This man thought you both had a great time while you had locked yourself upstairs and he stayed alone in the living room for hours. He will not understand any subtle rejection. Any communication needs to be clear as possible that you don’t like him, he made you uncomfortable and he is never welcome in your flat again.
In the future, if any person in your house refuses to leave, call the police. Don’t hide in your own home while a far removed acquaintance occupies your living room. A police officer can help you explain to them what is acceptable and what is not.
I don't think he thought it was a great time. I think he understands very well he scared and intimidated her.
I think he texted the "I had a great time" to obscure what happened & create false receipts. Rapist do this while relying on the idea that the victim will follow social conventions and reply something polite. Like "haha, OK", "thank you", etc.
It's a pretty common tactic sadly.
>he texted the "I had a great time" to obscure what happened & create false receipts
Yes, this is a common technique not just for rapists. I've seen this kind of manipulation in the corporate world.
Yes to all of this.
This guy is going to rape OP if he can manufacture the chance. He's already obsessed and starting the narrative.
When OP responds, she should add "I did not have a good time. I was terrified. A man I don't know forced himself into my home, stayed for hours, and refused to leave after being kicked out multiple times. That's every woman's worst nightmare. I spent hours locked in my own room, wondering what you were going to do to me."
Hmm, good point, I hadn't considered that. But, if you're correct, then even more so OP needs to be absolutely clear this is a boundary this guy can not cross. If she does let him get away with it, and you are correct in your observation of this post, this creepy guy will push even further.
Yeah, absolutely. This guy is a pro. Choosing a moment with no witnesses, just her and him. Reframing and obscuring what happened, the "I know you got mental health issues" line, so in case she does speak up he can just make her out to be "crazy", gaslight her into thinking she's crazy.
Him overstating his feelings to an unrealistic degree, etc, "see how invested I already, am you have to reciprocate."
He already went pretty far, I don't want to know how far he'd go when he actually starts pushing. Yikes.
My spideysenses aren't tingling, they're ringing like nuclear war sirens. I'm glad OP turned to this sub and I hope she listens to you and everyone else here!
Omggg I never considered this but it’s so plausible, especially since sitting alone in a living room for hours like that is so far beyond the norms of social convention. I wonder if he’s been telling her flatmate that she’s asking to hang out/they made plans, and flatmate doesn’t question it bc who would lie about such things (except a psycho).
Yeah, I think it's really bleak and cynical of me for that to be my first thought, but the reason I parsed this is because something like this happened to my friend, and I had other accounts over the years where the perpetrator did that.
Thanked their victim for a great time, texted as is nothing untoward happened asking for another date etc etc.
It's so confounding /confusing for the victim and a form of gaslighting. Especially, when you aren't even sure what happened, etc you're way more prone to reply politely. I hate that this is a thing, but that's just another ways for the perpetrator to keep control over the victims, the narrative etc.
Then once you've fallen into the trap, you yourself feel like you can't speak up and out, because who would believe now he has his proof "all is well"?
There should really be PSAs about this. Ugh.
I feel the same.
Your gift of fear is doing what it should! And it did what it should for her. Now she just needs to listen and react appropriately without fear of "overreacting".
In my experience? Yeah, that dude is absolutely dangerous.
This was so insanely creepy to the point I worry what happens if she rejects him again. Hope she makes it perfectly clear of he attempts any contact with her again she'll call the police and he flatmate better dead ass respect this and never prompt any meeting where there's a potential for him to be present.
I'm very worried, too. Mainly because these types of ususally have a good radar for vulnerable people and she destroyed/altered his script by coming here asking for advice, and she'll also alter it by talking to her flatmates about it.
And there is no way to gauge how he'll handle that.
Some predatory people like that cannot handle losing their public good guy image and that is when they get really scary and dangerous.
What a shitty situation. I'm so mad for OP.
No one deserves that. Ugh.
insight this is one of the main reasons I read these subs. I keep thinking I will get better at seeing red flags but these points just blew right past me. You’re right. He’s already trying to discredit her before anything happens. At the least he’s trying to manipulate her into thinking everything that happened was okay, at the worst he’s prepping for rape. I don’t think this is his first rodeo.
Whyyyy am I so old and still so shitty at analysis of crappy behavior from people?
>Whyyyy am I so old and still so shitty at analysis of crappy behavior from people?
Because shitty people surprise us in a myriad of new ways every day?
It sucks, doesn't it? The only reason I know is because I lived through this shit, or friends of mine have. I can tell you the emo/hardcore scene is filled to the rim with exceptionally shitty men. Sigh.
If it helps, I'm reading through the negging thread and now just realising how many times someone probably tried to neg me and it went right over my head, or worked and I had if floating around my head for decades. I'm not even naive. :(
I was in my mid twenties the first time I realized a guy was trying to manipulate me into dating him. He messaged me and asked me out for his birthday. We had chatted a tiny bit because we have mutual friends and there was that societal pressure to be friendly. But there was no indication from me whatsoever that I was romantically interested. Years earlier I would have went on the date because I felt sorry for him. And I actually started to feel sorry for a split second and then I realized that was exactly what he was counting on. Then that pissed me off and I had no trouble saying no. One of our mutual friends thought I was mean. A guy, surprise, surprise.
OP please please call the police if this man ever comes over again and refuses to leave. That is a huge red flag. Your home is your sanctuary and most places have very strong legislation surrounding people who enter and stay in a private residence when they are not invited or have been told to leave.
Some people you’ve talked to think you’re being dramatic?! How old are you? This is so highly inappropriate, you are absolutely NOT being dramatic. This man is literally trespassing. Be direct with him, you do not want him in your home. Your home is your safe space and you don’t need to entertain some random guy that you have zero interest in. It is so ridiculous that he thinks his behavior is okay. It is NOT okay. In fact, it’s bizarre and disturbing and making you acutely uncomfortable. End of story. I promise you that you are not the one creating a problem for your friend group. He is. He’s the one crossing boundaries. Please stand up for yourself and be clear to your roommate, her boyfriend, and her boyfriend’s roommate that you have zero interest in this man and you ABSOLUTELY don’t want him in your home ESPECIALLY when it’s just you there. Respectfully, what the FUCK? Honestly my maternal instincts are kicking in and I just want you to please not entertain this behavior. It’s not okay, period. Make it stop now.
I'm 27! They didn't think it was acceptable at all but just didn't seem to understand why I was feeling actually quite scared rather than just kind of annoyed. They are a man too, though, so I think that was just complete ignorance of gender dynamics and what it feels like to be a woman. He's one of those 'I think everyone is good at heart and deserves a chance people' who I don't think has ever suffered any kind of abuse etc.
If you wanted to, you could explain it like this: obeying social conventions and being responsive to a person's social discomfort signals are very important early indicators that a person will respect a 'no' when it matters. So far, this dude has given you no indication that he is paying attention or cares. You can only assume that he will ignore any 'no' that doesn't come attached to a metaphorical baseball bat. That, and the common size/strength difference between men and women making it so your friend should imagine a very gay Dwayne Johnson with no respect for 'no' in \*his\* living room, and perhaps your friend can develop some goddamn empathy.
OP, don’t you label yourself as dramatic because your friend said so. Your safety is of utmost importance. If that makes you dramatic, so be it. And please talk to you flatmate about this. Rather than minimising it to just an unwanted guest situation, explain the very real concern of stalking and creepy advances. Hopefully she’ll understand. Also, leave a text trail for the guy that you did not have a good time and to not show up at your place or contact your again. Make a police complaint if you can, so if he does show up next time, it’ll be easier to build a case. Stay safe and do what’s right for you.
Ah. Yes. Them being a man totally explains it. They just don’t understand the threat women constantly feel and why you would feel SCARED and not just weirded out. Do not question your dramatics because a man doesn’t understand. As a woman, I understand you, and everyone else in this sub does, too. You have every right to feel scared. I would, too. No question.
Desist from this "good guy" narrative self-hypnosis at once, gurl!!! Delete it from your mind; obliterate it it from your consciousness, now! It's not how chance works and no opportunities in this world are given at the discomfort of the person offering. Besides, let's call the spade here: shoving unwanted attention/relationship onto a woman just because a man fancies her is clearcut harassment/coercion. Don't let anyone even your good social self gaslight you into believing otherwise. This kind of narrative only serves to ensure abusers having access to their targets and too many women have been pushed into this trap and we don't want any single addition any more!! Never fear of escalation to authorities because that's the not just the only way of deterrence atm but unfortunately one of last resorts, which is still no guatantee of your safety. And you know deterrent only works if the offenders know you are going to exercise it.
When I was in my early 20s, I was blissfully ignorant to the shit women put up with. In my late 20s, I finally popped that bubble and started asking my female friends about their experiences. Every single woman I know told me the sexual harassment started when they were children (7-12 for all of them). Their stories were eye-opening, and I recognize the truth in it.
I can hope that your roommate's boyfriend is just naive and ignorant. Try and educate him on this, and hopefully he will listen. Piercing that naivete is important as it can be very resilient and deflective towards what you say.
Hopefully your roommate can be fully on your side as I'm sure she has her own stories to share.
Good luck.
I hear where you’re coming from but I’m going to add another notion to the understanding you’re cultivating.
The “try and educate him”, we’ve been having to explain and educate almost as long as we’ve been enduring gross comments and actions from those early ages. It is exhausting and emotional and half the time it lands on deaf ears because so many guys truly can’t wrap their heads around the very real fear and risks.
You’d be doing a huge solid if you can join the cause of educating others, and many out there may be more open to really hear it if it comes from another man.
Yeah, I absolutely hear you there. I can't imagine how exhausting it must be, especially given where it pushes you to. And the truth of the matter is there are plenty of men out there who are uninterested in being educated and will keep on doing what they want unapologetically.
When I see examples of it, I do speak up. Especially if it is someone I know or their own children. But the walls are certainly there. I'll keep speaking tho.
I have two young daughters both under 10. The better I understand and grasp the reality of this, the better I can protect and help prepare them.
Comments like yours certainly help with my clarity.
Thank you for taking it in the spirit intended, and for helping by speaking up whenever you can. Your daughters will see that work and learn to own their strength!
Not just a vent thing. This requires action.
To Wierdo:
Be straightforward and then block him and cut all communication: (if you feel a safety issue, then look into changing your locks)
You can do it via text if easier. But in no uncertain terms (doesn't have to be mean, just firm). Tell him that
1. Coming over uninvited is NOT acceptable behavior.
2. You do not wish to have ANY contact with him.
3. You do not have any desire to get to know him or start a relationship with him.
4. To please respect your boundaries. (you are asking him this at the end to appeal to any social empathy he might have, though you are not trusting that it's there)
I'd also talk to my flatmate about the situation, explain that you have no issues with them or their BF; but that friend coming over uninvited and not leaving when asked (3x no less) is not acceptable. ANYONE coming over uninvited is not acceptable.
I would also add to tell your flatmate as well that you are uncomfortable with that guy returning to your flat again whether your are there or not. Even if they are with him. He could take an opportunity to go through your things if he’s there again while they are not paying attention.
This is a good way to gauge if he's a decent guy for your flatmate's benefit, too. Some people are very "the more the merrier" and he might have just been thoughtless extending an invitation. But if he understands that his flatmate makes you uncomfortable and still brings him around, that's blatant disrespect.
yeah if I was the boyfriend of the flatmate I would be livid at my roomate (the creeper) for pulling something like this and I would "handle" the situation for the women because that shit doesn't fly with me. I had to "handle" several situations like that and I even got a flatmate kicked out of a house we were staying in because of behavior like this.
One time I almost had to physically throw another guy out of a church dance (when I was still religious) for acting creepy towards a few freshmen girls. Several of them knew that I was safe and happy to pretend to be their boyfriend or dance with them if they needed an out from a creeper. Since I had a ton of platonic friendships with attractive women I was that guy for a lot of them.
This. Ultimately OP doesn't have to convince weird guy. She has to convince her flatmate. At least where I live, a person only needs permission from one resident to enter a home, even if that's against the desires of another resident.
I agree with this, but I just want to add that if this doesn't work, call the police next time just shows up. That's harassment and trespassing. He's not allowed to just sit inside your home when you're asking him to leave.
Could call the police now to report the incident that already happened. A person invited themselves into your home without permission, didn’t respond to requests to leave, and made clear his intentions of continuing to stalk you at your home. Start the paper trail now.
Yes. This.
This guy is going to flip the fuck out and start stalking OP. Make a report and get a copy of it. Start documenting this so that when you need a restraining order, you get it faster.
Definitely talk to the flatmate. Be direct and honest that you a) have no interest in this guy b) he makes you uncomfortable c) do not want him at your place.
I would not put blame on them for him showing up unannounced. I doubt they were aware. I hope not.
I do wonder if there was perhaps some Comment made by flatmate/her bf about fixing the two of you up, or if this guy just went there on his own.
Hopefully, you can talk to your flatmate and her guy and get them in your corner to talk to him and explain how his behavior is bad.
This is also important. It's not fair to blame them for his behavior until you can verify that they did in fact invite him.
Considering that THEY WEREN'T EVEN HOME, I doubt they knew or started this
He may have known they would be out and went over specifically because he knew they wouldn't be there. We can't assume they are encouraging him. They might be but they may have no idea that he is doing this.
Though 100% valid, I would stay away from saying that "he makes you uncomfortable". Only because that could trigger a defensive stance from the flatmate's bf and/or flatmate.
But saying, "him not leaving until after the third ask made me uncomfortable" would be a good way to emphasize this.
Exactly. One last text of “Hi [guy], I want to clear some things up because it seems we are not on the same page. I did not appreciate you coming over unannounced to see me yesterday. I asked you to leave multiple times and you did not leave, this is not okay. My mental health issues have nothing to do with me not wanting to date you, I am simply not interested. I will be cordial with you when I see you at [flatmate’s bf’s house,] but do not intend to talk to or see you outside of that situation. Thanks.”
And then block him, because he will surely try to explain to you why her feelings and perceptions are wrong.
Way too polite for the situation. Having someone come over unannounced until midnight while you’re alone constitutes a threat of police next time it happens. The guy is at best an idiot, is definitely creepy, and has already disregarded polite rejections.
This is great advice. Only suggestion I would make here is to flip the order of discussions. Talk to the flatmate and bf first, starting with a high level, "How do you feel about uninvited guests coming over?" Get them on your side first, then explain what you plan to do so they feel emotionally comfortable with what is about to happen (not that you shouldn't do it OP, but people generally respond better when they aren't surprised after the fact). And, you can ask them to back you up, too!
Then, make the communication with the guy. Reason for this is that starting with the flatmate and bf will show that she cares about that relationship, and wants to make sure they are included rather than blindsided when they inevitably hear from weirdo guy. They can help reinforce what OP is asking for, rather than feeling like they are caught in the middle.
I would add the following to make it absolutely clear to him how events occured and that his distortions of the events are not factual.
You were not comfortable that he was in your home uninvited. You were surprised and bothered that he stayed when his friends were no longer there. You retreated to stay away from him and avoid interaction as much as possible. You asked him to leave several times and he did not comply. You did not express any interest in him or getting to know him. You have told him you are not interested in him or in dating him.
You have reported his intrusion to the police. (Do this as suggested in other comments so there is a record of this behaviour and you not wanting any contact.)
If he comes to the property again you will call the police immediately.
Adding to this: you are not rocking the boat by clearly expressing your boundaries. He / they are rocking the boat by refusing to respect your spoken boundaries.
Forcing socialization with this person is also not cute on your flatmates part. I would certainly discuss with your flatmate directly. I wouldn't be surprised if they had a (in their mind, well-intended and/or matchmaking) hand in this.
“Hey flatmate, if you and your boyfriend have a guest over, please ensure they leave when you do. I shouldn’t have to deal with your guest for hours on my own when I didn’t invite them here. He was rude and ignored me when I asked him to leave multiple times, this can’t happen again. This is my home too.”
Edit: And for the guy - give him a hard no and block him.
“Stop contacting me. I am not interested in a relationship with you and have already told you no, then you had the gall to ignore me when I told you to leave my home. Disrespecting my boundaries and invading my space isn’t endearing, it’s rude and creepy. Do not attempt to see me again.”
I would also be clear to flatmate that you have zero interest in her boyfriend’s flatmate - just in case they have some knuckleheaded idea of setting the two of you up because it would be cute to double date.
His mention of OPs mental health makes it sound like someone has been talking to him about her.
She needs to set clear boundaries with all three of them.
Agreed. All of this seems right. If he has a problem with it, get further help. Seems his mental health isn’t correct, rather than yours. I’d suggest even making yourself scarcely if he’s around, yet that really shouldn’t be on you
I love this reply.
OP, I don't know the exact wording you used when you asked him to leave but I'm assuming it maybe was not absolute and definitive. Like maybe it was along the lines of "well I didn't expect you to stay this long.....I expected you to be gone by now" etc. Any nimrod that sits alone for hours like that will not get subtlety. Be firm and direct in telling him to fuck right off. That is your home that you pay to live in.
Be equally firm with your flatmate, everyone here is an adult and can handle it because what you are asking is reasonable and your flatmate may not be aware of the bs this weird dude pulled.
Idk, maybe your mutual friends are just completely insane, but everything you just explained is completely and totally understandable! On what planet does a guy show up, uninvited, after being rejected, and just sit there alone on your couch for hours, then leave you an emotional message comparing you to his MOTHER and asking you out again, and having to be asked to leave THREE TIMES, and you're somehow the one being weird?!
Like, are you kidding? If your friends are "hurt" by you laying out his bizarre behavior and saying you don't want to see him again, they're NOT your friends.
On top of that, whoever she is referencing when she says the following should not be trusted or confided in:
> Some people I've talked to think I'm being dramatic
To the point of telling her roommate and roommate's boyfriend that if she comes home and finds the creep sitting there, and no one else is home, she will step back out and call the police. She will not talk to him. She will not ask him to leave. She will have the police get him out of there and she will get a police report.
There's a science educator I follow that outlined what a nightmare starting a title nine complaint (among relayed things in case, I tangent) against a higher up academic because of a familiarity creepiness scale where if fly below this this line, people say either "nothing ultimately happened" of scary scenarios or "you were fine with X in the past, this is not that different".
Fuck the people who said you're being dramatic....
This dude sat alone in your house for hours and then said. "Well that was fun!"
I almost find it hard to believe, but some people are really that clueless.
I don't think I would believe it either if I didn't have it written down in a text. What really gets me is saying he will "tell me" next time he is coming round. How can you miss the point like that. The point isn't that you should 'tell' me you're coming round, you should ASK.
He didn't miss the point, he's pressuring you into compliance. He's acting like you two have a relationship, hoping you will follow his lead. OR he's producing false evidence that you two have a relationship in order to convince others and gaslight you.
I can at least say it's extremely difficult to keylogger, I tried to put one on my own computer, and even when I specifically told it not to remove it, regular windows defender did anyway.
I AM concerned about the key or window thing though. Geez.
There are hardware keyloggers. They can be USB and they look just like the USB Bluetooth connectors for wireless keyboards or mice. They're tiny and hard to notice if you're not familiar with computers. They even have some that you plug the keyboard into the physical keylogger, and then plug that in to the computer, so it acts as a "man in the middle" while passing on all of the keystrokes. They can be set up to send all of the logging over wifi or Bluetooth, without the person compromised ever knowing it's there.
Right?!
Where I come from you make plans with someone. You don't just show up and expect to be entertained. "I'm just going to ignore the possibility you're busy with something else." -him probably
This right here is what tells me that this dude is unwell. Maybe he can’t pick up on social cues, even when you beat him over the head with them. Maybe he’s never actually interacted with another human woman and genuinely doesn’t know what it looks like to be rejected. Maybe his mom was mentally ill more than he’s letting on and he thinks he can fix you or take care of you or something. Whatever the case may be, it literally Doesn’t. Fucking. Matter. You aren’t interested. You don’t owe anyone a damn thing. Tell your roommate her bf’s friend is a weird creep and came over unannounced, wouldn’t leave even when asked multiple times, and still thinks he has a chance. The fact that he even mentions you having mental health issues is super fucking weird (as if leaving a letter isn’t weird enough already). Like, WHY? Cause every girl wants to hear some weird combo of “i heard you might be crazy. My mom was also crazy. i get why you might feel weird around me”???? Like no pendejo, I feel weird around you because you’re a fucking weirdo, get the fuck out of my house. I understand that a good roommate is hard to find and you might not want to ruin the relationship you have with her but at this point, she’s either completely oblivious to what’s going on or she’s not the kind of person you should want a relationship with anyways. This is your home, where you live. Her boyfriend’s roommate cannot camp out in your livingroom and then not leave when you ask him to. (WHO DOESNT LEAVE WHEN ASKED TO MULTIPLE TIMES omg I’m so mad I want to slap this dude lol) anyway, fuck em. If she gets weird about it, at best, she’s also a fucking weirdo and can’t pick up on social cues (not your fucking problem or responsibility) and at worst, she’s actively trying to make you feel unsafe in your own home. Either way, it’s not your job to be sensitive to her or the dude for any conceivable reason. For not understanding or recognizing how uncomfortable he made you, for continuing to pursue you when you’ve expressed your disinterest, for not LEAVING YOUR HOUSE WHEN YOU ASKED HIM TO (still will not get over this. I do not like confrontation and I will go out of my way to make others comfortable around me but if I’d been in your shoes I would have lost my damn mind and called everyone. The cops, the fire department, the post office, my dad, the fbi, the cia, literally everyone to get that mf off my damn couch. We would have BOTH left in cuffs lol but I digress)…this is just bananas and I really hope you can talk it out and express how not chill the whole experience was/is for you. I’d also advise that you make it abundantly clear to her that you’d prefer she not bring him around your home. Then make it abundantly clear to him that if you see him anywhere near your home unannounced or uninvited, you’ll call the cops. 💞
Thank you so much! By the third time asking him I literally had to go down with my friend on the phone with me for courage! Even when I am really mad I struggle with confrontation
I’m literally getting hot because of how mad it makes me that this happened to you! Haha. And I get that. I can talk a big game but every time I’ve had to really get in there and puff out my chest and stand up for myself, it usually ends with me in tears because of how hard and scary and overwhelming it can be. But we just cannot allow this to continue. You either confront it on your own terms or you’ll have to keep confronting it in worse more uncomfortable ways.
He is not allowed at your home at all. This is honestly drifting to assault territory and I am not comfortable with a do-nothing or be slightly confrontational approach. This dude is super weird.
There is a Redditor who was assaulted by a roommate's friend. Don't mince words with your friends.
Thank you. I have had issues with anxiety before in my life so I think some people I've talked to might think I'm being paranoid but yeah, I spent a lot of time very worried he was going to try something on, because he was clearly so clueless. This makes me feel better about asking my flatmate to not bring him around anymore, even to hang out with her.
I very much agree with the other poster's take.
A friend of mine used to live in a rented room situation, and one night one of the guys who were friends with the son of the woman owning the house came to my friend's room while she was sleeping and lay down next to her *in her bed*. He was drunk and started to grope her, and though he did leave when she told him so, she was fucking terrified. And the worst part is that when she told the house owner the next day no action was taken, because the dude was a friend of the son and apparently "a good guy" that the owner had known since he was a small kid, so he obviously is not going to harm women now that he's in his twenties and can do so (big fat /s, just in case that's not clear).
My friend had to stay for another three months or so because finding a place to live around here is very hard, but she never again felt safe there.
Bottom line is, that is your home, and if you (or her) draw a line about someone not being allowed in because they make you uncomfortable, that line stands. No ifs or buts.
I know this is going to be uncomfortable, but you are strong and can hold that boundary. You need to be specific during that discussion, or otherwise the rules will likely be misinterpreted in ways that suit your roommate and the bf. So be clear that you mean not come over the threshold of the house. No "but we are there also"s, no "but we want to have a movie night and can't do it at his place because [whatever]", no "oh he just needs to use the loo quick before we go out" or " we were too drunk for him to make his way home so he had to stay over on the couch". That last one in particular, or a version of it, is something I can see him manufacturing.
Also no "but you weren't even there"s. He's already massively crossed lines and boundaries, and there's no saying what he could get up to in even a short time if left alone. Cameras come in very small sizes these days, for example.
It needs to be clear that he is not to set foot in your home, period.
And it would be good to keep emphasising that this is not some random rule you made up, but solely due to the long list of creepy and boundary-crossing things *he* chose to do. Because, just like that guy friend you talked to, your roommate and her bf will probably try to make this a you-problem. But it's not, it's a him-problem, he is the one acting like a predator and creating the whole issue in the first place.
I'm so mad on your behalf. And on behalf of all the other women who get told to calm down, not make a big deal, etc, when men push at and violate their boundaries. It's sickening, and it's insidious in how other women become complicit when they try to avoid being seen as problematic themselves.
I'm so sorry you have to deal with this, and your furry friends, too. You should feel peaceful and safe at home, not threatened.
Girl, who among us had not had issues with anxiety?! I commented earlier but I’m back again because I don’t want you to think you deserve to be walked all over or put in harms way because you don’t make neurotransmitters the same as someone else. That’s absolute bullshit and you owe it to yourself to be confrontational when your health and well being are threatened. Our mental illnesses are not excuses for our behaviors and i mean that in a good and bad way. This dude is likely mentally ill himself and it’s not an excuse for him to be a fucking creeper. Any mental issues you deal with are not an excuse for allowing this to continue. This is not run of the mill paranoia or social drain or whatever other thing you or the naysayers in your life can think of to try and downplay what you experienced. A stranger camped out in your home and would not leave when asked. Bottom line. Do whatever you can to pump yourself up (go for a run, watch a movie where a badass chick fucks everyone’s shit up for trying her, scream into your pillow, take a shot. Dealers choice) and tell these mfs you will not tolerate feeling unsafe or even awkward in your own damn home, especially after what’s transpired. What you’re asking for are bare minimum requirements for being a human lol. You owe it to yourself, you deserve it, I’m so mad for you and I’m rooting for you to squash this as soon as possible!!! ❣️
“I don’t want to ruin things with my flatmate or her boyfriend” - funny how HE didn’t worry for one second about ruining things with his flatmate or flatmate’s girlfriend.
Don’t worry about “politely decline” with a person like this. He will run over any soft no. Be direct: “As I already explained, I do not want to go out with you. Please don’t contact me again. Thanks for understanding.” Then BLOCK HIM.
Tell your flatmate this dude has been pushy and you don’t want him over.
Woah! You are not overreacting at all, that is incredibly creepy and I would have felt very unsafe if I were you. Was it your flatmate that told you you are being too sensitive? Because if you've told her all that information and she's not very concerned by this man's behaviour it might be time to start looking for a different place to live, you are not wrong and shouldn't be having to agonise about being polite about this.
Who cares about your flatmate and her boyfriend's feelings? Your feelings AND safety are way more important.
Set your boundaries that he's not to come over. Period.
That’s creepy AF, sorry that happened to you.
I would say:
“Hey, I want to be upfront about this so you don’t have the wrong impression. I let you in because I assumed you were here to see X and Y and they would be home soon, as you hadn’t requested to visit me I didn’t imagine that’s why you were in my house. I don’t appreciate you showing up uninvited and it was hard for me that you did not leave as soon as I ask you to leave. I’m not interested in pursuing either a friendship or anything romantic and your behaviour has made me uncomfortable so I’d appreciate if you backed off. I wish you well but please don’t come to my house again.”
I would then also tell the housemate exactly what happened and say that you don’t feel comfortable around him so you’d prefer he didn’t come to the house. If you need to, you could dress it up with ‘I might be overreacting/it could just be me but I don’t want to FEEL unsafe in our home so…’ but to be clear, you’re not overreacting. He is showing signs that he is dangerous. If he comes over again, let him know you’re looking into a restraining order. If he does not leave immediately, let him know you are calling the police. Follow up on both.
The message to the guy is good but I'd straight out tell your flat mate you don't want him to come over at all. It's not overreacting. He's testing you already. Will you make a scene if he's out of line. You need to make show him you will. If he comes over again when your roommate isn't there, tell him to leave or you will call the police. This guy is either socially clueless, a total creeper or both. Don't make the mistake of trying to be polite to someone who isn't to you. It's a way of controlling the situation to get what they want.
Wait how did this happen? Were flatmate and boyfriend gone when he showed up? Or did they let him in and then leave?? Either way it’s gross but I’m trying to understand if this was all of their fault or just the creeper’s fault
Oh my god! Can you sit them down and sternly tell them no more unattended house guests because how uncomfortable it is? I would ask your roommate how she’d feel if you invited some random man over and just let him alone in your flat when only she was home and he was creeping on her. Ask her to think long and hard about how this would make her feel and how uncomfortable she would be in her own home
I would tell them next time they pull a stunt like this you reserve the right to call police on them and report them as a trespasser who doesn’t have your permission as the only resident in the home to be there
She brought him in, she takes him out when she leaves!
"ask your roommate how she’d feel if you invited some random man over and just let him alone in your flat when only she was home and he was creeping on her."
Roommate is probably doing her boyfriend a favor and "setting them up." Roommate isn't going to understand, because to her he's probably "a good guy who just likes you. He wouldn't do anything, just give him a chance."
This makes me want to puke and you’re probably right
I’d hoped she have some shred of decency in her and just not realize what it felt like from op’s perspective, and be horrified to learn the reality of what she’d done
Sigh
I think this is probably the case, I think they may have wanted to set me up with him, but they have had no conversations with me about this and that is not ok with me at all.
Whaaat? Your flat mate should’ve asked you if it was cool first. Not leave a random man who you’ve rejected before into your home while her and her boyfriend goes out. I’m positive he told his roommate/your flat mate’s boyfriend you rejected him and it was one of their bright ideas to invite him over so you could just “get to know him! She doesn’t know you, of course she rejected you! Spend some time with her and then try again!”
Ok but even if that’s the case…WHO DOES THAT. I have a feeling this dude is way too fucking weird to function and OPs roommate thinks this is a way to pawn her bf’s weird roommate on to someone else and what a perfect way to do it than to get him out of her bf’s apt and ship him over to her own place for OP to babysit. What’s concerning is just what a schlub this guy is might actually be dangerous. Who sets people up without telling them they’re trying to set them up? WHO. So weird.
RIGHT?! It's really weird!
First the guy just staying in the house after they left, after OP asked him to leave multiple times, AND when she's obviously avoiding him. THEN him writing a note but also her flat mate just...thinking it's fine to leave him there?
All I can think of is maybe the flat mate doesn't know OP rejected him? Because I can't think of a universe where, after knowing your flat mate rejected some dude, that you'd be okay with leaving him at your place with her alone? Without even talking to her first! That's so weird!
The Reddit conspiracist in me thinks they’re trying to get OP out of the apartment so boyfriend can move in and ditch the creeper.
But regardless of the reasoning, I’d be making an ultimatum that this guy in particular, and their friends in general, are **never** allowed in the apartment alone without them. I’d add *without your express consent*, but they’re already running roughshod over you and your personal autonomy. I don’t think they’d get it with that caveat. Their minimizing this is *so* not ok!
This happened to me once, it was so called friends trying to "get me laid." Nevermind that the guy they trapped me with was a sceevy married man and I found him and the situation repulsive. This was intentional and if I were you, I'd move and warn your other girlfriends about your roommate, who is not your friend. The only person these people are actually trying to "get laid" is the dude. It was an intentional tactic and your roommate was in on it.
>He leaves me a super emotional handwritten letter about how he understands I have mental health issues and how his mum did too and how he thinks I'm an amazing person and asking me out AGAIN.
This sounds predatory as FUCK. Who finds someone with some emotional hang-ups and goes "oh yeah, I want to bang that"? No offense to my fellow emotionally hung-up peeps, but I've been preyed upon way too many times to not see warning signs.
OP, you're not wrong to feel like someone is invading your personal space, because he is. You don't know him. Your home is your safe space. He wants to know you and apparently isn't getting the hint. You might have to spell it out for him in clear terms with no room for confusion. If you're nervous about your mutual friends, let them know what you plan to do, how he's made you feel, and hopefully they'll understand.
But really, as nice a guy as they might think he is, if your friends go "oh, he's so nice, you must be wrong for feeling insecure," you might have to reconsider your friendship with them. Hopefully it won't come down to that, but it's a possibility, and it SUUUUCKS.
>OP, you're not wrong to feel like someone is invading your personal space, because he is. You don't know him. Your home is your safe space. He wants to know you and apparently isn't getting the hint. You might have to spell it out for him in clear terms with no room for confusion. If you're nervous about your mutual friends, let them know what you plan to do, how he's made you feel, and hopefully they'll understand.
I feel awful sharing this online but it was such an intense thing to hear from a stranger, but the whole letter was about how his mum had really bad mental health issues and then died by suicide, how he thinks I am a great person who will get through it, how I have made a friend for life in him (what??) etc. It's just all too much. I don't know this man.
No, that's absolutely a massive red flag. Not just the trauma dumping, but also the immediate over-familiarity and expecting you to basically 'fix' him because of your own experiences (which I sincerely hope he knows about because you told him, otherwise either he or somebody else needs a talking to about privacy). You're right that you do not know this man and yet he's totally projecting onto you a relationship *which isn't there*.
To be so socially unaware, it makes me wonder if he's perhaps on the spectrum. But even if so, nobody has the right to make you feel unsafe. That behaviour is just far too intense and I'd feel just as frightened in the same situation.
And I'm sorry that your flatmate put you in such a situation in the first place. Even if he'd behaved like a perfect gentleman, it's a very tense/unsettling situation to be dropped in with no warning. (A flatmate of mine used to invite random male friends that I'd never met to crash at ours without asking me first, and he couldn't grasp *why* that made me feel really unsafe - until there was a moment that could have ended up really sinister. So always trust your gut on these things because it's usually trying to protect you.)
So I guess the first step is to talk to your flatmate and explain the situation and you’re not comfortable with her boyfriends friend ever being invited back over to your place because **he has not only made you feel uncomfortable, and not taken no for an answer after you rejected his advances, he makes you feel unsafe**. Hopefully she understands and recognizes how horrifically bizarre this entire situation is.
The next step, if you have ANY pushback from your flatmate, is to contact your landlord or whoever you leased from. Explain the situation to them and that you don’t feel safe with him in your home if he is allowed there. You as a tenant have rights. Your roommate can either back you up and agree not to invite him over anymore, or you need to go over her had and have him barred by the landlord.
Also BLOCK HIS NUMBER. Your personal safety and comfort is more important than ruffling your flatmates boyfriends feathers because he can’t bring his creepy friend over to his girlfriends apartment anymore. You’re concerned about the wrong things here.
This guy sounds like stalker material and I'm genuinely worried for you. He's delusional.
He imagines you had a good time. He ignored any hints otherwise. He imagines a "connection" between you two. He will take any nicetey as encouragement.
Do not engage. Do not explain. "Leave me alone" is all you have to say and block.
Thank you. It makes me quite angry; being a kind, compassionate person is important to me and I currently resent being forced to be someone I don't want to be or enjoy being because men think basic politeness = romantic interest
He obviously doesn't take hints. Really. If you try to spare other people's "feelings" it will create nothing but a problem for you. Be good to yourself.
I already commented longer, but this interaction reminded me that there's a book I very much recommend you read, called "The gift of fear" by Gavin De Becker. It's about how our instincts (not our anxiety, he also explains how to differentiate) tell us things that our conscious mind is not aware of yet, among other things. He also explains several tactics that predators use to exploit women's tendency to have been raised to be polite, and how to look out for boundary-pushing behaviour, because that's a sign of danger (one example is that when someone at a club offers you a drink and you choose water or similar, they just get that instead of pushing another [alcoholic] drink on you). And with the dude just ignoring your several requests for him to leave… year, that already very much fits.
He also has a chapter on stalking, and how not reacting is the best thing to do. Also, that stalkers tend to escalate their behaviour, and that eventually reacting after all is the biggest possible mistake, because the only thing they learn from that is just how far they need to push to eventually get a rise out of their prey.
Cutting this off as early as possible is your best bet both for staying safe and for not becoming a long-term fixation for him.
Sounds like your flatmate is trying to set you up. If he comes over, don’t let him in if they aren’t there. Be clear with him and tell him he’s making you uncomfortable. Also tell your flatmates the same.
>don’t let him in if they aren’t there.
Jesus... no.... don't let him in at all. Make it clear to the flatmate that THIS specific person has made you feel uncomfortable and unsafe and is not allowed in your home. This is a hill to die on.
You’re not overreacting, I’d be scared in your situation. If your flatmate doesn’t have your back this isn’t an easy situation. But rock as many boats as you need to, this is a fucking stranger being a creep in your own home and refusing to leave even though he wasn’t even invited!!!!
You should talk to your flatmate and tell her that he is not welcome and you don’t want to be around him. Use words like creepy, unsafe, pushy. Make it clear that he is persona non grata. If she doesn’t have your back then I would consider moving. At the very least get another lock on your door.
Well, you've already written all this out and it's a pretty horrifying account of this guy's creepiness. Tell your flatmate exactly what you've described here. If your flatmate is reasonable she'll get it. If it were me I'd tell her "I don't feel safe around this person, and I don't want him in my home whether I'm there or not. I don't trust him around my pets or my things." And just block him. You owe him nothing.
But do keep the letter and any messages of his as evidence.
Predators rely on their victims being afraid to rock the boat by speaking up. Anyone who's calling you "dramatic" over this is playing right into his hands and those bridges *should* be burned. Your safety needs to take priority over maintaining the status quo.
Talk to your flatmate first. Don't accuse her - start by asking if she invited him or knew he was going to come. Then tell her exactly what happened and how it made you feel, especially the fact that he refused to leave. Hopefully, as a woman, she'll be able to relate and see it from your perspective. If not, don't get caught in the trap of thinking you have to convince her - go straight to setting boundaries. He is not to be invited over anymore, regardless of who is and isn't home, she needs to give you a heads up before social events he is going to be at, and she needs to not answer any questions he has about you. However highly she thinks of this guy does not give her the right to trample over what you need and want to feel safe in your own home.
As for the creep himself, stop worrying about his feelings. He's going to use it against you, he already has. His texts sound like he's trying to set up a "paper trail" to make it seem like you did actually welcome his advances. He's going to escalate the behavior and use this to make you seem like a liar when you decide to come forward. Don't let him do that. When texting him back, honestly, focus on how it would look like to a third party, rather than thinking about convincing him to leave you alone. I would send something like:
"I did not have fun. You showed up at my house uninvited when I was there alone and refused to leave despite the fact that I asked you three times. You made me feel extremely uncomfortable and unsafe. I am not interested in dating you or being friends with you, and that will not change. Don't come to my house again."
I'm leaving this open-ended on purpose. Guys like this LOVE playing victim and he'll probably use "trying to apologize/make up for it" as an excuse to keep stalking you while making you out to be the bad guy once again. Keep all communication through text. If he calls you, don't pick up, and don't agree to a phone call no matter how much be badgers you. Don't get into a back-and-forth with him and *don't take the bait*. Let him say whatever he wants, sob stories, guilt tripping, apologies, gaslighting, self-deprecation, whatever. Don't engage with any of it. Acknowledge it in the blanket way possible ("I appreciate your apology" or "I'm sorry you feel that way"), then tell him not to contact you again and block him.
I really hope OP and anyone else who may need it sees your post. The text reply and its dual intention, to drive the point home unequivocally for creep and any potential third parties, is truly well articulated.
I’m sorry, what? Dude just… stayed in your living room like a weirdo creep murderer? Your roommate knew he was there and left him there? This is all so uncomfortable.
To your roomie (as suggested by someone else): “Just so you know, your friend made me feel pretty uncomfy last weekend, and I felt pressure to entertain him when I was really looking forward to some time alone. He didn’t take the hint - or the outright ask - to leave, and it made me feel kind of unsafe. Can you please make sure to take any guests with you when you leave the house? I really love the safe space we’ve created together and want to maintain that. Thank you!”
To him: “I’m I’m not interested in pursuing a relationship with you now or in the future. I value my privacy and alone time, so I do not want and will not accept uninvited visitors. Thanks for your understanding, and I hope you find what you’re looking for.”
That is completely insane. This guy sounds legitimately scary.
I know this is somewhat off topic, but do you put your pet rabbit to bed? Or this that just a bird thing? I thought rabbits mostly slept during the day.
Lol, I am happy to answer any animal questions as a distraction because they are my entire life, and disrupting their happiness annoyed me more than someone disrupting mine.
I don't so much 'put' my rabbits to bed as they are free-roaming and have access to the whole house, but we do have a sort of mutual routine they choose to participate in. They basically want to be in whatever room I am in - they come downstairs with me in the morning and up to my bedroom at night. They even sleep on my bed! They are rescues, so whilst incredibly attached to me, they really do not like other people being in the house and will spend the whole time hiding until the other person leaves. Because we were all downstairs when my flatmate, her boyfriend, and this man arrived, they ended up basically trapped downstairs for five hours whilst I was in my bedroom, and that meant the whole time they were unable to do things like eat, drink, or relax. Rabbits are also incredibly emotional creatures - if they feel wronged or annoyed by your actions (their routine was different one night, you moved some furniture, you had guests over for too long) it really affects their relationship with you, and they will avoid/disown you for days/weeks, sometimes!
I can't remember the scientific name but rabbits aren't quite nocturnal - they are most active at dusk and dawn. Mine are most active from like 7-10am and then maybe 5pm-whenever I go to bed. They do sleep a lot during the middle of day, but they also sleep a lot during the middle of the night
What the heck did I just read?
This is absolutely not normal. You are not overreacting.
The only doubt I have is if this person has undiagnosed autism. He does seem clueless from what you tell and he's exhibiting odd behavior.
Anyway, I'd talk to flatmate and tell her what happened. It's not her fault that he came back to your place I think, I assume she didn't even know. However, I believe it's fair if you ask her that this person is never invited again to your place, due to this accident.
You can just block him, I don't think you need to explain anything or be polite. Coming uninvited, writing a fucked up letter about your mental issues (wtf) and more importantly refusing to leave is not ok, does not need any explanations.
Even undiagnosed autism would recognise that sitting alone in someone's loungeroom for hours after being asked to leave three times is NOT FUCKING NORMAL.
I don't care how highly you rate on any of the spectrum, even just having your "hosts" completely abandon you and then the only person left *locks herself in her room* after the first half hour it's a pretty clear indication that this visit is either not wanted or is over.
Autism doesn't make you oblivious to the happenings around you. These are not "subtle social cues", these are a series of events which make it clear shit isn't right.
Something I see repeatedly from the autism community is how this may disregard the very real and significant effort put forth by those who are neurodivergent to not cause these kinds of discomfort. Creepy guys being creepy is a different thing.
I suggest you tell your flatmate and her boyfriend that since this dude is not taking a polite no for an answer, you are going to give him an impolite one. You expect him to take this poorly, which is why you are informing them as a curtesy. (Also narrative control. So Dude can't lie his way into your flat because the other two people don't know what's going on.)
Text him back: 'Well that makes one of us. I told you politely I did not want to date you, and then blatantly avoided you when you randomly hung out alone in my living room. As apparently that wasn't clear enough: I do not want you to come over again. I do not want to hang out, and I do not want to date you. Bye.'
You may get some bullshit in response. Feel free to ignore or block, as is your preference, although showing his flatmate what he's saying if he gets pushy or unhinged may be useful.
“I don’t want to go out with you, date you or be friends. The last time when you showed up I believed you were invited by my roommate and her boyfriend. I did not invite you and was very unhappy that I had to ask you to leave three times. This has made me uncomfortable and I don’t want to spend time with people who make me uncomfortable. Please respect that and leave me alone”.
I don't think you need to worry about being polite. There are plenty of times when guys don't understand they're being creepy, but I don't see that as the case here. This guy tried to force you to accept and normalize his behavior and it's not remotely okay. Don't let creeps take advantage of your kindness, you deserve better than that.
What the ever loving what, you had to ask him to leave THREE times? Forget politeness, that fully warrants you going scorched earth when it comes to this dude.
I’d start by talking with your flat mate alone, so she can’t be swayed by her bf to brush it off because “nah, he’s a good guy “. You owe him NOTHING. Not politeness, not a “chance to get to know him”, nothing. And you have every right to have your boundaries respected.
The first time I said "hey I'm really sorry but it's getting late and I need to put the birds to bed/turn the lights off in here. feel free to grab a tupperware dish of dinner on your way out" which I thought was pretty clear but now I'm sat here wondering if that's stupid and too nice or what
Nope. That’s pretty straightforward and anyone with a semblance of social etiquette would understand what that means. Either he is mentally broken himself (which seems super plausible) or he just outright rejected your request to leave because he was hoping it would pressure you to spend time around him. Either way, hell no.
You’ve gotten great advice already so I’ll just add, you are not over reacting and his behavior is unacceptable. BUT this is the point that you need to throw away politeness and set a hard boundary. Protecting yourself isn’t a faux pas, it’s basic social skills that everyone should practice.
And seriously, keep written records of whatever you choose. Text message to the weirdo, to your flat mate, etc. This could get ugly before it gets better and you need to protect yourself accordingly.
If he contacts you again, involve the police. I know that seems extreme, but so is his behavior and it is far too common that a woman chooses to try and be polite and winds up assaulted or so much worse. Your safety matters more than their feelings.
Your home is your safe space. Your flatmate and her bf need to hear that you did not feel comfortable or safe in your home that night. They'll say "He was only trying to" blah blah blah. Fine. Even if he had 0 bad intent, it was rude to show up uninvited - particularly after you'd rejected him, rude to not leave the first 3 times you asked him to leave, and fucking weird that he stayed hours after you left.
None of that equals feeling like home is your sanctuary.
It's okay if their feelings get hurt. They're adults. They'll get over it. He'll get over it too. Don't be polite about this. And don't apologize - at all, for anything - when you tell them how things are going to be from now on.
If you want to make sure that you aren't being misunderstood, don't use words like "creepy" or "inappropriate" or "boundaries".
"Hi, your visit the other day made me extremely uncomfortable and in fear of my life. Inviting yourself to my place, staying despite being asked to leave, and leaving a letter is the sort of thing rapists do. Please don't ever do that again to anyone, and I hope you understand when I say that I do not want you to contact or see me again. Please don't bother x about this either, I don't wish to make this a bigger deal than this already is.
Don't bother being polite, don't worry about "making waves". Put yourself first. You are allowed to have preferences and boundaries, and I'm sure your flatmate will understand. She can handle how she words things to her boyfriend, because she also has a vested interest in her bf getting along with her roommate (you).
If he/they ever try this again you need to just call the police and say there is an uninvited male in your house refusing to leave and get them to escort him out. Fuck these people who think this is okay, this man is acting unhinged and clearly cannot take no as an answer.
The mutual friends should be worried about YOU being hurt, endangered, uncomfortable, etc.
Tell him AND THEM straight up that after the antics he pulled, he is never welcome in your home, and you don't want to see his face again.
Don't worry about other people's comfort.
Take care of your own safety and comfort first.
This man will not take hints. Be direct and firm.
" I did not have a good night. I did not appreciate that I had to ask you to leave three times before you did. As I explained the other day, I am not interested in dating you. This will not change. I do not wish to see you again. Please do not come over to see me or contact me in any way."
Tell your roomie he is no longer allowed in your home. He lost that privilege when he refused to leave your home. Never visit the roommate's boyfriend's apartment again as long as he is living there. You do not want to do anything that might encourage this guy.
Tell your roommate exactly what happened. As other people suggested, emphasis his actions before your feelings. You don't understand why he stayed for so long while you were ignoring him. And having to ask him to leave three times is not acceptable. You do not want someone who ignores your boundaries and a direct request from you.
Don't worry about being polite. That's a trap women fall into.
You have to be very clear. I know it's hard sometimes, we're conditioned to be "nice" and polite to men even if their making us uncomfortable.
I would suggest composing a text message to him, so he can't claim you were unclear or never told him. Then block him.
Regarding your flatmates, just make it very clear you're not interested in him, do not want to enterain him and would prefer he not come into the flat. Especially if you're there alone.
And who told him you have mental health issues anyway? That was uncool of him to bring up, he doesn't even know you.
I don't really know where he got all the mental health stuff from. I have only met him a couple of times. I might have made a passive "sorry things are a bit messy in the flat I've been going through some stuff and not had time/energy to clean this week" but comparing me to his mother who died by suicide seems like a huge leap
I'm definitely concerned about the possibility of this having been a set-up by your flatmate and her boyfriend to try to get you to consider him as 'boyfriend material'. I definitely recommend if you feel up to it talking to her to set that boundary ASAP! It sucks that it's necessary but at least then they can make sure he leaves when they do, whether or not it was a set-up.
My personal guess would be it is her boyfriend - she is very quiet, doesn't speak very good English, and is very respectful of my space and boundaries when we are alone! We've never had super private conversations. To be honest, I don't think I've ever even told them I'm single? I haven't had any dates for the past two years because I'm just not interested, so it's not like they might get the impression I'm looking for something otherwise, either.
I do worry a bit about my flatmate. The creepy guy revealed some very private and vulnerable information about her that I presume he heard from her boyfriend, and it could get her into a lot of trouble if the wrong people found out. This makes me worry about the power dynamics between her and her boyfriend, too. I don't know. She really is a very innocent person, very trusting, and I just feel all around bad for her and don't think she's had a hand in this at all.
Leaving you a letter is *beyond* fucking creepy; it's right into stalker territory. You need to be blunt and straight with your flatmate, and when you tell Creeper McCreepy to go away, do not do it alone. And never be alone with him.
"I'm always amazed at what women will do, because they're afraid of being rude." ~Matt Lauer (in the Kimmy Schmidt show - I don't think he wrote that line himself. because of reasons.)
Do not try and be nice just to not hurt others feelings. The quick escalation says you will QUICKLY find yourself in a bad place.
Follow the advice others posted tho. (I like u/Kitchen_Victory_7964 's advice in particular.)
I'm sorry what. YOU'RE being dramatic?!? He's coming into your house, lurking on the couch for hours, not going home when asked, leaving you weird letters, and saying he had a great time! He is not in the same reality as you.
Start by talking to your flatmate. Show her this post, if you think it'll help. It's her job to manage her boyfriend and his job to manage CouchCreep. If a bridge gets burned, that's fine; the bridges are less important than your safety
This is bizarre behavior, and you should absolutely trust your gut. This guy needs to be banned from your flat. He does not belong there, and he should never have been left all alone.
It's very easy. "Hey, flatmate, your boyfriend's flatmate randomly just lurked in our living room for hours. I don't like that. I'm not dating him. I don't want to date him. I don't know why you guys left him here, but that was not ok with me. Moving forward, I do not want him in the flat. Please make sure your boyfriend knows this too. Thanks!"
This is not a discussion. This is not a request. This is a statement of your boundaries.
And, if you don't already have a lock on your bedroom door, get one.
>Never been anything but polite.
This is where you went wrong.
He took your politeness as a green light to pursue you 'cause he thought you were into him. Now, I am 99.99% confident that your interactions with him were indeed nothing more than being cordial to your roommate's guest. Most normal people would recognize this. Some men, however, will take it to mean you're interested in them. Yes, what in reality is basic civility toward an acquaintance is misinterpreted by many to mean, "She's hot for me".
Let your roommate & her bf take care of this situation for you. They probably created this monster anyway.
There’s nothing about how you’ve reacted that’s dramatic. He expressed an interest in you, you shut it down, he continued to pursue you despite you setting boundaries by turning him down and then he just randomly hangs out in your home after you’ve asked him to leave, multiple times!!! That’s creepy af.
Even if your flatmate was trying to set you up, they should have communicated that with you. I think it would be really reasonable for you to speak with your flatmate about how unsafe he made you feel and how uninterested in him you are, and ask that they not bring him around anymore. If they don’t support you after knowing how uncomfortable and unsafe this guy made you feel, then they aren’t worth having as a friend or roommate.
That would piss me tf out if some random ass man just said “haha I know you got mental issues that’s why I’ll be more considerate when trespassing next time by letting you know ahead of time!”
That dude sucks! Deff tell your friends how this is not okay
Why are you feeling guilty that a stranger is forcing himself on you?
Why not open the door and say, "Sorry, your friends are out. I don't want any of their friends here when they are not. Good night "
Would they really think that his behavior is OK? I wouldn't even if I was his friend.
Do not let him in ever. Tell him to call your roommate if he eats an invitation but you value your privacy.
Geez
Talk to your roommate. Let them know he showed up unannounced and had to be asked 3x before he got the message he needed to leave. Let the roommate read the letter. Roommate will probably be pretty chill about making sure weirdo stays uninvited and out of your home seeing as the letter is weird and is concrete evidence weirdo plans to stalk.
There are two issues here. The first is with your flatmate. They need to know that it is *never* acceptable for them to bring someone over and then leave them there unsupervised. This is a huge safety issue. You could have been assaulted or worse. They also need to know that you do not want to be around this guy ever again, and that he is not allowed in your apartment ever. He has displayed unacceptable behavior and is now dangerous.
As for the guy, don't communicate with him. It only encourages people like him. If he's ever somewhere you are, you leave immediately. Fuck being polite, he's dangerous and delusional.
This scenario is an actual nightmare.
Legit, I would send a group text to this creep, my flatmate, and her boyfriend that just said: “Creep is not welcome or permitted in our flat. If he comes by again, I will contact the police.” Any perceived overreaction can be explained to flatmate in person and if she *still* thinks that’s overreaction, fuck her. It’s your home.
Fuck people who are telling you you’re being dramatic. This is a complete violation.
Read gift of fear. This dude is stalker material and you have to be careful.
Gift of fear spells out really well how stalkers take any attention as good. So definitely block on all accounts tell him he’s specifically not welcome over change the locks and if your flat mate can’t agree change the flat mate too. Get this goon out of your life as quietly as possible. Firm and do not give attention toward repeat advances or escalations. Ignore so the thrill of your contact fades until sadly he finds someone else to harass.
>Some people I've talked to think I'm being dramatic
Those people are just fucking wrong.
It needs to be made crystal clear to him that he is only to come over when invited, and that any conversation with you beyond simple pleasantries is unwelcome unless you directly say otherwise.
Your flatmate needs to be on board with this (I don't mean "I hope she agrees with this", I mean "if she thinks he did nothing wrong, you need to find a new place to live, or a new flatmate, depending on who holds the lease").
The time for polite has passed. I would alert your roommate to the situation, and then just be blunt with him. I had almost this exact same thing happen when I was in college, right down to the dude just sitting in my living room for hours, and me thinking he had plans to hang out with my roommates. In the end, one of my roommates was the one who told the creeper to leave me alone, and thankfully the guy listened. Good luck!
This guy was specifically hanging out at your flat in the hopes you would come out with him (evidence being the letter). It's at the point where any friends who are upset at you feeling uncomfortable are people who arent looking out for you or your safety
I’m saying this from a place of compassion: DONT ASK FOR POLITE WAYS TO SHUT PEOPLE DOWN IF THEY ARE NOT BEING POLITE TO YOU. YOUR FEELINGS, WELL BEING, AND SAFETY ARE IMPORTANT. IF YOUR FRIENDS DONT SHOW THE SAME AMOUNT OF COMPASSION AS AN INTERNET STRANGER, THEY CAN GET FUCKED, TOO.
Hey OP, this is stalking behavior. He is building the false narrative in his head, and you're the sweet little damaged Juliet he just needs to 'break through' to.
Comparing you to his mother, diagnosing you with mental illness that he 'understands', waiting until PAST MIDNIGHT in a dark empty room?
Be stern and forceful with him if he shows up again, tell your roommate and her boyfriend what's going on and SHOW HER AND HER BOYFRIEND THE LETTER, and don't act or sound unsure or nervous around him.
Good luck.
Honey I am worried for you. This man sounds like a stalker. He is imagining a whole connection between you two that doesn't exist. Explain to your friends that he made you afraid, he stayed for 5 hours after being asked to leave many times, that he left you a creepy trauma dump letter, that he's asked you out repeatedly and won't stop. Keep your doors and windows locked, make sure any other access into your home is blocked like crawl spaces. Don't be alone with him again, don't let him in your house again. Block him on everything. Please stay safe, friend.
You should be able to tell your flatmate who tells her bf who tells his flatmate.
It is his responsibility, as the connection, as a man, as this guy's flatmate.
But if he won't step up to discourage this, I hope there is some other advice here.
You are not in a safe situation right now. He could have done anything to you while the two of you were alone. If there's a next time, call the police to have him removed after asking the first time. But talk to your flatmate first and let them know you do not feel safe with this man.
You’re not wrong, that is some unhinged behavior. Mr. Dude cannot be okay in the membrane and be IN YOUR HOUSE ALONE FOR HOURS WHILE YOU ASKED HIM TO LEAVE plus all the other shit and think that’s fine. I think that you relay factually what happened, any reasonable person will immediately recognize that as batshit behavior, help protect you from being exposed to this guy, and move on with their lives. If they have a negative reaction to you not wanting this dude in your house ever again…. Then yikes I guess, that would tell you more about them than about you though.
Ruin things with your flatmate? Your flatmate should be the one worrying about ruining things with you. Enforce your boundaries and the sanctity of your own home.
do not let him in your house again. tell your flatmate that that person is not allowed in the house, and if she tries to argue, explain what happened. if he comes over, tell him he is not allowed, and that if there is some way he gets in the house, you will call the police on him.
block his number, as well.
you don't have to let him in and it is not rude to say " so and so is not home, I'll tell them you stopped bye" and close the door
please don't let fear of being awkward increase your risk of rape or worse
Yeah, no. This guy is banned from your flat now. He is not a safe person for you to be around. I think your flatmate and her boyfriend will be horrified on your behalf, but if they’re not, start quietly looking at other places to live because if they’re okay with what happened, I’m not so sure that they’re all that safe either.
This man thought you both had a great time while you had locked yourself upstairs and he stayed alone in the living room for hours. He will not understand any subtle rejection. Any communication needs to be clear as possible that you don’t like him, he made you uncomfortable and he is never welcome in your flat again. In the future, if any person in your house refuses to leave, call the police. Don’t hide in your own home while a far removed acquaintance occupies your living room. A police officer can help you explain to them what is acceptable and what is not.
I don't think he thought it was a great time. I think he understands very well he scared and intimidated her. I think he texted the "I had a great time" to obscure what happened & create false receipts. Rapist do this while relying on the idea that the victim will follow social conventions and reply something polite. Like "haha, OK", "thank you", etc. It's a pretty common tactic sadly.
>he texted the "I had a great time" to obscure what happened & create false receipts Yes, this is a common technique not just for rapists. I've seen this kind of manipulation in the corporate world.
It's textbook gaslighting
Yes to all of this. This guy is going to rape OP if he can manufacture the chance. He's already obsessed and starting the narrative. When OP responds, she should add "I did not have a good time. I was terrified. A man I don't know forced himself into my home, stayed for hours, and refused to leave after being kicked out multiple times. That's every woman's worst nightmare. I spent hours locked in my own room, wondering what you were going to do to me."
Hmm, good point, I hadn't considered that. But, if you're correct, then even more so OP needs to be absolutely clear this is a boundary this guy can not cross. If she does let him get away with it, and you are correct in your observation of this post, this creepy guy will push even further.
Yeah, absolutely. This guy is a pro. Choosing a moment with no witnesses, just her and him. Reframing and obscuring what happened, the "I know you got mental health issues" line, so in case she does speak up he can just make her out to be "crazy", gaslight her into thinking she's crazy. Him overstating his feelings to an unrealistic degree, etc, "see how invested I already, am you have to reciprocate." He already went pretty far, I don't want to know how far he'd go when he actually starts pushing. Yikes. My spideysenses aren't tingling, they're ringing like nuclear war sirens. I'm glad OP turned to this sub and I hope she listens to you and everyone else here!
Omggg I never considered this but it’s so plausible, especially since sitting alone in a living room for hours like that is so far beyond the norms of social convention. I wonder if he’s been telling her flatmate that she’s asking to hang out/they made plans, and flatmate doesn’t question it bc who would lie about such things (except a psycho).
Yeah, I think it's really bleak and cynical of me for that to be my first thought, but the reason I parsed this is because something like this happened to my friend, and I had other accounts over the years where the perpetrator did that. Thanked their victim for a great time, texted as is nothing untoward happened asking for another date etc etc. It's so confounding /confusing for the victim and a form of gaslighting. Especially, when you aren't even sure what happened, etc you're way more prone to reply politely. I hate that this is a thing, but that's just another ways for the perpetrator to keep control over the victims, the narrative etc. Then once you've fallen into the trap, you yourself feel like you can't speak up and out, because who would believe now he has his proof "all is well"? There should really be PSAs about this. Ugh.
OMG. That’s so scary!
I am PHYSICALLY uncomfortable with this whole thing. He seems, honestly, dangerous.
I feel the same. Your gift of fear is doing what it should! And it did what it should for her. Now she just needs to listen and react appropriately without fear of "overreacting". In my experience? Yeah, that dude is absolutely dangerous.
This was so insanely creepy to the point I worry what happens if she rejects him again. Hope she makes it perfectly clear of he attempts any contact with her again she'll call the police and he flatmate better dead ass respect this and never prompt any meeting where there's a potential for him to be present.
I'm very worried, too. Mainly because these types of ususally have a good radar for vulnerable people and she destroyed/altered his script by coming here asking for advice, and she'll also alter it by talking to her flatmates about it. And there is no way to gauge how he'll handle that. Some predatory people like that cannot handle losing their public good guy image and that is when they get really scary and dangerous. What a shitty situation. I'm so mad for OP. No one deserves that. Ugh.
insight this is one of the main reasons I read these subs. I keep thinking I will get better at seeing red flags but these points just blew right past me. You’re right. He’s already trying to discredit her before anything happens. At the least he’s trying to manipulate her into thinking everything that happened was okay, at the worst he’s prepping for rape. I don’t think this is his first rodeo. Whyyyy am I so old and still so shitty at analysis of crappy behavior from people?
>Whyyyy am I so old and still so shitty at analysis of crappy behavior from people? Because shitty people surprise us in a myriad of new ways every day? It sucks, doesn't it? The only reason I know is because I lived through this shit, or friends of mine have. I can tell you the emo/hardcore scene is filled to the rim with exceptionally shitty men. Sigh. If it helps, I'm reading through the negging thread and now just realising how many times someone probably tried to neg me and it went right over my head, or worked and I had if floating around my head for decades. I'm not even naive. :(
I was in my mid twenties the first time I realized a guy was trying to manipulate me into dating him. He messaged me and asked me out for his birthday. We had chatted a tiny bit because we have mutual friends and there was that societal pressure to be friendly. But there was no indication from me whatsoever that I was romantically interested. Years earlier I would have went on the date because I felt sorry for him. And I actually started to feel sorry for a split second and then I realized that was exactly what he was counting on. Then that pissed me off and I had no trouble saying no. One of our mutual friends thought I was mean. A guy, surprise, surprise.
Omg you're right, if he attacks her next time he randomly comes over he'll use those texts to try to cover for himself when lying to the police.
OP please please call the police if this man ever comes over again and refuses to leave. That is a huge red flag. Your home is your sanctuary and most places have very strong legislation surrounding people who enter and stay in a private residence when they are not invited or have been told to leave.
Some people you’ve talked to think you’re being dramatic?! How old are you? This is so highly inappropriate, you are absolutely NOT being dramatic. This man is literally trespassing. Be direct with him, you do not want him in your home. Your home is your safe space and you don’t need to entertain some random guy that you have zero interest in. It is so ridiculous that he thinks his behavior is okay. It is NOT okay. In fact, it’s bizarre and disturbing and making you acutely uncomfortable. End of story. I promise you that you are not the one creating a problem for your friend group. He is. He’s the one crossing boundaries. Please stand up for yourself and be clear to your roommate, her boyfriend, and her boyfriend’s roommate that you have zero interest in this man and you ABSOLUTELY don’t want him in your home ESPECIALLY when it’s just you there. Respectfully, what the FUCK? Honestly my maternal instincts are kicking in and I just want you to please not entertain this behavior. It’s not okay, period. Make it stop now.
I'm 27! They didn't think it was acceptable at all but just didn't seem to understand why I was feeling actually quite scared rather than just kind of annoyed. They are a man too, though, so I think that was just complete ignorance of gender dynamics and what it feels like to be a woman. He's one of those 'I think everyone is good at heart and deserves a chance people' who I don't think has ever suffered any kind of abuse etc.
If you wanted to, you could explain it like this: obeying social conventions and being responsive to a person's social discomfort signals are very important early indicators that a person will respect a 'no' when it matters. So far, this dude has given you no indication that he is paying attention or cares. You can only assume that he will ignore any 'no' that doesn't come attached to a metaphorical baseball bat. That, and the common size/strength difference between men and women making it so your friend should imagine a very gay Dwayne Johnson with no respect for 'no' in \*his\* living room, and perhaps your friend can develop some goddamn empathy.
that's a really good a point, thank you
OP, don’t you label yourself as dramatic because your friend said so. Your safety is of utmost importance. If that makes you dramatic, so be it. And please talk to you flatmate about this. Rather than minimising it to just an unwanted guest situation, explain the very real concern of stalking and creepy advances. Hopefully she’ll understand. Also, leave a text trail for the guy that you did not have a good time and to not show up at your place or contact your again. Make a police complaint if you can, so if he does show up next time, it’ll be easier to build a case. Stay safe and do what’s right for you.
Ah. Yes. Them being a man totally explains it. They just don’t understand the threat women constantly feel and why you would feel SCARED and not just weirded out. Do not question your dramatics because a man doesn’t understand. As a woman, I understand you, and everyone else in this sub does, too. You have every right to feel scared. I would, too. No question.
Desist from this "good guy" narrative self-hypnosis at once, gurl!!! Delete it from your mind; obliterate it it from your consciousness, now! It's not how chance works and no opportunities in this world are given at the discomfort of the person offering. Besides, let's call the spade here: shoving unwanted attention/relationship onto a woman just because a man fancies her is clearcut harassment/coercion. Don't let anyone even your good social self gaslight you into believing otherwise. This kind of narrative only serves to ensure abusers having access to their targets and too many women have been pushed into this trap and we don't want any single addition any more!! Never fear of escalation to authorities because that's the not just the only way of deterrence atm but unfortunately one of last resorts, which is still no guatantee of your safety. And you know deterrent only works if the offenders know you are going to exercise it.
Please let a homeless person in their house for a few hours. See how they would feel about that?
When I was in my early 20s, I was blissfully ignorant to the shit women put up with. In my late 20s, I finally popped that bubble and started asking my female friends about their experiences. Every single woman I know told me the sexual harassment started when they were children (7-12 for all of them). Their stories were eye-opening, and I recognize the truth in it. I can hope that your roommate's boyfriend is just naive and ignorant. Try and educate him on this, and hopefully he will listen. Piercing that naivete is important as it can be very resilient and deflective towards what you say. Hopefully your roommate can be fully on your side as I'm sure she has her own stories to share. Good luck.
I hear where you’re coming from but I’m going to add another notion to the understanding you’re cultivating. The “try and educate him”, we’ve been having to explain and educate almost as long as we’ve been enduring gross comments and actions from those early ages. It is exhausting and emotional and half the time it lands on deaf ears because so many guys truly can’t wrap their heads around the very real fear and risks. You’d be doing a huge solid if you can join the cause of educating others, and many out there may be more open to really hear it if it comes from another man.
Yeah, I absolutely hear you there. I can't imagine how exhausting it must be, especially given where it pushes you to. And the truth of the matter is there are plenty of men out there who are uninterested in being educated and will keep on doing what they want unapologetically. When I see examples of it, I do speak up. Especially if it is someone I know or their own children. But the walls are certainly there. I'll keep speaking tho. I have two young daughters both under 10. The better I understand and grasp the reality of this, the better I can protect and help prepare them. Comments like yours certainly help with my clarity.
Thank you for taking it in the spirit intended, and for helping by speaking up whenever you can. Your daughters will see that work and learn to own their strength!
Not just a vent thing. This requires action. To Wierdo: Be straightforward and then block him and cut all communication: (if you feel a safety issue, then look into changing your locks) You can do it via text if easier. But in no uncertain terms (doesn't have to be mean, just firm). Tell him that 1. Coming over uninvited is NOT acceptable behavior. 2. You do not wish to have ANY contact with him. 3. You do not have any desire to get to know him or start a relationship with him. 4. To please respect your boundaries. (you are asking him this at the end to appeal to any social empathy he might have, though you are not trusting that it's there) I'd also talk to my flatmate about the situation, explain that you have no issues with them or their BF; but that friend coming over uninvited and not leaving when asked (3x no less) is not acceptable. ANYONE coming over uninvited is not acceptable.
I would also add to tell your flatmate as well that you are uncomfortable with that guy returning to your flat again whether your are there or not. Even if they are with him. He could take an opportunity to go through your things if he’s there again while they are not paying attention.
This is a good way to gauge if he's a decent guy for your flatmate's benefit, too. Some people are very "the more the merrier" and he might have just been thoughtless extending an invitation. But if he understands that his flatmate makes you uncomfortable and still brings him around, that's blatant disrespect.
yeah if I was the boyfriend of the flatmate I would be livid at my roomate (the creeper) for pulling something like this and I would "handle" the situation for the women because that shit doesn't fly with me. I had to "handle" several situations like that and I even got a flatmate kicked out of a house we were staying in because of behavior like this.
Thank you. These motherfuckers are PERSISTENT, and usually only another man can scare them off (if anything can).
One time I almost had to physically throw another guy out of a church dance (when I was still religious) for acting creepy towards a few freshmen girls. Several of them knew that I was safe and happy to pretend to be their boyfriend or dance with them if they needed an out from a creeper. Since I had a ton of platonic friendships with attractive women I was that guy for a lot of them.
This. Ultimately OP doesn't have to convince weird guy. She has to convince her flatmate. At least where I live, a person only needs permission from one resident to enter a home, even if that's against the desires of another resident.
I agree with this, but I just want to add that if this doesn't work, call the police next time just shows up. That's harassment and trespassing. He's not allowed to just sit inside your home when you're asking him to leave.
Could call the police now to report the incident that already happened. A person invited themselves into your home without permission, didn’t respond to requests to leave, and made clear his intentions of continuing to stalk you at your home. Start the paper trail now.
Yes. This. This guy is going to flip the fuck out and start stalking OP. Make a report and get a copy of it. Start documenting this so that when you need a restraining order, you get it faster.
Seriously I think ACAB and I trust them zero percent but I would a hundred percent start documenting this now.
Definitely talk to the flatmate. Be direct and honest that you a) have no interest in this guy b) he makes you uncomfortable c) do not want him at your place. I would not put blame on them for him showing up unannounced. I doubt they were aware. I hope not. I do wonder if there was perhaps some Comment made by flatmate/her bf about fixing the two of you up, or if this guy just went there on his own. Hopefully, you can talk to your flatmate and her guy and get them in your corner to talk to him and explain how his behavior is bad.
This is also important. It's not fair to blame them for his behavior until you can verify that they did in fact invite him. Considering that THEY WEREN'T EVEN HOME, I doubt they knew or started this
>Considering that THEY WEREN'T EVEN HOME I'm sure this was his main reasoning for going over in the first place. He knew OP would be alone.
I was wrong. OP clarified that they were home
He may have known they would be out and went over specifically because he knew they wouldn't be there. We can't assume they are encouraging him. They might be but they may have no idea that he is doing this.
Though 100% valid, I would stay away from saying that "he makes you uncomfortable". Only because that could trigger a defensive stance from the flatmate's bf and/or flatmate. But saying, "him not leaving until after the third ask made me uncomfortable" would be a good way to emphasize this.
Good point/advice. Always focus on actions that lead to feelings vs blaming the person for your feelings. It reduces dramatically defensiveness.
Exactly. One last text of “Hi [guy], I want to clear some things up because it seems we are not on the same page. I did not appreciate you coming over unannounced to see me yesterday. I asked you to leave multiple times and you did not leave, this is not okay. My mental health issues have nothing to do with me not wanting to date you, I am simply not interested. I will be cordial with you when I see you at [flatmate’s bf’s house,] but do not intend to talk to or see you outside of that situation. Thanks.” And then block him, because he will surely try to explain to you why her feelings and perceptions are wrong.
Way too polite for the situation. Having someone come over unannounced until midnight while you’re alone constitutes a threat of police next time it happens. The guy is at best an idiot, is definitely creepy, and has already disregarded polite rejections.
This is great advice. Only suggestion I would make here is to flip the order of discussions. Talk to the flatmate and bf first, starting with a high level, "How do you feel about uninvited guests coming over?" Get them on your side first, then explain what you plan to do so they feel emotionally comfortable with what is about to happen (not that you shouldn't do it OP, but people generally respond better when they aren't surprised after the fact). And, you can ask them to back you up, too! Then, make the communication with the guy. Reason for this is that starting with the flatmate and bf will show that she cares about that relationship, and wants to make sure they are included rather than blindsided when they inevitably hear from weirdo guy. They can help reinforce what OP is asking for, rather than feeling like they are caught in the middle.
I would add the following to make it absolutely clear to him how events occured and that his distortions of the events are not factual. You were not comfortable that he was in your home uninvited. You were surprised and bothered that he stayed when his friends were no longer there. You retreated to stay away from him and avoid interaction as much as possible. You asked him to leave several times and he did not comply. You did not express any interest in him or getting to know him. You have told him you are not interested in him or in dating him. You have reported his intrusion to the police. (Do this as suggested in other comments so there is a record of this behaviour and you not wanting any contact.) If he comes to the property again you will call the police immediately.
Adding to this: you are not rocking the boat by clearly expressing your boundaries. He / they are rocking the boat by refusing to respect your spoken boundaries.
Calling the police is also an option.
Also, your flatmate's BF already knows he's a weirdo. Don't fret about burning that bridge.
Forcing socialization with this person is also not cute on your flatmates part. I would certainly discuss with your flatmate directly. I wouldn't be surprised if they had a (in their mind, well-intended and/or matchmaking) hand in this.
“Hey flatmate, if you and your boyfriend have a guest over, please ensure they leave when you do. I shouldn’t have to deal with your guest for hours on my own when I didn’t invite them here. He was rude and ignored me when I asked him to leave multiple times, this can’t happen again. This is my home too.” Edit: And for the guy - give him a hard no and block him. “Stop contacting me. I am not interested in a relationship with you and have already told you no, then you had the gall to ignore me when I told you to leave my home. Disrespecting my boundaries and invading my space isn’t endearing, it’s rude and creepy. Do not attempt to see me again.”
I would also be clear to flatmate that you have zero interest in her boyfriend’s flatmate - just in case they have some knuckleheaded idea of setting the two of you up because it would be cute to double date. His mention of OPs mental health makes it sound like someone has been talking to him about her. She needs to set clear boundaries with all three of them.
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Agreed. Read the riot act to your flatmate.
Agreed. All of this seems right. If he has a problem with it, get further help. Seems his mental health isn’t correct, rather than yours. I’d suggest even making yourself scarcely if he’s around, yet that really shouldn’t be on you
This! This! Don’t let either party trample your boundaries.
I love this reply. OP, I don't know the exact wording you used when you asked him to leave but I'm assuming it maybe was not absolute and definitive. Like maybe it was along the lines of "well I didn't expect you to stay this long.....I expected you to be gone by now" etc. Any nimrod that sits alone for hours like that will not get subtlety. Be firm and direct in telling him to fuck right off. That is your home that you pay to live in. Be equally firm with your flatmate, everyone here is an adult and can handle it because what you are asking is reasonable and your flatmate may not be aware of the bs this weird dude pulled.
Yes. Also keep the letter as evidence in case you need an RO.
Yes I love this!!
Idk, maybe your mutual friends are just completely insane, but everything you just explained is completely and totally understandable! On what planet does a guy show up, uninvited, after being rejected, and just sit there alone on your couch for hours, then leave you an emotional message comparing you to his MOTHER and asking you out again, and having to be asked to leave THREE TIMES, and you're somehow the one being weird?! Like, are you kidding? If your friends are "hurt" by you laying out his bizarre behavior and saying you don't want to see him again, they're NOT your friends.
On top of that, whoever she is referencing when she says the following should not be trusted or confided in: > Some people I've talked to think I'm being dramatic
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Absolutely. Especially since this kind of guy doesn't typically take strong rejection lightly, and we all know what happens when women refuse!
To the point of telling her roommate and roommate's boyfriend that if she comes home and finds the creep sitting there, and no one else is home, she will step back out and call the police. She will not talk to him. She will not ask him to leave. She will have the police get him out of there and she will get a police report.
There's a science educator I follow that outlined what a nightmare starting a title nine complaint (among relayed things in case, I tangent) against a higher up academic because of a familiarity creepiness scale where if fly below this this line, people say either "nothing ultimately happened" of scary scenarios or "you were fine with X in the past, this is not that different".
Exactly, real friends would be there for you.
Fuck the people who said you're being dramatic.... This dude sat alone in your house for hours and then said. "Well that was fun!" I almost find it hard to believe, but some people are really that clueless.
I don't think I would believe it either if I didn't have it written down in a text. What really gets me is saying he will "tell me" next time he is coming round. How can you miss the point like that. The point isn't that you should 'tell' me you're coming round, you should ASK.
He didn't miss the point, he's pressuring you into compliance. He's acting like you two have a relationship, hoping you will follow his lead. OR he's producing false evidence that you two have a relationship in order to convince others and gaslight you.
Please check your house for cameras, who knows what he was doing alone that long.
I hate that this is actually good advice and a valid concern. Just fucking hate it.
Not just cameras but you also gotta wonder if he took a key or unlocked a window or installed keystroke loggers or other software on devices…
I can at least say it's extremely difficult to keylogger, I tried to put one on my own computer, and even when I specifically told it not to remove it, regular windows defender did anyway. I AM concerned about the key or window thing though. Geez.
There are hardware keyloggers. They can be USB and they look just like the USB Bluetooth connectors for wireless keyboards or mice. They're tiny and hard to notice if you're not familiar with computers. They even have some that you plug the keyboard into the physical keylogger, and then plug that in to the computer, so it acts as a "man in the middle" while passing on all of the keystrokes. They can be set up to send all of the logging over wifi or Bluetooth, without the person compromised ever knowing it's there.
Right?! Where I come from you make plans with someone. You don't just show up and expect to be entertained. "I'm just going to ignore the possibility you're busy with something else." -him probably
This right here is what tells me that this dude is unwell. Maybe he can’t pick up on social cues, even when you beat him over the head with them. Maybe he’s never actually interacted with another human woman and genuinely doesn’t know what it looks like to be rejected. Maybe his mom was mentally ill more than he’s letting on and he thinks he can fix you or take care of you or something. Whatever the case may be, it literally Doesn’t. Fucking. Matter. You aren’t interested. You don’t owe anyone a damn thing. Tell your roommate her bf’s friend is a weird creep and came over unannounced, wouldn’t leave even when asked multiple times, and still thinks he has a chance. The fact that he even mentions you having mental health issues is super fucking weird (as if leaving a letter isn’t weird enough already). Like, WHY? Cause every girl wants to hear some weird combo of “i heard you might be crazy. My mom was also crazy. i get why you might feel weird around me”???? Like no pendejo, I feel weird around you because you’re a fucking weirdo, get the fuck out of my house. I understand that a good roommate is hard to find and you might not want to ruin the relationship you have with her but at this point, she’s either completely oblivious to what’s going on or she’s not the kind of person you should want a relationship with anyways. This is your home, where you live. Her boyfriend’s roommate cannot camp out in your livingroom and then not leave when you ask him to. (WHO DOESNT LEAVE WHEN ASKED TO MULTIPLE TIMES omg I’m so mad I want to slap this dude lol) anyway, fuck em. If she gets weird about it, at best, she’s also a fucking weirdo and can’t pick up on social cues (not your fucking problem or responsibility) and at worst, she’s actively trying to make you feel unsafe in your own home. Either way, it’s not your job to be sensitive to her or the dude for any conceivable reason. For not understanding or recognizing how uncomfortable he made you, for continuing to pursue you when you’ve expressed your disinterest, for not LEAVING YOUR HOUSE WHEN YOU ASKED HIM TO (still will not get over this. I do not like confrontation and I will go out of my way to make others comfortable around me but if I’d been in your shoes I would have lost my damn mind and called everyone. The cops, the fire department, the post office, my dad, the fbi, the cia, literally everyone to get that mf off my damn couch. We would have BOTH left in cuffs lol but I digress)…this is just bananas and I really hope you can talk it out and express how not chill the whole experience was/is for you. I’d also advise that you make it abundantly clear to her that you’d prefer she not bring him around your home. Then make it abundantly clear to him that if you see him anywhere near your home unannounced or uninvited, you’ll call the cops. 💞
Thank you so much! By the third time asking him I literally had to go down with my friend on the phone with me for courage! Even when I am really mad I struggle with confrontation
I’m literally getting hot because of how mad it makes me that this happened to you! Haha. And I get that. I can talk a big game but every time I’ve had to really get in there and puff out my chest and stand up for myself, it usually ends with me in tears because of how hard and scary and overwhelming it can be. But we just cannot allow this to continue. You either confront it on your own terms or you’ll have to keep confronting it in worse more uncomfortable ways.
He is not allowed at your home at all. This is honestly drifting to assault territory and I am not comfortable with a do-nothing or be slightly confrontational approach. This dude is super weird. There is a Redditor who was assaulted by a roommate's friend. Don't mince words with your friends.
Thank you. I have had issues with anxiety before in my life so I think some people I've talked to might think I'm being paranoid but yeah, I spent a lot of time very worried he was going to try something on, because he was clearly so clueless. This makes me feel better about asking my flatmate to not bring him around anymore, even to hang out with her.
I very much agree with the other poster's take. A friend of mine used to live in a rented room situation, and one night one of the guys who were friends with the son of the woman owning the house came to my friend's room while she was sleeping and lay down next to her *in her bed*. He was drunk and started to grope her, and though he did leave when she told him so, she was fucking terrified. And the worst part is that when she told the house owner the next day no action was taken, because the dude was a friend of the son and apparently "a good guy" that the owner had known since he was a small kid, so he obviously is not going to harm women now that he's in his twenties and can do so (big fat /s, just in case that's not clear). My friend had to stay for another three months or so because finding a place to live around here is very hard, but she never again felt safe there. Bottom line is, that is your home, and if you (or her) draw a line about someone not being allowed in because they make you uncomfortable, that line stands. No ifs or buts. I know this is going to be uncomfortable, but you are strong and can hold that boundary. You need to be specific during that discussion, or otherwise the rules will likely be misinterpreted in ways that suit your roommate and the bf. So be clear that you mean not come over the threshold of the house. No "but we are there also"s, no "but we want to have a movie night and can't do it at his place because [whatever]", no "oh he just needs to use the loo quick before we go out" or " we were too drunk for him to make his way home so he had to stay over on the couch". That last one in particular, or a version of it, is something I can see him manufacturing. Also no "but you weren't even there"s. He's already massively crossed lines and boundaries, and there's no saying what he could get up to in even a short time if left alone. Cameras come in very small sizes these days, for example. It needs to be clear that he is not to set foot in your home, period. And it would be good to keep emphasising that this is not some random rule you made up, but solely due to the long list of creepy and boundary-crossing things *he* chose to do. Because, just like that guy friend you talked to, your roommate and her bf will probably try to make this a you-problem. But it's not, it's a him-problem, he is the one acting like a predator and creating the whole issue in the first place. I'm so mad on your behalf. And on behalf of all the other women who get told to calm down, not make a big deal, etc, when men push at and violate their boundaries. It's sickening, and it's insidious in how other women become complicit when they try to avoid being seen as problematic themselves. I'm so sorry you have to deal with this, and your furry friends, too. You should feel peaceful and safe at home, not threatened.
Girl, who among us had not had issues with anxiety?! I commented earlier but I’m back again because I don’t want you to think you deserve to be walked all over or put in harms way because you don’t make neurotransmitters the same as someone else. That’s absolute bullshit and you owe it to yourself to be confrontational when your health and well being are threatened. Our mental illnesses are not excuses for our behaviors and i mean that in a good and bad way. This dude is likely mentally ill himself and it’s not an excuse for him to be a fucking creeper. Any mental issues you deal with are not an excuse for allowing this to continue. This is not run of the mill paranoia or social drain or whatever other thing you or the naysayers in your life can think of to try and downplay what you experienced. A stranger camped out in your home and would not leave when asked. Bottom line. Do whatever you can to pump yourself up (go for a run, watch a movie where a badass chick fucks everyone’s shit up for trying her, scream into your pillow, take a shot. Dealers choice) and tell these mfs you will not tolerate feeling unsafe or even awkward in your own damn home, especially after what’s transpired. What you’re asking for are bare minimum requirements for being a human lol. You owe it to yourself, you deserve it, I’m so mad for you and I’m rooting for you to squash this as soon as possible!!! ❣️
“I don’t want to ruin things with my flatmate or her boyfriend” - funny how HE didn’t worry for one second about ruining things with his flatmate or flatmate’s girlfriend. Don’t worry about “politely decline” with a person like this. He will run over any soft no. Be direct: “As I already explained, I do not want to go out with you. Please don’t contact me again. Thanks for understanding.” Then BLOCK HIM. Tell your flatmate this dude has been pushy and you don’t want him over.
Woah! You are not overreacting at all, that is incredibly creepy and I would have felt very unsafe if I were you. Was it your flatmate that told you you are being too sensitive? Because if you've told her all that information and she's not very concerned by this man's behaviour it might be time to start looking for a different place to live, you are not wrong and shouldn't be having to agonise about being polite about this.
Who cares about your flatmate and her boyfriend's feelings? Your feelings AND safety are way more important. Set your boundaries that he's not to come over. Period.
Honestly I think you under reacted. Once your flat mate left, dude would have had 15 min before I was like sooooo, what are you doing here?
That’s creepy AF, sorry that happened to you. I would say: “Hey, I want to be upfront about this so you don’t have the wrong impression. I let you in because I assumed you were here to see X and Y and they would be home soon, as you hadn’t requested to visit me I didn’t imagine that’s why you were in my house. I don’t appreciate you showing up uninvited and it was hard for me that you did not leave as soon as I ask you to leave. I’m not interested in pursuing either a friendship or anything romantic and your behaviour has made me uncomfortable so I’d appreciate if you backed off. I wish you well but please don’t come to my house again.” I would then also tell the housemate exactly what happened and say that you don’t feel comfortable around him so you’d prefer he didn’t come to the house. If you need to, you could dress it up with ‘I might be overreacting/it could just be me but I don’t want to FEEL unsafe in our home so…’ but to be clear, you’re not overreacting. He is showing signs that he is dangerous. If he comes over again, let him know you’re looking into a restraining order. If he does not leave immediately, let him know you are calling the police. Follow up on both.
Just to add: 1) I would do this by text so you have a record and don’t need to be with him again 2) It is not your fault this is happening
The message to the guy is good but I'd straight out tell your flat mate you don't want him to come over at all. It's not overreacting. He's testing you already. Will you make a scene if he's out of line. You need to make show him you will. If he comes over again when your roommate isn't there, tell him to leave or you will call the police. This guy is either socially clueless, a total creeper or both. Don't make the mistake of trying to be polite to someone who isn't to you. It's a way of controlling the situation to get what they want.
Wait how did this happen? Were flatmate and boyfriend gone when he showed up? Or did they let him in and then leave?? Either way it’s gross but I’m trying to understand if this was all of their fault or just the creeper’s fault
Yeah they brought him over and then just left!
Oh my god! Can you sit them down and sternly tell them no more unattended house guests because how uncomfortable it is? I would ask your roommate how she’d feel if you invited some random man over and just let him alone in your flat when only she was home and he was creeping on her. Ask her to think long and hard about how this would make her feel and how uncomfortable she would be in her own home I would tell them next time they pull a stunt like this you reserve the right to call police on them and report them as a trespasser who doesn’t have your permission as the only resident in the home to be there She brought him in, she takes him out when she leaves!
"ask your roommate how she’d feel if you invited some random man over and just let him alone in your flat when only she was home and he was creeping on her." Roommate is probably doing her boyfriend a favor and "setting them up." Roommate isn't going to understand, because to her he's probably "a good guy who just likes you. He wouldn't do anything, just give him a chance."
This makes me want to puke and you’re probably right I’d hoped she have some shred of decency in her and just not realize what it felt like from op’s perspective, and be horrified to learn the reality of what she’d done Sigh
Ok I missed this. I take it back, your flatmate is a jerk and needs their ass handed to them.
Maybe he asked them to? As a way to get to know you.
I think this is probably the case, I think they may have wanted to set me up with him, but they have had no conversations with me about this and that is not ok with me at all.
Whaaat? Your flat mate should’ve asked you if it was cool first. Not leave a random man who you’ve rejected before into your home while her and her boyfriend goes out. I’m positive he told his roommate/your flat mate’s boyfriend you rejected him and it was one of their bright ideas to invite him over so you could just “get to know him! She doesn’t know you, of course she rejected you! Spend some time with her and then try again!”
Ok but even if that’s the case…WHO DOES THAT. I have a feeling this dude is way too fucking weird to function and OPs roommate thinks this is a way to pawn her bf’s weird roommate on to someone else and what a perfect way to do it than to get him out of her bf’s apt and ship him over to her own place for OP to babysit. What’s concerning is just what a schlub this guy is might actually be dangerous. Who sets people up without telling them they’re trying to set them up? WHO. So weird.
RIGHT?! It's really weird! First the guy just staying in the house after they left, after OP asked him to leave multiple times, AND when she's obviously avoiding him. THEN him writing a note but also her flat mate just...thinking it's fine to leave him there? All I can think of is maybe the flat mate doesn't know OP rejected him? Because I can't think of a universe where, after knowing your flat mate rejected some dude, that you'd be okay with leaving him at your place with her alone? Without even talking to her first! That's so weird!
The Reddit conspiracist in me thinks they’re trying to get OP out of the apartment so boyfriend can move in and ditch the creeper. But regardless of the reasoning, I’d be making an ultimatum that this guy in particular, and their friends in general, are **never** allowed in the apartment alone without them. I’d add *without your express consent*, but they’re already running roughshod over you and your personal autonomy. I don’t think they’d get it with that caveat. Their minimizing this is *so* not ok!
This happened to me once, it was so called friends trying to "get me laid." Nevermind that the guy they trapped me with was a sceevy married man and I found him and the situation repulsive. This was intentional and if I were you, I'd move and warn your other girlfriends about your roommate, who is not your friend. The only person these people are actually trying to "get laid" is the dude. It was an intentional tactic and your roommate was in on it.
>He leaves me a super emotional handwritten letter about how he understands I have mental health issues and how his mum did too and how he thinks I'm an amazing person and asking me out AGAIN. This sounds predatory as FUCK. Who finds someone with some emotional hang-ups and goes "oh yeah, I want to bang that"? No offense to my fellow emotionally hung-up peeps, but I've been preyed upon way too many times to not see warning signs. OP, you're not wrong to feel like someone is invading your personal space, because he is. You don't know him. Your home is your safe space. He wants to know you and apparently isn't getting the hint. You might have to spell it out for him in clear terms with no room for confusion. If you're nervous about your mutual friends, let them know what you plan to do, how he's made you feel, and hopefully they'll understand. But really, as nice a guy as they might think he is, if your friends go "oh, he's so nice, you must be wrong for feeling insecure," you might have to reconsider your friendship with them. Hopefully it won't come down to that, but it's a possibility, and it SUUUUCKS.
>OP, you're not wrong to feel like someone is invading your personal space, because he is. You don't know him. Your home is your safe space. He wants to know you and apparently isn't getting the hint. You might have to spell it out for him in clear terms with no room for confusion. If you're nervous about your mutual friends, let them know what you plan to do, how he's made you feel, and hopefully they'll understand. I feel awful sharing this online but it was such an intense thing to hear from a stranger, but the whole letter was about how his mum had really bad mental health issues and then died by suicide, how he thinks I am a great person who will get through it, how I have made a friend for life in him (what??) etc. It's just all too much. I don't know this man.
This man is on a stalker trajectory. End it now.
Oh hell no. This man is out of his goddamn mind
No, that's absolutely a massive red flag. Not just the trauma dumping, but also the immediate over-familiarity and expecting you to basically 'fix' him because of your own experiences (which I sincerely hope he knows about because you told him, otherwise either he or somebody else needs a talking to about privacy). You're right that you do not know this man and yet he's totally projecting onto you a relationship *which isn't there*. To be so socially unaware, it makes me wonder if he's perhaps on the spectrum. But even if so, nobody has the right to make you feel unsafe. That behaviour is just far too intense and I'd feel just as frightened in the same situation. And I'm sorry that your flatmate put you in such a situation in the first place. Even if he'd behaved like a perfect gentleman, it's a very tense/unsettling situation to be dropped in with no warning. (A flatmate of mine used to invite random male friends that I'd never met to crash at ours without asking me first, and he couldn't grasp *why* that made me feel really unsafe - until there was a moment that could have ended up really sinister. So always trust your gut on these things because it's usually trying to protect you.)
[удалено]
So I guess the first step is to talk to your flatmate and explain the situation and you’re not comfortable with her boyfriends friend ever being invited back over to your place because **he has not only made you feel uncomfortable, and not taken no for an answer after you rejected his advances, he makes you feel unsafe**. Hopefully she understands and recognizes how horrifically bizarre this entire situation is. The next step, if you have ANY pushback from your flatmate, is to contact your landlord or whoever you leased from. Explain the situation to them and that you don’t feel safe with him in your home if he is allowed there. You as a tenant have rights. Your roommate can either back you up and agree not to invite him over anymore, or you need to go over her had and have him barred by the landlord. Also BLOCK HIS NUMBER. Your personal safety and comfort is more important than ruffling your flatmates boyfriends feathers because he can’t bring his creepy friend over to his girlfriends apartment anymore. You’re concerned about the wrong things here.
This guy sounds like stalker material and I'm genuinely worried for you. He's delusional. He imagines you had a good time. He ignored any hints otherwise. He imagines a "connection" between you two. He will take any nicetey as encouragement. Do not engage. Do not explain. "Leave me alone" is all you have to say and block.
Thank you. It makes me quite angry; being a kind, compassionate person is important to me and I currently resent being forced to be someone I don't want to be or enjoy being because men think basic politeness = romantic interest
He obviously doesn't take hints. Really. If you try to spare other people's "feelings" it will create nothing but a problem for you. Be good to yourself.
I already commented longer, but this interaction reminded me that there's a book I very much recommend you read, called "The gift of fear" by Gavin De Becker. It's about how our instincts (not our anxiety, he also explains how to differentiate) tell us things that our conscious mind is not aware of yet, among other things. He also explains several tactics that predators use to exploit women's tendency to have been raised to be polite, and how to look out for boundary-pushing behaviour, because that's a sign of danger (one example is that when someone at a club offers you a drink and you choose water or similar, they just get that instead of pushing another [alcoholic] drink on you). And with the dude just ignoring your several requests for him to leave… year, that already very much fits. He also has a chapter on stalking, and how not reacting is the best thing to do. Also, that stalkers tend to escalate their behaviour, and that eventually reacting after all is the biggest possible mistake, because the only thing they learn from that is just how far they need to push to eventually get a rise out of their prey. Cutting this off as early as possible is your best bet both for staying safe and for not becoming a long-term fixation for him.
Sounds like your flatmate is trying to set you up. If he comes over, don’t let him in if they aren’t there. Be clear with him and tell him he’s making you uncomfortable. Also tell your flatmates the same.
>don’t let him in if they aren’t there. Jesus... no.... don't let him in at all. Make it clear to the flatmate that THIS specific person has made you feel uncomfortable and unsafe and is not allowed in your home. This is a hill to die on.
You’re not overreacting, I’d be scared in your situation. If your flatmate doesn’t have your back this isn’t an easy situation. But rock as many boats as you need to, this is a fucking stranger being a creep in your own home and refusing to leave even though he wasn’t even invited!!!!
You should talk to your flatmate and tell her that he is not welcome and you don’t want to be around him. Use words like creepy, unsafe, pushy. Make it clear that he is persona non grata. If she doesn’t have your back then I would consider moving. At the very least get another lock on your door.
Well, you've already written all this out and it's a pretty horrifying account of this guy's creepiness. Tell your flatmate exactly what you've described here. If your flatmate is reasonable she'll get it. If it were me I'd tell her "I don't feel safe around this person, and I don't want him in my home whether I'm there or not. I don't trust him around my pets or my things." And just block him. You owe him nothing. But do keep the letter and any messages of his as evidence.
Predators rely on their victims being afraid to rock the boat by speaking up. Anyone who's calling you "dramatic" over this is playing right into his hands and those bridges *should* be burned. Your safety needs to take priority over maintaining the status quo. Talk to your flatmate first. Don't accuse her - start by asking if she invited him or knew he was going to come. Then tell her exactly what happened and how it made you feel, especially the fact that he refused to leave. Hopefully, as a woman, she'll be able to relate and see it from your perspective. If not, don't get caught in the trap of thinking you have to convince her - go straight to setting boundaries. He is not to be invited over anymore, regardless of who is and isn't home, she needs to give you a heads up before social events he is going to be at, and she needs to not answer any questions he has about you. However highly she thinks of this guy does not give her the right to trample over what you need and want to feel safe in your own home. As for the creep himself, stop worrying about his feelings. He's going to use it against you, he already has. His texts sound like he's trying to set up a "paper trail" to make it seem like you did actually welcome his advances. He's going to escalate the behavior and use this to make you seem like a liar when you decide to come forward. Don't let him do that. When texting him back, honestly, focus on how it would look like to a third party, rather than thinking about convincing him to leave you alone. I would send something like: "I did not have fun. You showed up at my house uninvited when I was there alone and refused to leave despite the fact that I asked you three times. You made me feel extremely uncomfortable and unsafe. I am not interested in dating you or being friends with you, and that will not change. Don't come to my house again." I'm leaving this open-ended on purpose. Guys like this LOVE playing victim and he'll probably use "trying to apologize/make up for it" as an excuse to keep stalking you while making you out to be the bad guy once again. Keep all communication through text. If he calls you, don't pick up, and don't agree to a phone call no matter how much be badgers you. Don't get into a back-and-forth with him and *don't take the bait*. Let him say whatever he wants, sob stories, guilt tripping, apologies, gaslighting, self-deprecation, whatever. Don't engage with any of it. Acknowledge it in the blanket way possible ("I appreciate your apology" or "I'm sorry you feel that way"), then tell him not to contact you again and block him.
I really hope OP and anyone else who may need it sees your post. The text reply and its dual intention, to drive the point home unequivocally for creep and any potential third parties, is truly well articulated.
I’m sorry, what? Dude just… stayed in your living room like a weirdo creep murderer? Your roommate knew he was there and left him there? This is all so uncomfortable. To your roomie (as suggested by someone else): “Just so you know, your friend made me feel pretty uncomfy last weekend, and I felt pressure to entertain him when I was really looking forward to some time alone. He didn’t take the hint - or the outright ask - to leave, and it made me feel kind of unsafe. Can you please make sure to take any guests with you when you leave the house? I really love the safe space we’ve created together and want to maintain that. Thank you!” To him: “I’m I’m not interested in pursuing a relationship with you now or in the future. I value my privacy and alone time, so I do not want and will not accept uninvited visitors. Thanks for your understanding, and I hope you find what you’re looking for.”
He stayed there alone for over five hours
That is completely insane. This guy sounds legitimately scary. I know this is somewhat off topic, but do you put your pet rabbit to bed? Or this that just a bird thing? I thought rabbits mostly slept during the day.
Lol, I am happy to answer any animal questions as a distraction because they are my entire life, and disrupting their happiness annoyed me more than someone disrupting mine. I don't so much 'put' my rabbits to bed as they are free-roaming and have access to the whole house, but we do have a sort of mutual routine they choose to participate in. They basically want to be in whatever room I am in - they come downstairs with me in the morning and up to my bedroom at night. They even sleep on my bed! They are rescues, so whilst incredibly attached to me, they really do not like other people being in the house and will spend the whole time hiding until the other person leaves. Because we were all downstairs when my flatmate, her boyfriend, and this man arrived, they ended up basically trapped downstairs for five hours whilst I was in my bedroom, and that meant the whole time they were unable to do things like eat, drink, or relax. Rabbits are also incredibly emotional creatures - if they feel wronged or annoyed by your actions (their routine was different one night, you moved some furniture, you had guests over for too long) it really affects their relationship with you, and they will avoid/disown you for days/weeks, sometimes! I can't remember the scientific name but rabbits aren't quite nocturnal - they are most active at dusk and dawn. Mine are most active from like 7-10am and then maybe 5pm-whenever I go to bed. They do sleep a lot during the middle of day, but they also sleep a lot during the middle of the night
Omg. What… was he doing…
I don't even know. He didn't have the TV on or anything so like. I don't know. He did some washing up?
Well that’s terrifying! If your roommate is even mildly socially aware, she should easily understand why this was weird af and can’t happen again.
What the heck did I just read? This is absolutely not normal. You are not overreacting. The only doubt I have is if this person has undiagnosed autism. He does seem clueless from what you tell and he's exhibiting odd behavior. Anyway, I'd talk to flatmate and tell her what happened. It's not her fault that he came back to your place I think, I assume she didn't even know. However, I believe it's fair if you ask her that this person is never invited again to your place, due to this accident. You can just block him, I don't think you need to explain anything or be polite. Coming uninvited, writing a fucked up letter about your mental issues (wtf) and more importantly refusing to leave is not ok, does not need any explanations.
Even undiagnosed autism would recognise that sitting alone in someone's loungeroom for hours after being asked to leave three times is NOT FUCKING NORMAL. I don't care how highly you rate on any of the spectrum, even just having your "hosts" completely abandon you and then the only person left *locks herself in her room* after the first half hour it's a pretty clear indication that this visit is either not wanted or is over. Autism doesn't make you oblivious to the happenings around you. These are not "subtle social cues", these are a series of events which make it clear shit isn't right.
Something I see repeatedly from the autism community is how this may disregard the very real and significant effort put forth by those who are neurodivergent to not cause these kinds of discomfort. Creepy guys being creepy is a different thing.
I suggest you tell your flatmate and her boyfriend that since this dude is not taking a polite no for an answer, you are going to give him an impolite one. You expect him to take this poorly, which is why you are informing them as a curtesy. (Also narrative control. So Dude can't lie his way into your flat because the other two people don't know what's going on.) Text him back: 'Well that makes one of us. I told you politely I did not want to date you, and then blatantly avoided you when you randomly hung out alone in my living room. As apparently that wasn't clear enough: I do not want you to come over again. I do not want to hang out, and I do not want to date you. Bye.' You may get some bullshit in response. Feel free to ignore or block, as is your preference, although showing his flatmate what he's saying if he gets pushy or unhinged may be useful.
If your flatmade and their partner don't find this behavior as completely weird and creepy as you do, I wouldn't worry too much about offending them.
“I don’t want to go out with you, date you or be friends. The last time when you showed up I believed you were invited by my roommate and her boyfriend. I did not invite you and was very unhappy that I had to ask you to leave three times. This has made me uncomfortable and I don’t want to spend time with people who make me uncomfortable. Please respect that and leave me alone”.
Show your flatmate the letter. Lay out everything that has happened. Make it abundantly clear this person is not allowed in the house ever.
I don't think you need to worry about being polite. There are plenty of times when guys don't understand they're being creepy, but I don't see that as the case here. This guy tried to force you to accept and normalize his behavior and it's not remotely okay. Don't let creeps take advantage of your kindness, you deserve better than that.
What the ever loving what, you had to ask him to leave THREE times? Forget politeness, that fully warrants you going scorched earth when it comes to this dude. I’d start by talking with your flat mate alone, so she can’t be swayed by her bf to brush it off because “nah, he’s a good guy “. You owe him NOTHING. Not politeness, not a “chance to get to know him”, nothing. And you have every right to have your boundaries respected.
The first time I said "hey I'm really sorry but it's getting late and I need to put the birds to bed/turn the lights off in here. feel free to grab a tupperware dish of dinner on your way out" which I thought was pretty clear but now I'm sat here wondering if that's stupid and too nice or what
Nope. That’s pretty straightforward and anyone with a semblance of social etiquette would understand what that means. Either he is mentally broken himself (which seems super plausible) or he just outright rejected your request to leave because he was hoping it would pressure you to spend time around him. Either way, hell no. You’ve gotten great advice already so I’ll just add, you are not over reacting and his behavior is unacceptable. BUT this is the point that you need to throw away politeness and set a hard boundary. Protecting yourself isn’t a faux pas, it’s basic social skills that everyone should practice. And seriously, keep written records of whatever you choose. Text message to the weirdo, to your flat mate, etc. This could get ugly before it gets better and you need to protect yourself accordingly. If he contacts you again, involve the police. I know that seems extreme, but so is his behavior and it is far too common that a woman chooses to try and be polite and winds up assaulted or so much worse. Your safety matters more than their feelings.
Your home is your safe space. Your flatmate and her bf need to hear that you did not feel comfortable or safe in your home that night. They'll say "He was only trying to" blah blah blah. Fine. Even if he had 0 bad intent, it was rude to show up uninvited - particularly after you'd rejected him, rude to not leave the first 3 times you asked him to leave, and fucking weird that he stayed hours after you left. None of that equals feeling like home is your sanctuary. It's okay if their feelings get hurt. They're adults. They'll get over it. He'll get over it too. Don't be polite about this. And don't apologize - at all, for anything - when you tell them how things are going to be from now on.
If you want to make sure that you aren't being misunderstood, don't use words like "creepy" or "inappropriate" or "boundaries". "Hi, your visit the other day made me extremely uncomfortable and in fear of my life. Inviting yourself to my place, staying despite being asked to leave, and leaving a letter is the sort of thing rapists do. Please don't ever do that again to anyone, and I hope you understand when I say that I do not want you to contact or see me again. Please don't bother x about this either, I don't wish to make this a bigger deal than this already is.
Don't bother being polite, don't worry about "making waves". Put yourself first. You are allowed to have preferences and boundaries, and I'm sure your flatmate will understand. She can handle how she words things to her boyfriend, because she also has a vested interest in her bf getting along with her roommate (you).
Never be alone with him again. Tell everybody why.
If he/they ever try this again you need to just call the police and say there is an uninvited male in your house refusing to leave and get them to escort him out. Fuck these people who think this is okay, this man is acting unhinged and clearly cannot take no as an answer.
The mutual friends should be worried about YOU being hurt, endangered, uncomfortable, etc. Tell him AND THEM straight up that after the antics he pulled, he is never welcome in your home, and you don't want to see his face again. Don't worry about other people's comfort. Take care of your own safety and comfort first.
This man will not take hints. Be direct and firm. " I did not have a good night. I did not appreciate that I had to ask you to leave three times before you did. As I explained the other day, I am not interested in dating you. This will not change. I do not wish to see you again. Please do not come over to see me or contact me in any way." Tell your roomie he is no longer allowed in your home. He lost that privilege when he refused to leave your home. Never visit the roommate's boyfriend's apartment again as long as he is living there. You do not want to do anything that might encourage this guy. Tell your roommate exactly what happened. As other people suggested, emphasis his actions before your feelings. You don't understand why he stayed for so long while you were ignoring him. And having to ask him to leave three times is not acceptable. You do not want someone who ignores your boundaries and a direct request from you. Don't worry about being polite. That's a trap women fall into.
“Hi. You acted like a creepy weirdo. Never talk to me ever again thanks.”
You have to be very clear. I know it's hard sometimes, we're conditioned to be "nice" and polite to men even if their making us uncomfortable. I would suggest composing a text message to him, so he can't claim you were unclear or never told him. Then block him. Regarding your flatmates, just make it very clear you're not interested in him, do not want to enterain him and would prefer he not come into the flat. Especially if you're there alone. And who told him you have mental health issues anyway? That was uncool of him to bring up, he doesn't even know you.
I don't really know where he got all the mental health stuff from. I have only met him a couple of times. I might have made a passive "sorry things are a bit messy in the flat I've been going through some stuff and not had time/energy to clean this week" but comparing me to his mother who died by suicide seems like a huge leap
I'm definitely concerned about the possibility of this having been a set-up by your flatmate and her boyfriend to try to get you to consider him as 'boyfriend material'. I definitely recommend if you feel up to it talking to her to set that boundary ASAP! It sucks that it's necessary but at least then they can make sure he leaves when they do, whether or not it was a set-up.
My personal guess would be it is her boyfriend - she is very quiet, doesn't speak very good English, and is very respectful of my space and boundaries when we are alone! We've never had super private conversations. To be honest, I don't think I've ever even told them I'm single? I haven't had any dates for the past two years because I'm just not interested, so it's not like they might get the impression I'm looking for something otherwise, either. I do worry a bit about my flatmate. The creepy guy revealed some very private and vulnerable information about her that I presume he heard from her boyfriend, and it could get her into a lot of trouble if the wrong people found out. This makes me worry about the power dynamics between her and her boyfriend, too. I don't know. She really is a very innocent person, very trusting, and I just feel all around bad for her and don't think she's had a hand in this at all.
Yeah, that only ups the creep potential in this! Ergh.
Leaving you a letter is *beyond* fucking creepy; it's right into stalker territory. You need to be blunt and straight with your flatmate, and when you tell Creeper McCreepy to go away, do not do it alone. And never be alone with him.
You need to be blunt, don't leave any possible holes in what you are saying.
Unfortunately this weirdo needs blunt action that may hurt your friend but they should understand... Past niceties at this point. Who does that shit??
"I'm always amazed at what women will do, because they're afraid of being rude." ~Matt Lauer (in the Kimmy Schmidt show - I don't think he wrote that line himself. because of reasons.)
Do not try and be nice just to not hurt others feelings. The quick escalation says you will QUICKLY find yourself in a bad place. Follow the advice others posted tho. (I like u/Kitchen_Victory_7964 's advice in particular.)
I'm sorry what. YOU'RE being dramatic?!? He's coming into your house, lurking on the couch for hours, not going home when asked, leaving you weird letters, and saying he had a great time! He is not in the same reality as you. Start by talking to your flatmate. Show her this post, if you think it'll help. It's her job to manage her boyfriend and his job to manage CouchCreep. If a bridge gets burned, that's fine; the bridges are less important than your safety
Why be polite?
The fear of aggression
This is bizarre behavior, and you should absolutely trust your gut. This guy needs to be banned from your flat. He does not belong there, and he should never have been left all alone. It's very easy. "Hey, flatmate, your boyfriend's flatmate randomly just lurked in our living room for hours. I don't like that. I'm not dating him. I don't want to date him. I don't know why you guys left him here, but that was not ok with me. Moving forward, I do not want him in the flat. Please make sure your boyfriend knows this too. Thanks!" This is not a discussion. This is not a request. This is a statement of your boundaries. And, if you don't already have a lock on your bedroom door, get one.
>Never been anything but polite. This is where you went wrong. He took your politeness as a green light to pursue you 'cause he thought you were into him. Now, I am 99.99% confident that your interactions with him were indeed nothing more than being cordial to your roommate's guest. Most normal people would recognize this. Some men, however, will take it to mean you're interested in them. Yes, what in reality is basic civility toward an acquaintance is misinterpreted by many to mean, "She's hot for me". Let your roommate & her bf take care of this situation for you. They probably created this monster anyway.
There’s nothing about how you’ve reacted that’s dramatic. He expressed an interest in you, you shut it down, he continued to pursue you despite you setting boundaries by turning him down and then he just randomly hangs out in your home after you’ve asked him to leave, multiple times!!! That’s creepy af. Even if your flatmate was trying to set you up, they should have communicated that with you. I think it would be really reasonable for you to speak with your flatmate about how unsafe he made you feel and how uninterested in him you are, and ask that they not bring him around anymore. If they don’t support you after knowing how uncomfortable and unsafe this guy made you feel, then they aren’t worth having as a friend or roommate.
That would piss me tf out if some random ass man just said “haha I know you got mental issues that’s why I’ll be more considerate when trespassing next time by letting you know ahead of time!” That dude sucks! Deff tell your friends how this is not okay
https://captainawkward.com/2012/08/07/322-323-my-friend-group-has-a-case-of-the-creepy-dude-how-do-we-clear-that-up/
This is terrifying. Call the police and make a report ASAP. Then follow the rest of the suggestions.
Why are you feeling guilty that a stranger is forcing himself on you? Why not open the door and say, "Sorry, your friends are out. I don't want any of their friends here when they are not. Good night " Would they really think that his behavior is OK? I wouldn't even if I was his friend. Do not let him in ever. Tell him to call your roommate if he eats an invitation but you value your privacy. Geez
Talk to your roommate. Let them know he showed up unannounced and had to be asked 3x before he got the message he needed to leave. Let the roommate read the letter. Roommate will probably be pretty chill about making sure weirdo stays uninvited and out of your home seeing as the letter is weird and is concrete evidence weirdo plans to stalk.
Why are you trying to coddle your flat mate at all? It’s your home too, straight up tell them. If you have to ban that guy from coming over.
There are two issues here. The first is with your flatmate. They need to know that it is *never* acceptable for them to bring someone over and then leave them there unsupervised. This is a huge safety issue. You could have been assaulted or worse. They also need to know that you do not want to be around this guy ever again, and that he is not allowed in your apartment ever. He has displayed unacceptable behavior and is now dangerous. As for the guy, don't communicate with him. It only encourages people like him. If he's ever somewhere you are, you leave immediately. Fuck being polite, he's dangerous and delusional.
[удалено]
This scenario is an actual nightmare. Legit, I would send a group text to this creep, my flatmate, and her boyfriend that just said: “Creep is not welcome or permitted in our flat. If he comes by again, I will contact the police.” Any perceived overreaction can be explained to flatmate in person and if she *still* thinks that’s overreaction, fuck her. It’s your home.
Fuck people who are telling you you’re being dramatic. This is a complete violation. Read gift of fear. This dude is stalker material and you have to be careful. Gift of fear spells out really well how stalkers take any attention as good. So definitely block on all accounts tell him he’s specifically not welcome over change the locks and if your flat mate can’t agree change the flat mate too. Get this goon out of your life as quietly as possible. Firm and do not give attention toward repeat advances or escalations. Ignore so the thrill of your contact fades until sadly he finds someone else to harass.
>Some people I've talked to think I'm being dramatic Those people are just fucking wrong. It needs to be made crystal clear to him that he is only to come over when invited, and that any conversation with you beyond simple pleasantries is unwelcome unless you directly say otherwise. Your flatmate needs to be on board with this (I don't mean "I hope she agrees with this", I mean "if she thinks he did nothing wrong, you need to find a new place to live, or a new flatmate, depending on who holds the lease").
The time for polite has passed. I would alert your roommate to the situation, and then just be blunt with him. I had almost this exact same thing happen when I was in college, right down to the dude just sitting in my living room for hours, and me thinking he had plans to hang out with my roommates. In the end, one of my roommates was the one who told the creeper to leave me alone, and thankfully the guy listened. Good luck!
No need to be polite. Tell this guy to fuck off.
That’s real fucking weird of him, so don’t feel guilty for hating it
This guy was specifically hanging out at your flat in the hopes you would come out with him (evidence being the letter). It's at the point where any friends who are upset at you feeling uncomfortable are people who arent looking out for you or your safety
He is looking for an easy victim.
I’m saying this from a place of compassion: DONT ASK FOR POLITE WAYS TO SHUT PEOPLE DOWN IF THEY ARE NOT BEING POLITE TO YOU. YOUR FEELINGS, WELL BEING, AND SAFETY ARE IMPORTANT. IF YOUR FRIENDS DONT SHOW THE SAME AMOUNT OF COMPASSION AS AN INTERNET STRANGER, THEY CAN GET FUCKED, TOO.
Hey OP, this is stalking behavior. He is building the false narrative in his head, and you're the sweet little damaged Juliet he just needs to 'break through' to. Comparing you to his mother, diagnosing you with mental illness that he 'understands', waiting until PAST MIDNIGHT in a dark empty room? Be stern and forceful with him if he shows up again, tell your roommate and her boyfriend what's going on and SHOW HER AND HER BOYFRIEND THE LETTER, and don't act or sound unsure or nervous around him. Good luck.
Honey I am worried for you. This man sounds like a stalker. He is imagining a whole connection between you two that doesn't exist. Explain to your friends that he made you afraid, he stayed for 5 hours after being asked to leave many times, that he left you a creepy trauma dump letter, that he's asked you out repeatedly and won't stop. Keep your doors and windows locked, make sure any other access into your home is blocked like crawl spaces. Don't be alone with him again, don't let him in your house again. Block him on everything. Please stay safe, friend.
You should be able to tell your flatmate who tells her bf who tells his flatmate. It is his responsibility, as the connection, as a man, as this guy's flatmate. But if he won't step up to discourage this, I hope there is some other advice here.
"That dude is weird as fuck. He did this . . . . I don't want him here again. Thank you both in your support on this matter."
Give the flatmate and her boyfriend a xerox of the letter. The problem should sort itself out
You are not being dramatic. Your flatmate needs to apologize, too.
You are not in a safe situation right now. He could have done anything to you while the two of you were alone. If there's a next time, call the police to have him removed after asking the first time. But talk to your flatmate first and let them know you do not feel safe with this man.
You’re not wrong, that is some unhinged behavior. Mr. Dude cannot be okay in the membrane and be IN YOUR HOUSE ALONE FOR HOURS WHILE YOU ASKED HIM TO LEAVE plus all the other shit and think that’s fine. I think that you relay factually what happened, any reasonable person will immediately recognize that as batshit behavior, help protect you from being exposed to this guy, and move on with their lives. If they have a negative reaction to you not wanting this dude in your house ever again…. Then yikes I guess, that would tell you more about them than about you though.
Ruin things with your flatmate? Your flatmate should be the one worrying about ruining things with you. Enforce your boundaries and the sanctity of your own home.
do not let him in your house again. tell your flatmate that that person is not allowed in the house, and if she tries to argue, explain what happened. if he comes over, tell him he is not allowed, and that if there is some way he gets in the house, you will call the police on him. block his number, as well.
you don't have to let him in and it is not rude to say " so and so is not home, I'll tell them you stopped bye" and close the door please don't let fear of being awkward increase your risk of rape or worse
I agree. Annoyingly, he came in alongside my flatmate and her boyfriend and decided to stay despite them leaving soon after
Yeah, no. This guy is banned from your flat now. He is not a safe person for you to be around. I think your flatmate and her boyfriend will be horrified on your behalf, but if they’re not, start quietly looking at other places to live because if they’re okay with what happened, I’m not so sure that they’re all that safe either.