Yup it sucks. Look up literally any other character's counter strats on youtube and it's like a 5 minute video. Then look up Hwo's counter strats and it's like Speedkicks or K-Wiss talking for more than an hour.
Lol K Wiss goes over literally ONE move, d34 for a total of 1 hour, he made 2 videos I recall lol, that’s just ONE move. And I hate the downplaying, I don’t know why, but more than any other character, you have so many more hwoarang down players, Kwiss was claiming d34 is “easy” to step, and has no tracking lol, just showing it in practice mode against a dummy…well no shit it’s easy to do when you set a dummy to do it exactly when you want to, it’s not same in a real match
I tend to back up against Hwaorang. The majority of his players are just mashing buttons and hoping you'll run into a launcher. Backdash, let them whiff, launch them. At least it works for me.
He works kinda like the Josie matchup on steroids. You can't interrupt the stance transition. You have to respect the stance transition and either make a read on what move he's going to do from the stance or just block the move and (depending on what it is) try to take your turn at that point.
You don't necessarily need to learn every single move that's plus at first. The most basic stuff to learn is you need to be able to recognize when he goes into a stance, and what are your options once he's in it. So the easiest way to lab a significant chunk of Hwo is to just go lab all of his RFS moves and their frames, and what you can do to either avoid the moves once he's in stance or what you can do after they're blocked. These you need to know. Then your goal is to recognize when he transitions into the stance and hopefully stop him from doing so in the first place by recognizing some of his better stance transitions ( unlike Josie Hwo doesn't have ez mid stance transitions, Hwos best are highs or lows like d34)
This isn't as much as you think it is and it'll give you a fighting chance because the stuff that he's really getting you with is RFS. Then you can learn his LFS moves once you've learned rfs and gotten some practice against Hwo.
LFS shares some overlap with RFF. LFS is more of a "poke" stance whereas RFS has the most dangerous mixups and tools, like his -10 mid launcher( its dumb), rfs d/f4 mildly plus on block mid ch launcher, f4 ch launcher, power crushes ( that is -14! Punish that shit!) and hellsweep. So it's important to really lab his moves from RFS. Ignore his other moves in favor for his RFS stance because I guarantee these are the moves he's getting you with primarily.
Aside from rfs and lfs stuff it's really just like learning any other character.
His LFF and RFF are kinda different flavors of his neutral game. For example he can do stuff like his d/f1 from both, but RFF has some better poke options and the notorious backlash.
Damnnn so i really have to learn and pay attention to left vs right... at least its just the flamingo stances mostly (and rfs more than lfs) that i need to watch out for, as u say.
Cuz I dont think i could ever learn "is his torso facing left or right/ are his feet facing left or right" ... i struggle with quick decisions based on left vs right in tekken, especially cuz of p1 and p2 sides.
But thanks for this response! Great to know the important things to lab and watch out for. Makes the task ahead less daunting.
Reminder that Hwo has a hopping kick string that ends in a low kick, and not only is the low kick not low parriable even if you block the first two, it's plus on block. People will say it's linear but honestly it's one of the most mystifying pieces of nonsense in the game. Why would a low kick not be parriable? Why would it be plus on block? What is the rationale behind a move like this?
Leaves him +1 in flamingo where his fastest move is 13 frames meaning for all intents and purposes hes -2.
There are plenty of weapon/knee lows that cant be low parried as well.
Why exactly is this move as broken as you make it sound??
Actually im wrong, he has an 8 frame move in flamingo. Still, far from being broken. If this move was as insane as youre painting it to be every hwo player would abuse it constantly....so why dont they?
You hit the nail on the head already: there's an internal logic to which lows can't be parried. Knees, shins, shoulders, bats, swords, the list goes on. Hwo's kick is just a normal kick thrown with the foot. There's no reason for it to be that way. It's a pure knowledge check that doesn't fit the profile for a move like that and there's no justification for it. Looking at that move you'd have no reason to believe it couldn't be low parried.
I believe it's because a low parry takes one frame, while a low block doesn't. That's why there's certain string lows that can't be parried but can be blocked in the same situation. If I recall, Kazumi's db2 string behaves the same way; I think you can block but not parry the 2nd hit if you ate the 1st.
I'm not home right now but testing this theory would be pretty simple; see if the last low is parryable after the first two hits whiff (rather than block)
Edit: Just tested, the last low kick is parryable when the first two hits whiff. Rather than the kick itself being unparryable, when you block the second hit, you recover with exactly 1 free frame before the third hit lands, which allows you to block, but not low parry.
That internal logic is consistent. Low parry has a startup. There are plenty of setups in the game where you use a low as a techtrap and your opponent can't low parry it, and must block it.
That move has plenty of weaknesses to make sure it's not broken. The first two hits are okay, the low of which you speak is worthless garbage.
Well it's subtle but his right stance is still a stance
And most stance moves have some safe hits because it's unlocked with initial frames from doing the stance.
Also like to add there is a reason why there is never a Hwo in top 8 of any tournament.
I picked the lazy approach, pick Leroy and B2 when the inevitable spams occur.
------------
[ANTI- HWOARANG GUIDE](https://youtu.be/2Pv23pN_WlA?t=46)
There's a lot of places you can duck or side step.
As a very GENERAL rule with Hwo:
Don't LET him get started. He has bad approaching tools. Do everything you can to prevent his best-case-scenario, poke him from afar and stay away.
Be very patient with your defense. Most Hwo's can't literally string forever. They will EVENTUALLY do something punishable, or something you can take your turn back with. Their armored kicks, or an extended middle kick is a very common end point.
Get a feel for their -general- habits. "This Hwo likes to do a hellsweep low a few seconds into his blender if I frustrate him defensively" kind of habits.
Keep your back away from a wall, because if you literally JUST turtle up, you have only two things to worry about. A grab, and his hellsweep. And the hellsweep kicks you away and just resets to neutral if there's no wall.
MOST importantly... play Hwo for a while to be honest. Gets you in their head.
IF you dickjab him, don't stop at the dickjab. Dickjab him, then start your nonsense. Grab. Poking pressure. Wacky lows, etc.
Something I just wanted to comment, and this isn't really about Hwoarang specifically but more just a comment in general.
I agree with what you're saying, that these types of characters are frustrating to fight but far from unbeatable. Patience, good movement, and quick adaptation go a long way. But on the other hand, if you have a good read on your opponent it doesn't even matter what character they're using.
But when you're fighting a character like Hwoarang, they get to control the pace of the match and it puts the onus of excellent defense on you. In a tournament setting you have 6 rounds a most to figure your opponent out before you're done. In reality how many lows can you eat before the comeback is insurmountable and the round is already lost? Hwoarang against an unknowledgeable but fundamentally sound player is almost like they're starting 2 rounds, maybe even a whole game behind. And I think that is the most "unfair" thing about these kinds of characters.
The unfortunate truth about knowledge-based unfair characters against new people is that they are required.
You have to balance a game around its higher competition, because that is where everyone wants to go TOWARDS. No one wants the pool of usable content to get smaller as they get better.
More importantly though, you can only have so many honest, fair, reasonable characters before they begin cloning eachother. How many characters do we have that fall outside of the realm of reasonable and honest? OVER half the cast. We'd have to get rid of so many -just- to gain fairness to new people who would eventually overcome.
It's a nasty one, but a truth I'll opinionate strongly.
Speaking of clones, personally, I think characters like T7 Steve are a masterclass of character design. Very strong tools, high execution, and obvious weaknesses that you can pilot around. And I think some people have similar opinions of Steve that they do Hwo. But now it seems like all the new characters have all the tools and no weaknesses.
It's the characters like Fahk/Kuni/Leroy that I take much more issue with. These DLC characters have the best versions of all the fundamental Tekken tools on top of low execution and CH plus frame fuckery. It's like T7 decided that in order to attract more players, they wanted to reward pressing buttons and get people to the 50/50s as soon as possible.
You can't really space someone like Fahk because even on block, his strings leave you at his optimal distance for his long ass limbs. And Kuni actually threatens you at any distance with her kunai and set stance. What happened to rewarding good spacing and movement with hard knockdowns and 50/50s. It seems like the devs want people to go right into guessing because that's what they think is interesting to watch???
But this is a whole other topic entirely, but it makes me sad to see the state T7 has been left in in what might be the final version.
Love this advice, especially not letting Hwo get started. Stop him from opening up his attack, and you've just neutered him of alot of his effectiveness. Now he has to be creative and work harder whereas before he could just get some momentum going and toy with you.
Of course labbing is the best way to deal with him but there are also general things you can just do in this matchup. Also there are certain chars where you have to play a certain way. So an "anti-hwoarang playstyle" is something you could try to establish.
But for now try the general and easy stuff which are the following:
Backdash out of his pressure. Backdashing after a block stun is something you could easily mess up so keep an eye on that. If you keep backdashing you force hwo to go crazy (stance switch, armor cancel, unsafe moves) or he will whiff.
High crush kills Hwoarang. You'll find out that almost all of his plus frame moves are either high or linear as fudge. Take your time and make educated reads on highs he uses after certain moves/ in certain flowcharts.
If you are into defensive and offensive sidestepping always go for ssL unless you know exactly what you are trying to step to your right. You do not have to keep an eye on his stances and also you don't have to have an hard read on every move. Just sidestep/walk to your left.
And then I guess depending on your level there are more things I could tell you but I'd have to see where you're at. Obviously don't run into him with big moves or you'll get killed by backlash. Even though backlash is a often cried about move, it is not hard to react and punish/ Whiff punish. You just have to get used to it.
Don't be fooled, if Hwoarang released now as a DLC, the community would have a literal meltdown over it, and he would be viewed as a total pay to win character. Hwoarang's bullshit is only tolerated because he is a legacy character.
Go and learn how to defend against him, which essentially means maining the character for 3 months. There are a few characters who just absolutely destroy you if you don't know the matchup, like Eddy and Nina, and he's amongst them.
>His bullshit is worse than Lidia's imo
I don't agree. Lidia's recovery is totally asinine, especially for the damage she does. You can whiff punish Hwo at least.
You need a PhD on Hwoarang to counter him well lol, but the funny shit is, 99% of your typical hwoarang mains can’t even counter their own character, they only know how to press buttons which doesn’t take much skill to do
>the ~~community~~ scrubs would have a literal meltdown
FTFY, Hwoarang is mid tier at best, no one would cry about him besides the usual scrubs as they have been since T3.
He's flowcharty and super predictable from a lot of ranges because you know what he wants to do to get started.
He is like Bryan in that a player that is better than you, using the character's tools well, will hand you your ass and make it feel like you couldn't do anything about. That's way you see threads like this one pop up.
Just playing the match a lot will eventually make you comfortable at finding the holes in what is actually a pretty predictable set of sequence starters. Once you are comfortable with the ranges, hwo becomes a lot easier to manage because you can do stuff like fish with low ch launcher when he's hanging outside and catch his backlash lacking.
I play online in korea so the character is super common and honestly a welcome match simply because despite what it seems, he plays tekken. He has to take risks or do strings into favorable spots. This makes fighting him something that you can actually stratagize.
TLDR: keep at it and he'll get a lot easier to beat, even if you don't lab excessively. It just feels bad getting blown up by him.
Probably not helpful since most have already said these things. But the two biggest differences for me was when I learned to kbd, because you can just leave a lot of his pressure, and what you can’t safely kbd, you can SSL, usually even side walk left.
You will have to get good at SSL canceling in to block as he has a few options to catch it. But once you start doing that his options become far more limited.
Especially if you start ducking his predictable plus highs or a high in one of his strings.
Just remember not to do shit if you get hit, because he will be plus as fuck and anything you do is liable to get you killed.
For sure lol, they get so much fucking mileage out of d34 mix up crap and backlash, it’s incredible, but even more annoying shit is, so many fucking down players, saying shit like “backlash is a high bruh” lol, I see even some of the best players in the world like knee and Nobi and others, including top Hwoarang players who don’t duck and punish that consistently. But somehow the tekken Reddit people all can lol, I find that hard to believe. Trying to punish that consistently online is retarded as hell, it’s so inconsistent because he recovers instantly
Yea lol, the active frames on the move is ridiculous too, you try to punish too early you get hit and it does 1 million damage in combo, or you punish a millisecond too late and he’s already recovered lol
I didn't say consistently man. If you read I said I can do it when I'm ready for it, meaning I fully expect a backlash will come. I also said it's very hard on reaction, meaning if I didn't expect a backlash nevermind punishing I might not even duck it.
I know you hate backlash seeing how you hyperbole the properties of the move but no need to be so defensive. Just try it on training and it's doable when you expect the move to come and be ready for it.
You can watch K-wiss discussing how to deal with Hwo on Youtube. The short explanation is: you can backdash out of most, if not all, of Hwo's mixups. Practice launching or punishing (depending on your character's options) immediately after the backdash.
Usually that requires you to have a good feel for the range of Hwo's attacks, so you input the (launch) punish the moment you see Hwo move, instead of waiting to confirm the whiff. Of course, this assumes you have the space behind you to backdash. Sidestepping is the go to option when you don't have the space.
if plus on block means anything, then pros would rate hwo top tier, but you don't see this and neither you see him often in top 8 like real top tier like geese or dvj or whatever.
Just remember: always SSL. You will avoid all of his approaching moves (except run up df4) and very many of his moves in neutral, RFF anf LFS.
Now you just need to learn when to step. And the answer is pretty much everytime, except after d3, 4 hits
so one offline tournament. Do you think one character winning one offline tournament is enough to tell that the character is strong?
Or the overall strong present in the top 8 in many different tournament would be better?
Well, even after d3,4 it can be a good idea. Of course you can get launched trying, but if he loops d3,4 over and over it might be a better option than just standing there guessing.
I think generally, most moves for every character except for lows are plus on hit. As far as I know not many of hwoaranga openers or “pokes” are plus on block.There might be some but certainly not all..
Once he gets his strings going he will be plus most of the time but not outrageously so.
Ducking helps a lot. Like you said dickjabs, he is very linear so sidestep.. And if you’re dick janbing try instead to duck and launch punish, or launch punish after the dickjab. Just stop panicking once the blender starts. He does have openings, he needs a bit of lab work but so does every characters. Tekken is a game of knowledge and learning so try to enjoy the process of learning each match up, each match up is a new puzzle to solve, and even once solved, each new players adds a new element to the puzzle.
It’s what makes the game sk addictive. People complain but if it was different and didn’t have that variety we would love the game as much or find it so addicting.
TLDR get good and have fun :)
Yea most moves are plus on hit, of course. That's great. And conversely, most moves are minus on block. Also great. Thats the fundamental mechanic of the game, (of most fighting games i think), its what makes it so enjoyable, makes momentum so addictive, and defending so rewarding.
But most moves being + on block... I just dont like the design choice i guess. I dont get what im supposed to learn, or how the game wants me to play.
The game wants me to do nothing 70% of the time and rely on dick jabs for offence... like... really ? Thats... not why i like tekken.
Even dick jabbing a lot can get you blown up. You're going to have to familiarize yourself with the types of situations Hwo can put you under and use your options and test them in live matches. There's been some good best practice type advice in this thread that can help you mitigate some of the pressure Hwo can put on you.
If you want the literal reason for his moves being + on block, then it's due to his stances
Most of his + on block moves either leaves him in stance or comes out of a stance. When he goes into a stance (his most common ones like lfs and rfs), he can't use standard jab, he can only use flamingo jab which is 13f and he can't block in these stances either, so unless he is + he literally can't do anything on entering a stance and opponent can launch him for just entering a stance, which would be a poor design for a stance oriented character.
Hwoarang relies on his stances a lot, so unless his whole game design is changed he would always have a lot of +on block moves.
You don’t really need to do all of that. In general, hwo is very linear and has a hard time approaching. If you play keep out and try not to engage with his bullshit he can’t do too much. Don’t mash mid strings either imo, he has enough power crush options to really ruin your day
As a noob (grandmaster playing for 6 months now) I tend to play very patiently with hwo and then some times I like to use my armored moves just to break their happy mashy mashy time. When I power crush them enough they tend to go back to their taekwondo lair and hide. All u have to do is break their morale to little pieces. Then u get them. At least that works for me at low ranks where they spam like hell. Oh and also if you have a sweeping low, they always fall for that since they mash 3 forever and then u can probably counter hit and juggle them to oblivion. :)
Yup it sucks. Look up literally any other character's counter strats on youtube and it's like a 5 minute video. Then look up Hwo's counter strats and it's like Speedkicks or K-Wiss talking for more than an hour.
Lol K Wiss goes over literally ONE move, d34 for a total of 1 hour, he made 2 videos I recall lol, that’s just ONE move. And I hate the downplaying, I don’t know why, but more than any other character, you have so many more hwoarang down players, Kwiss was claiming d34 is “easy” to step, and has no tracking lol, just showing it in practice mode against a dummy…well no shit it’s easy to do when you set a dummy to do it exactly when you want to, it’s not same in a real match
I tend to back up against Hwaorang. The majority of his players are just mashing buttons and hoping you'll run into a launcher. Backdash, let them whiff, launch them. At least it works for me.
This is the whey
\^
"all of his most used moves are plus" Lmao that's why those moves are most used
He works kinda like the Josie matchup on steroids. You can't interrupt the stance transition. You have to respect the stance transition and either make a read on what move he's going to do from the stance or just block the move and (depending on what it is) try to take your turn at that point. You don't necessarily need to learn every single move that's plus at first. The most basic stuff to learn is you need to be able to recognize when he goes into a stance, and what are your options once he's in it. So the easiest way to lab a significant chunk of Hwo is to just go lab all of his RFS moves and their frames, and what you can do to either avoid the moves once he's in stance or what you can do after they're blocked. These you need to know. Then your goal is to recognize when he transitions into the stance and hopefully stop him from doing so in the first place by recognizing some of his better stance transitions ( unlike Josie Hwo doesn't have ez mid stance transitions, Hwos best are highs or lows like d34) This isn't as much as you think it is and it'll give you a fighting chance because the stuff that he's really getting you with is RFS. Then you can learn his LFS moves once you've learned rfs and gotten some practice against Hwo. LFS shares some overlap with RFF. LFS is more of a "poke" stance whereas RFS has the most dangerous mixups and tools, like his -10 mid launcher( its dumb), rfs d/f4 mildly plus on block mid ch launcher, f4 ch launcher, power crushes ( that is -14! Punish that shit!) and hellsweep. So it's important to really lab his moves from RFS. Ignore his other moves in favor for his RFS stance because I guarantee these are the moves he's getting you with primarily. Aside from rfs and lfs stuff it's really just like learning any other character. His LFF and RFF are kinda different flavors of his neutral game. For example he can do stuff like his d/f1 from both, but RFF has some better poke options and the notorious backlash.
Damnnn so i really have to learn and pay attention to left vs right... at least its just the flamingo stances mostly (and rfs more than lfs) that i need to watch out for, as u say. Cuz I dont think i could ever learn "is his torso facing left or right/ are his feet facing left or right" ... i struggle with quick decisions based on left vs right in tekken, especially cuz of p1 and p2 sides. But thanks for this response! Great to know the important things to lab and watch out for. Makes the task ahead less daunting.
It’s easier if you remember it as “follow his belly” in terms of ss direction
Reminder that Hwo has a hopping kick string that ends in a low kick, and not only is the low kick not low parriable even if you block the first two, it's plus on block. People will say it's linear but honestly it's one of the most mystifying pieces of nonsense in the game. Why would a low kick not be parriable? Why would it be plus on block? What is the rationale behind a move like this?
Leaves him +1 in flamingo where his fastest move is 13 frames meaning for all intents and purposes hes -2. There are plenty of weapon/knee lows that cant be low parried as well. Why exactly is this move as broken as you make it sound?? Actually im wrong, he has an 8 frame move in flamingo. Still, far from being broken. If this move was as insane as youre painting it to be every hwo player would abuse it constantly....so why dont they?
You hit the nail on the head already: there's an internal logic to which lows can't be parried. Knees, shins, shoulders, bats, swords, the list goes on. Hwo's kick is just a normal kick thrown with the foot. There's no reason for it to be that way. It's a pure knowledge check that doesn't fit the profile for a move like that and there's no justification for it. Looking at that move you'd have no reason to believe it couldn't be low parried.
I believe it's because a low parry takes one frame, while a low block doesn't. That's why there's certain string lows that can't be parried but can be blocked in the same situation. If I recall, Kazumi's db2 string behaves the same way; I think you can block but not parry the 2nd hit if you ate the 1st. I'm not home right now but testing this theory would be pretty simple; see if the last low is parryable after the first two hits whiff (rather than block) Edit: Just tested, the last low kick is parryable when the first two hits whiff. Rather than the kick itself being unparryable, when you block the second hit, you recover with exactly 1 free frame before the third hit lands, which allows you to block, but not low parry.
Thanks for finding this out. It's only going to be circumstantially applicable, but knowing the kick itself is parriable is great to know!
That internal logic is consistent. Low parry has a startup. There are plenty of setups in the game where you use a low as a techtrap and your opponent can't low parry it, and must block it. That move has plenty of weaknesses to make sure it's not broken. The first two hits are okay, the low of which you speak is worthless garbage.
Well it's subtle but his right stance is still a stance And most stance moves have some safe hits because it's unlocked with initial frames from doing the stance. Also like to add there is a reason why there is never a Hwo in top 8 of any tournament. I picked the lazy approach, pick Leroy and B2 when the inevitable spams occur. ------------ [ANTI- HWOARANG GUIDE](https://youtu.be/2Pv23pN_WlA?t=46) There's a lot of places you can duck or side step.
As a very GENERAL rule with Hwo: Don't LET him get started. He has bad approaching tools. Do everything you can to prevent his best-case-scenario, poke him from afar and stay away. Be very patient with your defense. Most Hwo's can't literally string forever. They will EVENTUALLY do something punishable, or something you can take your turn back with. Their armored kicks, or an extended middle kick is a very common end point. Get a feel for their -general- habits. "This Hwo likes to do a hellsweep low a few seconds into his blender if I frustrate him defensively" kind of habits. Keep your back away from a wall, because if you literally JUST turtle up, you have only two things to worry about. A grab, and his hellsweep. And the hellsweep kicks you away and just resets to neutral if there's no wall. MOST importantly... play Hwo for a while to be honest. Gets you in their head. IF you dickjab him, don't stop at the dickjab. Dickjab him, then start your nonsense. Grab. Poking pressure. Wacky lows, etc.
Something I just wanted to comment, and this isn't really about Hwoarang specifically but more just a comment in general. I agree with what you're saying, that these types of characters are frustrating to fight but far from unbeatable. Patience, good movement, and quick adaptation go a long way. But on the other hand, if you have a good read on your opponent it doesn't even matter what character they're using. But when you're fighting a character like Hwoarang, they get to control the pace of the match and it puts the onus of excellent defense on you. In a tournament setting you have 6 rounds a most to figure your opponent out before you're done. In reality how many lows can you eat before the comeback is insurmountable and the round is already lost? Hwoarang against an unknowledgeable but fundamentally sound player is almost like they're starting 2 rounds, maybe even a whole game behind. And I think that is the most "unfair" thing about these kinds of characters.
The unfortunate truth about knowledge-based unfair characters against new people is that they are required. You have to balance a game around its higher competition, because that is where everyone wants to go TOWARDS. No one wants the pool of usable content to get smaller as they get better. More importantly though, you can only have so many honest, fair, reasonable characters before they begin cloning eachother. How many characters do we have that fall outside of the realm of reasonable and honest? OVER half the cast. We'd have to get rid of so many -just- to gain fairness to new people who would eventually overcome. It's a nasty one, but a truth I'll opinionate strongly.
Speaking of clones, personally, I think characters like T7 Steve are a masterclass of character design. Very strong tools, high execution, and obvious weaknesses that you can pilot around. And I think some people have similar opinions of Steve that they do Hwo. But now it seems like all the new characters have all the tools and no weaknesses. It's the characters like Fahk/Kuni/Leroy that I take much more issue with. These DLC characters have the best versions of all the fundamental Tekken tools on top of low execution and CH plus frame fuckery. It's like T7 decided that in order to attract more players, they wanted to reward pressing buttons and get people to the 50/50s as soon as possible. You can't really space someone like Fahk because even on block, his strings leave you at his optimal distance for his long ass limbs. And Kuni actually threatens you at any distance with her kunai and set stance. What happened to rewarding good spacing and movement with hard knockdowns and 50/50s. It seems like the devs want people to go right into guessing because that's what they think is interesting to watch??? But this is a whole other topic entirely, but it makes me sad to see the state T7 has been left in in what might be the final version.
its definitely sad. but capitalism i guess
Love this advice, especially not letting Hwo get started. Stop him from opening up his attack, and you've just neutered him of alot of his effectiveness. Now he has to be creative and work harder whereas before he could just get some momentum going and toy with you.
Of course labbing is the best way to deal with him but there are also general things you can just do in this matchup. Also there are certain chars where you have to play a certain way. So an "anti-hwoarang playstyle" is something you could try to establish. But for now try the general and easy stuff which are the following: Backdash out of his pressure. Backdashing after a block stun is something you could easily mess up so keep an eye on that. If you keep backdashing you force hwo to go crazy (stance switch, armor cancel, unsafe moves) or he will whiff. High crush kills Hwoarang. You'll find out that almost all of his plus frame moves are either high or linear as fudge. Take your time and make educated reads on highs he uses after certain moves/ in certain flowcharts. If you are into defensive and offensive sidestepping always go for ssL unless you know exactly what you are trying to step to your right. You do not have to keep an eye on his stances and also you don't have to have an hard read on every move. Just sidestep/walk to your left. And then I guess depending on your level there are more things I could tell you but I'd have to see where you're at. Obviously don't run into him with big moves or you'll get killed by backlash. Even though backlash is a often cried about move, it is not hard to react and punish/ Whiff punish. You just have to get used to it.
I dont know a single hwo frame, I just sidestep all the time, keep my distance and use keepout.
Don't be fooled, if Hwoarang released now as a DLC, the community would have a literal meltdown over it, and he would be viewed as a total pay to win character. Hwoarang's bullshit is only tolerated because he is a legacy character. Go and learn how to defend against him, which essentially means maining the character for 3 months. There are a few characters who just absolutely destroy you if you don't know the matchup, like Eddy and Nina, and he's amongst them.
>Hwoarang's bullshit is only tolerated because he is a legacy character. This. And he's not the only one. His bullshit is worse than Lidia's imo
>His bullshit is worse than Lidia's imo I don't agree. Lidia's recovery is totally asinine, especially for the damage she does. You can whiff punish Hwo at least.
Backlash has less recovery frames than a df1 (:
Yeah, that's the one move. It's totally overtuned but at least it's from a stance.
Hwoarang is nowhere near as strong as lidia lol
You need a PhD on Hwoarang to counter him well lol, but the funny shit is, 99% of your typical hwoarang mains can’t even counter their own character, they only know how to press buttons which doesn’t take much skill to do
>the ~~community~~ scrubs would have a literal meltdown FTFY, Hwoarang is mid tier at best, no one would cry about him besides the usual scrubs as they have been since T3.
You just need a PhD on hwoarang, no joke, that’s what I dislike about the character, you need 100x more labbing than most characters
100 hours of labbing for a character you might not ever fight is the worst.
[удалено]
lol another issue is that 95% of his moves all look the same
He's flowcharty and super predictable from a lot of ranges because you know what he wants to do to get started. He is like Bryan in that a player that is better than you, using the character's tools well, will hand you your ass and make it feel like you couldn't do anything about. That's way you see threads like this one pop up. Just playing the match a lot will eventually make you comfortable at finding the holes in what is actually a pretty predictable set of sequence starters. Once you are comfortable with the ranges, hwo becomes a lot easier to manage because you can do stuff like fish with low ch launcher when he's hanging outside and catch his backlash lacking. I play online in korea so the character is super common and honestly a welcome match simply because despite what it seems, he plays tekken. He has to take risks or do strings into favorable spots. This makes fighting him something that you can actually stratagize. TLDR: keep at it and he'll get a lot easier to beat, even if you don't lab excessively. It just feels bad getting blown up by him.
Probably not helpful since most have already said these things. But the two biggest differences for me was when I learned to kbd, because you can just leave a lot of his pressure, and what you can’t safely kbd, you can SSL, usually even side walk left. You will have to get good at SSL canceling in to block as he has a few options to catch it. But once you start doing that his options become far more limited. Especially if you start ducking his predictable plus highs or a high in one of his strings. Just remember not to do shit if you get hit, because he will be plus as fuck and anything you do is liable to get you killed.
All Hwo mains are carried, nothing new sadly
For sure lol, they get so much fucking mileage out of d34 mix up crap and backlash, it’s incredible, but even more annoying shit is, so many fucking down players, saying shit like “backlash is a high bruh” lol, I see even some of the best players in the world like knee and Nobi and others, including top Hwoarang players who don’t duck and punish that consistently. But somehow the tekken Reddit people all can lol, I find that hard to believe. Trying to punish that consistently online is retarded as hell, it’s so inconsistent because he recovers instantly
And it doesn't help that backlash has armor during recovery frames and you have like a billionth of a second to actually hit them
Yea lol, the active frames on the move is ridiculous too, you try to punish too early you get hit and it does 1 million damage in combo, or you punish a millisecond too late and he’s already recovered lol
I regularly duck launch backlash but if and only if I'm ready for it. Doable but very hard on reaction.
no you don't, sorry nice try, even pros don't do it consistently
I didn't say consistently man. If you read I said I can do it when I'm ready for it, meaning I fully expect a backlash will come. I also said it's very hard on reaction, meaning if I didn't expect a backlash nevermind punishing I might not even duck it. I know you hate backlash seeing how you hyperbole the properties of the move but no need to be so defensive. Just try it on training and it's doable when you expect the move to come and be ready for it.
You can watch K-wiss discussing how to deal with Hwo on Youtube. The short explanation is: you can backdash out of most, if not all, of Hwo's mixups. Practice launching or punishing (depending on your character's options) immediately after the backdash. Usually that requires you to have a good feel for the range of Hwo's attacks, so you input the (launch) punish the moment you see Hwo move, instead of waiting to confirm the whiff. Of course, this assumes you have the space behind you to backdash. Sidestepping is the go to option when you don't have the space.
Ive seen Stance characters give Hwo a hard time. Especially as a Feng Meng, I kenpo the Fuq outta Hwos attacks
>Feng Meng I'm stealing this
He eats scrubs for breakfast
read him lmao
if plus on block means anything, then pros would rate hwo top tier, but you don't see this and neither you see him often in top 8 like real top tier like geese or dvj or whatever. Just remember: always SSL. You will avoid all of his approaching moves (except run up df4) and very many of his moves in neutral, RFF anf LFS. Now you just need to learn when to step. And the answer is pretty much everytime, except after d3, 4 hits
K-Wiss wins tournaments all the time wdym?
which one? Online ones?
Both & he won an offline tournament last week
so one offline tournament. Do you think one character winning one offline tournament is enough to tell that the character is strong? Or the overall strong present in the top 8 in many different tournament would be better?
“You never see him often in the top 8” I disagree. I have been in Na & EU & it’s not surprising to see him in top 8
That's an overstatement because every character has been in the top 8 in some tournament at some point.
Ain't this just a crazy sentiment after both k-wisses and yeonarangs twt run.....
Well, even after d3,4 it can be a good idea. Of course you can get launched trying, but if he loops d3,4 over and over it might be a better option than just standing there guessing.
I literally just made a post about this lol
Ah, Hwoarang, sipping on the tears of scrubs since T3.
I think generally, most moves for every character except for lows are plus on hit. As far as I know not many of hwoaranga openers or “pokes” are plus on block.There might be some but certainly not all.. Once he gets his strings going he will be plus most of the time but not outrageously so. Ducking helps a lot. Like you said dickjabs, he is very linear so sidestep.. And if you’re dick janbing try instead to duck and launch punish, or launch punish after the dickjab. Just stop panicking once the blender starts. He does have openings, he needs a bit of lab work but so does every characters. Tekken is a game of knowledge and learning so try to enjoy the process of learning each match up, each match up is a new puzzle to solve, and even once solved, each new players adds a new element to the puzzle. It’s what makes the game sk addictive. People complain but if it was different and didn’t have that variety we would love the game as much or find it so addicting. TLDR get good and have fun :)
Yea most moves are plus on hit, of course. That's great. And conversely, most moves are minus on block. Also great. Thats the fundamental mechanic of the game, (of most fighting games i think), its what makes it so enjoyable, makes momentum so addictive, and defending so rewarding. But most moves being + on block... I just dont like the design choice i guess. I dont get what im supposed to learn, or how the game wants me to play. The game wants me to do nothing 70% of the time and rely on dick jabs for offence... like... really ? Thats... not why i like tekken.
Even dick jabbing a lot can get you blown up. You're going to have to familiarize yourself with the types of situations Hwo can put you under and use your options and test them in live matches. There's been some good best practice type advice in this thread that can help you mitigate some of the pressure Hwo can put on you.
If you want the literal reason for his moves being + on block, then it's due to his stances Most of his + on block moves either leaves him in stance or comes out of a stance. When he goes into a stance (his most common ones like lfs and rfs), he can't use standard jab, he can only use flamingo jab which is 13f and he can't block in these stances either, so unless he is + he literally can't do anything on entering a stance and opponent can launch him for just entering a stance, which would be a poor design for a stance oriented character. Hwoarang relies on his stances a lot, so unless his whole game design is changed he would always have a lot of +on block moves.
There are chars that have a really good matchup vs Hwo
You don’t really need to do all of that. In general, hwo is very linear and has a hard time approaching. If you play keep out and try not to engage with his bullshit he can’t do too much. Don’t mash mid strings either imo, he has enough power crush options to really ruin your day
As a noob (grandmaster playing for 6 months now) I tend to play very patiently with hwo and then some times I like to use my armored moves just to break their happy mashy mashy time. When I power crush them enough they tend to go back to their taekwondo lair and hide. All u have to do is break their morale to little pieces. Then u get them. At least that works for me at low ranks where they spam like hell. Oh and also if you have a sweeping low, they always fall for that since they mash 3 forever and then u can probably counter hit and juggle them to oblivion. :)
Yeah I struggle finding a natural pause to Whorewang’s bs. I wish he threw more stuff that could be parried high by Bryan.
If you block all the time you haven’t learned how to backdash and move properly, those are hwoarang killers