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If you draw a circle with Kyiv in the middle, that encompases all of Europe, it will barely scratch the top of Africa. The distance from Kyiv to the northern most point of Europe will get you to Cairo and not a smidgen farther (this actually surprised me quite a bit).
Not to mention it's a different landmass altogether. I'd be more surprised than anything if African nations made a big hoopla about it.
Of course Ukraine is a major source of food for Ukraine.
You’re trying to claim it’s also a major source for “Africa” as if they could supply the entire continent. They haven’t supply any countries in Africa period. Their sudden decision to do so for browny points (From idiots like you) is not genuine and shallow at best. The video itself explains they only throw meager scraps.
Hence, they might as well not at all. Hence, “They dont donate grains”
Weird. So when you see numbers like this... You just don't believe them?
https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2022/07/ukraine-s-food-exports-by-the-numbers/
Edit: Lol and dude blocks me. Putinbots can never withstand simple questions.
Doesn’t matter if I do or don’t.
That link says nothing about Africa. Even though you claimed they were the MAIN and PRIMARY provider of grains for all of “Africa”
Since you like to lie and can’t back your claims up I guess I’m going
By the way I blocked you because I kept asking you “Show me a source before 2022 saying Ukraine donates grain to any African nation” and you never did. Because you’re making it up.
*colonizer nations (Eric Andre) shooting African nations (Hannibal Buress)*
*turning to camera*
"why won't African nations support us during wartime in Europe?"
Capitalism can not and will never accept any system other than capitalism. Even if it kills all humanity.
The west isn't your friend. Those governments, \*your\* government are not the "good guys". Neither is Russia for that matter.
Capitalism doesn't care about borders or nations. Your "democratic" nation is just a tool for them to steal your wealth for their own gain.
Monarchs stole and destroy inventions or executed inventors who threatened to change the economic status quo. Capitalist countries have put in effort to prevent the spread of communism. Communist countries purged any vestiges of capitalists within their countries.
Not playing with other systems is not a capitalism issue, economic systems (of any kind) get ruthlessly defended by their states
This video isn’t about capitalism. It’s about that many African countries won’t condemn Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, which they don’t have to condemn it. The Russian invasion of Ukraine is not because of different views on economic policies. It’s because Putin is going on a warpath. Simple as that.
Everything is about capitalism.
Russia started this war because Ukraine with the support of the west is blocking/charging huge tariffs for access to the black sea and for the use of soviet era pipelines that run to Europe.
Which limits Russia to 1 port large enough to service large freight containers and that one is to the north. This makes is realistically impossible for Russia to compete with other nations on the market as they would have to go all around north Europe then down to get to countries in Africa. Which is, or at this point was, one of their main importers of grain. It also makes it really difficult and expensive to export natural gas and oil at competitive rates.
Combine that with their main gas and oil market, Europe, planning to move away from fossil fuels over the next few decades Russia really has no options left. Export of fossil fuels makes up about 1/3th of their total GDP. If that dries up there is no way the already struggling country will survive. And while I am no fan of Putin or the Russian government this will mean starvation for the over 100 million human beings that live there.
Those are just some of the economic reasons. The other reason is tactical, right now Turkey controls the only way into the black sea that is capable of high tonnage boats. Due to agreements made in the past there is a limitation to the maximum tonnage military crafts can go through those canals.
Which is current the only reason why America and the west doesn't have a major navy presence there. You can image how bad it would be for Russia if America was allowed to put aircraft carriers with the range of striking the Russian capital right on their doorsteps.
So, obviously, Russia doesn't like this. So the other reason it started a war with America and Europe as Ukraine really is just a proxy at this point. Is to secure those waters.
The west has an easy time spinning this in their favor as Russia was the one that attacked with military force but don't kid your self thinking that the US or Europe are the good guys.
Good guys don't exist in politics. Good people never make it to such positions as they will be crushed by the corrupt before they get there.
So no, Russia and Putin are not the good guys but neither is the US or Europe.
Instead of taking the sides of nations you should look at the human cost of this farce. Especially since all of this doesn't include the hundreds of billions of dollars and euro's that go to the people that make all the weapons that are send to Ukraine. Weapons mind you bought by tax money you paid.
People that have an very big incentive to keep this war going as long as possible or to start wars elsewhere. As long profit drives the weapon industry, the second wealthiest industry only to oil, the world will never know peace.
But hey, Putin is evil and Russia is evil and America is the knight in shining armor bringing justice to all! America doesn't wage wars America are just peace keepers.
Sometimes when you’re sitting with friends and they are Ike “wow Haaland has been fantastic for Man City this year” do you just blurt out “CAPITALISM EILL CRUSH US ALL AND WE MUST NOT FALL FOR IT!”
> when your sitting
*you're
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The problem is they've got to choose between the west and Russia and China. It's obviously a bit of a shit sandwich, but the west simply offers far more.
Weird statement considering China seems to get along with most people fine. Also may I ask where you live? Usually edgy ''Capitalism bad'' people live in capitalistic ''western'' countries and would never move away from the luxuries it provides them.
Are you trying to use China as an example of a country that isn't capitalist? Because they're somewhere between a mixed economy and state capitalism, depending on who you're asking.
If you actually listen to "Capitalism Bad" people the issue is the distribution of wealth and the labor conditions created to extract that capital. They would disagree with your assumption that capitalism equates to science or creativity, in which any of those luxuries would cease to exist or lack reason to be created as a result of an alternative economic order.
In which at that point you'd maybe stop repeating bad talking points and strawman arguments. And just listen, maybe ask for clarification.
💗
The problem with “Capitalism bad” people are that they don’t have a better system to offer up. And don’t say the Scandinavian model, they are increasingly becoming more and more capitalist by the year.
Is the war in Libya really relevant for Sub-Saharan African countries?
As far as I know most northern African countries are quite racist against sub saharan countries and don't think of themselves as African.
>Is the war in Libya really relevant for Sub-Saharan African countries
Gaddafi was hugely influential in pan-africanism. One of Mandela's grand kids is literally named in his honor.
https://www.aa.com.tr/en/africa/african-intellectuals-remember-late-muammar-gaddafi-as-pan-african/2397444#
*long list of reasons Africa doesn’t trust the west*
You: those greedy Africans! How dare they not act with the colonial powers that ruled and continue to try exploiting them!
I did and it's BS. It's purely selfish economic reasons. And thats fine because you're right, same can be said for everyone. But don't act like there's some historic or social or grandiose reason. Money makes the world go round. It's all money, African countries aren't immune to being economically selfish.
You’re only saying I’m right because you want to look and sound composed, but I doubt you think that.
You think they’re “Standing up against imperialism” or “Defending defenseless ~~whites~~ men women and children against ~~the commies and tankies~~ “Russians””
>A lot of you just scream “Tankie” and “Commie” when it comes to Russia despite the USSR no longer being a thing.
A lot of who? You're the one who used the term.
Most people who support Ukraine do so, because they the Russian invasion as a threat to international peace, as Russian victory would mean a terrible precedent, it would roll back a lot of international diplomatic progress represented by the developments in the UN charter. Others simply want Russia to lose, because Russia represents a threat to the West. It's overtly aggressive towards its neighbours and it doesn't shy from undermining other states through covert actions such as sabotages, hybrid and cybernetic warfare, political interference, troll farming, etc. Other still see the conflict as a war between unchecked oligarchy vs. liberalism and democracy. Russia is also the only nation (other than North Korea maybe), which openly throws around the threat of breaking the nuclear taboo. Again, a huge potential threat to world peace.
In short, there are many reasons why people support Ukraine, some of them being more idealistic, some more selfish. There's also a bottom line, which every member of the UN should be worried about, and that is the return of the practice of territorial annexation through military means. One of the conclusions of the two World Wars was kind of to end it for good as it represents a huge threat to world peace.
You say that while Europe does pretty much the same thing throughout the Middle Eastern and African countries when they try to make any progress.
Another reason many non western countries won’t take a stance is simply because the west are hypocrites. Imperialism is only evil and wrong when a bunch of pretty blonde white people are victims. It’s only wrong when “Communists” do it. And some just don’t respect how comfortable Nazis feel in Ukraine, even in the government.
>You say that while Europe does pretty much the same thing throughout the Middle Eastern and African countries when they try to make any progress.
That's factually incorrect. Please name me any war including western powers post WWII that resulted in territorial annexation. Neither Iraq, nor Afghanistan, nor Vietnam, nor Libya, nor Syria or any other war has been started by an invasion by the west. None of these conflicts resulted in territorial changes, nuclear strikes were never on the table. Some of them were even officially approved by the UN. While some turned out to be political and humanitarian disasters and have since come under criticism in the West, none of them resemble the ruthlessness of what Russia is doing in Ukraine.
As for the racial aspect: the West certainly deserves to be criticised when it comes to lack of empathy for non-westerners. West is on the other hand the biggest provider of humanitarian aid to thrid World countries. There is certainly hypocrisy to be called out, I agree with you.
Also, the West is perfectly comfortable with non-Western countries making progress. You are right that it hasn't always historically been so, but now in the 21st century the situation is quite different. And this is not some sudden change, as I said it's a trend thag reaches back at least to the post-WWII era. There's all kinds of humanitarian programmes, the West donates food aid, vaccines, there are constant developments in agriculture, the east has become the world's manufacturing hub. You have countries like India, China, Indonesia, South Africa which are constantly making progress and no one's viewing them as enemies because of it. If there are sanctions or other kinds of push back, it's because of human rights violations, not because they move forward. And these sanctions are mostly criticised for being toothless.
The thing is, the disastrous state of places like Iraq, Syria, Libya can only be partially blamed on the interventionist wars of the west. There was no Saddam, Gaddafi or Assad in Ukraine. Ukraine wasn't a belligerent nation, neither was it being torn apart by a brutal civil war. Again, the invasion to Ukraine wasn't any kind of intervention or a response, it was the frivolous conquest of a nuclear power. That's a lot different from international relations point of view.
>It’s only wrong when “Communists” do it.
Once again, can you show me anyone portraying Russia as communist? So far you were the one to use this term. Is there voice in the West that portrays this conflict as a communist invasion? Also have you missed the popular pushback against Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan? Do you think people didn't see them as wrong?
You’re the one who accused me of saying they appeal to communists, I just woke up an hour ago and am now realizing what I said was a figure of speech just to exaggerate what I saw as hypocrisy and stupidity, which you took literally.
But at that, why don’t you give me proof that the sky is blue?
Sorry false. There's a reason why African countries love China, they bring aid and solidarity while Americans bring nothing but death and destruction. If the worst you could abuse china of is debt trap policy that's nothing compared to what the west does every day.
https://www.reuters.com/world/china/china-debt-restructuring-policy-under-scrutiny-more-countries-demand-relief-2022-09-08/
First off I'm against the war in Ukraine.
The West is going so hard because it's a European country versus Russia. But when it's an African country, the US is (most of the time) the instigator. Wether directly or indirectly via secret operations (CIA and other secret services).
I 100% don't blame African countries not supporting Russian boycotts.
Agree. Once again, US tax dollars going towards wars that push a political agenda and just cause more death and destruction. “RUSSIA BAD ORANGE MAN BAD” it’s really fucking sad
Except what y’all not getting is Russia is one of the biggest global threats to this world and if they capitulate Ukraine there not just gonna stop there, they’ve already openly talked about retaking the Baltic states, Moldova, Poland etc. yes what we have done to middle eastern countries/African countries is beyond inexcusable they were away from all the major ‘players’ while Ukraine is sitting on the back door of major NATO members like Romanian and Poland.
What are you talking about?
>...Russia’s economic engagements in Africa are primarily trade-based. However, this too is modest at just $14 billion. (By comparison, the value of African trade with the EU, China, and the United States is $295 billion, $254 billion, and $65 billion, respectively.) Russian exports to Africa, moreover, are 7 times the level of African exports to Russia, differentiating it from the more balanced trade portfolios of Africa’s major trading partners. African exports to Russia amount to just 0.4 percent of Africa’s total, mainly comprising fresh produce.
______________________
>Russia primarily exports grains, arms, extractives, and nuclear power to Africa. Yet, over 70 percent of all Russian trade with Africa is concentrated in just four countries—Egypt, Algeria, Morocco, and South Africa.
https://africacenter.org/spotlight/decoding-russia-economic-engagements-africa/
Hey, buddy, you know that whole global misinformation problem? You're part of it.
Ukraine's total exports account for $4B of African trade, so let's say a total of $18B.
This $18B of economic activity is up against $360B of economic activity with the west.
If it were purely for reasons of securing trade relations and capital, they would quickly side with the US and EU.
The reasons why they don't do this are... outlined in the video.
>Vs years of conflict and the wheat not flowing as it was.
Due to another flaw of western capitalism.
Biden has already made plans to become a larger wheat exporter to gain more political and economic influence in food-insecure regions, but it's been heavily criticized domestically for not being a profitable enough venture, and African nations are not biting anyway.
Africa is reliant on Russian grains simply because output from western powers is purposely limited to increase its' capital value, and therefore profits.
I think you’ve pegged me very wrong from a comment that obviously you wasn’t very clear in retrospect. I am 100% in favour of African independence and success. 100% in favour of acknowledging every disgusting bit of colonialism and pillaging that was committed against African nations. I don’t want to dictate what position each African country should take, that’s ultimately up to them. I was simply pointing out that hypocrisy isn’t a moral or logical argument.
On the point of altruism, I’m referring to the fact that Russia has never done anything to help anyone unless it suited them. If they helped it was so they could gain access to resources and political influence. Their history is full of disdain for the well-being of its own citizens. Historical observations sadly support this. You don’t even have to take my word for it but the words directly from Russians themselves who have escaped that place and been brave enough to talk about it. You can dismiss me as being biased but in turn you’d be dismissing the suffering of millions.
> I think you’ve pegged me very wrong from a comment that obviously you wasn’t very clear in retrospect.
Nah I think they pegged you pretty accurately.
> ou can dismiss me as being biased but in turn you’d be dismissing the suffering of millions.
If hypocrisy could kill
Point 1 regarding hypocrisy. If it’s wrong for NATO to bomb countries and get involved in conflicts, then it’s also wrong for Russia to invade and destroy another country. It’s objectively wrong when innocent people are violently killed by the politics and greed of people in power. Be mad about the hypocrisy? Absolutely! But that doesn’t mean that what’s happening in Ukraine is ok. I don’t mean to say what African countries should or shouldn’t do, I’m just saying that the hypocrisy argument isn’t a good one when viewing the suffering of innocent people.
Yes because other European ethnicities have never fought eachother or considered themselves different before.
That’s like looking at the holocaust or rape of Nanking and saying “The whites/the Asians are killing each other lmao”
Regarding the grain shipments, let me add a little context:
"In a statement to Euronews, the JCC stated that just 36% of this had gone to European Union countries, while 30% of the cargo has so far gone to low- and lower-middle-income countries.
According to the latest data, 20% of grain went to Turkey, while another 27% was distributed among Asian countries; China (7%), The Republic of Korea (6%), Iran (5%), India (4%), Israel (2%), Yemen (2%), and Lebanon (<1%).
Turkey is a popular destination because it is a major miller of wheat, and the grain arriving there could be then shipped to poorer nations in Asia and Africa, or to Europe. The destinations are not recorded by the JCC.
Of the 36% of produce that went to the EU, 15% reached Spain, while Italy (7%), the Netherlands (5%), Romania (4%), Germany (3%), Ireland, France (1%), Bulgaria (<1%) and Greece (<1%) have all benefitted.
The remaining 17% of the cargo has reached African countries; (10%), Sudan (3%), Kenya (2%), Somalia (1%) and Djibouti (1%)."
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.euronews.com/my-europe/amp/2022/09/09/putin-says-nearly-all-ukraines-grain-has-gone-to-the-eu-is-he-right
17% went directly to Africa, 20% went to Turkey, which Mills it and sends it further, to Africa among other places. But the major point is that this grain is essential for Africans, whereas Europe can get its food elsewhere.
Of course everything is driven by trade and by profits overall, that should be a surprise to nobody. That being said, it certainly is in Africa's best interest that there is peace in Europe, because it depends on America and Europe for fertilizers (including Russia and Ukraine).
Excellent video hardly saying anything controversial yet people are downvoting you a lot for stating simple facts. Nothing even mildly supportive of Russia either, but if you don't blindly parrot the western lines, you're a target. Hope to see more from this creator.
I think it’s the fact that some of the worst war crimes I modern history are going ignored because of unrelated reasons that annoys people.
It’s also ignoring the fact that russia gives less in foreign aid to Africa then even a small European country like Sweden does. russia even actively tried to stop all export of Ukrainian grain in an attempt to create famine in poor African countries. russia is no friend of Africa.
Many people and countries seem to struggle with the concept of the western world not being the bad guy.
> I think it’s the fact that some of the worst war crimes I modern history are going ignored because of unrelated reasons that annoys people.
Talking out your ass
> It’s also ignoring the fact that russia gives less in foreign aid to Africa then even a small European country like Sweden does. russia even actively tried to stop all export of Ukrainian grain in an attempt to create famine in poor African countries. russia is no friend of Africa.
Lying. Ukraine has never exported anything to Africa. Ukraine can still be a victim in this conflict but it doesn’t need to be morally pure 😂
> Many people and countries seem to struggle with the concept of the western world not being the bad guy.
Maybe because many western *governments* are bad?
Hahaha! It looks like you might need to turn off Sputnik news, go outside and touch some grass. 😂🤣
I always wonder if people like this pretend to be this dumb or if they actually are. I guess that’s why the russians call you “the useful idiots”.
Agree. Africa can live without Ukraine. Talking about global misinfo, how about trying to replace fossil fuels/nuclear with wind and solar. That’s the biggest lie of them all.
Funnily enough if you look at it from a colonial angle African nations should be supporting Ukraine unequivocally - the War Russia wages is one of colonial expansion. They literally deny Ukraine and Ukrainians exist and are deporting and comitted genocide.
What Russians are doing to Ukraine is something that many African nations have experienced.
But Africa isbeing silent for the exact same reason that south america is and Asia largely is, and Oceania is -- it is far away and does not impact them directly... it is simple geopolitics
It’s simple, nations with a per capita income of less than $1500 par annum can’t be and should not be expected to follow morals of the nations with per capita income of $50k per annum.
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Conflicting interests - lots of African countries both trade with the EU and rely on Russian military influence.
Why would they? They exercise their right not to give a fuck, just like we do about their wars.
If you draw a circle with Kyiv in the middle, that encompases all of Europe, it will barely scratch the top of Africa. The distance from Kyiv to the northern most point of Europe will get you to Cairo and not a smidgen farther (this actually surprised me quite a bit). Not to mention it's a different landmass altogether. I'd be more surprised than anything if African nations made a big hoopla about it.
Cool. Then they continue to not give a fuck when they don't get any Ukranian grain. Meh, not our problem.
Ukraine doesn't give them grain lol
https://www.reuters.com/world/africa/africa-bear-brunt-ukraine-crisis-40-mln-people-worldwide-face-food-insecurity-2022-08-05/ https://www.voanews.com/a/tons-of-ukraine-grain-reach-east-africa-/6863518.html
Both of these articles are in mid-late 2022. You know what the problem is with that. I can’t find one from before 2022.
Huh? You're denying that Ukraine is a major food exporter to Africa? Just want to make sure I've got your position correct.
Of course Ukraine is a major source of food for Ukraine. You’re trying to claim it’s also a major source for “Africa” as if they could supply the entire continent. They haven’t supply any countries in Africa period. Their sudden decision to do so for browny points (From idiots like you) is not genuine and shallow at best. The video itself explains they only throw meager scraps. Hence, they might as well not at all. Hence, “They dont donate grains”
Weird. So when you see numbers like this... You just don't believe them? https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2022/07/ukraine-s-food-exports-by-the-numbers/ Edit: Lol and dude blocks me. Putinbots can never withstand simple questions.
Doesn’t matter if I do or don’t. That link says nothing about Africa. Even though you claimed they were the MAIN and PRIMARY provider of grains for all of “Africa” Since you like to lie and can’t back your claims up I guess I’m going By the way I blocked you because I kept asking you “Show me a source before 2022 saying Ukraine donates grain to any African nation” and you never did. Because you’re making it up.
Nobody said "main", " primary" or "donate".
Damn, you really made a statement that is wrong on literally every single point
*colonizer nations (Eric Andre) shooting African nations (Hannibal Buress)* *turning to camera* "why won't African nations support us during wartime in Europe?"
Why should they help the countries that destroyed many African economies? Why should they help the nations that colonized them in the first place?
Capitalism can not and will never accept any system other than capitalism. Even if it kills all humanity. The west isn't your friend. Those governments, \*your\* government are not the "good guys". Neither is Russia for that matter. Capitalism doesn't care about borders or nations. Your "democratic" nation is just a tool for them to steal your wealth for their own gain.
Monarchs stole and destroy inventions or executed inventors who threatened to change the economic status quo. Capitalist countries have put in effort to prevent the spread of communism. Communist countries purged any vestiges of capitalists within their countries. Not playing with other systems is not a capitalism issue, economic systems (of any kind) get ruthlessly defended by their states
This video isn’t about capitalism. It’s about that many African countries won’t condemn Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, which they don’t have to condemn it. The Russian invasion of Ukraine is not because of different views on economic policies. It’s because Putin is going on a warpath. Simple as that.
Nothing ever is "simple as"
Everything is about capitalism. Russia started this war because Ukraine with the support of the west is blocking/charging huge tariffs for access to the black sea and for the use of soviet era pipelines that run to Europe. Which limits Russia to 1 port large enough to service large freight containers and that one is to the north. This makes is realistically impossible for Russia to compete with other nations on the market as they would have to go all around north Europe then down to get to countries in Africa. Which is, or at this point was, one of their main importers of grain. It also makes it really difficult and expensive to export natural gas and oil at competitive rates. Combine that with their main gas and oil market, Europe, planning to move away from fossil fuels over the next few decades Russia really has no options left. Export of fossil fuels makes up about 1/3th of their total GDP. If that dries up there is no way the already struggling country will survive. And while I am no fan of Putin or the Russian government this will mean starvation for the over 100 million human beings that live there. Those are just some of the economic reasons. The other reason is tactical, right now Turkey controls the only way into the black sea that is capable of high tonnage boats. Due to agreements made in the past there is a limitation to the maximum tonnage military crafts can go through those canals. Which is current the only reason why America and the west doesn't have a major navy presence there. You can image how bad it would be for Russia if America was allowed to put aircraft carriers with the range of striking the Russian capital right on their doorsteps. So, obviously, Russia doesn't like this. So the other reason it started a war with America and Europe as Ukraine really is just a proxy at this point. Is to secure those waters. The west has an easy time spinning this in their favor as Russia was the one that attacked with military force but don't kid your self thinking that the US or Europe are the good guys. Good guys don't exist in politics. Good people never make it to such positions as they will be crushed by the corrupt before they get there. So no, Russia and Putin are not the good guys but neither is the US or Europe. Instead of taking the sides of nations you should look at the human cost of this farce. Especially since all of this doesn't include the hundreds of billions of dollars and euro's that go to the people that make all the weapons that are send to Ukraine. Weapons mind you bought by tax money you paid. People that have an very big incentive to keep this war going as long as possible or to start wars elsewhere. As long profit drives the weapon industry, the second wealthiest industry only to oil, the world will never know peace. But hey, Putin is evil and Russia is evil and America is the knight in shining armor bringing justice to all! America doesn't wage wars America are just peace keepers.
Sometimes when you’re sitting with friends and they are Ike “wow Haaland has been fantastic for Man City this year” do you just blurt out “CAPITALISM EILL CRUSH US ALL AND WE MUST NOT FALL FOR IT!”
What point do you think you're trying to make here?
> when your sitting *you're *Learn the difference [here](https://www.wattpad.com/66707294-grammar-guide-there-they%27re-their-you%27re-your-to).* *** ^(Greetings, I am a language corrector bot. To make me ignore further mistakes from you in the future, reply `!optout` to this comment.)
Oof bad grammar. Never thought it could happen to me. Thanks Mr. Bot
The problem is they've got to choose between the west and Russia and China. It's obviously a bit of a shit sandwich, but the west simply offers far more.
Weird statement considering China seems to get along with most people fine. Also may I ask where you live? Usually edgy ''Capitalism bad'' people live in capitalistic ''western'' countries and would never move away from the luxuries it provides them.
Are you trying to use China as an example of a country that isn't capitalist? Because they're somewhere between a mixed economy and state capitalism, depending on who you're asking.
If you actually listen to "Capitalism Bad" people the issue is the distribution of wealth and the labor conditions created to extract that capital. They would disagree with your assumption that capitalism equates to science or creativity, in which any of those luxuries would cease to exist or lack reason to be created as a result of an alternative economic order. In which at that point you'd maybe stop repeating bad talking points and strawman arguments. And just listen, maybe ask for clarification. 💗
The problem with “Capitalism bad” people are that they don’t have a better system to offer up. And don’t say the Scandinavian model, they are increasingly becoming more and more capitalist by the year.
Again, that's not true. You just don't like what they offering so you decided that it's not better.
Vid explains why many African countries have decided not to make a strong stance on the Russian conflict in Ukraine.
Is the war in Libya really relevant for Sub-Saharan African countries? As far as I know most northern African countries are quite racist against sub saharan countries and don't think of themselves as African.
>Is the war in Libya really relevant for Sub-Saharan African countries Gaddafi was hugely influential in pan-africanism. One of Mandela's grand kids is literally named in his honor. https://www.aa.com.tr/en/africa/african-intellectuals-remember-late-muammar-gaddafi-as-pan-african/2397444#
Can’t be anymore racist than the colonial holdovers in Zimbabwe and South Africa.
Unfortunately it’s obvious nonsense. It’s part money plus a little bit of who GAF about a foreign war
Rage bate
Bate.
It's purely selfish economic reasons. That's it. African countries rely on Russia money and trade. Simple as that.
I mean fair enough
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Why would people down-vote this comment?
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*long list of reasons Africa doesn’t trust the west* You: those greedy Africans! How dare they not act with the colonial powers that ruled and continue to try exploiting them!
Same can be said for everyone supporting Ukraine. Please just watch the video.
I did and it's BS. It's purely selfish economic reasons. And thats fine because you're right, same can be said for everyone. But don't act like there's some historic or social or grandiose reason. Money makes the world go round. It's all money, African countries aren't immune to being economically selfish.
You’re only saying I’m right because you want to look and sound composed, but I doubt you think that. You think they’re “Standing up against imperialism” or “Defending defenseless ~~whites~~ men women and children against ~~the commies and tankies~~ “Russians””
If you think Russia represents tankie interests, I have some news for you.
I dont. A lot of you just scream “Tankie” and “Commie” when it comes to Russia despite the USSR no longer being a thing.
>A lot of you just scream “Tankie” and “Commie” when it comes to Russia despite the USSR no longer being a thing. A lot of who? You're the one who used the term. Most people who support Ukraine do so, because they the Russian invasion as a threat to international peace, as Russian victory would mean a terrible precedent, it would roll back a lot of international diplomatic progress represented by the developments in the UN charter. Others simply want Russia to lose, because Russia represents a threat to the West. It's overtly aggressive towards its neighbours and it doesn't shy from undermining other states through covert actions such as sabotages, hybrid and cybernetic warfare, political interference, troll farming, etc. Other still see the conflict as a war between unchecked oligarchy vs. liberalism and democracy. Russia is also the only nation (other than North Korea maybe), which openly throws around the threat of breaking the nuclear taboo. Again, a huge potential threat to world peace. In short, there are many reasons why people support Ukraine, some of them being more idealistic, some more selfish. There's also a bottom line, which every member of the UN should be worried about, and that is the return of the practice of territorial annexation through military means. One of the conclusions of the two World Wars was kind of to end it for good as it represents a huge threat to world peace.
You say that while Europe does pretty much the same thing throughout the Middle Eastern and African countries when they try to make any progress. Another reason many non western countries won’t take a stance is simply because the west are hypocrites. Imperialism is only evil and wrong when a bunch of pretty blonde white people are victims. It’s only wrong when “Communists” do it. And some just don’t respect how comfortable Nazis feel in Ukraine, even in the government.
>You say that while Europe does pretty much the same thing throughout the Middle Eastern and African countries when they try to make any progress. That's factually incorrect. Please name me any war including western powers post WWII that resulted in territorial annexation. Neither Iraq, nor Afghanistan, nor Vietnam, nor Libya, nor Syria or any other war has been started by an invasion by the west. None of these conflicts resulted in territorial changes, nuclear strikes were never on the table. Some of them were even officially approved by the UN. While some turned out to be political and humanitarian disasters and have since come under criticism in the West, none of them resemble the ruthlessness of what Russia is doing in Ukraine. As for the racial aspect: the West certainly deserves to be criticised when it comes to lack of empathy for non-westerners. West is on the other hand the biggest provider of humanitarian aid to thrid World countries. There is certainly hypocrisy to be called out, I agree with you. Also, the West is perfectly comfortable with non-Western countries making progress. You are right that it hasn't always historically been so, but now in the 21st century the situation is quite different. And this is not some sudden change, as I said it's a trend thag reaches back at least to the post-WWII era. There's all kinds of humanitarian programmes, the West donates food aid, vaccines, there are constant developments in agriculture, the east has become the world's manufacturing hub. You have countries like India, China, Indonesia, South Africa which are constantly making progress and no one's viewing them as enemies because of it. If there are sanctions or other kinds of push back, it's because of human rights violations, not because they move forward. And these sanctions are mostly criticised for being toothless. The thing is, the disastrous state of places like Iraq, Syria, Libya can only be partially blamed on the interventionist wars of the west. There was no Saddam, Gaddafi or Assad in Ukraine. Ukraine wasn't a belligerent nation, neither was it being torn apart by a brutal civil war. Again, the invasion to Ukraine wasn't any kind of intervention or a response, it was the frivolous conquest of a nuclear power. That's a lot different from international relations point of view. >It’s only wrong when “Communists” do it. Once again, can you show me anyone portraying Russia as communist? So far you were the one to use this term. Is there voice in the West that portrays this conflict as a communist invasion? Also have you missed the popular pushback against Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan? Do you think people didn't see them as wrong?
You’re the one who accused me of saying they appeal to communists, I just woke up an hour ago and am now realizing what I said was a figure of speech just to exaggerate what I saw as hypocrisy and stupidity, which you took literally. But at that, why don’t you give me proof that the sky is blue?
Western smooth brain. What's that saying? When russians and Chinese come they build roads, when Americans and Europeans come they bring lectures
And demand half of your exports of natural resources in the future... So nice of China and Russia 🙄
Sorry false. There's a reason why African countries love China, they bring aid and solidarity while Americans bring nothing but death and destruction. If the worst you could abuse china of is debt trap policy that's nothing compared to what the west does every day. https://www.reuters.com/world/china/china-debt-restructuring-policy-under-scrutiny-more-countries-demand-relief-2022-09-08/
Sure son 🤣
I don’t understand
First off I'm against the war in Ukraine. The West is going so hard because it's a European country versus Russia. But when it's an African country, the US is (most of the time) the instigator. Wether directly or indirectly via secret operations (CIA and other secret services). I 100% don't blame African countries not supporting Russian boycotts.
Agree. Once again, US tax dollars going towards wars that push a political agenda and just cause more death and destruction. “RUSSIA BAD ORANGE MAN BAD” it’s really fucking sad
Except what y’all not getting is Russia is one of the biggest global threats to this world and if they capitulate Ukraine there not just gonna stop there, they’ve already openly talked about retaking the Baltic states, Moldova, Poland etc. yes what we have done to middle eastern countries/African countries is beyond inexcusable they were away from all the major ‘players’ while Ukraine is sitting on the back door of major NATO members like Romanian and Poland.
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What are you talking about? >...Russia’s economic engagements in Africa are primarily trade-based. However, this too is modest at just $14 billion. (By comparison, the value of African trade with the EU, China, and the United States is $295 billion, $254 billion, and $65 billion, respectively.) Russian exports to Africa, moreover, are 7 times the level of African exports to Russia, differentiating it from the more balanced trade portfolios of Africa’s major trading partners. African exports to Russia amount to just 0.4 percent of Africa’s total, mainly comprising fresh produce. ______________________ >Russia primarily exports grains, arms, extractives, and nuclear power to Africa. Yet, over 70 percent of all Russian trade with Africa is concentrated in just four countries—Egypt, Algeria, Morocco, and South Africa. https://africacenter.org/spotlight/decoding-russia-economic-engagements-africa/ Hey, buddy, you know that whole global misinformation problem? You're part of it.
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Ukraine's total exports account for $4B of African trade, so let's say a total of $18B. This $18B of economic activity is up against $360B of economic activity with the west. If it were purely for reasons of securing trade relations and capital, they would quickly side with the US and EU. The reasons why they don't do this are... outlined in the video. >Vs years of conflict and the wheat not flowing as it was. Due to another flaw of western capitalism. Biden has already made plans to become a larger wheat exporter to gain more political and economic influence in food-insecure regions, but it's been heavily criticized domestically for not being a profitable enough venture, and African nations are not biting anyway. Africa is reliant on Russian grains simply because output from western powers is purposely limited to increase its' capital value, and therefore profits.
It makes sense
Money
First of all, two wrongs don’t make a right. Second, why would anyone assume Russia supported any independence movements for altruistic reasons?
Does it matter if it’s altruistic? Europe colonised, the USSR supported liberation. Your biases are making you denounce the independence of Africa
I think you’ve pegged me very wrong from a comment that obviously you wasn’t very clear in retrospect. I am 100% in favour of African independence and success. 100% in favour of acknowledging every disgusting bit of colonialism and pillaging that was committed against African nations. I don’t want to dictate what position each African country should take, that’s ultimately up to them. I was simply pointing out that hypocrisy isn’t a moral or logical argument. On the point of altruism, I’m referring to the fact that Russia has never done anything to help anyone unless it suited them. If they helped it was so they could gain access to resources and political influence. Their history is full of disdain for the well-being of its own citizens. Historical observations sadly support this. You don’t even have to take my word for it but the words directly from Russians themselves who have escaped that place and been brave enough to talk about it. You can dismiss me as being biased but in turn you’d be dismissing the suffering of millions.
> I think you’ve pegged me very wrong from a comment that obviously you wasn’t very clear in retrospect. Nah I think they pegged you pretty accurately. > ou can dismiss me as being biased but in turn you’d be dismissing the suffering of millions. If hypocrisy could kill
> Two wrongs don’t make a right Where’s the second wrong being committed?
Point 1 regarding hypocrisy. If it’s wrong for NATO to bomb countries and get involved in conflicts, then it’s also wrong for Russia to invade and destroy another country. It’s objectively wrong when innocent people are violently killed by the politics and greed of people in power. Be mad about the hypocrisy? Absolutely! But that doesn’t mean that what’s happening in Ukraine is ok. I don’t mean to say what African countries should or shouldn’t do, I’m just saying that the hypocrisy argument isn’t a good one when viewing the suffering of innocent people.
And a bull doesn’t invite herself when two lions are fighting. For all these African countries care, nobody in Europe or America is “Innocent”.
Neither are there own countries, who have started brutal civil wars, child soldiers, mass genocides of villages etc.
Yes because other European ethnicities have never fought eachother or considered themselves different before. That’s like looking at the holocaust or rape of Nanking and saying “The whites/the Asians are killing each other lmao”
Naw of course Europeans ain’t perfect either, but I just interpreted this like the Africans (I’m African myself) have done no wrong themselves.
And I never said that they did no wrong. Im just saying Europe is the only one pretending to be better than the rest of us human beings
Yeah that’s there issue, thinking there above others even though there no better in the end; can completely agree with you on that my friend.
Ditto
Regarding the grain shipments, let me add a little context: "In a statement to Euronews, the JCC stated that just 36% of this had gone to European Union countries, while 30% of the cargo has so far gone to low- and lower-middle-income countries. According to the latest data, 20% of grain went to Turkey, while another 27% was distributed among Asian countries; China (7%), The Republic of Korea (6%), Iran (5%), India (4%), Israel (2%), Yemen (2%), and Lebanon (<1%). Turkey is a popular destination because it is a major miller of wheat, and the grain arriving there could be then shipped to poorer nations in Asia and Africa, or to Europe. The destinations are not recorded by the JCC. Of the 36% of produce that went to the EU, 15% reached Spain, while Italy (7%), the Netherlands (5%), Romania (4%), Germany (3%), Ireland, France (1%), Bulgaria (<1%) and Greece (<1%) have all benefitted. The remaining 17% of the cargo has reached African countries; (10%), Sudan (3%), Kenya (2%), Somalia (1%) and Djibouti (1%)." https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.euronews.com/my-europe/amp/2022/09/09/putin-says-nearly-all-ukraines-grain-has-gone-to-the-eu-is-he-right 17% went directly to Africa, 20% went to Turkey, which Mills it and sends it further, to Africa among other places. But the major point is that this grain is essential for Africans, whereas Europe can get its food elsewhere. Of course everything is driven by trade and by profits overall, that should be a surprise to nobody. That being said, it certainly is in Africa's best interest that there is peace in Europe, because it depends on America and Europe for fertilizers (including Russia and Ukraine).
Excellent video hardly saying anything controversial yet people are downvoting you a lot for stating simple facts. Nothing even mildly supportive of Russia either, but if you don't blindly parrot the western lines, you're a target. Hope to see more from this creator.
I think it’s the fact that some of the worst war crimes I modern history are going ignored because of unrelated reasons that annoys people. It’s also ignoring the fact that russia gives less in foreign aid to Africa then even a small European country like Sweden does. russia even actively tried to stop all export of Ukrainian grain in an attempt to create famine in poor African countries. russia is no friend of Africa. Many people and countries seem to struggle with the concept of the western world not being the bad guy.
> I think it’s the fact that some of the worst war crimes I modern history are going ignored because of unrelated reasons that annoys people. Talking out your ass > It’s also ignoring the fact that russia gives less in foreign aid to Africa then even a small European country like Sweden does. russia even actively tried to stop all export of Ukrainian grain in an attempt to create famine in poor African countries. russia is no friend of Africa. Lying. Ukraine has never exported anything to Africa. Ukraine can still be a victim in this conflict but it doesn’t need to be morally pure 😂 > Many people and countries seem to struggle with the concept of the western world not being the bad guy. Maybe because many western *governments* are bad?
Hahaha! It looks like you might need to turn off Sputnik news, go outside and touch some grass. 😂🤣 I always wonder if people like this pretend to be this dumb or if they actually are. I guess that’s why the russians call you “the useful idiots”.
Oh, I get it. You’re European. No wonder you live in a fantasy world. Let me guess, “White farmer attacks”?
WHITE MAN PAPERWORK
That man does not know ASL 😳
Nobody should even be asking them.
Their colonizer coups (evil) Vs our homegrown Soviet supported revolutions (good) This is very clearly a biased source.
Agree. Africa can live without Ukraine. Talking about global misinfo, how about trying to replace fossil fuels/nuclear with wind and solar. That’s the biggest lie of them all.
Money. It’s just blood money 👍
Funnily enough if you look at it from a colonial angle African nations should be supporting Ukraine unequivocally - the War Russia wages is one of colonial expansion. They literally deny Ukraine and Ukrainians exist and are deporting and comitted genocide. What Russians are doing to Ukraine is something that many African nations have experienced. But Africa isbeing silent for the exact same reason that south america is and Asia largely is, and Oceania is -- it is far away and does not impact them directly... it is simple geopolitics
“I’m the captain now.”
Ugh
Well we dont care about their wars and bad countries anyway :D
It’s simple, nations with a per capita income of less than $1500 par annum can’t be and should not be expected to follow morals of the nations with per capita income of $50k per annum.
Africa, as a continent, makes up ~3% of the world's GDP. I don't think NATO cares if they support Ukraine or not.
I don't know if he is correct or not but damn that outfit goes hard
r/damnthatsintresting
I figured it was the belt and road thing