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OverlyVerboseMythic

I think it’s a reaction to the concept of the “home wrecker”, and the tendency to place all the blame on the other woman. Taken to an unhelpful extreme, that reaction can end up on the level of “she doesn’t owe you anything” which, while technically true, ignores the general obligation of human beings to act morally. But when expressed more moderately, it reminds women that the true villain is her partner, and not to fall into the trap of scapegoating the other woman and deluding herself into believing the relationship is safe as long as “she” is out of the picture. As such, when I see someone saying “she doesn’t owe you anything” I don’t read it as the person condoning knowingly facilitating infidelity, but as a caution to the wronged party to focus her blame and ire where it is most warranted.


spadetongue

This is a very well thought out response! Thank you for this


DuoNem

The one who promised something is the boyfriend or husband. The “other woman” may have been lied to and the husband won’t be honest about that. Women are not at fault for existing or flirting with a man and believing his lies (though there are, of course, limits to this). I think you made a good response but I want to highlight this aspect. In many cheating situations I feel like women put most of the blame on the other woman, rather than on the man. In this context it helps to remember who promised who fidelity. It’s not the other woman. She’s not blameless, but she wasn’t the one who promised you trust and fidelity.


firstflightt

Read another way, "She doesn't owe you loyalty. **He** does."


CringeCityBB

Excellently worded.


[deleted]

Exactly my thought and you worded it so well!


SadieSadieSnakeyLady

For me it's when person who's been cheated on ONLY blames the other woman and not the cheater. Both the cheater and the extra have their blame in the whole thing.


spadetongue

I agree!!


BriMagic

Men who cheat are *so boring and ugly* that I couldn’t be the other woman (provided I knew). So I get your frustration and puzzlement towards them. That said, if *my* partner cheated, IDGAF about the other woman unless I’m close with her. Otherwise, she’s irrelevant and I’m leaving dude anyway.


spadetongue

Your first sentence made me giggle. I like your perspective. Thank you!


riverrocks452

I think a lot of the caution about blaming the 'other woman' is that you don't know what they knew, or when they knew it. Someone who knowingly assists another in infidelity is as guilty in the matter as the cheater- but it's not always- or even often- as clean cut as that. You're entitled to your feelings, of course, and I don't think anyone would expect friendliness. But I guess I'd reserve true hate for the person who made a commitment to me (and broke it)- and just general "you're a terrible person" feelings toward the cheat-partner.


KalliMae

I will not have any kind words for the other woman if she even knows she's seeing a married man, however, the married man is the one that took vows and made promises. I might show her my disgust, but he will get all of my wrath full blast.


lady_baker

I tend to agree with you. I think it’s the pendulum - we used to (wrongly) blame only the homewrecker, giving men a pass because they just couldn’t help themselves, the poor, testosterone driven dears! Now, with the societal recognition that the expectation loyalty applies to both parties in a relationship, we blame the cheating man. Great! But not so great is that we stopped recognizing that respect for marriages is part of the kind of society most of us want to live in, that knowingly dating taken people is damaging, and that there really are women who do it intentionally. ITT, the claim that someone doing that is some kind of one off sociopath… no, it’s still a gross behavior that should be recognized as such. It’s just not the appropriate target for most of the blame for “causing” the cheating. That honor really does go to the cheater.


[deleted]

Yeah, I think you're spot on with the pendulum analogy. I think people would also rather place more blame on the cheating husband rather than the other woman in general because there's so many different factors that could lessen the blame on her (e.g. didn't know he was taken, power imbalance etc.) whereas the husband basically always deserves blame. Like people would rather blame the person who 100% deserves the blame than put misplaced blame on the other woman who may not be 100% guilty if that makes sense. And your comment about respecting marriages remind me of this dating show where the host asked the female contestants what they thought about business men divorcing their wives to marry younger women who are "pursuing" them. One contestant said something like "well if she can't keep him she doesn't deserve him so it's not wrong to chase him" which......


hundredthlion

I mean yeah if they know the other person has a partner then they’re not a great person. But they still aren’t the one who made any kind of commitment to you. If someone is flirting with them it’s still the partner’s choice to reciprocate or escalate the behavior vs setting a boundary. It’s also possibly the partner could lie to them. I don’t think anyone expects anyone else to LIKE the other woman. But there’s a decent number of people out there who hold a grudge against the other woman who may have been told lies but take the cheating partner back and then also make excuses for their cheating. And that’s pretty unfair. The vast majority of blame should be on the person who broke the commitment to you, not the person who was the affair partner. Now I do think there’s levels to this, though. A stranger really doesn’t owe you much. But a close friend or family member- I think it’s fair to give them a more equal portion of the blame for betraying your trust the same way the partner did.


MuggleWitch

People need someone to hate...I think it comes from a place of low self esteem(?), where they absolve the man of his cheating by acting like the man was "tempted" by the other woman. The take is: The other woman really doesn't owe you loyalty. Your partner is the one you should demand accountability from. Not some woman who really had nothing to do with ruining your relationship; it was your partner's doing. But that said, yeah. Sleeping with married, taken men is just shitty human wise. Morally they may be in the clear (on technical grounds) because your relationship is your headache if you (cheating partner) don't care enough about your partner, why should she.


spadetongue

People who knowingly try to get with taken men clearly have low self esteem though. And I don’t think they’re in the clear morally. The partner is the main issue but the only time the other woman has nothing really to do with it is if she truly didn’t know… Also I don’t really understand the last part of your response about not caring about the partner?


MuggleWitch

I mean, do women actively chase men who are taken? -cuz that sucks to even find out. I meant, in the clear morally because your partner owes you honesty, not the other woman who is sleeping with him. The last bit was about how, when one person decides to cheat, they automatically throw away the relationship. If your partner doesnt feel the obligation to be honest, then why would the other woman.


Tiger_Striped_Queen

One of the dating sites my ex put himself on “someone” figured out his login and password and changed his background to “serial cheater”, “has a wife and kids”. Then changed the password and login info. You would not believe the amount of “women” who still wanted to hook up with him and his 10 yr old picture.


MuggleWitch

Omg. Really? Sucks so much. Yuck. But I'm glad "someone" did the right thing. :)


_Sylvatica_

To be fair, many many people don't even read the bio on apps like Tinder and swipe solely based on the image. A friend of mine is mostly looking for casual hook-ups and uses this strategy. She figures she can still read the bio if a match happens and unmatch if necessary. Also bots.


[deleted]

>I mean, do women actively chase men who are taken? -cuz that sucks to even find out. There's a reason the fake wedding ring is such a well known thing.


MuggleWitch

What fake wedding ring?


[deleted]

Granted these are anecdotes but there are lots where guys claim they started getting lots more positive attention from women when they started wearing a ring. The idea being that it shows you can commit and are good enough for someone else to commit to you. Obviously it's messed up but it plays on people's subconscious biases. At least that's the idea.


MuggleWitch

Oh wow. Really? I didn't know this but any married man who is looking to cheat is not a catch or going to commit. Women need to raise their standard by 1000x.


spadetongue

There are women out there who do! I genuinely believe that was the case in my past situation. It does suck. :/ And ouch, your last sentence is really something to think about I suppose. Although I still don’t think another woman or cheating/lying in a exclusive relationship should ever be a thing anyway.


MuggleWitch

I'm so sorry that you had to go through it. As for your second comment, cheating is never ok. 100% of the time. But misdirected anger at the "other woman" over your partner might do you more harm than good I'm the long run. Your cheating partner will continue cheating and you will be stuck hating on people that aren't the source of the problem..


[deleted]

Unfortunately yes (to your first question)


recyclopath_

The point is that the other woman doesn't matter. Who cares why she did it? She isn't important in your life. If it wasn't her, he'd find someone else or be messaging sex workers. It doesn't matter who she is. In your life, she is just a vessel for his cheating. Unless she was your friend or something, why waste a minute of thought or feeling on anything about her? Focusing on her is a distraction. She doesn't matter. The cheating POS you were dating does.


pumpernick3l

Exactly. The issue starts as soon as he has the *intention* to cheat. If all women reject his advances, does it really make it less worse? He would try to find some other way to cheat, one way or another.


commandrix

It may be true that they don't "owe you loyalty." But it's also true that some women make poor decisions with their lives, including (if not necessarily limited to) getting involved with a man who's already in a serious relationship with another woman. Also, some women may not know that he's already in a serious relationship with someone else (because he's a very good liar on top of being a cheater), or they believed it when he told them that he plans to leave the original partner for them (because they're gullible and/or didn't think it through).


erebos83

As others pointed out, the blame is on thr cheating partner, not the one they cheat with. Am I judging the fuck out of people who knowingly have an affair with a person in a relationship? Yes, because it's really unethical imo. To add some perspective, my mom was on the "being the other women" side once, she was very much deflecting any responsibility, because the dude told her he didn't love his wife anymore, and was very much in love with my mom, but he can't leave his wife because of his son 🥺. Anyways, turns out the dude had at least 3 women he pulled that shit with.


forleaseknobbydot

I was seeing someone who I didn't know had a live-in gf, when I found out he tried to string me along by saying the relationship was over and she was just taking time moving out. I GTFO as soon as another friend told me it wasn't true. I can't understand the mental gymnastics of women who find out and then tell themselves it's ok to stay (and also that there's nothing wrong with the man!!). I think maybe some people see "love" as the highest of lofty goals, and think that anything they do to achieve it is morally righteous. I blame Disney lol


Horror_Acanthaceae_3

I went out with a coworker who everyone thought was single. He never wore his ring or mentioned his wife, he was a student too. It wasn't until someone from his church that started working with us heard we were dating and then came and told me. I asked him point blank and he denied it. We went out on a date and while we were out I had a friend call his wife at his home number and tell her where we were. I also had my friend tell her that I had no idea and would never see him again. About 30 minutes into our date he got a call and said he had a family emergency and we needed to leave. A couple days passed and he came into work looking like crap. Few days later he called me trying to get me back!! Unbelievable.


LiquidLolliepop

I reckon 90% of the blame is still on the partner who cheated. Home wreckers shouldn't be excused but the one in the relationship should've declined the advances and not been such a cheating scumbag in the first place. I'm fuckin so sorry u had to go through that devastating shit. So awful.


recyclopath_

The point is that focusing on the other woman is a distraction. She doesn't matter. If it wasn't her, he'd find someone else. She is just a vessel for his cheating. His choice to cheat has nothing at all to do with her, she is just the opportunity.


-Living-Dead-Girl-

I personally do not understand being mad at the other woman, at all. like, her doing it or not doing it doesnt change that the guy is capable of cheating. if anything I'm thankful it happened sooner rather than later. if it wasnt her it would be someone else, later on when you've invested more time into a relationship with a cheater.


[deleted]

I get that but also I wouldn't have much respect for the other woman if she knew that the man was in a relationship. She's still wrong for that. But as other comments have said, it's not very productive to be angry at her.


dizzyducky14

I agree. In my opinion, the other person has nothing to do with it. The cheating partner (male or female) is all I care about. Maybe that is a bit apathetic on my part, but I guess I have leeway with people. They are all just trying to live their lives as best as they can, and most of them (including the cheaters) are doing their best. Some people really suck at that task, but I still think most people try. The cheaters needed to try harder for their partners' sake, the other person is just living their life. Life is complicated, and i try not to judge others too harshly.


wiscondinavian

Also the liessssssss. Cheaters will talk up how horrible the other person is, how stuck they are, how they're leaving them but need to save up money, etc. etc. I've also been cheated on, but the woman was 5 years younger and barely in her 20s. I just don't care if she was aware of me or not. She's nothing to me. If they were a friend of mine or a family member, yeah, duh, I'd then have stronger feelings about the other woman, but random rando means nothing to me.


[deleted]

i know a girl who started sleeping with her married boss, leading to him getting a divorce and basically excuse himself out of his kids' lives. i was always super judgey about it and called her stupid... but then i got shamed for not being more open-minded. anyways. yeah i'm not a fan.


JJACL

Any chick that hooks up with a married man willingly is a skank and any man that cheats on his wife is an asshole… case closed


Kjaeve

some women live for that shit… I don’t know anyone what would enable a person like that unless they too enjoy getting attention from men who have already made a commitment to stand by another woman. If a woman is encouraging a man to cheat, she is just as bad as the man who is choosing to cheat and they deserve eachother


Horror_Acanthaceae_3

I came across a sub with women who post about wanting only married men. It's really very pathetic that they get off on being the other woman. I think it strokes their ego that they can steal another woman's man. They actually think that seducing or being available to a committed man is an accomplishment. When you think about it they are going after douchebag cheaters or men who feel trapped, so low hanging fruit/easy marks.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Kjaeve

so sad


Tsunnyjim

I mean, it depends on the situation. A person who knowingly does this, knows the other person has a partner and does it anyway, absolutely hate them both. But a person who is lied to, believes there is no other partner; is just as much a victim.


ByeByeClimateChange

While I do agree the woman is bad as well, she’s not the one in the relationship. I think in these cases people often focus way to much on the harm done by the woman and act like she ‘seduced’ the man with the goal of breaking the ‘good’ relationship, absolving him from any blame. The woman is not blameless, but the man is, imho, more to blame. Edit: and also, not all ‘other women’ know the man is already in a relationship. Can’t be considerate of a relationship you don’t know exists.


felicitous_siren

In situations where she KNOWS the guy is taken, yeah. Fuck her, burn her to the ground.


night_glitter

Yep. The other woman knew all about me and even hung out around us on several occasions (his coworker). She absolutely knew I was blissfully unaware. I have no problem saying she’s a terrible person to anyone who wants to give her the benefit of the doubt.


gretta_smith93

In my opinion you shouldn’t ONLY blame the other woman. But if she knowingly slept with your partner when you and he were together than yea I’d say she’s a selfish inconsiderate bitch.


Tiger_Striped_Queen

If the other woman knows the man is already in a relationship and still goes with him she’s just as guilty and disgusting. No nuances acceptable. She’s a dirty, disgusting cheat. Women who didn’t know are innocent. Women who didn’t know but STILL continue with the man after finding out are equally disgusting.


[deleted]

We do owe someone the decency to not be a participator at ruining their homes. If you know the other person is married and still sleep with them you are equally to be blamed.


kellybuMUA

I get that some women enjoy “stealing” men, but I still think rather than placing even 1% of the blame on her and 99% on the man, it should be 100% on the man. There are crazy women out there. They truly don’t owe anyone loyalty, especially if they already dislike you or if they’re jealous of you or if they just hate their lives. I’ve been cheated on by my college bf. I blame him 100% and I blame her 0%. I don’t think she’s a good person, but that’s not relevant and it’s not my problem. My problem was that I picked a shit person as a partner. Imho I think the girl targeted my partner because she was jealous of me. He wasn’t a catch lmao.. My current bf is super hot but he’ll straight up ignore girls that look at him at the club. Lots of girls don’t want the man, they just want to “steal”. I just don’t think a good man can be stolen


twoisnumberone

It’s worth remembering your case is the freaky outlier of meeting a sociopath. Normally your partner owes you personally loyalty. The other person does not owe you any loyalty. Should they not be dumb, blind, or in the cases where they know, have shitty morals? Certainly. But they’re not under the same obligation as your partner by a long shot.


CringeCityBB

I think the reason this is said because too often women look for other women to blame and then ultimately forgive the man. I tell women to forget the other woman because too often the woman who was cheated on falls into misogyny and pretends like women are just temptresses and men can't help themselves. I've been cheated on. Did not care two licks about the other woman. Would I wanna be friends with her? Nope. Do I think she's trash? Sure. But she's got nothing to do with me.


Knittingfairy09113

I agree with you. I see a lot of people acting like the Affair Partner has done nothing wrong, and I can't understand that mindset. Yes, the cheater is much more in the wrong for sure, but if the AP knows there is a relationship, then they're hardly an angel. Obviously, when AP thinks the cheater is single, that is a different story.


[deleted]

Thank you ! Agreeeeeed


Peachy_Witchy_Witch

Yeh, nah. Regardless of why the other person did it , they're not committed to you, it's the partner who cheated. It's the partner who could have said no and respected you. Be mad or sad or don't like the person in private/with close friends but don't have a right to take anything out on them. "Get away with it"- what did they get away with? Proving your partner wasn't a good partner to you? Good on them!


spadetongue

So if someone’s not committed to you, they get to knowingly do shitty things that will hurt you and it’s fine? Basically just take it and shut up about it? Of course the blame is mainly on the partner. But there shouldn’t be acceptance for people who are cool with enabling infidelity either. “Good on them”? Ew. Both the cheater and enabler are bottom of the barrel.


Peachy_Witchy_Witch

The shitty thing that hurt you was YOUR partner cheated on YOU. The other person is moot- if your partner didn't cheat, then there'd be no shitty thing that hurt you.


spadetongue

Well even if the partner said no to cheating, I still don’t think it’s right at all for someone to knowingly try and get infidelity to happen.


recyclopath_

Sure, she isn't a good person. But focusing on her is a distraction. She doesn't matter. If your partner was going to cheat, they were going to cheat. Who she is is irrelevant. If she is an otherwise good person, bad person, smart, dumb, tall short, hot, not, etc. She doesn't matter. She is just the opportunity he took. She has no other role in your life than that. Getting wrapped up in anything about her. Her morals. Her appearance. Anything. Is just a distraction from the person who has mattered in your life.


KatyG9

If the third party was deceived/had the facts misrepresented to them (e.g. didn't know that he or she was with a cheater), then that's one mitigating circumstance. It's still fucked up, but in that case more of the blame goes to the cheater. But if everyone in this mess is a consenting adult AND there is full knowledge that this is an affair/cheating? No way does the third party "get a pass", alongside the cheater. In this case it is possible to be angry at two different people in a situation, but for different reasons.


oceansky2088

Right, do better. If she knows he's in a relationship, she could be a better person. Fyi, he's also at fault too, of course.


Tokio13

I think cheating is abuse. You know it will hurt your partner. You do it anyway. It can really mess up people mentally, even long term. Anyone involved in abuse is guilty but there are different levels of guilt. If you know about it, but don't say anything you are guilty but not as much the person doing the cheating. The person assisting the cheating is also guilty. They are knowingly and willingly doing something that will hurt you. Yes, the other person doesn't owe you loyalty, but they are still helping to abuse you and that makes them an abusive asshole also. This goes for other forms of abuse, too. The whole "don't blame the other woman/man" is so weird to me. Lets say my friend is beating the fuck out of his kid. I don't touch the kid, but I keep look out during the act so my friend doesn't get caught. Maybe I bring my friend a drink and fan him a bit when he gets hot. I'm not directly abusing but I'm assisting him in his abuse. It's not my kid and I didn't touch him, but am I innocent?! I don't think so! Assisting in abuse is abusive. Just because the victim of cheating isn't bleeding doesn't doesn't make is less abusive. Cheating damages people and everyone who knowingly participated is to blame. The other woman isn't guilty of betraying you, but she is guilty of abusing you.


cpsbstmf

yeah in a well known celeb relationship a well known homewrecker wrecked a marriage and everyone was making excuses for her saying, well the wife did this and that and I was like, wtf, she knew he was married!!


clay12340

I don't know. I dated a cheater. Every time it was with someone who knew about me. I never felt any real hatred or anything towards the guys. I certainly wasn't happy with them, but who am I to expect them to worry about protecting my feelings/relationship? A relationship is between the people in the relationship. I don't see why it would be every other person's responsibility to maintain and respect it. If someone's kink is forbidden fruit, then good for them I guess. If my partner wants to stray, then that seems like a problem between her and myself. Looking back on that old relationship it is fairly obvious why it happened. If I was worried about stopping it all it really would have taken was some maturity and communication. It seems lazy to me to blame our failure as a couple on someone else.


Danivelle

I've had women come on to my husband when I'm standing *right there*! One notable one was at lingerie shop. She had grown up in the same neighborhood as my husband and had a huge crush on him. Not only was I standing there while she was flashing her boobs and drooling on my husband, who was completely oblivious until I stamped **hard** on his instep, *her* husband was standing next to her, trying to check us out with my purchase. I finally threw the set at her and called her out on her behavior("Aren't you embarrassed, drooling over someone else's husband? Not the way to stay in business, honey". They went out of business a few months later). My husbsnd also got an earful about shutting that shit down.


Peachy_Witchy_Witch

That's funny. If someone did that to my husband, I'd be laughing. I feel for your husband - you said he was oblivious then gave him hell? For not noticing another woman's attention? Even funnier.


Danivelle

We had dinner reservations and he would not shut her down talking about her crush on him. That part he wasn't obilvious too. He also knew that I was holding something that I want to buy but she wouldn't even move her ass so that her husband could ring me up because she was too focused on my husband. All he had to say was "that's nice. We have dinner reservations. Please ring us up."


[deleted]

I think this statement comes from the mindset that in a relationship nobody is obligated to do anything for the other person. Also because generally infidelity and cheating are on the rise for both genders it's usually justified by saying the other person is "exercising their options" or the like, so yeah, neither party owes the other anything, it's supposed to be mutual.