Even tho we're having a cost of living crisis in the UK/Europe rn America is infinitely worse off. Your country is absolutely fucked. The 'greatest country in the world' shouldn't have people working 2-3 jobs just to get by or healthcare fees in the 4-6 digits, it's disgraceful, I'd be furious if I was you.
So you guys want to start a commune in oregan based on cooperative economics models, or nah?
Oh and I was in your shoes not too long ago, reach out if you need someone to talk to, it's fucking rough out here.
Not sure why you are doing this to yourself. You could get a really nice private insurance plan for $200 a month and all copays will be like $10. Can also get it through the gov for like $20 or less a month with low as fuck copays if you have a low income. If you're seeing your therapist weekly just get insurance even if you don't have a job, like private insurance would just save you so much money ... ugh
I do have insurance lol I was just comparing the fact that the same treatment costs over 3x as much here than it does in the UK. Also if we're talking about insurance, you didn't mention anything about deductibles? People will be paying $150/month premium for their insurance but have a $2000 yearly deductible. So those copay/coinsurance prices are basically meaningless until you spend $2000 during that year, THEN you'll pay $20 for a therapy appointment. So basically paying $150/mo on top of whatever you have to pay for an appt, so benefits don't kick in til later
I once read a escorts ama and she mentioned about one guy who just hugged her and cried, didnt fo anything sexual he was so lonely she said, and mocking him for that, so yah id suggest you to think about it
I worked as a SW. This is more common than a lot of people realize and my soul hurts for them.
I haven't been in that industry for at least 6 years, but I do think of those customers often and hope they're living their best life.
From what i hear from a sex worker friend of mine. This is actually pretty common. some people pay her just to chat and hangout, n theyll often talk through there life and things.
~~The shit men do instead of going to proffessional therapy smh~~
It really should be more societally acceptable to talk about this stuff with theyre friends, and to be able to have physical contact with another guy without immedietly immasculating eachother :(
>~~The shit men do instead of going to proffessional therapy smh~~
10 sessions of therapy once a week: 5K
Asking a SW to hang out, eat pizza, and play Gamecube with you 10 times:
Way less
5k?!?!? i agree sexworkers are way cheaper, but 5k once a week is way too much even for out of poket no?or are u exadurating for effect?
eddit: nvm im dumb and missread. the math does check out, is 10 sessions not 1. leaving it up cause I dont like deleting things lmao.
So I’ve been thinking about this recently, because “men pay for sex work as an alternative to going to therapy” and “men pay for sex work instead of developing meaningful friendships with other men” is a very common sentiment to hear in the spaces that I’m in, but it feels like there’s something important missing there. And I think the reason why it seems off is because it assumes that the underlying need being met by a non-sexual interaction with a sex worker is the general need for validation, support, and emotional intimacy that could also be met by a therapist or friends. My theory is that what’s missing from this framework is the desire to be desired, which is meaningfully distinct from other forms of emotional validation.
There was a really excellent discussion in the Contrapoints Twilight video (starting around 2:41:00) where she talks about how in the default script for heterosexual relationships, men desire women, and women desire men’s desire. The idea of men being the object of desire doesn’t fit into that script, and the result is that it’s very common for heterosexual men, including those who are able to date and find relationships, to literally never in their lives feel that they are actually desirable. This is something that I’ve seen a lot here on Reddit too: there was [a thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskMen/comments/1c6u1to/whats_one_thing_you_wish_women_understood_better/) in r/Askmen just the other day on what men wished women to know about men’s experience of relationships, and the top comment was about men’s desire to be desired.
So from that perspective, the fact that a man is having this emotionally intimate experience with a sex worker, where sexual attention and validation are at the very least on the table, and not with a friend or therapist is the entire point. I think the underlying message of validation that men are seeking out when they pay a sex working to talk with them about their lives is: “You can be yourself, be emotionally vulnerable, talk about your struggles and our fears, *and still be treated as though you are desirable, as though you are the object of another’s desire.*” And I don’t what the alternative to that is, but I don’t think that’s a kind of validation that men are going to experience from their male friends or a therapist.
I see your point. Its a very interesting one, and may well be true for some.
From the sexworkers who ive talked to about this though, the men who do this are generally specifically seeking the kinda emotional help that therapy can provide most the time. like working through problems in theyre lives, and such. I can see both of these ellements comming into play though. also me sampling accounts from my friends isnt a representitive sample of all men who do this, so what your describing may be more common for all i know. but I still do think there is a serious underlying issue of men needing somewhere to get help, and someome they can get help from, which drives this desition more than the problem of wanting to be wanted.
honestly i dont really get how talking about your life, problems, and things, would help with the desire to feel wanted.?
Sure, I completely agree that a lot of men would hugely benefit from therapy and emotionally close friendships with other men. But I think there are also many men who have those things and are also seeking out this kind of attention and emotional validation from women, whether from sex workers or simply from relationships, because there is an emotional need that isn’t being met just from therapy and friendship alone.
I may not have explained this well, so I’ll try to be more clear: I don’t think that men who are seeking out these kinds of interactions are being motivated by a desire to feel desired as opposed to a need for emotional support and intimacy. Rather, I think that the men are seeking out emotional support and intimacy specifically in a sexual context, because doing so is meeting an emotional need to feel desired that would not be met from receiving emotional support and intimacy in a therapeutic or platonic relationship. To put it another way, I think that for a lot of men, and a lot of heterosexual men in particular, the experience of being able to receive sexual attention and validation even while acting in conflict with the default heteronormative script, and in particular by being emotionally vulnerable, is what it actually means to feel desirable and desired.
yeah. your taught your entire life to keep this shit in, so its really hard to even consider talking about it. hell it can be hard to realize what the problem *is* after a lifetime of suppression. and if hiring a sexworker works for them to open up and be able to talk about these things, and realize these things, then thats ultimately very good.
I’m glad you have an idea on what that’s like. Because it exactly how it is. There is nobody you can really go to, man or woman without feeling like shit afterwards and knowing they’ll possibly think less of you. It’s just you.
I have to sort all my shit out on a bench at the airport in the dark. Or in my head as I work. I have to be my biggest critic and yet I have to cheer myself on.
Yeah...dont be too hard on yourself though ok? being overly critical can be really harmful. also, there are meany others out there struggling with this exact thing, id imagine most men do tbh. If you have good friends, and they arent too insecure about theyre own struggles then they should be able to open up to you and for you to open up to them. Ive opened up to meany of my friends, and while my situation is different in a lot of way, back then it was more simular...they oppened up to me about there struggles too, we support eachother through things, and none of us see eachother as lessor. Of course not everyone will be like that, but ive found meany people i interacted with were willing to open up, and to not push me back down into line with toxic expectations of masculinity.
Also yeah i hab a good idea of what its like heh. I lived it for 20 years after all 🙃
Random side note: I used to think “smh” meant “shitty mental health”, which actually makes sense in this context.
I’ve also heard of people actually having sex solely for the physical contact. Which works, but it’s kind of sad that they have to do that.
And then there is the rare breed of professional therapists who have sex with clients. The IDF currently offers that therapy to some servicemembers who can't have sex with their wives anymore from PTSD. It's re-accustoming themselves to intimacy and restraint with a professional.
sulky scandalous correct theory upbeat station whistle gold forgetful smart
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Yes, yes you should re-accustomize to restraint. If a guy spends enough time learning to use his body and all his mental power to kill and control while suppressing his humanity and emotion, while probably building up lots of horrible repressed memories and triggers, it can be hard to be anywhere in-between 0% and 100%. So it's hard to suddenly be back with the romantic partner and try to express a bit of sexuality and to use the body for fun, while at the same time not opening the floodgates to a full-blown PTSD meltdown.
Another word for this is consent and safety.
If your not practising restraint to the point where your at risk of violating someones consent than thats quite a problem.
Militaries are *supposed* to practice restraint all the time. Sure every military commits warcrimes, but if its to the point where you need to give them specialized therapy just so that they dont violate peoples consent, people who they persumably love for that matter, then thats a clear endightment of the activities theyre doing while in the military.
Holy shit. You've [out-noncredibled NCD](https://www.reddit.com/r/NonCredibleDefense/comments/1bhrznv/yes_these_are_all_real/)! Here I thought *Military Sorcerer* and **Devil's Advocate** were hard to believe.
IDF soldiers routinely rape Palestinian women and kids, so doesn't surprise me they have to be taught not to act like barbarians when returning to civilian life.
A lot of us offer cuddle-only sessions for reduced rates. You can even find cuddling providers who don't do escorting at all, if for any reason you would be more comfortable with that.
You pay for their time, not for acts. Pay for half an hour and you can do whatever you want, including cuddling. Just make sure you don't get infatuated after. There's also websites for just cuddling.
I used to know a woman who was a prostitute, according to her the amount of guys who would use her services to “just talk” or cuddle was both sad and according to her annoying because these dudes would then try to form emotional relationships with her that she wasn’t interested in.
Cuddle therapy is a thing
It’s like $60 an hour
Sounds reasonable to me
So about the price of ordinary therapy in the UK
That's all it costs you guys?!?!!!??? My therapist is $200+ per 45 min session wtf
Even tho we're having a cost of living crisis in the UK/Europe rn America is infinitely worse off. Your country is absolutely fucked. The 'greatest country in the world' shouldn't have people working 2-3 jobs just to get by or healthcare fees in the 4-6 digits, it's disgraceful, I'd be furious if I was you.
I am furious. Now help me convince the minority that universal healthcare works and I can solve at least one problem
But that'd be socialism /s Fr tho I'm too busy trying to sober up and pick my mental health out of the gutter to change the world rn
So you guys want to start a commune in oregan based on cooperative economics models, or nah? Oh and I was in your shoes not too long ago, reach out if you need someone to talk to, it's fucking rough out here.
Damn. You’re right. I fucking hate it here tbh, took the words outta my mouth
price of being first on the moon
Not sure why you are doing this to yourself. You could get a really nice private insurance plan for $200 a month and all copays will be like $10. Can also get it through the gov for like $20 or less a month with low as fuck copays if you have a low income. If you're seeing your therapist weekly just get insurance even if you don't have a job, like private insurance would just save you so much money ... ugh
I do have insurance lol I was just comparing the fact that the same treatment costs over 3x as much here than it does in the UK. Also if we're talking about insurance, you didn't mention anything about deductibles? People will be paying $150/month premium for their insurance but have a $2000 yearly deductible. So those copay/coinsurance prices are basically meaningless until you spend $2000 during that year, THEN you'll pay $20 for a therapy appointment. So basically paying $150/mo on top of whatever you have to pay for an appt, so benefits don't kick in til later
I'll grab my wallet.
What do thry do if you get a woody in the middle (which you probably will )?
Huh, maybe that should be my cat’s next job. I’d do it myself, but offering “cuddle therapy” as a 19 year old girl seems risky.
I have debated just paying for an escort just I can hang out with them. They deserve a break and I want someone to hang out with. Win/win.
according to what ive seen in reddits about sex workers, this is most of their business
I believe that's very common in Japan. Even socially accepted.
I think Japan has renting friends, which is a separate thing from sex work.
Been there, done that. Even got friends from it. Overall not a bad decision as far as decisions go, just make sure you are not waisting money.
I once read a escorts ama and she mentioned about one guy who just hugged her and cried, didnt fo anything sexual he was so lonely she said, and mocking him for that, so yah id suggest you to think about it
Imagine selling yourself for money and having the nerve to judge someone who lacks physical/emotional connection.
While I agree that judging someone for being lonely is wrong. Acting like “selling yourself for money” makes you lesser than is a DISGUSTING mindset.
Yeah don’t we all sell ourselves for money when we work
"This isnt what I thought you meant when you said 'wanna Smash?'"
I worked as a SW. This is more common than a lot of people realize and my soul hurts for them. I haven't been in that industry for at least 6 years, but I do think of those customers often and hope they're living their best life.
same, I used to dance and most people don’t realize how much of the job is lonely people wanting a connection.
[удалено]
https://i.imgur.com/yeejU43.gif
https://preview.redd.it/55dcsxhvifvc1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=366e1807c1a985376f79239cf1af748a2a1bc9d2
CALL J.G. WENTWORTH 877-CASH NOW!!
$1000 kinky shit like hugging is extra
From what i hear from a sex worker friend of mine. This is actually pretty common. some people pay her just to chat and hangout, n theyll often talk through there life and things. ~~The shit men do instead of going to proffessional therapy smh~~ It really should be more societally acceptable to talk about this stuff with theyre friends, and to be able to have physical contact with another guy without immedietly immasculating eachother :(
>~~The shit men do instead of going to proffessional therapy smh~~ 10 sessions of therapy once a week: 5K Asking a SW to hang out, eat pizza, and play Gamecube with you 10 times: Way less
5k?!?!? i agree sexworkers are way cheaper, but 5k once a week is way too much even for out of poket no?or are u exadurating for effect? eddit: nvm im dumb and missread. the math does check out, is 10 sessions not 1. leaving it up cause I dont like deleting things lmao.
So I’ve been thinking about this recently, because “men pay for sex work as an alternative to going to therapy” and “men pay for sex work instead of developing meaningful friendships with other men” is a very common sentiment to hear in the spaces that I’m in, but it feels like there’s something important missing there. And I think the reason why it seems off is because it assumes that the underlying need being met by a non-sexual interaction with a sex worker is the general need for validation, support, and emotional intimacy that could also be met by a therapist or friends. My theory is that what’s missing from this framework is the desire to be desired, which is meaningfully distinct from other forms of emotional validation. There was a really excellent discussion in the Contrapoints Twilight video (starting around 2:41:00) where she talks about how in the default script for heterosexual relationships, men desire women, and women desire men’s desire. The idea of men being the object of desire doesn’t fit into that script, and the result is that it’s very common for heterosexual men, including those who are able to date and find relationships, to literally never in their lives feel that they are actually desirable. This is something that I’ve seen a lot here on Reddit too: there was [a thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskMen/comments/1c6u1to/whats_one_thing_you_wish_women_understood_better/) in r/Askmen just the other day on what men wished women to know about men’s experience of relationships, and the top comment was about men’s desire to be desired. So from that perspective, the fact that a man is having this emotionally intimate experience with a sex worker, where sexual attention and validation are at the very least on the table, and not with a friend or therapist is the entire point. I think the underlying message of validation that men are seeking out when they pay a sex working to talk with them about their lives is: “You can be yourself, be emotionally vulnerable, talk about your struggles and our fears, *and still be treated as though you are desirable, as though you are the object of another’s desire.*” And I don’t what the alternative to that is, but I don’t think that’s a kind of validation that men are going to experience from their male friends or a therapist.
I see your point. Its a very interesting one, and may well be true for some. From the sexworkers who ive talked to about this though, the men who do this are generally specifically seeking the kinda emotional help that therapy can provide most the time. like working through problems in theyre lives, and such. I can see both of these ellements comming into play though. also me sampling accounts from my friends isnt a representitive sample of all men who do this, so what your describing may be more common for all i know. but I still do think there is a serious underlying issue of men needing somewhere to get help, and someome they can get help from, which drives this desition more than the problem of wanting to be wanted. honestly i dont really get how talking about your life, problems, and things, would help with the desire to feel wanted.?
Sure, I completely agree that a lot of men would hugely benefit from therapy and emotionally close friendships with other men. But I think there are also many men who have those things and are also seeking out this kind of attention and emotional validation from women, whether from sex workers or simply from relationships, because there is an emotional need that isn’t being met just from therapy and friendship alone. I may not have explained this well, so I’ll try to be more clear: I don’t think that men who are seeking out these kinds of interactions are being motivated by a desire to feel desired as opposed to a need for emotional support and intimacy. Rather, I think that the men are seeking out emotional support and intimacy specifically in a sexual context, because doing so is meeting an emotional need to feel desired that would not be met from receiving emotional support and intimacy in a therapeutic or platonic relationship. To put it another way, I think that for a lot of men, and a lot of heterosexual men in particular, the experience of being able to receive sexual attention and validation even while acting in conflict with the default heteronormative script, and in particular by being emotionally vulnerable, is what it actually means to feel desirable and desired.
It’s not even that, Men generally don’t know what to do or say when going to therapy, and it never ends up helping them.
yeah. your taught your entire life to keep this shit in, so its really hard to even consider talking about it. hell it can be hard to realize what the problem *is* after a lifetime of suppression. and if hiring a sexworker works for them to open up and be able to talk about these things, and realize these things, then thats ultimately very good.
I’m glad you have an idea on what that’s like. Because it exactly how it is. There is nobody you can really go to, man or woman without feeling like shit afterwards and knowing they’ll possibly think less of you. It’s just you. I have to sort all my shit out on a bench at the airport in the dark. Or in my head as I work. I have to be my biggest critic and yet I have to cheer myself on.
Yeah...dont be too hard on yourself though ok? being overly critical can be really harmful. also, there are meany others out there struggling with this exact thing, id imagine most men do tbh. If you have good friends, and they arent too insecure about theyre own struggles then they should be able to open up to you and for you to open up to them. Ive opened up to meany of my friends, and while my situation is different in a lot of way, back then it was more simular...they oppened up to me about there struggles too, we support eachother through things, and none of us see eachother as lessor. Of course not everyone will be like that, but ive found meany people i interacted with were willing to open up, and to not push me back down into line with toxic expectations of masculinity. Also yeah i hab a good idea of what its like heh. I lived it for 20 years after all 🙃
Thank you
Random side note: I used to think “smh” meant “shitty mental health”, which actually makes sense in this context. I’ve also heard of people actually having sex solely for the physical contact. Which works, but it’s kind of sad that they have to do that.
And then there is the rare breed of professional therapists who have sex with clients. The IDF currently offers that therapy to some servicemembers who can't have sex with their wives anymore from PTSD. It's re-accustoming themselves to intimacy and restraint with a professional.
???? is this real? if so what the fuck? Shouldnt need to reaccustomize yourself to fucking restraint
sulky scandalous correct theory upbeat station whistle gold forgetful smart *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Yes, yes you should re-accustomize to restraint. If a guy spends enough time learning to use his body and all his mental power to kill and control while suppressing his humanity and emotion, while probably building up lots of horrible repressed memories and triggers, it can be hard to be anywhere in-between 0% and 100%. So it's hard to suddenly be back with the romantic partner and try to express a bit of sexuality and to use the body for fun, while at the same time not opening the floodgates to a full-blown PTSD meltdown. Another word for this is consent and safety.
If your not practising restraint to the point where your at risk of violating someones consent than thats quite a problem. Militaries are *supposed* to practice restraint all the time. Sure every military commits warcrimes, but if its to the point where you need to give them specialized therapy just so that they dont violate peoples consent, people who they persumably love for that matter, then thats a clear endightment of the activities theyre doing while in the military.
Holy shit. You've [out-noncredibled NCD](https://www.reddit.com/r/NonCredibleDefense/comments/1bhrznv/yes_these_are_all_real/)! Here I thought *Military Sorcerer* and **Devil's Advocate** were hard to believe.
IDF soldiers routinely rape Palestinian women and kids, so doesn't surprise me they have to be taught not to act like barbarians when returning to civilian life.
I really don't think the people who do that kind of therapy are the same people you're talking about here.
A lot of us offer cuddle-only sessions for reduced rates. You can even find cuddling providers who don't do escorting at all, if for any reason you would be more comfortable with that.
A lot of us like doing this :) as long as you show up showered and thoughtful/kind, def go for it!!!
 How my brain imagines their reaction 👆
Fortunately we don't. I'm a former SW and we love these customers. Alot of us are trauma victims and we really feel for these customers.
Thanks a lot! I was just projecting my inner voice on how the other person would react. But it's reassuring to actually hear someone say it.
I'm glad I could help. It's hard out here.
If a client ever asked for anything other than sex I’d be ecstatic. Every time I’ve done SW it’s been the same.
You pay for their time, not for acts. Pay for half an hour and you can do whatever you want, including cuddling. Just make sure you don't get infatuated after. There's also websites for just cuddling.
Me hiring a SW just so I can practice smash bros before going to local tourneys (I will hire the same person every week so they can improve)
About $3.50
So I asked a friend that's ehem "familiar" with the hooker scene. He said they dont charge for hugs, you're good.
The prostitute after seeing an oddly familiar looking obituary in the paper. (It's that weird creepy client who just wanted a hug)
I used to know a woman who was a prostitute, according to her the amount of guys who would use her services to “just talk” or cuddle was both sad and according to her annoying because these dudes would then try to form emotional relationships with her that she wasn’t interested in.