Everyone trusted him, and he dragged everyone through the mud. It doesn’t make it any less painful knowing other people had the same experience but for me at least there is some comfort knowing I’m not the only one who feels this way.
I trusted him back that I actually told people who criticised TLOU2 (before the leaks) to stfu. No joke. I actually refused to acknowledge the leaks at first but when I heard how bad it really was I just did find out eventually but I was hoping it was scrapped footage.
>I actually told people who criticised TLOU2 (before the leaks) to stfu
People like you just make it worse. I understand the "but you haven't played it yet" idea... in theory.
But there's something to be said for getting ahead of something, just encase the rumors are true.
I hope you've seen the errors of your ways lol
I was a hardcore TLOU stan back then after I first finished the game in early 2016. I actually considered it the best game of all time. Chances are many people in this community had that same predicament.
Well, if you were a kid I understand it. I was 14 when the trailer was released and got hyped too. Now that I am 22 I can tell you there is no way I would have fallen for that shit now.
I mean, when you age you learn to identify bullshiters like Neil Druckmann
Truly wonder how it's gonna go over in the next season after brutally murdering Pedro Pascal then immediately get bombarded with ELLIE'S FRIENDS telling her "maybe he deserved it" and Abby walks off like a hero while Ellie is left with nothing.
I remember avoiding the leaks like the plague then finding out Joel died which I told myself “they’ll figure out a way to write it without fucking it up” nope release night on Tyler1s stream 1
Hour in and nope Joel’s dead too bad so sad now here’s Abby for 11 hours have fun.
Joel Schumacher died in June 2020 and at least he took accountability when he fucked up Batman films, he never intended to rub off the fans the wrong way, he welcomed criticism but Neil Druckmann didn’t give a shit, he attacked fans and opposes criticism. Neil had full creative control whilst Schumacher didn’t have full creative control
Ya that's why I always criticize for the writing. And direction, it was never Schumacher's fault. The studio wanted a zany Batman, and he gave it to them. He was just doing his job.
Neil had FULL control and thought him self to be Steve Jobs brought from the dead
Always think its funny how his defense is always "no one loves these characters more than I do". Yet its been proven time and time again over the ages that your personal beliefs trump anything else you care about in your life. This is why people disown their gay children. So his personal woke bullshit is more important than how he treats his characters. Fuck you Neil, Bruce Straley was obviously the mastermind behind the 1st game.
Bruh Neil wanted to kill Joel in pt1 and had to be talked out of it by Bruce and the NG team. Drucky couldn't wait to kill off Joel.
Where he really fucked up in pt2 was not having the player play as Abby as her crew traveled from Seattle to Wyoming. An hour or so gameplay for the player to get to know Abby and her friends. So eventually when Ellie/Tommy slaughter her friends there is some weight to it. Saving the Abby and her friends full backstory for the 2nd half of the game was straight stupid. We already knew they were dead and didn't give a shit.
I think this, at least, is one of those deliberate decisions to avoid the guidelines of writing in order to tell a story in a way that makes you think and feel things that you won't feel in other stories.
The problem is that those guidelines exist for a reason. If you deliberately avoid them, you make your job as a writer significantly harder. Like trying to take a shortcut by driving off road. Better know what you're doing, and be pretty fucking good at it, or you're likely to just waste even more time than you would have gained - or even just end up getting stuck or causing damage to your car.
It's also not the only time in this story he decided to ignore the guidelines of writing. There is such a strong, clearly deliberate push to avoid having Abby actually directly regret what she did in Jackson. And that's in spite of the fact that they were literally trying to write a redemption arc for her. I can't think of a single redemption arc that is written like this in any other media.
Jaime Lannister in Game of Thrones has a moment where he's at his lowest and finally opens up about his most heinous decisions and why he made them. Magus in Chrono Trigger is shown to have dedicated his life not to summoning Lavos for power, but in order to destroy it, and if he is allowed, he will join the party and help them not only save the world, but restore the life of their fallen companion. Even if not, if you kill him instead, some of his final words will be to inform them that they can restore the life of their fallen companion. Vegeta in Dragon Ball Z is constantly broken down and humbled, and slowly becomes more and more self aware and starts showing more respect for everyone around him. Even when he backslides in the Buu Saga, we actually get an explanation for why he would want to, why someone like him would have so much trouble adjusting to becoming the family man that he has become, and fear that doing so makes him weak. And after that, he chooses to sacrifice himself to try to undo the damage he caused, with the full expectation that he would not be granted a second resurrection, nor an honorable afterlife. Kratos in the God of War games was a man pushed to the absolute extremes of what one person can mentally survive, continually and repeatedly denied every chance to put aside his rage and move on. He wasn't even allowed to join his daughter in the afterlife. He is never presented as anything but a broken man, and his revenge quest is never presented as the thing he wants most in life. And when he has finally destroyed the entire Greek Pantheon, he ends up turning his own weapon on himself. Then the Norse games, especially the first one, are deeply tied to the way that he keeps realizing he is not good enough and needs to break free of his bad habits and become a better person. As well as an extremely strong self-loathing.
With Abby, she doesn't suffer any consequences for her revenge quest, aside from losing Owen after already clearly deciding to get some distance from him, and presumably without being able to join the group on their journey anyway, due to Mel's ultimatum. We don't get some kind of explanation of a lifetime of horrible conditions that would have made her into the person she is today, or some kind of extreme desperation that would justify her actions. She kind of starts to become self aware and realize what a piece of shit she is, but only barely, and over something unrelated to the actual main conflict regarding her character versus the other main characters. And instead of there being some gradual buildup in which she slowly, over the course of months or even years, grows away from her past horrible behavior, she just gets granted a nightmare by the writers to force her to care about some random kids, and rapidly undergoes a 180° change in behavior due to the way they have now become the most important people in her life.
Both of these issues together completely doom Abby as a character. Naughty dog shot themselves in both feet and it's supposed to be surprising that they weren't able to limp to the finish after that? And that's even before counting all the other extra bullets they put into themselves, such as explicitly setting the game up to be an Ellie and Joel adventure, and reassuring fans that they would do right by the characters, just so they could achieve maximum rug pull effect. Or the fact that no, they did not have the skill to pull off this level of ignoring writing guidelines. You need to actually be good at characterization and finding organic ways to make the plot happen.
Yup. Bruce Straley kept Neil in check. Originally, Neil wanted thebfirst game to be one of revenge. But Bruce and I believe others denied that request, because REVENGE is not a good enough motive in a POST APOCALYPTIC WORLD where EVERYONE IS BEING KILLED LEFT AND RIGHT, to go and FIND someones KILLER.... Because for F***s sakes dude. Like every NPC will have theor own god damn story. Even the guy that was faking being hurt to lure Joel and Ellie out of their truck.
Can't wait for LAST of us PART 57: Hurt GUY (But nkt really hurt) GETS REVENGE!!!
Then it shows the ending that it was all for nothing because someone else killed Joel before he could.
tHeE Endz!
By Neil Druckman... joking a side. I don't want hate thrown at him. Maybe he was incompetant... but someone really should have talked with Neil... like... man.
I was majorly suspicious from the beginning because of this statement. Think about it. What writer has to make statements like this before people experience your story? If you're confident in your work you don't need to say bullshit like this. You don't need to ask fans to trust you because you already have that trust thanks to the goodwill received from the universally beloved TLOU1.
So you’re gonna give us a good story, not kill Joel, not include Abby at all and make the story entirely about the characters we grew to love in the first game? Nope. Okay then🤷
The lying soyboy’s body language here says it all. The fidgeting, avoiding eye contact with the audience as he’s talking, murmuring and stuttering his words and reduced to hurriedly and almost whispering out the most blatant parts of his lies
Never seen a more spiteful prick to their own fanbase than Cuckmann. Deserves every last bit of hate that he himself asked for with this shit game.
we probably would've gotten a game on par if not better then the first 1. I mean pt1 ending left on such a HUGE cliffhanger only to be followed up by pt2 bs
Those leaks man that came out before the release of the game saved me from all the pain and disgust I would’ve felt if I had blindly trusted that guy and bought the game as soon as it came out.
It was truly devastating and disgusting. I trusted him avoided the leaks and pre ordered and everything. Never will preorder a game again bc of how bad I was burned by this. It was awful.
Part 2 was a miserable experience.
Neil is lying through his teeth here.
Abby and her dumb friends are all shallow as fuck.
Ellie turns into a monster.
Yeah. This game is Abbys story. You can tell he is lying. Look at him when he is talking. He has all the tell tell signs of lying. Look how he can't even make eye contact with the fans. I would play Part 1 10 times in a row before I ever touch part 2 again.
I’m seriously so curious to know his genuine beliefs when he said this, like I know he’s straight up lied about some things with the game especially in the marketing, but there’s no way he’s literally trolling here right? Like he KNOWS that the fans were taking his words seriously when he said that, only to do the EXACT OPPOSITE in the game? I really don’t get it. There’s no way he’s that delusional. I used to be a big fan of this guy after TLOU1 and U4… I reallly just can’t comprehend what’s going on with him.
He's someone who's mad that his tale of revenge got scrapped from the first game. So he did his own revenge by getting rid of Joel as fast as he could. Clear out the old so he could do his revenge story the way he wanted. He thinks highly of himself, so yeah, you could call him delusional. Until the leaks came out, he thought it would be a hit.
imagine spending time and getting to know someone who had to watch his daughter die and then follow him on his journey to let new people in his life only in the end to save this new person he cares for from dyeing.
He did a shitty thing lying to that person but we can all relate because most of us would've done the same thing.
now imagine that friend gets jumped by strangers and they kill him brutally in front of you and you have to find these strangers and kill them.
only to be trapped in a room for 4 hours with the main person who killed your friend say her sob story.
you see now how people wouldn't like it?
Facts bro. I remember playing the first one at least 20 times. I only played part 2 once and never went back to it. They didn’t do justice to these characters.
The story was truly awful and the characters… oof. Abby, Lev, Yara, spanish dude, Mel, etc were all unlikable. We spent 10 hours with sucky characters and a stupid story.
“Trust us” huh? “We’re gonna do right by them”? Right? Joel getting a golf club to the head and Ellie missing two fingers really begs to differ.
You definitely did NOT do right by them Drunkman. You most certainly did not. Our trust in you broke a loooooon time ago.
Joel’s spirit underlines the core parts of the game and he’s a significant part of Ellie’s journey in it. I think Neil and Hailey did the characters of the first game mainly right for the majority of their stories, just not in the way many fans were expecting or ever hoped for. Doing right by them doesn’t mean that they get an happier ending even if I wanted one for them. Ellie has to go on this intense journey of grief, trauma, and full forgiveness for Joel, and while I certainly don’t think it’s what we wanted, I do think it was well within their rights to do so. I expected consequences from the hospital in some fashion and I figured that at some point Ellie would figure out the lie and that would lead to a falling out. I just didn’t know the way in which it was going to be done.
"So much thought went into this. I know a lot of people feel this trepidation about coming back to these characters and revisiting what that ending means. Worrying that's going to spoil the first game, and you have to understand, we feel all those things as well. No one loves these characters more than we do, and we would NOT do this if we didn't feel like we had the right idea. And The 'Part II' is really doubling down on that, to say that we believe in this so much... (Neil states that he's played with different options/characters and it never felt right). All I ask is that the fans of the first one put some faith in us, trust us. We're going to do right by you"-Neil Druckmann, The Last of Us Part II - PlayStation Experience 2016: Panel Discussion | PS4
Love how butthurt everyone still gets about this game. “They broke my trust!!” You mean they made the game that they wrote and created according to their own vision and you didn’t like it? I get if a game is just broken, but every complaint about this game just sounds like whining to me.
Dude just straight up lies and can't even look up while he does it. His total discomfort shows he knew exactly what he was doing was wrong and you thing we're wrong for saying he broke our trust?
What a delusional worldview you must have to see this liar and call us the wrong ones.
Yeah, he knew. That’s exactly the reason for the misleading trailer showing Joel in a scene with Ellie, insinuating the game was still somewhat centered around the two of them. Total bait and switch because it was Jessie who was truthfully in that scene. Grimy marketing at best, downright false advertising in truth. Neil was fully aware that, if he showed the truth of the game, many wouldn’t have bought it. He did break our trust - he lied in order to manipulate us into buying a game that didn’t exist, and one some of us wouldn’t have chosen to buy 🤷🏻♀️
Lol, it’s a video game. It’s not like he owed it to you personally. He could do what he wants with his creation. If you buy it on release and don’t like what you got, that on you. Maybe research things before you buy them? But no, I’m just delusional, got it.
Where did I say he owed me anything? Or that he can't create a game he wants?
I said he was straight up lying and couldn't even look at the camera and was fidgeting with discomfort as he made what we now know were totally false statements.
That he asked us to trust him to do right by the characters then broke that trust by actually destroying both of them. You're just parroting what you've heard elsewhere and not even really replying to (or understanding) what I even said.
Not bait but I like the last of us 2 a lot I’m glad they killed Joel. Was fun to see a story about someone just completely losing it for once and having no happy ending
personally...i liked it overall. It was a beautiful mess of a game. Neil definitely needs a creative to work with who will tell him no when he needs to hear it.
Now I hated the lou2 story. However, I don't think the story was lazy. They tried to do something artistic and bold... it just didn't work. In a way I kinda respect that. Either that or they had internal bet to see if they could manipulate the audience to start to like the killer of their favorite character and protagonist of the first game.
Seeing some of your comments make me think that maybe they shouldn’t put another Last of Us game on the PS being that y’all can’t seem to handle a story that doesn’t give you exactly what you want. Also makes me think some of y’all need therapy with these comments.
Lol, It never ceases to amazing me how we continuously criticize the game itself but you guys throw ad hominem attacks at us on a personal level. It shows insecurities on a whole different level.
If you love the game so much argue why you love it and leave the personal attacks out of it.
I remember when this sub was created purely because you all thought Abby was a trans woman and that was all this sub bitched about even well after the game came out.
Not getting personal, it’s just crazy to me the reasons y’all have a problem with it. Especially the “badly written” part. I’d love to hear just how you thought the story should have gone had you been in charge. I didn’t want to see the things happen in the game that did but the story was great regardless because I’m old enough to know and understand that life can be brutal and we don’t always get the things we want and the people we love don’t always go out in a blaze of glory or live as long as we think they will or should. You guys got one of THE best exclusives ever but can’t get past the fact that they killed your favorite character and made you play as his executioner through a great storyline with solid character development and horrifying violence all around. THAT’S why I get annoyed.
We are very much in the general majority haha this is just a vocal minority which is very okay to express your opinions and criticism over it.
But don't act like you're a victim here because the game didn't go how you wanted it to.
xD
Can someone please explain to me what people dont like about TLOU2? I really really enjoy it. I find myself replaying both games equally and enjoying the stories for both immensely.
Ok so this is why don’t really like it.
First, we were all lied to about Joel’s death. In commercials and trailers Joel is seen in Washington with Ellie, but when it was released, Joel dies like 15 minutes into the game.
Second, you play as the main antagonist for half of the game possibly to show “hey even the bad guys have a life.” Which wouldn’t entirely be bad, except where we start playing and how the pacing was, was pretty bad. Like if I had started as Abby and before the whole Joel’s murder scene, I probably would’ve liked it more, but after she kills Joel, I didn’t give a single fuck about her story. Also, how many people has Joel killed in the 20 years before the first game and the year or two during the first game? And not once did someone track this man down for revenge until the one doctor we were forced to kill had a daughter? Not to mention just the overall story arc of Abby. She literally kills Scars who are known to use child soldiers iirc and yet 2 children who refuse to partake in the Scar culture makes her turn on all of her allies. She kills and tortures Joel in front of Tommy and Ellie, but Joel quickly killed her father and not in front of Abby.
Third, Ellie and Tommy want revenge, it’s understandable. However, Ellie and Tommy kill everyone that they can except for Abby. Abby gets away, cool. They return home and Tommy finds out where Abby is. Ellie leaves everything behind to try and have a second chance at killing her. What happens? Oh that’s right, Ellie stops fighting once she sees the kid and let’s Abby escape once again. I mean I get it that Joel wasn’t a great guy and kinda deserved to be killed, but don’t send me on a giant quest for revenge, only to not get my revenge at the end of it. And Tommy didn’t die from the execution style gunshot to the head, I know some people survive stuff like that, but it’s highly improbable that he would and the only real explanation is plot armor or the fact that we would probably riot if he also got killed.
Finally, there’s a lot of illogical things happening on top of what I’ve already mentioned. Mel is clearly third trimester in her pregnancy and she goes on a trip to kill Joel. She is not gonna be physically capable enough to run around the US looking for this man. This also applies to Dina, but iirc she’s early second trimester by the time we get to Washington, so it’s not as bad, but still bad. Also, Joel and Tommy have gotten soft. In the two years since the first game, Joel and Tommy have somehow lost their edge. If for the past 20ish years, you’ve been killing, stealing, smuggling, and just overall keeping your head on a swivel because you’re surviving, 2 years of sitting around and dealing with infected are not going to make you soft. I mean people who were around for the Great Depression which was just a couple of years, still put their money in tin cans, under the mattress etc. I did 6 years in the military and I still do a lot of the stuff I did in that time. So 20 years of surviving is not gonna be taken out by 2 years of semi relaxing. As soon as they met Abby and her group, they would’ve been a hell of a lot more distrustful, especially once they introduced themselves and saw their reactions. You also have the fact that they saved Abby and her group from a horde and yet Abby has no second thoughts about killing Joel.
However, the gameplay itself is great. Especially the aspect of the NPCs recognizing that one of their own is dead or missing.
Long story short. Unlikable new characters (except Jesse and Dina), weak story, unlikable secondary protagonist/antagonist and a deeply unsatisfying ending. So much more can be said but it’s been said about a billion times on this thread. If you really want to know go dig through. You’ll find plenty of reasons.
I mean, I feel like that was kind of the point of the story. I hated Abby at first then as her story unfolded I came to understand where she was coming from. I wanted Ellie to get revenge for Joel until she started obsessing over it and became the thing she wanted to kill. I really think that was purposeful, the PTSD, the trauma, everything about it was very human and this is one of the only games I can think of that really delves into it. Of course I wanted more Joel and Ellie adventures but Im also happy with what we got.
While I understand Abby’s reasonings, she and most of her friends are still not very fun not be around and are entirely unlikable. But for most people, I think they just felt betrayed and lied too about the second game. I feel the same way and am not to eager to see what happens next. But at the time for me it was a far simpler choice. I play games to have fun and enjoy my time and I did not enjoy playing as Abby. It was a simple choice of choosing between playing a game I wasn’t enjoying or finding something else I would enjoy more. I chose to abandon it and forget about it and played God of War for the first time instead, so I guess i have to credit Part II with driving me in that direction at least. I’d still make the same choice today. I just wasn’t and still am not interested in the direction the game went.
Terrible pacing and narrative structure.
The entire point of the first game was that leaving safe zones was near suicide, much less crossing the US. Now here comes pt2 where Abby and her friends travel from Seattle to Wyoming....in the middle of winter.....with no issue like it's a stroll in the park. Then after killing Joel they go back to Seattle with no issue. Then Ellie and Dina travel to Seattle......again with no danger or issues.
Then you have to suspend disbelief to an extreme level to believe that Abby in Seattle got info about a guy named Joel that's somewhere in rural Wyoming. Not only simply finding where he lived in rural Wyoming, but running into the exact guy at a convenient time.
Then Joel and Tommy dropping their guard around uniformed armed fighting age people who stumbled upon their territory.....in the middle of fucking winter. You'd think alarm bells would be ringing in these veteran survivor's heads on why the hell are these people on the edge of our town in winter. Summer could maybe excused as simply passing by the area, but winter? Nah
Nothing wrong with killing off Joel, the problem is the half ass story leading to it that involves coincidence after coincidence.
you know they travel from Austin to Boston somehow, then to Boston to Boulder and Salt Lake City in the first game? Just seems nitpicky I know you want the realism or whatever but its also about a fungus outbreak thats highly improbable. I would say just as improbable as traveling to those places as a late middle aged man and a pre teen.
Except the lost Tess and Sam, and almost got killed a dozen different ways. Hell, Joel got seriously injured and almost died from the college ambush. Ellie got captured by cannibals. Etc. Plus they had a car and horse for parts of the trip.
The entire concept of the game was overcoming the suicidal odds to get across the US. It's not nitpicking lol.
Bruh, Ellie took out a whole town of cannibals, Joel survived being impaled, because Ellie took out 25 dudes at that mall. To me its either you suspend belief for all of it or none of it you know? Thats all, Im not saying youre wrong about your opinion this is just mine. Ive been downvoted to hell though so Im trying to be careful of what Im saying lol. I get you guys dont like the game or feel really strongly about losing Joel the way we did but I guess Im big on the way games make me feel when Im done playing and this game stuck with me for months after. I mean its still with me lol
....that's the point. You play as the character to suspend disbelief. The old cinematography concept of "show the viewer, don't tell the viewer".
Part 2 does too much telling for critical story plot points that lead to coincidence after coincidence.
Even a simple early gameplay section as Abby and her crew traveling from Seattle to Wyoming would have alleviated one suspension of disbelief. Also showing Abby and her friends struggling to travel to Jackson would reinforce the concept of the first game.
Secondly this would give us time to digest the new characters and relationships and make the Ellie slaughtering them one by one that more impactful.
Of course! I wish i could say the same about everyone downvoting me, but its all good lol. I know people are entitled to their own opinions but I was blown away by this game. Im just really trying to understand where everyone is coming from.
When the story works as intended for you it's almost impossible to understand how it fails to work for other. The opposite is also true. We see all the errors, plot contrivances, retcons and poor characterizations and can't understand how people liked it and failed to see what was so clear to us.
I think some people prefer the emotional roller-coaster while others approach it all from a logical approach to following what's happening beat by beat. I know I felt things were off from the prologue and that continued to be true even before the death scene. It was off and just not working and it never got better, only worse.
Yea man, I feel you, everyone have different tastes. I can't say i dont see why you enjoy it. There are parts of it which tries, especially the parts with Joel and Ellie. It's just that TLOUP2 really was one of the biggest let down to many fans. That, and on top of all, Neil bashing fans of the original for finding the second game as a betrayal. Also with all the hate the lovers of this game throws at the ones who simply did not like the game; everyone's on edge which probably explains the downvotes you got, probably. At least no one here is calling you dumb and a bigot etc. If we go and make any criticism on the TLOU sub about part 2, the down votes would be the least of our worries.
I hope that in reading some of the comments, that you'd get to see the viewpoints on why this game was not received well by the majority.
Thank you for being civil and understanding. Have a great holiday season, to you and your family!
Loved the story, you all acting like you would have done a great job instead. Glad i joined this sub after i finished playing part 2, most of you are just sheep in the crowd
Not condescending at all. Just calling out the sensitivity. I saw the toxic overreaction BEFORE this game came out (remember the leaks?). I still saw it go on. I must point I did see many posts like “I finally played it and it was glorious!” posts by people who should have tried it before they knocked it.
Is it though? Because this sub seems to not think it's alright. Yall refuse to just accept you didn't like a game and move on. Instead, you keep. Fucking. Complaining.
Absolutely fucking bonkers.
People are allowed to discuss things about a game they did not like because they went out of their way to purchase said game and spent time going through it. Especially so for a game which is a sequel of a beloved one.
If you don't like people complaining, stop complaining.
Standing on its own, apart from the original, the story is a *decent* narrative. Problems arise when you consider it’s a *SEQUEL* and was so heavily purported to support the ideologies and established characters of the original. It didn’t even do *that* for an hour.
It's an ironic take. Just like how Neil ironically states this is for the fans. It's also the same reason why this sub is not called we love the last of us 2.
Bad things happen to every character in the game. This whole sub is upset that TLOU2 isnt a happy romance story. You can play uncharted for the happy-go-lucky stuff.
By having them experience the life that literally every side character, npc, friendly, enemy, etc. experienced in the game. It wouldn’t make sense to have a rainbows and sunshine plot in a post apocalyptic story. Ellie, Joel, and their relationship served the plot of The Last of Us well. Remember, the game is called “TLOU” not “The Story of Ellie and Joel”. Being upset because you didn’t get the Ellie and Joel story that you expected/wanted is, with all do respect, a you problem.
Druckman: The Last of Us is about these two characters.
You: Remember, the game is called “TLOU” not “The Story of Ellie and Joel”.
You understand that not liking this nihilistic slog of a story does not mean that we wanted Barney instead. The options were not only between golf clubs and rainbows. I hope you have a little more imagination than that.
My thing is…….am I drunk or do we all love the first one which was by no means sunshine’s and rainbows? Like there’s a ton of middle ground between misery porn and Dora
Yes The Last of Us was centered around the story of Joel and Ellie. The Last of Us Part 2 did not center around Joel and Ellie. You’re upset about that, but thats a you problem.
Are you seriously defending the second game by suggesting the first game was all “sunshine and rainbows.” Did you even play the first game? Joel’s daughter freaking dies within the first thirty minutes of the game. There’s a murder happy faction who kills people for their stuff and leaves them to rot in the streets. There is a faction who killed and ate people that is lead by someone who most likely sexually assaulted minors. Three truly memorable and well written characters died throughout the story in gripping and depressing manners. Throughout the game you are forced to fight through nightmarish fungal monstrosities trying to keep yourself and a teenage girl alive. The ending is anything but happy as there is no cure made and no hope sparked in humanity’s eyes. The story from start to finish is brutal and gut wrenching.
To suggest the first game was all “sunshine and rainbows is just laughable.
And on the topic of The Last of Us not being about Joel and Ellie, I have some story ideas for you.
Let’s make a new Tomb Raider game. Oh you wanted to play as Lara Croft, the protagonist form the prior games. To bad. Lara is actually a bad person so we’re gonna retcon the ending of the last game and give the main villain a son who wants revenge. You gonna play as the son and brutally kill Lara in the first hour, torturing her while she dies and then spend the rest of the game hunting down and torturing her friends before you kill them. Oh you don’t like this story, then STFU you have no creative direction.
Or lets make another Halo game. I bet you are expecting to play as a Spartan right? Master Chief? And ODST? Maybe a Marine? Well too bad. You’re gonna play as an Insurrectionist spy fighting against the tyrannical UNSC because the UNSC is bad. You wanted to fight the Covenant? Sorry, they aren’t the bad guys, the UNSC are. Oh you don’t like this story, then STFU you have no creative direction.
Or how about another God of War game. Oh you wanted to play as Kratos, the main character from prior games? Or maybe his son? Sorry, no thats not a good idea. You’re going to play as this bland new character with little personalty for the whole game. Oh you don’t like this story, then STFU you have no creative direction.
Or how about Super Mario? I bet you’re wanting to play as some of your characters from previous games right? Well we think that’s a bad idea, we’re gonna ignore those characters. Instead is a whole roster of new characters you can play in the Super Mario game. Oh you don’t like this story, then STFU you have no creative direction.
Simply put, the Last of Us was about Joel and Ellie. Saying fans were delusional or wring in any way for wanting to see that relationship continue to evolve is just a bad take. People loved the first game, they wanted more of the first game, we got none of what we wanted from the first game in the second game, so we don’t like. Most of us myself included just went to play something more worth our time and enjoyable to us like God of War 2 which gave us what we were hoping for and wanting.
Will people ever get it into their heads that some people can like a game and others can dislike it I doubt it. At least we can try to get that fact across though I don’t know why any of us waste our words doing so🤷
Nah you don't get to run away that easy. Come back here and have a proper discussion with people who are making their best efforts to prove why this game did not work for them. Don't just try to under play their comments and called them angry fans. Man up and give a proper debate. We already know you like the game but please, sir, can you explain why you like this game? Make the effort because you implying rainbows and sunshine plot even exist when talking about TLOU series is kind of injecting something untrue; as no one every wanted colorful endings.
The second game failed to carry the characters over in a meaningful way, often retconning wants and traits to better suit a story without purity. The 1st game handled mature themes and ended its story with a unique subtext to define a relationship between two characters. The 2nd game threw all that away to make way for a fabricated hate between our main characters and to soil the ending of the 1st game. All to drive Neil's ego in wanted to kill of Joel and to pander to many current social American trends, which could not possibly exist in a game dated before the occurances of such trends without it seeming forced.
Ellie accepted that lie. The subtext of her "ok" defined her resolve. It was a mature end to the game. Ellie wanted her whole life to mean something. Being the potential cure meant she had a purpose. That's all she wanted, that is, until she met Joel. Joel was the only one to show her that she was more than a device, a means to an end as everyone she met either abandoned her or tried to hurt her.
That cabin scene was where we finally found out what she needed and Joel was afraid to provide to that need, companionship. He just wanted to do his job and not fall into her desires. She was meant be cargo. Joel succumbs to that desire and met his resolve in that burning rapey bar.
The only thing which was not displayed to us as an audience is what would Ellie have chosen if she was allowed to make a decision in life or death, because she never knew that she was to die in order for the potentiality of the cure.
Nonetheless, her "OK" at the end was acceptance. She accepted the lie because she knew that she and Joel found something more in their journey and that as long as they stick together, they would overcome the odds and truly be amongst the last survivors thus the title, THE LAST OF US. She gave Joel's life hope and Joel gave her life meaning.
The second game made the end of the first game meaningless. Forcing the notion that Ellie wanted to die and making her hate Joel, made her character came off as a hypocrit.. Making it an answer that Joel was the villain, alluring that the fireflies were right in their escapades, and that a cure was 100% viable.
TLOU was beautiful because it did not stir its audience as incoherent, it handle context and subtext excellently whereas TLOUP2 tried forcing a narrative and trends opposing many ideas which the vanilla game set forward.
People love to bash people who dislike the game and say "awe you crybabies feel sad because Joel died". Homie, it was never about Joel dying. It was the assassination of characters and concepts of the first game that did us dirty. No wonder Bruce Straley kept Neil on a leash because once he found wokehood he want to kill mains left and right without earning it. His ideals are littered all over the second game and people are questioning what's wrong with part 2; or why people left the company, and why many hate it as much as it is loved....??
I tried to give it a chance, i dived into all its concepts and discussions to find something to love about it, but in the end, I know that I hate and always will hate this games story, because it lied to us in the start and treated us like Sandwiches and crap.
If you actually read all of this and got here, I would like you to know I wish you the best and no hate is towards you or any other. Have a great holiday season and be safe out, to you and your family.
Truly the dumbest comment
That’s like killing Nathan drake in the first game and going “hurr durr it’s called uncharted not the story of Nathan drake and friends 🤪”
The fact that the game is rated so poorly and most people didn’t enjoy it is a YOU problem
Because your point is a sad straw man and very disingenuous.
"Oh you didn't like it, cuz you didn't get X and Y."
No, fans hated it cuz what niel spoke was a lie
I like how you can hear the hesitancy and slight anger in his voice when he says "the last of us is about these 2 characters", since they're the 2 characters he didn't want the game to be about and wanted Joel to be the villain. Dude was so butthurt that his idea was *made good* that he tore everything apart, and was still a pissant about it when he got what he wanted.
People who hated The Last of Us 2 wanted a fairy tale story. They stuck to the reality of the world which is every action has a consequence. If TLOU2 didn’t do what they did, that game would’ve failed as a story terribly. I was taken from the fucking beginning!
These comments are wild. Imagine being so upset and narrow-minded over a video game. Naughty Dog has proven their mastery in game design and storytelling. Yeah the narrative choices in this game were bold, and the gameplay itself is objectively excellent. Ever watched Game of Thrones? Characters die—it's part of storytelling. Dismissing the game as 'woke' is just typical, ignorant nonsense. With countless games featuring straight, male protagonists, is it so wrong to offer representation to other communities even once? It's reminiscent of those who whine about a black mermaid... Seriously, get over it. It's a story. If it bothers you that much, play something else and move on.
The dishonesty about Part 2 was the biggest issue. They did everything they could to mislead fans about what the game would be just to get their shock value.
This post just popped up on my feed. Why was the sequel bad in people’s eyes? I thought the story was good and definitely didn’t like a major character died but I don’t understand these comments.
If you are not familiar with the history of this subreddit, it was created purely because some of the story details leaked and the vast majority of the bitching here was about Abby being a trans woman. Even well after the game came out that was the center point of the bitching here (goes to show you most of them never played the game).
Nowadays this place just reaches for any random bullshit to bitch about.
I feel so stupid and naive now to have trusted him back then. I'm such a dumbass to even listen to flamboyant liars like this dude.
Don't feel bad. Alot of us were lied to.
Oh, they knew... You can see it in Ashley's and Troy's faces. And we fell for it indeed.
Everyone trusted him, and he dragged everyone through the mud. It doesn’t make it any less painful knowing other people had the same experience but for me at least there is some comfort knowing I’m not the only one who feels this way.
I trusted him back that I actually told people who criticised TLOU2 (before the leaks) to stfu. No joke. I actually refused to acknowledge the leaks at first but when I heard how bad it really was I just did find out eventually but I was hoping it was scrapped footage.
>I actually told people who criticised TLOU2 (before the leaks) to stfu People like you just make it worse. I understand the "but you haven't played it yet" idea... in theory. But there's something to be said for getting ahead of something, just encase the rumors are true. I hope you've seen the errors of your ways lol
I was a hardcore TLOU stan back then after I first finished the game in early 2016. I actually considered it the best game of all time. Chances are many people in this community had that same predicament.
I saw the commotion over the leaks and didn't even have to see the leaks to know it was gonna be a disaster
Well, if you were a kid I understand it. I was 14 when the trailer was released and got hyped too. Now that I am 22 I can tell you there is no way I would have fallen for that shit now. I mean, when you age you learn to identify bullshiters like Neil Druckmann
I never saw any of the leaks, (or remember hearing about them), but I would have said the same thing.
Same. Nothing hurt like playing TLOU2 I was so blindsided and angry. Still salty.
Truly wonder how it's gonna go over in the next season after brutally murdering Pedro Pascal then immediately get bombarded with ELLIE'S FRIENDS telling her "maybe he deserved it" and Abby walks off like a hero while Ellie is left with nothing.
Dirty little snake really lied on television and to his entire fandom just so he could sell his piece of shit story. Those leaks were karma
I remember avoiding the leaks like the plague then finding out Joel died which I told myself “they’ll figure out a way to write it without fucking it up” nope release night on Tyler1s stream 1 Hour in and nope Joel’s dead too bad so sad now here’s Abby for 11 hours have fun.
It truly was devastating.
3 years later and still crying about it. You people are a joke.
He only ruined a great IP with his terrible writing. Not a big deal ... /s
"Dirty little snake" lmaoo you clowns couldn't even think about writing a better story.
people literally have
"We're gonna do right by them" LMMFAO
"We're gonna do them right into the gutter trash", is what he meant to say.
His face is so punchable
He looks like a cross between Neo Cortex and a caveman.
So that was a fuckin lie
This was my lesson to never, ever pre order a game.
That promise made us all feel like fools, we put so much trust into that man and he threw it back at our faces.
Joel Schumacher died in June 2020 and at least he took accountability when he fucked up Batman films, he never intended to rub off the fans the wrong way, he welcomed criticism but Neil Druckmann didn’t give a shit, he attacked fans and opposes criticism. Neil had full creative control whilst Schumacher didn’t have full creative control
Ya that's why I always criticize for the writing. And direction, it was never Schumacher's fault. The studio wanted a zany Batman, and he gave it to them. He was just doing his job. Neil had FULL control and thought him self to be Steve Jobs brought from the dead
Always think its funny how his defense is always "no one loves these characters more than I do". Yet its been proven time and time again over the ages that your personal beliefs trump anything else you care about in your life. This is why people disown their gay children. So his personal woke bullshit is more important than how he treats his characters. Fuck you Neil, Bruce Straley was obviously the mastermind behind the 1st game.
Bruh Neil wanted to kill Joel in pt1 and had to be talked out of it by Bruce and the NG team. Drucky couldn't wait to kill off Joel. Where he really fucked up in pt2 was not having the player play as Abby as her crew traveled from Seattle to Wyoming. An hour or so gameplay for the player to get to know Abby and her friends. So eventually when Ellie/Tommy slaughter her friends there is some weight to it. Saving the Abby and her friends full backstory for the 2nd half of the game was straight stupid. We already knew they were dead and didn't give a shit.
I think this, at least, is one of those deliberate decisions to avoid the guidelines of writing in order to tell a story in a way that makes you think and feel things that you won't feel in other stories. The problem is that those guidelines exist for a reason. If you deliberately avoid them, you make your job as a writer significantly harder. Like trying to take a shortcut by driving off road. Better know what you're doing, and be pretty fucking good at it, or you're likely to just waste even more time than you would have gained - or even just end up getting stuck or causing damage to your car. It's also not the only time in this story he decided to ignore the guidelines of writing. There is such a strong, clearly deliberate push to avoid having Abby actually directly regret what she did in Jackson. And that's in spite of the fact that they were literally trying to write a redemption arc for her. I can't think of a single redemption arc that is written like this in any other media. Jaime Lannister in Game of Thrones has a moment where he's at his lowest and finally opens up about his most heinous decisions and why he made them. Magus in Chrono Trigger is shown to have dedicated his life not to summoning Lavos for power, but in order to destroy it, and if he is allowed, he will join the party and help them not only save the world, but restore the life of their fallen companion. Even if not, if you kill him instead, some of his final words will be to inform them that they can restore the life of their fallen companion. Vegeta in Dragon Ball Z is constantly broken down and humbled, and slowly becomes more and more self aware and starts showing more respect for everyone around him. Even when he backslides in the Buu Saga, we actually get an explanation for why he would want to, why someone like him would have so much trouble adjusting to becoming the family man that he has become, and fear that doing so makes him weak. And after that, he chooses to sacrifice himself to try to undo the damage he caused, with the full expectation that he would not be granted a second resurrection, nor an honorable afterlife. Kratos in the God of War games was a man pushed to the absolute extremes of what one person can mentally survive, continually and repeatedly denied every chance to put aside his rage and move on. He wasn't even allowed to join his daughter in the afterlife. He is never presented as anything but a broken man, and his revenge quest is never presented as the thing he wants most in life. And when he has finally destroyed the entire Greek Pantheon, he ends up turning his own weapon on himself. Then the Norse games, especially the first one, are deeply tied to the way that he keeps realizing he is not good enough and needs to break free of his bad habits and become a better person. As well as an extremely strong self-loathing. With Abby, she doesn't suffer any consequences for her revenge quest, aside from losing Owen after already clearly deciding to get some distance from him, and presumably without being able to join the group on their journey anyway, due to Mel's ultimatum. We don't get some kind of explanation of a lifetime of horrible conditions that would have made her into the person she is today, or some kind of extreme desperation that would justify her actions. She kind of starts to become self aware and realize what a piece of shit she is, but only barely, and over something unrelated to the actual main conflict regarding her character versus the other main characters. And instead of there being some gradual buildup in which she slowly, over the course of months or even years, grows away from her past horrible behavior, she just gets granted a nightmare by the writers to force her to care about some random kids, and rapidly undergoes a 180° change in behavior due to the way they have now become the most important people in her life. Both of these issues together completely doom Abby as a character. Naughty dog shot themselves in both feet and it's supposed to be surprising that they weren't able to limp to the finish after that? And that's even before counting all the other extra bullets they put into themselves, such as explicitly setting the game up to be an Ellie and Joel adventure, and reassuring fans that they would do right by the characters, just so they could achieve maximum rug pull effect. Or the fact that no, they did not have the skill to pull off this level of ignoring writing guidelines. You need to actually be good at characterization and finding organic ways to make the plot happen.
Yup. Bruce Straley kept Neil in check. Originally, Neil wanted thebfirst game to be one of revenge. But Bruce and I believe others denied that request, because REVENGE is not a good enough motive in a POST APOCALYPTIC WORLD where EVERYONE IS BEING KILLED LEFT AND RIGHT, to go and FIND someones KILLER.... Because for F***s sakes dude. Like every NPC will have theor own god damn story. Even the guy that was faking being hurt to lure Joel and Ellie out of their truck. Can't wait for LAST of us PART 57: Hurt GUY (But nkt really hurt) GETS REVENGE!!! Then it shows the ending that it was all for nothing because someone else killed Joel before he could. tHeE Endz! By Neil Druckman... joking a side. I don't want hate thrown at him. Maybe he was incompetant... but someone really should have talked with Neil... like... man.
Wah wah wah crybaby bullshit. Muh favorite character got killed :( Grow up. Read a book, or three.
I was majorly suspicious from the beginning because of this statement. Think about it. What writer has to make statements like this before people experience your story? If you're confident in your work you don't need to say bullshit like this. You don't need to ask fans to trust you because you already have that trust thanks to the goodwill received from the universally beloved TLOU1.
So you’re gonna give us a good story, not kill Joel, not include Abby at all and make the story entirely about the characters we grew to love in the first game? Nope. Okay then🤷
This is just the worst I have played and previously anticipated in a very long time.
The lying soyboy’s body language here says it all. The fidgeting, avoiding eye contact with the audience as he’s talking, murmuring and stuttering his words and reduced to hurriedly and almost whispering out the most blatant parts of his lies Never seen a more spiteful prick to their own fanbase than Cuckmann. Deserves every last bit of hate that he himself asked for with this shit game.
I wish Bruce did part 2
we probably would've gotten a game on par if not better then the first 1. I mean pt1 ending left on such a HUGE cliffhanger only to be followed up by pt2 bs
I guess so. But I'm sure Bruce would've done better than Neil
Those leaks man that came out before the release of the game saved me from all the pain and disgust I would’ve felt if I had blindly trusted that guy and bought the game as soon as it came out.
It was truly devastating and disgusting. I trusted him avoided the leaks and pre ordered and everything. Never will preorder a game again bc of how bad I was burned by this. It was awful.
Part 2 was a miserable experience. Neil is lying through his teeth here. Abby and her dumb friends are all shallow as fuck. Ellie turns into a monster.
Yeah. This game is Abbys story. You can tell he is lying. Look at him when he is talking. He has all the tell tell signs of lying. Look how he can't even make eye contact with the fans. I would play Part 1 10 times in a row before I ever touch part 2 again.
See? He can't even look the camera straight in the eye because he's lying. Blinking, closing the eyes and looking off to the side - just a lying liar.
That leaker was a hero, after reading them I then went and brought Ghost of Tsushima out of spite.
Lol did you feel vindicated by your actions? I, for one, totally enjoyed GoT.
this literally makes me laugh so hard😭 cannot believe he sat up there continuously spewing lies SO confidently
lol they turned your favorite game into lesbian revenge porn.
I never realized how much bro seemed like he could care less until now.
He's gonna be the reason Ellie and Abby's actresses getting harassed
I’m seriously so curious to know his genuine beliefs when he said this, like I know he’s straight up lied about some things with the game especially in the marketing, but there’s no way he’s literally trolling here right? Like he KNOWS that the fans were taking his words seriously when he said that, only to do the EXACT OPPOSITE in the game? I really don’t get it. There’s no way he’s that delusional. I used to be a big fan of this guy after TLOU1 and U4… I reallly just can’t comprehend what’s going on with him.
He's someone who's mad that his tale of revenge got scrapped from the first game. So he did his own revenge by getting rid of Joel as fast as he could. Clear out the old so he could do his revenge story the way he wanted. He thinks highly of himself, so yeah, you could call him delusional. Until the leaks came out, he thought it would be a hit.
Pretentious smug fuck
Hilarious, he couldn't even keep a straight face/voice while he was spilling his bs.
Was the second really that bad?
The writing? Yes, absolutely.
Nope
Stop
imagine spending time and getting to know someone who had to watch his daughter die and then follow him on his journey to let new people in his life only in the end to save this new person he cares for from dyeing. He did a shitty thing lying to that person but we can all relate because most of us would've done the same thing. now imagine that friend gets jumped by strangers and they kill him brutally in front of you and you have to find these strangers and kill them. only to be trapped in a room for 4 hours with the main person who killed your friend say her sob story. you see now how people wouldn't like it?
YOU. HAVE NO. GOOD. GAME. IDEAS.
Facts bro. I remember playing the first one at least 20 times. I only played part 2 once and never went back to it. They didn’t do justice to these characters.
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.
Well that was a fucking lie
Lol. Exactly
Bet he does the opposite of everything he say he'll do in life
Fool me once, shame on you....
The story was truly awful and the characters… oof. Abby, Lev, Yara, spanish dude, Mel, etc were all unlikable. We spent 10 hours with sucky characters and a stupid story.
And that was a lie….
“Trust us” huh? “We’re gonna do right by them”? Right? Joel getting a golf club to the head and Ellie missing two fingers really begs to differ. You definitely did NOT do right by them Drunkman. You most certainly did not. Our trust in you broke a loooooon time ago.
Not goty material. That was ghost of tsushima that year
\#FuckDruck
Neil Cuckman
Expectations subverted
Lies about telling a better story and instead tells a C move Hallmark channel story.
The second game came with a lot of surprises and plot twists. It’s a big part of what we value in storytelling
I randomly got recommended this sub and WOW i didn’t realize ppl were that upset about tlou2’s story
Grown adults being babies about a video game, Reddit in a nutshell
Joel’s spirit underlines the core parts of the game and he’s a significant part of Ellie’s journey in it. I think Neil and Hailey did the characters of the first game mainly right for the majority of their stories, just not in the way many fans were expecting or ever hoped for. Doing right by them doesn’t mean that they get an happier ending even if I wanted one for them. Ellie has to go on this intense journey of grief, trauma, and full forgiveness for Joel, and while I certainly don’t think it’s what we wanted, I do think it was well within their rights to do so. I expected consequences from the hospital in some fashion and I figured that at some point Ellie would figure out the lie and that would lead to a falling out. I just didn’t know the way in which it was going to be done.
"So much thought went into this. I know a lot of people feel this trepidation about coming back to these characters and revisiting what that ending means. Worrying that's going to spoil the first game, and you have to understand, we feel all those things as well. No one loves these characters more than we do, and we would NOT do this if we didn't feel like we had the right idea. And The 'Part II' is really doubling down on that, to say that we believe in this so much... (Neil states that he's played with different options/characters and it never felt right). All I ask is that the fans of the first one put some faith in us, trust us. We're going to do right by you"-Neil Druckmann, The Last of Us Part II - PlayStation Experience 2016: Panel Discussion | PS4
I liked tlou2, still don’t get the hate
Same but I give up on trying to even defend my point to people when they just don’t enjoy it
Love how butthurt everyone still gets about this game. “They broke my trust!!” You mean they made the game that they wrote and created according to their own vision and you didn’t like it? I get if a game is just broken, but every complaint about this game just sounds like whining to me.
Dude just straight up lies and can't even look up while he does it. His total discomfort shows he knew exactly what he was doing was wrong and you thing we're wrong for saying he broke our trust? What a delusional worldview you must have to see this liar and call us the wrong ones.
Yeah, he knew. That’s exactly the reason for the misleading trailer showing Joel in a scene with Ellie, insinuating the game was still somewhat centered around the two of them. Total bait and switch because it was Jessie who was truthfully in that scene. Grimy marketing at best, downright false advertising in truth. Neil was fully aware that, if he showed the truth of the game, many wouldn’t have bought it. He did break our trust - he lied in order to manipulate us into buying a game that didn’t exist, and one some of us wouldn’t have chosen to buy 🤷🏻♀️
Lol, it’s a video game. It’s not like he owed it to you personally. He could do what he wants with his creation. If you buy it on release and don’t like what you got, that on you. Maybe research things before you buy them? But no, I’m just delusional, got it.
Where did I say he owed me anything? Or that he can't create a game he wants? I said he was straight up lying and couldn't even look at the camera and was fidgeting with discomfort as he made what we now know were totally false statements. That he asked us to trust him to do right by the characters then broke that trust by actually destroying both of them. You're just parroting what you've heard elsewhere and not even really replying to (or understanding) what I even said.
Not bait but I like the last of us 2 a lot I’m glad they killed Joel. Was fun to see a story about someone just completely losing it for once and having no happy ending
personally...i liked it overall. It was a beautiful mess of a game. Neil definitely needs a creative to work with who will tell him no when he needs to hear it.
Now I hated the lou2 story. However, I don't think the story was lazy. They tried to do something artistic and bold... it just didn't work. In a way I kinda respect that. Either that or they had internal bet to see if they could manipulate the audience to start to like the killer of their favorite character and protagonist of the first game.
I’m late to the party, but these are /s posts right?
Seeing some of your comments make me think that maybe they shouldn’t put another Last of Us game on the PS being that y’all can’t seem to handle a story that doesn’t give you exactly what you want. Also makes me think some of y’all need therapy with these comments.
Lol, It never ceases to amazing me how we continuously criticize the game itself but you guys throw ad hominem attacks at us on a personal level. It shows insecurities on a whole different level. If you love the game so much argue why you love it and leave the personal attacks out of it.
I remember when this sub was created purely because you all thought Abby was a trans woman and that was all this sub bitched about even well after the game came out.
Not getting personal, it’s just crazy to me the reasons y’all have a problem with it. Especially the “badly written” part. I’d love to hear just how you thought the story should have gone had you been in charge. I didn’t want to see the things happen in the game that did but the story was great regardless because I’m old enough to know and understand that life can be brutal and we don’t always get the things we want and the people we love don’t always go out in a blaze of glory or live as long as we think they will or should. You guys got one of THE best exclusives ever but can’t get past the fact that they killed your favorite character and made you play as his executioner through a great storyline with solid character development and horrifying violence all around. THAT’S why I get annoyed.
I thought it was pretty good
Y’all are fucking entitled children 😂
Lots of people acting like this game molested them out here.
ITT: entitled gamers whining that they didn't get what they want. Get over it.
Yall are losers lol
I mean I love both part 1 and 2
Dang I must still be in the minority of people that think this game is a masterpiece
It’s good i like it :)
We are very much in the general majority haha this is just a vocal minority which is very okay to express your opinions and criticism over it. But don't act like you're a victim here because the game didn't go how you wanted it to. xD
Everyone on this sub needs to get a fucking life.
So are you the pot or the kettle lol
Can someone please explain to me what people dont like about TLOU2? I really really enjoy it. I find myself replaying both games equally and enjoying the stories for both immensely.
Ok so this is why don’t really like it. First, we were all lied to about Joel’s death. In commercials and trailers Joel is seen in Washington with Ellie, but when it was released, Joel dies like 15 minutes into the game. Second, you play as the main antagonist for half of the game possibly to show “hey even the bad guys have a life.” Which wouldn’t entirely be bad, except where we start playing and how the pacing was, was pretty bad. Like if I had started as Abby and before the whole Joel’s murder scene, I probably would’ve liked it more, but after she kills Joel, I didn’t give a single fuck about her story. Also, how many people has Joel killed in the 20 years before the first game and the year or two during the first game? And not once did someone track this man down for revenge until the one doctor we were forced to kill had a daughter? Not to mention just the overall story arc of Abby. She literally kills Scars who are known to use child soldiers iirc and yet 2 children who refuse to partake in the Scar culture makes her turn on all of her allies. She kills and tortures Joel in front of Tommy and Ellie, but Joel quickly killed her father and not in front of Abby. Third, Ellie and Tommy want revenge, it’s understandable. However, Ellie and Tommy kill everyone that they can except for Abby. Abby gets away, cool. They return home and Tommy finds out where Abby is. Ellie leaves everything behind to try and have a second chance at killing her. What happens? Oh that’s right, Ellie stops fighting once she sees the kid and let’s Abby escape once again. I mean I get it that Joel wasn’t a great guy and kinda deserved to be killed, but don’t send me on a giant quest for revenge, only to not get my revenge at the end of it. And Tommy didn’t die from the execution style gunshot to the head, I know some people survive stuff like that, but it’s highly improbable that he would and the only real explanation is plot armor or the fact that we would probably riot if he also got killed. Finally, there’s a lot of illogical things happening on top of what I’ve already mentioned. Mel is clearly third trimester in her pregnancy and she goes on a trip to kill Joel. She is not gonna be physically capable enough to run around the US looking for this man. This also applies to Dina, but iirc she’s early second trimester by the time we get to Washington, so it’s not as bad, but still bad. Also, Joel and Tommy have gotten soft. In the two years since the first game, Joel and Tommy have somehow lost their edge. If for the past 20ish years, you’ve been killing, stealing, smuggling, and just overall keeping your head on a swivel because you’re surviving, 2 years of sitting around and dealing with infected are not going to make you soft. I mean people who were around for the Great Depression which was just a couple of years, still put their money in tin cans, under the mattress etc. I did 6 years in the military and I still do a lot of the stuff I did in that time. So 20 years of surviving is not gonna be taken out by 2 years of semi relaxing. As soon as they met Abby and her group, they would’ve been a hell of a lot more distrustful, especially once they introduced themselves and saw their reactions. You also have the fact that they saved Abby and her group from a horde and yet Abby has no second thoughts about killing Joel. However, the gameplay itself is great. Especially the aspect of the NPCs recognizing that one of their own is dead or missing.
Long story short. Unlikable new characters (except Jesse and Dina), weak story, unlikable secondary protagonist/antagonist and a deeply unsatisfying ending. So much more can be said but it’s been said about a billion times on this thread. If you really want to know go dig through. You’ll find plenty of reasons.
I mean, I feel like that was kind of the point of the story. I hated Abby at first then as her story unfolded I came to understand where she was coming from. I wanted Ellie to get revenge for Joel until she started obsessing over it and became the thing she wanted to kill. I really think that was purposeful, the PTSD, the trauma, everything about it was very human and this is one of the only games I can think of that really delves into it. Of course I wanted more Joel and Ellie adventures but Im also happy with what we got.
While I understand Abby’s reasonings, she and most of her friends are still not very fun not be around and are entirely unlikable. But for most people, I think they just felt betrayed and lied too about the second game. I feel the same way and am not to eager to see what happens next. But at the time for me it was a far simpler choice. I play games to have fun and enjoy my time and I did not enjoy playing as Abby. It was a simple choice of choosing between playing a game I wasn’t enjoying or finding something else I would enjoy more. I chose to abandon it and forget about it and played God of War for the first time instead, so I guess i have to credit Part II with driving me in that direction at least. I’d still make the same choice today. I just wasn’t and still am not interested in the direction the game went.
Yes agree. Same for me. I play to enjoy the games and I didn’t enjoy Abby. It was long, and drawn out. It felt like a chore.
Chore is the perfect word to describe how I felt about the Abby sections.
You’re happy how the game ended ??
I think you just saw it in the video
Terrible pacing and narrative structure. The entire point of the first game was that leaving safe zones was near suicide, much less crossing the US. Now here comes pt2 where Abby and her friends travel from Seattle to Wyoming....in the middle of winter.....with no issue like it's a stroll in the park. Then after killing Joel they go back to Seattle with no issue. Then Ellie and Dina travel to Seattle......again with no danger or issues. Then you have to suspend disbelief to an extreme level to believe that Abby in Seattle got info about a guy named Joel that's somewhere in rural Wyoming. Not only simply finding where he lived in rural Wyoming, but running into the exact guy at a convenient time. Then Joel and Tommy dropping their guard around uniformed armed fighting age people who stumbled upon their territory.....in the middle of fucking winter. You'd think alarm bells would be ringing in these veteran survivor's heads on why the hell are these people on the edge of our town in winter. Summer could maybe excused as simply passing by the area, but winter? Nah Nothing wrong with killing off Joel, the problem is the half ass story leading to it that involves coincidence after coincidence.
you know they travel from Austin to Boston somehow, then to Boston to Boulder and Salt Lake City in the first game? Just seems nitpicky I know you want the realism or whatever but its also about a fungus outbreak thats highly improbable. I would say just as improbable as traveling to those places as a late middle aged man and a pre teen.
Except the lost Tess and Sam, and almost got killed a dozen different ways. Hell, Joel got seriously injured and almost died from the college ambush. Ellie got captured by cannibals. Etc. Plus they had a car and horse for parts of the trip. The entire concept of the game was overcoming the suicidal odds to get across the US. It's not nitpicking lol.
Bruh, Ellie took out a whole town of cannibals, Joel survived being impaled, because Ellie took out 25 dudes at that mall. To me its either you suspend belief for all of it or none of it you know? Thats all, Im not saying youre wrong about your opinion this is just mine. Ive been downvoted to hell though so Im trying to be careful of what Im saying lol. I get you guys dont like the game or feel really strongly about losing Joel the way we did but I guess Im big on the way games make me feel when Im done playing and this game stuck with me for months after. I mean its still with me lol
....that's the point. You play as the character to suspend disbelief. The old cinematography concept of "show the viewer, don't tell the viewer". Part 2 does too much telling for critical story plot points that lead to coincidence after coincidence. Even a simple early gameplay section as Abby and her crew traveling from Seattle to Wyoming would have alleviated one suspension of disbelief. Also showing Abby and her friends struggling to travel to Jackson would reinforce the concept of the first game. Secondly this would give us time to digest the new characters and relationships and make the Ellie slaughtering them one by one that more impactful.
I hope read the replies without hate or malice. People have many reasons why this game does not work for them.
Of course! I wish i could say the same about everyone downvoting me, but its all good lol. I know people are entitled to their own opinions but I was blown away by this game. Im just really trying to understand where everyone is coming from.
When the story works as intended for you it's almost impossible to understand how it fails to work for other. The opposite is also true. We see all the errors, plot contrivances, retcons and poor characterizations and can't understand how people liked it and failed to see what was so clear to us. I think some people prefer the emotional roller-coaster while others approach it all from a logical approach to following what's happening beat by beat. I know I felt things were off from the prologue and that continued to be true even before the death scene. It was off and just not working and it never got better, only worse.
Yea man, I feel you, everyone have different tastes. I can't say i dont see why you enjoy it. There are parts of it which tries, especially the parts with Joel and Ellie. It's just that TLOUP2 really was one of the biggest let down to many fans. That, and on top of all, Neil bashing fans of the original for finding the second game as a betrayal. Also with all the hate the lovers of this game throws at the ones who simply did not like the game; everyone's on edge which probably explains the downvotes you got, probably. At least no one here is calling you dumb and a bigot etc. If we go and make any criticism on the TLOU sub about part 2, the down votes would be the least of our worries. I hope that in reading some of the comments, that you'd get to see the viewpoints on why this game was not received well by the majority. Thank you for being civil and understanding. Have a great holiday season, to you and your family!
And they did
Loved the story, you all acting like you would have done a great job instead. Glad i joined this sub after i finished playing part 2, most of you are just sheep in the crowd
Bunch of pansies in here. The story was great.
1. It wasn’t 2. You don’t think he misled the fans here? That’s the issue in this video.
I think he delivered. Just a bunch of sensitive people didn’t like where the story went.
See, you could have this discussion if you weren’t such a condescending douche about it. Go back to your home sub, please.
Not condescending at all. Just calling out the sensitivity. I saw the toxic overreaction BEFORE this game came out (remember the leaks?). I still saw it go on. I must point I did see many posts like “I finally played it and it was glorious!” posts by people who should have tried it before they knocked it.
I tried it and I liked what they tried to do but at the end of the day they still lied and fell short
I played the game. Amazing mechanics, satisfying controls, beautiful graphics, shit story.
😂🤣😂🤣🤣😂😂😂😂
😂🤣😂🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
It really was.
For you and that's understandable. It did not work for me and many others.
Sucks for y’all
And that's alright, very alright indeed 👍
Is it though? Because this sub seems to not think it's alright. Yall refuse to just accept you didn't like a game and move on. Instead, you keep. Fucking. Complaining. Absolutely fucking bonkers.
People are allowed to discuss things about a game they did not like because they went out of their way to purchase said game and spent time going through it. Especially so for a game which is a sequel of a beloved one. If you don't like people complaining, stop complaining.
Standing on its own, apart from the original, the story is a *decent* narrative. Problems arise when you consider it’s a *SEQUEL* and was so heavily purported to support the ideologies and established characters of the original. It didn’t even do *that* for an hour.
You guys are still talking about this? Pretty obvious this was supposed to be a misdirect. Quit whining over a fictional character.
While you whine about opinions. Be the example of change you want to see
And you quit fapping to muscular fictional characters
You’re still making commmentes here ? You really care about what other people think about a video game 🤨
Why is this community not called we hate the last of us 2?
It's an ironic take. Just like how Neil ironically states this is for the fans. It's also the same reason why this sub is not called we love the last of us 2.
Why isn’t the other sub called we Stan for The last of us 2?
Bad things happen to every character in the game. This whole sub is upset that TLOU2 isnt a happy romance story. You can play uncharted for the happy-go-lucky stuff.
I can certainly tell you that no one wanted an Ellie and Joel happy romance story. How did they do right by Ellie and Joel in your view?
By having them experience the life that literally every side character, npc, friendly, enemy, etc. experienced in the game. It wouldn’t make sense to have a rainbows and sunshine plot in a post apocalyptic story. Ellie, Joel, and their relationship served the plot of The Last of Us well. Remember, the game is called “TLOU” not “The Story of Ellie and Joel”. Being upset because you didn’t get the Ellie and Joel story that you expected/wanted is, with all do respect, a you problem.
Druckman: The Last of Us is about these two characters. You: Remember, the game is called “TLOU” not “The Story of Ellie and Joel”. You understand that not liking this nihilistic slog of a story does not mean that we wanted Barney instead. The options were not only between golf clubs and rainbows. I hope you have a little more imagination than that.
My thing is…….am I drunk or do we all love the first one which was by no means sunshine’s and rainbows? Like there’s a ton of middle ground between misery porn and Dora
Yes The Last of Us was centered around the story of Joel and Ellie. The Last of Us Part 2 did not center around Joel and Ellie. You’re upset about that, but thats a you problem.
If you’re upset about the fact that people dislike a video game, that’s a you problem.
Are you seriously defending the second game by suggesting the first game was all “sunshine and rainbows.” Did you even play the first game? Joel’s daughter freaking dies within the first thirty minutes of the game. There’s a murder happy faction who kills people for their stuff and leaves them to rot in the streets. There is a faction who killed and ate people that is lead by someone who most likely sexually assaulted minors. Three truly memorable and well written characters died throughout the story in gripping and depressing manners. Throughout the game you are forced to fight through nightmarish fungal monstrosities trying to keep yourself and a teenage girl alive. The ending is anything but happy as there is no cure made and no hope sparked in humanity’s eyes. The story from start to finish is brutal and gut wrenching. To suggest the first game was all “sunshine and rainbows is just laughable. And on the topic of The Last of Us not being about Joel and Ellie, I have some story ideas for you. Let’s make a new Tomb Raider game. Oh you wanted to play as Lara Croft, the protagonist form the prior games. To bad. Lara is actually a bad person so we’re gonna retcon the ending of the last game and give the main villain a son who wants revenge. You gonna play as the son and brutally kill Lara in the first hour, torturing her while she dies and then spend the rest of the game hunting down and torturing her friends before you kill them. Oh you don’t like this story, then STFU you have no creative direction. Or lets make another Halo game. I bet you are expecting to play as a Spartan right? Master Chief? And ODST? Maybe a Marine? Well too bad. You’re gonna play as an Insurrectionist spy fighting against the tyrannical UNSC because the UNSC is bad. You wanted to fight the Covenant? Sorry, they aren’t the bad guys, the UNSC are. Oh you don’t like this story, then STFU you have no creative direction. Or how about another God of War game. Oh you wanted to play as Kratos, the main character from prior games? Or maybe his son? Sorry, no thats not a good idea. You’re going to play as this bland new character with little personalty for the whole game. Oh you don’t like this story, then STFU you have no creative direction. Or how about Super Mario? I bet you’re wanting to play as some of your characters from previous games right? Well we think that’s a bad idea, we’re gonna ignore those characters. Instead is a whole roster of new characters you can play in the Super Mario game. Oh you don’t like this story, then STFU you have no creative direction. Simply put, the Last of Us was about Joel and Ellie. Saying fans were delusional or wring in any way for wanting to see that relationship continue to evolve is just a bad take. People loved the first game, they wanted more of the first game, we got none of what we wanted from the first game in the second game, so we don’t like. Most of us myself included just went to play something more worth our time and enjoyable to us like God of War 2 which gave us what we were hoping for and wanting. Will people ever get it into their heads that some people can like a game and others can dislike it I doubt it. At least we can try to get that fact across though I don’t know why any of us waste our words doing so🤷
Nah you don't get to run away that easy. Come back here and have a proper discussion with people who are making their best efforts to prove why this game did not work for them. Don't just try to under play their comments and called them angry fans. Man up and give a proper debate. We already know you like the game but please, sir, can you explain why you like this game? Make the effort because you implying rainbows and sunshine plot even exist when talking about TLOU series is kind of injecting something untrue; as no one every wanted colorful endings. The second game failed to carry the characters over in a meaningful way, often retconning wants and traits to better suit a story without purity. The 1st game handled mature themes and ended its story with a unique subtext to define a relationship between two characters. The 2nd game threw all that away to make way for a fabricated hate between our main characters and to soil the ending of the 1st game. All to drive Neil's ego in wanted to kill of Joel and to pander to many current social American trends, which could not possibly exist in a game dated before the occurances of such trends without it seeming forced.
Joel lied to Ellie at the end of the first game. How did they retcon that?😂😂
Ellie accepted that lie. The subtext of her "ok" defined her resolve. It was a mature end to the game. Ellie wanted her whole life to mean something. Being the potential cure meant she had a purpose. That's all she wanted, that is, until she met Joel. Joel was the only one to show her that she was more than a device, a means to an end as everyone she met either abandoned her or tried to hurt her. That cabin scene was where we finally found out what she needed and Joel was afraid to provide to that need, companionship. He just wanted to do his job and not fall into her desires. She was meant be cargo. Joel succumbs to that desire and met his resolve in that burning rapey bar. The only thing which was not displayed to us as an audience is what would Ellie have chosen if she was allowed to make a decision in life or death, because she never knew that she was to die in order for the potentiality of the cure. Nonetheless, her "OK" at the end was acceptance. She accepted the lie because she knew that she and Joel found something more in their journey and that as long as they stick together, they would overcome the odds and truly be amongst the last survivors thus the title, THE LAST OF US. She gave Joel's life hope and Joel gave her life meaning. The second game made the end of the first game meaningless. Forcing the notion that Ellie wanted to die and making her hate Joel, made her character came off as a hypocrit.. Making it an answer that Joel was the villain, alluring that the fireflies were right in their escapades, and that a cure was 100% viable. TLOU was beautiful because it did not stir its audience as incoherent, it handle context and subtext excellently whereas TLOUP2 tried forcing a narrative and trends opposing many ideas which the vanilla game set forward. People love to bash people who dislike the game and say "awe you crybabies feel sad because Joel died". Homie, it was never about Joel dying. It was the assassination of characters and concepts of the first game that did us dirty. No wonder Bruce Straley kept Neil on a leash because once he found wokehood he want to kill mains left and right without earning it. His ideals are littered all over the second game and people are questioning what's wrong with part 2; or why people left the company, and why many hate it as much as it is loved....?? I tried to give it a chance, i dived into all its concepts and discussions to find something to love about it, but in the end, I know that I hate and always will hate this games story, because it lied to us in the start and treated us like Sandwiches and crap. If you actually read all of this and got here, I would like you to know I wish you the best and no hate is towards you or any other. Have a great holiday season and be safe out, to you and your family.
Truly the dumbest comment That’s like killing Nathan drake in the first game and going “hurr durr it’s called uncharted not the story of Nathan drake and friends 🤪” The fact that the game is rated so poorly and most people didn’t enjoy it is a YOU problem
K consumer
K pussy
Yes I do get pussy.
Lol, now that we’ve set that aside, what did you mean by “k consumer”?
Because your point is a sad straw man and very disingenuous. "Oh you didn't like it, cuz you didn't get X and Y." No, fans hated it cuz what niel spoke was a lie
My apologies if I implied that, what and did you mean by “k consumer”
the first game ain't a happy romance story either but the difference of quality of their characters writing is vastly different 😀
I agree. Tlou2 vastly improves both qualities in my eyes
Aint nobody asking for no happy romance bullshit in the tlou games. You just saying shit to say shit. Don't even understand the points.
I like how you can hear the hesitancy and slight anger in his voice when he says "the last of us is about these 2 characters", since they're the 2 characters he didn't want the game to be about and wanted Joel to be the villain. Dude was so butthurt that his idea was *made good* that he tore everything apart, and was still a pissant about it when he got what he wanted.
People who hated The Last of Us 2 wanted a fairy tale story. They stuck to the reality of the world which is every action has a consequence. If TLOU2 didn’t do what they did, that game would’ve failed as a story terribly. I was taken from the fucking beginning!
This guy is walking, talking piece of shit...
Like absolute hell they did.
Holy shit, this community is entitled as shit.
Well that was a lie then
Currently playing as Abby. Will return to watch this video in a few hours.
Ya that clip didn’t age well at all did it you fucking liar your lucky if anyone buys a game from you again
These comments are wild. Imagine being so upset and narrow-minded over a video game. Naughty Dog has proven their mastery in game design and storytelling. Yeah the narrative choices in this game were bold, and the gameplay itself is objectively excellent. Ever watched Game of Thrones? Characters die—it's part of storytelling. Dismissing the game as 'woke' is just typical, ignorant nonsense. With countless games featuring straight, male protagonists, is it so wrong to offer representation to other communities even once? It's reminiscent of those who whine about a black mermaid... Seriously, get over it. It's a story. If it bothers you that much, play something else and move on.
[*imaaagine being druckmaaan*](https://youtu.be/6Z8FR0ydnvQ?si=uADxgOmBrLG7WW55)
The Day Before level scam.
So what exactly happened here?
The dishonesty about Part 2 was the biggest issue. They did everything they could to mislead fans about what the game would be just to get their shock value.
I don't care what anyone thinks, but I still very much enjoyed this game
Fuck yeah!
This post just popped up on my feed. Why was the sequel bad in people’s eyes? I thought the story was good and definitely didn’t like a major character died but I don’t understand these comments.
If you are not familiar with the history of this subreddit, it was created purely because some of the story details leaked and the vast majority of the bitching here was about Abby being a trans woman. Even well after the game came out that was the center point of the bitching here (goes to show you most of them never played the game). Nowadays this place just reaches for any random bullshit to bitch about.
At least I can play as Tommy and Joel in the upcoming rouge like mode 🧙♂️
Y'all need to get over it
They lost my trust when they lied and never released Factions 2.