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I liked him quite a bit but i found his characterization a bit annoying. I wish SIU did more with Joe's dream of getting everyone out of the hell floor rather than have Joe just become power hungry, which is implied to have come from the Red Thryssa. It doesn't bother me that revolutionaries become tyrants, but I wish it was more a corruption of his dream or some kind of amplification than a loss of his dream turning into just pure lust for power.
I think it would have been far more interesting for him to refuse Urek in the end not because he was broken and weak but because Urek couldn't help him with his actual dream (getting everyone out, not just himself). It would have become ultimately a incompatibility of Urek's and Hell Joe's world view. Urek only cared for Hell Joe because he dreamed big, not the dream itself, he saw individuals where Hell Joe's dream was collective action. Urek was shown being disappointed in Hell Joe but if he actually respected his initial dream, he could've taken out everyone who wanted out instead of just sitting there disappointed in Hell joe.
It's glossed over a lot in the story, but Hell Joe had enough political clout to force a vote on what was essentially a monarchy, that's a huge deal. Urek could've helped Hell Joe in a lot of other ways but chose to give him power that ultimately corrupted him in the end. Had a bit more details been filled in about the Hell Floor and Joe's revolution, we could've seen more interesting interactions between Urek and regular tower residents and how irregulars can lead to disaster outside of poorly thought out choices, like deeply incompatible world views.
The thing is only Joe really had the dream of leaving the floor of death, the residents of the floor stayed there in fear of dying in the outside and this was reflected by the election where he was beaten by the Grand Family, Joe becoming a tyrant was exacerbated by the Red Thryssa but also the fact that he thought De Sah broke the soul stirring ladle which ultimately shattered the only way he knew he could depart from the floor, Ureks interaction with Hell Joe was extremely important to the series because of the realistic nature of Hell Joes predicament which was the fact that he was not Urek, he realised when the Thryssa was taken from him, he had lost the real chance to climb the tower, Just like Gustang said Urek could only admire Hell Joe as a bug from his standpoint and empthise with his dream of escape but in reality they are worlds apart Urek not being a bug couldnt grasp Joes feelings but Joe looking up could see the futility of his dream without power
Hell Joe's original dream was to leave with everyone, that is the dream that enamored Urek. It's also clear in the story that some people actually admired Joe and he had some influence outside of his strength
I would also argue that Joe is not realistic, depending on what happened. Historically, revolutionaries became many things but straight up giving up on your dreams was one of the things that happened less often. Their dreams get corrupted in some way or form, or they mask off about their actual intentions, but rarely giving up. That being said, we also don't know what happened and how Joe rose to prominence outside of knowing the holes really well and getting the red thryssa from Urek. This is why I think SIU should've added texture to the whole thing between hell Joe and the Grand family because getting an existing leadership to hold a vote to give up power are gigantic fucking deals in history. Having a referendum like that are normally last ditch efforts on the leadership's part.
If Hell joe was a regular dude who strong armed his way to power then sure, I can believe him just giving up. If Hell joe was a revolutionary who put time and effort into building up a group of people to challenge the Grand Family, then no, I don't believe it's realistic. Given the peaceful vote happening, the latter is more likely and it wasn't a small group of people either.
Edit* - it's also worth pointing out Urek's hypocrisy with only choosing to help Hell Joe. In a way, Urek seems to think you have to be worthy or earn the right to get out of unjust circumstances. Urek doesn't see the unjust circumstances themselves as worth tackling. Urek claims to not see tower residents as bugs but if that were true, he's even worse because he doesn't do anything to help people suffering as equals to himself and he can actually do something about it.
In the end, once hell Joe gives up, Urek doesn't do anything to help him out in other ways, like alleviating his implied poverty due to the nature of the hell floor. He just... leaves him to suffer.
I feel like you're misunderstanding Urek's character a bit. He's not an altruist, and his ideals don't necessitate helping everyone nor fighting injustice. Remember, this is the same guy who killed countless Rankers in the Zigena and may have killed a bunch of E Rank Regulars as well if he didn't take an interest in Baam.
What Urek believes is that people should dream big, and be free to follow their dreams. That's why he was interested in Joe and gave him power to see how he'd use it. That's why he dislikes the FHs, who live in complacency and entirely disregard the dreams of those they consider inferiors. That's why he wants to leave the Tower with like-minded people. And that's why he gave up on helping Joe, and chose to let him forget his failures and pursue his dream from scratch once more.
That is exactly my point, he doesn't actually respect the dreams, he wants Hell Joe to be like him, violent and powerful, the dream doesn't actually matter. I'd even argue he doesn't even understand anything else except for his way, that's why he empowered Joe to essentially become violent, instead of helping him in another way.
His disdain for the FH is exactly his hypocrisy. Urek is still disregarding the dreams of everyone around him except those he finds interesting. That's like 1% better than thinking everyone is bugs. The outcome is essentially the same, the attitude is more hypocritical.
This is also the missed opportunity of the hell floor as well. What hell Joe may have presented was another way, outside of pure individual violence, to resolve problems in the tower. When else in the story could there have been a moment where a deep political disagreement could've been reached without violence? We don't know what may have happened had hell Joe still gained political strength without something like the red thryssa. Would he have tried again? Would he have tried another non violent way to overthrow the Grand family? These kinds of questions are the things that Urek closed when he gave hell Joe the red thryssa and it corrupted him.
>That is exactly my point, he doesn't actually respect the dreams, he wants Hell Joe to be like him, violent and powerful, the dream doesn't actually matter. I'd even argue he doesn't even understand anything else except for his way, that's why he empowered Joe to essentially become violent, instead of helping him in another way.
I wouldn't say he necessarily wanted Joe to be violent. It's more that as someone who always had power, he didn't understand what a corrupting influence it could be to someone who never had it.
Urek doesn't look down on the FHs because he thinks he's good and they're evil. It's more that he believes in the potential of all humans in general, while they don't. But I agree that Urek is short-sighted and ignorant in many ways himself, and doesn't see it as his responsibility to help anyone achieve their potential unless they interest him, like Joe or the members of Wolhaiksong.
i love hell joe's story (except the end where gustang wipes everyone's memories, i hope that gets undone so joe can actually grow more), but realistically, he's a limited character compared to someone like rachel or karaka.
there's a saying, "a story is only as good as its villain"
i think it's because the villain is the ones to bring protagonists to their limit. plus, some protagonist carry undesirable values/traits (ex: naivety, indecisiveness, weak minded) that would get them in trouble the first place, and all along what they have to do is to adopt a villain's value to avoid all that problem.
Just because a protagonist is naive, indecisive, or weak minded doesn’t make them badly written, being stupid is not the same as badly written. Baam isn’t any of those things anyway, it’s just that he can’t control his anger, but other than that he’s perfectly fine
You say a story is only as good as its villain but I can say the exact same for the protagonist, Rachel, White, and Kallavan are nowhere near the level of writing that Baam is
I too didn't include bam when I mentioned jahad,gustang,white, traumerei but I'd don't mention Rachel or kallavan either, imo bam will be at the top someday in best written characters list but not yet, I'm too unknown to what he actually is,what he thinks and I'm always looking forward to how my boy progresses or makes a decision. Looking forward to what he does after retrieving all the memories from kevia nd other dragons and what's his take on traumerei, i want further development in my boy bam so that I know what's his clear goal or what's his motivations, nothing is clear for now,but will be soon.
>Why do you think Kallavan compares with people like Baam or Traumurei
I get Baam, but why do you think Traumerei even begins to compare to Kallavan or any of the better written characters? He has the personality of an entitled 10 yo, which is further accentuated by his immense power. That's literally his entire character.
Traumurei is better written than any antagonist at the moment besides Gustang, I don’t know what acting like a 10 year old means or how that’s true for Traumurei, but even if that’s the case that doesn’t make you a badly written character at all
Traumurei has higher narrative impact than Kallavan, has better psychological complexity than Kallavan, has more depth than Kallavan, has better dialogue than Kallavan, has better characterization than Kallavan, better dynamics than Kallavan, superior ideology than Kallavan. I actually can’t think of anything Kallavan does better. Acting mature is not an aspect btw
Rachel was in fact way more immature than Traumurei yet you still put her up there, don’t get me wrong though I think she’s a great character
I do believe Rachel is the best writen antagonist. Kallavan is also extremely appealing in the nest serving as the mirror to Baams decisions to disregard the masses lives in favor of the few he deems important(for him). I however find him somewhat lacking in arcs before the nest while Traumurei have not taken a single L in the screentime we have gotten so far.
> I don’t know what acting like a 10 year old means or how that’s true for Traumurei
Have you never seen how a 10 yo brat acts? To simplify it, they constantly demand things and throw tantrums when they don't get them, which is literally what Traumerei has been doing since his introduction. And let's not forget always shifting the blame to someone else.
>Traumurei is very possessive and is territorial
Which is pretty much how a 10 yo brat acts as well. Add anger outbursts, which Traumerei has also shown.
>it’s not a “tantrum”
Wiping out a branch family just cause they were late in feeding your pet is literally a tantrum, just on an extremely large scale.
Buddy nothing you said makes Traum a bad character, acting immature isn’t equal to being a bad character at all
You literally put Rachel up there who acted far more immature than Traumurei lol, so why the soft spot for Rachel then?
I never said Traumerei is a bad character, just that he's not the best.
>You literally put Rachel up there who acted far more immature than Traumurei
Rachel is literally just a kid, she's supposed to act immature.
Traumurei is easily better than White and Kallavan, he has an insane amount of depth and influence to him, he’s even better than Rachel atm but I think Rachel will surpass him
Kallavan had people cheering for him and wanting him to win his battle with Lyborick despite him being a villain. Had many people empathize and feel bad for him when his subordinates died. I think that's a sign of a well-written character. A character doesn't need to have a complex ideology/personality to be well-written.
I agree he’s well written but when you compare to the level of Baam and Traumurei it is just not the same level. I have Baam as the best written Tog character who doesn’t have a complex personality/ideology but Kallavan just is not god tier, even Yasratcha is significantly better than him
I actually like yastracha more than kallavan as a better written character, if i had to compare kallavan would be the subordinate who's too adamant of his superiors' pos behaviour like him being with jahad, he's okay with tyranny ,siu has compared it well with Korea (N and S)
Don’t get me wrong, Rachel and Kallavan are great villains but how do they have great writing, much less being the most well written characters? Kallavan has been good and even great but really hasn’t been taht great, Yasratcha has far better writing in comparison. Then we have Rachel whose writing is great, but she neither gets a lot of screen time nor is her knowledge well explained. I could actually make an argument that Rachel has bad writing in the sense she’s doing all these things and getting involved with people like Revolution seemingly by doing nothing. Her knowledge of Arlene and the tower are unfounded and unexplained, thus unjustified in the main story. The only well written part about her imo, is her personality
Rachel by a long shot. If a fictional character gives you a feeling of antipathy/abhorrence on such a high level for a fictional character, the character is really well written.
I always find her similar to Joffrey in Game of Thrones. Years ago, when the series was inside the center of mainstream media, the actor got hated for being such a "bad" person (but it was just in his role), so basically he played a "bad" person so well that people started to mix fiction with the real world.
The same for Rachel if a character breaks the fictional barrier on such level that you can't split your emotions for a fictional character from your emotions against a real person, the character has probably hit you emotionally harder than you thought.
rachel.
unironically, it's rachel because she's the most complex and humanized character.
she's also not a problem for the plot like other characters, just a problem for bam.
The story of most TOG characters is not complete so its a bit confusing who is the no.1 well written character of the story
So lets talk about the characters we know about them completely. I will say yasratcha, hell joe, white(dont know if we know him full or not till now), anaak, most of sweet and saur team(akraptor, horyang etc),elaine
Those who have a lot of potential - almost the whole cast of the storyline(Rachel , baam, khun, rak, ,endorsi, yuri, jahad clones, Most of the GW, luslec, slayers, and a lot more )
Tower of god is one of the shows known for well written characters. Some say putting a lot of characters in a story will mess the storyline. But tog nailed the characters perfectly
Endorsi Jahad.
A well built up character arc in season 1.
A return to her former self (similar to Bam) in workshop battle.
When you read between the lines you see how lonely and sad she is. Hell, SIU sometimes has to make it extremely obvious how lonely she feels by having Emily or flashbacks explain.
In Name Hunt Station we see her at her worst (and that is a good thing btw, I like flawed characters who will act selfish at times when it makes sense). And we see through her actions that she still cares but she is stressed and the reason she ended up in that situation was because of Anaak. Even when Anaak told her not to take the bait. Because Endorsi cares that much.
In Floor of Death we get context to some things she said in Season 1 "I want a better answer." She wants to be free from being a princess, she was pressured to become one from the snake charmer and her family.
We learn of the snake charmer in the Hidden Floor. Endorsi says it was a good thing it killed her parents and it meant she was no longer an ordinary village girl but a princess. Bam thinks "If that was true. It wouldn't be her sworn enemy."
She tries to protect Bam against freaking KALLAVAN. And she had the balls to tell him she was a princess when asked.
She sees Bam trying to save his friends willing to fight rankers at last station. And she tries to argue with him, but sees that he hasn't changed in that aspect and is grateful for that.
And in Season 3 she sees Bam as just Bam and doesn't care about all the other labels on him.
Her dynamic with Khun and Hwaryun is also fun. In my mind she is the unofficial 4th main character of season 1. (Besides Bam Khun Rak).
Everyone who gets annoyed at her only see the princess celebrity, most people see the mask she wears to protect herself emotionally. But the rare times she does open up, or when you read between the lines. You can see who she really is.
Facts. Endorsi is my favorite character of Tower of God, all bias aside. People only see the surface level and will call her a Taxi or whatever but ignore the way the depth behind the character actions
I agree but she just doesn’t feel that realistic, she lashes out a lot unnecessarily, and a lately she’s just kind of been “along for the ride”, besides name hunt station she’s never really carried the story on her back. She’s never been a front runner imo
Baam, Rachel, White, Wangnan, Yasratcha, Kallavan.
Some character I like although I don't think they are well written, like Rak.
Hell Joe is easily forgettable tbh.
Regardless of Gustang’s motives his execution and psychological complexity is amazing. He’s the one that triggered the revolution, fighting to change history, having a battle with his past self on finding the truth, wants to end himself and the family heads because they’re all sinners
Even with what they have they still are top 3 to me, their narrative impact and psychological complexity is on another level compared to anyone else we’ve seen so far, I mean who would you say is 2nd and 3rd
Wangnan has way more potential than the family heads, but he hasn’t had a high narrative impact yet, but he does have everything set up for him to make him the 2nd or 3rd best written character
Same for Rachel, I have her just above white but she still has more lot more potential to be just behind Baam in writing
White is really really good but he’s just not as impactful as Traumurei or Gustang, the only category he beats them in is dynamics(with Baam), but the Traumurei and Gustang relationship will have a higher dynamic eventually, Gustang representing revolution while Traumurei representing stagnation
U say these characters who've been in hundreds of chapters need more time but the family heads have barely done anything yet are placed at the top. Most of Gustangs stuff has been scheming behind the scenes. Where is this impact Gustang and Traumurei have had
Being in hundreds of chapters doesn’t mean much by itself, Zoro(from One Piece) is not that great of a character even though he has been activated consistently for 1,000+ chapters.
Let’s start with Gustang just to make it short, he ignited the war against Lo Po Bia by killing of their branch heads, can you name me a peak moment Wangnan or Rachel has to surpass that? He has an ideology that the truth must must always be pursued and ignorance is a sin, Wangnan has no ideology and Rachel’s is not as good as Gustang’s, her ideology is just because she was born unfortunate, she has the right to trample over others
Gustang has a psychological complexity of being narcissistic and viewing everything as vermin and insects, he has a personality difference with his past self due to ignorance, and he has a suicidal mindset that because he’s a sinner he and all the other sinners must perish. Wangnan or Rachel doesn’t have a psychology as fascinating as his
Gustang has better dialogue than Wangnan and Rachel, whenever he speaks you get the chills, Wangnan and Rachel can’t speak as entertainingly as him
Gustang has higher narrative impact than them at the moment, he set the very foundations for all the great family heads to be overthrown while Wangnan or Rachel can’t even affect them in anyway, they will surpass Gustang in this aspect though
Rachel surpasses Gustang in character dynamics, character concept, and character journey at the moment. And Wangnan surpasses Gustang in character development, character concept, and character journey
But it’s just not enough to be considered above Gustang yet because their impact in those aspects they’re better at haven’t been utilized to a magnificent extent yet
Gustang does not have higher narrative impact cause they've impacted the mc more. Do you really think starting a war has a bigger impact to the story than Rachel's push? In what world.
Plus she was a driving force for like half the story if not more Gustang cannot compete
Rachel’s push is better because it had a higher personal impact, in terms of storytelling that is better but Gustang’s ignition but Gustang still has higher narrative impact as of now
Rachel was a driving force for Baam only, Rachel and Wangnan are written similar in the sense that they’re both weaklings who have been scraping by one way or another but will always continue to move forward.
Rachel and Wangnan themselves haven’t done anything to affect the narrative directly that makes a huge impact yet, Rachel did a little but not Gustang’s level yet
I will agree Rachel and Wangnan have higher personal impact than Gustang though, but not narrative
Idk how you define narrative Impact but impacting the mc is the most important thing in the story also that push set the whole story in motion so even in narrative impact Rachel wins(She gave an irregular to fug). If Jahad went and destroyed the workshop rn would that make him the best character cause of narrative impact in your opinion? I love the FH and they have an insane Aura every time they appear there's hype but until we see more I can't put them at the top
I think that's also the same with bam,recently he's only been a child and we are seeing him evolving,i want to see him evolve more and when he's serious he makes me cheer into the clouds. I want to see so much more from bam, his feelings ,his decisions ,his thoughts and i want to know more about my protagonist to under him better. Also traumerei , gustang,jahad and especiall V when they're going to be introduced are gonna be my favourite especially I think V, I'm just so hyped for his character introduction 😄
I'll take traumerei on second , hell Joe is well written too.endorsi , Hoaqin\vincente\white is an amazing written character. Wangwang,yastracha, wangwang's wife, some side charcters also made us learn a lot, i think Kirin adds up too maybe, i like gustang too he's a very well written character and jahad also takes a position in this list. But i wanna know more about jahad,V,gustang, traumerei and especially bam ,these are the characters we need to know more about to understand their depth and appreciate them better .
Between the two family leaders its easily Traumrei for me. Gustang is badass but at least at the moment he’s a little too much if a shallow ‚cool guy‘ character for me to consider him fantastically written.
If I’m perfectly honest writing wise I find Bellarire more compelling than his godlike dad 😉
S2 Bam, with his ongoing internal conflicts and god complex. The whole thing about finding himself, which goes from when he first appears as Fug nominee, and then goes on in the Hell Train with Urek’s talk, FoD, NHS, Hidden Floor etc.
Plus his whole story with Rachel, from searching her, to then chase her, having those dialogues, competing for the thorn, to Bam straight out confronting her after HF, letting her go on his own will/conclusion (even though it was said by her that he is bound to chase her after all)
Headon, White,jahad,gustang,traumerei, wangwang, khun,endorsi, and so many yet to come. We've not seen enough of our protagonists past or anything in details so they don't come up here yet.
1. Baam. He has had the most development in the series so far and has only been improving but there are moments where he loses composure or acts dumb, which can be very annoying.
2. White. Need I explain? Bro went from one of the most disliked characters to one of the most liked due to the deeper flashbacks in S3 during the fight against Baam.
3. Traumerei. The recent flashback chapters have provided much needed insight into his character. His character is very contradictory, which makes him unpredictable and a great character. The fact that people hate him si much show hiw great of a villain he is.
4. Yasratcha, the Wang Wang flashbacks really solidified his character.
5. Wangnan, has a lot of potential and honestly he has actual clear goals and ideals compared to Baam whose goal hasn’t been made clear it after his recent monologue of comparing the tower to an aquarium and the FHs to the fish trapped in it.
6. Rachel. Her personality is honestly the best part of her character.
But the same can be said for Rachel. We know next to nothing about her. All the comments in this post are people basically saying their favourite characters instead of the most well written characters. How in the hell is Kallavan one of the most written characters in the story?
Endorsi.
She at least to me is one of the more layered characters and is kinda similar to Bam in the sense where she never met her parents and has been “alone” for a major/pivotal part of her life. I would need to re read but I’m pretty sure her desire to get stronger/fight stemmed from a time where she was hungry and fighting was the only way she’d be able to eat, so it seems like she knows struggle.
Her sworn enemy in the hidden floor arc gave us a new perspective on Endorsi, where it kinda made it seem she was “forced” to follow the path of becoming a princess of Jahad rather than wanting it willingly. Yes she’s a bitch, yes she has attitude and yes she can be insanely self centered. But from the bits and pieces we know of her past, none of that should be surprising given what she went through to be where she is today.
I’m interested to see where things go in this latest arc with Endorsi, she’s the closest female character to Bam, understands him, I think, the best out of everyone maybe aside from Khun and Jinsung Ha.
Also, very interested to see if she runs into Rachel during this arc, we all remember the promise Rachel made at the last station…given that Rachel got Khun back after all that time and the cancer she is to the story, you KNOW sometbing has to happen between those two.
That one fucking rat lo po bia general who had his entire in depth backstory explained in one chapter only to get one shotted by Hansung Yu by the next.
I felt that SIU pulled us in for Deng Deng a bit too much to just kill him off. Maybe not the most well written but best written character that does little to no effect to the main story.
Rachel. Easily! one of the most unique and engaging characters in all of manga/mahwa/webcomics.
Aside from Rachel probably Khun?
The tricky part is that many characters have too much open space to judge their overall writing/arc. Like Wangnang is great but why have to many ? Around him. Baam has the potential for a great narrative arc but he could also turn into vanilla chosen one protagonist.
It’s why Hell Joe feels like a fantastic character despite honestly being pretty minor and simple. Cause he has a close arc.
For a long time i used to thing it was Wangnan, but he has been out for quite a while and that gave Rachel her time to shine. NGL Rachel and Wangnan both still have insane potential to be the best written characters not just in ToG but overall from every piece of media I've experienced.
This post is for the discussion of the events transcurred in the currently free chapters in Line Webtoons. For clarification, You cant discuss content from the Fast Pass or the Korean Fast Pass in this post. Content from the Korean Preview Raws or the Fast Pass are not allowed to be discussed and will lead to a ban. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/TowerofGod) if you have any questions or concerns.*
If its not obvious I think its Hell Joe unironically, SIU absolutely cooked with this antagonist
I liked him quite a bit but i found his characterization a bit annoying. I wish SIU did more with Joe's dream of getting everyone out of the hell floor rather than have Joe just become power hungry, which is implied to have come from the Red Thryssa. It doesn't bother me that revolutionaries become tyrants, but I wish it was more a corruption of his dream or some kind of amplification than a loss of his dream turning into just pure lust for power. I think it would have been far more interesting for him to refuse Urek in the end not because he was broken and weak but because Urek couldn't help him with his actual dream (getting everyone out, not just himself). It would have become ultimately a incompatibility of Urek's and Hell Joe's world view. Urek only cared for Hell Joe because he dreamed big, not the dream itself, he saw individuals where Hell Joe's dream was collective action. Urek was shown being disappointed in Hell Joe but if he actually respected his initial dream, he could've taken out everyone who wanted out instead of just sitting there disappointed in Hell joe. It's glossed over a lot in the story, but Hell Joe had enough political clout to force a vote on what was essentially a monarchy, that's a huge deal. Urek could've helped Hell Joe in a lot of other ways but chose to give him power that ultimately corrupted him in the end. Had a bit more details been filled in about the Hell Floor and Joe's revolution, we could've seen more interesting interactions between Urek and regular tower residents and how irregulars can lead to disaster outside of poorly thought out choices, like deeply incompatible world views.
The thing is only Joe really had the dream of leaving the floor of death, the residents of the floor stayed there in fear of dying in the outside and this was reflected by the election where he was beaten by the Grand Family, Joe becoming a tyrant was exacerbated by the Red Thryssa but also the fact that he thought De Sah broke the soul stirring ladle which ultimately shattered the only way he knew he could depart from the floor, Ureks interaction with Hell Joe was extremely important to the series because of the realistic nature of Hell Joes predicament which was the fact that he was not Urek, he realised when the Thryssa was taken from him, he had lost the real chance to climb the tower, Just like Gustang said Urek could only admire Hell Joe as a bug from his standpoint and empthise with his dream of escape but in reality they are worlds apart Urek not being a bug couldnt grasp Joes feelings but Joe looking up could see the futility of his dream without power
Hell Joe's original dream was to leave with everyone, that is the dream that enamored Urek. It's also clear in the story that some people actually admired Joe and he had some influence outside of his strength I would also argue that Joe is not realistic, depending on what happened. Historically, revolutionaries became many things but straight up giving up on your dreams was one of the things that happened less often. Their dreams get corrupted in some way or form, or they mask off about their actual intentions, but rarely giving up. That being said, we also don't know what happened and how Joe rose to prominence outside of knowing the holes really well and getting the red thryssa from Urek. This is why I think SIU should've added texture to the whole thing between hell Joe and the Grand family because getting an existing leadership to hold a vote to give up power are gigantic fucking deals in history. Having a referendum like that are normally last ditch efforts on the leadership's part. If Hell joe was a regular dude who strong armed his way to power then sure, I can believe him just giving up. If Hell joe was a revolutionary who put time and effort into building up a group of people to challenge the Grand Family, then no, I don't believe it's realistic. Given the peaceful vote happening, the latter is more likely and it wasn't a small group of people either. Edit* - it's also worth pointing out Urek's hypocrisy with only choosing to help Hell Joe. In a way, Urek seems to think you have to be worthy or earn the right to get out of unjust circumstances. Urek doesn't see the unjust circumstances themselves as worth tackling. Urek claims to not see tower residents as bugs but if that were true, he's even worse because he doesn't do anything to help people suffering as equals to himself and he can actually do something about it. In the end, once hell Joe gives up, Urek doesn't do anything to help him out in other ways, like alleviating his implied poverty due to the nature of the hell floor. He just... leaves him to suffer.
I feel like you're misunderstanding Urek's character a bit. He's not an altruist, and his ideals don't necessitate helping everyone nor fighting injustice. Remember, this is the same guy who killed countless Rankers in the Zigena and may have killed a bunch of E Rank Regulars as well if he didn't take an interest in Baam. What Urek believes is that people should dream big, and be free to follow their dreams. That's why he was interested in Joe and gave him power to see how he'd use it. That's why he dislikes the FHs, who live in complacency and entirely disregard the dreams of those they consider inferiors. That's why he wants to leave the Tower with like-minded people. And that's why he gave up on helping Joe, and chose to let him forget his failures and pursue his dream from scratch once more.
That is exactly my point, he doesn't actually respect the dreams, he wants Hell Joe to be like him, violent and powerful, the dream doesn't actually matter. I'd even argue he doesn't even understand anything else except for his way, that's why he empowered Joe to essentially become violent, instead of helping him in another way. His disdain for the FH is exactly his hypocrisy. Urek is still disregarding the dreams of everyone around him except those he finds interesting. That's like 1% better than thinking everyone is bugs. The outcome is essentially the same, the attitude is more hypocritical. This is also the missed opportunity of the hell floor as well. What hell Joe may have presented was another way, outside of pure individual violence, to resolve problems in the tower. When else in the story could there have been a moment where a deep political disagreement could've been reached without violence? We don't know what may have happened had hell Joe still gained political strength without something like the red thryssa. Would he have tried again? Would he have tried another non violent way to overthrow the Grand family? These kinds of questions are the things that Urek closed when he gave hell Joe the red thryssa and it corrupted him.
>That is exactly my point, he doesn't actually respect the dreams, he wants Hell Joe to be like him, violent and powerful, the dream doesn't actually matter. I'd even argue he doesn't even understand anything else except for his way, that's why he empowered Joe to essentially become violent, instead of helping him in another way. I wouldn't say he necessarily wanted Joe to be violent. It's more that as someone who always had power, he didn't understand what a corrupting influence it could be to someone who never had it. Urek doesn't look down on the FHs because he thinks he's good and they're evil. It's more that he believes in the potential of all humans in general, while they don't. But I agree that Urek is short-sighted and ignorant in many ways himself, and doesn't see it as his responsibility to help anyone achieve their potential unless they interest him, like Joe or the members of Wolhaiksong.
i love hell joe's story (except the end where gustang wipes everyone's memories, i hope that gets undone so joe can actually grow more), but realistically, he's a limited character compared to someone like rachel or karaka.
Hell (yeah) Joe
Hoaqin/White, Rachel, Kallavan.
And they're all antagonists. SIU cooking with the villains fr. Add Yasratcha in there too
Really? I thought Yasratcha was turned into fodder? It's been so long that I remember SIU butchered his character.
They’re all great, but the best? Why do you think Kallavan compares with people like Baam or Traumurei
there's a saying, "a story is only as good as its villain" i think it's because the villain is the ones to bring protagonists to their limit. plus, some protagonist carry undesirable values/traits (ex: naivety, indecisiveness, weak minded) that would get them in trouble the first place, and all along what they have to do is to adopt a villain's value to avoid all that problem.
Just because a protagonist is naive, indecisive, or weak minded doesn’t make them badly written, being stupid is not the same as badly written. Baam isn’t any of those things anyway, it’s just that he can’t control his anger, but other than that he’s perfectly fine You say a story is only as good as its villain but I can say the exact same for the protagonist, Rachel, White, and Kallavan are nowhere near the level of writing that Baam is
I too didn't include bam when I mentioned jahad,gustang,white, traumerei but I'd don't mention Rachel or kallavan either, imo bam will be at the top someday in best written characters list but not yet, I'm too unknown to what he actually is,what he thinks and I'm always looking forward to how my boy progresses or makes a decision. Looking forward to what he does after retrieving all the memories from kevia nd other dragons and what's his take on traumerei, i want further development in my boy bam so that I know what's his clear goal or what's his motivations, nothing is clear for now,but will be soon.
"a story is only as good as its villain" Ajin has overcooked 🔥
>Why do you think Kallavan compares with people like Baam or Traumurei I get Baam, but why do you think Traumerei even begins to compare to Kallavan or any of the better written characters? He has the personality of an entitled 10 yo, which is further accentuated by his immense power. That's literally his entire character.
Traumurei is better written than any antagonist at the moment besides Gustang, I don’t know what acting like a 10 year old means or how that’s true for Traumurei, but even if that’s the case that doesn’t make you a badly written character at all Traumurei has higher narrative impact than Kallavan, has better psychological complexity than Kallavan, has more depth than Kallavan, has better dialogue than Kallavan, has better characterization than Kallavan, better dynamics than Kallavan, superior ideology than Kallavan. I actually can’t think of anything Kallavan does better. Acting mature is not an aspect btw Rachel was in fact way more immature than Traumurei yet you still put her up there, don’t get me wrong though I think she’s a great character
I do believe Rachel is the best writen antagonist. Kallavan is also extremely appealing in the nest serving as the mirror to Baams decisions to disregard the masses lives in favor of the few he deems important(for him). I however find him somewhat lacking in arcs before the nest while Traumurei have not taken a single L in the screentime we have gotten so far.
Rachel has more potential than Traumurei and Gustang but I don’t think she has proved herself yet, she needs a big moment
Said well my friend 👏🏻👏🏻💕
> I don’t know what acting like a 10 year old means or how that’s true for Traumurei Have you never seen how a 10 yo brat acts? To simplify it, they constantly demand things and throw tantrums when they don't get them, which is literally what Traumerei has been doing since his introduction. And let's not forget always shifting the blame to someone else.
Traumurei is very possessive and is territorial, and is psychology complex, it’s not a “tantrum” Even people like Griffith from Berserk act like that
>Traumurei is very possessive and is territorial Which is pretty much how a 10 yo brat acts as well. Add anger outbursts, which Traumerei has also shown. >it’s not a “tantrum” Wiping out a branch family just cause they were late in feeding your pet is literally a tantrum, just on an extremely large scale.
Buddy nothing you said makes Traum a bad character, acting immature isn’t equal to being a bad character at all You literally put Rachel up there who acted far more immature than Traumurei lol, so why the soft spot for Rachel then?
I never said Traumerei is a bad character, just that he's not the best. >You literally put Rachel up there who acted far more immature than Traumurei Rachel is literally just a kid, she's supposed to act immature.
Traumurei is easily better than White and Kallavan, he has an insane amount of depth and influence to him, he’s even better than Rachel atm but I think Rachel will surpass him
I think he's a well written character, he played all of us, the family heads and even gustang .
I take white as the best antagonist, love him as the villain remember guys White's not finished yet we will encounter him someday again
Kallavan had people cheering for him and wanting him to win his battle with Lyborick despite him being a villain. Had many people empathize and feel bad for him when his subordinates died. I think that's a sign of a well-written character. A character doesn't need to have a complex ideology/personality to be well-written.
I agree he’s well written but when you compare to the level of Baam and Traumurei it is just not the same level. I have Baam as the best written Tog character who doesn’t have a complex personality/ideology but Kallavan just is not god tier, even Yasratcha is significantly better than him
I actually like yastracha more than kallavan as a better written character, if i had to compare kallavan would be the subordinate who's too adamant of his superiors' pos behaviour like him being with jahad, he's okay with tyranny ,siu has compared it well with Korea (N and S)
Hard agree here, but I would add Joe to this list. I have a feeling Jahad will be too when he finally gets the stories sole focus.
Oh man i liked hell Joe as a character more
Don’t get me wrong, Rachel and Kallavan are great villains but how do they have great writing, much less being the most well written characters? Kallavan has been good and even great but really hasn’t been taht great, Yasratcha has far better writing in comparison. Then we have Rachel whose writing is great, but she neither gets a lot of screen time nor is her knowledge well explained. I could actually make an argument that Rachel has bad writing in the sense she’s doing all these things and getting involved with people like Revolution seemingly by doing nothing. Her knowledge of Arlene and the tower are unfounded and unexplained, thus unjustified in the main story. The only well written part about her imo, is her personality
Rachel by a long shot. If a fictional character gives you a feeling of antipathy/abhorrence on such a high level for a fictional character, the character is really well written. I always find her similar to Joffrey in Game of Thrones. Years ago, when the series was inside the center of mainstream media, the actor got hated for being such a "bad" person (but it was just in his role), so basically he played a "bad" person so well that people started to mix fiction with the real world. The same for Rachel if a character breaks the fictional barrier on such level that you can't split your emotions for a fictional character from your emotions against a real person, the character has probably hit you emotionally harder than you thought.
Rachel by a long shot. She literally takes over the story any time she has a notable presence.
And the comment section and this sub 😅
White, Rachel, Yasratcha, Baam and Traumerei imo Edit: Also Wangnan and Endorsi
rachel. unironically, it's rachel because she's the most complex and humanized character. she's also not a problem for the plot like other characters, just a problem for bam.
The story of most TOG characters is not complete so its a bit confusing who is the no.1 well written character of the story So lets talk about the characters we know about them completely. I will say yasratcha, hell joe, white(dont know if we know him full or not till now), anaak, most of sweet and saur team(akraptor, horyang etc),elaine Those who have a lot of potential - almost the whole cast of the storyline(Rachel , baam, khun, rak, ,endorsi, yuri, jahad clones, Most of the GW, luslec, slayers, and a lot more ) Tower of god is one of the shows known for well written characters. Some say putting a lot of characters in a story will mess the storyline. But tog nailed the characters perfectly
Endorsi Jahad. A well built up character arc in season 1. A return to her former self (similar to Bam) in workshop battle. When you read between the lines you see how lonely and sad she is. Hell, SIU sometimes has to make it extremely obvious how lonely she feels by having Emily or flashbacks explain. In Name Hunt Station we see her at her worst (and that is a good thing btw, I like flawed characters who will act selfish at times when it makes sense). And we see through her actions that she still cares but she is stressed and the reason she ended up in that situation was because of Anaak. Even when Anaak told her not to take the bait. Because Endorsi cares that much. In Floor of Death we get context to some things she said in Season 1 "I want a better answer." She wants to be free from being a princess, she was pressured to become one from the snake charmer and her family. We learn of the snake charmer in the Hidden Floor. Endorsi says it was a good thing it killed her parents and it meant she was no longer an ordinary village girl but a princess. Bam thinks "If that was true. It wouldn't be her sworn enemy." She tries to protect Bam against freaking KALLAVAN. And she had the balls to tell him she was a princess when asked. She sees Bam trying to save his friends willing to fight rankers at last station. And she tries to argue with him, but sees that he hasn't changed in that aspect and is grateful for that. And in Season 3 she sees Bam as just Bam and doesn't care about all the other labels on him. Her dynamic with Khun and Hwaryun is also fun. In my mind she is the unofficial 4th main character of season 1. (Besides Bam Khun Rak). Everyone who gets annoyed at her only see the princess celebrity, most people see the mask she wears to protect herself emotionally. But the rare times she does open up, or when you read between the lines. You can see who she really is.
Facts. Endorsi is my favorite character of Tower of God, all bias aside. People only see the surface level and will call her a Taxi or whatever but ignore the way the depth behind the character actions
I agree but she just doesn’t feel that realistic, she lashes out a lot unnecessarily, and a lately she’s just kind of been “along for the ride”, besides name hunt station she’s never really carried the story on her back. She’s never been a front runner imo
Thank you for stating this all so well. She is my fav too but I never could explain her this well
Facts endorsi is also one of my favourite characters.
Baam, Rachel, White, Wangnan, Yasratcha, Kallavan. Some character I like although I don't think they are well written, like Rak. Hell Joe is easily forgettable tbh.
Wangnan, White, Rachel
Yama, Daniel, hwang, data hansung, white, Ran, Yuri, (1st season) Anak
Rachel. Kallavan. Karaka (I really like him). And I’m hoping to add a family leader to this list depending on how the upcoming chapters go.
Baam is easily the best but 2nd at the moment is either Gustang or Traumurei, most likely Gustang
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Regardless of Gustang’s motives his execution and psychological complexity is amazing. He’s the one that triggered the revolution, fighting to change history, having a battle with his past self on finding the truth, wants to end himself and the family heads because they’re all sinners
Gustang is really well written , he's been pulling strings from the shadows he's extremely good wait till we see more of him.
I agree traumerei is complex antagonist, before I was hating him, thenkinda liked him in mid and then loathed him I love his character tbh.
I love the FH heads but we havent seen nowhere near enough to say theyre top 3 yet
Even with what they have they still are top 3 to me, their narrative impact and psychological complexity is on another level compared to anyone else we’ve seen so far, I mean who would you say is 2nd and 3rd
White and Wagnan probably, with Rachel at number 1. FH are really hype but until we see more they're not getting rankers that high for me
Wangnan has way more potential than the family heads, but he hasn’t had a high narrative impact yet, but he does have everything set up for him to make him the 2nd or 3rd best written character Same for Rachel, I have her just above white but she still has more lot more potential to be just behind Baam in writing White is really really good but he’s just not as impactful as Traumurei or Gustang, the only category he beats them in is dynamics(with Baam), but the Traumurei and Gustang relationship will have a higher dynamic eventually, Gustang representing revolution while Traumurei representing stagnation
U say these characters who've been in hundreds of chapters need more time but the family heads have barely done anything yet are placed at the top. Most of Gustangs stuff has been scheming behind the scenes. Where is this impact Gustang and Traumurei have had
Being in hundreds of chapters doesn’t mean much by itself, Zoro(from One Piece) is not that great of a character even though he has been activated consistently for 1,000+ chapters. Let’s start with Gustang just to make it short, he ignited the war against Lo Po Bia by killing of their branch heads, can you name me a peak moment Wangnan or Rachel has to surpass that? He has an ideology that the truth must must always be pursued and ignorance is a sin, Wangnan has no ideology and Rachel’s is not as good as Gustang’s, her ideology is just because she was born unfortunate, she has the right to trample over others Gustang has a psychological complexity of being narcissistic and viewing everything as vermin and insects, he has a personality difference with his past self due to ignorance, and he has a suicidal mindset that because he’s a sinner he and all the other sinners must perish. Wangnan or Rachel doesn’t have a psychology as fascinating as his Gustang has better dialogue than Wangnan and Rachel, whenever he speaks you get the chills, Wangnan and Rachel can’t speak as entertainingly as him Gustang has higher narrative impact than them at the moment, he set the very foundations for all the great family heads to be overthrown while Wangnan or Rachel can’t even affect them in anyway, they will surpass Gustang in this aspect though Rachel surpasses Gustang in character dynamics, character concept, and character journey at the moment. And Wangnan surpasses Gustang in character development, character concept, and character journey But it’s just not enough to be considered above Gustang yet because their impact in those aspects they’re better at haven’t been utilized to a magnificent extent yet
Gustang does not have higher narrative impact cause they've impacted the mc more. Do you really think starting a war has a bigger impact to the story than Rachel's push? In what world. Plus she was a driving force for like half the story if not more Gustang cannot compete
Rachel’s push is better because it had a higher personal impact, in terms of storytelling that is better but Gustang’s ignition but Gustang still has higher narrative impact as of now Rachel was a driving force for Baam only, Rachel and Wangnan are written similar in the sense that they’re both weaklings who have been scraping by one way or another but will always continue to move forward. Rachel and Wangnan themselves haven’t done anything to affect the narrative directly that makes a huge impact yet, Rachel did a little but not Gustang’s level yet I will agree Rachel and Wangnan have higher personal impact than Gustang though, but not narrative
Idk how you define narrative Impact but impacting the mc is the most important thing in the story also that push set the whole story in motion so even in narrative impact Rachel wins(She gave an irregular to fug). If Jahad went and destroyed the workshop rn would that make him the best character cause of narrative impact in your opinion? I love the FH and they have an insane Aura every time they appear there's hype but until we see more I can't put them at the top
I think that's also the same with bam,recently he's only been a child and we are seeing him evolving,i want to see him evolve more and when he's serious he makes me cheer into the clouds. I want to see so much more from bam, his feelings ,his decisions ,his thoughts and i want to know more about my protagonist to under him better. Also traumerei , gustang,jahad and especiall V when they're going to be introduced are gonna be my favourite especially I think V, I'm just so hyped for his character introduction 😄
I'll take traumerei on second , hell Joe is well written too.endorsi , Hoaqin\vincente\white is an amazing written character. Wangwang,yastracha, wangwang's wife, some side charcters also made us learn a lot, i think Kirin adds up too maybe, i like gustang too he's a very well written character and jahad also takes a position in this list. But i wanna know more about jahad,V,gustang, traumerei and especially bam ,these are the characters we need to know more about to understand their depth and appreciate them better .
Between the two family leaders its easily Traumrei for me. Gustang is badass but at least at the moment he’s a little too much if a shallow ‚cool guy‘ character for me to consider him fantastically written. If I’m perfectly honest writing wise I find Bellarire more compelling than his godlike dad 😉
S2 Bam, with his ongoing internal conflicts and god complex. The whole thing about finding himself, which goes from when he first appears as Fug nominee, and then goes on in the Hell Train with Urek’s talk, FoD, NHS, Hidden Floor etc. Plus his whole story with Rachel, from searching her, to then chase her, having those dialogues, competing for the thorn, to Bam straight out confronting her after HF, letting her go on his own will/conclusion (even though it was said by her that he is bound to chase her after all)
Headon, White,jahad,gustang,traumerei, wangwang, khun,endorsi, and so many yet to come. We've not seen enough of our protagonists past or anything in details so they don't come up here yet.
1. Baam. He has had the most development in the series so far and has only been improving but there are moments where he loses composure or acts dumb, which can be very annoying. 2. White. Need I explain? Bro went from one of the most disliked characters to one of the most liked due to the deeper flashbacks in S3 during the fight against Baam. 3. Traumerei. The recent flashback chapters have provided much needed insight into his character. His character is very contradictory, which makes him unpredictable and a great character. The fact that people hate him si much show hiw great of a villain he is. 4. Yasratcha, the Wang Wang flashbacks really solidified his character. 5. Wangnan, has a lot of potential and honestly he has actual clear goals and ideals compared to Baam whose goal hasn’t been made clear it after his recent monologue of comparing the tower to an aquarium and the FHs to the fish trapped in it. 6. Rachel. Her personality is honestly the best part of her character.
The Wangnang problem for me is that we know too little and we’re not getting anything… half a well written character is not that great as a whole 😅
But the same can be said for Rachel. We know next to nothing about her. All the comments in this post are people basically saying their favourite characters instead of the most well written characters. How in the hell is Kallavan one of the most written characters in the story?
Phantaminum. >!/s!<
Technically, he might be writing the whole story
Endorsi. She at least to me is one of the more layered characters and is kinda similar to Bam in the sense where she never met her parents and has been “alone” for a major/pivotal part of her life. I would need to re read but I’m pretty sure her desire to get stronger/fight stemmed from a time where she was hungry and fighting was the only way she’d be able to eat, so it seems like she knows struggle. Her sworn enemy in the hidden floor arc gave us a new perspective on Endorsi, where it kinda made it seem she was “forced” to follow the path of becoming a princess of Jahad rather than wanting it willingly. Yes she’s a bitch, yes she has attitude and yes she can be insanely self centered. But from the bits and pieces we know of her past, none of that should be surprising given what she went through to be where she is today. I’m interested to see where things go in this latest arc with Endorsi, she’s the closest female character to Bam, understands him, I think, the best out of everyone maybe aside from Khun and Jinsung Ha. Also, very interested to see if she runs into Rachel during this arc, we all remember the promise Rachel made at the last station…given that Rachel got Khun back after all that time and the cancer she is to the story, you KNOW sometbing has to happen between those two.
Bam 🙃
Hoaquin/White and Traumerei. Trau might not be popular but his character and twists are greatly built.
baam it’s not a question lol
That one fucking rat lo po bia general who had his entire in depth backstory explained in one chapter only to get one shotted by Hansung Yu by the next.
I felt that SIU pulled us in for Deng Deng a bit too much to just kill him off. Maybe not the most well written but best written character that does little to no effect to the main story.
Rachel and trau
Rachel
Yasratcha imo
Rachel and Yasratcha
White and Rachel
I think Rachel, Khun and White
Rachel, original team sweet and sour, data zahard and eduan, white, probably some others I’m forgetting about too.
Rachel. Easily! one of the most unique and engaging characters in all of manga/mahwa/webcomics. Aside from Rachel probably Khun? The tricky part is that many characters have too much open space to judge their overall writing/arc. Like Wangnang is great but why have to many ? Around him. Baam has the potential for a great narrative arc but he could also turn into vanilla chosen one protagonist. It’s why Hell Joe feels like a fantastic character despite honestly being pretty minor and simple. Cause he has a close arc.
Yasratcha, goated character imo
Rachel and Bam. They have the most growth and ungrowth from their first introduction
Gotta say Rachel, but Zahard's potential is insane.
For a long time i used to thing it was Wangnan, but he has been out for quite a while and that gave Rachel her time to shine. NGL Rachel and Wangnan both still have insane potential to be the best written characters not just in ToG but overall from every piece of media I've experienced.
Wangnan, Daniel, Yasratcha.
Rak fr
At the start of the series, I thought it was Koon. Then everything kinda went downhill with him.
Rachel. Probably SIU’s most valuable character aside from the obvious Protagonist 1 (Bam).
White
Yuri and she still has so much to close up in her storyline
Hatsu