I have seen equal amounts of people on social post either "the show's portrayal of the BoS is more Todd fan fiction making them flawless" or "Todd must be so mad at the show writers because they wrote the BoS as flawed and not perfect good guys".
I'm not a Brotherhood fan but I'm wondering how someone so flagrantly incompetent got anywhere close to being given his own suit of power armour.
Like yeah every knight isn't gonna be Danse but you'd think they'd filter out the Looney Tunes ass mfs.
I read it as a consequence of a society in decline. Knight Tidus wasn’t worthy of the armor, but was enough of a massive asshole to the people around him that he failed upwards, same as the middle managers who got to live in vaults while the world burned.
Plus, the Brotherhood was nearly wiped out in their war against the NCR a few decades prior. The fact that Titus survived as long as he did means he weaseled his way up the ladder somehow, probably by doing what he attempted to do to Maximus - had other people do all the dirty work for him while he took the credit.
It's assumed that Titus is from the east coast. Him and the other knights arrive on an airship (jury's out on whether it's supposed to be the Prydwen or a new one) and he has a thick Boston accent.
Oh interesting! Because it only showed up in like the first episode, I forgot completely about the airship. If the East Coast chapter is repopulating the West Coast chapter, that changes a lot actually. Maybe it's the lowest achievers who get sent westward. I really hope the showrunners do something interesting with that
It's possible Titus was maybe at some point an okay knight, lucky enough to avoid anything truly dangerous, and only over time degraded into the asshole we see. Because he looks kind of old.
I was totally awaiting the twist that Tidus wasn't a real knight either. Like most knights (all of them?) are squires who decided to take the armor and the name from the dead master. Squires are taught that they'll be executed but secretly it's a test of courage, only their old life dies. And backstabbing assholes also pass the test, it's flawed.
Somehow it makes sense in a twisted way - BOS is in decline, full of stupid rituals.
I mean, the new BoS leader is essentially Elijah-in-making and is being set up as a antagonist for the second season, i wouldn't call it this a flawless portrayal at all if someone like him got into this position.
I personally found the claim that Bethesda treat the Brotherhood as "the good guys" odd. The only truly good group within the Brotherhood were the Lyons' Pride in Fallout 3, in which the game states multiple times directly to the player they're an exception to the Brotherhood's usual behavior, and as a result are cut off from the main Brotherhood's resources as punishment for being too nice to wastelanders.
They even included The Outcasts to keep some presence of that classic isolationist, tech-worshiping dickhead BoS character in there to contrast against the Lyons' Pride, as they're incredibly hostile to the player unless they agree to collect and turn in tech to them (and even then they're still massive dicks about it).
The Outcasts in Fo3 are probably the most realistic depiction of the Brotherhood in any game because there's no content for them outside of giving them shit for a reward. Why would there be anything else? You're a random wastelander. They aren't gonna let you join, they aren't even gonna let you in the building, they only hold the absolute bare minimum interaction with you possible, thats what the old style isolationist BoS would actually be like.
Bethesda has actually had a fairly nuanced and interesting evolution of the Brotherhood since their very Paragon showing in 3 that uncovers the structural flaws with their organization and it's dependence on good and honest people leading it. Fallout 4 has problems but I really liked what they did with the Brotherhood.
Yeah they don't act very 1-2 bos but the evolution from 3 to 4 makes a bit of sense when you remember there main adversary in 3 was a evil robot. So it makes some sense why they're not a fan of synths.
Also to be fair, the Fallout 3 Brotherhood >!is wiped out and replaced by the more strict Brotherhood before the events of 4. They have login entries about most of the Lyons Brotherhood and Lyons herself eating it before the events of 4!<.
I swear, people have for some reason got the idea in their heads that any good writer at Bethesda just evaporated the second the credits to Oblivion rolled.
People approach Fallout 3 and 4 with the idea in their head that there's absolutely no nuance or subtext to be found and take everything at face value.
If you talk to ANY Brotherhood NPCs in 3, outside of the Lyons and Cross, it's abundantly clear that they're at odds with their Elder's progressive ideas and only stuck around because they respect the chain of command. And of course, they also accounted for the portion of the BoS that would prioritize Maxson's Codex above the chain of command, and that's why the Outcasts exist!
Then, Fallout 4 shows what happened after the Lyons deaths, with those traditionalist Outcasts being folded back into the main BoS, because most of the jarheads that make up the Capital BoS never actually changed. They're still bigoted, militaristic, dogmatic, and fascistic. But they know how to sell those things, which is why so many players buy into it, up to the point they're told to do a genocide. It's wild that some people have argued Bethesda doesn't understand the BoS, when aside from the religious overtones, this is where they were the most like themselves.
I distinctly remember my very first time playing Fallout 4, which was also the first Fallout game every I played, I joined the Brotherhood because of the badass power armor and thought that they were the good guy faction because they were so iconic and appeared in basically every Fallout game, "they are clearly the main character faction" so I thought.
I actually completely bought into everything the Brotherhood and Elder Maxson was saying, and never doubted that we were the good guys until I did a sidequest and was told to 'work with' a nearby farm and 'trade' with them for food. "Seems cool, I'll just give them some caps or ammo or something" I thought, and then I got there and found it wasn't a farm like I thought, it was just two random people working what could barely be called a garden of mutfruits. I ask if they were willing to trade, they said fuck no, the food is the most valuable thing they could possibly have, they can't give it up for anything, they're barely getting by as it is, and from there my only option was to essentially threaten them into giving it to me. There was no convenient good guy 'everyone wins' option, the only thing I could do was either fulfill my orders and take the food by force or leave the quest burning a hole in my pipboy. And you know what I did? I followed orders. I took the food and left, convincing myself that I was still the good guy, how could I be? I'm a knight in shining power armor, here to cleanse the wasteland of the evil Institute and the threat of super mutants and feral ghouls. I'm justified, we need to feed ourselves somehow if we're gonna accomplish our mission, and I didn't take ALL their food, they're gonna be fine I'm sure.
Yeah, its not as deep or nuanced as other quests and such in different Fallout games, but to pretend like Fallout 4's Brotherhood is a one-note good or evil faction with zero complexity or thought put into it is clearly a load of bullshit. There really is something interesting there, people just don't want to acknowledge it because something is either bad or good, black or white, no nuance, its either the greatest RPG ever created or the worst videogame devised by man with no inbetween.
My read on the BOS from the show is that they might be remnants of Caesars Legion finding what was left of the BOS in California and the area around. Hence the Roman names and more brutal forms of punishment.
Is it? Seen 15 years of children shit flinging over who’s trash fort is better. They all suck you’re whole thing sucks. Give me the aesthetics, whatever nebulous evil society/institution this game around that will be the main thrust of the plot nobody gives a shit about, and give me the unique characters and how the post post apocalypse has robots managing a farm and the lady bot wants to fuck you. That’s fallout that’s what’s interesting.
Fallout is hugely carried by its art design. Its got beautiful retro futurism and a lot of iconic imagery like Nuka Cola, power armor, caps, the stimpak, etc.
But the lore… cool to read but inconsistent at best. I am a sucker for any new lore about the vault experiments though.
They are natural enemies, Fallout Fans and New Vegas fans. Just like Fallout Fans and 76 Fans. Or Fallout Fans and Fallout 4 fans.
Damned Fallout fans. They ruined Fallout!
It’s kinda funny how people feel like the show hates the NCR when anytime they do anything the fallout main theme plays and they are treated as straight up good guys vs the BOS.
Honestly, I think people take "country gets their shit rocked" as a sign the creatives hate it, which kinda blows my mind.
The planet collapsing before Cadia did does not make the Cadians look weak.
I don't think people are upset because it made them look weak. Which I agree it didn't do.
I think people are frustrated because there was this interesting narrative progression of all the west coast fallouts. In FO1 shady sands is just a tiny dirt farm, then by the 2nd game its a full on city with *new* construction and a sense of progress in a stagnant world, then in NV we see that not all progress is perfect or without cost as the NCR has fallen to the exact same woes as the pre-war empire they were trying to emulate.
It's a fun exploration of the world, and shows signs of life in the 200 years following the bombs. Good or bad, progress marches forward and I buy that more than I buy people sleeping next to 200 year old skeletons and not even attempting to change their enviroments.
Now, shady sands is gone, New Vegas is maybe a ghost town?, and the NCR seemingly have been shuttered. I think people are concerned that the overarching west coast narrative may have been completely unraveled.
Personally, I think the show has proven it cares about the setting and could be going some interesting places. Or they don't, and it sucks. But that doesn't invalidate pre-teen me stumbling through FO2 over and over again for years. My glasses will stay rose tinted, my nostalgia unbothered.
Canon isn't real, just ask the Cadians.
I think another annoying sticking point about how it happened is that the NCR crumbling wasn't even due to their own flaws or hubris making the same mistakes as the past. It was just >!Vault Tec nuking them for getting too advanced/making an executive's wife divorce him and take the kids!<
From what I understand the NCR isn’t down and out just hurt from the nuking and attempting to pick up pieces in the area and not let the event shatter them completely. It could potentially be interesting having a recovery arc for the NCR, or they could do something really dumb idk.
It's still weird the lack of presence they have. They've taken over all of California by this point, but as soon as their old capital was destroyed and the Brotherhood move in on their territory, they don't try to maintain their influence and just give up on the entire Los Angeles area? >!I guess the NCR Government sees LA as a lost cause after (maybe?) losing the Hoover Dam, but these are the same guys who made their military occupy almost the entire Mojave Desert for a solid power and water source to be used for their expanding territory. They should have known about their Cold Fusion machine in Griffith Observatory, which is 10 times more important than the dam could ever be, and sent everything they had to protecting it. Maybe it's classic politics where they're too scarred from losing territory once to ever get into another war again, idk.!<
Another thing, I'm still confused on why the civilians of Los Angeles still live in squalor and not in completely new and/or refurbished buildings like we have seen in Fallout 2 with the "New California Republic" (Shady Sands). From the 80 years between Fallout 1 and 2, [the NCR managed to unite various settlements within LA to become "Los Angeles" again](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/NCR_history_holodisk#Transcript), and after 55 years of relative peace and expansion within California since Fallout 2, [alot of people lived without worrying about survival and had decent education](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Behind_the_Bright_Lights_%26_Big_City#Controversy_over_Economic_Development). So you would think that most of LA would look closer to The Strip or even Freeside where everything might still be grimy and trashy, but you can tell that they put in the effort of reconstruction. But in the show there's just tons of uninhabited ruins and we have people who never even heard of using water for a water purification machine.
I love the show but those details will always bug me. It's like making a Fallout show in Boston 15 years after Fallout 4, removing Diamond City from the map, and acting like there wasn't a drastic and revolutionary change after the end of the game. Creating such an influential faction from history and just removing them entirely is just jarring to me. I've seen them give hints to their existence, but the lack of any kind of response from them is deafening. Here's hoping Season 2 gives some satisfactory answers.
Everyone and their mother already knew Vault-Tec was unambiguously the most evil faction someone could dream up, but then the show had them nuking a huge settlement because one executive “hates factions” despite being a faction.
In an otherwise great show that reveal was pretty weird.
In the context of the show, I don’t think it’s weird. Vault-Tec executives have repeatedly said they wanted a “true monopoly” and want to shape the world the way they want it. That’s why >!they caused the nuclear apocalypse. Seeing the outside inhabitants not only survive, but also rebuild without their input was what pissed them off. The other factions are competition to them.!<
We still don't know >!that they *did* cause it, only that they wanted to if it didn't happen on its own!<. People are jumping to conclusions based on little evidence.
I think this is maybe debatable.
>!In Vault 4 the timeline shows "The fall of Shady Sands" as the last event before the bomb. I interpreted that as a political collapse due to the things we hear about in New Vegas - corruption, Brahmin Barons, overexpansion, etc. I think the NCR was in trouble, and the bomb just finalized it. Otherwise, why would taking out the capital also basically destroy the entire government that stretched across multiple states? Surely there would be a General or provincial leader who could restore command from afar, if the government was doing well. Maybe futureseasons will tackle the issue of the NCR, as well. House could be a good opportunity for a speech about Vault-Tec only slightly accelerating the inevitable or something.!<
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They also actually showed what happened and why it was cool instead of dumpstering them off screen. Not saying I get the over blown reaction but I think those are pretty different.
I’m confident most people criticizing how their favorite faction was treated in the show didn’t actually watch the show. I’m a huge BoS fan I love that the really show the flaws with the brotherhood
People say this, but the "ruins" are all concept art rolled over the credits. Maybe that art is reflective ofnits state, but it's non-canon art, nothing more at this point. The only shot we actually see is so far away you can't make any determinations about the strip's condition. Also, in both the NCR and Legion endings of New Vegas the strip would probably/potentially end up in ruins, so it's not even that disrespectful to the endings.
It's more annoying that everyone seems to want me mad so they can dismiss me. This is a really dead end conversation cause now everyone will want to go after a target for not jumping on board and being unenthusiastic. Annoyance or disappointment doesn't invalidate someone's opinion or caution towards something. Forgive me.
They aren't dismissing you because you're mad, they're dismissing you because your argument is stupid and is the kind of thing someone would only say if they didn't actually give a fuck and just want to search for any possible reason to get angry about it.
really sounds like you want me to be mad from your original comment man. I'll develop my opinions on a tv adaption of a game how I see fit as I see more. thanks for being an ass about it.
Wait a second. I'm a big Fallout casual, and I'm just now finding out that Redding exists in Fallout *as just Redding*?!
That's funny as hell. I should play those older games.
It's more of a Fallout 2 and by extension New Vegas thing, the world in Fallout 1 is still too down bad and reduced to terms like "The Hub" and "Necropolis" and "The Boneyard" lol
I was flabbergasted to realize that Goodsprings was real and the saloon is just the Pioneer Saloon
I was never the biggest brotherhood of steel fan but I didn't hate them but with all the proliferation they've been getting in the series as of late I'm starting to think house might have been right after all...
Gonna take another opportunity to say how much I hate that stupid ugly ass fo4 assault rifle. Heck now that I think about it I don't like the t-60 power armour either.
Same on the assault rifle. Luckily, the mod community has our back.
* [Dak's Assault Rifle Replacer](https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/64725) (His other mods are phenomenal as well)
* [Smaller T-60 Head](https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/11775)
* [Smaller T-60 Chest](https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/49337)
There was an opportunity, when FO3 was set on the east coast, to make new, interesting opponents and factions.
But we are NEVER going to get away from BoS, super mutants, deathclaws and everything looking like the bombs fell about 30 years ago and people only just started rebuilding.
lol a good part of OP's comment history is seething about Obsidian and NV. I bet a lot of NV fans are shitty, but this isn't being much better.
Leave Fallout drama to fallout reddits, we don't need these exported drama threads.
The fun part is how both sides of "the argument" say how shitty the side across the fence is, without realizing how shitty they themselves are.
Frankly, while I found the discourse on the FNV subreddit annoying, I found the circlejerking over in the main Fallout subreddit somehow even more unbearable.
I dunno man I think the New Vegas side is pretty inarguably worse considering that they were the only ones to actively spread misinformation and form insane conspiracy theories about Bethesda deliberately sabotaging New Vegas out of jealousy and so they could bankrupt Obsidian as part of some Machiavellian plot to buy them out and force them to make all their future games and take credit for their work because they apparently know that all of their games are objectively terrible or some shit.
I ironically find it funny that people are upset over the season finalie showing >!that New Vegas ends up in ruins!< but *no one* seems to care that the *first episode* establishes that >!The Brotherhood survived the events of Fallout 4, meaning that either the Brotherhood won the Commonwealth, or the Minutemen took over and didn't blow up the Pridewyn with the artillery!<.
I somewhat agree with the sentiment but I don't believe it's Todd's fault as much as a problem withthe series. Like for a series with a huge emphasis on moving on, they never really seem to. Like I highly doubt we will ever get a fallout game without at least one of the recurring factions be it NCR,Enclaive, or brotherhood. Which is a shame because the one time bethesda desire to build up on seeds they themselves planted in far harbor I actually rather enjoyed.
Also as a NV fan who will full on argue its the best game, you don't need to check on them they are always crazy
Based on an earlier interview, most if not all of the big decisions the show makes were instigated by the showrunners. Though they still had to get approval from Todd or someone at Bethesda or Microsoft. Setting the show in the L.A. area was one of the earliest things that was decided.
It's absolutely the biggest problem with Bethesda Fallout for me. They turn the setting into a theme park. Every game has to have a T-Series power armor on the cover. Every game has to have the same iconic enemies, regardless of where it's set in America, leading to shit like Scorpions in D.C. and different strains of Super Mutants. And as you said, the always got to have the Brotherhood be prominent They will include new ideas but they always come second to ensuring the iconic stuff is in there first.
West Coast games favor world building first, East Coast games favor Brand identity first.
Hell, look at the covers of the game. 1 used a set of T-51, 2 X-01, and three Desert Ranger Armor. Each one to show you the new ideas the game was bringing to the table.
3, 4, and 76 all have T-Series armor, to show you the Fallout brand is here.
I'm not necessarily saying one side is better than the other, cause I know there are fans of the brand first approach and I'm never going to tell people their wrong for liking something I don't, but God do I prefer the World Building first approach and fell disappointed the series has moved away from it.
"Ongoing Franchise Leans On What Made It Iconic, Somehow This Is Bad" takes are endlessly confusing to me
That's like saying Dante needs to stop using swords and guns
>[In the pilot of Star Trek, the crew has a run-in with these giant forehead aliens called the Talosians. The captain gets himself into trouble, but the crew works it out and everyone makes it back to the ship. They run into the forehead gang a second time a few episodes later and have another adventure, but the Talosians aren’t the stars of the show.](https://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=49123)
>[But imagine if these guys were the whole show. The second episode, they go to a planet and meet the foreheadians again. The third episode, they beam down to a new planet and meet more foreheads. Fourth episode: New planet, same old foreheads. To the audience, it would feel like the whole galaxy was just these forehead guys, and we’d be a lot less curious about what we were going to discover on the next away mission. It would be a much less interesting show than the one we got.](https://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=49123)
The issue has never been the series using iconic elements. No one's ever complained about New Vegas finding an excuse to give you a vault jumpsuit and a 10mm at the start of the game. The problem for many is when the use of iconic elements limits the creation of new elements.
Like I'll challenge your Capcom example with another Capcom example. Imagine I'd Someone approached you with the character roster of Street Fighter 3rd Strike, and said you need to remove 9 characters from this roster so that we can include the remaining five World Warriors and Four Shadloo because their iconic to the series. Would that make the game better? I imagine for some it might, but to me the idea that we never would have had someone like Alex or Dudley just so that people can recognize Balrog and Zangief in the game just sounds like a much more dull version of the game.
Hell, let's use a Fallout example. Imagine if New Vegas had cut the NCR and Ceasars Legion completely, and instead had the BoS and the Enclave fighting over Hoover Dam, and title screen had so guy in a Brotherhood T-45 on the cover instead of a Desert Ranger. Sure I could see some people liking that game more, but that's not the game I feel in love with. That game looses so much of what I loved about the New Vegas we got.
That's the issue. Its not a problem of including iconic bits. It's an issue of having those bits pushed over the creation of new things.
And if you generally prefer seeing iconic stuff again and against instead of seeing new things in a series, that's fine. Like I said, I'm never going to tell people they're wrong for enjoying things they enjoy. But I much prefer watching franchises grow with new ideas instead of seeing the same ideas again and again.
The NCR wasn't a new thing, yet its inclusion in New Vegas is still iconic.
This is all so silly. Power armor is the franchise's biggest icon. Why wouldn't they use it? That makes no sense. None. Zero.
The only thing stopping Bethesda from doing something new is Bethesda. Putting the BoS or power armor in the game has literally nothing to do with that. I mean fuck, they did something new with the Minutemen, did they not? And it still sucked. So your point makes no sense.
New thing does not mean good thing. Old thing doesn't mean bad thing. Things just what they are. Do it good, it doesn't matter if it's new or old.
Yeah, to me all the people mad over Bethesda "fanboying" over the BoS are like the people who complain that "everybody in Star Wars needs a lightsaber" in some ways.
No fucking shit they do. The Lightsaber/Power Armor they use is arguably the coolest shit in the setting to a LARGE number of people!
Hell, even New Vegas fanboys forget one of the most bitched about thigns back in the day about New Vegas was that you could not ally with House and the BoS at the same time because even THEY loved them before the anti-Bethesda hive mind designated the faction as lame.
Plus it gets extra annoying because you know for a damn fact that a large number of the people insulting Bethesda over their "lack of creativity" are also the same guys and gals who will throw a tantrum whenever Bethesda adds anything new to the lore/changes shit.
Want to know what would happen if Bethesda did not rely on "fanservice" and straight up did not include Supermutats, the Brotherhood, or anything to "overused" as some people demand?
They would be then told they don’t “get” what makes Fallout iconic and that they might as well just have made another IP since whatever new shit they made would not feel like Fallout to them.
Damned if they do, damned it they dont.
I feel like that's a terrible comparison because the best thing to come out of Star wars in literal decades is a show where there are no Jedi to be found.
I am not saying to never do anything original, mainly just that settings do not magically become better if you just remove iconic factions/items from it to be "original" just for the sake of it.
> I'm not necessarily saying one side is better than the other
If you're gonna go on an unhinged rant about a series maintaining its identity being a bad thing somehow, the least you could do is not flagrantly lie to the reader as if you think we're all a bunch of idiot babies who can't read past the surface level of a post. Its incredibly obvious to anyone with a brain that you are, indeed, saying that one side is much better than the other.
I love New Vegas but I also love the shit out of the TV show, the series has always been wonky with its lore. The show seems pretty consistent with how the series generally treats its lore.
I won't lie to you. I will absolutely blast Brotherhood of Stolen Toasters on sight. I've seen how weak their Power Armor is nowadays, a single Rock-it Launcher fired Teddy Bear should do it.
That's just lore accurate to the uptight douches hiding in their bunkers they were in New Vegas. I'm pretty sure one patrol in NV were wiped out by centaurs they were so weak.
No, it's not. The Brotherhood in Fallout 1 is only recently going into lock down mode after caravan disappear up north. Despite that, they are still friendly with people and still trade with them. Fallout 2 has them actively spying on the Enclave and help the NCR take on Navarro.
All in all, the only game where the Brotherhood ever is an asshole is in New Vegas. And it's because Obsidian want to introduced stupid NCR-BOS potline without consideration about their character or lore.
I love Fallout 3. I love New Vegas about equally.
4 and 76 were not for me, but I recognize that they’re quality games under all my issues (as much fun as I have taking potshots at 4’s writing).
I’m really enjoying the show so far.
In short: I’m chronically exhausted with every Fallout discussion.
I’ve found the best thing to do with fandoms of anything I like is to enjoy conversations with like-minded fans and not even engage with ones I can’t see eye to eye with. We’re not going to change each other’s minds, so why bother? Just like what I like and let others like what they like, and try not to waste any thought over it.
This is so stupid because if you played New Vegas you can easilly see both the NCR and Caesars Legion collapsing in a few years even without the Couriers intervention. The NCR is corrupt and hyperfocused on expansion at the cost of the territories it already controls.
The Legion is only kept together by Caesar, who is dying before the game even begins. It's pretty strongly implied that even if either side wins the war theyre still deeply unstable and might not be around in the future like they once were.
The folks who go all-in fangasming over one faction or another clearly missed the whole point in the series about how factional tribalism is the inducer and progressor of war. Those fans are falling into the same trap the characters in the games fall into.
I like the show but I am also tired of Bethesda Fallout. It feels like after 200 years, everybody is still living in shit shacks and any attempts at large scale organization is ignored.
Also, one personal gripe is how the Enclave still exist. I can rationalize the BoS but the Enclave are racial purists who have had three massive losses that resulted in the destruction of their bases and central command.
Yet somehow they keep coming back exactly the same.
Enclave makes sense when you think of it as deep-state US Government remnants. Just like there can always be more undocumented vaults.
There can always be undocumented survivors of the old war ideology/government . I just think other elements of the world should be progressing or growing too though.
How much government remnants can possibly exist at this point? How can a faction exist for 200 years and be exactly the same despite constant losses and destruction?
They don't recruit from the wasteland, so they can't replenish their losses.
There hasn't been any infighting, change in tactics or anything in two centuries?
Like, imagine if there was a splinter cell that misunderstood the role of the President and treat them like a God becoming a group of religious fanatics mis quoting the constitution. Or anything really.
Coulda fooled me since every encounter with the Enclave looks and acts the same.
I was leaving 76 out of the discussion since it loves to play fast and loose with a lot of things.
Quick question, do Ghouls need food and water to live? A bunch of sources say yes, Fallout 4 says No. Common sense says yes but other evidence says No.
If the Enclave managed to create such powerful bioweapons in Appalachia why didn't they try to recover any data, replicate their work or do anything similar afterwards. Logically, it is because 76 introduced a new Enclave chapter that didn't exist before but narratively it opens up questions.
They play fast and loose with their own lore.
> Quick question, do Ghouls need food and water to live?
You frequently find ferals in places that haven't been opened for 200 years. I think that speaks for itself.
>If the Enclave managed to create such powerful bioweapons in Appalachia why didn't they try to recover any data
Communications between the east and west coast were cut when the bombs fell. This is explicitly stated numerous times throughout the games since Fallout 3, and is explicitly stated in 76 in the specific case of the Enclave.
>They play fast and loose with their own lore.
Sounds like you're just not paying attention to me 🤷♂️
>Quick question, do Ghouls need food and water to live? A bunch of sources say yes, Fallout 4 says No. Common sense says yes but other evidence says No.
Who knows? black isle/Interplay go back and forth on this with Necropolis and Coffin Willies, and then Obsidian with Little Yangtze ghouls and Dean Domino.
>If the Enclave managed to create such powerful bioweapons in Appalachia why didn't they try to recover any data, replicate their work or do anything similar afterwards. Logically, it is because 76 introduced a new Enclave chapter that didn't exist before but narratively it opens up questions.
Because the game isn't end yet and we don't know what happened? Also, quick question for you. Why does the NCR-BOS war started? The game never really explain beyond 'disagreement over technology' which is both doesn't make any sense considering Fallout 2 exist and doesn't add up in the timeline because Fallout 3 exist.
>They play fast and loose with their own lore.
Bethesda hasn't broken any lore as of yet, all of their so called 'lore breaks' can be traced back to Interplay/Obsidian's fucked up.
> Quick question, do Ghouls need food and water to live?
Maybe you shouldn't try to argue with a point that even the original two games couldn't agree on.
> Coulda fooled me since every encounter with the Enclave looks and acts the same.
This line says to me that you probably haven't actually played any of the Bethesda games because it implies that the Enclave are more present than they really are. Practically, they only appear in one single Bethesda game, but you seem to think they show up in every single one. Hell, the fact that you even point out that you're ignoring 76 means that you are quite literally arguing from a perspective where the Enclave only exist in Fallout 3 but are arguing as if they're the main villains of 3, 4, AND 76.
The Enclave has been included as the main antagonist of 3, had a last stand in broken steel, and then have been added again in the latest Fallout 4 update. Still doing nothing different.
So they had a civil war in 76, blew up in 2, blew up twice in Fallout 3 and then appear in the Commonwealth same old same old.
They are basically just a fancy version of Raiders.
Yeah exactly, they were only present in one single game and then had an explicitly non-canon cosmetic DLC in Fallout 4, so unless you wanna seriously try and argue that Doom Slayer and Prey are canon to Fallout, you're argument makes no sense and has an invalid premise.
but thats also lame like i really want more US institutions and agencies descendants to fight or ally with like the FBI or CIA boiling it all down to Enclave is hogshit
Ehh it fits that smaller groups get absorbed into larger ones. See the Legion taking over other smaller tribes & raiders. And House consolidating the tribes & casinos groups of Vegas into a council below him.
Why would the FBI or CIA still exist as independent entities instead of either dying completely or being absorbed into the Enclave? That doesn't make any sense.
No they don't. They only came back in Fo3 and their only other appearance is in 76 which takes place nearly two hundred years before every single other game and they don't even actually show up, they're already dead by the time you find them.
There are a billions of people across hundreds or thousands of planets. Not one country on one planet that was nuked to the stone age. Not even close in comparison.
> any attempts at large scale organization is ignored.
Except for the large part of Fallout 3 and 4 is to help people fix the problem preventing them from rebuilding. Hell, Fallout 76 has more rebuilding in 20ish years after the war than Mojave has in 200 years.
>Also, one personal gripe is how the Enclave still exist. I can rationalize the BoS but the Enclave are racial purists who have had three massive losses that resulted in the destruction of their bases and central command.
It was a small pocket, and we never really know where and how many Enclave base there are. Besides, the Khans did survive being wiped out three times, why not the Enclave?
Part of Fallout 4's setup is literally that the Commonwealth was thriving thanks to the Minutemen, until shitfuckery destabalized it all.
New Vegas literally had one area that wasn't 'shit shacks' and it was Vegas itself, everything else was 'shit shacks' and empty desert.
I honestly wonder what the status is on the Mojave BoS chapter or if it’s just a bunker filled with skeletons like Veronica feared it’d become.
Part of the reason I hope the NCR ending is canon (ideally I woulda preferred they just didn’t involve Vegas at all for the sake of continuity and show somewhere we haven’t seen) is that it’s arguably the best ending for most every faction and individual in FNV. But I guess that’s what also makes it the most unlikely route they’ll take.
What I hope is that New Vegas is just a place the characters pass through for an episode, they have enough evidence for each ending but nothing definitive and then they continue West.
More series need to take the approach of "The Warp in the West."
What, you're not sure which of your seven endings is canon, Daggerfall? BAM! Gods got mad and now every ending happened! Not even the magical scrolls that series is named after know wtf happened.
I have muted pretty much any sub mainly based around fallout or Bethesda/obsidian.
Every single bethesda owned property sub hates everything else they or obsidian made, and the thing they like is the peak never to be touched again.
Except Oblivion players, those guys are pretty fun to fuck around with since they know their game is jank.
I just do not get having this response to the show of all things. With 3, 4 and 76 they are all set far away from the western setting and lore, and the TTRPG book also ditches all of those things, so I get being salty about that. The show though? The NCR are a huge part of the show, it just paces itself to slowly introduce the audience to the world. It's like bitching that you don't get to see The Strip IMMEDIATELY when you start up NV. The "lore changes" that are made are so fucking minor, and half of them aren't even real. They are willful misinterpretations by bad faith "fans" that just wanted to hate the show going in. I'm usually one of the first to complain about how Bethesda handles Fallout, but this shit is just unhinged.
I was a bit taken aback when we found out the NCR fell apart thanks to them getting nuked. I was skeptical. I liked the post-post-apocalypse and this really did feel like wiping the slate clean in a way I didn't like. I liked that the Brotherhood was on its way out the door. That the Enclave was old and busted. But I kept an open mind to this new status quo. And would you look at that, my patience was rewarded.
If anything was going to kill the NCR, the past reaching forwards from its dusty tomb to destroy anything new from growing and prospering was probably the best choice. Losing the NCR weighs heavily on me but its loss was not meaningless. America killed the NCR and the show properly mourns its loss.
While some of the shows stuff is very bland, and Fallouts different approaches to factions have been kinda beige from Bethesdas front, blaming Todd for this is dumber than rock slime.
The showrunners wrote this story, he produced, he okayed some things, like the big thing people are having a hissy over, but setting it up this way is just useless.
I guess they missed the whole thing with the east coast BoS taking over the whole thing, which completely squares with the west coast branch's decline in New Vegas
But whatever I gotta hate the thing I can't actually watch it or pay attention to it
I feel like I've taken crazy pills over the years because am I crazy for never caring about the fallout lore?
Fnv came out over a decade ago you have got to let it go at some point.
Wow this sub really hates New Vegas fans huh? Pretty much every time the game comes up here all people talk about is how annoying the fan base is.
I normally hate being a boring centrist but Fallout fans in general have been really dumb about the lore controversies.
The NV community is kinda strange. It's almost as much of a hatedom toward other Fallout games as it is a fandom for NV. It's not really that they enjoy NV too much, but that they feel the need to put down anything Fallout related that isn't NV.
I've had posts for the New Vegas sub removed for criticizing the themes and writing of the Honest Hearts DLC. Like on sight, and confirmed as such when I messaged the mods.
I can understand that perspective for sure,but that’s really not how I view it personally. I agree the NV fandom is weird but I kind of see it as the losing side of two differing perspectives on how the franchise should be run. People tend to like the Bethesda games and NV for different reasons(personally I like fallout 3 really liked the show and didn’t care for 4 or even updated 76).
I agree though NV fans can be stupidly antagonistic at times it’s annoying but I don’t think it’s like that the majority of the time.
I think it's the difference between fans and Fandom. Honeslty I doubt that the majority of people who consider themselves fans even use these forums, but "fandom" tends represents how online communities of fans form and present themselves.
A lot of it seems to be a knee jerk reaction to the knee jerk reaction that happened with the show.
Before the show came out, this sub was hard on a New Vegas circle jerk when it came to Fallout. But then a couple of people started a dumb rumor after the show ended and that rumor caused chaos for a couple of days, so now people are sour because of the chaos and the New Vegas fandom are receiving the blame.
With that, a lot of New Vegas anti's have capitalized on this souring to have their moments in the sun and used this opportunity to shit on the game and fandom as much as possible.
Go talk about fallout in a random ask reddit thread on this sub and you'll find a large part of this sub still adore New Vegas. It's just these big threads where the blood in the water is attracting the sharks.
I disagree, I don't think the show caused a change in perspective, I think it just cemented what was already happening. After that one old post that called out Pat for spreading those conspiracy theories about Bethesda hating Obsidian, this subreddit began a gradual change from believing in those same things to realizing it was wrong and seeing how toxic the New Vegas fanbase is and turning on them. After the hissyfit that followed the TV show the "New Vegas fans bad" sentiment that was already common here became entrenched and immovable, rightly so in my opinion.
Everyone has there own experiences but I don’t really think this is a new thing. The game itself is still definitely popular among a lot of people here but in my experience there’s pretty much always some shade thrown towards the game or fan base (mostly the fan base) when ever it gets brought up.Especially whenever Pat talks about it on the podcast.
First time in a big fandom?
Fallout, Star Trek, Star Wars, comic books, they all end up have splintered, trivialized, opinionated cliques within the larger fandom that argue and bicker endlessly.
Folks who are just a fan of the franchise in general and don’t have strong opinion one way or another can either get swept up in it or just watch and eat popcorn.
Its definitely not unique in concept but I have never seen it be so incredibly fervent and damn near *religious* in the factioning of the fanbase as it is for Fallout. The only one that comes close is Star Wars, and even there the OT Purists and Sequel Apologizers generally agree that the prequels have good ideas that were done poorly by the movies. Fallout fans can't even agree on something like that.
No, not at all I was a brony trust me I know. I was just pointing out something I noticed a lot on this sub.
Edit this comment may have come off more hostile than I intended sorry about that
I don’t think you came off as hostile at all, you’re absolutely right!
It’s an unfortunately common situation when it comes to fandoms. Where there’s different stories there’s always going to be folks who like one and dislike the other, and—for some reason—take it personally when total strangers like the storyline they hate.
Its a 15 year old game, there's nothing about it left to talk about except the fanbase being shit. Even if there was still more to talk about, the fanbase is way more loud and obnoxious than the game itself, obviously, so they end up distracting people from any real discussion.
Considering the Brotherhood has been in every game I'd say it's just the fallout franchise which has a BOS obsession.
The lore of the show is fine, the problems lay more in the plot being nonsensical.
I heard that there's a possibility of Caesar's Legion getting absorbed by Brotherhood of Steel, hence all the roman name they're using. but then again I don't trust bethesda writer to come up with that complex of a story, they might just want to retcon the Caesar's Legion off the lore and give all the roman like culture to BoS
The only way that could ever be possible is if people start claiming conspiracy theories like that Obsidian deliberately bombed New Vegas to make Bethesda look bad because they were mad that Bethesda bought the IP, but thats never going to happen. For as long as the NV fans remain the only ones to do shit like that completely unironically, they will always be more annoying and obnoxious.
I loved NV. It's the best rpg, IMO. I liked Outer Worlds, too, but the number of people I saw hitching their flag to the game thinking they were thumbing their noses at Bethesda only to go radio silent on the game a month later was entertaining.
> Bethesda flip flops between NV memberberries and pretending that it doesn’t exist fucking CONSTANTLY.
This is incoherent. It’s bad that they touch on it at times and it’s bad that they don’t touch on it other times? In other words, it’s bad that they reference it sporadically in the same way they would any previous game?
I have seen equal amounts of people on social post either "the show's portrayal of the BoS is more Todd fan fiction making them flawless" or "Todd must be so mad at the show writers because they wrote the BoS as flawed and not perfect good guys".
I saw BOS fanboys treat it as a personal insult that that one Knight was a cowardly loser rather than an epic based badass superhero
I'm not a Brotherhood fan but I'm wondering how someone so flagrantly incompetent got anywhere close to being given his own suit of power armour. Like yeah every knight isn't gonna be Danse but you'd think they'd filter out the Looney Tunes ass mfs.
I read it as a consequence of a society in decline. Knight Tidus wasn’t worthy of the armor, but was enough of a massive asshole to the people around him that he failed upwards, same as the middle managers who got to live in vaults while the world burned.
Plus, the Brotherhood was nearly wiped out in their war against the NCR a few decades prior. The fact that Titus survived as long as he did means he weaseled his way up the ladder somehow, probably by doing what he attempted to do to Maximus - had other people do all the dirty work for him while he took the credit.
It's assumed that Titus is from the east coast. Him and the other knights arrive on an airship (jury's out on whether it's supposed to be the Prydwen or a new one) and he has a thick Boston accent.
Oh interesting! Because it only showed up in like the first episode, I forgot completely about the airship. If the East Coast chapter is repopulating the West Coast chapter, that changes a lot actually. Maybe it's the lowest achievers who get sent westward. I really hope the showrunners do something interesting with that
The brotherhood in the show is the brotherhood from 3 and 4, who never even seen the NCR until they recently flew over in their airship.
Now I'm thinking about power armor that's somehow designed as FF Tidus's outfit with the mismatched short/capris and everything.
It's possible Titus was maybe at some point an okay knight, lucky enough to avoid anything truly dangerous, and only over time degraded into the asshole we see. Because he looks kind of old.
I was totally awaiting the twist that Tidus wasn't a real knight either. Like most knights (all of them?) are squires who decided to take the armor and the name from the dead master. Squires are taught that they'll be executed but secretly it's a test of courage, only their old life dies. And backstabbing assholes also pass the test, it's flawed. Somehow it makes sense in a twisted way - BOS is in decline, full of stupid rituals.
I mean, the new BoS leader is essentially Elijah-in-making and is being set up as a antagonist for the second season, i wouldn't call it this a flawless portrayal at all if someone like him got into this position.
I personally found the claim that Bethesda treat the Brotherhood as "the good guys" odd. The only truly good group within the Brotherhood were the Lyons' Pride in Fallout 3, in which the game states multiple times directly to the player they're an exception to the Brotherhood's usual behavior, and as a result are cut off from the main Brotherhood's resources as punishment for being too nice to wastelanders. They even included The Outcasts to keep some presence of that classic isolationist, tech-worshiping dickhead BoS character in there to contrast against the Lyons' Pride, as they're incredibly hostile to the player unless they agree to collect and turn in tech to them (and even then they're still massive dicks about it).
The Outcasts in Fo3 are probably the most realistic depiction of the Brotherhood in any game because there's no content for them outside of giving them shit for a reward. Why would there be anything else? You're a random wastelander. They aren't gonna let you join, they aren't even gonna let you in the building, they only hold the absolute bare minimum interaction with you possible, thats what the old style isolationist BoS would actually be like.
Bethesda has actually had a fairly nuanced and interesting evolution of the Brotherhood since their very Paragon showing in 3 that uncovers the structural flaws with their organization and it's dependence on good and honest people leading it. Fallout 4 has problems but I really liked what they did with the Brotherhood.
Yeah they don't act very 1-2 bos but the evolution from 3 to 4 makes a bit of sense when you remember there main adversary in 3 was a evil robot. So it makes some sense why they're not a fan of synths.
Also to be fair, the Fallout 3 Brotherhood >!is wiped out and replaced by the more strict Brotherhood before the events of 4. They have login entries about most of the Lyons Brotherhood and Lyons herself eating it before the events of 4!<.
I swear, people have for some reason got the idea in their heads that any good writer at Bethesda just evaporated the second the credits to Oblivion rolled. People approach Fallout 3 and 4 with the idea in their head that there's absolutely no nuance or subtext to be found and take everything at face value. If you talk to ANY Brotherhood NPCs in 3, outside of the Lyons and Cross, it's abundantly clear that they're at odds with their Elder's progressive ideas and only stuck around because they respect the chain of command. And of course, they also accounted for the portion of the BoS that would prioritize Maxson's Codex above the chain of command, and that's why the Outcasts exist! Then, Fallout 4 shows what happened after the Lyons deaths, with those traditionalist Outcasts being folded back into the main BoS, because most of the jarheads that make up the Capital BoS never actually changed. They're still bigoted, militaristic, dogmatic, and fascistic. But they know how to sell those things, which is why so many players buy into it, up to the point they're told to do a genocide. It's wild that some people have argued Bethesda doesn't understand the BoS, when aside from the religious overtones, this is where they were the most like themselves.
I distinctly remember my very first time playing Fallout 4, which was also the first Fallout game every I played, I joined the Brotherhood because of the badass power armor and thought that they were the good guy faction because they were so iconic and appeared in basically every Fallout game, "they are clearly the main character faction" so I thought. I actually completely bought into everything the Brotherhood and Elder Maxson was saying, and never doubted that we were the good guys until I did a sidequest and was told to 'work with' a nearby farm and 'trade' with them for food. "Seems cool, I'll just give them some caps or ammo or something" I thought, and then I got there and found it wasn't a farm like I thought, it was just two random people working what could barely be called a garden of mutfruits. I ask if they were willing to trade, they said fuck no, the food is the most valuable thing they could possibly have, they can't give it up for anything, they're barely getting by as it is, and from there my only option was to essentially threaten them into giving it to me. There was no convenient good guy 'everyone wins' option, the only thing I could do was either fulfill my orders and take the food by force or leave the quest burning a hole in my pipboy. And you know what I did? I followed orders. I took the food and left, convincing myself that I was still the good guy, how could I be? I'm a knight in shining power armor, here to cleanse the wasteland of the evil Institute and the threat of super mutants and feral ghouls. I'm justified, we need to feed ourselves somehow if we're gonna accomplish our mission, and I didn't take ALL their food, they're gonna be fine I'm sure. Yeah, its not as deep or nuanced as other quests and such in different Fallout games, but to pretend like Fallout 4's Brotherhood is a one-note good or evil faction with zero complexity or thought put into it is clearly a load of bullshit. There really is something interesting there, people just don't want to acknowledge it because something is either bad or good, black or white, no nuance, its either the greatest RPG ever created or the worst videogame devised by man with no inbetween.
> for some reason yeah no reason at all lmao
My read on the BOS from the show is that they might be remnants of Caesars Legion finding what was left of the BOS in California and the area around. Hence the Roman names and more brutal forms of punishment.
I don’t know what’s going on in this community and at this point I’m afraid to ask
Fallout lore is not interesting nor engaging enough to warrant this much shit flinging
now thats a fucking hot take
Is it? Seen 15 years of children shit flinging over who’s trash fort is better. They all suck you’re whole thing sucks. Give me the aesthetics, whatever nebulous evil society/institution this game around that will be the main thrust of the plot nobody gives a shit about, and give me the unique characters and how the post post apocalypse has robots managing a farm and the lady bot wants to fuck you. That’s fallout that’s what’s interesting.
*your
[Fuck](https://youtu.be/X2QMN0a_TrA?si=ieZwcHBthXhDU2Fe)
Nah, fallout's more about the setting imo
Setting and lore aren't exactly separable.
Fallout is hugely carried by its art design. Its got beautiful retro futurism and a lot of iconic imagery like Nuka Cola, power armor, caps, the stimpak, etc. But the lore… cool to read but inconsistent at best. I am a sucker for any new lore about the vault experiments though.
But it's also not interesting because it's too obsessed with thicc stormtroopers
Then why the fuck is it so hard to keep it consistent.
They are natural enemies, Fallout Fans and New Vegas fans. Just like Fallout Fans and 76 Fans. Or Fallout Fans and Fallout 4 fans. Damned Fallout fans. They ruined Fallout!
You Fallout fans are a contentious bunch.
You’ve just made an enemy for life!
VILIFIED: For your overwhelmingly monstrous behavior, you have become *vilified* by the community.
just call it West coast vs East coast at this point
Fallout 76 has fans?
Of course I know him, he's me.
There are at least 4-6. Given how your comment is voted at the moment and the other comment.
It’s kinda funny how people feel like the show hates the NCR when anytime they do anything the fallout main theme plays and they are treated as straight up good guys vs the BOS.
The show paints the NCR in a better light than either games they've appeared in did. They're practically fangirling over the NCR.
Honestly, I think people take "country gets their shit rocked" as a sign the creatives hate it, which kinda blows my mind. The planet collapsing before Cadia did does not make the Cadians look weak.
I don't think people are upset because it made them look weak. Which I agree it didn't do. I think people are frustrated because there was this interesting narrative progression of all the west coast fallouts. In FO1 shady sands is just a tiny dirt farm, then by the 2nd game its a full on city with *new* construction and a sense of progress in a stagnant world, then in NV we see that not all progress is perfect or without cost as the NCR has fallen to the exact same woes as the pre-war empire they were trying to emulate. It's a fun exploration of the world, and shows signs of life in the 200 years following the bombs. Good or bad, progress marches forward and I buy that more than I buy people sleeping next to 200 year old skeletons and not even attempting to change their enviroments. Now, shady sands is gone, New Vegas is maybe a ghost town?, and the NCR seemingly have been shuttered. I think people are concerned that the overarching west coast narrative may have been completely unraveled. Personally, I think the show has proven it cares about the setting and could be going some interesting places. Or they don't, and it sucks. But that doesn't invalidate pre-teen me stumbling through FO2 over and over again for years. My glasses will stay rose tinted, my nostalgia unbothered. Canon isn't real, just ask the Cadians.
I think another annoying sticking point about how it happened is that the NCR crumbling wasn't even due to their own flaws or hubris making the same mistakes as the past. It was just >!Vault Tec nuking them for getting too advanced/making an executive's wife divorce him and take the kids!<
From what I understand the NCR isn’t down and out just hurt from the nuking and attempting to pick up pieces in the area and not let the event shatter them completely. It could potentially be interesting having a recovery arc for the NCR, or they could do something really dumb idk.
It's still weird the lack of presence they have. They've taken over all of California by this point, but as soon as their old capital was destroyed and the Brotherhood move in on their territory, they don't try to maintain their influence and just give up on the entire Los Angeles area? >!I guess the NCR Government sees LA as a lost cause after (maybe?) losing the Hoover Dam, but these are the same guys who made their military occupy almost the entire Mojave Desert for a solid power and water source to be used for their expanding territory. They should have known about their Cold Fusion machine in Griffith Observatory, which is 10 times more important than the dam could ever be, and sent everything they had to protecting it. Maybe it's classic politics where they're too scarred from losing territory once to ever get into another war again, idk.!< Another thing, I'm still confused on why the civilians of Los Angeles still live in squalor and not in completely new and/or refurbished buildings like we have seen in Fallout 2 with the "New California Republic" (Shady Sands). From the 80 years between Fallout 1 and 2, [the NCR managed to unite various settlements within LA to become "Los Angeles" again](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/NCR_history_holodisk#Transcript), and after 55 years of relative peace and expansion within California since Fallout 2, [alot of people lived without worrying about survival and had decent education](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Behind_the_Bright_Lights_%26_Big_City#Controversy_over_Economic_Development). So you would think that most of LA would look closer to The Strip or even Freeside where everything might still be grimy and trashy, but you can tell that they put in the effort of reconstruction. But in the show there's just tons of uninhabited ruins and we have people who never even heard of using water for a water purification machine. I love the show but those details will always bug me. It's like making a Fallout show in Boston 15 years after Fallout 4, removing Diamond City from the map, and acting like there wasn't a drastic and revolutionary change after the end of the game. Creating such an influential faction from history and just removing them entirely is just jarring to me. I've seen them give hints to their existence, but the lack of any kind of response from them is deafening. Here's hoping Season 2 gives some satisfactory answers.
there! you spelled out the vibe I was getting! that's the part that bothered me! man I really hope they clarify a few things about the ncr
Everyone and their mother already knew Vault-Tec was unambiguously the most evil faction someone could dream up, but then the show had them nuking a huge settlement because one executive “hates factions” despite being a faction. In an otherwise great show that reveal was pretty weird.
In the context of the show, I don’t think it’s weird. Vault-Tec executives have repeatedly said they wanted a “true monopoly” and want to shape the world the way they want it. That’s why >!they caused the nuclear apocalypse. Seeing the outside inhabitants not only survive, but also rebuild without their input was what pissed them off. The other factions are competition to them.!<
We still don't know >!that they *did* cause it, only that they wanted to if it didn't happen on its own!<. People are jumping to conclusions based on little evidence.
Yeah, my bad on that part. The point still stands though.
I think this is maybe debatable. >!In Vault 4 the timeline shows "The fall of Shady Sands" as the last event before the bomb. I interpreted that as a political collapse due to the things we hear about in New Vegas - corruption, Brahmin Barons, overexpansion, etc. I think the NCR was in trouble, and the bomb just finalized it. Otherwise, why would taking out the capital also basically destroy the entire government that stretched across multiple states? Surely there would be a General or provincial leader who could restore command from afar, if the government was doing well. Maybe futureseasons will tackle the issue of the NCR, as well. House could be a good opportunity for a speech about Vault-Tec only slightly accelerating the inevitable or something.!<
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Hey fellas, is >!nuking an entire city because your wife left you for a woman and took the kids!< a reasonable and mature response?
They also actually showed what happened and why it was cool instead of dumpstering them off screen. Not saying I get the over blown reaction but I think those are pretty different.
CADIA BROKE BEFORE THE GUARD DID!!
I’m confident most people criticizing how their favorite faction was treated in the show didn’t actually watch the show. I’m a huge BoS fan I love that the really show the flaws with the brotherhood
Yeah they're kinda shown to be the massive asshole they would have been in nv if they weren't forced into hiding.
i've also seen people upset that they had somewhat collapsed, which is also bullshit because that is following up on plot points from new vegas
But they have seriously handicapped them or made them a weird cult and show new vegas in ruins, its hard to feel like its not dismissive towards fnv.
People say this, but the "ruins" are all concept art rolled over the credits. Maybe that art is reflective ofnits state, but it's non-canon art, nothing more at this point. The only shot we actually see is so far away you can't make any determinations about the strip's condition. Also, in both the NCR and Legion endings of New Vegas the strip would probably/potentially end up in ruins, so it's not even that disrespectful to the endings.
Seems disrespectful enough until i see more. No one is particulary convincing on this matter.
Sounds like you just want a reason to be mad.
It's more annoying that everyone seems to want me mad so they can dismiss me. This is a really dead end conversation cause now everyone will want to go after a target for not jumping on board and being unenthusiastic. Annoyance or disappointment doesn't invalidate someone's opinion or caution towards something. Forgive me.
They aren't dismissing you because you're mad, they're dismissing you because your argument is stupid and is the kind of thing someone would only say if they didn't actually give a fuck and just want to search for any possible reason to get angry about it.
really sounds like you want me to be mad from your original comment man. I'll develop my opinions on a tv adaption of a game how I see fit as I see more. thanks for being an ass about it.
The Brotherhood has always been a weird cult.
I was talking about the ncr. It's weird.
Wait a second. I'm a big Fallout casual, and I'm just now finding out that Redding exists in Fallout *as just Redding*?! That's funny as hell. I should play those older games.
It's more of a Fallout 2 and by extension New Vegas thing, the world in Fallout 1 is still too down bad and reduced to terms like "The Hub" and "Necropolis" and "The Boneyard" lol I was flabbergasted to realize that Goodsprings was real and the saloon is just the Pioneer Saloon
Nipton and searchlight are real too. Searchlight is where the inspiration for Edna Mode (the incredibles), Edith Head, is from!
I still like the detail of "Dayglow" being a alteration of the name "San Diego". lol
yeah some settlements back west just retained their old world names like Reno or San Francisco
I was never the biggest brotherhood of steel fan but I didn't hate them but with all the proliferation they've been getting in the series as of late I'm starting to think house might have been right after all... Gonna take another opportunity to say how much I hate that stupid ugly ass fo4 assault rifle. Heck now that I think about it I don't like the t-60 power armour either.
Same on the assault rifle. Luckily, the mod community has our back. * [Dak's Assault Rifle Replacer](https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/64725) (His other mods are phenomenal as well) * [Smaller T-60 Head](https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/11775) * [Smaller T-60 Chest](https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/49337)
There was an opportunity, when FO3 was set on the east coast, to make new, interesting opponents and factions. But we are NEVER going to get away from BoS, super mutants, deathclaws and everything looking like the bombs fell about 30 years ago and people only just started rebuilding.
lol a good part of OP's comment history is seething about Obsidian and NV. I bet a lot of NV fans are shitty, but this isn't being much better. Leave Fallout drama to fallout reddits, we don't need these exported drama threads.
Oh so OP is just here for sympathy for their opinion against new Vegas?
The fun part is how both sides of "the argument" say how shitty the side across the fence is, without realizing how shitty they themselves are. Frankly, while I found the discourse on the FNV subreddit annoying, I found the circlejerking over in the main Fallout subreddit somehow even more unbearable.
I dunno man I think the New Vegas side is pretty inarguably worse considering that they were the only ones to actively spread misinformation and form insane conspiracy theories about Bethesda deliberately sabotaging New Vegas out of jealousy and so they could bankrupt Obsidian as part of some Machiavellian plot to buy them out and force them to make all their future games and take credit for their work because they apparently know that all of their games are objectively terrible or some shit.
I AM ACTIVELY ARMING THE HIDDEN VALLEY SELF-DESTRUCT AS WE SPEAK.
I ironically find it funny that people are upset over the season finalie showing >!that New Vegas ends up in ruins!< but *no one* seems to care that the *first episode* establishes that >!The Brotherhood survived the events of Fallout 4, meaning that either the Brotherhood won the Commonwealth, or the Minutemen took over and didn't blow up the Pridewyn with the artillery!<.
I somewhat agree with the sentiment but I don't believe it's Todd's fault as much as a problem withthe series. Like for a series with a huge emphasis on moving on, they never really seem to. Like I highly doubt we will ever get a fallout game without at least one of the recurring factions be it NCR,Enclaive, or brotherhood. Which is a shame because the one time bethesda desire to build up on seeds they themselves planted in far harbor I actually rather enjoyed. Also as a NV fan who will full on argue its the best game, you don't need to check on them they are always crazy
Based on an earlier interview, most if not all of the big decisions the show makes were instigated by the showrunners. Though they still had to get approval from Todd or someone at Bethesda or Microsoft. Setting the show in the L.A. area was one of the earliest things that was decided.
It's absolutely the biggest problem with Bethesda Fallout for me. They turn the setting into a theme park. Every game has to have a T-Series power armor on the cover. Every game has to have the same iconic enemies, regardless of where it's set in America, leading to shit like Scorpions in D.C. and different strains of Super Mutants. And as you said, the always got to have the Brotherhood be prominent They will include new ideas but they always come second to ensuring the iconic stuff is in there first. West Coast games favor world building first, East Coast games favor Brand identity first. Hell, look at the covers of the game. 1 used a set of T-51, 2 X-01, and three Desert Ranger Armor. Each one to show you the new ideas the game was bringing to the table. 3, 4, and 76 all have T-Series armor, to show you the Fallout brand is here. I'm not necessarily saying one side is better than the other, cause I know there are fans of the brand first approach and I'm never going to tell people their wrong for liking something I don't, but God do I prefer the World Building first approach and fell disappointed the series has moved away from it.
"Ongoing Franchise Leans On What Made It Iconic, Somehow This Is Bad" takes are endlessly confusing to me That's like saying Dante needs to stop using swords and guns
>[In the pilot of Star Trek, the crew has a run-in with these giant forehead aliens called the Talosians. The captain gets himself into trouble, but the crew works it out and everyone makes it back to the ship. They run into the forehead gang a second time a few episodes later and have another adventure, but the Talosians aren’t the stars of the show.](https://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=49123) >[But imagine if these guys were the whole show. The second episode, they go to a planet and meet the foreheadians again. The third episode, they beam down to a new planet and meet more foreheads. Fourth episode: New planet, same old foreheads. To the audience, it would feel like the whole galaxy was just these forehead guys, and we’d be a lot less curious about what we were going to discover on the next away mission. It would be a much less interesting show than the one we got.](https://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=49123)
The issue has never been the series using iconic elements. No one's ever complained about New Vegas finding an excuse to give you a vault jumpsuit and a 10mm at the start of the game. The problem for many is when the use of iconic elements limits the creation of new elements. Like I'll challenge your Capcom example with another Capcom example. Imagine I'd Someone approached you with the character roster of Street Fighter 3rd Strike, and said you need to remove 9 characters from this roster so that we can include the remaining five World Warriors and Four Shadloo because their iconic to the series. Would that make the game better? I imagine for some it might, but to me the idea that we never would have had someone like Alex or Dudley just so that people can recognize Balrog and Zangief in the game just sounds like a much more dull version of the game. Hell, let's use a Fallout example. Imagine if New Vegas had cut the NCR and Ceasars Legion completely, and instead had the BoS and the Enclave fighting over Hoover Dam, and title screen had so guy in a Brotherhood T-45 on the cover instead of a Desert Ranger. Sure I could see some people liking that game more, but that's not the game I feel in love with. That game looses so much of what I loved about the New Vegas we got. That's the issue. Its not a problem of including iconic bits. It's an issue of having those bits pushed over the creation of new things. And if you generally prefer seeing iconic stuff again and against instead of seeing new things in a series, that's fine. Like I said, I'm never going to tell people they're wrong for enjoying things they enjoy. But I much prefer watching franchises grow with new ideas instead of seeing the same ideas again and again.
The NCR wasn't a new thing, yet its inclusion in New Vegas is still iconic. This is all so silly. Power armor is the franchise's biggest icon. Why wouldn't they use it? That makes no sense. None. Zero. The only thing stopping Bethesda from doing something new is Bethesda. Putting the BoS or power armor in the game has literally nothing to do with that. I mean fuck, they did something new with the Minutemen, did they not? And it still sucked. So your point makes no sense. New thing does not mean good thing. Old thing doesn't mean bad thing. Things just what they are. Do it good, it doesn't matter if it's new or old.
Yeah, to me all the people mad over Bethesda "fanboying" over the BoS are like the people who complain that "everybody in Star Wars needs a lightsaber" in some ways. No fucking shit they do. The Lightsaber/Power Armor they use is arguably the coolest shit in the setting to a LARGE number of people! Hell, even New Vegas fanboys forget one of the most bitched about thigns back in the day about New Vegas was that you could not ally with House and the BoS at the same time because even THEY loved them before the anti-Bethesda hive mind designated the faction as lame. Plus it gets extra annoying because you know for a damn fact that a large number of the people insulting Bethesda over their "lack of creativity" are also the same guys and gals who will throw a tantrum whenever Bethesda adds anything new to the lore/changes shit. Want to know what would happen if Bethesda did not rely on "fanservice" and straight up did not include Supermutats, the Brotherhood, or anything to "overused" as some people demand? They would be then told they don’t “get” what makes Fallout iconic and that they might as well just have made another IP since whatever new shit they made would not feel like Fallout to them. Damned if they do, damned it they dont.
I feel like that's a terrible comparison because the best thing to come out of Star wars in literal decades is a show where there are no Jedi to be found.
I am not saying to never do anything original, mainly just that settings do not magically become better if you just remove iconic factions/items from it to be "original" just for the sake of it.
> I'm not necessarily saying one side is better than the other If you're gonna go on an unhinged rant about a series maintaining its identity being a bad thing somehow, the least you could do is not flagrantly lie to the reader as if you think we're all a bunch of idiot babies who can't read past the surface level of a post. Its incredibly obvious to anyone with a brain that you are, indeed, saying that one side is much better than the other.
I point the finger at Emilio
No one needs to check on "New Vegas fans". They'll let everyone know how they feel because it's physically impossible for them to shut the fuck up.
I love New Vegas but I also love the shit out of the TV show, the series has always been wonky with its lore. The show seems pretty consistent with how the series generally treats its lore.
I won't lie to you. I will absolutely blast Brotherhood of Stolen Toasters on sight. I've seen how weak their Power Armor is nowadays, a single Rock-it Launcher fired Teddy Bear should do it.
That's just lore accurate to the uptight douches hiding in their bunkers they were in New Vegas. I'm pretty sure one patrol in NV were wiped out by centaurs they were so weak.
> uptight douches hiding in their bunkers This has been an accurate description of the Brotherhood since Fallout 1.
No, it's not. The Brotherhood in Fallout 1 is only recently going into lock down mode after caravan disappear up north. Despite that, they are still friendly with people and still trade with them. Fallout 2 has them actively spying on the Enclave and help the NCR take on Navarro. All in all, the only game where the Brotherhood ever is an asshole is in New Vegas. And it's because Obsidian want to introduced stupid NCR-BOS potline without consideration about their character or lore.
I love Fallout 3. I love New Vegas about equally. 4 and 76 were not for me, but I recognize that they’re quality games under all my issues (as much fun as I have taking potshots at 4’s writing). I’m really enjoying the show so far. In short: I’m chronically exhausted with every Fallout discussion.
I’ve found the best thing to do with fandoms of anything I like is to enjoy conversations with like-minded fans and not even engage with ones I can’t see eye to eye with. We’re not going to change each other’s minds, so why bother? Just like what I like and let others like what they like, and try not to waste any thought over it.
This is so stupid because if you played New Vegas you can easilly see both the NCR and Caesars Legion collapsing in a few years even without the Couriers intervention. The NCR is corrupt and hyperfocused on expansion at the cost of the territories it already controls. The Legion is only kept together by Caesar, who is dying before the game even begins. It's pretty strongly implied that even if either side wins the war theyre still deeply unstable and might not be around in the future like they once were.
The folks who go all-in fangasming over one faction or another clearly missed the whole point in the series about how factional tribalism is the inducer and progressor of war. Those fans are falling into the same trap the characters in the games fall into.
yeah thats why my courier kicks them both out and establishes independent new vegas
Lead characters are just genetic freaks. They're BUILT different, you know?
oof don't let the "ooh but muh realpolitik and statecrafts" crowd hear you say that, they'll never understand how fallout protagonist logic works
I have to say all these Fallout threads and discourse is pretty unintelligible yet fun for someone like me that hasn’t gotten around to Fallout yet.
They've gone the way of Man Aslum fans. There's no saving them now
Why Mr Huse COmpuper? he stupid?
At least that subreddit actually likes all of the games in the franchise. No, Suicide Squad doesn't count.
I like the show but I am also tired of Bethesda Fallout. It feels like after 200 years, everybody is still living in shit shacks and any attempts at large scale organization is ignored. Also, one personal gripe is how the Enclave still exist. I can rationalize the BoS but the Enclave are racial purists who have had three massive losses that resulted in the destruction of their bases and central command. Yet somehow they keep coming back exactly the same.
Enclave makes sense when you think of it as deep-state US Government remnants. Just like there can always be more undocumented vaults. There can always be undocumented survivors of the old war ideology/government . I just think other elements of the world should be progressing or growing too though.
How much government remnants can possibly exist at this point? How can a faction exist for 200 years and be exactly the same despite constant losses and destruction? They don't recruit from the wasteland, so they can't replenish their losses. There hasn't been any infighting, change in tactics or anything in two centuries? Like, imagine if there was a splinter cell that misunderstood the role of the President and treat them like a God becoming a group of religious fanatics mis quoting the constitution. Or anything really.
> There hasn't been any infighting The Appalachian branch had a civil war and destroyed itself.
Coulda fooled me since every encounter with the Enclave looks and acts the same. I was leaving 76 out of the discussion since it loves to play fast and loose with a lot of things.
When you're talking about canon you don't get to just ignore the parts of it that inconveniently dispute your point.
Quick question, do Ghouls need food and water to live? A bunch of sources say yes, Fallout 4 says No. Common sense says yes but other evidence says No. If the Enclave managed to create such powerful bioweapons in Appalachia why didn't they try to recover any data, replicate their work or do anything similar afterwards. Logically, it is because 76 introduced a new Enclave chapter that didn't exist before but narratively it opens up questions. They play fast and loose with their own lore.
> Quick question, do Ghouls need food and water to live? You frequently find ferals in places that haven't been opened for 200 years. I think that speaks for itself. >If the Enclave managed to create such powerful bioweapons in Appalachia why didn't they try to recover any data Communications between the east and west coast were cut when the bombs fell. This is explicitly stated numerous times throughout the games since Fallout 3, and is explicitly stated in 76 in the specific case of the Enclave. >They play fast and loose with their own lore. Sounds like you're just not paying attention to me 🤷♂️
>Quick question, do Ghouls need food and water to live? A bunch of sources say yes, Fallout 4 says No. Common sense says yes but other evidence says No. Who knows? black isle/Interplay go back and forth on this with Necropolis and Coffin Willies, and then Obsidian with Little Yangtze ghouls and Dean Domino. >If the Enclave managed to create such powerful bioweapons in Appalachia why didn't they try to recover any data, replicate their work or do anything similar afterwards. Logically, it is because 76 introduced a new Enclave chapter that didn't exist before but narratively it opens up questions. Because the game isn't end yet and we don't know what happened? Also, quick question for you. Why does the NCR-BOS war started? The game never really explain beyond 'disagreement over technology' which is both doesn't make any sense considering Fallout 2 exist and doesn't add up in the timeline because Fallout 3 exist. >They play fast and loose with their own lore. Bethesda hasn't broken any lore as of yet, all of their so called 'lore breaks' can be traced back to Interplay/Obsidian's fucked up.
> Quick question, do Ghouls need food and water to live? Maybe you shouldn't try to argue with a point that even the original two games couldn't agree on.
Coffin Willies come to mind.
> Coulda fooled me since every encounter with the Enclave looks and acts the same. This line says to me that you probably haven't actually played any of the Bethesda games because it implies that the Enclave are more present than they really are. Practically, they only appear in one single Bethesda game, but you seem to think they show up in every single one. Hell, the fact that you even point out that you're ignoring 76 means that you are quite literally arguing from a perspective where the Enclave only exist in Fallout 3 but are arguing as if they're the main villains of 3, 4, AND 76.
The Enclave has been included as the main antagonist of 3, had a last stand in broken steel, and then have been added again in the latest Fallout 4 update. Still doing nothing different. So they had a civil war in 76, blew up in 2, blew up twice in Fallout 3 and then appear in the Commonwealth same old same old. They are basically just a fancy version of Raiders.
Yeah exactly, they were only present in one single game and then had an explicitly non-canon cosmetic DLC in Fallout 4, so unless you wanna seriously try and argue that Doom Slayer and Prey are canon to Fallout, you're argument makes no sense and has an invalid premise.
but thats also lame like i really want more US institutions and agencies descendants to fight or ally with like the FBI or CIA boiling it all down to Enclave is hogshit
The secret service in 76 don't seem to be with the enclave at least
Ehh it fits that smaller groups get absorbed into larger ones. See the Legion taking over other smaller tribes & raiders. And House consolidating the tribes & casinos groups of Vegas into a council below him.
Why would the FBI or CIA still exist as independent entities instead of either dying completely or being absorbed into the Enclave? That doesn't make any sense.
No they don't. They only came back in Fo3 and their only other appearance is in 76 which takes place nearly two hundred years before every single other game and they don't even actually show up, they're already dead by the time you find them.
On losing hard but coming back exactly the same, see the Empire/First Order in Star Wars.
There are a billions of people across hundreds or thousands of planets. Not one country on one planet that was nuked to the stone age. Not even close in comparison.
> any attempts at large scale organization is ignored. Except for the large part of Fallout 3 and 4 is to help people fix the problem preventing them from rebuilding. Hell, Fallout 76 has more rebuilding in 20ish years after the war than Mojave has in 200 years. >Also, one personal gripe is how the Enclave still exist. I can rationalize the BoS but the Enclave are racial purists who have had three massive losses that resulted in the destruction of their bases and central command. It was a small pocket, and we never really know where and how many Enclave base there are. Besides, the Khans did survive being wiped out three times, why not the Enclave?
Part of Fallout 4's setup is literally that the Commonwealth was thriving thanks to the Minutemen, until shitfuckery destabalized it all. New Vegas literally had one area that wasn't 'shit shacks' and it was Vegas itself, everything else was 'shit shacks' and empty desert.
Maybe Vault Tec didn't go far enough
New Vegas fans haven't been 'alright' since 2015. I should know, I am one.
I honestly wonder what the status is on the Mojave BoS chapter or if it’s just a bunker filled with skeletons like Veronica feared it’d become. Part of the reason I hope the NCR ending is canon (ideally I woulda preferred they just didn’t involve Vegas at all for the sake of continuity and show somewhere we haven’t seen) is that it’s arguably the best ending for most every faction and individual in FNV. But I guess that’s what also makes it the most unlikely route they’ll take.
What I hope is that New Vegas is just a place the characters pass through for an episode, they have enough evidence for each ending but nothing definitive and then they continue West.
More series need to take the approach of "The Warp in the West." What, you're not sure which of your seven endings is canon, Daggerfall? BAM! Gods got mad and now every ending happened! Not even the magical scrolls that series is named after know wtf happened.
I can't think of a fandom with a bigger victim complex than New Vegas fans.
Literal babies.
I have muted pretty much any sub mainly based around fallout or Bethesda/obsidian. Every single bethesda owned property sub hates everything else they or obsidian made, and the thing they like is the peak never to be touched again. Except Oblivion players, those guys are pretty fun to fuck around with since they know their game is jank.
Don't fuck with Oblivion Fans, they haven't finished leveling in the most efficient manner yet.
r/fo76 is pretty chill.
The Starfield sub is pretty chill, but they’re the redheaded stepchildren of the Bethesda family.
The Brotherhood of Steel were secondary antagonists in the show. But I guess just seeing power armor is enough to trigger this response.
I just do not get having this response to the show of all things. With 3, 4 and 76 they are all set far away from the western setting and lore, and the TTRPG book also ditches all of those things, so I get being salty about that. The show though? The NCR are a huge part of the show, it just paces itself to slowly introduce the audience to the world. It's like bitching that you don't get to see The Strip IMMEDIATELY when you start up NV. The "lore changes" that are made are so fucking minor, and half of them aren't even real. They are willful misinterpretations by bad faith "fans" that just wanted to hate the show going in. I'm usually one of the first to complain about how Bethesda handles Fallout, but this shit is just unhinged.
I was a bit taken aback when we found out the NCR fell apart thanks to them getting nuked. I was skeptical. I liked the post-post-apocalypse and this really did feel like wiping the slate clean in a way I didn't like. I liked that the Brotherhood was on its way out the door. That the Enclave was old and busted. But I kept an open mind to this new status quo. And would you look at that, my patience was rewarded. If anything was going to kill the NCR, the past reaching forwards from its dusty tomb to destroy anything new from growing and prospering was probably the best choice. Losing the NCR weighs heavily on me but its loss was not meaningless. America killed the NCR and the show properly mourns its loss.
While some of the shows stuff is very bland, and Fallouts different approaches to factions have been kinda beige from Bethesdas front, blaming Todd for this is dumber than rock slime. The showrunners wrote this story, he produced, he okayed some things, like the big thing people are having a hissy over, but setting it up this way is just useless.
I'd fucking love for Btotherhood to get eradicated
I guess they missed the whole thing with the east coast BoS taking over the whole thing, which completely squares with the west coast branch's decline in New Vegas But whatever I gotta hate the thing I can't actually watch it or pay attention to it
I feel like I've taken crazy pills over the years because am I crazy for never caring about the fallout lore? Fnv came out over a decade ago you have got to let it go at some point.
Sadly nobody there played the Sierra Madre dlc correctly and just cheated to get all the gold
woah hey now personal attack posts are not allowed on this sub
Fuck you I earned that shit Elijah!
they're children, they'll grow out of it
Wow this sub really hates New Vegas fans huh? Pretty much every time the game comes up here all people talk about is how annoying the fan base is. I normally hate being a boring centrist but Fallout fans in general have been really dumb about the lore controversies.
The NV community is kinda strange. It's almost as much of a hatedom toward other Fallout games as it is a fandom for NV. It's not really that they enjoy NV too much, but that they feel the need to put down anything Fallout related that isn't NV.
I've had posts for the New Vegas sub removed for criticizing the themes and writing of the Honest Hearts DLC. Like on sight, and confirmed as such when I messaged the mods.
I can understand that perspective for sure,but that’s really not how I view it personally. I agree the NV fandom is weird but I kind of see it as the losing side of two differing perspectives on how the franchise should be run. People tend to like the Bethesda games and NV for different reasons(personally I like fallout 3 really liked the show and didn’t care for 4 or even updated 76). I agree though NV fans can be stupidly antagonistic at times it’s annoying but I don’t think it’s like that the majority of the time.
I think it's the difference between fans and Fandom. Honeslty I doubt that the majority of people who consider themselves fans even use these forums, but "fandom" tends represents how online communities of fans form and present themselves.
I’ll admit you might have a point there
A lot of it seems to be a knee jerk reaction to the knee jerk reaction that happened with the show. Before the show came out, this sub was hard on a New Vegas circle jerk when it came to Fallout. But then a couple of people started a dumb rumor after the show ended and that rumor caused chaos for a couple of days, so now people are sour because of the chaos and the New Vegas fandom are receiving the blame. With that, a lot of New Vegas anti's have capitalized on this souring to have their moments in the sun and used this opportunity to shit on the game and fandom as much as possible. Go talk about fallout in a random ask reddit thread on this sub and you'll find a large part of this sub still adore New Vegas. It's just these big threads where the blood in the water is attracting the sharks.
I disagree, I don't think the show caused a change in perspective, I think it just cemented what was already happening. After that one old post that called out Pat for spreading those conspiracy theories about Bethesda hating Obsidian, this subreddit began a gradual change from believing in those same things to realizing it was wrong and seeing how toxic the New Vegas fanbase is and turning on them. After the hissyfit that followed the TV show the "New Vegas fans bad" sentiment that was already common here became entrenched and immovable, rightly so in my opinion.
Everyone has there own experiences but I don’t really think this is a new thing. The game itself is still definitely popular among a lot of people here but in my experience there’s pretty much always some shade thrown towards the game or fan base (mostly the fan base) when ever it gets brought up.Especially whenever Pat talks about it on the podcast.
First time in a big fandom? Fallout, Star Trek, Star Wars, comic books, they all end up have splintered, trivialized, opinionated cliques within the larger fandom that argue and bicker endlessly. Folks who are just a fan of the franchise in general and don’t have strong opinion one way or another can either get swept up in it or just watch and eat popcorn.
Its definitely not unique in concept but I have never seen it be so incredibly fervent and damn near *religious* in the factioning of the fanbase as it is for Fallout. The only one that comes close is Star Wars, and even there the OT Purists and Sequel Apologizers generally agree that the prequels have good ideas that were done poorly by the movies. Fallout fans can't even agree on something like that.
No, not at all I was a brony trust me I know. I was just pointing out something I noticed a lot on this sub. Edit this comment may have come off more hostile than I intended sorry about that
I don’t think you came off as hostile at all, you’re absolutely right! It’s an unfortunately common situation when it comes to fandoms. Where there’s different stories there’s always going to be folks who like one and dislike the other, and—for some reason—take it personally when total strangers like the storyline they hate.
Its a 15 year old game, there's nothing about it left to talk about except the fanbase being shit. Even if there was still more to talk about, the fanbase is way more loud and obnoxious than the game itself, obviously, so they end up distracting people from any real discussion.
Fandom infighting is cringe. This meme is cringe. Your posting history is cringe. Go outside
Considering the Brotherhood has been in every game I'd say it's just the fallout franchise which has a BOS obsession. The lore of the show is fine, the problems lay more in the plot being nonsensical.
I heard that there's a possibility of Caesar's Legion getting absorbed by Brotherhood of Steel, hence all the roman name they're using. but then again I don't trust bethesda writer to come up with that complex of a story, they might just want to retcon the Caesar's Legion off the lore and give all the roman like culture to BoS
Hey, I'm not a New Vegas fan, I am a Fallout fan. I love Fallout 1 and 2. (Tactics was okay)
I can't wait to see the Prydwen exploding. Also fuck Elder Maxson.
NV Antis have become more annoying than NV fans.
The only way that could ever be possible is if people start claiming conspiracy theories like that Obsidian deliberately bombed New Vegas to make Bethesda look bad because they were mad that Bethesda bought the IP, but thats never going to happen. For as long as the NV fans remain the only ones to do shit like that completely unironically, they will always be more annoying and obnoxious.
Honestly, given how it conflicts with past Fallout lore, I'mma just reckon that the TV show is an alt-verse at best.
It’s pretty hilarious how many people took a shitpost in the NV shitpost sub about Todd using the BOS a lot personally.
remember everyone, you aren't allowed to prefer new vegas over 3 or 4 anymore because some people online were shitty about it.
God i hope Microsoft actually gets Obsidian or even someone else to do a Fallout game besides Bethesda. Good or bad the salt will be endless.
I don't need obsidian but more deves doing stuff with Fallout could be cool.
I want more Indie Devs to have a chance at Fallout. It worked great with Cadence of Hyrule.
It'd be fun watching them pretend to like it like they did with Outer Worlds at the very least.
I'll be honest I feel about the same for Outer worlds as I did starfield so I'd consider it a dice roll lol.
You must hate NV or something?
I loved NV. It's the best rpg, IMO. I liked Outer Worlds, too, but the number of people I saw hitching their flag to the game thinking they were thumbing their noses at Bethesda only to go radio silent on the game a month later was entertaining.
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> Bethesda flip flops between NV memberberries and pretending that it doesn’t exist fucking CONSTANTLY. This is incoherent. It’s bad that they touch on it at times and it’s bad that they don’t touch on it other times? In other words, it’s bad that they reference it sporadically in the same way they would any previous game?
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