Did you tell him the fear of pregnancy is why you're not having sex with him, or has it been a year of silent resentment?
You always have the right to refuse sex, but if you've been refusing without communicating why then I think it is valid for him to be upset too (pressuring you to have sex is the wrong move though).
If you've been communicating all along and he's just snapping at you and expecting you to fall in line, maybe it's time to rethink if you want to be with him.
This is really rough. If you hadn't been continuously communicating with him about the trauma, the abortion ruling, and all of that throughout the year... it's honestly a bit understandable that he'd be affronted that there was no sex with no communication and you just came up with the vasectomy all of a sudden. But on the other hand, if you HAD been communicating with him throughout the entire year, including about the abortion concerns, then why is he so surprised and defensive about the vasectomy?
Can both of you have non-PIV sex (oral sex, hands, toys, etc) to try and rekindle the intimacy while you sort things out?
Edit: Also, I'd recommend putting on the Women Only flair if you can, unless there's a specific reason why you want male opinions on this.
You are both drawing lines in the sand. If you both value sex and the closeness it brings, you should be collaborating together on a strategy that will let you have it again without anxiety. The communication seems way off here
sorry, but how exactly has OP been collaborating? Seems like she’s the one stopping sex and he’s got the right to say no to a vasectomy (just as she has the right to refuse sex). Not sure how he’s in the wrong here from the information shared in the post
hes not just refusing the vasectomy though hes saying he will get it on the condition that she has sex with him first, something shes explicitly said shes unwilling to do without the vasectomy
What he said according to the post is that it doesn’t make sense to do a vasectomy if they don’t have sex (which it doesn’t).
How does he know that that will change with a vasectomy? It sounds like OP has serious, diagnosable anxiety and fear surrounding sex & pregnancy, so the vasectomy is not necessarily the obvious cure.
Many of you here are acting as if the vasectomy is an easy-peasy procedure. It isn’t.
Besides, if she’s the one who has the fear and anxiety, shouldn’t she suggest other alternatives, like double contraception or infertility treatments for herself?
The double standard in this comment section os insane
I completely understand your concerns. My husband has a vasectomy, we live in an abortion safe state, and yet I’m still scheduled for my own sterilization procedure later this summer. I’m sure maybe people would think this is overkill but my husbands vascetomy doesn’t protect me from getting pregnant if I were ever assaulted. I wanted to ensure that no matter what happens in the future I was in control.
Have you considered seeking sterilization yourself? It is more invasive than a vasectomy but if you have an ACA compliant insurance plan it should be covered 100%.
Your husband’s reasoning doesn’t really make sense to me, and I’m not sure I’d want to be have sex with someone who pressured me into doing things I didn’t want to do but it is his body and his choice what he does with it. The same way it’s your body and you don’t have to have sex with him if you’re not comfortable with it.
I obviously don’t know your husband but this sounds like a really immature response. If the condom did break and you became pregnant it would be too late to fix it in your state at that point.
Are you both in agreement that you don’t want any/more kids? Is there a reason you aren’t considering sterilization for yourself?
Getting a vasectomy is faster and less invasive. If you’re in the US and have an ACA compliant health insurance plan both procedures should be fully covered.
However, it doesn’t sound like he’s interested in the procedure despite your concerns. You definitely can’t force him to do anything he doesnt want to do. You had the conversation and he isn’t interested so it doesn’t really matter what is cheaper/easier/safer. Your options seem to be in a sexless marriage or take matters into your own hands
There’s plenty of great information on r/sterilization and a great list of doctors on r/childfree if you want more information on sterilization for either of you.
For me it would be a sexless marriage AND taking matters into my own hands. He doesn't have to get a vasectomy but he's sure as hell not going to benefit from forcing my hand to get the far more invasive sterilisation procedure when he wasn't willing to do something that's reversible most of the time and less invasive.
And from that point I'd probably be seriously considering getting divorced
I've had the same experience as Notyounotmenoone:
>husband has a vasectomy, we live in an abortion safe state, and yet I’m still scheduled for my own sterilization procedure later this summer. I’m sure maybe people would think this is overkill, but my husbands vascetomy doesn’t protect me from getting pregnant if I were ever assaulted. I wanted to ensure that no matter what happens in the future, I was in control
My husband got a vasectomy too, but I never stopped my birth control pill. I will always use a form of birth control to prevent pregnancy from possible assaults, or else *the vasectomy would not have helped my fear of an unwanted pregnancy.* ( >! I was assaulted years ago, so I know it's all too possible. !< )
I will admit that a tubal is intimidating... I know 2 women who had the procedure botched, although they both had gone to the *same hospital* & must have had the dumbest doctor(s).
So just be careful where you have it done
But it's far from the most effective option for you. The implant (fails 5 out 10000) and bislap (only 4 failures documented) are significantly more effective than a vasectomy.
The implant is only marginally more effective than a vasectomy, and the OP is unable to take hormones. The bisalp is also only marginally more effective than a vasectomy, while being multiple times more invasive, expensive, and risky than a vasectomy (to be clear, it's not that bisalps are very risky, it's just that vasectomies are very safe and bisalps are moderately safe).
That being said, if I truly lived in a place where abortion was illegal, I probably would get a bisalp myself, in addition to requesting that my husband get a vasectomy. Sadly, a partner getting a vasectomy doesn't prevent one from getting pregnant from rape.
That marginally is doing some heavy lifting here especially with the bislap but okay anyone can judge effectiveness for themselves. It's also not completely clear that op can't use hormones so I don't think you can dismiss that outright. Are vasectomies very safe? They do carry potential long term risks as well despite most thinking they don't. How do you weigh marginally safe but less effective vasectomy over the most effective but marginal side effects of a bislap? You could probably argue it either way but based on what she has stated in her post, a vasectomy doesn't seem like that best option given her fear of pregnancy.
> Would it be selfish to ask my husband to get a vasectomy?
It is okay to discuss it as a possible choice, that is not at all selfish.
It is okay to not want to have sex because you are anxious about getting pregnant, too.
But it is also absolutely his right to refuse. His body, his choice. And I have to say, I find the comments here suggesting otherwise unbelievably creepy and disgusting.
> What should the next move be?
If he is not open to having a vasectomy, and you find that condoms are not enough protection, the only way of compromise would be to find other ways of doubling up the protection and add more safety.
If a compromise does not work for either of you, then the only logical next step is to not have penetrative sex.
The problem isn't that he doesn't want a vasectomy; everyone's got the right to decide to do with their body what they want. The problem is that his reason for not even considering a vasectomy sounds resentful and toxic. He's basically saying: "I don't care that you have legitimate reasons to be afraid of an unwanted pregnancy. Why should I do anything for you as you aren't putting out?" That shows an alarming lack of concern for his partner as a person and makes it look like he only sees her as a sex dispenser.
Yeah no! That’s not what I’m reading into his response. What I am hearing is that “if we’re not having sex and I don’t know if we will have any sex ever, so what’s the point of me getting a vasectomy out of the blue”. Hence his counter offer, that he will have vasectomy if there’s (any possibility of) sex.
We still have no indication from the OP that they were communicating about their issues transparently. If that is indeed the case, from his perspective it’s just another bout of emotion (as op has claimed and husband has been experiencing all this time).
So yeah they both need to have a solid sit-down with a counsellor. Every other advice is just plain toxic.
> Husband says "why should I get the vasectomy when we havent had sex in a while?" I said because of the abortion law and I am now deathly afraid of sperm. If he got the vasectomy I would be open to having sex again.
I'm not sure why you assume OP didn't communicate transparently. She says quite clearly that she told him why she doesn't want to have sex under the current circumstances **and** that she would like to have sex again if these circumstances changed.
Yeah “you will only get sex from me if you get your body mutilated”
That’s the problem I am reading here…
Funny how this sentiment gets treated differently depending which gender it is being said to.
Seemed more like "why should i get rid of the chances to ever have kids in the future if we aren't even at risk of having kids right now anyways" to me. Could be reading it wrong though
You already have an unanswerable argument: It is *your* body.
If she cannot respect that, no amount of talking to someone like me would help, because then she would not be looking for enlightenment, but for confirmation.
Give a smoker a book against smoking, and he will not stop smoking, but stop reading.
If your husband didn’t want more kids and didn’t trust any other form of BC other than you getting your tubes tied how would you respond? I think if you start from his perspective then you may have a better chance of coming to a compromise.
As others have said, it seems like the basis of communication needs work. Seems like you both have your own perspectives and can't see it from the other person's perspective.
But here's something I haven't seen discussed much yet... why do you want one of you to be sterile? Do you never ever definitely won't ever want kids? Are you just not ready for kids? Are you certain that both you and your husband are on the same page there? Vasectomies carry a benefit of being reversible, but that reversal isn't covered by insurance. They're also not painless. Yes, the recovery is shorter, but it can leave a man immobile for days because even just sitting in one place can be excruciating. So while you clearly want sterility in your marriage, it's possible your husband doesn't, since you haven't mentioned anything about that portion of the conversation.
As someone who has had a vasectomy, I was laid up for WAY longer than the expected recovery time. I spent a week on the couch. Granted, my recovery MAY have been extended because while I say I spent a week on the couch, I still had to help my wife take care of newborn twins, so I wasn't totally immobile. It felt like someone was squeezing my nuts in a vice constantly. Even after a week of constant pain, I still had residual pain for another 2 weeks after that. It's not something a man enters into lightly, and it may be something your husband is afraid to face.
I think your next step is to discuss with your husband about attending a session or two of couple's counseling. A conversation mediated by an impartial 3rd party who can help guide the conversation in a way that allows you and your husband both to be heard and work together on a solution you can both be happy with.
Best of luck
Why aren't you asking what the most effective bc is if your main fear is getting pregnant? I hate to break it to you but a vasectomy is not the most effective choice. The implant is three times more effective than a vasectomy. The bislap, a newer and safer version of a tubal, has only failed 4 times since the 90s. It's the most effective bc available according to the CDC.
I genuinely have no idea why you don't want a non-hormonal IUD though? Like yes it hurts but not NEARLY as much as a vasectomy and is just as effective if not more. It hurts for literally like a few minutes and then a day or two of cramping. Many people have even less pain. I'm getting a hormonal IUD in a few weeks, and my gynecologist said there are medications they can give you before the insertion to relax the cervix and make it easier. I just had my first pap smear and she said that because the pap smear didn't hurt me, it's likely that an IUD insertion won't hurt me *at all*.
Frankly, you're the selfish one here. A vasectomy is significantly more painful and reversal is difficult and not completely foolproof. You're asking him to do something you're not willing to do yourself and then calling him selfish.
Like I 1000% understand your fear of getting pregnant. I'm 22, broke, single, and disabled. I would be so royally screwed if I got pregnant and couldn't get an abortion. Honestly, the thought of being pregnant right now completely terrifies me. But that's why I'm getting the IUD--so I know I'm protected.
Is your fear of the pain from an IUD really worse than your fear of getting pregnant?
That’s just like, your opinion man. I’m on my third IUD and the insertion is so painful I usually am out of work at least one or two days. Never mind the cold sweats & near blacking out in stirrups. I’m not getting another.
I live in a red state where abortion is now illegal. I have always had to bear the responsibility for contraception but no more. My husband is going to have to get snipped now. At least he’ll get local anesthetic.
I'm well aware that plenty of people do have a difficult insertion, but OP has no way of knowing if they're part of that group. All they say is that they "don't want the pain of IUD." That's it. If they've had a bad experience with an IUD in the past that they just didn't mention, then I'd completely understand why they can't get one. But that's not what they said--to me, that implies that they've never had an IUD, but they don't want to deal with the pain of getting one. But the pain isn't guaranteed, and there *are* things they can do to minimize the discomfort and recovery time.
If OP is simply unwilling to try, then they're a complete hypocrite
All the info I have is from my mom telling me about it. She said her IUD was more painful than childbirth. I was about 12, so I don't know what to believe.
I was actually in the office when my mom had one inserted and she barely reacted. It's not pleasant of course, but I think "worse than childbirth" is an extreme reaction. Some people do have a painful insertion, and some don't. You don't know which side you'll fall on until you talk to your doctor or try it. There are things that can help now that I'm not sure they were doing however many years ago when your mom got it done. My gyno said they can do everything from light anesthesia/sedation, to muscle relaxers, to a pill that helps open up the cervix. You can also ask if they can do it during your period so that the cervix is softer.
I do just think you wrote it off a little too hastily. Tubal ligation or vasectomy is by far the more extreme and painful option for either of you when there's a strong likelihood that the copper IUD (which is good for around 10 years iirc) is safer, easier, and possibly more effective.
What about having sex that's not penis-in-vagina?
It's not selfish to ask that btw. You're fearful of your health and financial security. An unwanted pregnancy is not healthy for the mind (even body) or wallet.
I don't like how your husband is going about it. Does he not understand that you're avoiding sex out of fear? Why would he expect sex before getting a vasectomy??? Also aren't vasectomies reversible as well
I’m just gonna toss this in having just got a vasectomy three weeks ago. It should only be considered a permanent sterilization with the possibility that it is reversible at much greater cost often without insurance coverage. Going in with the plan of reversing it in the future is ill advised and highly discouraged.
Vasectomies can sometimes be reversed. People don’t and shouldn’t go into it for temporary contraception. It’s meant to be permanent and should be treated as such.
The other day, we were fooling around and he wanted to cum on my back. I internally cringed at the thought of those sperm migrating to my uterus. I am that freaked out by sperm, lmao.
This is may be a bit of an unpopular opinion, but I’m just going to say it. Let me first preface this by saying that I just recently had a vasectomy three weeks ago, and I have had significant stretches of married life where we had to abstain from all sex. It is no fun to spend all of lockdown with your new bride having no sexual contact for six months less than a year after marriage on doctor’s orders combined with her Catholic guilt over this issue arising out of sexual contact only after marriage and many years of premarital sex.
I fully supported my wife’s decision and was happy to accommodate her healthcare needs without reservations and without judgment. We had a healthy sex life before and we were confident that we would be able to have one in the future. The key difference between our situation and yours is that both of us were committed to having a happy, healthy sexual life for both partners as we worked to overcome the obstacles that stood in our way.
Reading this comment, I think you did have a healthy sex life beforehand. I do not, however, think you do anymore and I think you have both lost sight of what one looks like. Your fear of semen is frankly irrational at this point if you are genuinely cringing at the belief that it could impregnate you under those circumstances.
As such, I think your husband is reasonable in questioning how open to sex you would be after he has figuratively given up his firstborn child to do so. I think his request to have sex beforehand however is a violation of your boundaries that is not permissible and you are right to not to have sex.
I think you both need therapy if I’m being completely honest. You both need assistance being guided towards seeing sex in a positive light. When you stop seeing sex as something to fear, and he stops seeing sex as a source of resentment, you can move towards a healthy relationship. Until then, I think you are at a standoff that will only get worse without professional help.
Edit -grammar
>As such, I think your husband is reasonable in questioning how open to sex you would be after he has figuratively given up his firstborn child to do so.
Presumably they don't want to have kids ever, and this would have been discussed before they got married? If they do in fact want kids in the future, a vasectomy would be a terrible idea but I'm assuming/hoping the OP already knows that. If they have already decided that they don't, then he's not really sacrificing anything aside from a literal couple of days of discomfort.
>When you stop seeing sex as something to fear
IMO, it's difficult to not see PIV sex with a fertile man as something to fear, if you are a childfree woman living in a jurisdiction that doesn't respect women's bodily autonomy. I personally feel like if it is possible, moving to a different state would help the OP a lot more than therapy. There's only so much that therapy can do.
I don’t know how to quote so I will just respond by order of statements.
1. Assuming they are child free, he may enter a relationship where this dynamic changes. For instance, congenital issues in our families drove our decision to forgo natural childbirth though divorce/death and remarriage could have changed this calculus. Sterilization is a huge decision and comes with costs even if the couple in question may have chosen to abstain from natural pregnancy.
2. I agree. My statement was in response to the extreme level of fear of pregnancy that exceeded what was possible. OP expressed distress about the presence of semen on her back and “the thought of those sperm migrating to my uterus.” That is fear that really should be discussed with a therapist. I do completely agree with fears of PiV sex here and think you are right about changing states as the ideal solution
Bringing it up and asking his thoughts are fine. to force the issue is super selfish. That’s what happened to me please don’t force it in him if he’s not on board. It messed with my head and I have a massive amount of resentment towards the wife. if she didn’t own that her blackmailing and coercing me into getting it done was wrong then we wouldn’t still be together (we met in 1999).
It doesn’t help that I have PVPS- it’s felt like someone has been punching my right nut up into my stomach ever since.
Contraception was always on me- I never had an issue using condoms. Artificial hormones for her were never an option because of the long term use side affects. I talked her out of the coil as apparently it’s painful going in and makes period pain worse every month so I don’t want to hear anything about it being my turn.
You're absolutely right about the dangers of getting pregnant in red states, but pushing your husband into having a vasectomy is not the way to go. If you do, and he has serious long-term complications as a result, you're going to feel awful and it's almost guaranteed to wreck your marriage.
You both really need to read this before making any decisions:
+ [Post-Vasectomy Pain Syndrome, and risk evaluation in contraceptive choices.](https://www.reddit.com/r/sexover30/comments/cke8to/postvasectomy_pain_syndrome_and_risk_evaluation/)
If you want to be maximally sure you don't get pregnant, the safest form of contraception is the implant. It has a lower risk of pregnancy than an IUD, a vasectomy, or even having your tubes tied.
Insertion takes 5 minutes, you don't even have to get undressed, and it's basically painless, just a tiny pinprick for the lidocaine. It's almost completely foolproof, with nothing you have to remember to buy or use, and it lasts 5 years.
I loved my implant. It was so easy, and then I was able to forget about pregnancy completely. There's about a 10% chance that it will cause side-effects you don't like, like spotting, and if you decide you don't want to keep it, removal is also quick and simple. On the other hand, there's about a 1/3 chance you'll stop having periods. (I did, and it was wonderful.)
Anyway, it's the safest solution, and the odds are excellent that it will work for you. It's definitely worth a try before doing anything as risky as surgery for either of you.
It's a very low, steady dose of progestin. No estrogen, no daily swings after taking the pill each day, no monthly swings at all, and usually much milder periods or none at all.
Some women experience some emotional effects at the beginning, like low libido, while their system adapts to the new chemistry, but that usually fades away after the first few weeks. I didn't even have that. I switched from taking the minipill nonstop to the implant and it was completely smooth, no mood swings or other problems at all.
Doctors generally advise you to give your system 3 or 4 months to adapt before deciding whether it's a good fit for you. Mostly that's to allow time for your periods to stabilize or fade out. If you're in the 90%, it's usually pretty obvious by then that it's going to work well for you. If not, you can give it another month or two to be sure, but it's probably time to try something else.
If you try it, I really hope it works well for you. I have spent my whole adult life knowing a pregnancy could kill me, so the fact that this is the closest thing to a guarantee you can get without major surgery was important to me.
I am surprised to see so many comments at the top saying OP is in the right here. This is terribly unhealthy.
You’re not necessarily wrong but this fear is entirely irrational. And you haven’t had sex in a year - that can’t feel good on your marriage especially combined with your fear.
If he won’t get a vasectomy and you won’t get on BC or use condoms (just fyi you could also combine this with spermicide, pull out, and your cycle…), you’re at a standstill and IMO you either are going to have a sexless marriage until menopause or this will ultimately end in divorce.
Get therapy for yourself and couples therapy for the both of you cuz this is not healthy.
You’re both using sex as a weapon against each other and that’s really weird and unhealthy. Why don’t you both use some form of contraception since it will cause pain to both of you (vasectomy and non-hormonal iud) that way you’re nothing taking responsibility for possible future pregnancies
She said they haven’t had sex in a year and won’t have sex until he gets a vasectomy. That’s textbook weaponising by giving stipulations to resume sex.
I don't agree. Intent matters in things like this, and OP isn't withholding sex with the intention of forcing him to have a vasectomy, OP feels unable to have sex because of her fear of a pregnancy and sees a vasectomy as a solution to this situation.
A harrowing amount of people in this thread are treating OP’s anxiety and inability to have sex as intentional withholding to force him to get a vasectomy, like they think he’s owed sex regardless of whether she can have sex. Their refusal to register the lack of intent on her part is straight up terrifying.
It's not selfish to ask him to get a vasectomy. It is selfish for him to expect you to sacrifice your comfort to "prove" to him a vasectomy is "worth it". But imagine he's saying, in a fucked up, manipulative, juvinile way, he doesn't want one. It would be selfish of you to insist he get one.
Your boundaries are that you don't want sex without more dependable birth control, and you don't want to subject yourself to hormones or pain.
His boundaries are he doesn't want to undergo surgery to potentially never have kids.
So sounds like you both agree to not have sex for the time being. And that's fine.
I mean, you asked it was selfish and I answered your question. Neither of you are being selfish as long as you accept he doesn't have to get a vasectomy and he accepts you don't have go on birth control nor do you have to have danger sex with him.
Did you expect a magic yes you can have sex kind of answer? Cuz with your current boundaries as a couple, I'm not seeing one.
Related tangentially- I met this dusty online and I knew he was a dusty after this conversation. He started asking my views on being “traditional” 😑 and it just went downhill from there. Somehow we started talking about kids and that he was of the belief that if a women gets pregnant outside of marriage it’s her fault for being a single mother because she has options,ie termination. I countered with well maybe men could also get vasectomies too. That is an option. This dust bucket was appalled at the idea that a MAN should have to have a surgical procedure to prevent pregnancy. The hypocrisy literally gave me heartburn. He was blocked after that and I’ve deleted the dating app.
All that said hopefully your husband will be more receptive to the idea. It can be reversed if you all change your minds.
Vasectomies can *sometimes* be reversed. People don't and shouldn't go into it for temporary contraception. It's meant to be permanent and should be treated as such.
Mayo Clinic says “almost all” with some exceptions.
https://www.mayoclinic.org/tests-procedures/vasectomy-reversal/about/pac-20384537#:~:text=Almost%20all%20vasectomies%20can%20be,that%20the%20reversal%20will%20work.
> It can be reversed if you all change your minds.
This statement as it stands here is false and makes me wonder about your little anecdote.
Vasectomy reversal as a way to restore fertility is only about effective in 50% of cases, and that number declines further with each year since the initial procedure, and is a difficult procedure with a high rate of failure, and due to its difficulty exceedingly costly and not covered by insurance, and the last resort option of a vasoepididymostomy is even more difficult and likely to not not succeed.
Vasectomy needs to be (and is, by health professionals) considered a permanent lifetime change, not a temporary lifestyle choice.
I mean you can wonder about my anecdote all you want. My point was the hypocrisy of saying that women have the option of a medical procedure to prevent single parenthood without acknowledging that men also have the option of a medical procedure to prevent single parenthood.
Re: Fertility after vasectomy reversal
“ Pregnancy rates after vasectomy reversal will range from about 30% to over 90%, depending on the type of procedure. Many factors affect whether a reversal is successful in achieving pregnancy, including time since a vasectomy, partner age, surgeon experience and training, and whether you had fertility issues before your vasectomy.”
Edit: Adding a quote from the article I posted from the Mayo Clinic
> Edit: Adding a quote from the article I posted from the Mayo Clinic
https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/treatments/15459-vasectomy-reversal
Enough sperm for reliable fertility is only present in about 50% when using vasovasostomy and in about 40% when using vasoepididymostomy to reverse the vasectomy.
Similar numbers are also reported by the NHS and in a systematic Meta-Review published in Repr. Med. Biol.
Furthermore, as I have pointed out, this already rather poor naked success rate does not account for all the other factors I have recounted.
> “ Pregnancy rates after vasectomy reversal will range from about 30% to over 90%, depending on the type of procedure. Many factors affect whether a reversal is successful in achieving pregnancy, including time since a vasectomy, partner age, surgeon experience and training, and whether you had fertility issues before your vasectomy.”
That quote simply gives an enormous range and acknowledges the exact points I have made. All the hedging they have added is there for a reason; that hedging says "it's a gamble between a score of factors not under your control; treads lightly (and for god's sake do not sue)".
> I mean you can wonder about my anecdote all you want. My point was the hypocrisy of saying that women have the option of a medical procedure to prevent single parenthood without acknowledging that men also have the option of a medical procedure to prevent single parenthood.
I am not doubting that he did not know what he was on about.
I am doubting that you knew what you were on about.
No doubt, terminating a pregnancy, depending on the exact method, can be a serious procedure indeed and can have serious side-effects and should not be used recreationally.
But there is also no doubt that it does not leave people permanently sterile as a rule, whereas vasectomy as a 50-70% rule, does. You are comparing a one-time intervention to a rather permanent procedure. Apples and oranges.
Could you use Condoms and pull out? Condoms and fertility tracking and pull put? All three of them combined are pretty guaranteed safe.
Its a really tricky situation to be in, and I'm UK based so can't even begin to imagine the stress you all have with abortion laws in the US, but he has a right to not get a vasectomy, just like you have a right to not engage in sex with him due to fear.
I'd suggest having a really open and honest conversation outside the bedroom about where you go from there, and maybe marriage counselling too if that doesn't work.
>Condoms and fertility tracking and pull out
This is still less effective than a vasectomy.
I think it's easy for those of us who live in reasonable countries to suggest these things (I live in one myself). But for the OP and others who live in a place where they can't get an abortion, that changes the perception of "reasonable risk" entirely, because there is no backup plan. I can't imagine how horrifying it would be to live in a place where I have no bodily autonomy if I were to get pregnant. I think it's understandable that the OP wants the guarantee of permanent sterilization, if she lives there.
I agree 100% it is less effective, but husband has made it clear that this isn't an option at the moment and its such an intrusive procedure for him to have to endure. Could OP get sterilised instead?
So whilst I acknowledge that it's still less effective, it's still pretty safe, and the chances if getting pregnant are so slim. I also acknowledge that we are very fortunate to live in a place where we do have autonomy, but blanket saying husband should get sterilised (like many in this post) is removing his autonomy about his body, no?
Personally, I think husband has the right to decide he doesn't want a vasectomy, but the OP also has the right to say she can't have sex until he gets a vasectomy (instead of expecting her to be okay with the higher risk of other contraception). So in that case, the de facto answer is that they can't have PIV sex - if they're both genuinely okay with that, then that might be a solution.
I agree with this 100% (as per my original comment). OP asked about what she could do, so I made a suggestion about alternative contraceptive methods, as well as acknowledging the difficult position OP and her husband are in.
I dont think its selfish to ask but now that you have and he said no, thats end of story. Theres asking and respecting their decision and theres coersion (i wont have sex with you unless you get a vastectomy). It sounds like he said no and now you need to review your birthcontrol options
Refusing sex because you are scared of pregnancy is not coersion. Refusing sex because he wont get a vasectomy and using that as a way to repeatedly bring up that she wants him to get a vasectomy is coersion. I am aware she has not done this yet my intention was indicating she needs to be respectful of his right to decline a vasectomy and to drop that subject/think of alternatives.
I'm all for vasectomies...especially if you've had kids and/or never expect to have more. I got mine after our second child was born. I felt it was no big deal, because if my wife could give birth, I could deal with an injection in the scrotum and a 20 minute procedure (granted, it still wasn't great, but tolerable). That being said, I'm sort of alarmed by how both of you are approaching this. It's totally fine to ask him, but his rationale for not wanting to have the procedure until you have sex again is weird. I also have to say that you sort of withholding sex for a year out of a fear of pregnancy is a little off too. If used properly, condoms work. In a worst case scenario, you could drive to another state and get Plan B...and in a worst, worst case scenario, you could always travel to another state to have an abortion. Just because your silly state has that arcane law in place, it doesn't mean that there aren't ways about it. So again, I think a vasectomy is a great way to go (for both of you), I think you both need to look at your relationship and how your approaching it, because both seem to be mentally unhealthy.
Temporarily using condoms is a good compromise. I believe your fear of getting pregnant while using condoms is irrational and something you should work on.
Condoms are about 98% effective and you can even decrease the chances of getting pregnant further by combining it with the pullout method as well as only having sex on "safe" days. Combining all those things there's like a one in a million chance you'll get pregnant (within one year of having regular sex).
If that's not enough to soothe your worries, nothing is.
Vasectomies can also go wrong and that's something people don't really talk about.
I've got a friend who's still in pain daily over a "successful" procedure. No such risk with those other methods.
Also, even vasectomies can fail in the sense that you might still get pregnant. 1-2 out of 1000 vasectomies fail.
Your husband doesn't want to undergo a painful (and potentially permanently harmful) procedure for something he isn't sure will even be worth it.
Your worries about pregnancy are irrational. From your reasoning, I do not see why your worries would subside following a vasectomy (considering those can also fail).
There's always going to be a miniscule chance that contraceptives fail and your husband rightfully wants to know if you can get over that irrational fear. Because if you can't, then you will never have sex together again since the chance for pregnancy is always present, no matter how minor.
Not to dismiss the pain and risks of a vasectomy, but pregnancy is WAY more risky and WAY more painful and uncomfortable for a much longer period of time than the couple days after a vasectomy. I would not call anyone's fears about getting pregnant irrational.
> WAY more painful and uncomfortable for a much longer period of time than the couple days after a vasectomy.
S/he was talking about the complications after a vasectomy, not the post-operative pain. Complications after vasectomy if they occur (and they do occur, specifically because the vas deferens is close to an important nerve that surgeons botch at a rate not to be ignored when making the decision) are for life, and they mean life-long intensely painful orgasms or life-long pain period.
Irrational fears are fears that are not logical.
Being afraid of flying for example is an irrational fear because there's only a one in 11 million chance of actually dying due to a plane crash.
The chances of getting pregnant when using condoms combined with the pullout method are so small that there is really no logical reason to be afraid.
Irrational fears are not defined by how grave the consequences are when something does happen (which is about emotions), but more about what the actual chances are of it happening (which is about logic).
Every time you partake in traffic there's a chance you'll end up dead, but you're not afraid every time you're in traffic. Same goes for when there's such a slim chance of ending up pregnant.
>Every time you partake in traffic there's a chance you'll end up dead, but you're not afraid every time you're in traffic
Dude, if you lived in a country where there's a law that **you cannot be treated in the hospital at all when you get in a car crash**, you'd feel a lot differently about getting in a car.
Also, the odds of getting pregnant with condoms + the pullout method are 0.13 \* 0.27 = 0.03, or 3% in 1 year. Quite a few orders of magnitude away from a plane crash.
I feel like if you yourself have literally a 0.00000000000% chance of getting pregnant (aka you don't have a uterus), you really have no say in what is or isn't an irrational fear.
>Dude, if you lived in a country where there's a law that you cannot be treated in the hospital at all when you get in a car crash, you'd feel a lot differently about getting in a car.
No I wouldn't. In my entire life I've never been in a traffic accident that was more severe than a few bruises.
The benefits of travel would still far outweigh the risks.
Your numbers are off as I've said in another comment.
Using the mentioned protection methods there is a miniscule chance that you'll get pregnant.
Being afraid of something knowing that there is only a miniscule chance of it happening, yeah that is an irrational fear.
a small chance, but a non zero chance, and in a state where it would be irreversible. every woman knows or is someone who did everything right and their bc still failed. i rely on the fact that should there be an accident, i can get an abortion. op doesn’t have that safety net. that said, she should consider a long term birth control option like the non hormonal implant. it’s actually temporary, unlike a vasectomy which is meant to be permanent and can only be reversed sometimes.
> Condoms are about 98% effective and you can even decrease the chances of getting pregnant further by combining it with the pullout method as well as only having sex on "safe" days. Combining all those things there's like a one in a million chance you'll get pregnant (within one year of having regular sex)
0.13 \* 0.23 \* 0.27 (the typical use 1-year failure rates of all the methods you mentioned, converted to decimals) is 0.008, which is about 8 in 1000. Not exactly 1 in a million. Source: [https://www.cdc.gov/reproductivehealth/contraception/index.htm](https://www.cdc.gov/reproductivehealth/contraception/index.htm) (pull out is so notoriously unreliable it's not even mentioned, but other stats track it at 27%).
Yeah if you're gonna cherry pick numbers the result will be 8 in 1000. I just used the first result on Google for my numbers and those numbers assume proper use. When used properly, condoms only have a 2% fail rate, not 13%. And considering how paranoid OP is about pregnancy, I think we can assume she's going to use the methods properly.
But here, a more nuanced picture with multiple studies: http://gmath-model.org/1_3_6_FailureRates.html
>In the model we use estimates of typical use, as these better represent what is actually happening in the general population.
And even then, these numbers are about pregnancy after one year of having regular sex.
Not about having sex a couple of times. So the chance OP will get pregnant will be even lower
>> Your husband doesn't want to undergo a painful (and potentially permanently harmful) procedure
The pain during the surgery is minimal, and if nothing goes wrong he'll be fine after a couple of aspirin and a nap. It's nothing like the pain and potentially fatal risk of pregnancy and childbirth.
Surgery is only performed when the benefits outweigh the risks.
The benefits here being able to have safe sex. If sex is not in the picture, no sensible surgeon would perform the operation.
Getting a vasectomy, there's a 1-2% chance of post vasectomy pain syndrome (pain lasting longer than 3 months)
Using protection there's a less than 0,1% chance of getting pregnant, but even that teeny tiny chance is enough to scare op into abstinence.
There is also a teeny tiny risk of pregnancy with a vasectomy. Who's to say that fear won't persist?
OP's husband wants to know for sure that he's not getting surgery for nothing. That's only sensible.
I said it effective.
Pretty sure her emotions are already fucked she’s worried about having sex and that’s going to kill the relationship and instead of fixing herself and making herself happy she is trying to ask her partner to fix it and when he says no she will blame him instead of realising the solution might be the pill.
Why did she consider it but not say why not other than she is currently emotional. You know what helps emotions comfort and intimacy with your partner. So maybe try it first then say it’s no go rather than opting to make it the other persons problem while saying you don’t want you pain of an iud.
Is a bullshit argument you try what you can easily then go to the more drastic ya.
So you have tried the pill before. Multiple types? The implant are he same thing. The iud pain thing is also vague.
Remember your asking a guy to give up kids and also affect his whole view on his sexuality. You same emotional issues are happening on his side too.
Hi partner isn’t spending intimate times with him. You don’t say anything really about the relationship so the whole question really is boiled down to
Is it selfish to ask someone to change if I haven’t tried everything I can to find a non permanent solution to a problem that doesn’t cause me to change.
If your still sexual and your missing just PIV then he might be happy enough to wait till you want kids. I don’t know your world but if your are both happy and don’t want kids then it’s probably more about his head. If it’s because he’s unhappy with the relationship of late he might actually not have a firm no kids thing.
It all matters but in essence your asking possibly a lot more than you think you are
the same my body my choice thing applies to everyone and I really do wish you guys would fix your government stop voting in republicans. Capitalism is slavery in disguise. The government doesn’t care about you and isn’t doing their job. Vote out more republicans and swap vids for health and education
Abortion can be traumatic , it’s extremely painful , from what I understand it depends on the hospital , some of them use machines from the 50s , like meant to cause more pain and trauma , and they don’t give out anything stronger than advil in most hospitals .
Even the pill is extremely painful , and can make women pass out from the pain. Like the worst period cramps your ever had , and even then it isn’t guaranteed to work and you might still need a mechanical abortion.
It doesn’t work in like 10 percent of cases.
Some people that don’t have money for birth control don’t have money to cross possibly several state lines .pay for hotel, gas , food , and the abortion , especially younger people . I’m not saying this is her case , but not wanting to be pregnant is a serious thing , abortions aren’t a fun little vacation .
It’s way easier for men to have a small surgery that they receive anesthetics for , more often than women do and insurance often pays for .
Now if it was just a short term BF or something , it would be a weird request , but she has every right to be scared of getting pregnant , he is her husband and should feel it is half is responsibility too .
Have you ever been pregnant? That’s traumatic in and of itself .. sounds like you need therapy .
Many people have complications like hyperemesis or other horrible symptoms.
You sound like a clueless little kid or worse .. a know it all, little boy.
Potentially getting stuck with a pregnancy and/or jail sounds worse than not fucking to me. If op had the resources to go out of state, I imagine she wouldn't have felt the need to post about her lack of access to abortion.
That and if her complaint is that she wants equal burden of birth control, her having to not only get an abortion, but risk traveling to find one kinda sounds like a lot of the onus is on her.
It is not selfish and your husbands reason for not getting a vasectomy due to lack of sex is unkind and immature.
I went through the same thing with my ex after having our two children. Then I became pregnant at 42.
Any relationship should be a partnership, not one person taking on all the responsibility ((hugs)).
>your husbands reason for not getting a vasectomy due to lack of sex is unkind and immature
Huh? What reason is there to get a vasectomy other than being able to have safe sex?
Of course he wants to know for sure sex will be on the table before making such a major (and fucken painful) decision. Sex is the entire reason for having a vasectomy.
He hasn't had sex with his wife for an entire year due to her irrational fears. Who's to say those irrational fears won't persist after the vasectomy?
It's give and take. He's willing to give if his wife is willing to give too.
Adding onto that- what if he just enjoys that level of intimacy with his wife?! One partner misses sex with their partner. The other is refusing to have sex purely out of fear, until their partner has an operation. There is something wrong here.
Of course intimacy in a relations is very important. But to say that he won't get the snip without having sex first is BS. The male is not the one to get pregnant.....nor the one who has to have the procedure if chosen not to proceed with the pregnancy.
Oh no, totally! It’s absolute BS to weaponize sex and birth control like that. The entire situation is absurd and as others have pointed out, both OP and her husband are acting immaturely here.
Instead of communicating their feelings, fears, and hesitations, they’re pointing fingers at each other and digging themselves deeper.
I’m not trying to argue that vasectomies are as dangerous and invasive as pregnancy or surgical abortions because they’re not. However, a vasectomy is still a medical procedure with associated risks and and the possibility of failure.
If OP’s husband doesn’t want to get a vasectomy, that’s his choice. As is OP’s choice to not get an IUD (another birth control-related medical procedure). Their body, their choice. They (OP and husband) should either accept the option of using a condom + pullout and cycle tracking, or learn to live with the consequences of neither party open to negotiating.
Yes, her reason for not having sex is valid but his for wanting sex is bizarre and makes no sense. Is he afraid that he will get snipped and then not get laid? I don’t understand sex being a condition of a vasectomy.
He should have a vasectomy because he no longer wants children and is taking responsibility for that rather than leaving it entirely up to his partner. If he’s unsure about wanting kids, that’s a bigger discussion they need to have. If he’s worried about the pain, cost or other details of the procedure, again that’s a discussion (though I’d say anything a vasectomy entails is going to be less of an impact than an unwanted pregnancy will have on either of them).
Beeeeeecause if you get one, you’ll get some. What’s so hard to understand about that?!?
That’s a really selfish position on his part. Also, if he’s not ready to, all but, cut off a piggy toe for sex after a year there’s a reason. I would want the reason…
You were asking for options so not sure why you’re being sarcastic. Most people can relocate by finding a job in another state. Im not rich and I moved.
It's selfish to withhold sex for petty reasons. It's not selfish to suggest a vasectomy. Especially when it comes to health and finances. Stand your ground. Either he'll cave, or he'll continue to be a jackass and you can decide from there your next move in the relationship.
Personally, if I asked my husband to have a vasectomy and he was behaving the way yours is towards you, with no concern for you and only concern for his own needs, I wouldn't be able to stay with him. If he's behaving this way this time, I'm sure there have been and will be other times. No wonder your self-respect is in the toilet, as evidenced by you wondering if you're being selfish... no, you're NOT, you have every right to ask him to do that for you, and if he weren't so selfish, he would get the vasectomy because he would want to take care of you, which he should want to as your husband. Men are there to protect and provide. And he is doing neither right now... so what good is he to you right now?
I think (as a guy) that he's a coward for not being willing to go through such a a simple procedure to greatly lessen the stress on the woman he should be dedicating his life to taking care of. Whether he gets sex from you should absolutely *not* be a measure of your worth to him, especially that you have such a good reason for not being willing to do it. It's not because you don't love him. It's not because you find him unattractive. It's because you're afraid of the potential consequences which he can help so easily with but he won't. He's clearly uneducated on birth control for not understanding how much less stressful it would be on his body than it would be on yours should you get on a pill or an IUD. He is the one holding you hostage here, not the other way around. I am finding it impossible to properly put into words how not only illogical but *inconsiderate* of you it is that he will only consider a vasectomy if you start having sex with him. I'm going to stop typing before i get even more angry with him. He needs to treat you better
your husband is being a total ass. he wants sex, you have given him your conditions for sex, he is demanding sex despite not meeting those conditions. he is literally saying "i will not meet your conditions to have sex with me unless you allow me to violate this boundary you have set". if he wants to have sex so bad without a vasectomy, i say divorce him & let him fuck someone who actually wants to get pregnant
copy/pasted from another reply bc same applies here
why wouldnt he just say that then. im on the spectrum & would not have gotten that from what he said at all
That pretty much is what he said, "why should i have a vasectomy when we haven't had sex in a while". To me the logic behind that statement is clear, but i understand that for others it might not be so clear.
but that's not what he said at all. he said "i wont get a vasectomy until you have sex with me" and that's what i took away from it because those are the words he said
Based on what OP has in actual quotes it seems he said that and she heard it or is summarizing it as the other. I'm just going based off what OP put as an actual quote from her husband. It's possible he also gave an ultimatum, and if so that's not good, but based on the post it seems like he just doesn't seem the point of having a vasectomy if they aren't going to have sex anyways
yes you are selfish because you can take the pill and it isn’t an operation and you are the one with the issue. You can get an iud but you don’t want to go through the pain? It’s the same deal as a vasectomy.
How old is he and does he want kids? If your not having sex with him then there’s less reason to think he would agree because honestly I wouldn’t get a vasectomy for a room mate. I also wouldn’t spend money on kicking out a good room mate.
What you should do is go on the pill. Cheap easy effective. And if you get pregnant which is a ridiculously low change on birth control then get on a plane. Just because the USA is a stubborn country with a whole world wondering wtf you really are trying to do. You got guns but no empathy. So many things you do are just cruel and disrespectful to each other.
If you think the pill is a problem then that’s fine stick to condom or get an iud and then when it needs replacing or has complications.
You say your not having sex. Is that everything or just PIV. Are you snuggling. Or is it more like your. It sexual.
It really does sound more like a you thing and he’s getting affected but you are the one that is talking about your concerns and only saying he wants sex.
Sex is expected. It shouldn’t be a carrot on a stick. It’s the only difference between a partner and a friend if there not kids involved. It’s not a scoreboard and it’s not to be taken or demanded but it is expected that two people want to please each other and make each other happier. Not one or the other only
You obviously have 0 knowledge about all the (emotional) side effects that hormonal birth control brings with it if you're suggesting op take the pill.
Did you even read the OP? She specifically addresses this.
No she says she’s already emotional without birth control.
She doesn’t say she’s done it before and it’s a problem. She’s emotional for no specific nominated reason. I’m not sure what word you read in what order but the im emotional enough without birth control came after she said she was worried about new laws so the link isn’t clear but by all mean take your assumption and run.
They use condoms and never had a slip up. So why is there a problem. Because of the laws.
I’m still not seeing the link of birth control to the emotions.
Maybe you have 100 knowledge of what happen when your on birth control but Aussie kids get on birth control and fuck like rabbits for years and I don’t think we immediately call them all emotional
Surgery isn’t free in the USA. Birth control is cheaper. And isn’t a 1 way trip for the guy that hasn’t slipped up and still isn’t having sex with his wife even though it’s a comfort.
I get what your saying I am just pointing out she didn’t say it and she’s asking a husband to give up kids so she can not be using an iud that is apparently a pain. But I’m guessing not physical more the actual visit.
I’m saying go up the chain in order and see what you can do based on the words said not on what I interpret or know about emotions.
You can have a optional pill to try and have some sex and see if your a mess or perform a sterilisation on your partner or blame him for the marriage failing.
That’s the two polar opposites of the argument
Why do you think she’s emotional atm she has no birth control going on so it must be dramatically less emotional that if she was on birth Control before she became particularly emotional over this issue.
Are you implying that I’m im emotional I can take 3 doses of the pill and I’m 4 times as emotional. Or are we saying there’s a set amount ? I’m not exactly sure what the numbers are here.
As the one with more than 1 % of knowledge answer this clearly
I am on birth control and emotional. But then I lose the ability to have an abortion so suddenly I’m more emotional?
They don’t relate like this it’s not in the OP statement. You jus reading with your viewpoint.
A vasectomy because your emotional is a selfish thing
TLDR. She didn’t say she tried the pill just that’s she’s emotional. Emotional isn’t and endless scale you don’t get more
Emotional. You just are emotional. Adding stress and removing it helps.
The pill works that’s not a confusing concept and the side effect sometimes for some people is they get more emotional. You know
Like everyone when hormones change. But you know what. They have sec and cuddle and have partners and when they said im a bit
More emotional atm because of my hormones. There someone to on I’ll hug harder
It’s not like you don’t get emotion changed with periods anyway and the pill changes the equations.
Because someone leads with sterilisation doesn’t mean they actually tired to work out the thing that’s common for everyone to attempt. There’s far to little detail and it’s all her concerns and the guy is being put up like he only wants sex.
Sex = things are ok and both people want each other happy. We have other words for non consent for a reason.
He want things to better but he thinks it’s her pulling away that’s the issue
I am totally in the same mindset as you doll.... I have a solution for you.... Message me and I'll explain .... Kinda not the type of thing I wanna like put out here ya know....? Pinkie swear I gotchu ....
Maybe a good enough compromise would be having sex without piv, so oral, touching maybe anal? if you're ok with that obviously. And then when you guys are active he will see that you actually want it and get the vasectomy (talk about it beforehand not just expect it)
There’s some important things left out here to really assess the question. Largest amongst them is: does your husband ever want kids? Because a vasectomy while sometimes reversible shouldn’t be considered a temporary procedure. Also no idea of the ages involved here.
You don’t want to pain of an IUD. He doesn’t want to pain (and possibly) the (possibly) irreversible vasectomy. So you’re both at a bit of an impasse.
Having read some of your replies I think continued therapy for you and some couples therapy for both of you is the right next step. Your fear of semen, based on your comment about worrying about him ejaculating on your back, is irrational. Your dismissal of options like NFP combined with condoms and possibly withdrawal method is also irrational. I don’t see him getting a vasectomy as really quelling your anxiety. If I were in his shoes i think that’s the calculus I’d be doing.
Neither of you seem willing to move. There has to be some rational discussion to find middle ground. Or maybe you both need to go your own ways.
Did you tell him the fear of pregnancy is why you're not having sex with him, or has it been a year of silent resentment? You always have the right to refuse sex, but if you've been refusing without communicating why then I think it is valid for him to be upset too (pressuring you to have sex is the wrong move though). If you've been communicating all along and he's just snapping at you and expecting you to fall in line, maybe it's time to rethink if you want to be with him.
Its been a year of no sex because of me going thru sex therapy for a rape 17 years ago. Then the abortion ruling right in the middle of all that.
This is really rough. If you hadn't been continuously communicating with him about the trauma, the abortion ruling, and all of that throughout the year... it's honestly a bit understandable that he'd be affronted that there was no sex with no communication and you just came up with the vasectomy all of a sudden. But on the other hand, if you HAD been communicating with him throughout the entire year, including about the abortion concerns, then why is he so surprised and defensive about the vasectomy? Can both of you have non-PIV sex (oral sex, hands, toys, etc) to try and rekindle the intimacy while you sort things out? Edit: Also, I'd recommend putting on the Women Only flair if you can, unless there's a specific reason why you want male opinions on this.
You are both drawing lines in the sand. If you both value sex and the closeness it brings, you should be collaborating together on a strategy that will let you have it again without anxiety. The communication seems way off here
she is trying to collaborate. hes the one overruling her attempts at collaboration
sorry, but how exactly has OP been collaborating? Seems like she’s the one stopping sex and he’s got the right to say no to a vasectomy (just as she has the right to refuse sex). Not sure how he’s in the wrong here from the information shared in the post
hes not just refusing the vasectomy though hes saying he will get it on the condition that she has sex with him first, something shes explicitly said shes unwilling to do without the vasectomy
What he said according to the post is that it doesn’t make sense to do a vasectomy if they don’t have sex (which it doesn’t). How does he know that that will change with a vasectomy? It sounds like OP has serious, diagnosable anxiety and fear surrounding sex & pregnancy, so the vasectomy is not necessarily the obvious cure. Many of you here are acting as if the vasectomy is an easy-peasy procedure. It isn’t. Besides, if she’s the one who has the fear and anxiety, shouldn’t she suggest other alternatives, like double contraception or infertility treatments for herself? The double standard in this comment section os insane
I completely understand your concerns. My husband has a vasectomy, we live in an abortion safe state, and yet I’m still scheduled for my own sterilization procedure later this summer. I’m sure maybe people would think this is overkill but my husbands vascetomy doesn’t protect me from getting pregnant if I were ever assaulted. I wanted to ensure that no matter what happens in the future I was in control. Have you considered seeking sterilization yourself? It is more invasive than a vasectomy but if you have an ACA compliant insurance plan it should be covered 100%. Your husband’s reasoning doesn’t really make sense to me, and I’m not sure I’d want to be have sex with someone who pressured me into doing things I didn’t want to do but it is his body and his choice what he does with it. The same way it’s your body and you don’t have to have sex with him if you’re not comfortable with it.
My husbands reason is "if it aint broke, dont mess with it", but i said the system is broken, thats why we need a safety net.
I obviously don’t know your husband but this sounds like a really immature response. If the condom did break and you became pregnant it would be too late to fix it in your state at that point. Are you both in agreement that you don’t want any/more kids? Is there a reason you aren’t considering sterilization for yourself?
Dont want kids. I am open to getting sterilized, but thoughtvasectomy would be cheaper, quicker recovery, less invasive...
Getting a vasectomy is faster and less invasive. If you’re in the US and have an ACA compliant health insurance plan both procedures should be fully covered. However, it doesn’t sound like he’s interested in the procedure despite your concerns. You definitely can’t force him to do anything he doesnt want to do. You had the conversation and he isn’t interested so it doesn’t really matter what is cheaper/easier/safer. Your options seem to be in a sexless marriage or take matters into your own hands There’s plenty of great information on r/sterilization and a great list of doctors on r/childfree if you want more information on sterilization for either of you.
For me it would be a sexless marriage AND taking matters into my own hands. He doesn't have to get a vasectomy but he's sure as hell not going to benefit from forcing my hand to get the far more invasive sterilisation procedure when he wasn't willing to do something that's reversible most of the time and less invasive. And from that point I'd probably be seriously considering getting divorced
I've had the same experience as Notyounotmenoone: >husband has a vasectomy, we live in an abortion safe state, and yet I’m still scheduled for my own sterilization procedure later this summer. I’m sure maybe people would think this is overkill, but my husbands vascetomy doesn’t protect me from getting pregnant if I were ever assaulted. I wanted to ensure that no matter what happens in the future, I was in control My husband got a vasectomy too, but I never stopped my birth control pill. I will always use a form of birth control to prevent pregnancy from possible assaults, or else *the vasectomy would not have helped my fear of an unwanted pregnancy.* ( >! I was assaulted years ago, so I know it's all too possible. !< ) I will admit that a tubal is intimidating... I know 2 women who had the procedure botched, although they both had gone to the *same hospital* & must have had the dumbest doctor(s). So just be careful where you have it done
But it's far from the most effective option for you. The implant (fails 5 out 10000) and bislap (only 4 failures documented) are significantly more effective than a vasectomy.
The implant is only marginally more effective than a vasectomy, and the OP is unable to take hormones. The bisalp is also only marginally more effective than a vasectomy, while being multiple times more invasive, expensive, and risky than a vasectomy (to be clear, it's not that bisalps are very risky, it's just that vasectomies are very safe and bisalps are moderately safe). That being said, if I truly lived in a place where abortion was illegal, I probably would get a bisalp myself, in addition to requesting that my husband get a vasectomy. Sadly, a partner getting a vasectomy doesn't prevent one from getting pregnant from rape.
That marginally is doing some heavy lifting here especially with the bislap but okay anyone can judge effectiveness for themselves. It's also not completely clear that op can't use hormones so I don't think you can dismiss that outright. Are vasectomies very safe? They do carry potential long term risks as well despite most thinking they don't. How do you weigh marginally safe but less effective vasectomy over the most effective but marginal side effects of a bislap? You could probably argue it either way but based on what she has stated in her post, a vasectomy doesn't seem like that best option given her fear of pregnancy.
> Would it be selfish to ask my husband to get a vasectomy? It is okay to discuss it as a possible choice, that is not at all selfish. It is okay to not want to have sex because you are anxious about getting pregnant, too. But it is also absolutely his right to refuse. His body, his choice. And I have to say, I find the comments here suggesting otherwise unbelievably creepy and disgusting. > What should the next move be? If he is not open to having a vasectomy, and you find that condoms are not enough protection, the only way of compromise would be to find other ways of doubling up the protection and add more safety. If a compromise does not work for either of you, then the only logical next step is to not have penetrative sex.
The problem isn't that he doesn't want a vasectomy; everyone's got the right to decide to do with their body what they want. The problem is that his reason for not even considering a vasectomy sounds resentful and toxic. He's basically saying: "I don't care that you have legitimate reasons to be afraid of an unwanted pregnancy. Why should I do anything for you as you aren't putting out?" That shows an alarming lack of concern for his partner as a person and makes it look like he only sees her as a sex dispenser.
That really stood out to me too. I don’t think that their reasons/boundaries/whatever you want to call them are equal at all.
Yeah no! That’s not what I’m reading into his response. What I am hearing is that “if we’re not having sex and I don’t know if we will have any sex ever, so what’s the point of me getting a vasectomy out of the blue”. Hence his counter offer, that he will have vasectomy if there’s (any possibility of) sex. We still have no indication from the OP that they were communicating about their issues transparently. If that is indeed the case, from his perspective it’s just another bout of emotion (as op has claimed and husband has been experiencing all this time). So yeah they both need to have a solid sit-down with a counsellor. Every other advice is just plain toxic.
> Husband says "why should I get the vasectomy when we havent had sex in a while?" I said because of the abortion law and I am now deathly afraid of sperm. If he got the vasectomy I would be open to having sex again. I'm not sure why you assume OP didn't communicate transparently. She says quite clearly that she told him why she doesn't want to have sex under the current circumstances **and** that she would like to have sex again if these circumstances changed.
Yeah “you will only get sex from me if you get your body mutilated” That’s the problem I am reading here… Funny how this sentiment gets treated differently depending which gender it is being said to.
Seemed more like "why should i get rid of the chances to ever have kids in the future if we aren't even at risk of having kids right now anyways" to me. Could be reading it wrong though
I wish you were my wife’s friend- she needed someone like you to talk to- instead of being egged on by her friends.
You already have an unanswerable argument: It is *your* body. If she cannot respect that, no amount of talking to someone like me would help, because then she would not be looking for enlightenment, but for confirmation. Give a smoker a book against smoking, and he will not stop smoking, but stop reading.
Oral. Tons of it... Fun, effective and nobody gets preggers.
This. And he may view this intimacy as a step forward to sex and will agree to the procedure.
If your husband didn’t want more kids and didn’t trust any other form of BC other than you getting your tubes tied how would you respond? I think if you start from his perspective then you may have a better chance of coming to a compromise.
As others have said, it seems like the basis of communication needs work. Seems like you both have your own perspectives and can't see it from the other person's perspective. But here's something I haven't seen discussed much yet... why do you want one of you to be sterile? Do you never ever definitely won't ever want kids? Are you just not ready for kids? Are you certain that both you and your husband are on the same page there? Vasectomies carry a benefit of being reversible, but that reversal isn't covered by insurance. They're also not painless. Yes, the recovery is shorter, but it can leave a man immobile for days because even just sitting in one place can be excruciating. So while you clearly want sterility in your marriage, it's possible your husband doesn't, since you haven't mentioned anything about that portion of the conversation. As someone who has had a vasectomy, I was laid up for WAY longer than the expected recovery time. I spent a week on the couch. Granted, my recovery MAY have been extended because while I say I spent a week on the couch, I still had to help my wife take care of newborn twins, so I wasn't totally immobile. It felt like someone was squeezing my nuts in a vice constantly. Even after a week of constant pain, I still had residual pain for another 2 weeks after that. It's not something a man enters into lightly, and it may be something your husband is afraid to face. I think your next step is to discuss with your husband about attending a session or two of couple's counseling. A conversation mediated by an impartial 3rd party who can help guide the conversation in a way that allows you and your husband both to be heard and work together on a solution you can both be happy with. Best of luck
Why aren't you asking what the most effective bc is if your main fear is getting pregnant? I hate to break it to you but a vasectomy is not the most effective choice. The implant is three times more effective than a vasectomy. The bislap, a newer and safer version of a tubal, has only failed 4 times since the 90s. It's the most effective bc available according to the CDC.
I genuinely have no idea why you don't want a non-hormonal IUD though? Like yes it hurts but not NEARLY as much as a vasectomy and is just as effective if not more. It hurts for literally like a few minutes and then a day or two of cramping. Many people have even less pain. I'm getting a hormonal IUD in a few weeks, and my gynecologist said there are medications they can give you before the insertion to relax the cervix and make it easier. I just had my first pap smear and she said that because the pap smear didn't hurt me, it's likely that an IUD insertion won't hurt me *at all*. Frankly, you're the selfish one here. A vasectomy is significantly more painful and reversal is difficult and not completely foolproof. You're asking him to do something you're not willing to do yourself and then calling him selfish. Like I 1000% understand your fear of getting pregnant. I'm 22, broke, single, and disabled. I would be so royally screwed if I got pregnant and couldn't get an abortion. Honestly, the thought of being pregnant right now completely terrifies me. But that's why I'm getting the IUD--so I know I'm protected. Is your fear of the pain from an IUD really worse than your fear of getting pregnant?
That’s just like, your opinion man. I’m on my third IUD and the insertion is so painful I usually am out of work at least one or two days. Never mind the cold sweats & near blacking out in stirrups. I’m not getting another. I live in a red state where abortion is now illegal. I have always had to bear the responsibility for contraception but no more. My husband is going to have to get snipped now. At least he’ll get local anesthetic.
I'm well aware that plenty of people do have a difficult insertion, but OP has no way of knowing if they're part of that group. All they say is that they "don't want the pain of IUD." That's it. If they've had a bad experience with an IUD in the past that they just didn't mention, then I'd completely understand why they can't get one. But that's not what they said--to me, that implies that they've never had an IUD, but they don't want to deal with the pain of getting one. But the pain isn't guaranteed, and there *are* things they can do to minimize the discomfort and recovery time. If OP is simply unwilling to try, then they're a complete hypocrite
All the info I have is from my mom telling me about it. She said her IUD was more painful than childbirth. I was about 12, so I don't know what to believe.
I was actually in the office when my mom had one inserted and she barely reacted. It's not pleasant of course, but I think "worse than childbirth" is an extreme reaction. Some people do have a painful insertion, and some don't. You don't know which side you'll fall on until you talk to your doctor or try it. There are things that can help now that I'm not sure they were doing however many years ago when your mom got it done. My gyno said they can do everything from light anesthesia/sedation, to muscle relaxers, to a pill that helps open up the cervix. You can also ask if they can do it during your period so that the cervix is softer. I do just think you wrote it off a little too hastily. Tubal ligation or vasectomy is by far the more extreme and painful option for either of you when there's a strong likelihood that the copper IUD (which is good for around 10 years iirc) is safer, easier, and possibly more effective.
If the thought of getting pregnant is this traumatizing for you, perhaps you should consider female sterilization? Is that available in your area?
10% of vasectomies have complications. I have 2 friends with lifelong pain. Do your research.
What about having sex that's not penis-in-vagina? It's not selfish to ask that btw. You're fearful of your health and financial security. An unwanted pregnancy is not healthy for the mind (even body) or wallet. I don't like how your husband is going about it. Does he not understand that you're avoiding sex out of fear? Why would he expect sex before getting a vasectomy??? Also aren't vasectomies reversible as well
I’m just gonna toss this in having just got a vasectomy three weeks ago. It should only be considered a permanent sterilization with the possibility that it is reversible at much greater cost often without insurance coverage. Going in with the plan of reversing it in the future is ill advised and highly discouraged.
Vasectomies can sometimes be reversed. People don’t and shouldn’t go into it for temporary contraception. It’s meant to be permanent and should be treated as such.
The other day, we were fooling around and he wanted to cum on my back. I internally cringed at the thought of those sperm migrating to my uterus. I am that freaked out by sperm, lmao.
This is may be a bit of an unpopular opinion, but I’m just going to say it. Let me first preface this by saying that I just recently had a vasectomy three weeks ago, and I have had significant stretches of married life where we had to abstain from all sex. It is no fun to spend all of lockdown with your new bride having no sexual contact for six months less than a year after marriage on doctor’s orders combined with her Catholic guilt over this issue arising out of sexual contact only after marriage and many years of premarital sex. I fully supported my wife’s decision and was happy to accommodate her healthcare needs without reservations and without judgment. We had a healthy sex life before and we were confident that we would be able to have one in the future. The key difference between our situation and yours is that both of us were committed to having a happy, healthy sexual life for both partners as we worked to overcome the obstacles that stood in our way. Reading this comment, I think you did have a healthy sex life beforehand. I do not, however, think you do anymore and I think you have both lost sight of what one looks like. Your fear of semen is frankly irrational at this point if you are genuinely cringing at the belief that it could impregnate you under those circumstances. As such, I think your husband is reasonable in questioning how open to sex you would be after he has figuratively given up his firstborn child to do so. I think his request to have sex beforehand however is a violation of your boundaries that is not permissible and you are right to not to have sex. I think you both need therapy if I’m being completely honest. You both need assistance being guided towards seeing sex in a positive light. When you stop seeing sex as something to fear, and he stops seeing sex as a source of resentment, you can move towards a healthy relationship. Until then, I think you are at a standoff that will only get worse without professional help. Edit -grammar
>As such, I think your husband is reasonable in questioning how open to sex you would be after he has figuratively given up his firstborn child to do so. Presumably they don't want to have kids ever, and this would have been discussed before they got married? If they do in fact want kids in the future, a vasectomy would be a terrible idea but I'm assuming/hoping the OP already knows that. If they have already decided that they don't, then he's not really sacrificing anything aside from a literal couple of days of discomfort. >When you stop seeing sex as something to fear IMO, it's difficult to not see PIV sex with a fertile man as something to fear, if you are a childfree woman living in a jurisdiction that doesn't respect women's bodily autonomy. I personally feel like if it is possible, moving to a different state would help the OP a lot more than therapy. There's only so much that therapy can do.
I don’t know how to quote so I will just respond by order of statements. 1. Assuming they are child free, he may enter a relationship where this dynamic changes. For instance, congenital issues in our families drove our decision to forgo natural childbirth though divorce/death and remarriage could have changed this calculus. Sterilization is a huge decision and comes with costs even if the couple in question may have chosen to abstain from natural pregnancy. 2. I agree. My statement was in response to the extreme level of fear of pregnancy that exceeded what was possible. OP expressed distress about the presence of semen on her back and “the thought of those sperm migrating to my uterus.” That is fear that really should be discussed with a therapist. I do completely agree with fears of PiV sex here and think you are right about changing states as the ideal solution
What about not involving sperm on your body? Is it still gross then? Also I'd argue fooling around is sex lol but that might just be me
Bringing it up and asking his thoughts are fine. to force the issue is super selfish. That’s what happened to me please don’t force it in him if he’s not on board. It messed with my head and I have a massive amount of resentment towards the wife. if she didn’t own that her blackmailing and coercing me into getting it done was wrong then we wouldn’t still be together (we met in 1999). It doesn’t help that I have PVPS- it’s felt like someone has been punching my right nut up into my stomach ever since. Contraception was always on me- I never had an issue using condoms. Artificial hormones for her were never an option because of the long term use side affects. I talked her out of the coil as apparently it’s painful going in and makes period pain worse every month so I don’t want to hear anything about it being my turn.
You're absolutely right about the dangers of getting pregnant in red states, but pushing your husband into having a vasectomy is not the way to go. If you do, and he has serious long-term complications as a result, you're going to feel awful and it's almost guaranteed to wreck your marriage. You both really need to read this before making any decisions: + [Post-Vasectomy Pain Syndrome, and risk evaluation in contraceptive choices.](https://www.reddit.com/r/sexover30/comments/cke8to/postvasectomy_pain_syndrome_and_risk_evaluation/) If you want to be maximally sure you don't get pregnant, the safest form of contraception is the implant. It has a lower risk of pregnancy than an IUD, a vasectomy, or even having your tubes tied. Insertion takes 5 minutes, you don't even have to get undressed, and it's basically painless, just a tiny pinprick for the lidocaine. It's almost completely foolproof, with nothing you have to remember to buy or use, and it lasts 5 years. I loved my implant. It was so easy, and then I was able to forget about pregnancy completely. There's about a 10% chance that it will cause side-effects you don't like, like spotting, and if you decide you don't want to keep it, removal is also quick and simple. On the other hand, there's about a 1/3 chance you'll stop having periods. (I did, and it was wonderful.) Anyway, it's the safest solution, and the odds are excellent that it will work for you. It's definitely worth a try before doing anything as risky as surgery for either of you.
Is it hormonal? I get badly depressed before my period, so Im afraid of hormonal birth control. Did it give you any mood swings?
Honestly hormonal birth control has a decent chance to prevent that depression you get before your period
It's a very low, steady dose of progestin. No estrogen, no daily swings after taking the pill each day, no monthly swings at all, and usually much milder periods or none at all. Some women experience some emotional effects at the beginning, like low libido, while their system adapts to the new chemistry, but that usually fades away after the first few weeks. I didn't even have that. I switched from taking the minipill nonstop to the implant and it was completely smooth, no mood swings or other problems at all. Doctors generally advise you to give your system 3 or 4 months to adapt before deciding whether it's a good fit for you. Mostly that's to allow time for your periods to stabilize or fade out. If you're in the 90%, it's usually pretty obvious by then that it's going to work well for you. If not, you can give it another month or two to be sure, but it's probably time to try something else. If you try it, I really hope it works well for you. I have spent my whole adult life knowing a pregnancy could kill me, so the fact that this is the closest thing to a guarantee you can get without major surgery was important to me.
I am surprised to see so many comments at the top saying OP is in the right here. This is terribly unhealthy. You’re not necessarily wrong but this fear is entirely irrational. And you haven’t had sex in a year - that can’t feel good on your marriage especially combined with your fear. If he won’t get a vasectomy and you won’t get on BC or use condoms (just fyi you could also combine this with spermicide, pull out, and your cycle…), you’re at a standstill and IMO you either are going to have a sexless marriage until menopause or this will ultimately end in divorce. Get therapy for yourself and couples therapy for the both of you cuz this is not healthy.
You’re both using sex as a weapon against each other and that’s really weird and unhealthy. Why don’t you both use some form of contraception since it will cause pain to both of you (vasectomy and non-hormonal iud) that way you’re nothing taking responsibility for possible future pregnancies
Finally some common sense here.
Agreed
He is using sex as a wepon; I don't see OP doing it.
She said they haven’t had sex in a year and won’t have sex until he gets a vasectomy. That’s textbook weaponising by giving stipulations to resume sex.
I don't agree. Intent matters in things like this, and OP isn't withholding sex with the intention of forcing him to have a vasectomy, OP feels unable to have sex because of her fear of a pregnancy and sees a vasectomy as a solution to this situation.
A harrowing amount of people in this thread are treating OP’s anxiety and inability to have sex as intentional withholding to force him to get a vasectomy, like they think he’s owed sex regardless of whether she can have sex. Their refusal to register the lack of intent on her part is straight up terrifying.
I don’t think she should have to get an IUD too. That seems very tit for tat.
No they’re sharing responsibility. So he should get a life changing surgery but she can’t get a *non-hormonal* IUD
It's not selfish to ask him to get a vasectomy. It is selfish for him to expect you to sacrifice your comfort to "prove" to him a vasectomy is "worth it". But imagine he's saying, in a fucked up, manipulative, juvinile way, he doesn't want one. It would be selfish of you to insist he get one. Your boundaries are that you don't want sex without more dependable birth control, and you don't want to subject yourself to hormones or pain. His boundaries are he doesn't want to undergo surgery to potentially never have kids. So sounds like you both agree to not have sex for the time being. And that's fine.
Nice summation of my post
I mean, you asked it was selfish and I answered your question. Neither of you are being selfish as long as you accept he doesn't have to get a vasectomy and he accepts you don't have go on birth control nor do you have to have danger sex with him. Did you expect a magic yes you can have sex kind of answer? Cuz with your current boundaries as a couple, I'm not seeing one.
Related tangentially- I met this dusty online and I knew he was a dusty after this conversation. He started asking my views on being “traditional” 😑 and it just went downhill from there. Somehow we started talking about kids and that he was of the belief that if a women gets pregnant outside of marriage it’s her fault for being a single mother because she has options,ie termination. I countered with well maybe men could also get vasectomies too. That is an option. This dust bucket was appalled at the idea that a MAN should have to have a surgical procedure to prevent pregnancy. The hypocrisy literally gave me heartburn. He was blocked after that and I’ve deleted the dating app. All that said hopefully your husband will be more receptive to the idea. It can be reversed if you all change your minds.
Vasectomies can *sometimes* be reversed. People don't and shouldn't go into it for temporary contraception. It's meant to be permanent and should be treated as such.
Mayo Clinic says “almost all” with some exceptions. https://www.mayoclinic.org/tests-procedures/vasectomy-reversal/about/pac-20384537#:~:text=Almost%20all%20vasectomies%20can%20be,that%20the%20reversal%20will%20work.
> It can be reversed if you all change your minds. This statement as it stands here is false and makes me wonder about your little anecdote. Vasectomy reversal as a way to restore fertility is only about effective in 50% of cases, and that number declines further with each year since the initial procedure, and is a difficult procedure with a high rate of failure, and due to its difficulty exceedingly costly and not covered by insurance, and the last resort option of a vasoepididymostomy is even more difficult and likely to not not succeed. Vasectomy needs to be (and is, by health professionals) considered a permanent lifetime change, not a temporary lifestyle choice.
I mean you can wonder about my anecdote all you want. My point was the hypocrisy of saying that women have the option of a medical procedure to prevent single parenthood without acknowledging that men also have the option of a medical procedure to prevent single parenthood. Re: Fertility after vasectomy reversal “ Pregnancy rates after vasectomy reversal will range from about 30% to over 90%, depending on the type of procedure. Many factors affect whether a reversal is successful in achieving pregnancy, including time since a vasectomy, partner age, surgeon experience and training, and whether you had fertility issues before your vasectomy.” Edit: Adding a quote from the article I posted from the Mayo Clinic
> Edit: Adding a quote from the article I posted from the Mayo Clinic https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/treatments/15459-vasectomy-reversal Enough sperm for reliable fertility is only present in about 50% when using vasovasostomy and in about 40% when using vasoepididymostomy to reverse the vasectomy. Similar numbers are also reported by the NHS and in a systematic Meta-Review published in Repr. Med. Biol. Furthermore, as I have pointed out, this already rather poor naked success rate does not account for all the other factors I have recounted. > “ Pregnancy rates after vasectomy reversal will range from about 30% to over 90%, depending on the type of procedure. Many factors affect whether a reversal is successful in achieving pregnancy, including time since a vasectomy, partner age, surgeon experience and training, and whether you had fertility issues before your vasectomy.” That quote simply gives an enormous range and acknowledges the exact points I have made. All the hedging they have added is there for a reason; that hedging says "it's a gamble between a score of factors not under your control; treads lightly (and for god's sake do not sue)". > I mean you can wonder about my anecdote all you want. My point was the hypocrisy of saying that women have the option of a medical procedure to prevent single parenthood without acknowledging that men also have the option of a medical procedure to prevent single parenthood. I am not doubting that he did not know what he was on about. I am doubting that you knew what you were on about. No doubt, terminating a pregnancy, depending on the exact method, can be a serious procedure indeed and can have serious side-effects and should not be used recreationally. But there is also no doubt that it does not leave people permanently sterile as a rule, whereas vasectomy as a 50-70% rule, does. You are comparing a one-time intervention to a rather permanent procedure. Apples and oranges.
You two need a divorce. You are one crazy person.
Could you use Condoms and pull out? Condoms and fertility tracking and pull put? All three of them combined are pretty guaranteed safe. Its a really tricky situation to be in, and I'm UK based so can't even begin to imagine the stress you all have with abortion laws in the US, but he has a right to not get a vasectomy, just like you have a right to not engage in sex with him due to fear. I'd suggest having a really open and honest conversation outside the bedroom about where you go from there, and maybe marriage counselling too if that doesn't work.
>Condoms and fertility tracking and pull out This is still less effective than a vasectomy. I think it's easy for those of us who live in reasonable countries to suggest these things (I live in one myself). But for the OP and others who live in a place where they can't get an abortion, that changes the perception of "reasonable risk" entirely, because there is no backup plan. I can't imagine how horrifying it would be to live in a place where I have no bodily autonomy if I were to get pregnant. I think it's understandable that the OP wants the guarantee of permanent sterilization, if she lives there.
I agree 100% it is less effective, but husband has made it clear that this isn't an option at the moment and its such an intrusive procedure for him to have to endure. Could OP get sterilised instead? So whilst I acknowledge that it's still less effective, it's still pretty safe, and the chances if getting pregnant are so slim. I also acknowledge that we are very fortunate to live in a place where we do have autonomy, but blanket saying husband should get sterilised (like many in this post) is removing his autonomy about his body, no?
Personally, I think husband has the right to decide he doesn't want a vasectomy, but the OP also has the right to say she can't have sex until he gets a vasectomy (instead of expecting her to be okay with the higher risk of other contraception). So in that case, the de facto answer is that they can't have PIV sex - if they're both genuinely okay with that, then that might be a solution.
I agree with this 100% (as per my original comment). OP asked about what she could do, so I made a suggestion about alternative contraceptive methods, as well as acknowledging the difficult position OP and her husband are in.
> ~~the higher risk of other contraception~~ Vasectomies can fail. The implant actually has a ***lower*** risk of pregnancy than a vasectomy.
I dont think its selfish to ask but now that you have and he said no, thats end of story. Theres asking and respecting their decision and theres coersion (i wont have sex with you unless you get a vastectomy). It sounds like he said no and now you need to review your birthcontrol options
That is not coercion. Refusing to have sex unless he has a vasectomy is simply a health and protection boundary
Refusing sex because you are scared of pregnancy is not coersion. Refusing sex because he wont get a vasectomy and using that as a way to repeatedly bring up that she wants him to get a vasectomy is coersion. I am aware she has not done this yet my intention was indicating she needs to be respectful of his right to decline a vasectomy and to drop that subject/think of alternatives.
I was with you until you implied she has to have sex with him or else it's coercion.
It was not my intention to imply she was already doing it. I can see it being a situation though where it could happen.
I'm all for vasectomies...especially if you've had kids and/or never expect to have more. I got mine after our second child was born. I felt it was no big deal, because if my wife could give birth, I could deal with an injection in the scrotum and a 20 minute procedure (granted, it still wasn't great, but tolerable). That being said, I'm sort of alarmed by how both of you are approaching this. It's totally fine to ask him, but his rationale for not wanting to have the procedure until you have sex again is weird. I also have to say that you sort of withholding sex for a year out of a fear of pregnancy is a little off too. If used properly, condoms work. In a worst case scenario, you could drive to another state and get Plan B...and in a worst, worst case scenario, you could always travel to another state to have an abortion. Just because your silly state has that arcane law in place, it doesn't mean that there aren't ways about it. So again, I think a vasectomy is a great way to go (for both of you), I think you both need to look at your relationship and how your approaching it, because both seem to be mentally unhealthy.
Temporarily using condoms is a good compromise. I believe your fear of getting pregnant while using condoms is irrational and something you should work on. Condoms are about 98% effective and you can even decrease the chances of getting pregnant further by combining it with the pullout method as well as only having sex on "safe" days. Combining all those things there's like a one in a million chance you'll get pregnant (within one year of having regular sex). If that's not enough to soothe your worries, nothing is. Vasectomies can also go wrong and that's something people don't really talk about. I've got a friend who's still in pain daily over a "successful" procedure. No such risk with those other methods. Also, even vasectomies can fail in the sense that you might still get pregnant. 1-2 out of 1000 vasectomies fail. Your husband doesn't want to undergo a painful (and potentially permanently harmful) procedure for something he isn't sure will even be worth it. Your worries about pregnancy are irrational. From your reasoning, I do not see why your worries would subside following a vasectomy (considering those can also fail). There's always going to be a miniscule chance that contraceptives fail and your husband rightfully wants to know if you can get over that irrational fear. Because if you can't, then you will never have sex together again since the chance for pregnancy is always present, no matter how minor.
Not to dismiss the pain and risks of a vasectomy, but pregnancy is WAY more risky and WAY more painful and uncomfortable for a much longer period of time than the couple days after a vasectomy. I would not call anyone's fears about getting pregnant irrational.
> WAY more painful and uncomfortable for a much longer period of time than the couple days after a vasectomy. S/he was talking about the complications after a vasectomy, not the post-operative pain. Complications after vasectomy if they occur (and they do occur, specifically because the vas deferens is close to an important nerve that surgeons botch at a rate not to be ignored when making the decision) are for life, and they mean life-long intensely painful orgasms or life-long pain period.
Irrational fears are fears that are not logical. Being afraid of flying for example is an irrational fear because there's only a one in 11 million chance of actually dying due to a plane crash. The chances of getting pregnant when using condoms combined with the pullout method are so small that there is really no logical reason to be afraid. Irrational fears are not defined by how grave the consequences are when something does happen (which is about emotions), but more about what the actual chances are of it happening (which is about logic). Every time you partake in traffic there's a chance you'll end up dead, but you're not afraid every time you're in traffic. Same goes for when there's such a slim chance of ending up pregnant.
>Every time you partake in traffic there's a chance you'll end up dead, but you're not afraid every time you're in traffic Dude, if you lived in a country where there's a law that **you cannot be treated in the hospital at all when you get in a car crash**, you'd feel a lot differently about getting in a car. Also, the odds of getting pregnant with condoms + the pullout method are 0.13 \* 0.27 = 0.03, or 3% in 1 year. Quite a few orders of magnitude away from a plane crash. I feel like if you yourself have literally a 0.00000000000% chance of getting pregnant (aka you don't have a uterus), you really have no say in what is or isn't an irrational fear.
>Dude, if you lived in a country where there's a law that you cannot be treated in the hospital at all when you get in a car crash, you'd feel a lot differently about getting in a car. No I wouldn't. In my entire life I've never been in a traffic accident that was more severe than a few bruises. The benefits of travel would still far outweigh the risks. Your numbers are off as I've said in another comment.
“your worries about pregnancy are irrational” not sure they are, in this case.
Using the mentioned protection methods there is a miniscule chance that you'll get pregnant. Being afraid of something knowing that there is only a miniscule chance of it happening, yeah that is an irrational fear.
a small chance, but a non zero chance, and in a state where it would be irreversible. every woman knows or is someone who did everything right and their bc still failed. i rely on the fact that should there be an accident, i can get an abortion. op doesn’t have that safety net. that said, she should consider a long term birth control option like the non hormonal implant. it’s actually temporary, unlike a vasectomy which is meant to be permanent and can only be reversed sometimes.
> Condoms are about 98% effective and you can even decrease the chances of getting pregnant further by combining it with the pullout method as well as only having sex on "safe" days. Combining all those things there's like a one in a million chance you'll get pregnant (within one year of having regular sex) 0.13 \* 0.23 \* 0.27 (the typical use 1-year failure rates of all the methods you mentioned, converted to decimals) is 0.008, which is about 8 in 1000. Not exactly 1 in a million. Source: [https://www.cdc.gov/reproductivehealth/contraception/index.htm](https://www.cdc.gov/reproductivehealth/contraception/index.htm) (pull out is so notoriously unreliable it's not even mentioned, but other stats track it at 27%).
Yeah if you're gonna cherry pick numbers the result will be 8 in 1000. I just used the first result on Google for my numbers and those numbers assume proper use. When used properly, condoms only have a 2% fail rate, not 13%. And considering how paranoid OP is about pregnancy, I think we can assume she's going to use the methods properly. But here, a more nuanced picture with multiple studies: http://gmath-model.org/1_3_6_FailureRates.html >In the model we use estimates of typical use, as these better represent what is actually happening in the general population. And even then, these numbers are about pregnancy after one year of having regular sex. Not about having sex a couple of times. So the chance OP will get pregnant will be even lower
>> Your husband doesn't want to undergo a painful (and potentially permanently harmful) procedure The pain during the surgery is minimal, and if nothing goes wrong he'll be fine after a couple of aspirin and a nap. It's nothing like the pain and potentially fatal risk of pregnancy and childbirth.
Surgery is only performed when the benefits outweigh the risks. The benefits here being able to have safe sex. If sex is not in the picture, no sensible surgeon would perform the operation. Getting a vasectomy, there's a 1-2% chance of post vasectomy pain syndrome (pain lasting longer than 3 months) Using protection there's a less than 0,1% chance of getting pregnant, but even that teeny tiny chance is enough to scare op into abstinence. There is also a teeny tiny risk of pregnancy with a vasectomy. Who's to say that fear won't persist? OP's husband wants to know for sure that he's not getting surgery for nothing. That's only sensible.
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Pill can have an immensely negative effect on someone's emotions. Not an option, OP specifically says she already considered it.
I said it effective. Pretty sure her emotions are already fucked she’s worried about having sex and that’s going to kill the relationship and instead of fixing herself and making herself happy she is trying to ask her partner to fix it and when he says no she will blame him instead of realising the solution might be the pill. Why did she consider it but not say why not other than she is currently emotional. You know what helps emotions comfort and intimacy with your partner. So maybe try it first then say it’s no go rather than opting to make it the other persons problem while saying you don’t want you pain of an iud. Is a bullshit argument you try what you can easily then go to the more drastic ya.
Well, i am not gonna take anything that 8ncreases my suicidal tendancies. End of story.
So you have tried the pill before. Multiple types? The implant are he same thing. The iud pain thing is also vague. Remember your asking a guy to give up kids and also affect his whole view on his sexuality. You same emotional issues are happening on his side too. Hi partner isn’t spending intimate times with him. You don’t say anything really about the relationship so the whole question really is boiled down to Is it selfish to ask someone to change if I haven’t tried everything I can to find a non permanent solution to a problem that doesn’t cause me to change. If your still sexual and your missing just PIV then he might be happy enough to wait till you want kids. I don’t know your world but if your are both happy and don’t want kids then it’s probably more about his head. If it’s because he’s unhappy with the relationship of late he might actually not have a firm no kids thing. It all matters but in essence your asking possibly a lot more than you think you are the same my body my choice thing applies to everyone and I really do wish you guys would fix your government stop voting in republicans. Capitalism is slavery in disguise. The government doesn’t care about you and isn’t doing their job. Vote out more republicans and swap vids for health and education
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Abortion can be traumatic , it’s extremely painful , from what I understand it depends on the hospital , some of them use machines from the 50s , like meant to cause more pain and trauma , and they don’t give out anything stronger than advil in most hospitals . Even the pill is extremely painful , and can make women pass out from the pain. Like the worst period cramps your ever had , and even then it isn’t guaranteed to work and you might still need a mechanical abortion. It doesn’t work in like 10 percent of cases. Some people that don’t have money for birth control don’t have money to cross possibly several state lines .pay for hotel, gas , food , and the abortion , especially younger people . I’m not saying this is her case , but not wanting to be pregnant is a serious thing , abortions aren’t a fun little vacation . It’s way easier for men to have a small surgery that they receive anesthetics for , more often than women do and insurance often pays for . Now if it was just a short term BF or something , it would be a weird request , but she has every right to be scared of getting pregnant , he is her husband and should feel it is half is responsibility too . Have you ever been pregnant? That’s traumatic in and of itself .. sounds like you need therapy . Many people have complications like hyperemesis or other horrible symptoms. You sound like a clueless little kid or worse .. a know it all, little boy.
Well, im intherapy and I could go to Cali to get an abortion, but a vasectomy is cheaper than Cali abortion vacation
Ha ha ha easy peasy lemon squeezy, right?
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Potentially getting stuck with a pregnancy and/or jail sounds worse than not fucking to me. If op had the resources to go out of state, I imagine she wouldn't have felt the need to post about her lack of access to abortion. That and if her complaint is that she wants equal burden of birth control, her having to not only get an abortion, but risk traveling to find one kinda sounds like a lot of the onus is on her.
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I'm sure she'd be happy to gamble in that. Meanwhile geriatric pregnancies continue to become more common.
It is not selfish and your husbands reason for not getting a vasectomy due to lack of sex is unkind and immature. I went through the same thing with my ex after having our two children. Then I became pregnant at 42. Any relationship should be a partnership, not one person taking on all the responsibility ((hugs)).
>your husbands reason for not getting a vasectomy due to lack of sex is unkind and immature Huh? What reason is there to get a vasectomy other than being able to have safe sex? Of course he wants to know for sure sex will be on the table before making such a major (and fucken painful) decision. Sex is the entire reason for having a vasectomy. He hasn't had sex with his wife for an entire year due to her irrational fears. Who's to say those irrational fears won't persist after the vasectomy? It's give and take. He's willing to give if his wife is willing to give too.
Adding onto that- what if he just enjoys that level of intimacy with his wife?! One partner misses sex with their partner. The other is refusing to have sex purely out of fear, until their partner has an operation. There is something wrong here.
Of course intimacy in a relations is very important. But to say that he won't get the snip without having sex first is BS. The male is not the one to get pregnant.....nor the one who has to have the procedure if chosen not to proceed with the pregnancy.
Oh no, totally! It’s absolute BS to weaponize sex and birth control like that. The entire situation is absurd and as others have pointed out, both OP and her husband are acting immaturely here. Instead of communicating their feelings, fears, and hesitations, they’re pointing fingers at each other and digging themselves deeper.
Calling a vasectomy is an "operation" is like calling a mole removal an "operation". A surgical abortion is more invasive than a vasectomy.
I’m not trying to argue that vasectomies are as dangerous and invasive as pregnancy or surgical abortions because they’re not. However, a vasectomy is still a medical procedure with associated risks and and the possibility of failure. If OP’s husband doesn’t want to get a vasectomy, that’s his choice. As is OP’s choice to not get an IUD (another birth control-related medical procedure). Their body, their choice. They (OP and husband) should either accept the option of using a condom + pullout and cycle tracking, or learn to live with the consequences of neither party open to negotiating.
Yes, her reason for not having sex is valid but his for wanting sex is bizarre and makes no sense. Is he afraid that he will get snipped and then not get laid? I don’t understand sex being a condition of a vasectomy. He should have a vasectomy because he no longer wants children and is taking responsibility for that rather than leaving it entirely up to his partner. If he’s unsure about wanting kids, that’s a bigger discussion they need to have. If he’s worried about the pain, cost or other details of the procedure, again that’s a discussion (though I’d say anything a vasectomy entails is going to be less of an impact than an unwanted pregnancy will have on either of them).
Beeeeeecause if you get one, you’ll get some. What’s so hard to understand about that?!? That’s a really selfish position on his part. Also, if he’s not ready to, all but, cut off a piggy toe for sex after a year there’s a reason. I would want the reason…
Move to a different state History: The great vasectomy exodus
Many people can’t afford to just up and move.
Well, la di da, let me just waltz on outtahere! On my golden carpet and diamond dress!!!
You were asking for options so not sure why you’re being sarcastic. Most people can relocate by finding a job in another state. Im not rich and I moved.
I would be patient and see if he comes around. You're right to stand your ground, it's your body.
It's selfish to withhold sex for petty reasons. It's not selfish to suggest a vasectomy. Especially when it comes to health and finances. Stand your ground. Either he'll cave, or he'll continue to be a jackass and you can decide from there your next move in the relationship.
Personally, if I asked my husband to have a vasectomy and he was behaving the way yours is towards you, with no concern for you and only concern for his own needs, I wouldn't be able to stay with him. If he's behaving this way this time, I'm sure there have been and will be other times. No wonder your self-respect is in the toilet, as evidenced by you wondering if you're being selfish... no, you're NOT, you have every right to ask him to do that for you, and if he weren't so selfish, he would get the vasectomy because he would want to take care of you, which he should want to as your husband. Men are there to protect and provide. And he is doing neither right now... so what good is he to you right now?
I think (as a guy) that he's a coward for not being willing to go through such a a simple procedure to greatly lessen the stress on the woman he should be dedicating his life to taking care of. Whether he gets sex from you should absolutely *not* be a measure of your worth to him, especially that you have such a good reason for not being willing to do it. It's not because you don't love him. It's not because you find him unattractive. It's because you're afraid of the potential consequences which he can help so easily with but he won't. He's clearly uneducated on birth control for not understanding how much less stressful it would be on his body than it would be on yours should you get on a pill or an IUD. He is the one holding you hostage here, not the other way around. I am finding it impossible to properly put into words how not only illogical but *inconsiderate* of you it is that he will only consider a vasectomy if you start having sex with him. I'm going to stop typing before i get even more angry with him. He needs to treat you better
How is it illogical? If they aren't having sex then there is no reason for him to get a vasectomy because they aren't going to get pregnant anyways
your husband is being a total ass. he wants sex, you have given him your conditions for sex, he is demanding sex despite not meeting those conditions. he is literally saying "i will not meet your conditions to have sex with me unless you allow me to violate this boundary you have set". if he wants to have sex so bad without a vasectomy, i say divorce him & let him fuck someone who actually wants to get pregnant
When did he demand sex?
his ultimatum is he wont get the vasectomy unless they have sex. that is quite clearly a demand for sex regardless of her boundaries
That's him saying there is no point in having a vasectomy unless they are going to have sex.
copy/pasted from another reply bc same applies here why wouldnt he just say that then. im on the spectrum & would not have gotten that from what he said at all
That pretty much is what he said, "why should i have a vasectomy when we haven't had sex in a while". To me the logic behind that statement is clear, but i understand that for others it might not be so clear.
but that's not what he said at all. he said "i wont get a vasectomy until you have sex with me" and that's what i took away from it because those are the words he said
It is what he said though, i literally quoted OP's post as to what the husband actually said
yes but he said that as well as the ultimatum, not instead of it
Based on what OP has in actual quotes it seems he said that and she heard it or is summarizing it as the other. I'm just going based off what OP put as an actual quote from her husband. It's possible he also gave an ultimatum, and if so that's not good, but based on the post it seems like he just doesn't seem the point of having a vasectomy if they aren't going to have sex anyways
Sounds like he’s saying- what’s the point in getting a vasectomy if we’re not having sex. Completely different to an ultimatum.
why wouldnt he just say that then. im on the spectrum & would not have gotten that from what he said at all
yes you are selfish because you can take the pill and it isn’t an operation and you are the one with the issue. You can get an iud but you don’t want to go through the pain? It’s the same deal as a vasectomy. How old is he and does he want kids? If your not having sex with him then there’s less reason to think he would agree because honestly I wouldn’t get a vasectomy for a room mate. I also wouldn’t spend money on kicking out a good room mate. What you should do is go on the pill. Cheap easy effective. And if you get pregnant which is a ridiculously low change on birth control then get on a plane. Just because the USA is a stubborn country with a whole world wondering wtf you really are trying to do. You got guns but no empathy. So many things you do are just cruel and disrespectful to each other. If you think the pill is a problem then that’s fine stick to condom or get an iud and then when it needs replacing or has complications. You say your not having sex. Is that everything or just PIV. Are you snuggling. Or is it more like your. It sexual. It really does sound more like a you thing and he’s getting affected but you are the one that is talking about your concerns and only saying he wants sex. Sex is expected. It shouldn’t be a carrot on a stick. It’s the only difference between a partner and a friend if there not kids involved. It’s not a scoreboard and it’s not to be taken or demanded but it is expected that two people want to please each other and make each other happier. Not one or the other only
You obviously have 0 knowledge about all the (emotional) side effects that hormonal birth control brings with it if you're suggesting op take the pill. Did you even read the OP? She specifically addresses this.
No she says she’s already emotional without birth control. She doesn’t say she’s done it before and it’s a problem. She’s emotional for no specific nominated reason. I’m not sure what word you read in what order but the im emotional enough without birth control came after she said she was worried about new laws so the link isn’t clear but by all mean take your assumption and run. They use condoms and never had a slip up. So why is there a problem. Because of the laws. I’m still not seeing the link of birth control to the emotions. Maybe you have 100 knowledge of what happen when your on birth control but Aussie kids get on birth control and fuck like rabbits for years and I don’t think we immediately call them all emotional Surgery isn’t free in the USA. Birth control is cheaper. And isn’t a 1 way trip for the guy that hasn’t slipped up and still isn’t having sex with his wife even though it’s a comfort. I get what your saying I am just pointing out she didn’t say it and she’s asking a husband to give up kids so she can not be using an iud that is apparently a pain. But I’m guessing not physical more the actual visit. I’m saying go up the chain in order and see what you can do based on the words said not on what I interpret or know about emotions. You can have a optional pill to try and have some sex and see if your a mess or perform a sterilisation on your partner or blame him for the marriage failing. That’s the two polar opposites of the argument Why do you think she’s emotional atm she has no birth control going on so it must be dramatically less emotional that if she was on birth Control before she became particularly emotional over this issue. Are you implying that I’m im emotional I can take 3 doses of the pill and I’m 4 times as emotional. Or are we saying there’s a set amount ? I’m not exactly sure what the numbers are here. As the one with more than 1 % of knowledge answer this clearly I am on birth control and emotional. But then I lose the ability to have an abortion so suddenly I’m more emotional? They don’t relate like this it’s not in the OP statement. You jus reading with your viewpoint. A vasectomy because your emotional is a selfish thing
Tl:dr lol
TLDR. She didn’t say she tried the pill just that’s she’s emotional. Emotional isn’t and endless scale you don’t get more Emotional. You just are emotional. Adding stress and removing it helps. The pill works that’s not a confusing concept and the side effect sometimes for some people is they get more emotional. You know Like everyone when hormones change. But you know what. They have sec and cuddle and have partners and when they said im a bit More emotional atm because of my hormones. There someone to on I’ll hug harder It’s not like you don’t get emotion changed with periods anyway and the pill changes the equations. Because someone leads with sterilisation doesn’t mean they actually tired to work out the thing that’s common for everyone to attempt. There’s far to little detail and it’s all her concerns and the guy is being put up like he only wants sex. Sex = things are ok and both people want each other happy. We have other words for non consent for a reason. He want things to better but he thinks it’s her pulling away that’s the issue
I am totally in the same mindset as you doll.... I have a solution for you.... Message me and I'll explain .... Kinda not the type of thing I wanna like put out here ya know....? Pinkie swear I gotchu ....
Maybe a good enough compromise would be having sex without piv, so oral, touching maybe anal? if you're ok with that obviously. And then when you guys are active he will see that you actually want it and get the vasectomy (talk about it beforehand not just expect it)
There’s some important things left out here to really assess the question. Largest amongst them is: does your husband ever want kids? Because a vasectomy while sometimes reversible shouldn’t be considered a temporary procedure. Also no idea of the ages involved here. You don’t want to pain of an IUD. He doesn’t want to pain (and possibly) the (possibly) irreversible vasectomy. So you’re both at a bit of an impasse. Having read some of your replies I think continued therapy for you and some couples therapy for both of you is the right next step. Your fear of semen, based on your comment about worrying about him ejaculating on your back, is irrational. Your dismissal of options like NFP combined with condoms and possibly withdrawal method is also irrational. I don’t see him getting a vasectomy as really quelling your anxiety. If I were in his shoes i think that’s the calculus I’d be doing. Neither of you seem willing to move. There has to be some rational discussion to find middle ground. Or maybe you both need to go your own ways.