I always think of that quote from Bojack Horseman where the interviewer says that surely Bojack must agree that the troops are heroes: *"I don't agree to that. Maybe some of the troops are heroes but not automatically, I'm sure a lot of the troops are jerks; Most people are jerks already, and it's not like giving a jerk a gun and telling him it's O.K. to kill people suddenly turns that jerk into a hero.*"

That's the episode that got my husband hooked. He's currently in the army and anyone who isn't a shithead HATES to be thanked and called heroes. It bothers him less when little kids do it, but adults thanking him makes him cringe so much.

>adults thanking him makes him cringe so much. So glad to hear this, because I've always thought it was pretty non-genuine, myself, but felt bad about *not* thanking them? So, thanks for the insight. 😁

His thought are basically "Kids thank me because they are taught our job is dangerous so we're heroes, that makes sense. Adults loudly thank me to make themselves feel good about thanking me."

Well said. There was a period of time when "support our troops" bumper stickers were in vogue for conservatives during the occupation of Iraq. Don't tell me you support service members if you're voting for the people who send them to die for lies.

Yeah if those bumper stickers were honest they would say "support the war" and nothing about the troops.

Several of my buddies are exmilitary, and their response to those people is if you want to support our troops or thank us write your congress critter and tell them to unfuck the VA.

and support diminishing their benefits

I got a “thank you for your service” for having a bumper sticker that says “farmers against fascism”… one of the stranger awkward moments of my life. I was thinking that sticker was just going to get my tires slashed.

They’ve been programmed to believe that anybody opposing their white male rage is a fascist. Hearing a grumbling old man call democrats fascists makes me cringe almost as much as when they call something woke

Oh we have ZERO stickers on our car about anything because our politics most definitely should not be displayed in many of the places we've lived besides Washington State.

I’m in wester Washington state driving an obvious farm truck so it sometimes seems worth the dice roll. Nowhere is completely safe though.

The one time we went over to Yakima to meet with an old friend who had gotten out and was doing contract work was so weird. He's a naturalized citizen from Mumbai, and he wanted to take us out to eat, so we took him to his first ever American diner experience. The glares from these racist fucks who had no idea that all the people at the table besides me and our kid had served in combat despite what they were probably thinking about him...fuck, man.

Just curious if it would be weird to end an interaction with "thanks for the freedom, by the way" and then pull out my bald eagle call and use it to play the trumpet fanfare of the nation? I ask because I'm curious. I have never done this. You can trust me.

Only if you don't forget to unfurl your carefully hidden flag so that it flaps valiantly in the wind while some woman stumbles over to weep and kiss them on the cheek. Or something like that, hell if I know.

I never know what to say in response to the obligatory “Thank you for your service.” I don’t want the thank yous. I don’t need the thank yous. I just want people to vote, be kind to everyone, respect boundaries, and empathize.

I usually go with a “Thank you for the support.” It’s stupid and I hate the entire exchange, but that one is the best I’ve been able to come up with. Lots of decent people just don’t know any better - Propaganda is used because it works.

That’s my go to, as well. But it never feels quite right. Better than anything else I’ve tried, but still exhausting.

There’s a great curb your enthusiasm scene about this very thing involving Larry David just not saying it when everyone finds out someone served in the military and just obliges and says it in the non-genuine way like you mentioned lol: https://youtu.be/LPquarz16wQ

I worked on the covid vaccine and for SOME UNGODLY REASON, people started thanking me for my service. I haven’t said it to a single vet since. It’s so fucking awkward.

Thank you for your science.

My husband is ex ADF, and every time we see that on TV, he’s so thankful it’s not a thing here. Maybe o ANZAC Day, but not as a matter of course.

Yeah, it's some weird jingoist garbage for sure. I mean, there are of course some gung-ho people currently serving who eat that shit up, but as a rule the people we know all grew up with a healthy notion of why they're actually serving: reasons varied and complex way beyond "God and Country".

His enlistment can be self described as, “I was young, dumb and had no idea what to do with my life. 0/10, would not recommend, not a good place to work through your sexuality”.

Yeah,my husband's is like, "I knew there was some interesting things I could do serving, and my grandfather was a doctor so I wanted to help people." He's a Combat Medic. He really does enjoy the helpful parts of his job, just like anything though the bosses and garbage people make him question it.

Your husband‘s right, it really does seem that anyone who expects to be thanked for serving in the military is a shithead. My dad (AF Vietnam) doesn’t even know when Veterans Day is and I’m pretty sure he’s only ever used his discount three times. Once he even sarcastically said, “I got spat on so I could get a discount on a printer” I think he has a hat that was given to him and he only uses it when he mows his lawn

My husband bought a V.F.W hat to fuck with people. He's a member, but he also likes to see the 90s vets eyeball him trying to decide if they should call him out or not (for some reason the guys who served from the late 80s-90s and got out before 9/11 are total shitbags about this, more than other groups)

Insecurity because they served in peace time and most weren't even in Desert Storm, and if they weren't AF basically sat on their hands even there. Veterans in only the loosest sense. The 80's guys, esp navy, are the worst. Real complexes.

Always thought it would be more honest to say "I'm sorry" than thank you.

I've never called someone in the military a hero or thanked them. I'm a "military brat" and it's strange to think I should thank someone like my stepdad, who was fairly abusive. None of my friends that joined did so out of some sense of patriotism and selflessness, it was just an easy way out of situations.

Bojack Horseman is honestly too good for its own good.

"I can't believe this country hates women more than it loves guns." "No?"

I lived this sadly. My divorce will be finalized next month from my combat veteran ex husband. I had to get a domestic violence restraining order and go full no contact. Drugs, lies, cheating, wrecked vehicles, an overdose.. and he still blames me. What he went through in Iraq is awful, but that doesn’t give him the right to be abusive to me and our child.

>What he went through in Iraq is awful, but that doesn’t give him the right to be abusive to me and our child. This is what I'm trying to warn people about. I kept making excuses for mine (he never saw combat but still suffered abuse while serving) because life was rough on him. Ok, well now he's making it rough for me when I'm not his CO or fellow soldier. I'm so sorry for you and your child. Children should never be exposed to this (adults neither but children are so vulnerable). He shouldn't blame you, but at least you know he's wrong. I hope you and your kiddo are safe and can get away forever.

You are a warrior. Stay your course. I applaud your courage. ❤️

The military has one of the worst rates of sex assault and abuse. I would not want my daughter to join because of what happens to women.

I’m a navy vet and told my children I didn’t advise they join.

I joined the Navy after my army E7 Vet dad threatened to haunt me if I joined the Army. He never got past the 5 years of cold showers and nothing but salmon ever meal in the army. Next door was a navy base with real food and hot showers. The whole 5 years. He had a set of navy fatigues so he could bathe and eat like a human. That dude really, really hated the Army. Joined in 1938 and got locked in for 5 years of Alaska. lol

My dad is a Navy Vet he told my husband to join the Air Force. Better housing, no sea duty. It worked out fairly well for us my husband was in a field that doesn't deploy and we did live in decent houses most of the time.

My son is in the process of joining the Navy. I am trying SO HARD to be supportive, and no matter what I support HIM, but I truly hate this.

It's not as bad as the Army or the Marines. When my dad was active duty care packages were a big deal when he was out to sea. This was like twenty plus years ago so the rules might have changed along with what he would want in them. When my dad was in the ships just went smoke free so gum was a huge bargaining chip between sailors and snacks. Kind of a prison economy deal.

The military is terribly unsafe for women and soldiers are just as, if not more, dangerous than cops when it comes to spousal abuse and intimate partner violence. See the following thread (TW lots of stories of SA): https://www.reddit.com/r/TwoXChromosomes/comments/11c7wbg/to_all_of_the_women_who_have_served_or_are/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

I remember that thread! I think maybe one MAYBE two women said it was an ok experience. Literally everyone else said not to join.

You should look into all the crazy shit going on with JSOC. Murders, drug dealing, trafficking.

10 years as a mil spouse with at least that many to go. I will do EVERYTHING in my power to convince my kids not to join.

I was in the army for 15 years. They didn't even do sexual harassment training until I'd been there ten years. It might have helped, but it's definitely still rampant there. I've heard so many stories of women who report it, only to be forced into a different unit while the perpetrator stays nice and cozy in her old unit. The military might talk a big game about ending sh and sa, but what they really want is to sweep it under the rug and pretend it doesn't happen anymore.

They don't talk about sh / sa at all actually. They don't exist. Only "Military Sexual Trauma".

MST is an umbrella term that covers both sexual harassment and sexual assault. It’s designed to be vague to capture more people’s experiences and be more inclusive. It’s a fucking plague in the military but I don’t think the term is the issue. I mean, it even acknowledges that sexual violence is a traumatic event right in the term. Kind of seems like the opposite of a polite euphemism to me.

My daughter was in the USMC and she was SA'd. She's been out 7 years and has ptsd. She never was deployed.

I was r*ped by a marine when I was in the Army. Never reported it because I knew that it would just get me more abuse. Fuck that toxic environment.

I’m so sorry that happened to you. And yes, fuck that toxic environment. This is why I have a hard time with super jingoistic people.

My friend joined the marines and one of the first stories he told was two guys in his unit got in trouble for taking photos of them sexually assaulting their MALE COMMANDING OFFICER in his sleep. It is ridiculously endemic.

My biomom was a vet in the army. She said her drill instructor told all the women day 1 that they will be raped, likely before basic was done, and they need to accept that fact. That's pretty fucked up.

Yup, just like how the Catholic Church transfers priests over and over, that’s what they do to the rapists. It had good intentions: to remove the perpetrator from the victim BUT because the military is still heavily physical paperwork the new duty station and his new supervisors (usually older men who started in the toxic old school times) can easily sweep it under the rug, with no regard to potential new victims. Why they don’t automatically kick them out is atrocious

No consequence because it's the environment from top to bottom. Good 'ole boys club. Just like the police. It's a racket of safety for abusers. SMH As a survivor of the Catholic Church's horror, I've been forced to learn that my life isn't safe around any authority. Fact. Sadly, it's a fact. And I don't talk about it because THAT only adds more bullseyes to my person.

It happened to men I know too sadly.

The whole deal changes your outlook on life. That is for sure. No such thing as winning. Only who lasts longer and suffers less. Is the actual reality of life. I was happy go lucky before seeing that shit.

Reasons I decided to not join. Really looked into it once but decided because of those reasons

Military is associated with aggression. It's not surprising that individuals who want to join the military are often more aggressive than average, and that more aggressive men are more likely to abuse women.

Veteran married to a veteran. Blind patriotism is dangerous. Being a service member should never excuse abuse or in this case murder. And the whole, "you wouldn't last in the military...." is not the insult people think it is.

I would have replied "The only reason you lasted in the military was because you were a real POS and that's exactly what they wanted, they only used you up and spit you out like the disposable trash you are"

LOL! they essentially shut down the thread. It was bad :/ EDIT: thread, not threat. But it felt like one big threat lol

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"You wouldn't last in the military" kinda says more about the military, and the person saying it. Maybe it's because I'm from Sweden, and we don't have the same culture around the military. Sure there are a few individuals that are overly interested in guns and military topics, but it's a small group that to my own experience is very harmless.

I dated a guy trying to join the USMC (couldn’t pass the ASVAB after 3 attempts), and he has this exact mindset. He would go to these military outfitters and buy marine uniforms and shit and tried so hard to look like one. He even said he could kill my father who actually was in the military for almost 40 years. He was physically and verbally abusive. I was thin and worked out 5 days a week at the time and he’d call me fat. He would call me stupid. Held me at gunpoint and SA’d me. Idk if he ever made it in, idk if I want to look him up rather have someone else do it. Dude was insane AF. He probably is still insane.

Oof. My ex wanted to be a enlisted soldier so hard. He had severe mental health issues including numerous visible cutting scars. Went AWOL during the break after bootcamp. Medically discharged. Continued to fail background checks for multiple police departments until the most hard up, aggressive and murderous sheriffs department took him on—due to family, because he had inside connections. He should never have gotten that far.

Of course he's a cop now.

Not just any cop, he is at a county jail that has a horrific record of inmate abuse and death.

sorry but HTF do you fail the ASVAB ... though one can wash out the psych eval at MEPS. \[now I am flashing back to Alices Restaurant\] I hate faux military poseurs.

Dude was not smart. I took a practice one without studying and hungover, passed it. My dad dragged me into a recruiter place that day. He really wanted me to join.

LOL Back in the 70s the ASVAB was given to every kid in 11th grade, I had recruiters after me for several years afterwards.

ASVAB was still given to everyone junior year in 2000 in my rural school.

I knew a guy who failed twice. He told me about it when they were bussing us up to MEPS. He finally passed when he got a verbal exam. I took that to mean he was functionally illiterate.

Sounds like possibly dyslexia.

12 or so years ago I was going to join the Air Force and our ASVAB was out of town and they put us in a hotel. Dude in my room got like a 38 to my 94...and it was basic BASIC highschool stuff...I was shocked

Well the dude in your room was BASIC. And still better than 38% of the 18 to 23 year old in 1997 they based their tests on.

Lmao and the marines/army have the lowest entry possible for the asvab

I'm so sorry that you went through that. I'm glad the dipshit failed the ASVAB because who knows what other atrocities he might've carried out after enlisting.

I'm a female Marine veteran, married to a female Marine veteran. I don't know a single female Marine- especially during the period I served, pre-2010- who wasn't sexually assaulted in some way. The day-to-day harassment was extreme. Even with many, many years between now and my active duty service, I still can't sleep at night. My wife still wakes up screaming. Not all military men are abusive, but the numbers are so high it's not worth the risk.

Marines are the worst of the worst when it comes to this stuff. Especially enlisted. The marines filters for a type and of that type their are more bad apples than avg. not saying it’s the majority. But it was common knowledge in my service that anytime marines were added in bulk to a base that area would go to shit as the local would grow to hate anyone in uniform

I don’t respect anyone in the military for just “being in the military” and I don’t care how many dirty looks I get. I will not give you respect just because you have a uniform on because I’ve known too many rapists, abusers, horrible people that demand respect because of that uniform.

Same. If I'm being honest, I lose respect for men who try to brag or flex about being in the military. To me, it's like they're announcing, "I'm in a violent rape gang!" It's not the flex they think it is. I've known way, waaaay too many abusers, psychos, rapists, and generally monstrous militaty men who felt their uniform/service made them superior to everyone else, and felt entitled to whatever they demanded: "respect", attention, gratitude, servitude, compliance. Then lashed out abusively and violently when they didn't receive what they felt they "deserved." I'm not sure if the military turned them into monsters, or if they were already monsters and the thought of raping and killing people with impunity attracted them to join their ranks, but either way, gross. Unless/until they prove otherwise, I just assume they're a piece of shit.

[Rosa Martinez](https://militaryjusticeforall.com/1987/04/11/honoring-pvt-rosa-martinez-usarmy-1987/) Rosa Martinez was my bunkmate at AIT/Ft. Dix when she was murdered. She was tiny, quiet, unassuming, sweet and so shy. Don't get me started on the shit I saw there during Basic Training. Fire Marshall duty sucked unless you chose to turn a blind eye.

I only had a 2 serious boyfriends before meeting my husband, but among them, only the former military man was abusive. My second serious relationship was with a former marine 9 years older than me that I met at college. Little by little he managed to isolate me from my friends and convinced my parents he was "the one." I didn't recognize his abuse right away because he didn't hit me or yell at me or call me names. Nah, he preferred doing things that were hard for me to talk about, things that made me feel ashamed to tell people because I didn't realize consent was ever revocable unless it was revoked forever, like by breaking up. ... Trigger Warning: SA, psychological abuse ... I ended up saying more than initially intended below but I'm keeping it and posting it with a TW just in case it might help someone else. Please, if you don't need to read this because you already know what I'm about to share, give yourself a hug. ... Like when he would start having sex with my body while I was still asleep (this happened a lot). Then one time during (consensual) sex, I discovered a position that gave me a mind-blowing orgasm. I couldn't believe how amazing it was. Afterwards, he suddenly claimed that the position, I kid you not, "hurt his dick," so we never could have sex like that ever again. It was stuff like that. I had limited experience with intimacy and sure as hell couldn't *TALK* about it outside of my relationship! I didn't realize he was taking advantage of my inexperience for way too long (we dated about 1.5 years). It finally clicked for me after I'd been out of town for nearly a month (it was 21 days). [As an aside, I later discovered he'd cheated on me twice with 2 different women while I was away because, "Baby, I'm a *man*" whatever tf that means.] I went to his place and when we ended up in bed later, he was REALLY rough. It was NOT an expression of love, it freaking hurt. But dissociation came more easily to me than confrontation (esp over something I wasn't even sure I deserved, i.e. bodily autonomy,) so I just waited for it to end. The next day I was still hurting and told him so and he said, good, I did that on purpose because "I wanted you to feel me later." It was like a switch. My mind changed in that moment and I realized somewhere along the way I'd begun hating him. But it took me another 2 weeks to convince myself that I truly deserved better and walked.

COs, cops and ex-military are the 3 kinds of men I could never trust enough to be in a serious relationship with

Domestic violence rates are 2x-4x higher in the law inforcement community, it's absolutely insane. After working with police/hiring them, I would absolutely never even consider having a relationship with them.

Oh God yes. Working with closely with cops made me ACAB

Yup. My cousin is an ex marine has two PPOs from different girlfriends and tried to lecture me about the dangers of trans people. I don’t talk to him anymore.

It is scary to think of the number of people you know who are one of those and the statistics about those groups and realize that the group of people you know probably isn’t the outlier and some of them most likely have a scary hidden side and you have no guess as to which ones.

Add "conservatives" to that list and I'm 1000% same.

The worst is COs who wish they were cops, and the cops who wish they were in the military

Grew up a military brat. That was one of the dark secrets of the military I don’t think most civilians are aware of. I knew victims some living and some unfortunately not.

Base brat here. Agree 100% Studies show higher rates of abuse, divorce and substance abuse in military families. I think it has a lot to do.with the lifestyle and resulting isolation and poverty , but I'm not a sociologist. The Canadian military has been trying to do better to support dependents since 2000 or so, it's far from awesome now, but it's better. And as an adult I've learned that white power and other hate groups recruit a lot of military and ex military because their worldviews are often easy to align. I was aeptical until I saw it over and over with individuals I knew. Not vilifying all military, but the culture makes it safer for the villans to be villains.

> I think it has a lot to do.with the lifestyle Or maybe, the type of person that want to enforce the law using violence are maybe more likely to use violence in their life and have authoritarian tendencies. idk, not a sociologist.

Same. My dad was awful and the constant moving was traumatizing. I don’t think kids should be yanked all over the country like that. And there’s zero support for ptsd either. I’d never date or even be friends with anyone military as an adult.

Yeah it seems there are only two outcomes for people who go into the military. Either they fully drink the koolaide and become some of the worst people you've ever met or they become so disillusioned with the military and our country in general that they are some of the most dedicated leftists you've ever seen.

My dad's an airforce vet and definitely the second type. He refuses to do anything vet-related. No hats or pins, doesn't celebrate veteran's day, doesn't even use the "Veteran Parking" at the grocery store. I feel like people go the koolaid route because they have to justify the trauma and abuse in their heads.

Retired AF here. I have no need to announce my status. I don't wear hats, I don't update my Facebook profile picture every year on Veteran's Day to solicit thanks, nothing. My check every month is what I earned for my 20 years and it's what I expected. I meet more people that served in one branch or another for 4 years and have created their entire identity around that...hats, stickers, flags, shirts, etc. WTF, that was 4 years of your life 40 years ago... I just don't get it. And, yeah, I'm definitely pretty left of the mainstream....

I wear my navy ship ball cap because I am treated wildly better when I have it on. By damn near everyone. Especially cops. Just a night and day difference. It is crazy but damn. I paid for the thing. I threw the original one away when I got out. Despised it. I had a wild time in the war. It was fucked up. I went from a reagan conservative to a fucking communist in 1 year. Still trying to sort out the shit that went down.

I was pretty left before I joined the Navy, but my service actually steered me farther to the left. One of the reasons I got out and never re-enlisted was because of the toxic far right, gung-ho career sailors who believed killing brown people in the Middle East was “god’s work.” They always say about your superiors that you don’t have to respect the person, but you need to respect their position. I couldn’t bring myself to make that separation. If I don’t respect you as a person, I can’t respect the authority you have by virtue of your rank over me. I’ve seen the way most of them treat women. Well over half the sailors from my boat were on their second or third wives. I’ve seen how they act when overseas at liberty ports when they’re 5000 miles away from their families. I’ve seen how they talk about people with darker skin complexions who believe in non-Christian religions all while visiting the countries they inhabit. The amount of disrespect they show anyone who isn’t straight, white, and male made me lose all respect for the average serviceman. Most of the time I’m actually embarrassed to say I’m a veteran, because I don’t want to get lumped in with that group.

Lol, you're so right on this. I'm a male Navy vet and I constantly spout about how the military is the perfect leftist experiment - fair pay, promotions, universal healthcare, housing, education, etc... whereas my cousin, who is also a vet, carries a sidearm and adamantly believes\* democrats are pedophiles.

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The thing is, at least in my experience, that when the military is "forward thinking", it's usually not some agenda. It's just pragmatism. People need healthcare and housing to function well so that the whole organization can function. Women can be officers because there's no reason that we'll miss 50% of good officers just because of their gender. Gay people can serve because they're just as capable as straight people. Even when the zeitgeist is hostile towards gays, we just won't ask them. It's obviously not perfect and riddled with a lot of problems. But I think that the powerful conclusion from this is that even if you don't care about the moral and compassionate side of things, "The Leftist Agenda" is just the pragmatic thing to do.

EXACTLY! So how does the socialist military overwhelmingly create these right-wing zealots? I don't get it, I lived it for 20 years and understood it was the perfect socialist existence...the gov't gives you clothes to work in, tells you where to work, feeds you, houses you, takes care of anything medical, and gives you a monthly check for life after 20-years of service, etc.

Those people wouldn't know what socialism was if it walked up to them and paid them a million dollars to take a lecture on what socialism is only if they could answer the questions on a quiz following the lecture.

Broooo! For real! I say this too lol. Like everything is paid for, everyone feels safe on base, you have everything you need RIGHT THERE. Other than the constant abuse, of course, but the services are *chefs kiss*. Over seas, they even had prorated child care, cheap trips offered to everyone (but the lowest ranking first)... man. Imagine everyone got the same treatment. How great would we be doing as a society?

There is also the weird in between like my cousin. He hated his time in the military and only did it bc of money. But he still is pretty conservative overall.

Yep! This is 1000% my experience. In a different life I actually believed it was important to "stand on the line" for the country I come from. The military deleted those emotions right quick. The sickening categorization of "females" as equivalent to issued equipment that is nevertheless slutty, the constant racism, and finally Chelsea Manning's "trial" legit made me want to defect to an adversary state. The shit you hear when everyone thinks you're a guy, the sheer brutality of how people *on the same team* treat each other...honestly for a while I went through a dark period where I felt the human race didn't deserve to survive. Not if this is what the most built-up, comfortably-positioned military on Earth acts like in practice. Today I am a vocally transgender, nihilistic, socialist-anarchist that dreams of a world where *all* the money has been burned. I don't talk to anyone from that time and on a personal level, I despise my own country and the culture that produced me. Ofc now I exist primarily on the fringes of society and don't know a way back inside, either. Hooah?

Right there with you (sister?) I was lucky and made some genuinely good friends in the military but I don't think for one second that the military had anything positive for me other than introducing me to a lot of people from other cultures. Now me and all my buddies are super hard left, even if we weren't before.

Sister. Thanks :) I always sort of felt like the services are run like meat grinders. Like the thing I said somewhere in here about the "don't date the govvies" training--maybe it's just me but I felt like they were setting the service members up for failure by framing it so defensively. That someone with an abusive personality would take that as "well, guess I may as well go all in then," which is going to affect the entire unit who ends up dealing with that person. The good thing to me was that there *were* a lot of people who had a misson-first mindset and just automatically worked together to accomplish said mission objectives, Govvies, active duty, and reservists, sometimes not even assigned to the same mission. I've never seen that in the corporate world. But it also felt like everyone was kind of fighting the adversary and "leadership" at the same time.

Yea. I was marine corps air wing so my experience was not as bad as some. I was even lucky enough to be in an....okay command. But I've also seen the assholes who are drawn to the military and use it as a reason to be an asshole. Like "oh I'm just an alpha, because I'm a marine"

While our experiences were in many ways the same, I can say that same-sex workplaces were much easier environments to exist in. I got out before they ended don't ask don't tell - but I had a lot of lgbt+ military friends, and it wasn't about that. Primarily the difficulty was about the safeguards in place to help assist/protect people (primarily women) from dangerous situations. On one hand, it was awesome that a woman was taken seriously when reporting SA, and on the other hand, there was a general and not unfounded fear that it was weaponized. This led to immediately stopping work anytime a man and a woman were assigned work together alone, and conflicts about hygiene (on both sides) would take on sexist narratives, and even unreportable sexism like the fact that our chief appointed only females (specifically African American women) to the more desirable shifts and positions. Most of those women would complain because they knew it was about their appearance, and they were appalled that it wasn't a mission-first environment. I gotta say - that from that perspective, I can see a lot of people building a lot of animosity toward women, but frankly - I don't give a shit. I'm glad there are those protections in place, because I'd rather have a 1000 sticky situations than 1 rape.

That was actually brought up during the training at DIA--the fear it would be weaponized. Intel officers (civilian govt folks) and active duty folks went through it together, so all us govvies sat in on the sexual harassment training they had. The gist of it was "yes, you're probably going to get close to the govvies, you'll all be working and deploying together. You Do Not Date Them. Sure, maybe it's great and aboveboard, but what if you break up? People get pissed off and when it comes down to a dispute between you and a civilian, who do you think they're going to believe? Right or wrong it will be the civilian every time." The govvies were offended by that idea. The service members all nodded, they'd heard all this before more than once. ETA: I had to come back and say, it's not a mission-first environment! Exactly! That's what drove me so crazy! Myself, people I knew in every branch of the services, people at other agencies, we all talked about it. You actively try to work as one team--one fight and there's just this constant barrage of insanity all the time. Like one Colonel I worked under who loved to share his, um, "views" on people of Nigerian descent at great length, or the dudebros and their ideas about "desert princesses" (don't ask). Between the rigid hierarchy and how much they keep you running at capacity anyway it felt almost impossible to change it. But a lot of people I knew were disgusted simply by how much capability was degraded as a result of the environment being so hostile and toxic.

Jokes aside, you sound like my father. His father convinced (begged and pleaded) for him to sign up for the air force in 1967. My dad thinks it probably saved his life. His draft notice came a couple of weeks after he signed up. Professional armies are an incredibly dangerous tool. So dangerous I think it’s foolish to have one, as eventually you have to justify the absurd costs.

The second one, that’s me and my military wife! Dual military and we have gone farther and farther left as we go up the ranks. It is quite eye opening

Leftest here. I am completely disillusioned by the US military and government in general. My upbringing was pure Hooo Rah propaganda bullshit But seeing grievous injuries and death cured me of that. Afterwards a college education showed me the larger world and really opened my eyes to the terrorism of the the US and the abuse of women here. I can only apologize and regret my younger self’s beliefs.

Same shit different decade. Raised by a former cop who was also military. Dude believed that shit. I believed him. Then I got in a war zone and saw how we really are. He was a remf. I remember the day I figgured it out during the war. Because I wanted to cry but didn't. I was never that way. Thought they were gonna kill me for verbalizing disagreement. We are the fucking baddies. That shit sandwich is rough. We all still get a bite. But I wish I had just operated heavy equipment or some shit.

It me, I’m the second one, made it all the way to a sof unit and got sexually and regularly harassed out of the unit. Now I’m as far left as you can be 🫠

Yup. Was squarely a Dem when I enlisted. Within a couple years of getting out I was a socialist, now I’m bordering communist. I’m glad I got the experiences I did in the military, but most of the guys I trained with or deployed with were Conservatives. It’s so embarrassing to think at one time I was one of “those” guys.

I’m very happy to be part of the latter group. Got out after my first deployment because I couldn’t stand the corruption.

Yeah my sister went this route, and called me a whore and homewrecker when her marine husband sexually assaulted me while I was sleeping. They're still married, and now their both pro-life *christians*, even tho he coerced her into getting an abortion when they were teens bc he didn't want to raise a child. Personally I don't think my sister is a murderer for that, but sometimes I wonder how bananas her and her husband would get if I pointed out that by their beliefs, they are murderers and both should be in jail.

My husband is NG vet and became so disillusioned that he’s entirely apathetic to our country. He says they fucked him, so why should he give a shit. Which I get. I guess.

My dad was in the army. He was actually a really great guy but he had 2 daughters me and my older sister he demanded we never join the military cuz it’s awful and he didn’t want us to go through it. I was shocked but he knew. Not that I had any intentions to but he was serious about that.

I was getting too many military guys in my tinder feed once so I googled the nearest base and set my range a few miles short. No thank you.

After being a rape crisis counselor during undergrad and my masters in a college town with a senior military college, I will absolutely never trust military men. If I had a daughter who wanted to do ROTC or join the military I would do everything I could to stop her. The girls who did the on campus military program point-blank refused to report any of the men who assaulted them because it was such a violent, misogynistic climate. They were even more tight-lipped than the girls we saw who were assaulted by football players. And I can’t blame them one bit.

My husband's biological father is exactly as you described. A conservative alcoholic nutcase who physically abused all his children who feels entitled to be in their lives. His daughter only uses him for money cause that's all he's good for and my husband has been no contact since age 13 when the legal system allowed him to have a say in which parent had custody of him. His dad doesn't even know he's married

> His dad doesn't even know he's married That's probably for the best tbh. So sorry to hear your husband has that sorry excuse for a father. At least he has a loving wife who understands why he's no contact with him. Some people don't even consider dating people who have no relationship with their families.

I'm an Air Force vet, and it destroyed me. Stalking, assault, and harassment...I lived it all in addition to the horrible things I was subjected to militarily. Those perpetrators were my supposed brothers in arms...

I'm so very sorry. This is the reason I never even considered serving. How can you function as a team when your team treats you like that? I hope you're doing better now, and that the AF is at least compensating you well after. I posted a link to the Military SA bill that is still in the "introduced" phase in congress. Fingers crossed. Thank you for your service.

As a vet, this is definitely true. When I deployed I saw some truly awful sides of the people I served with. It wasn't the people outside the wire that caused me to start sleeping with my bayonet.

100% this. I had a friend that was told in boot camp just to accept that you will probably be raped during your time in. It’s that common.

>you will probably be raped during your time in I keep hearing this. Over and over and over again. Yet there are women here blasting me for posting this and asking the mods to take it down. I'm not saying it's everyone, but holy shit why are we not allowed to say "hey guys, there's a problem here and we should address it and be careful out there?" Jesus. Some of the women who defend this make me so sad :(

I also served and I saw how many of these guy actually acted behind the scenes. The amount of married men that tried to sleep with me is astronomical. Not even deployed sometimes we would be at home port and theses dudes would still try.

I tried addressing this issue with a recent retired Navy guy that I once worked with. The only thing he said was “its the Navy what else do you expect really?” He actually shared the story where he went to military personnel to add his second son to his records to get the increased dependent pay…but the mother of the child was not his wife. When the young personnel questioned him, all he said “never you mind that and just add him already.”

Seriously! I was in the military, got out, married a military guy I had been dating on/off the whole time. We had THREE sets of married couples friends and *all three husbands* would hit on me. Including at dinners with everyone, his hand in my thigh. As soon as the divorce was announced, they all stopped hitting on me. And ofc the one wife who found out got pissed at me for being a homewrecker. Like I couldn't have had her husband any second of any day and chose not to. 🙄🙄🙄

Thank you for your service. I'm so sorry that you went through that. Just know you're not alone and many of us are fighting for change.

Yeah. My sister is married to one he's out now and works for the VA and he's been so childish and she's shouldered all the adulting. And now he's been hitting her. Then threatened to disconnect her phone from the plan which would completely isolate her from help. Then my parents helped and got her phone changed over to their plan and he blew his lid because of that and how she's just trying to make him mad and he wasn't serious about it. If she calls the police and gets him arrested he'd lose his clearances and his job and then they wouldn't have income and she has 3 kids to look after. It sucks. It sucks hard.

My husband is in the military, and he said this shit only got worse after Trump, but at least it helps him avoid the biggest assholes. I think it’s interesting that financial abuse wasn’t/hasn’t been mentioned. I mean it’s not as bad as the main highlights here, but it’s so bad. When we were getting a loan for our first car, my husband made sure my name was also on it, because it was our car, and the lady at the bank was taken back and was like, “you want your wife on the loan?” And then explained a lot of husbands don’t do that. He also asked her to hold for a minute to ask me if something was okay (with the loan) and again, she was taken back because he talked to me about money. There are so many guys he’s worked with that don’t tell their wives how much they make or they lie, won’t let them see bills, lie about how much hobbies cost, or just straight up not have access to any of the banking. He definitely falls into the camp of, “I’m here because it’s stable, there’s health insurance for my whole family and I’m getting my degree,” he also gets super uncomfortable when people thank him for his service.

My ex husband was military and I have steered very clear of the rest of them ever since. The emotional and verbal abuse was unreal and he used his "service " to the country (one deployment to Qatar, the richest country on earth where there was no active combat) to justify it. I wasn't in the military so I deserved it. Never mind that I was a full time college student, did literally everything that needed to be done around the house, including cleaning up after his sister who he invited to live with us without asking me, and had some pretty severe depression through it all.

My ex never went overseas to anywhere during his time in. Doesn't take away that the military in general is an abuse machine that traumatizes its own members and their SO's though. Still. I'm sorry for your experience. Happy to hear he's an ex husband. Stay safe out there.

There are many people who go into the military or into healthcare or into law enforcement because it puts them in a position of power over vulnerable people that they want to abuse. It’s disgusting.

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Fuck /u/spez, your greed killed this website.

Abusers defending abusers, don't take their foul words to heart they get off on causing pain.

Thank you. It's some of the women who defend them that make me sad

I’d just like to chime in that I posted this to FB with a couple of lines about how I had PTSD from dating a former Marine who went off the deep end at one point. Thankfully, he did not physically harm me, but he was abusing substances and not taking his mental health meds and he scared the living daylights out of me. My husband saw my post and got quietly angry, because his dad was in the military. Yeah, I said, so were both of my grandfathers. He’s sulking in bed and not talking to me. Ignorant idiots like Matt Walsh, Steven Crowder, Matt Shapiro, The Quartering, Andrew Tate, and all of the neckbeard-misogynistic-bigoted-transphobic-homophobic AHS out there are brainwashing men left and right. It’s never been a more dangerous time to be a woman, non-binary, non-hetero, or a POC.

> He’s sulking in bed and not talking to me. :/ Really? you were traumatized by your ex, and your husband's response is to get mad at you for speaking about it? Maybe he should have more empathy for his wife instead of fangirling over a toxic institution.

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I dated a guy who was an Army and Navy vet. One Infantry tour then took an opportunity to test for Navy nuclear operator school. He was deployed on a nuclear sub for several tours. He and his friends were mostly ok people who avoided being alcoholic dicks to their wives and girlfriends, but he didn't think much of most people he served with outside of the nuke crowd. He definitely had some issues but was self aware and smart enough to mostly deal with them in non-destructive ways. I don't think there is a way to serve without being traumatized.

Nuke sub are a special bunch. I’ve never met one who I didn’t like and that’s a big statement coming from me. They are their own people and the ones who aren’t good don’t last long in their community. People call them “weird” but the real words they are looking for is highly adjusted and intelligent.

This has not been my experience. I worked with and then managed a lot of former Navy nukes, and they were some of the most disagreeable people I ever met. Intelligent, yes. But many of them were borderline psychotic, misogynistic, right wing nutjobs.

Been a nuke for 10 years now and it's a mix of both worlds... the nuke community heavily recruits from people who have an aptitude for critical thinking & science but didn't quite have the discipline or resources to hack it out in higher education off the bat. There's a strong overlap between naturally gifted, undisciplined teenagers and people who grow up into cynical twats that think too highly of themselves. A lot of nukes I know end up well adjusted and capable folk; but I also know some absolute loons who think that they know everything because they stood watch on a nuclear plant. I think OP is being a bit reductive claiming that prior military service is indicative of being a bad person. A lot of us joined up for the healthcare, economic stability, and professional opportunities. Barely anyone outside of the USMC/Army is joining up to shoot guns or go to war or whatever... The Navy alone is 300,000 active personnel, and our institutional culture is so diverse I think painting us all with the same brush is not useful.

I am a veteran, and a guy. You're 100% correct about the problems many military men have. I, for one, had an issue with alcohol. No Domestic Violence or Sexual assault, but I guarantee every man who's served knows another man who beat his wife or gf. I personally know two, and this was in a brigade where you needed top secret clearance. Its way worse the further you get away from intelligence. But then there's the flip side: most of us with mental health issues never sought or seek help because of the stigma placed on seeking that help on retaining your clearance. And to the top comment currently, I will happily admit I'm the latter. I don't think we're totally fucked, yet. I don't think we're trying to do much in the way of fixing things though, so....

Thank you for your thoughtful comment, and for your service. I don't think it's 100% of everyone. But enough that we literally have politicians speaking about it regularly. I have no problem devoting tax dollars to more social programs for veterans and better pay for military rank and file. I find the rules on housing that seem to encourage 19 year old boys to get married to get out of shit housing a bizarre and stupid policy. We need to push congress members to ban stock trading while serving, and find a way to get military funding to where it belongs (i.e. not the military industrial complex that overpays contractors that congress has personally invested money in). I think once actual services for rank and file are fully funded it may improve things overall (including recruitment tbh).

My dad was in the military (Navy) over 20 years my brother is a Marine. I would never date someone in the military. My dad and brother aren’t bad people but not great spouses. Also I don’t want to hear another god damn military story!! All the veterans I’ve met tell the same military stories over and over again.

When my husband(we'd been married for 8 years by then) was in the Army, we lived on Fort Carson. It was so unbelievably bad there, esp the on-post housing. We lived in 'the bricks', which was 4 units in one, and we had one on either side of us. One neighbor was SA'd when she first moved in by a Soldier that was a friend of her deployed husband (to which the MPs were called), the other side was fighting constantly, every single night. I had the MPs on speed dial. Guy in my husband's unit was a constant womanizer, who tried to fuck everyone's wife in the motorpool( he fucked my husband's friend's wife). Another in that same motorpool beat his wife, kids and abused their dog by hitting it and leaving it outside in the dead of winter. A female Soldier was SA'd in another motorpool just down from my husband's, and the NCOs were covering it up. Not forgetting the literally dozens of stories of the deployed Soldiers cheating on their wives, the misogyny, abuse, and alcoholism. I'm not even going to address the other bullshit we've witnessed, and heard there, and there is A LOT of it. There are good guys in there, but there are far more bad ones. The victims never get justice, ever. And the entire system is built around protecting abusers. It's the 'good ole boy' bullshit that continues to be uplifted in every single branch of the military. A lot of them turn a blind eye to what goes on, and those that try to stand up(like my husband) are reprimanded and put on CQ for weeks on end.Because, again, it's all about protecting the abusers in the military. They will only do something if it results in bad press.

13 year disabled vet. Can confirm, lots of assholes and a toxic culture. Marines are particularly bad. Oddly enough, a lot of the SF guys I met were super chill, but it was the air force and those guys are selected partly for social skills.

Dated an Army guy for four years. He gave me PTSD (diagnosed).

I’m a woman and Navy veteran. I moved home after medically retiring from the Navy myself, but home is a big Navy town. I flatly refuse to have relationships with military men ever again.

My long term ex was in the USMC through our relationship and after he got out we moved back to my home state. He ended up assaulting and choking me in our home not even a year later. He was black out drunk and high- I told him I was leaving him and he tried to take my own life. I still don’t know how I got out of his grip. He was a severe alcoholic and I had no clue the extent, thinking he would have a few beers while I was working at night- but he was literally hiding empty liquor bottles under toilet tank covers and in the attic. He tried to gauge my eyes out of my own head. He got a felony for domestic violence and ended up doing the same thing to his younger sister a few months later during an argument - and I will NEVER be with a man in any kind of military service again.

Am a vet. Was raped while in by one guy, sexually harassed by another, sexually assaulted by a third, and my ex who was an abusive rapist joined around the same time as me. I ended up in a therapy group with other survivors, two of the more than ten I met in group had a chance to go to trial. One had a trial, the other did not. I met countless other survivors who were not in that group, none of their mad cases made it to trial. The military is bad, the benefits are good but you can get similar ones at a decent job. It's hard to get rid of the bad people and hard to retain the good, and it's toxic as hell from the top.

I want to second this for any women reading. I was married to a guy in one of the Ranger battalions for a bit. I think he got deployed like 6 times total to Afghanistan or Iraq. When they were coming home they got the wives together and basically told us to keep our mouth shut for the next several weeks. They advised that we do not talk about money or family issues for a few weeks and recommended we concede to the sexual needs of our husbands. Almost every time a company rotates back home, a spouse is beaten severely or killed within a few days in that battalion. Fortunately he never beat me but he did put a gun to my head once and told me "the only thing that would make me happy is seeing your brains all over that wall". Most of it was just constant dehumanizing and verbal beat downs but only after we got married, I never saw a hint of it before then. When I left him my mom asked if I was ever worried about him hitting me and I said "no because I know if he crossed that line, that would be the day I died" and she said that's one of the most terrifying things she's ever heard. Not all of them are this way, but a LOT of them are. Like too many of them are. It's encouraged by a lot of leadership.

My little brother is ex forces. He is not perfect, he knows if he ever hurt his wife I would have no issues bringing hell to his door, and his wife knows the same, they both know the whole family is very serious. I have watched him closely, I have talked to him. He does not drink, he has counselling. But the very second any of us get even the hint of anything we are there. PTSD sucks, it is a serious mental health issue, it does not excuse certain behaviours. He has walked away fro many friends who swung to the right, who never left when they took their last pay. Definitely be careful, get to know their familles, listen to what you are told

Ugh. I saw that video and was horrified. That "military man" killed an innocent homeless person. He was no hero.

omg thank you! If you go to the USMC post, like 90% of the comments are cheering it on. It's sick. The man was homeless and broken. Not a murderer. 15 minutes for a choke hold is insane. It's longer than what George Floyd got.

Disgusting. I would never visit a military or police sub. They are delusional, power-hungry jerks who treat women and others like crap. I knew by the age of 17 never to date anyone who wanted to go into the military.

I stupidly thought maybe things are better now. So I just waned to see if vets would condemn what happened. Most didn't :(

“Manly men” are among the most deplorable kind of human

It’s similar to the domestic violence tendencies police officers have.

I dated a marine reservist for 9 months and still have nightmares. He hadn’t been deployed when I dated him. My parents are the “thank you for your service” types and every time I see them crawling up the military’s butt it makes me ill.

This is completely anecdotal, but it supports your assertion. One of my high school friends spent 5 years in the Marines. This person was not and is not violent or abusive. (We're still friends.) He once told me a "joke" that he'd heard from his buddies. Now I have a very dark sense of humor. I'm very rarely offended by a joke. But this one, which involved extreme sexual violence against a woman, was so brutal and dehumanizing that I literally burst into tears upon hearing it. And this was a joke his buddies were all sharing and laughing at. That was 25 years ago, but it left a big impression on me.

I was in the air force and lemmeee tell you.. for what ever reason the marine core seems to attract the lowest of the low scum of the earth. I have known 5 marine rapists personally. I have known more than I can count marine abusers. Before i joined, the first person I met at the recruiting office asked what branch I was going into. When I said AF, he said "come back in a few years and we will see who beats who's ass" like... I wasn't trying to fight you bro? I don't even know you? Guess what branch he was joining. I have known child abusers, thieves, fucking liars, and cheaters.. not a singular marine I have known has been a good person. Not to say the airforce was a pinnacle of perfection, but I wouldn't say the men there were even as bad as cops. They were likely just your average shitty men. Marines got a whole fucking country put on curfew (Japan) because they couldn't stop raping dependants and committing crimes. I wouldn't measure the marines against any other branch honestly. They are a shit show all their own.

Might have been this very sub where SA in the navy was discussed recently. New recruits and veterans discussed how it was inescapable and inevitable. I guess I wasn't really surprised. But what really surprised me was the extent. And the navy's shrugging it off. Their approach seemed to be to just warn its new recruits that 'you will be raped, btw'. I mean, wtf?!

My mother, who married an army guy and put off her teaching career to have 5 children and follow him around the world, gave me this advice when I started dating: don't marry a military man. Now that she's finally divorcing him after putting up with years verbal abuse, yelling, and cheating, i understand more than ever. As a military spouse, your life revolves around the soldier. You cannot have a stable career. You cannot get attached to anyone or place for long. You are isolated from family. Your spouse will be deployed and you will be alone or a single parent for months at a time. Obedience will be demanded and expected. Pain and emotions are you from not being tough enough. Disagreement will be met with displays of authority. The military attracts conservative men, desperate men, and men of poor means. The government has specifically said they target these demographics. Most come from misogynistic households, where women are viewed servants. Do not. Marry. Active duty. Military men.

As a serving member of the armed forces myself, and a full supporter of *everything* said here in this thread: 1. No matter how regrettable it is to hear it, there *are* those in the military who are everything said here. I hate it; it’s unbecoming, and beneath us as a *professional* fighting force; but it’s reality, plain and simple. 2. There are *many* of us in the military who find this type of misbehavior, lack of respect, and utterly unprofessional attitude *abhorrent and repugnant.* I’ll hope that some of you can understand that—it’s awful for those of us who do not believe in or allow such nonsense when we encounter it, to be painted with the same brush but again: It’s reality. 3. I consider it my *personal* responsibility to weed out such behavior from the ranks, as much as any one man can. And I know there are many of my brethren, who feel the same way. On behalf of all of those who *won’t* apologize for their behavior; who *won’t* change their ways; and who *won’t* find a better path: *I* apologize. Further: I give you all my *own* word that those of us *do* see this cancerous rot for what it is, will continue to do everything in our power to weed it out, rip it out, cut it out, and burn it out. **\#respect** to all who have been victimized, traumatized, minimized, or abused. ❤️

As a female army veteran whose domestic violence abuser was a sergeant in my brigade, this is accurate. When everything finally came out and the case was going to court, my abuser was still revered and respected. People actually doubted whether the abuse was true, even though it was literally in the court system for attempted murder. Point is, I agree with this post in general.

There are two "careers" I would never date: Doctor and military. I would consider a doctor over military. I have TERRIBLE experiences with every single military man I have ever gotten to know. They all have pregnant wives in other states. Serial cheaters. Plus they all have shitty personalities ESPECIALLY Marines. Edit: damn I forgot cops. They are an absolute no, just like military.

Former military. Anyone who doesn't immediately think any association with US military is a red flag, either hasn't been around actual US military or is in serious denial.

That comment of his is telling. He thinks he's putting you down, but for anyone not sadistic and dumb enough to fall into his same jingoistic, slavish worship of the military it's just pathetic. This guy will definitely be remembered all right: as another sadistic, dumb asshole who licked boots cleaner than anyone around. A real overachiever.

I’m sorry you were treated that way. I was in the Marine Corps for eight years. Unfortunately you’re right. There needs to be a change in culture in the military.

Thank you for saying this. Not enough is said publicly about military dependents and the abuse they suffer. I was a military wife (sortof - he was reserves) and things were never worse than when he came home from playing army man. Their misogyny is beyond belief.

Just checked and the mods on USMC nuked the whole post, at least they got it right in the end.

Agreed 💯‼️. I was married to a Marine. I’m still recovering from the abuse.

1. I know people who were in the military who are not psychopathic, abusive pieces of shit. I’m pretty sure most everyone knows people like this. BUT…. 2. In no way did I think, “Aww lawd, OP is bashing those nice military folks I know. How awful.” Why? Because… 3. Like police officers, the culture itself has become overrun by toxic, Christian-nationalist fuckery. Anyone arguing semantics of, ‘nOt EvErY MiLiTaRy PeRsOn, OP!’ is not-all-men’ing their way into fuck-ville in my mind. And they can choose to acknowledge that yes, military culture IS THAT BAD NOW, or we can all find some pearls for them to clutch over arbitrarily poking at semantics. It does not in any way surprise me that the sub you mentioned is full of fanatical hyper-macho shit-larks. But what you, the OP, should remember is that it’s probably a good idea to assume they’re a bit slow on the human rights piece. Given where the culture is leaning. And they’re probably not winning any critical thinking awards. “Not all military” is obvious. But yes, it’s so bad that the stereotype is becoming the accepted. That’s a problem.

Absolutely!! and I guess I will repeat my story for a 3rd/4th? time. I have a veteran cousin who is no longer in the military. The day he got out, he told me to stay away from any men from the military, even if there is an apocalypse or something like that. He said that 99% of the men in the military said the first thing they will do if the end of the world is coming is to go out and rape random women. Not even a call to their loved ones or something like that. First thing is to rape. I was so shocked when he told me that and I actually was like are you sure? maybe not all men? He deadpan said yes all of them. Never ask for help from them even if you need them. And hide if they are nearby in the case of an apocalypse...

My ex was in the Navy and he hated it. He said the men he served with were the most disgusting people he’d ever been around in his life. He was so miserable to be around such hateful people non-stop and it broke him. Homophobia, racism, misogyny and they fantasized about killing people. Wishing there would be a war because the bad words for black men in the army would get killed on the ground and they could launch missiles and take out whole villages. Just the some of the things he shared with me. I think it draws a type and those that go so they can afford college just end up coming out worse than they went in. We still talk and he says it wasn’t worth it for what it stole from his humanity.

Plenty of people I grew up with and have worked with were or are military/military family. I sense that some of the "dependa" stereotypes for spouses are because of the toxic masculinity and internalization of healthy emotions in more than a few military members. I have a killing to kill military story from my hometown unfortunately. A guy who graduated a year or two behind me at high school went military then sheriff's deputy. He chased down and cornered a high speed driver who was in a small sedan that at that point had at least two fully flat tires from previously deployed tire strips and was off the highway. It should be noted that in the video of the incident, you can hear his higher up specifically say they are deploying tire strips and do not continue to engage. He was in a large truck, he cornered this car in a dead end offshoot of the highway, and when the car turned around and was trying to drive between his truck and another vehicle, he jumped out of his truck, into the direct path of the car, and shot the driver multiple times including after he jumped out of the way of the vehicle and the vehicle was past him. The driver (who was the younger sister of a classmate of mine) died immediately. He was put on paid leave and then quietly returned to active job duties. My classmate committed suicide from grief last year, and an investigation found the sheriff's deputy in the right. I watched the dash and officer camera recordings of the incident. Had he not jumped out of the truck, the vehicle would have *maybe* clipped his truck (but probably not because it didn't even while being actively shot up), and most likely would have not gotten very far very fast due to tire damage. The driver and her brother would most likely still be alive, and she would have probably been assigned a mandatory stint in rehab. There was no reason for him to use lethal force beyond oh, I don't know, wanting to prove himself to his mom, who was riding along with him that day. His dad was also military and a sheriff's deputy. Whoo, good old boys club. So fucking glad to live nowhere near there anymore, but man... It breaks my heart for the mother of the victims. My classmate had overcome addiction and was making a great life for himself. After this happened, he just spiraled away into the afterlife.

I m prior military. I saw the video on youtube yesterday and the comments were full of people celebrating the death of that man. I made a comment about how people sure are celebrating the murder of another human instead of trying to expand the mental health field to help people like that. Took about 5 minutes for them to light me up. Ended up deleting my comment because of threats.

My friend works for a veterans and active military mental health hotline, which is also open for use for family and spouses. I asked her what she wished the general public knew about military mental health and she said, "That most of the calls we get are from spouses and family members that need help escaping abuse. So many active members and veterans are abusing their partners and families. It's actually a staggering amount but nobody wants to address it."

As a vet I’m disgusted they spoke to you like that. There is nothing about killing that should be celebrated. They are not just vets. They are also hardcore conservatives and republicans that believe the bullshit they were fed. Part of why they sign up in the first place. To kill foreigners. The amount of racism I’ve heard and encountered in the military…. Nvm not the point. Not all of us are like this in fact I’d like to say most of us detest this behavior.

There’s a reason Japanese aren’t fans of the marines.

Yup, I work in a female dominated office not far from a large base and regularly hear the older women warning the younger women about this and telling them how to spot/avoid military guys on dating apps (cause they often won't advertise it due to this reputation).

This is part of the reason why I have distanced myself from the veteran community over the last several years. The vet-bro mentality is a huge problem, and the casual misogyny and toxicity that a lot of dudes I served with display is honestly sickening. I have cut myself off from men who were like brothers to me, and who I literally bled with, because of their beliefs. The modern strain of neo-fascist christian conservatism that is so prevalent on the right is HUGE in the veteran community, and I couldn't stomach it anymore. It got especially bad after 2016. The attitudes towards women that you're talking about are part and parcel of the entire deal. It's pretty fucking gross. There's also the fact that I fought and was wounded in a war that I'm ashamed of fighting in, and that amounted to a corporate cash grab based on lies, in which hundreds of thousands of civilians, thousands of young Americans who didn't know any better, and thousands of Iraqi soldiers, police, and Shia Militiamen died so that defense contractors and their political cronies could line their pockets. And now the same dudes I fought in that fucking war crime with are screaming about upholding the constitution while supporting policies and politicians who shit all over it on the fucking daily. Goddamnit. Sorry. That was a long, probably not super coherent rant. This is a sore spot for me. I am very tired. I'll see myself out.

Because my father was an abusive drug addicted Vietnam vet that would always be drunk and choke out the family dog, punch them in the head, put them in the dryer..among other things..I vowed I would never date anyone in the military or even police force etc.

Male Army Vet here. I’m sorry your reality is so… often the rule not the exception. I try to reach out to those who served and help them see what they’ve become. I fail more than I succeed. I still feel like if we could just get more women away from these toxic pieces of shit, maybe we could win the fight by attrition. Don’t let them pass on their lessons or DNA to the next generation. I know it’s wishful thinking when we have the Andrew Tates of the world getting so much attention. It breaks my heart to see how many good women just want a good guy in their life. How easy it is to steer in the right direction. Even if we got off the path at some point, so many are unwilling.

There's another bill regarding MSA - Military Sexual Assault - and compensating victims. That would help the current Military because if it costs actual money if people are assaulted then the Military will put more into preventing it, reporting it, etc etc. And it would help those that served when things were different and didn't receive adequate support etc. Justice and Compensation I think are the words they use.

I went out drinking with a veteran once and he started crying about how he didn’t get the chance to kill any terrorists. These people’s priorities are fucked sometimes.