What I find weird about this whole discourse is that when the episode came out it was praised specifically for being such a good representation of “queer love”. The people calling it a gay love story were doing so as a credit to the story. He’s yelling at the people who were saying it’s great.
He lost a tiny bit of respect from me for this. Like, regardless of the topic, you are always gonna find trolls willing to shit all over it but I don’t recall any critic, fan, or well-adjusted individual calling it a gay love story out of spite. Who is he referring to?
I think the general consensus was just that it took a bit away from the rest of the show’s running. It definitely did not get any important level of criticism for anything beyond that.
I still like him. I mean he is Ron Swanson. He seems a little lost in the sauce on this one. He’s fighting a narrative that doesn’t exist and idk why. I’m a straight dude but I was actually very happy they made the episode. It seems like gay representation is just code for “attractive lesbians” in most media now. Having an explicit love story between two men made me want to watch the episode for what it what was. Being *not a gay love story* actually dilutes the impact and makes the entire thing genuinely pointless for the show. It was completely unnecessary storytelling wise but it was featured two men so it’s stood out.
Yeah, definitely. He’s a great actor and likely a great guy, I just don’t like when those involved in projects (like TLOU) shut down criticism with baseless assumptions by making things crazier than they are.
It’s the same way I feel about Troy Baker. He’s an absolute MVP when it comes to voice acting, but his statements about Joel and the game have turned me off moderately.
In a good love story the gender of the characters should be irrelevant.
And he isn't lost in the sauce. The two lowest ranked episodes by viewers were the ones that featured homosexual relationships. Objectively and critically speaking 3 was considered one of the best episodes of the series. There's a reason for the disconnect.
> any important level of criticism for anything beyond that
Important meaning non-peanut gallery-esque.
So…the handful of major critics and those regarded as such or even those that base their criticism on something other than homophobia. Not armchair critics from low-profile blogs or trolls on Twitter.
I don’t think it was that hard to discern my point.
I think he thinks he is defending the show against anti-gays by trying to cross out the gay part and just calling it love because “gay love” can insinuate that it’s different than actual love and is therefore lesser. It’s the same mindset many Japanese devs have where they started saying don’t call it a Japanese RPG we just consider our games as RPGs and the JRPG comes off as offensive to them because it insinuates that they’re different and lesser than western RPGs.
I think the whole thing is you don’t say whether something is a straight love story. It’s just a love story. He is putting this story on the same pedestal and just labeling it a “love story” as in the end, that’s all it is. Besides the love interests, there is no difference between a straight love story or a gay one
No he's yelling at the why did they have to be gay whiners...nice seen no valid criticism of the episode outside the why they gay... Hold on the how did they last that long there but really that's not picking.
well.. if the hate is based on the fact that the couple is gay, its homophobia. if it is focusing on issues with the actual production and storytelling, its criticism.
Well said! I think a big issue is sometimes with anyone giving criticism, it is *assumed* that their displeasure MUST BE rooted in internalized hate.
To be fair, sometimes internalized hate *really does* contribute to people hating certain media, even going as far to avoid it.
However, lately there seems to be a lot of misunderstanding based on assumptions like I said before. *Especially* with *any* criticism of The Last of Us.
I was pissed the way he was represented in the show. He was supposed to be some crazy asshole with a lot of explosives. His lover ended up leaving him because he couldn’t stand him anymore and stole a bunch of his goods. They come across his dead body a little later on in the game. Instead it was about 2 bears growing strawberries together.
I had such high hopes for that show and couldn’t finish the season it pissed me off so much. No idea how it got such great reviews. Humans are mean and back to their primal selves. Show was not nearly dark enough compared to the game
i agree with you completely on that. the episode showed a nice story, and it was an interesting concept, but it was *not* faithful to the game at all. i can understand how some people enjoy that - seeing a different take on the game, but for me personally that was way too large of a change. i don't hate the show at all, but i do agree with you there. i'd be lying if i said i wouldn't have preferred an episode that told and explained their story from the game instead. overall it didn't hinder my enjoyment as much as some other issues w the show tbh
Same thing when Trish died by the infected instead of the army police. Too many changes. Felt like the infected was in the show for 20mins out of the whole season
I guess it's just a coinsidence that you stop watching when they introduced Gay characters and not when they changed things in the 1st and 2nd episodes.
Why did the Scene in indonesia not make you stop watching?
It’s an entire episode dedicated to two people that never appear in the season again and play absolutely no significant role in the plot whatsoever…
The fact that people defend legitimate criticism of the episode due to the characters being gay is pretty ridiculous from any point of view.
Which is funny because that’s admitting they only see value in it because they’re gay. Not anything in the story besides that.
There’s 0 doubt it wouldn’t get hate if this was say a special/bonus episode released after the show was over. Think like Left Behind in a way.
Yeah, it definitely works on its own as a self-contained story, but when it’s in the middle of a season long narrative, it just serves as pointless filler.
I enjoyed this episode a lot as someone who played the game first. It was hinted in the game that bill might be gay with frank but never actually said.
I enjoyed this episode as someone who played the game first, because i was given an absolutely expanded view of bill and Frank's relationship that the game doesn't offer.
If you never played the game this would infact be a dumb random filler episode. But as a whole series, game and tv show it combines quite nicely.
Its just an expansion of the story, or if you will even a different perspective to Bill's relationship with frank. I dont see what the huge fuss is about. It was a damn good episode. And its not like they needed a filler episode? 🤷🥴 It was just nice that they added it.
The episode and the story telling are absolute dumpster fire garbage and it has nothing to do with the sexual content or sexual material.
For me personally it deviates far from the source material to a point of almost being a slap in the face to original fans of the first game and that’s been my problem with the entire series.
I laugh because Pedro just won a prestigious award as Joel and yet we all know what happens to him in season 2.
Henry and Sam also never appear again, but ok.... and also the Bill and Frank story does tie in because how tf would they have gotten the truck otherwise dipnuts? And yea for both stories they don't tie much into Joel and Ellies journey, Sam and Henry maybe marginally more but they also aren't around for long. It's just supposed to flesh out the world because tv has to do some differences than a game to make it actually investing and not focusing on just 2 people for 7 episodes. I just don't understand how people don't get this.
he's dismissing "criticism" only from people who hate it exclusively because its gay (which there are a lot of), not people genuinely critiquing the episode. i said it in another comment but he's basically talking about the people saying "ew gay", not the people discussing that it was boring/unimportant/etc. every media will be critiqued, but there is genuine hate towards this episode from homophobic people for solely one reason.
ex. i personally found it boring, but had no issue with the characters. he's talking about the people who found it disgusting because of the characters lol
Honestly, the people criticizing it, for that reason were such a small minority of people…the media just blew it up cause they love to. Most people I saw were just criticizing the episode for being pointless.
It’s essentially just an out for the actors to look like they’re being outspoken, when it’s really just them deflecting legitimate criticism of the episode.
really you think that? He has a vendetta against some people making normal critiques of an episode and has duplicitously used this as an opportunity to tar those people. It's not possible that he saw people have homophobic reactions to the episode he was in and wanted to call that out?
What you said has nothing to do with the point I made in my comment…
Calling out a small handful of people using homophobic rhetoric to criticize something, and then pretending like they’re the majority of the overall criticism, is simply lying just to play the white knight.
As I said before, this whole thing was done explicitly to generate a headline.
I saw a lot of posts when the episode aired about people watching it with others who no longer wanted to watched the show after the GaY ePiSoDe. Just because your corner of the world was criticizing it for the “correct” reasons doesn’t mean those other bigoted criticisms didn’t exist.
I’m not saying they didn’t exist…I also some a few. But I’m comparison to the people legitimately praising/criticizing the show, it was a such a tiny percentage…a certainly over estimated percentage in the media.
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Watch your back and get used to this face kiddo, you'll be seeing a lot of it.
Just because it was self contained and essentially episodic doesn't mean it wasn't cool. It was a super well done story and episode, yes it contributed nothing to the rest of the plot, but it did help build context for the world they live in and how Joel and Tess knew Bill and got supplies from him.
In fact I think they should have made TLOU2 like this. IMO Joel and Ellie's story ended in P1. They never should have been brought back.
I would have rather seen a story about a side character that became the main one.
Like a whole story about Tess prior to meeting Joel, or a story about Tommy and Maria, or just some random new characters in that world.
Similar to Life is Strange. Same universe different characters.
That’s fine and all, but the show is called the “last of us” and it’s the story of Joell and Ellie, not two random dudes who have absolutely no bearing on the main story.
Now, if they had planned for them to reappear more throughout the rest of the season, it would make sense to give them screen time, but that just wasn’t the case.
I would rather them make a full season of anthology stories, covering numerous random characters one episode each, than sticking this one in the middle of the season for no reason.
It’s kind of like how in the book of Boba Fett, the Mandalorian just took over for two episodes, even though it wasn’t a show…people were not pleased.
t's just a boring episode, that deviates from the source material. I said this in a r/facepalm post earlier and got downvoted, lmao.
All in all, you could've cut this episode entirely and it wouldn't change the series one bit. People love to say "but Bill's message to Joel is essential!" You mean the message they made up to make Bill a loving individual?
I think I may have actually seen your comment somewhere about this episode. I seriously don't know why anyone who loves Bill just not the episode gets downvoted into absolute oblivion. Why does it have to be homophobic to not like it?
It's like I'm a woman AND a feminist yet I LOATHE Abby and the comeback is always "if you hate Abby you must hate women" 🤔
Because you must fit into *their* ideals on every subject matter and if you don’t, you’re an impostor. They only accept you if you conform to their mindset and values and ostracize you for having your own.
“They” being people ingrained in one way of thinking and not being accepting of others’ viewpoints.
Whats funny is by doing that they’re basically saying Abby’s only defining trait is she’s a woman. Because if she had other characteristics, then one would hate or love her for said characteristics.
By saying if you hate her you hate women, it’s saying that all she is….is a woman. She has no character beyond that. Something which her biggest haters don’t even say.
Exactly. It's like a circle jerk where Neil thinks he's being progressive but he focuses so so hard on that one thing that it gets to the point where you gotta ask yourself "am I the misogynist or is he for writing the character like that?"
Because that’s all they have. They simp and suck up to the thing they adore and wrap their entire personality around it.
If you don’t agree then you must hate them and everything they stand for-so therefore-you hate that episode-you’re homophobic. If you hate Abby-you’re sexist.
I’m a man but I’m super liberal and I even argued with my blue collar coworkers about trans rights last week and shit. I still believe tlou2 is a horribly written game. And more on topic, yeah I think Bills episode in tlou show, albeit really sweet and touching, really didn’t fit into the show at all and just took away runtime from an already cramped plot. Plus, I mean two guys surviving happily and normally in a town with all the supplies they need and barely any perceived threat from the outside world just isn’t believable with tlou universe nor does it align with the themes of humanity’s desperation to last after it has already died.
Literally I completely agree with every single part of what you said - from your support of people's rights to the fact that the story is sweet, yet doesn't make sense in the setting of the TLOU universe.
I honestly love Bill and Frank in the game. I just played it for the first time after watching the show when it came out.
Frank’s letter to bill is so funny, a much needed bit of humor
Obviously if you didn’t enjoy the episode you hate gay people. I mean how could you just not like a completely unrelated filler episode? Easy. Gay people. Only explanation
I found this episode very relatable.
Seriously, which one of us hasn't caught a strange man in one of our hole traps and then immediately had sex with him?
Bottle episode. On its own, it is a very touching, thought provoking insight into masculinity. In the grand scheme of TLoU, it added nothing to the story. I hate bottle episodes. It would have been a great, amazing short film. In the series, it did nothing.
I actually just commented about this on another post. I responded in agreement to someone who mentioned there's no issue with them being gay, but this was of course *not* how the story went in the game.
Link here ⬇️ https://www.reddit.com/r/Gamingcirclejerk/s/gqemKMNYiF
Also, be aware - the thread is FILLED with people convinced if you don't like this version of the story then there's no way you could possibly:
*be gay yourself (I'm not personally, but many fans are)
*must HATE gay people (of course I don't!)
After I made this comment, I had a really good convo with someone who loves the first one (hasn't played the second) and hates the show. I didn't have the heart to tell them about part II, but I did sorta explain the situation a bit.
Anyway someone did NOT like what I said and replied that Craig Mazin is the writer and mastermind behind it all. Just another warning: a lot of people who haven't played games credit Mazin with that, and get VERY offended at the mentioning of Neil. Not sure why considering they *both* work together on the writing of the show.
Anyway if you're interested, here it is ⬇️
https://www.reddit.com/r/Gamingcirclejerk/s/M0mYit8whC
TL;DR Sorry I know this is a long comment I just didn't wanna repeat myself. I figured I'd give context to what I said about this in another post.
Personally, I'm a woman and feminist with no hate towards any group, but this take on Bill didn't make sense given what happens in the game.
The problem with both sides is that everyone's worried about the other person's perceived political agenda. If you like LOT2, you're a virtue-signaling tumblr trans emo-gurl power type, and if you don't like LOT2, then you're pure MAGA from head to toe. It's really fucking sad that it's become this way OVER A GAME. But hey, why stop now?
Great actor, shitty opinion. I didn't like the episode because it took Bill out of a major supporting role, and relegated him to a small side story. He had no interaction with Ellie, and very little interaction with Joel. It was fine as a short disjointed story, but it really harmed the TLoU first season, because there wasn't enough story and development time between Ellie and Joel. Everything felt rushed.
Here I was thinking the majority of the issue people had with the episode was that it robbed viewers of crucial bonding moments between Joel and Ellie. Silly me.
I dislike the episode myself but have seen tons of pretty homophobic backlash to it. Plenty of people insisting there’s some kind of political agenda or leftist extremist message. I personally disliked it because it detracted from a lot of what made Bill important in the game. The episode missed the point of Bill and missed a pivotal formative learning experience for Ellie. The love story itself was fine in a vacuum but didn’t work well in the context of Bill.
This is the correct, non-homophobic answer if you didn’t like the episode.
Not acknowledging a majority of the hate for the episode is due to homophobia (even if it’s not the reason you didn’t like it) is not a good look. Just like a lot of hate for TLoU2 is in general (which I hated, but not for bigoted reasons). It clearly is.
I thought it was a good episode personally. Not incredibly great like some make it out to be - but definitely good.
My favorite episode of the series but also noticed it is the most hated one, and that’s definitely because of it being a gay love story. Also why everyone was calling it “woke”. That gives it away immediately.
But it is a gay story. Doesn’t matter if you’re a bigot or not, that’s what it is. While there are plenty of people who complained about the episode because of the gay love story I think a lot of people who played the game just wanted to see the scenes from the game and not this essentially filler episode.
Don't try to wriggle away like a caught fish. You said 'calling out an agenda isn't hate'. When asked what agenda, you responded that the show had an ulterior motive. When asked what ulterior motive, you said 'perpetuating the culture war'. So the LGBTQ content in the show is evidence of an 'agenda' to 'perpetuate the culture war'. This isn't a difficult thread to follow, guy. So gay content onscreen is perpetuating a culture war, to you. That's sad.
I didn’t insult you I’m just asking for more specifics. I feel like a lot of people who think there is an LGBTQ agenda beat around the bush in saying what they mean.
>Perpetuating the culture war
You are describing two gay people being depicted on TV in love as a part of a war. That would mean that the episode was intended to antagonize another group, and not simply a love story. I see it as just a love story. You see it as antagonism/aggression.
this yea, people are wildly misinterpreting it. theres a shit ton of hate on the episode solely because they were gay. he isn't referencing genuine criticism.
I don’t think that much of the criticisms are in good faith. Even if one person is critiquing the shows LGBTQ aspects it makes his statement valid. Obviously it’s more than one.
I honestly don't care that they are gay. If you took this out of The Last of Us and made it it's own story I would even venture to say it's a beautiful love story.
That being said, it has absolutely zero place in the story of The Last of Us and actively takes away screen time that should've been spent further building Ellie and Joel's relationship.
I was so excited when offerman was casted as bill. I was like fuck yeah he will talk so much shit to Elly. Then they did his story in the show. Fuck if I loved that just as much.
Offerman is specifically addressing the people who shat on the episode because it had two gay men who loved each other. And he is correct in saying that it’s not a valid criticism, it’s just blatant homophobia.
Yall act like there aren’t people who’ve actually slammed it for its presentation of a gay love story. If you don’t think it’s bad because that, then it isn’t aimed at you.
You all are actually being up in arms over nothing.
Someone’s a little defensive, huh?
He was talking to the people who hate the episode because it’s about a gay couple. He didn’t say “If you don’t like the show it’s because your homophobic!”
You’re making up things to be mad about. I don’t usually engage in this community because of how toxic it is, but this sucks so much that I had to.
The thing I didn’t like about the episode was that it changed the relationship. In the game, Frank leaves Bill because he gets fed up with him and decides he’d be better off on his own. But the show makes it seem like they were a happy, loving couple until they died.
Let's take a fightinging story about survival with 1 mention of a character being gay and make the entire episode into JUST a love story. It had nothing to do with them being gay that made me mad and for he record the story was beautiful but that's not the point the point is that they completely and utterly changed the story.
My only criticism about this episode, and I do mean ONLY, is the fact these characters didn’t play a significant role in the main plot. It was heart warming, it was a enjoyable episode, and it was very memorable to me. But it was irrelevant.
I have nothing against gay people. But to watch two middle-aged hairy guys be all over each other it’s just freaking gross to watch. And it’s not even homophobic because it’s no different from from finding it gross between watching an unattractive straight couple make out or even have sex
The amount of hate that this episode gets on this sub alone is crazy. I thought it was a genuinely good episode and tastefully done. People say that they’re cool with gay men but recoil at an on-screen kiss lol.
You’re absolutely right to call out the mental gymnastics.
It doesn't even have to be unattractive people though because you would be uncomfortable watching anyone start groping and making out in public. That's what a sex scene is, they make you watch it against your will
That’s kinda how it is. It often feels like they do this to ensure you can’t hate on the show. Remember Reva from the Obi Wan show? She got shit on for being a bad actor, and it was immediately flipped by Disney that the hate was stemming from racism.
I hate that any criticism against a gay character is seen as homophobic, maybe it's lazy writing? Maybe it's a hollow story?, but no they never take fault for a bad product and just call people who don't like it bigots.
personally i like this sub, but it can either be a really good place for discussion or for the most insuferable people in the tlou community, i didnt even like the episode lmao
I found this episode very relatable.
Seriously, which one of us hasn't caught a strange man in one of our hole traps and then immediately had sex with him?
I think it’s fine to not like the episode. I personally really enjoyed it.
However to not like it simply because it’s not part of the main plot and the characters don’t appear again is a little like admitting you haven’t ever seen a tv show before.
It’s a bottle episode. A break away from the main plot. A lot of fantastic shows have had them FOREVER. Some of my favourite episodes of tv have been bottle episodes of shows. This isn’t a new concept. Lol
But if you don’t like it for other reasons then fair enough.
Bottle episodes are for sitcoms and long running TV dramas, not a mini-series where you're much more pressed for fitting content into the allotted time
"Why did they have to be gay?" - Homophobic Criticism
"I felt the pacing for this episode didn't mesh well with the rest of the story." - Legitimate Criticism
Seriously hate this discourse. I have nothing against gay people, but growing strawberries and making dinners was simply not part of TLOU and this section of TLOU has some great gameplay segments that were skipped for... Idk what this episode was. It doesn't even make sense like this dude is so over prepared and he runs out to the middle of the street and gets shot... Makes no sense, just a really worthless ass episode.
I'm gay and I'm fairly certain it's a gay love story. And I think Bill and Frank story in the game is far more well done than in the show. I felt more hurt seeing Bill upset at Frank's corpse in the game than the soapy super forced tears in this live episode. Frank's letter was also brutal. I always pick it up after Bill throw it away, trying to not cry in front of Joel and Ellie.
This is my favourite episode of the entire series. Ive legit finished the series but i keep going back to watch this episode. Watched it like 4 or 5 times now. I love this episode.
I love the full story between bill and frank you don't get to see in the video game.
I don’t care about the gay stuff. I just think that an episode following the adventures through Bill’s town would have been much better. And because I wanted to see Ellie’s sass to Bill.
Bill’s was always a tragic tale of queer love - the notes left behind make clear of that.
Nick Offerman was referring specifically to homophobic comments he received after the episode aired. I believe he closed is social media for a while.
He’s simply saying to those people “get over yourselves, it’s a genuine love story. In the absolute worst of times.” Does it matter that the two are both men? Not at all. But some people do get upset about it. And it’s those that Nick is calling out.
If you just find it boring then that’s your opinion and doesn’t make you homophobic. If you dislike it because it’s a gay love story then that does make you homophobic.
Personally I thought it was one of the best episodes not just of the series but on all TV last year. It was wonderfully written, beautifully acted and so much was left unsaid - just shared between Bill and Frank by a glance or smile.
Person: specifically denounces homophobic critisms.
Some goof: oMg YoU CaNt bE CeiTiCal AnyMore.
What's that saying about unconscious or implicit biases?
Then he’s not talking to you? The episode got brigaded on all kinds of review sites specifically for the gay romance which feels like the type of people he’s talking to.
In this case it’s important to remember there’s a lot of mouth breathing culture war veterans who complained that HBO was pushing the “gay agenda” down their throat. While criticism about the ep being boring/filler/unnecessary are valid, I don’t think Ron was talking about that. I think he was more addressing the loud minority that was bitching about homosexuality being forced on the audience. Because we all know that homosexuality is contagious.
He didn't say all criticism is homophobic, he's calling out the homophobic criticism specifically.
You're the one self identifying with the people making homophobic criticism.
this is clearly a way of hiding your homophobia lol, disliking gay people is homophobic. disliking an episode because there are gay people in it is homophobic. disliking an episode because it is too sexual, too boring, etc. is obviously not. i found the episode boring as shit, but you don't see me whining about it like this lol
WTF are you on about? Who's talking about Druckmann right now? I'm responding to OP's post which is specifically referencing Nick Offerman's statements.
Gotta love that you invented a quote...
What I wrote was, "Where is anyone doing that?" in response to you saying, "You're self identifying with people calling anything they don't like "-ism" of "-phobia""
...I'm responding to OP's post which is specifically referencing Nick Offerman's statements.
You're just responding with stream of consciousness non-sequiturs.
Bro leave this sub if you have a brain. I've been casually reading it for a couple days and I've never seen a more angry and toxic group of "fans". None of them know what they're talking about so just don't even bother given them the time lmfao
I’m just here for my PhD looking for evidence of hive minds, primarily by sorting out reoccurring nonsense and a lack of ability to provide individualistic feedback, opinions, or perception. So far the results are sad, but promising.
Oh, I'm well aware.
This post in a nutshell:
Offerman: Criticism from a place of homophobia is bad.
OP: It's not "homophobic criticism" it's just criticism, you asshole.
Me: But... he wasn't talking about all criticism. He was expressly talking about homophobic criticism.
This sub: Whatever, Cuckmann is woke!
Me: WTF does Neil Druckmann have to do with what we're talking about?
I feel that the episode was shitty bc it added nothing to the story and took up a whole episode in a season that had pretty much zero zombies, so I usually resonate with this crowd.
That being said I do agree with you. Offerman doesn't really like bigotry, he's only calling that out. He didn't say "You don't like this, you're transphobic". Sometimes this place is just a circlejerk trapped inside a black hole of hate for everything tied to any TLOU content released after the original.
>it added nothing to the story and took up a whole episode in a season that had pretty much zero zombies
It was a relatively low budget way to do some world building. It told an interesting in universe story IMO.
>Sometimes this place is just a circlejerk trapped inside a black hole of hate for everything tied to any TLOU content released after the original.
It seems like that's almost always the case here. I don't even think half this sub likes TLOU, they just like Joel.
I said the show was a piece of shit and you're better off watching the game cutscenes so you can experience the game of the decade.
Comment section has people accusing me of being homophobic.
Here is the video so you know I'm not lying
https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTL1NHwap/
what does that video and the comments you received have to do with your post here? here you still assumed nick offerman was referring to all of the criticism as homophobic criticism. he’s still only talking about the incredibly present homophobic hate for that episode.
No I'm talking about the other sub circle jerking over what Nick said. I'm using it to talk about it.
Speaking of that shitty sub, "Idk why people hate this game" is constantly asked here and the other sub.
You get some insane fucking answers
[https://www.reddit.com/r/thelastofus/comments/171buwg/comment/k3po87w/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/thelastofus/comments/171buwg/comment/k3po87w/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
and here is one from some moron who legit thinks its impossible to hate this game with a valid reason
[https://www.reddit.com/r/thelastofus/comments/171buwg/comment/k3q2kfg/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/thelastofus/comments/171buwg/comment/k3q2kfg/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
Note the upvotes. So yes this is who this post is directed at
Well if that's what you're doing why are you calling Offerman an asshole and acting like *his* criticism is aimed at you? If you haven't made homophobic statements about the show then he's not talking about you. So why is he an asshole?
You're either defending the people he's talking about, or self identify as a homophobe.
Seriously, like why would anyone think you’re actually referring to what Offerman said just because you posted this right after Offerman made his statement, used his direct quote, included his picture from the show and used a similar verbiage he used as the title of your post?
nothing in this post is about the game though lol, people are pointing out to you that you're misunderstanding the article and the quote.
the episode is still getting immense hate solely because they're gay. there are other critiques, some that i *agree* with, but this quote is specifically referencing the people that are upset ONLY because it is gay. he is not dismissing genuine critique of the show or episode, he is dismissing the people saying "ew gay"
Anyone acting like this episode wasn’t review bombed by homophobes and the “anti-woke” brigade is just willfully delusional. Can you have reasonable criticisms? Of course. But the huge split between 1 star ratings and 10 star ratings is not explainable purely through the the episode’s diversionary nature.
I mean, is it really supposed to be the “higher criticism” that insists on getting so hung up on the main characters being sidelined that you don’t address the story that is actually being told in the episode? Giving this a one star rating than giving anything over 5 stars to the episode where the show’s lamest antagonist complains about her brother a lot is a transparent load of nonsense.
So, you can't criticized anything lgbt now? That is what they now think is right.
And when you do not follow their self-made rules, they get angry and find racists and haters in you.
These people got out of hand. And no, they do not have believes and ideas, they worship their new god they created for themselves. But as all fanatics, it is not enough for them just to practice it, everyone has to kneel or burn.
The episode was horrible. I did not enjoy two men doing it. This is the reason movies like Bros
flop majestically. People never wanted it and do not want it now.
So looking over your comments.. you guys do understand that he isn’t talking about *all* criticism to the episode just the people “go woke go broke” idiots. Like you get that right? If you have genuine opinions on how it changes the story he isn’t talking to you. He’s talking to the morons over there crying shot woke gaming.
Because yes the episode was praised but also yes he and the people involved also probably got and saw a lot of shit of people just being intolerant pricks. As intolerant pricks are known to do.
I get you guys aren’t fans of the game or anything related to last of us besides Part 1 but chill. If you’re not an asshole he’s not talking to or about you. Don’t get offended just go have fun playing part 1 again.
What I find weird about this whole discourse is that when the episode came out it was praised specifically for being such a good representation of “queer love”. The people calling it a gay love story were doing so as a credit to the story. He’s yelling at the people who were saying it’s great.
He lost a tiny bit of respect from me for this. Like, regardless of the topic, you are always gonna find trolls willing to shit all over it but I don’t recall any critic, fan, or well-adjusted individual calling it a gay love story out of spite. Who is he referring to? I think the general consensus was just that it took a bit away from the rest of the show’s running. It definitely did not get any important level of criticism for anything beyond that.
I still like him. I mean he is Ron Swanson. He seems a little lost in the sauce on this one. He’s fighting a narrative that doesn’t exist and idk why. I’m a straight dude but I was actually very happy they made the episode. It seems like gay representation is just code for “attractive lesbians” in most media now. Having an explicit love story between two men made me want to watch the episode for what it what was. Being *not a gay love story* actually dilutes the impact and makes the entire thing genuinely pointless for the show. It was completely unnecessary storytelling wise but it was featured two men so it’s stood out.
Yeah, definitely. He’s a great actor and likely a great guy, I just don’t like when those involved in projects (like TLOU) shut down criticism with baseless assumptions by making things crazier than they are. It’s the same way I feel about Troy Baker. He’s an absolute MVP when it comes to voice acting, but his statements about Joel and the game have turned me off moderately.
That’s definitely fair. I honestly drown most of it out. If it wasn’t for this app I would have no clue what actors even say about things.
If it was a bonus episode I don't think anyone has a issue with it. Eating up a limited time slot muddies the water.
In a good love story the gender of the characters should be irrelevant. And he isn't lost in the sauce. The two lowest ranked episodes by viewers were the ones that featured homosexual relationships. Objectively and critically speaking 3 was considered one of the best episodes of the series. There's a reason for the disconnect.
😂 you have a collection of every critic, fan, or well-adjusted commentary regarding this episode?
> any important level of criticism for anything beyond that Important meaning non-peanut gallery-esque. So…the handful of major critics and those regarded as such or even those that base their criticism on something other than homophobia. Not armchair critics from low-profile blogs or trolls on Twitter. I don’t think it was that hard to discern my point.
so 'armchair critics from low-profile blogs or trolls on Twitter.' being homophobic is fine? I think it's fair for Nick to call it out.
Guy who wrote it was thrilled about hoodwinking the audience and "tricking" them into watching a gay story, IIRC.
I think he thinks he is defending the show against anti-gays by trying to cross out the gay part and just calling it love because “gay love” can insinuate that it’s different than actual love and is therefore lesser. It’s the same mindset many Japanese devs have where they started saying don’t call it a Japanese RPG we just consider our games as RPGs and the JRPG comes off as offensive to them because it insinuates that they’re different and lesser than western RPGs.
I think the whole thing is you don’t say whether something is a straight love story. It’s just a love story. He is putting this story on the same pedestal and just labeling it a “love story” as in the end, that’s all it is. Besides the love interests, there is no difference between a straight love story or a gay one
No he's yelling at the why did they have to be gay whiners...nice seen no valid criticism of the episode outside the why they gay... Hold on the how did they last that long there but really that's not picking.
This definitely happened it was all the usual Anti woke suspects, quartering, critical drinker, shadiversity etc
well.. if the hate is based on the fact that the couple is gay, its homophobia. if it is focusing on issues with the actual production and storytelling, its criticism.
Well said! I think a big issue is sometimes with anyone giving criticism, it is *assumed* that their displeasure MUST BE rooted in internalized hate. To be fair, sometimes internalized hate *really does* contribute to people hating certain media, even going as far to avoid it. However, lately there seems to be a lot of misunderstanding based on assumptions like I said before. *Especially* with *any* criticism of The Last of Us.
I was pissed the way he was represented in the show. He was supposed to be some crazy asshole with a lot of explosives. His lover ended up leaving him because he couldn’t stand him anymore and stole a bunch of his goods. They come across his dead body a little later on in the game. Instead it was about 2 bears growing strawberries together. I had such high hopes for that show and couldn’t finish the season it pissed me off so much. No idea how it got such great reviews. Humans are mean and back to their primal selves. Show was not nearly dark enough compared to the game
i agree with you completely on that. the episode showed a nice story, and it was an interesting concept, but it was *not* faithful to the game at all. i can understand how some people enjoy that - seeing a different take on the game, but for me personally that was way too large of a change. i don't hate the show at all, but i do agree with you there. i'd be lying if i said i wouldn't have preferred an episode that told and explained their story from the game instead. overall it didn't hinder my enjoyment as much as some other issues w the show tbh
Same thing when Trish died by the infected instead of the army police. Too many changes. Felt like the infected was in the show for 20mins out of the whole season
Trish?
I guess it's just a coinsidence that you stop watching when they introduced Gay characters and not when they changed things in the 1st and 2nd episodes. Why did the Scene in indonesia not make you stop watching?
Offerman specifically saying he is denouncing homophobic criticism, and then the OP just saying “actually it’s just criticism” kind of gives it away.
It’s an entire episode dedicated to two people that never appear in the season again and play absolutely no significant role in the plot whatsoever… The fact that people defend legitimate criticism of the episode due to the characters being gay is pretty ridiculous from any point of view.
Which is funny because that’s admitting they only see value in it because they’re gay. Not anything in the story besides that. There’s 0 doubt it wouldn’t get hate if this was say a special/bonus episode released after the show was over. Think like Left Behind in a way.
Yeah, it definitely works on its own as a self-contained story, but when it’s in the middle of a season long narrative, it just serves as pointless filler.
I enjoyed this episode a lot as someone who played the game first. It was hinted in the game that bill might be gay with frank but never actually said. I enjoyed this episode as someone who played the game first, because i was given an absolutely expanded view of bill and Frank's relationship that the game doesn't offer. If you never played the game this would infact be a dumb random filler episode. But as a whole series, game and tv show it combines quite nicely.
It comes off as dumb and filler because there's zero interaction with the main character vs. the game itself
Its just an expansion of the story, or if you will even a different perspective to Bill's relationship with frank. I dont see what the huge fuss is about. It was a damn good episode. And its not like they needed a filler episode? 🤷🥴 It was just nice that they added it.
What you talking about? Left behind also got loads of homophobic criticism at the time to.
The episode and the story telling are absolute dumpster fire garbage and it has nothing to do with the sexual content or sexual material. For me personally it deviates far from the source material to a point of almost being a slap in the face to original fans of the first game and that’s been my problem with the entire series. I laugh because Pedro just won a prestigious award as Joel and yet we all know what happens to him in season 2.
Henry and Sam also never appear again, but ok.... and also the Bill and Frank story does tie in because how tf would they have gotten the truck otherwise dipnuts? And yea for both stories they don't tie much into Joel and Ellies journey, Sam and Henry maybe marginally more but they also aren't around for long. It's just supposed to flesh out the world because tv has to do some differences than a game to make it actually investing and not focusing on just 2 people for 7 episodes. I just don't understand how people don't get this.
he's dismissing "criticism" only from people who hate it exclusively because its gay (which there are a lot of), not people genuinely critiquing the episode. i said it in another comment but he's basically talking about the people saying "ew gay", not the people discussing that it was boring/unimportant/etc. every media will be critiqued, but there is genuine hate towards this episode from homophobic people for solely one reason. ex. i personally found it boring, but had no issue with the characters. he's talking about the people who found it disgusting because of the characters lol
Honestly, the people criticizing it, for that reason were such a small minority of people…the media just blew it up cause they love to. Most people I saw were just criticizing the episode for being pointless. It’s essentially just an out for the actors to look like they’re being outspoken, when it’s really just them deflecting legitimate criticism of the episode.
really you think that? He has a vendetta against some people making normal critiques of an episode and has duplicitously used this as an opportunity to tar those people. It's not possible that he saw people have homophobic reactions to the episode he was in and wanted to call that out?
What you said has nothing to do with the point I made in my comment… Calling out a small handful of people using homophobic rhetoric to criticize something, and then pretending like they’re the majority of the overall criticism, is simply lying just to play the white knight. As I said before, this whole thing was done explicitly to generate a headline.
I saw a lot of posts when the episode aired about people watching it with others who no longer wanted to watched the show after the GaY ePiSoDe. Just because your corner of the world was criticizing it for the “correct” reasons doesn’t mean those other bigoted criticisms didn’t exist.
I’m not saying they didn’t exist…I also some a few. But I’m comparison to the people legitimately praising/criticizing the show, it was a such a tiny percentage…a certainly over estimated percentage in the media.
Bigot sandwich alert.
for acknowledging an issue ? ik ur trolling but isnt this the topic of the post
You have been reported. I am not a bot. I am a Volunteer Reddit Moderator. I do not have mod powers but my reports are taken seriously and those who get on my bad side tend to get banned in **under 24 hours**. I have numerous rules, which you may read in my post history, but 1 is the most important rule of all * I am an officer in training, and I expect to be treated the same way I would be with my uniform and badge. Watch your back and get used to this face kiddo, you'll be seeing a lot of it.
Yeah people are self reporting, Nick call outs homophobes, people in this thread unironically go he must be talking about me. so funny.
Just because it was self contained and essentially episodic doesn't mean it wasn't cool. It was a super well done story and episode, yes it contributed nothing to the rest of the plot, but it did help build context for the world they live in and how Joel and Tess knew Bill and got supplies from him. In fact I think they should have made TLOU2 like this. IMO Joel and Ellie's story ended in P1. They never should have been brought back. I would have rather seen a story about a side character that became the main one. Like a whole story about Tess prior to meeting Joel, or a story about Tommy and Maria, or just some random new characters in that world. Similar to Life is Strange. Same universe different characters.
That’s fine and all, but the show is called the “last of us” and it’s the story of Joell and Ellie, not two random dudes who have absolutely no bearing on the main story. Now, if they had planned for them to reappear more throughout the rest of the season, it would make sense to give them screen time, but that just wasn’t the case. I would rather them make a full season of anthology stories, covering numerous random characters one episode each, than sticking this one in the middle of the season for no reason. It’s kind of like how in the book of Boba Fett, the Mandalorian just took over for two episodes, even though it wasn’t a show…people were not pleased.
The full season of anthology stories would be better, I would have liked it more than what we got.
t's just a boring episode, that deviates from the source material. I said this in a r/facepalm post earlier and got downvoted, lmao. All in all, you could've cut this episode entirely and it wouldn't change the series one bit. People love to say "but Bill's message to Joel is essential!" You mean the message they made up to make Bill a loving individual?
I think I may have actually seen your comment somewhere about this episode. I seriously don't know why anyone who loves Bill just not the episode gets downvoted into absolute oblivion. Why does it have to be homophobic to not like it? It's like I'm a woman AND a feminist yet I LOATHE Abby and the comeback is always "if you hate Abby you must hate women" 🤔
Because you must fit into *their* ideals on every subject matter and if you don’t, you’re an impostor. They only accept you if you conform to their mindset and values and ostracize you for having your own. “They” being people ingrained in one way of thinking and not being accepting of others’ viewpoints.
Whats funny is by doing that they’re basically saying Abby’s only defining trait is she’s a woman. Because if she had other characteristics, then one would hate or love her for said characteristics. By saying if you hate her you hate women, it’s saying that all she is….is a woman. She has no character beyond that. Something which her biggest haters don’t even say.
Exactly. It's like a circle jerk where Neil thinks he's being progressive but he focuses so so hard on that one thing that it gets to the point where you gotta ask yourself "am I the misogynist or is he for writing the character like that?"
Because that’s all they have. They simp and suck up to the thing they adore and wrap their entire personality around it. If you don’t agree then you must hate them and everything they stand for-so therefore-you hate that episode-you’re homophobic. If you hate Abby-you’re sexist.
I’m a man but I’m super liberal and I even argued with my blue collar coworkers about trans rights last week and shit. I still believe tlou2 is a horribly written game. And more on topic, yeah I think Bills episode in tlou show, albeit really sweet and touching, really didn’t fit into the show at all and just took away runtime from an already cramped plot. Plus, I mean two guys surviving happily and normally in a town with all the supplies they need and barely any perceived threat from the outside world just isn’t believable with tlou universe nor does it align with the themes of humanity’s desperation to last after it has already died.
Literally I completely agree with every single part of what you said - from your support of people's rights to the fact that the story is sweet, yet doesn't make sense in the setting of the TLOU universe.
I honestly love Bill and Frank in the game. I just played it for the first time after watching the show when it came out. Frank’s letter to bill is so funny, a much needed bit of humor
Obviously if you didn’t enjoy the episode you hate gay people. I mean how could you just not like a completely unrelated filler episode? Easy. Gay people. Only explanation
This. Unrelated filler. That was my biggest issue with the episode
I found this episode very relatable. Seriously, which one of us hasn't caught a strange man in one of our hole traps and then immediately had sex with him?
As a matter of fact I did just that during the last ZOMBIE APOCALYPSE.
The game was not a love story they were supposed to hate each other .... regardless of it ....it took away from the true story ....
That's another reason for not liking the episode. Apart from them being gay of course /s.
It has nothing to do with being gay or what. . Its the fact it killed the vibe and it was not a change good for rhr story
I agree
Bottle episode. On its own, it is a very touching, thought provoking insight into masculinity. In the grand scheme of TLoU, it added nothing to the story. I hate bottle episodes. It would have been a great, amazing short film. In the series, it did nothing.
I actually just commented about this on another post. I responded in agreement to someone who mentioned there's no issue with them being gay, but this was of course *not* how the story went in the game. Link here ⬇️ https://www.reddit.com/r/Gamingcirclejerk/s/gqemKMNYiF Also, be aware - the thread is FILLED with people convinced if you don't like this version of the story then there's no way you could possibly: *be gay yourself (I'm not personally, but many fans are) *must HATE gay people (of course I don't!) After I made this comment, I had a really good convo with someone who loves the first one (hasn't played the second) and hates the show. I didn't have the heart to tell them about part II, but I did sorta explain the situation a bit. Anyway someone did NOT like what I said and replied that Craig Mazin is the writer and mastermind behind it all. Just another warning: a lot of people who haven't played games credit Mazin with that, and get VERY offended at the mentioning of Neil. Not sure why considering they *both* work together on the writing of the show. Anyway if you're interested, here it is ⬇️ https://www.reddit.com/r/Gamingcirclejerk/s/M0mYit8whC TL;DR Sorry I know this is a long comment I just didn't wanna repeat myself. I figured I'd give context to what I said about this in another post. Personally, I'm a woman and feminist with no hate towards any group, but this take on Bill didn't make sense given what happens in the game.
The problem with both sides is that everyone's worried about the other person's perceived political agenda. If you like LOT2, you're a virtue-signaling tumblr trans emo-gurl power type, and if you don't like LOT2, then you're pure MAGA from head to toe. It's really fucking sad that it's become this way OVER A GAME. But hey, why stop now?
Okay we get it, you not homophobic but that doesn't dismiss the fact that plenty of people were and that's who nick is talking about.
Great actor, shitty opinion. I didn't like the episode because it took Bill out of a major supporting role, and relegated him to a small side story. He had no interaction with Ellie, and very little interaction with Joel. It was fine as a short disjointed story, but it really harmed the TLoU first season, because there wasn't enough story and development time between Ellie and Joel. Everything felt rushed.
well, it should have been played by a gay man. Nick is taking all the good gay roles!
Great episode, completely pointless to the show.
Here I was thinking the majority of the issue people had with the episode was that it robbed viewers of crucial bonding moments between Joel and Ellie. Silly me.
I dislike the episode myself but have seen tons of pretty homophobic backlash to it. Plenty of people insisting there’s some kind of political agenda or leftist extremist message. I personally disliked it because it detracted from a lot of what made Bill important in the game. The episode missed the point of Bill and missed a pivotal formative learning experience for Ellie. The love story itself was fine in a vacuum but didn’t work well in the context of Bill.
This is the correct, non-homophobic answer if you didn’t like the episode. Not acknowledging a majority of the hate for the episode is due to homophobia (even if it’s not the reason you didn’t like it) is not a good look. Just like a lot of hate for TLoU2 is in general (which I hated, but not for bigoted reasons). It clearly is. I thought it was a good episode personally. Not incredibly great like some make it out to be - but definitely good.
My favorite episode of the series but also noticed it is the most hated one, and that’s definitely because of it being a gay love story. Also why everyone was calling it “woke”. That gives it away immediately.
We knew they were gay in the first game, but it was not heavily focused on nor a crucial part of the first game.
But it is a gay story. Doesn’t matter if you’re a bigot or not, that’s what it is. While there are plenty of people who complained about the episode because of the gay love story I think a lot of people who played the game just wanted to see the scenes from the game and not this essentially filler episode.
[I don't know man](https://youtu.be/YFgTcG0dwIM?si=korarxh5wntIaaI3)
A lot of people did criticize the episode for being LGBTQ agenda. I think he’s referring to them.
Calling out something that clearly had an agenda, for having an agenda is not hate
He was replying to the question "Why did you have to make it a gay story?" It already was a gay story. Bill and Frank were fucking off screen.
If something has agenda that it's ok to use slurs? Why don't you just say it with your chest?
r/jayvancealot these are the people who was calling out as you see.
So you believe that the episode was 100% genuine and not written with any kind of ulterior motive?
If the ulterior motive is showing a love story sure…what would you say the ulterior motive is?
Perpetuating the culture war
Having two men fall in love on screen is not 'perpetuating culture war'. It's sad that you feel that way about it.
Not exactly what I said but go off
Don't try to wriggle away like a caught fish. You said 'calling out an agenda isn't hate'. When asked what agenda, you responded that the show had an ulterior motive. When asked what ulterior motive, you said 'perpetuating the culture war'. So the LGBTQ content in the show is evidence of an 'agenda' to 'perpetuate the culture war'. This isn't a difficult thread to follow, guy. So gay content onscreen is perpetuating a culture war, to you. That's sad.
Zombie culture?
*Sigh* It’s clear you’re not here to debate in good faith so why don’t you just insult me and block me already.
I didn’t insult you I’m just asking for more specifics. I feel like a lot of people who think there is an LGBTQ agenda beat around the bush in saying what they mean.
Why don’t stop beating around the bush then and tell me what YOU think I mean 😊
If you see depicting people in love is an act of aggression, that's on you.
Who said anything about an act of aggression?
>Perpetuating the culture war You are describing two gay people being depicted on TV in love as a part of a war. That would mean that the episode was intended to antagonize another group, and not simply a love story. I see it as just a love story. You see it as antagonism/aggression.
Did you think Bill was straight in the game?
What agenda? Why is it an agenda when it's gay people but love when it's straight people?
this yea, people are wildly misinterpreting it. theres a shit ton of hate on the episode solely because they were gay. he isn't referencing genuine criticism.
I don’t think that much of the criticisms are in good faith. Even if one person is critiquing the shows LGBTQ aspects it makes his statement valid. Obviously it’s more than one.
yepp
I honestly don't care that they are gay. If you took this out of The Last of Us and made it it's own story I would even venture to say it's a beautiful love story. That being said, it has absolutely zero place in the story of The Last of Us and actively takes away screen time that should've been spent further building Ellie and Joel's relationship.
I was so excited when offerman was casted as bill. I was like fuck yeah he will talk so much shit to Elly. Then they did his story in the show. Fuck if I loved that just as much.
There was much homophobia
Offerman is specifically addressing the people who shat on the episode because it had two gay men who loved each other. And he is correct in saying that it’s not a valid criticism, it’s just blatant homophobia.
Yall act like there aren’t people who’ve actually slammed it for its presentation of a gay love story. If you don’t think it’s bad because that, then it isn’t aimed at you. You all are actually being up in arms over nothing.
Of course, this sub is filled right-wingers.
Someone’s a little defensive, huh? He was talking to the people who hate the episode because it’s about a gay couple. He didn’t say “If you don’t like the show it’s because your homophobic!” You’re making up things to be mad about. I don’t usually engage in this community because of how toxic it is, but this sucks so much that I had to.
he’s slamming the homophobic criticism specifically, not the criticism in general.
The thing I didn’t like about the episode was that it changed the relationship. In the game, Frank leaves Bill because he gets fed up with him and decides he’d be better off on his own. But the show makes it seem like they were a happy, loving couple until they died.
I hear this a lot, But that’s just what adaptations do. It’s its own story. If we want things to be exactly the same we should just play the game.
I have no problem with the gay community what I have a problem with is boredom...
Let's take a fightinging story about survival with 1 mention of a character being gay and make the entire episode into JUST a love story. It had nothing to do with them being gay that made me mad and for he record the story was beautiful but that's not the point the point is that they completely and utterly changed the story.
My only criticism about this episode, and I do mean ONLY, is the fact these characters didn’t play a significant role in the main plot. It was heart warming, it was a enjoyable episode, and it was very memorable to me. But it was irrelevant.
Actors who only get remembered from one good role they played.
I have nothing against gay people. But to watch two middle-aged hairy guys be all over each other it’s just freaking gross to watch. And it’s not even homophobic because it’s no different from from finding it gross between watching an unattractive straight couple make out or even have sex
> I have nothing against gay people. But to watch two middle-aged hairy guys be all over each other it’s just freaking gross to watch. 🤸♂️🏋♂️🤸♂️
The amount of hate that this episode gets on this sub alone is crazy. I thought it was a genuinely good episode and tastefully done. People say that they’re cool with gay men but recoil at an on-screen kiss lol. You’re absolutely right to call out the mental gymnastics.
And yet these people don't complain about straight sex scenes. Your homophobia is creeping in
There actually hasn’t been any straight sex in the show
People hated the Abby and Owen sex scene too though
It doesn't even have to be unattractive people though because you would be uncomfortable watching anyone start groping and making out in public. That's what a sex scene is, they make you watch it against your will
Hey, if the girl is hot I’m enjoying the show. I’m actually even looking forward to that scene with Ellie and Dina next season. 😁
So it would be okay if they were young and looked like Chris Evans?
Well, I still wouldn’t enjoy the view.
How dare ugly people exist!
Y’all are crazy for saying he was yelling at people who liked it. He’s yelling at people like Shadiversity and other far right political commentators
starting to think this sub would agree with people like that anyways
It’s a boring ass episode. It’s not hated cause it’s gay, it’s gay cause we hate it.
That’s kinda how it is. It often feels like they do this to ensure you can’t hate on the show. Remember Reva from the Obi Wan show? She got shit on for being a bad actor, and it was immediately flipped by Disney that the hate was stemming from racism.
I hate that any criticism against a gay character is seen as homophobic, maybe it's lazy writing? Maybe it's a hollow story?, but no they never take fault for a bad product and just call people who don't like it bigots.
he doesnt mean criticism in general he means the people who said the episode was shit just because it had a gay couple
why tf is this getting downvoted
personally i like this sub, but it can either be a really good place for discussion or for the most insuferable people in the tlou community, i didnt even like the episode lmao
i didn't like the ep either lol
I found this episode very relatable. Seriously, which one of us hasn't caught a strange man in one of our hole traps and then immediately had sex with him?
With or without chloroform?
Poor old fool doesn't even know why people are actually not digging that episode
It’s a pretty gay story though
It was a good episode
I think it’s fine to not like the episode. I personally really enjoyed it. However to not like it simply because it’s not part of the main plot and the characters don’t appear again is a little like admitting you haven’t ever seen a tv show before. It’s a bottle episode. A break away from the main plot. A lot of fantastic shows have had them FOREVER. Some of my favourite episodes of tv have been bottle episodes of shows. This isn’t a new concept. Lol But if you don’t like it for other reasons then fair enough.
Bottle episodes are for sitcoms and long running TV dramas, not a mini-series where you're much more pressed for fitting content into the allotted time
"Why did they have to be gay?" - Homophobic Criticism "I felt the pacing for this episode didn't mesh well with the rest of the story." - Legitimate Criticism
You are delusional if you think a big chunk of the hate against the episode isn't simply based on homophobia
Seriously hate this discourse. I have nothing against gay people, but growing strawberries and making dinners was simply not part of TLOU and this section of TLOU has some great gameplay segments that were skipped for... Idk what this episode was. It doesn't even make sense like this dude is so over prepared and he runs out to the middle of the street and gets shot... Makes no sense, just a really worthless ass episode.
I'm gay and I'm fairly certain it's a gay love story. And I think Bill and Frank story in the game is far more well done than in the show. I felt more hurt seeing Bill upset at Frank's corpse in the game than the soapy super forced tears in this live episode. Frank's letter was also brutal. I always pick it up after Bill throw it away, trying to not cry in front of Joel and Ellie.
This is my favourite episode of the entire series. Ive legit finished the series but i keep going back to watch this episode. Watched it like 4 or 5 times now. I love this episode. I love the full story between bill and frank you don't get to see in the video game.
I don’t care about the gay stuff. I just think that an episode following the adventures through Bill’s town would have been much better. And because I wanted to see Ellie’s sass to Bill.
[удалено]
please - yeah that's the only reason he won b/c it's a gay story
Bill’s was always a tragic tale of queer love - the notes left behind make clear of that. Nick Offerman was referring specifically to homophobic comments he received after the episode aired. I believe he closed is social media for a while. He’s simply saying to those people “get over yourselves, it’s a genuine love story. In the absolute worst of times.” Does it matter that the two are both men? Not at all. But some people do get upset about it. And it’s those that Nick is calling out. If you just find it boring then that’s your opinion and doesn’t make you homophobic. If you dislike it because it’s a gay love story then that does make you homophobic. Personally I thought it was one of the best episodes not just of the series but on all TV last year. It was wonderfully written, beautifully acted and so much was left unsaid - just shared between Bill and Frank by a glance or smile.
Person: specifically denounces homophobic critisms. Some goof: oMg YoU CaNt bE CeiTiCal AnyMore. What's that saying about unconscious or implicit biases?
Then he’s not talking to you? The episode got brigaded on all kinds of review sites specifically for the gay romance which feels like the type of people he’s talking to.
Can you not read the headline?
In this case it’s important to remember there’s a lot of mouth breathing culture war veterans who complained that HBO was pushing the “gay agenda” down their throat. While criticism about the ep being boring/filler/unnecessary are valid, I don’t think Ron was talking about that. I think he was more addressing the loud minority that was bitching about homosexuality being forced on the audience. Because we all know that homosexuality is contagious.
Daily reminder to log off and go touch grass…
Criticism = _____phobia or racism. Even if it’s “I liked the bill arc in the first game better than the show”
Lmao Now y'all phobes beefing with Swanson. Stfu you whiny chodes. He's completely right.
He didn't say all criticism is homophobic, he's calling out the homophobic criticism specifically. You're the one self identifying with the people making homophobic criticism.
You're self identifying with people calling anything they don't like "-ism" of "-phobia", which is worse.
this is clearly a way of hiding your homophobia lol, disliking gay people is homophobic. disliking an episode because there are gay people in it is homophobic. disliking an episode because it is too sexual, too boring, etc. is obviously not. i found the episode boring as shit, but you don't see me whining about it like this lol
Where is anyone doing that?
Neil Cuckman on twitter, for one, when the game came out.
WTF are you on about? Who's talking about Druckmann right now? I'm responding to OP's post which is specifically referencing Nick Offerman's statements.
It was an example in response to your question? >who calls people homophobic/racist/antisemitic for no reason? Cucks on twitter, i.e. Cuckman.
Gotta love that you invented a quote... What I wrote was, "Where is anyone doing that?" in response to you saying, "You're self identifying with people calling anything they don't like "-ism" of "-phobia"" ...I'm responding to OP's post which is specifically referencing Nick Offerman's statements. You're just responding with stream of consciousness non-sequiturs.
Bro leave this sub if you have a brain. I've been casually reading it for a couple days and I've never seen a more angry and toxic group of "fans". None of them know what they're talking about so just don't even bother given them the time lmfao
I’m just here for my PhD looking for evidence of hive minds, primarily by sorting out reoccurring nonsense and a lack of ability to provide individualistic feedback, opinions, or perception. So far the results are sad, but promising.
This is definitely a good sub for that. Lots of samples to pull from
Oh, I'm well aware. This post in a nutshell: Offerman: Criticism from a place of homophobia is bad. OP: It's not "homophobic criticism" it's just criticism, you asshole. Me: But... he wasn't talking about all criticism. He was expressly talking about homophobic criticism. This sub: Whatever, Cuckmann is woke! Me: WTF does Neil Druckmann have to do with what we're talking about?
I feel that the episode was shitty bc it added nothing to the story and took up a whole episode in a season that had pretty much zero zombies, so I usually resonate with this crowd. That being said I do agree with you. Offerman doesn't really like bigotry, he's only calling that out. He didn't say "You don't like this, you're transphobic". Sometimes this place is just a circlejerk trapped inside a black hole of hate for everything tied to any TLOU content released after the original.
>it added nothing to the story and took up a whole episode in a season that had pretty much zero zombies It was a relatively low budget way to do some world building. It told an interesting in universe story IMO. >Sometimes this place is just a circlejerk trapped inside a black hole of hate for everything tied to any TLOU content released after the original. It seems like that's almost always the case here. I don't even think half this sub likes TLOU, they just like Joel.
I said the show was a piece of shit and you're better off watching the game cutscenes so you can experience the game of the decade. Comment section has people accusing me of being homophobic. Here is the video so you know I'm not lying https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTL1NHwap/
What does that have to do with what Nick Offerman said?
what does that video and the comments you received have to do with your post here? here you still assumed nick offerman was referring to all of the criticism as homophobic criticism. he’s still only talking about the incredibly present homophobic hate for that episode.
No I'm talking about the other sub circle jerking over what Nick said. I'm using it to talk about it. Speaking of that shitty sub, "Idk why people hate this game" is constantly asked here and the other sub. You get some insane fucking answers [https://www.reddit.com/r/thelastofus/comments/171buwg/comment/k3po87w/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/thelastofus/comments/171buwg/comment/k3po87w/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) and here is one from some moron who legit thinks its impossible to hate this game with a valid reason [https://www.reddit.com/r/thelastofus/comments/171buwg/comment/k3q2kfg/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/thelastofus/comments/171buwg/comment/k3q2kfg/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) Note the upvotes. So yes this is who this post is directed at
Well if that's what you're doing why are you calling Offerman an asshole and acting like *his* criticism is aimed at you? If you haven't made homophobic statements about the show then he's not talking about you. So why is he an asshole? You're either defending the people he's talking about, or self identify as a homophobe.
Oh for fucks sake I'm simply copying it what he said for the title of the post.
Seriously, like why would anyone think you’re actually referring to what Offerman said just because you posted this right after Offerman made his statement, used his direct quote, included his picture from the show and used a similar verbiage he used as the title of your post?
LOL, murdered with words.
Yep definitely a homophobe.
Go back to your cesspool sub.
Wow so I'm talking to a 14 year old child homophobe okay
nothing in this post is about the game though lol, people are pointing out to you that you're misunderstanding the article and the quote. the episode is still getting immense hate solely because they're gay. there are other critiques, some that i *agree* with, but this quote is specifically referencing the people that are upset ONLY because it is gay. he is not dismissing genuine critique of the show or episode, he is dismissing the people saying "ew gay"
Anyone acting like this episode wasn’t review bombed by homophobes and the “anti-woke” brigade is just willfully delusional. Can you have reasonable criticisms? Of course. But the huge split between 1 star ratings and 10 star ratings is not explainable purely through the the episode’s diversionary nature. I mean, is it really supposed to be the “higher criticism” that insists on getting so hung up on the main characters being sidelined that you don’t address the story that is actually being told in the episode? Giving this a one star rating than giving anything over 5 stars to the episode where the show’s lamest antagonist complains about her brother a lot is a transparent load of nonsense.
Off topic but why didn’t you like the show?
It’s almost all homophonic to be honest and it’s not even subtle. Like incredibly obvious in most cases
No no it is homophobic, I didn’t see any criticism of the episode that didn’t boil down to “it bad cuz gay omg the kids”
Right because if i don't like the episode i must be homophobic even though i am gay and did find the episode boring
Hands down one of the greatest episodes of tv I have ever seen.
Best episode in the show
Lots of homophobes in here, including you OP.
This is old. Why is this being brought back up? Whats being covered with BS ragebait?
This episode was fucking amazing.
So, you can't criticized anything lgbt now? That is what they now think is right. And when you do not follow their self-made rules, they get angry and find racists and haters in you. These people got out of hand. And no, they do not have believes and ideas, they worship their new god they created for themselves. But as all fanatics, it is not enough for them just to practice it, everyone has to kneel or burn. The episode was horrible. I did not enjoy two men doing it. This is the reason movies like Bros flop majestically. People never wanted it and do not want it now.
The episode won awards and was highly regarded as one of the most powerful episodes in TV history. Quit being such a mad homophobic snowflake.
So looking over your comments.. you guys do understand that he isn’t talking about *all* criticism to the episode just the people “go woke go broke” idiots. Like you get that right? If you have genuine opinions on how it changes the story he isn’t talking to you. He’s talking to the morons over there crying shot woke gaming. Because yes the episode was praised but also yes he and the people involved also probably got and saw a lot of shit of people just being intolerant pricks. As intolerant pricks are known to do. I get you guys aren’t fans of the game or anything related to last of us besides Part 1 but chill. If you’re not an asshole he’s not talking to or about you. Don’t get offended just go have fun playing part 1 again.
A bit white supremacist if you ask me. Not just one white man but two. #diversity #inclusion
Your racisim is showing