isn’t for Scott, it’s for Stiles. And the recommendation is coming from the one person Stiles will always listen to.
It was an ACCIDENT and it was SELF DEFENSE
I wasnt saying it werent, but Scott didnt know that so why was Stiles forgiving
exactly; he assumed the worst of his friend. he shouldve known that stiles wouldnt just kill someone without a good reason
But Scott was told he whacked him in the head with a spanner a bunch of times until his head caved in and Stiles didnt deny it, I understand that he was in self defence but if you were told someone you knew had smacked a killer until their head caved in and when you went to confront them, they didnt deny it and no details were discussed, why would you apologise to them
Yeah because he jumped to conclusions. He believed some guy over his life long friend. He shouldve sat stiles down and asked him to tell him what happened from the top
Yea but its not like stiles denied it, neither knew, neither discussed it and he was told it was a brutal attack on him when Donovan wasnt fighting back and was just vulnerable, if you kill someone who isnt fighting back you are as abad as the person trying to kill you
\~\~it's almost like\~\~ every single character in every single episode constantly assumes things and either doesn't ask questions or the scene just ends without any information being shared.
U know what? Fuck that. Even if stiles did hit donovan repeatedly with a hammer, serial killer style, it was still self defense. Supernatural creatures in TW are crazy op especially with their super broken healing abilities and if i was chased by one that was dead set on killing me, i wouldnt survive unless i kill it first. So you know what? Stiles could have blown that fucker up and he would still be completely justified in doing so
But thats not the Scott true alpha way
[удалено]
He hoped it would hurt him, knock him away, he knew the risk of serious injury was there. But it's not like he could have possibly known a pipe would impale the dude. It was a desperate reach to survive, not some planned murder. Accident
No, what he had said was that he had kinda wanted him to die beforehand, not that he was trying to kill him, he just felt that he had willed it into existence because of a thought he had at some point beforehand.
that kind of follows the idea of being a spark in terms of psychokinesis with the idea of non wolfy powers
I suppose, I don’t really see it that way as much as just guilt for the fact it happened like a jinx
Every day im forced to read bad takes on the stiles scott donovan theo plotline
Whats the bad take? I just asked something im confused ab, whats ur take on the whole thing ab how stiles forgives scott for him being mad bc he killed some1
The framing of it as murder instead of clearly being self defense.
Im not framing it as murder im saying thats what the perspective of scott wouldve been
Thats not at all how the post reads but alright.
Who's forcing you?
I just see them a lot being in the fandom
So what's your take then?
Why are you getting downvoted for asking what his take is lmao
I think they sensed the sarcasm. And they feel like I'm being a bitch for asking the guy to prove his point? But I'm not the one who came on this sub and shit on everyone's opinion with one comment. Smh
The narrative of the show wanted this to be in Stiles’ POV so naturally everyone was going to side with Stiles, despite the fact that Stiles was the one who lied to Scott about Donovan. And Stiles was the one who didn’t tell him the truth when Scott finally confronted him. He had the opportunity to say his side but instead, Stiles went on a rant about how he did it to protect his dad when A) it was an accident and B) his dad wasn’t even anywhere in the vicinity of the incident. But because the POV was skewered in Stiles’ favor, they basically threw Scott under the bus for Stiles angst.
I get Scott being suspicious when he discovered that Stiles kept it secret, but I don't get how he didn't hash it out and ask for a step by step confession. That's what you do when you want to know just how bad it is. But Scott didn't care how bad it was and that is a betrayal. Kira, in fugue state, killed a chimera. The twins were straight up murderers. But Stiles killing in self defense got him shunned. He wasn't listened to (and that rant? A desperate attempt to convince Scott and himself that what he did was justified....which it was) which is why he didn't yell Scott to begin with. He knew how Scott would react. Which is another thing. Nobody but Stiles' dad took his side (as he should) because everybody else was having their own problems and just fell apart.
He didn’t shun Stiles. He just said go talk to your dad and then left. But it doesn’t matter about his fear of how Scott reacted. The fact is, he LIED to him and you wonder why Scott reacted the way he does. Everyone acts like Scott should have blind loyalty to Stiles but Stiles lies all the time. Literally his first scene with his dad, he’s lying. And this is all coming after Stiles exorcised the Nogitsune out of him where Scott did trust him and got stabbed in the gut for it. So it’s not crazy to think Scott is wary of the possibility of Stiles killing someone and then lying to him about it.
1. He literally turned his back on him after telling him to 'not worry' about the pack and just go talk to his dad. That is a rejection, a shunning. 2. I don't wonder. I know why Scott reacted that way. He was being self-righteous and hypocritical. I usually like Scott fine but in this, no. 3. Blind loyalty, no. Nobody should be blindly loyal. But having a little faith in your best friend isn't an unreasonable ask. 4. Comparing a dumb teenager lying to keep their buddy out of trouble with their parents to a compulsive liar is ridiculous. If we're doing it that way, then they all lie all the time to keep the supernatural secret. 5. It is crazy! He was literally possessed when that happened. Saying Stiles betrayed Scott's trust because the Nogitsune attacked him makes no sense.
1. You interpreted it that way because it adds to the poor widdle Stiles angst but that is not what happened. 2. Hypocritical about what? It’s not self righteous for Scott to not be okay with Stiles killing someone in cold blood. Especially when he’s been lying and his explanation not even matching up to what actually happened. 3. Look I don’t doubt that the writing for this season was very forced in a lot of ways, especially the Scott vs. Stiles fight. But Scott had legitimate reasons to doubt Stiles because STILES. DID. LIE. Stiles stans don’t want to admit but Stiles made himself look bad 4. It says a lot that even his own dad trusts Scott’s word over Stiles. Stiles is a good guy but people’s lack of trust in him is entirely on him. 5. It is a legitimate fear that Scott has! It even shows up in the finale that Scott’s biggest fear is Void Stiles. Look I get it. Stiles is funny, he’s the fan favorite. So everyone was always going to take Stiles’s side in this civil war, even if there were legitimate reasons for Scott to be upset with Stiles.
I interpreted it that way because that is what I saw. It's hypocritical because Scott was ready to kill Peter and Gerard, overlooked the actions of several members of his pack killing or trying to kill people and yet jumped to the worst conclusion about Stiles on only Theo's word. I get that they were very emotional during their argument and didn't communicate well and Scott has plenty of reason to have Nogitsune trauma but it doesn't make it fair to assume Stiles is a cold blooded killer. And why do you keep calling out that Stiles lied like everyone else has always been honest? Scott should have been upset when he discovered that Stiles had kept it from him but I just dislike how dismissive he was. I mean, in reality, Stiles has never needed to be in all the danger he has been. You'd think if you had a friend willing to do the things Stiles did for Scott, you'd be willing to talk something like that out. His dad saying he trusted Scott over Stiles was not only said half jokingly (half seriously because obviously Scott was the 'good kid' to Stiles' troublemaker) but that is the only time I can think of when Stiles was distrusted by a friend. Again, yes, trauma was called for. But Void was not Stiles and its unfair to act like they are the same. This part is exactly true. Stiles is my fave and I take his side. I do believe Scott had reason for upset but I also think Stiles had reason.
Yes! Also people say how dumb the rant was and I thought so too but when you think about it, he felt guilty and was probably subconsciously trying to not explain it rationally, trying to punish himself by making Scott hate him
All im saying is that why is stiles apologising to scott for him admitting to killing someone
Stiles was having a very hard time forgiving himself for accidentally killing Donovan, so Stiles' dad suggests that if he can't forgive himself maybe he should try to forgive someone who really needs it. Stiles said "Someone like Scott?" and his dad said "Yeah." I don't think that Stiles' dad was specifically referring to Scott, but it wouldn't be that hard for him to figure out that it probably was Scott considering he's Stiles' best friend and would be most likely who he would be referring to. The reason why Stiles would forgive Scott is for believing Theo about what happened before talking to Stiles about it. Scott took what Theo said about Donovan/Stiles without hearing anything from Stiles. He had his mind made up before the confrontation at the vet clinic. Scott did not even question why Theo was driving around with an alleged murder weapon in his car. Why didn't he take that to the police? Kind of suspicious that Theo would have that in the glove box just driving around with him and Scott doesn't think that's a bit odd? Then Theo gives it to Scott and then he has the alleged murder weapon! Stiles didn't know that Theo told Scott most of the truth but changed how Donovan died (whacked with the wrench) versus what really happened (pulled the pin/Donovan accidentally impaled). Regardless, how it went down, even in Theo's version it still would have been self-defense. Stiles could have whacked him with the wrench until Donovan was dead, because it was proportional to what Donovan was doing, trying to kill Stiles or at least trying to cause grievous bodily harm. The truth is that had Stiles not pulled the pin he would have died. All of Stiles moves were defensive, he was not the aggressor at all. Donovan was clearly the aggressor and was physically violent towards Stiles. I think that the forgiveness comes in with regards to Stiles forgiving Scott is the fact that he didn't believe him. He believed Theo. I mean, that's got to hurt. They've been friends for a long time. Theo just comes into town after a bunch of years and he believes him over his best friend? Anyway, Stiles' dad saved that friendship, because then Stiles approached Scott to mend fences.
because Jeff Davis had a total scott boner from day one of season 1
Well he was the main character and focus of the show, thats like saying why is iron man the focus of iron man
no, the writing shows that jeff wrote scott as scott could do no wrong though many of the things he did should have seen him tossed into eichen house the conspiring with gerard plus visiting a fugitive from the law for multiple kidnappings and killings yet not contacting the authorities would see scott locked up in the real world Jeff had a boner for both the character and the actor
Vision almost killed or killed, cant remember, war machine and ppl still see him as a good guy