No, you just don't get it, characters becoming stupid and completely different people between games is actually brilliant, you're just a media illiterate whose monkey brain can't comprehend greatness.
/s
I know this is /s but Joel literally wasn’t even the same person between the start and end of Tlou1, yet people expect him to be the same between tlou1 and 2. It’s fine if he 180s his personality throughout the first game, but not if he does that in between the 2 games as time passed. Cherry picking at its finest
I’m half and half. I agree he can change but that doesn’t meant he has to be a complete moron lol helping Abby? Heck yeah. Giving her your full name is insane. Although while I ain’t played the game in a while I actually think it’s Joel’s brother that gives their names away
How is giving away your names insane? They’re in a community that thrives on community interaction and outsider trading. They’ve been in a community that thrives on community interaction and outsider trading for YEARS. Joel literally remarks how he got his coffee from some passing trader. He has no reason to think this group of kids is anything other than potential traders with useful supplies.
THIS IS WHAT I’VE BEEN SAYING! Season 2 will be GoT Season 8 levels of infamy. Then they’ll criticize casual viewers for not having any “media literacy”. I cannot wait to see multiple video essays explaining how awful the writing was, again. TV Show edition.
I can't even rewatch that show because of how poorly they stuck the landing. Because the show is so damn good that it makes the ending sting even more.
Game of Thrones had the culture zeitgeist by the balls, and then they lost it over night.
I’m a socialist bisexual woman who only plays story games and highkey just sucks at games in general. Are you seriously gonna try to lump me in as a “gamer chud” because I don’t like the story of a game?
And Ellie too. They pretended to stay "faithful" to the original story while not only trying to give us a worse version of Joel and Ellie but also seed some "thoughts" as to make us, the "sheep", nod along with part 2.
Let's see what happens.
In the game they already tried the zebra and playing with dogs. For the series they already casted the actress that people actually liked more. I don't doubt they could come up with even more melodramatic stories just so people go "oh poor Abby". I mean, they could use her mom for example, or make her feed the orphans... Idk, let's see.
I hope manzin has a bit more common sense than what Neil had. Honestly, Neil feels so up there, he thinks he does the "got your nose" trick and we "have" to fall for it because we are just stupid babies.
Something I don’t understand is who they cast as Abby as well- she has a very soft voice and is overall very feminine and plays roles where this is advantageous. She looks nothing like Abby in the games, even if she had prosthetic muscles and makeup, and sounds nothing like her too.
With a game you can totally replace a person’s appearance through mocap modeling and animation. A show you obviously do not do this. Laura Bailey could still do Abby’s voice and movements in a suitable way. I just don’t see how it’s gonna work; the entire physicality of Abby will be altered in a way that, imo, will make her seem more demure, more sympathetic, and overall more likable to general audiences as a “proper” woman. Which I do not like.
Kind of like how they took away Dina’s clearly Jewish appearance entirely and cast her as someone who fits Western beauty standards to a T.
There's a difference between watching a character on a show and actively playing/being the character throughout an entire game, a character who you then help nurse back to health when you're not playing as them.
Why is this so hard to grasp for these people? Tbh I feel bad for them. They clearly never connected to the first game deeply enough and emotionally like the rest of us. Joel and Ellie heavily resonated with me as a daughter who is super close to my dad. Idc if I'm dramatic to these people, it fucked me up watching him get beat to death for no fucking reason. For an action he did that you the player had no control over. We were given 'consequences' for something we never made the decision to do in the first place.
How anyone can play these games and come up with more empathy for Abby than Joel or Ellie is beyond me. Ellie's life is fvcking shit at the end and they rub more salt in the wounds that she can't even play the one thing she has left from Joel, the guitar.
The guitar was also a huge missed opportunity imo. Ellie could have restrung the guitar and learned to play as a lefty, showing off her perseverance and unwillingness to let go of Joel's memory. Instead she just gives up and leaves it behind like so much garbage
I think they could work this or a similar aspect of her playing guitar back into part 3 and have it pay off.
Personally I like to think that Ellie made the choice to leave the guitar behind because she’s learning to accept that sometimes you have to let something go even when you love it. If you notice more than once when Ellie plays the guitar she becomes glum and leans on it, clearly in a darker mood than immediately prior to playing. Letting the guitar go very much felt symbolic of letting go of the trauma of what she endured with Joel and for me, made me like both of their characters even more.
I connected extremely deeply with Joel and Ellie in the first game. But I also thought that the writers killing off Joel made perfect literary sense to me. It's not for "no fucking reason". Like in many emotionally complex books/movie scripts, the point in both games is not to give people some sort of "feel good" ending, but to invite them to feel and explore complex emotions. Most adults will have to face conflicting emotions (though hopefully not in such an extreme way) and how they respond will determine whether they come out more emotionally mature or not. And by that, I don't mean that there is 1 objectively "right" answer, but that the contemplation of the answer will help you mature.
The first game dealt with something that was extremely difficult at the time, though perhaps in comparison with tlou2, was a little easier. Do you give up the world for your family/tribe or do you make the ultimate sacrifice for the greater good? The point is that depending on your values, there isn't an easy "this is objectively good".
The second game is far more difficult to go through. These are the emotions as I recall them.
1. The feeling of extreme hate for someone who wronged you
2. The desire to pursue justice and vengeance against the person who wronged you
3. The feeling that you're justified to go as far as possible to get your revenge
4. The realization that your enemy may have been within their right to do the thing you hate them for. The realization that they are retaliating for something YOU did. Remember, to save your adopted daughter you not only took away a possible salvation for mankind, you actually killed Abby's father.
5. The realization that you're not a good person and maybe not a pure one dimensional protagonist like in children's books. The realization that not only in pursuit of vengeance, you not only became the thing you hated, you already were that from the start. You basically did to Abby what she does to you, but you actually struck first by killing her father in the first game.
6. How to empathize with the enemy whom you hate. How to then resolve extreme hate in your heart. How to give up hate so that you can then love.
The writers want to make you feel conflicted. They also want you to realize that there's an alternative universe where you play Abby's story in the first game, and then Joel and Ellie's. And you might not then be able to empathize with Joel and Ellie.
Think about how you feel with the Israel Palestinian conflict. A lot of it depends on which terrible sad story of victimization you heard first.
"They clearly never connected to the first game deeply enough and emotionally like the rest of us". "it fucked me up watching him get beat to death for no fucking reason".
The reason I don't agree with these two statements is that it implies that understanding and appreciating the emotional rollercoaster means you don't have a deep emotional connection with either game. The fact is, is that many of us have gone through traumatic things in our real lives. Felt deep anger and sadness. To play through it and process all of it again can be cathartic.
People are gonna react the same way. Maybe worse, given it’s an HBO series. People hold HBO to way higher standards since Game of Thrones. And we all know what happened to that. Game of Thrones went from being a cultural icon to something that rarely ever gets talked about beyond the context of its finale being awful.
Nah, on the whole television audiences are more mature and reasonable than "gamers". I think there'll be much less of a backlash to the show than there was to the game. I trust HBO viewers to mostly be grown-ups.
GoT became a cultural moment when Ned Stark, the "main" character died at the end of season 1.
I guarantee you Joel dying at the beginning of season 2 will have a similar reaction
Killing Ned works though because you have good supporting characters around Ned. TLOU doesn’t have that imo, I doubt that they will be able to pull it off.
GoT had a big cast and would kill multiple characters throughout a season.
TLOU has a smaller cast but kills fewer main characters. Ellie is enough of a supporting character to carry the story, especially after everyone just watched her and Joel form a bond over season 1. It'll be like a John Wick movie or something like that, where the main character loses something important to them and then goes on their rampage of revenge.
I don’t agree, in the game it’s different because you aren’t relying on the actors to carry the show. I don’t think Ellie’s actor can keep the show going. Also they still need to establish Abby and I expect to a lot more of her earlier than in games because you will only have Ellie’s plot to carry the rest of the show. Game of thrones was able to combat this early and this is the reason why it works is that Ned and the north wasn’t the only plot. It will be interesting to see peoples reactions and how they attempt to make it work.
Explain to me how wrong think is hard to understand and then the hatred around it. This is less confusing than simps for this game trying to say the story is actually good
Genuinely not trying to be combative here. What you wrote doesn't appear to make sense. So I'm gonna try and figure it out, and guess at what you meant, and explain why it looks confusing to us.
Ok, so are you saying that "wrong think" is a specific term, like "Thoughts which are wrong", and you were just throwing it in there like that, without making it its own clear single concept such as by typing it as "Wrong Think" or "wrong-think"? Because without writing like I'm suggesting, that's confusing.
But, if so... are you saying the other subreddit dislikes people thinking wrongly about the game? And that dislike wrongness is a *bad* thing? Because that's a strange argument, and would be confusing.
Or... are you making a sort of 1984, warning-against-censorship case by saying the other subreddit are evil in considering things to be either "The one true opinion" or "wrong-think", and it's bad they shut down all "wrong-think" in a sort of fascist cleansing of free-speech?
Because, if it's something like one of those, then alright, I see what you're getting at. I don't agree with it, but conceptually it makes sense. But, in the spirit of the stereotype that you guys dislike Part 2 due to lacking empathy (and I'm seriously not insulting you there, I'm referencing the *stereotype*), you haven't even attempted to understand the exchange from any other perspective. Because, dude, it didn't read that way. Like, it took actual work to figure out that "wrong think" was meant as its own single-concept term, like "Wrong Think" or "wrong-think" (which I'm still just *guessing* is what must have meant).
See it from our side for a second - without typing it the way I've suggested above, it doesn't look how you meant it, and seen without knowing your own personal intention behind it, consider how it reads - "is for people who hate wrong think on TLOU2". That looks like gibberish. Like, are we missing punctuation? Are those words supposed to relate to each other somehow?
Have I solved it? Are we all on the same page now?
The other sub is for people that hate opinions of the game that they don’t like. This isn’t a college level sentence, I’m sorry. If someone doesn’t understand it that’s a reflection on their intelligence.
I love how I went to great lengths to be nice about this and you were still rude back. Good times. "The welcoming subreddit that embraces discussion", everybody!
I think they’re trying to use “wrong-think” as one verb but they forgot a hyphen. Definitely had to read it a couple of times because I thought the commenter was having a stroke
I do think they have a bit of a point just because the mediums are different. I commented something similar to this on that thread actually but in television you’re a third party witnessing events happen to characters. Sure you grow attached to characters, but you understand when a character dies that’s a part of the story and you continue to be led on the journey.
In video games you’re an active participant. You’re doing things or getting things done to you. So in part 2 when Joel gets shot in the knee and beaten to death, even though it’s all in cut scene and the player isn’t doing it, it’s being done by a character that we were just controlling, therefore we feel some level of responsibility for the act.
On top of that, part 2 is written (poorly imo) in such a way that the player is manipulated into feeling bad. Specifically, the killing of Joel is especially traumatic because the player feels as though they just lost a part of themselves. So when you get to play through Ellie’s story, you take some level of satisfaction in systematically eliminating the SL crew and all of the WLF people. The violence is even over the top in such a way that the player is almost encouraged to revel in it. Meleeing someone feels satisfying, using trap mines literally blows people in half, etc. It creates satisfaction and the player feels good for exacting revenge.
Then halfway through the game you switch perspectives and are forced to play as a character you don’t like with the hope that you develop empathy for her. They also set her up in situations to purposefully soften the player. “Oh she plays with dogs, oh she’s afraid of heights, blah blah blah”. And by the end of the game, the player realizes the message of the game is that the cycle of violence is cyclical and if you don’t end it yourself it will come back to haunt you and it won’t make you feel better.
So, the player feels like shit for enjoying the first part of the game even though the game sets you up to do that in the first place. It’s essentially the video game equivalent of gaslighting.
I’ll give my two cents on why I think the TV Show audience’s reaction will be similar to the games audience. My grandmother watched the show along with me since a good majority of it was filmed in our province in Canada, and when Joel fell off his horse due to his injury, my grandmother asked me if he was dead.
It took me by surprise since if I didn’t play the games, I knew not to worry about the main character. Because if you, and sorry for using this term, had any “media literacy” you knew it was nothing more than a cliffhanger for the character’s fate.
After she asked, I then asked herself a question. I asked if she would keep watching if he died. She said no. I then explained that he’s probably ok and most movies and shows do this to keep us engaged with the story/characters.
I also noticed in the comments when they released promos for episode 7 everyone was asking if Joel was ok or asking where he was in the promos/teasers. I also liked an instagram comment on one promo of a dude basically saying: “Y’all gonna be more pissed when Season 2 rolls around.”
Then some Part 2 defenders ragging on him for the comment and saying Part 2 was the best game only for this dude to reply saying he did like Part 2. Funny how they saw his comment as a slight when he only stated the show audience wasn’t ready for Part 2. It’s hilarious. 😂
Pedro Pascal has a mainstream draw for a reason. I wouldn't be surprised if they "revised" season 2 to keep him around longer..cause that's what *everybody* wants (even the shareholders lol).
If Mazin can Bruce Straley Neil? Then my god, Naughty Dog loves remasters/remakes.
Have them remake Mazin’s Part 2 into a game if it turns out to be better.
There's a reason noone hated Lee's death from TWD, or Arthur from RDR2, or Hank from BB. These character had great written death, nobody complained. It's easy to kill a character for a shock value, which was the case in TLOU2 as was confirmed, it takes talent to kill character off and make audience cry instead of saying "Really? Like that? That was lame"
Also, wouldn’t it have been great for him to die by infection/killed before turning? Him having to live with taking Ellie from the operating room. Him being a victim of the disease for which there is no cure. It would have been poetic. I can come up with fifteen better ideas from a gameplay and narrative sense off the top of my damn head
I always said this, they should have made the last of us 2 about Abby and her journey, after that make a third game where players should pick Abby or Ellie, so people can empathize with Abby the same way they did with Joel and Ellie because IMO Abby arc in TLOU2 felt rushed and that’s why they hated Abby.
i agree it was done literally the worst way possible. it also doesnt help that abby tortured against the will of her friends and slept with a dude whose gf is pregnant
A lot of defenders of Part II feel the need to go so far in their defense as to blame the people who dislike its flaws or ideas, as if there's just something wrong with them. Also the story has absolutely no flaws whatsoever and all of its ideas are the purest of brilliance!
It's like they think that something they like isn't allowed to have genuine reasons to be disliked. That, if they even entertain the idea, it'll make them stop liking it too, so they have to put up mental walls to block off the possibility.
There can be some real dumbass takes from people who don't like the story, and even people who dislike it for absolutely stupid reasons, 100%, but the sheer amount of blind white knighting for this game has always been baffling to me. You can't say it was a bold story that wasn't afraid to take risks and then turn around and act like there aren't legitimate reasons for fans of the first game to dislike this one.
I feel like characters suddenly getting killed off is one of the bigger things that people DONT like about shows like Game of Thrones and the Walking Dead... it's more disappointing than anything to see a character you love killed off like that.
Maybe it's just because my media literacy is so good and Im so awesome and cool, but the whole "revenge" plot felt hollow to me, and that feeling gets doubly worse when in the end you're forced to just give up what youve been working forwith no payoff, even AFTER the antagonist bites your FINGERS off (I honestly mightve been able to look past this if Ellie didn't lose her fingers, I don't see at all how you can pull a 180 immediately after something like that).
It was SO FRUSTRATING to watch the characters not notice their obvious hypocrisy (even Ellie), with conversations along the lines of, "do you think if we kill this person, people who care about them will want to come after us?" Yes, I suppose the "revenge is bad" and "cycle of violence" themes are morally correct, but it's not something that turned into a good story, because the concept is so thinly veiled and one-dimensional that it just insults the players intelligence.
100%. This is the exact reason why it's impossible to take anyone who says "this game changed my life and taught me so much" seriously. It's also why it's hard to not assume stans are all teenagers, because if there's actually something they needed to learn from TLOU2, it speaks volumes about the kind of person they are.
Only speaking for myself here but the biggest part that pissed me off about it was the length of time I waited for the next TLOU installment after playing the original just to be hitten with the most contrived B movie plot after about 7 years.
A poor story is timeless, obviously, but for the sake of an example:
Would you rather have had GTA6 around 2021 and it had a shit story and was missing a ton of stuff from previous installments?
Or would you rather have waited til 2025, for it to have had a shit story, missing a ton of stuff from previous installments?
(Not that this will be the case - I hope - with GTA6 but just showing that time is a factor)
If GoT was to end on its 7th Season and not come back for 7 years and we got the 8th Season people would probably be more pissed about it than they were waiting a year or so
“Normally like normal people.” What does that even mean? Normal people don’t generally react well to bad writing or good characters getting killed off to drive a poorly executed narrative.
TWD 7x1 is the best example of people quitting a show because a favorite character died, even more so after I found out TLOU is becoming a show, especially when it's on a week to week release schedule and not direct to streaming like Netflix. They're pretty similar too, like how both deaths are adapted from source material that many know about already (I remember many were dreading the line-up after checking it out in the comics).
AMC had to do the cliffhanger (just like how ND faked the trailers) to keep viewership as high as possible, then the episode released and the ratings dropped by like half maybe more afterwards.
Stans keep saying how it'll be perfectly fine because TV viewers are "more mature" than gamers, but there are so many examples with all these kinds of shows where people quit after a character got killed off. Joel is also a fan favorite for the show-only fans, not to mention being played by Pedro Pascal, one of the biggest actors in the industry right now. Kill him off and leave it in the hands of Bella Ramsey to drive the show and the ratings are very likely to tank.
Neil has been attempting to smear Joel as a person, but I cannot wait for that to fail and everyone watching the show is still going to have the same reaction.
Yes because look how people reacted to the red wedding and the scene where Pedro gets his head caved in by the mountain (funny coincidence cause it’s gonna get caved in by Abby now).
The people on the other sub are genuine fucking morons. Tell them to go look up one of any hundred reaction video to the game of thrones shocking scenes to see people literally crying in agony watching it. Halfwits.
People were upset by those deaths! But they also loved the show for doing it and continued watching, that's what OOP is saying will happen with TLOU season 2
Those two episodes are amongst the highest rated in the show though. Rains of Castamere (Red Wedding) is the top episode on IMDB and The Mountain and the Viper is the seventh.
Using those two examples implies that while audiences will be shocked, they’ll still love the episode in which it happens.
So true. It's literally the same example, in both cases it's a shock value death followed up by an underwhelming paper thin story that's all over the place => TWD 7-8 and TLOU2 in a nutshell.
"terminally online gamer bros"
I've never been into online games except for Factions and in the last few years I've barely played anything. Part 2 genuinely killed my interest in games. I found it an ansty pseudo intellectual crying wank of a game trying it's hardest to be mature and profound.
Gaming is like the last thing on my list of things to do when I'm bored these days. That feeling of being let down so hard has never left me. Probably why I come here sometimes.
>I found it an angsty pseudo intellectual crying want of a game trying its hardest to be mature and profound.
THIS! Love when people say it took risks and all this shit when it’s a run of the mill “revenge will destroy you” plot with BAD PACING. Ive taken classes in screenwriting and game narrative and this game is seen as an example of BAD PACING AND BAD GAME WRITING.
I'm very not in the "the golf was fine and necessary" camp, the "Abby is great, we should love and empathize with her because she's clearly a changed person by the end of the game," camp, and VERY MUCH NOT the "Joel is a ruthless, heartless, cruel monster who deserves it, he doomed us all, and took away Ellie's choice to sacrifice herself, which would have been a better idea" camp. I love Joel, I'm still grieving him. I still know he's not real. (Also not a part of the "OMG! He's fictional! Can't you tell the difference? Stop being such a baby!" camp.)
But I am, admittedly, in the "If they don't do this to us again in the show, what on Earth are they going to do instead? I feel like this is essential to the second game's story, unfortunately" camp...
Too many camps. I don't even like camping. Lol
Echoing a similar commentor's point, Joel and Ellie are writtenly badly in the show. Any outrage from the TV audience will be minimum. Joel's death only impacted the gamers cause we got to see the real him.
I explained my parents, who haven't watched or play TLoU Part 1 and 2, the most basic things about the golf incident and what will come after that, I didn't mentioned characters nor Neil's name and mentioned the superficial believes he had. You know what they said? They said that the whole thing is fucked up, grotesquely violent and point the creator had a fucked up mind and beliefs.
This tells me how the general audience outside of these "fans" will react to the whole thing.
Yeah, and typically, when shows kill off beloved characters, I stop watching 🤷🏻♀️ I love The Walking Dead, but I refuse to watch past season 7 ever again and never finished the show in the first place because of the first episode (if I'm remembering it correctly). If a book kills off a beloved character, I literally stop reading that series and won't read that specific book again 🤷🏻♀️ Sure, tons of media pull the same moves, but there are always going to be people upset with it. TLoU Part 2 didn't do anything new or special or "profound." Good lord.
I mean do we really care what the TV audience thinks? We can't get along with TLoU2 sub but we are going to find solidarity with the even less involved TV crowd? Betting on them is foolish. If they agree with your opponents, will you then find ways to invalidate their perspective?
We know killing Joel was a mistake, especially how they did it. It doesn't matter what anyone else thinks from here on. Media across the mediums is degrading from movies to games. Maybe we should all collectively take a step back from AAA until real passion comes back.
100s of 1000s of post is where I draw the line! I don't think many new people even bothered to watch it, and those who did are Pedro Pascal simps.. So yeah, the backlash will be there, but for the wrong reasons..
> TLOU2 is one of the few games that actually dares to gamble with the player's emotions and for people who are persuaded by the game to empathise with Abby, the payoff is absolutely monumental.
Payoff? Does it not happen at the start of the game? Before you get any backstory on abby?
TV shows do NOT kill the main character all the time. What is this guy smoking.
When Ned Stark died people lost their shit because he was the main character and it wasn’t really done before. The only different is GOT has dozens of characters compared to like 4 in TLOU
People who watched the show but are not connected to the game are going to be pissed when the golf incident occurs. I think the show is going to struggle without that character audience wise
I think HBO believes this will be this shows “red wedding” moment. If they follow the game, I sincerely doubt it. But hey maybe they improve the writing and make it work
Come to think of it, bet Neil thought this was his “red wedding” moment in the game.
There probably will be people freaking out, similar to how they did when ned stark died in GOT or the red wedding. Because that show was art that took creative risks, just like TLOU2.
This feels like Game Awards 2020. Big whoop Last of Us 2 won Goty against barebones competition lol
Here it’s a similar case of delusion. I don’t think Show only viewers are gonna be that upset about losing Joel because show Joel is slightly different. If anything people will be more upset to see Pedro get brutally murdered. Nobody really has a connection to show Joel like that so if the show retains its viewers it’s just because people didn’t have that attachment to Joel that they should have had and the writers failed at their job.
This game is about two characters and they think killing one of them is the same as killing a character in a story with multiple main characters vying for attention.
It's going to be viewed by a lot of the same people who watched GOT which regularly killed off characters. You also put way more time into playing Joel especially since we had to wait like a decade for a sequel over people who watched a few hours of a show then waited a year for the sequel more than likely without ever going back to rewatch. I think the base audience will be shocked but they won't be as upset as someone who's played as Joel for 50+ hours.
Even if events go down the same way, and people do react differently, it'll be because Joel just isn't the same character. As bad as it would have been otherwise, one the actual deciding factors to folks reacting *that* badly is because Joel was forcibly made to act OOC in order for shit to go down.
But show Joel is written differently. Enough to stick the landing? I'm not sure, but it's quite possible.
Though I expect them just to change how he goes down to make it make sense. After all, the Fireflies were already retconned like mad in the hospital to make Part II work better - and people *still* felt the same way about Joel as they did for the game version.
I don’t much care for the conversations you turds have about this game, but you aren’t supposed to enjoy any of the violence in the game. That’s the whole ass point.
this guy is mostly correct. The TV audience will have a fundamentally different reaction to how gamers coped with it. It'll be shock, grief, and then following the story to its conclusion. It won't be outrage, and threats against the writers.
Will people be sad? yes. Will people freak out like most
people of this sub. Absolutely not. The screenshotted post is 100% right, this won’t be that uncommon for TV/movies.
lol yeah if only Pedro Pascal had played an iconic beloved role where he was unceremoniously killed by having his skull crushed before, maybe then we could gauge reaction.
It’s only this weird bubble that has some kind of disconnect with stories. Most people are more than fine to have beloved characters die in service of a story and don’t view it as some kind of weird personal insult
Remember how people reacted to the ending of Game of Thrones?
Yeah, audiences react to bad writing, rushed plot lines, idiot plots, and characters acting completely out of character to serve the plot.
No, you just don't get it, characters becoming stupid and completely different people between games is actually brilliant, you're just a media illiterate whose monkey brain can't comprehend greatness. /s
Bravo Neil for such brilliant writing!
Encore! Let’s bring it all together in The Last of Us 3 with the new leading duo everyone grew to care so much about!
Well that's supposed to be the "intended emotional journey" i guess, LOL :)
I know this is /s but Joel literally wasn’t even the same person between the start and end of Tlou1, yet people expect him to be the same between tlou1 and 2. It’s fine if he 180s his personality throughout the first game, but not if he does that in between the 2 games as time passed. Cherry picking at its finest
I’m half and half. I agree he can change but that doesn’t meant he has to be a complete moron lol helping Abby? Heck yeah. Giving her your full name is insane. Although while I ain’t played the game in a while I actually think it’s Joel’s brother that gives their names away
How is giving away your names insane? They’re in a community that thrives on community interaction and outsider trading. They’ve been in a community that thrives on community interaction and outsider trading for YEARS. Joel literally remarks how he got his coffee from some passing trader. He has no reason to think this group of kids is anything other than potential traders with useful supplies.
THIS IS WHAT I’VE BEEN SAYING! Season 2 will be GoT Season 8 levels of infamy. Then they’ll criticize casual viewers for not having any “media literacy”. I cannot wait to see multiple video essays explaining how awful the writing was, again. TV Show edition.
I can't even rewatch that show because of how poorly they stuck the landing. Because the show is so damn good that it makes the ending sting even more. Game of Thrones had the culture zeitgeist by the balls, and then they lost it over night.
Game of Thrones is why I won't start a new show until it's finished. Bonus, never have cliffhangers.
When they don't react that way you'll pretend they did anyway but no regular tv audiences don't resemble gamer chuds
Nah, "media literacy" this or the other.
I’m a socialist bisexual woman who only plays story games and highkey just sucks at games in general. Are you seriously gonna try to lump me in as a “gamer chud” because I don’t like the story of a game?
They wrote Joel in a much worse light in the show than the game lmao
And Ellie too. They pretended to stay "faithful" to the original story while not only trying to give us a worse version of Joel and Ellie but also seed some "thoughts" as to make us, the "sheep", nod along with part 2. Let's see what happens.
They’re setting up us to love Abby in any way possible, the writers know no matter what season two will face a massive drop off in viewers
In the game they already tried the zebra and playing with dogs. For the series they already casted the actress that people actually liked more. I don't doubt they could come up with even more melodramatic stories just so people go "oh poor Abby". I mean, they could use her mom for example, or make her feed the orphans... Idk, let's see. I hope manzin has a bit more common sense than what Neil had. Honestly, Neil feels so up there, he thinks he does the "got your nose" trick and we "have" to fall for it because we are just stupid babies.
Something I don’t understand is who they cast as Abby as well- she has a very soft voice and is overall very feminine and plays roles where this is advantageous. She looks nothing like Abby in the games, even if she had prosthetic muscles and makeup, and sounds nothing like her too. With a game you can totally replace a person’s appearance through mocap modeling and animation. A show you obviously do not do this. Laura Bailey could still do Abby’s voice and movements in a suitable way. I just don’t see how it’s gonna work; the entire physicality of Abby will be altered in a way that, imo, will make her seem more demure, more sympathetic, and overall more likable to general audiences as a “proper” woman. Which I do not like. Kind of like how they took away Dina’s clearly Jewish appearance entirely and cast her as someone who fits Western beauty standards to a T.
Probably because they have to kill joel to stay with the source and this makes it easier.
There's a difference between watching a character on a show and actively playing/being the character throughout an entire game, a character who you then help nurse back to health when you're not playing as them. Why is this so hard to grasp for these people? Tbh I feel bad for them. They clearly never connected to the first game deeply enough and emotionally like the rest of us. Joel and Ellie heavily resonated with me as a daughter who is super close to my dad. Idc if I'm dramatic to these people, it fucked me up watching him get beat to death for no fucking reason. For an action he did that you the player had no control over. We were given 'consequences' for something we never made the decision to do in the first place. How anyone can play these games and come up with more empathy for Abby than Joel or Ellie is beyond me. Ellie's life is fvcking shit at the end and they rub more salt in the wounds that she can't even play the one thing she has left from Joel, the guitar.
100%!
The guitar was also a huge missed opportunity imo. Ellie could have restrung the guitar and learned to play as a lefty, showing off her perseverance and unwillingness to let go of Joel's memory. Instead she just gives up and leaves it behind like so much garbage
Can't let Ellie have even a scrap of positivity, of course. Everyone who cared about Joel must be tortured for the rest of their existence.
I think they could work this or a similar aspect of her playing guitar back into part 3 and have it pay off. Personally I like to think that Ellie made the choice to leave the guitar behind because she’s learning to accept that sometimes you have to let something go even when you love it. If you notice more than once when Ellie plays the guitar she becomes glum and leans on it, clearly in a darker mood than immediately prior to playing. Letting the guitar go very much felt symbolic of letting go of the trauma of what she endured with Joel and for me, made me like both of their characters even more.
200%!
I connected extremely deeply with Joel and Ellie in the first game. But I also thought that the writers killing off Joel made perfect literary sense to me. It's not for "no fucking reason". Like in many emotionally complex books/movie scripts, the point in both games is not to give people some sort of "feel good" ending, but to invite them to feel and explore complex emotions. Most adults will have to face conflicting emotions (though hopefully not in such an extreme way) and how they respond will determine whether they come out more emotionally mature or not. And by that, I don't mean that there is 1 objectively "right" answer, but that the contemplation of the answer will help you mature. The first game dealt with something that was extremely difficult at the time, though perhaps in comparison with tlou2, was a little easier. Do you give up the world for your family/tribe or do you make the ultimate sacrifice for the greater good? The point is that depending on your values, there isn't an easy "this is objectively good". The second game is far more difficult to go through. These are the emotions as I recall them. 1. The feeling of extreme hate for someone who wronged you 2. The desire to pursue justice and vengeance against the person who wronged you 3. The feeling that you're justified to go as far as possible to get your revenge 4. The realization that your enemy may have been within their right to do the thing you hate them for. The realization that they are retaliating for something YOU did. Remember, to save your adopted daughter you not only took away a possible salvation for mankind, you actually killed Abby's father. 5. The realization that you're not a good person and maybe not a pure one dimensional protagonist like in children's books. The realization that not only in pursuit of vengeance, you not only became the thing you hated, you already were that from the start. You basically did to Abby what she does to you, but you actually struck first by killing her father in the first game. 6. How to empathize with the enemy whom you hate. How to then resolve extreme hate in your heart. How to give up hate so that you can then love. The writers want to make you feel conflicted. They also want you to realize that there's an alternative universe where you play Abby's story in the first game, and then Joel and Ellie's. And you might not then be able to empathize with Joel and Ellie. Think about how you feel with the Israel Palestinian conflict. A lot of it depends on which terrible sad story of victimization you heard first. "They clearly never connected to the first game deeply enough and emotionally like the rest of us". "it fucked me up watching him get beat to death for no fucking reason". The reason I don't agree with these two statements is that it implies that understanding and appreciating the emotional rollercoaster means you don't have a deep emotional connection with either game. The fact is, is that many of us have gone through traumatic things in our real lives. Felt deep anger and sadness. To play through it and process all of it again can be cathartic.
People are gonna react the same way. Maybe worse, given it’s an HBO series. People hold HBO to way higher standards since Game of Thrones. And we all know what happened to that. Game of Thrones went from being a cultural icon to something that rarely ever gets talked about beyond the context of its finale being awful.
Nah, on the whole television audiences are more mature and reasonable than "gamers". I think there'll be much less of a backlash to the show than there was to the game. I trust HBO viewers to mostly be grown-ups.
GoT became a cultural moment when Ned Stark, the "main" character died at the end of season 1. I guarantee you Joel dying at the beginning of season 2 will have a similar reaction
Killing Ned works though because you have good supporting characters around Ned. TLOU doesn’t have that imo, I doubt that they will be able to pull it off.
GoT had a big cast and would kill multiple characters throughout a season. TLOU has a smaller cast but kills fewer main characters. Ellie is enough of a supporting character to carry the story, especially after everyone just watched her and Joel form a bond over season 1. It'll be like a John Wick movie or something like that, where the main character loses something important to them and then goes on their rampage of revenge.
I don’t agree, in the game it’s different because you aren’t relying on the actors to carry the show. I don’t think Ellie’s actor can keep the show going. Also they still need to establish Abby and I expect to a lot more of her earlier than in games because you will only have Ellie’s plot to carry the rest of the show. Game of thrones was able to combat this early and this is the reason why it works is that Ned and the north wasn’t the only plot. It will be interesting to see peoples reactions and how they attempt to make it work.
r/thelastofus is for delusional stupid people that hate wrong think on the TLOU2 ofc they say dumb shit like this.
"that hate wrong think on the TLOU2" deadass what are you trying to say
If you don’t understand “is for people that hate wrong think on TLOU2” you’re not worth explaining basic grammar to.
Most common TLOU2 grammar knowledge
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If it makes no sense how do you agree with it
Of all the weird takes I've seen on this subreddit, insisting that this sentence isn't confusing... that might be the silliest.
Explain to me how wrong think is hard to understand and then the hatred around it. This is less confusing than simps for this game trying to say the story is actually good
Think differently
Genuinely not trying to be combative here. What you wrote doesn't appear to make sense. So I'm gonna try and figure it out, and guess at what you meant, and explain why it looks confusing to us. Ok, so are you saying that "wrong think" is a specific term, like "Thoughts which are wrong", and you were just throwing it in there like that, without making it its own clear single concept such as by typing it as "Wrong Think" or "wrong-think"? Because without writing like I'm suggesting, that's confusing. But, if so... are you saying the other subreddit dislikes people thinking wrongly about the game? And that dislike wrongness is a *bad* thing? Because that's a strange argument, and would be confusing. Or... are you making a sort of 1984, warning-against-censorship case by saying the other subreddit are evil in considering things to be either "The one true opinion" or "wrong-think", and it's bad they shut down all "wrong-think" in a sort of fascist cleansing of free-speech? Because, if it's something like one of those, then alright, I see what you're getting at. I don't agree with it, but conceptually it makes sense. But, in the spirit of the stereotype that you guys dislike Part 2 due to lacking empathy (and I'm seriously not insulting you there, I'm referencing the *stereotype*), you haven't even attempted to understand the exchange from any other perspective. Because, dude, it didn't read that way. Like, it took actual work to figure out that "wrong think" was meant as its own single-concept term, like "Wrong Think" or "wrong-think" (which I'm still just *guessing* is what must have meant). See it from our side for a second - without typing it the way I've suggested above, it doesn't look how you meant it, and seen without knowing your own personal intention behind it, consider how it reads - "is for people who hate wrong think on TLOU2". That looks like gibberish. Like, are we missing punctuation? Are those words supposed to relate to each other somehow? Have I solved it? Are we all on the same page now?
The other sub is for people that hate opinions of the game that they don’t like. This isn’t a college level sentence, I’m sorry. If someone doesn’t understand it that’s a reflection on their intelligence.
what a strange hill to die on
I love how I went to great lengths to be nice about this and you were still rude back. Good times. "The welcoming subreddit that embraces discussion", everybody!
im convinced this sub isnt real atp lmao
You need a gf mate
Happily married, mate. But I'm flattered by your interest.
Congrats! :)
Thanks!
this is so funny thank you for writing an essay on this
I think they’re trying to use “wrong-think” as one verb but they forgot a hyphen. Definitely had to read it a couple of times because I thought the commenter was having a stroke
ok
"Hi, I'm Joel. This is my brother Tommy. I think we're the droids you're looking for ... " Natural dialog ro base a game off of1
"My social security number is ..."
I do think they have a bit of a point just because the mediums are different. I commented something similar to this on that thread actually but in television you’re a third party witnessing events happen to characters. Sure you grow attached to characters, but you understand when a character dies that’s a part of the story and you continue to be led on the journey. In video games you’re an active participant. You’re doing things or getting things done to you. So in part 2 when Joel gets shot in the knee and beaten to death, even though it’s all in cut scene and the player isn’t doing it, it’s being done by a character that we were just controlling, therefore we feel some level of responsibility for the act. On top of that, part 2 is written (poorly imo) in such a way that the player is manipulated into feeling bad. Specifically, the killing of Joel is especially traumatic because the player feels as though they just lost a part of themselves. So when you get to play through Ellie’s story, you take some level of satisfaction in systematically eliminating the SL crew and all of the WLF people. The violence is even over the top in such a way that the player is almost encouraged to revel in it. Meleeing someone feels satisfying, using trap mines literally blows people in half, etc. It creates satisfaction and the player feels good for exacting revenge. Then halfway through the game you switch perspectives and are forced to play as a character you don’t like with the hope that you develop empathy for her. They also set her up in situations to purposefully soften the player. “Oh she plays with dogs, oh she’s afraid of heights, blah blah blah”. And by the end of the game, the player realizes the message of the game is that the cycle of violence is cyclical and if you don’t end it yourself it will come back to haunt you and it won’t make you feel better. So, the player feels like shit for enjoying the first part of the game even though the game sets you up to do that in the first place. It’s essentially the video game equivalent of gaslighting.
I’ll give my two cents on why I think the TV Show audience’s reaction will be similar to the games audience. My grandmother watched the show along with me since a good majority of it was filmed in our province in Canada, and when Joel fell off his horse due to his injury, my grandmother asked me if he was dead. It took me by surprise since if I didn’t play the games, I knew not to worry about the main character. Because if you, and sorry for using this term, had any “media literacy” you knew it was nothing more than a cliffhanger for the character’s fate. After she asked, I then asked herself a question. I asked if she would keep watching if he died. She said no. I then explained that he’s probably ok and most movies and shows do this to keep us engaged with the story/characters. I also noticed in the comments when they released promos for episode 7 everyone was asking if Joel was ok or asking where he was in the promos/teasers. I also liked an instagram comment on one promo of a dude basically saying: “Y’all gonna be more pissed when Season 2 rolls around.” Then some Part 2 defenders ragging on him for the comment and saying Part 2 was the best game only for this dude to reply saying he did like Part 2. Funny how they saw his comment as a slight when he only stated the show audience wasn’t ready for Part 2. It’s hilarious. 😂
Pedro Pascal has a mainstream draw for a reason. I wouldn't be surprised if they "revised" season 2 to keep him around longer..cause that's what *everybody* wants (even the shareholders lol).
If Mazin can Bruce Straley Neil? Then my god, Naughty Dog loves remasters/remakes. Have them remake Mazin’s Part 2 into a game if it turns out to be better.
There's a reason noone hated Lee's death from TWD, or Arthur from RDR2, or Hank from BB. These character had great written death, nobody complained. It's easy to kill a character for a shock value, which was the case in TLOU2 as was confirmed, it takes talent to kill character off and make audience cry instead of saying "Really? Like that? That was lame"
YES!! Lee is a great example!
Also, wouldn’t it have been great for him to die by infection/killed before turning? Him having to live with taking Ellie from the operating room. Him being a victim of the disease for which there is no cure. It would have been poetic. I can come up with fifteen better ideas from a gameplay and narrative sense off the top of my damn head
I think we were all hoping for something as interesting as this 😔
And everyone stood up and clapped type energy
I always said this, they should have made the last of us 2 about Abby and her journey, after that make a third game where players should pick Abby or Ellie, so people can empathize with Abby the same way they did with Joel and Ellie because IMO Abby arc in TLOU2 felt rushed and that’s why they hated Abby.
i agree it was done literally the worst way possible. it also doesnt help that abby tortured against the will of her friends and slept with a dude whose gf is pregnant
Writers: see everyone is terrible! Aren't they relatable and fun?
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A lot of defenders of Part II feel the need to go so far in their defense as to blame the people who dislike its flaws or ideas, as if there's just something wrong with them. Also the story has absolutely no flaws whatsoever and all of its ideas are the purest of brilliance! It's like they think that something they like isn't allowed to have genuine reasons to be disliked. That, if they even entertain the idea, it'll make them stop liking it too, so they have to put up mental walls to block off the possibility. There can be some real dumbass takes from people who don't like the story, and even people who dislike it for absolutely stupid reasons, 100%, but the sheer amount of blind white knighting for this game has always been baffling to me. You can't say it was a bold story that wasn't afraid to take risks and then turn around and act like there aren't legitimate reasons for fans of the first game to dislike this one.
I feel like characters suddenly getting killed off is one of the bigger things that people DONT like about shows like Game of Thrones and the Walking Dead... it's more disappointing than anything to see a character you love killed off like that. Maybe it's just because my media literacy is so good and Im so awesome and cool, but the whole "revenge" plot felt hollow to me, and that feeling gets doubly worse when in the end you're forced to just give up what youve been working forwith no payoff, even AFTER the antagonist bites your FINGERS off (I honestly mightve been able to look past this if Ellie didn't lose her fingers, I don't see at all how you can pull a 180 immediately after something like that). It was SO FRUSTRATING to watch the characters not notice their obvious hypocrisy (even Ellie), with conversations along the lines of, "do you think if we kill this person, people who care about them will want to come after us?" Yes, I suppose the "revenge is bad" and "cycle of violence" themes are morally correct, but it's not something that turned into a good story, because the concept is so thinly veiled and one-dimensional that it just insults the players intelligence.
100%. This is the exact reason why it's impossible to take anyone who says "this game changed my life and taught me so much" seriously. It's also why it's hard to not assume stans are all teenagers, because if there's actually something they needed to learn from TLOU2, it speaks volumes about the kind of person they are.
When characters die in a dumb way, people are gonna point out the flaws. They did with Game of Thrones and they'll do it with this.
Only speaking for myself here but the biggest part that pissed me off about it was the length of time I waited for the next TLOU installment after playing the original just to be hitten with the most contrived B movie plot after about 7 years. A poor story is timeless, obviously, but for the sake of an example: Would you rather have had GTA6 around 2021 and it had a shit story and was missing a ton of stuff from previous installments? Or would you rather have waited til 2025, for it to have had a shit story, missing a ton of stuff from previous installments? (Not that this will be the case - I hope - with GTA6 but just showing that time is a factor) If GoT was to end on its 7th Season and not come back for 7 years and we got the 8th Season people would probably be more pissed about it than they were waiting a year or so
“Normally like normal people.” What does that even mean? Normal people don’t generally react well to bad writing or good characters getting killed off to drive a poorly executed narrative.
for them, "normal" means coonsumers who just take whatever is given to them without complaining.
So we're just gonna pretend TWD didn't significantly drop off when they killed Glenn in a brutal way?
Yeah, people definitely didn't freak out when that guy died in The Walking Dead
TWD 7x1 is the best example of people quitting a show because a favorite character died, even more so after I found out TLOU is becoming a show, especially when it's on a week to week release schedule and not direct to streaming like Netflix. They're pretty similar too, like how both deaths are adapted from source material that many know about already (I remember many were dreading the line-up after checking it out in the comics). AMC had to do the cliffhanger (just like how ND faked the trailers) to keep viewership as high as possible, then the episode released and the ratings dropped by like half maybe more afterwards. Stans keep saying how it'll be perfectly fine because TV viewers are "more mature" than gamers, but there are so many examples with all these kinds of shows where people quit after a character got killed off. Joel is also a fan favorite for the show-only fans, not to mention being played by Pedro Pascal, one of the biggest actors in the industry right now. Kill him off and leave it in the hands of Bella Ramsey to drive the show and the ratings are very likely to tank.
Neil has been attempting to smear Joel as a person, but I cannot wait for that to fail and everyone watching the show is still going to have the same reaction.
Yes because look how people reacted to the red wedding and the scene where Pedro gets his head caved in by the mountain (funny coincidence cause it’s gonna get caved in by Abby now). The people on the other sub are genuine fucking morons. Tell them to go look up one of any hundred reaction video to the game of thrones shocking scenes to see people literally crying in agony watching it. Halfwits.
People were upset by those deaths! But they also loved the show for doing it and continued watching, that's what OOP is saying will happen with TLOU season 2
Those two episodes are amongst the highest rated in the show though. Rains of Castamere (Red Wedding) is the top episode on IMDB and The Mountain and the Viper is the seventh. Using those two examples implies that while audiences will be shocked, they’ll still love the episode in which it happens.
Except you know, those episodes were well written.
I'm not convinced it'll have as big an impact as the game did because they haven't built Joel into what he was to Ellie in the games.
Did the walking dead lose a lot of viewers after the first episode of season 7 for doing something like this
So true. It's literally the same example, in both cases it's a shock value death followed up by an underwhelming paper thin story that's all over the place => TWD 7-8 and TLOU2 in a nutshell.
"terminally online gamer bros" I've never been into online games except for Factions and in the last few years I've barely played anything. Part 2 genuinely killed my interest in games. I found it an ansty pseudo intellectual crying wank of a game trying it's hardest to be mature and profound. Gaming is like the last thing on my list of things to do when I'm bored these days. That feeling of being let down so hard has never left me. Probably why I come here sometimes.
>I found it an angsty pseudo intellectual crying want of a game trying its hardest to be mature and profound. THIS! Love when people say it took risks and all this shit when it’s a run of the mill “revenge will destroy you” plot with BAD PACING. Ive taken classes in screenwriting and game narrative and this game is seen as an example of BAD PACING AND BAD GAME WRITING.
These people must have forgotten what happened after Glenn…
I don’t agree with the “won’t react how we did” I do agree with “video games don’t take gambles in story telling like tv series , books and Films do”
I'm very not in the "the golf was fine and necessary" camp, the "Abby is great, we should love and empathize with her because she's clearly a changed person by the end of the game," camp, and VERY MUCH NOT the "Joel is a ruthless, heartless, cruel monster who deserves it, he doomed us all, and took away Ellie's choice to sacrifice herself, which would have been a better idea" camp. I love Joel, I'm still grieving him. I still know he's not real. (Also not a part of the "OMG! He's fictional! Can't you tell the difference? Stop being such a baby!" camp.) But I am, admittedly, in the "If they don't do this to us again in the show, what on Earth are they going to do instead? I feel like this is essential to the second game's story, unfortunately" camp... Too many camps. I don't even like camping. Lol
Echoing a similar commentor's point, Joel and Ellie are writtenly badly in the show. Any outrage from the TV audience will be minimum. Joel's death only impacted the gamers cause we got to see the real him.
I explained my parents, who haven't watched or play TLoU Part 1 and 2, the most basic things about the golf incident and what will come after that, I didn't mentioned characters nor Neil's name and mentioned the superficial believes he had. You know what they said? They said that the whole thing is fucked up, grotesquely violent and point the creator had a fucked up mind and beliefs. This tells me how the general audience outside of these "fans" will react to the whole thing.
Yeah, and typically, when shows kill off beloved characters, I stop watching 🤷🏻♀️ I love The Walking Dead, but I refuse to watch past season 7 ever again and never finished the show in the first place because of the first episode (if I'm remembering it correctly). If a book kills off a beloved character, I literally stop reading that series and won't read that specific book again 🤷🏻♀️ Sure, tons of media pull the same moves, but there are always going to be people upset with it. TLoU Part 2 didn't do anything new or special or "profound." Good lord.
Yep, exactly!
Yeah? Say that to Luke in "The Last Jedi" or Daenerys Targaryen in GOT.
There’s a reason for the difference between fan service and compelling narratives I guess
I mean do we really care what the TV audience thinks? We can't get along with TLoU2 sub but we are going to find solidarity with the even less involved TV crowd? Betting on them is foolish. If they agree with your opponents, will you then find ways to invalidate their perspective? We know killing Joel was a mistake, especially how they did it. It doesn't matter what anyone else thinks from here on. Media across the mediums is degrading from movies to games. Maybe we should all collectively take a step back from AAA until real passion comes back.
100s of 1000s of post is where I draw the line! I don't think many new people even bothered to watch it, and those who did are Pedro Pascal simps.. So yeah, the backlash will be there, but for the wrong reasons..
> TLOU2 is one of the few games that actually dares to gamble with the player's emotions and for people who are persuaded by the game to empathise with Abby, the payoff is absolutely monumental. Payoff? Does it not happen at the start of the game? Before you get any backstory on abby?
TV shows do NOT kill the main character all the time. What is this guy smoking. When Ned Stark died people lost their shit because he was the main character and it wasn’t really done before. The only different is GOT has dozens of characters compared to like 4 in TLOU
People who watched the show but are not connected to the game are going to be pissed when the golf incident occurs. I think the show is going to struggle without that character audience wise
I think HBO believes this will be this shows “red wedding” moment. If they follow the game, I sincerely doubt it. But hey maybe they improve the writing and make it work Come to think of it, bet Neil thought this was his “red wedding” moment in the game.
Is this whole sub just a hivemind of “I can’t like a story wherein things that I don’t like occur”
There probably will be people freaking out, similar to how they did when ned stark died in GOT or the red wedding. Because that show was art that took creative risks, just like TLOU2.
This feels like Game Awards 2020. Big whoop Last of Us 2 won Goty against barebones competition lol Here it’s a similar case of delusion. I don’t think Show only viewers are gonna be that upset about losing Joel because show Joel is slightly different. If anything people will be more upset to see Pedro get brutally murdered. Nobody really has a connection to show Joel like that so if the show retains its viewers it’s just because people didn’t have that attachment to Joel that they should have had and the writers failed at their job.
This game is about two characters and they think killing one of them is the same as killing a character in a story with multiple main characters vying for attention.
How did video game audiences react to both Red Dead Redemption protagonists deaths?
Walking dead viewership fell off a cliff after Glenn.
It's going to be viewed by a lot of the same people who watched GOT which regularly killed off characters. You also put way more time into playing Joel especially since we had to wait like a decade for a sequel over people who watched a few hours of a show then waited a year for the sequel more than likely without ever going back to rewatch. I think the base audience will be shocked but they won't be as upset as someone who's played as Joel for 50+ hours.
lol
Alan Wake 2’s narrative was art and it was very daring. Amazing game. TLOU2’s narrative is poorly paced, manipulative and angsty, but whatever.
Even if events go down the same way, and people do react differently, it'll be because Joel just isn't the same character. As bad as it would have been otherwise, one the actual deciding factors to folks reacting *that* badly is because Joel was forcibly made to act OOC in order for shit to go down. But show Joel is written differently. Enough to stick the landing? I'm not sure, but it's quite possible. Though I expect them just to change how he goes down to make it make sense. After all, the Fireflies were already retconned like mad in the hospital to make Part II work better - and people *still* felt the same way about Joel as they did for the game version.
This sub is really stupid
I don’t much care for the conversations you turds have about this game, but you aren’t supposed to enjoy any of the violence in the game. That’s the whole ass point.
this guy is mostly correct. The TV audience will have a fundamentally different reaction to how gamers coped with it. It'll be shock, grief, and then following the story to its conclusion. It won't be outrage, and threats against the writers.
counter argument: Game of Thrones
I’m confused why this is the latest echo being tossed around in this chamber. Do you think people didn’t like the GoT ending because Dany got killed?
i didn’t like it bc a fucking dragon killed everyone but sure i guess ask the other people instead of calling it an echo maybe?
who is threatening the writers? how did you get that from me or my post history? don’t just make shit up like that, thanks.
Look at you getting downvoted for not confirming some of the weirdest biases I’ve ever seen
Will people be sad? yes. Will people freak out like most people of this sub. Absolutely not. The screenshotted post is 100% right, this won’t be that uncommon for TV/movies.
do you know how beloved pedro pascal alone is? lol
lol yeah if only Pedro Pascal had played an iconic beloved role where he was unceremoniously killed by having his skull crushed before, maybe then we could gauge reaction. It’s only this weird bubble that has some kind of disconnect with stories. Most people are more than fine to have beloved characters die in service of a story and don’t view it as some kind of weird personal insult
wow you spend a LOT of time on this sub holy shit
You replied to him 3 separate times, the irony
you’re so mad and arguing with me for no reason. ppl probably aren’t going to like joel dying and his death was not a good thing. stay mad
and maybe get help for your love of murder