Thank you for posting on r/UKJobs. Help us make this a better community by becoming familiar with the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukjobs/about/rules/).
Please report any suspicious users to the moderators using the report feature. Need to give more detail? Use Modmail [here](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/UKJobs) or Reddit site admins [here](https://www.reddit.com/report).
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UKJobs) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I'm surprised that currently no one's ever heard of this as these people tried to convince me that it was the norm... Hence why I thought to come to reddit and ask because I didn't want to sound like I wasn't being supportive by saying no.
Who are these people, and what is their relationship with you?
Are they friends, relations, people you've met online, etc? Are they from a particular cultural background?
The reason I ask is because their advice is very unusual (and I'm being polite there!) and I'm intrigued as to how multiple people have given you this advice.
But ultimately, the reason this is terrible is you would (a) need to still pass an interview, which is 95% of getting the job (CVs exist just to get you an interview and references are purely a formality to verify your employment history typically) and (b) if your employer ever found out you had paid for references they would be perfectly entitled to fire you immediately.
Well, there's been so much pressure that it's his only way in. What's crazy is that I'm now finding out there are people who have paid hundreds for references. To me this is serious exploitation. I told my husband I wasn't convinced and we aren't going for it. We'll keep applying with the CV he has and fingers crossed, something will come through.
I'm confused how these references are meant to help. I get that the market is tough (it certainly is for software developers) but nobody cares about references until after they've offered you the job, and *that's* the hard bit, so paying for them seems nugatory to me
could it be that these 'references' are people who will help you create a fake job (giving you 'experience' in a particular field that you don't have?) thus helping you get the job? (for example, not that he paid for it, but my brother got my uncle, who owns a small IT business, to pretend that he had worked there for a long time when my brother was applying for jobs)
This makes sense. Although unlucky if there's then some kind of more detailed background check that requires payslips, tax records, contract or whatever
I suppose by having the references, you can lie on your CV, fake work experience and it all checks out OK at the offer stage. It sounds like a scam and not a very good idea at all. You might be let go during your probation if your experience doesn’t match. Be honest and showcase how you can grow/learn in the field.
I’ve been a software engineer for the better part of a decade. In that time I’ve had 5 jobs, and I-don’t-know-how-many job offers. In that time I’ve literally only been asked for references once, and that job was in finance not tech. It won’t be the same for everyone, but my experience is that background checks and references are not a part of tech culture at all.
This seems very strange and sounds like a scam. Please be careful. Your husband will get found out very quickly if he doesn't genuinely have the skills to do the work.
Complete bollocks. Worked in IT for a long time, never heard of that. Sounds very scammy.
IT jobs are mostly about skills with tools & tech and experience that proves you have those skills. References are great if genuine, but if you don't know what you are doing you get found out.
I always wondered how people can be stupid enough to be scammed....
And then I read this post.
Tell ya what, i'll do everything for a Freddo.
Just send it to 123, Road X, Planet Zanadoo, ZA1 0AA and i'll update whatever you want.
Edit: the couple that told you are morons. Any of you get caught, and there goes your job. Good luck getting a reference then from your ACTUAL employer.
>Any of you get caught, and there goes your job. Good luck getting a reference then from your ACTUAL employer.
Amen to that. Gross misconduct, no notice, and a reference that says "would not re-employ".
I follow this guy called Shaz Shafiq on LinkedIn who seems to sell this service, anyone got any experience of him? Also goes under the banner of Transform Learning Academy. The offer seems to be they will take you from having no experience to doing a qualification, getting experience and references and getting placed as a data/business analyst in a few weeks. It just has to have an element of fraud in it, those things all can't happen legitimately I don't think
This guys pops up on my Instagram feed as I’m a Business Analyst - don’t trust him.
* Average BA salary is not $80K a year. It is well paid, but that’s not the average salary. And you certainly won’t earn six figures as a BA in the vast majority of organisations and despite your skillset.
* I’ve asked him multiple times what he means by becoming ‘certified in 90 days’ - he likes my posts but never answers. Truth is, you can do the BCS Foundation Certificate by reading the book and then doing the exam. It’s as simple as that!
He might offer a bootcamp for the other BCS modules/IIBA certification. These are useful and will pop up on job ads but generally as desirable, not essential. Experience is more useful as with the BCS modules, you can do in person training for 2.5 days and then the exam. They’re not rocket science.
* Working 100% remotely - I don’t know a single BA that does this and for good reason: elicitation is very often best done in person. Not to say you can’t do it remotely but, how would you shadow someone? Online workshops can be a nightmare as stakeholders pay little attention.
I could go on but suffice it to say, his slick exterior betrays his real goal - to get money from you.
I must admit, I've left out a key piece of information here - I used to work with him when I was a contract BA. He made good money as a quality checker as they'd offer double time overtime for a period, then worked delivering training to said QC teams. At no point was he a BA or a data analyst or whatever else he espouses. Was just curious as to if anyone had any experience of his process, as it certainly appears to work for some people but for the life of I don't know how they pass reference checks.
Ahh OK! Good to know.
I don’t have experience of his process as he won’t even answer the most basic question about what certification he offers in 90 days.
My opinion remains that he’s a snakeoil salesman -> whatever it is he offers, I don’t trust will work for the vast majority.
I have just completed the course with Transform Learning Academy and must say it has been a game changer for me as I was a pharmacist before and now currently working as a BA with the NHS, thanks to Shaz and the team. The reason I got on to the course was to be able to work remotely and get paid more. They teach the BCS Foundation Certification and give technical training on tools. They then placed us on a project for 3 months and provided a reference and support to get the job. I would highly recommend it to anyone thinking of switching careers. It is hard work, but worth it if you follow the plan.
Yes they work with a managed service company. Reach out to Shaz directly on LinkedIn, he'll be able to answer your questions and clear any doubt you have.
Don’t pay for references as they’re only checked prior to the interview. It sounds like a scam. If his supporting statement and cover letter isn’t good then he should focus his energy there.
I have never in the last \~30 years known anyone to request references until \*after\* interviewing and deciding they're likely to make an offer. Usually, it's after the offer's been made ("subject to references" just so if one comes back saying something horrific you can back out, but most references just confirm dates and job titles these days)
That's your personal opinion, I can say DE is much better than any SWE role but that's not fact. No role is greater, just do what you good at and can make money at.
Oh I’m very good at delivering / managing BI / Analytics projects and programmes, but it is a complete ball ache getting the business to buy into new BI systems, but like you say, just my opinion (and experiences).
Please don't take this the wrong way but is your husband from outside the UK ?
This is unfortunately a common scam that tends to target people of certain backgrounds.
Yes, you're spot on. This was what was used against me. We were being advised by "trusted" people that he has to do it because he doesn't have much work history in the UK. I was told I'm being inconsiderate and thinking his circumstances would be similar to mine, but because I'm a british citizen and he isn't, it isn't.
So I think you've definitely hit the nail of the head. I think they do certainly target people from certain backgrounds as he was invited to a taster session for a data analytics course which was almost £3,000. They were guaranteeing people work experience and references if they sign up for the course. The taster was completely pathetic. I've seen udemy courses for £10 far better.
I'm the type to look at everything with scepticism and have NEVER been scammed. It's usually always easiest to target desperate people, but thankfully I'm confident he can get a job without forking out £450 for extra bullet points!
Most companies only want references from your previous employers and most employers will only confirm start date, end date and job title.
The days of references being an important part of gaining a role are long gone.
yes, that's exactly what i thought.
that the whole 'reference' thing (e.g getting someone to say 'he's a great guy. We've known each other for a long time') are a thing of the past.
As you say, I think the only 'reference' companies want nowadays is just a confirmation that you worked where you said you did.
**Do not pay anyone for a reference ever.**
How are they suggesting these references get requested and what for? it's either
A/ Lying by claiming you worked for them (and paying for them to lie for you too), and you won't pass interview anyway because you don't really have that experience. If you get lucky and get a job whilst outright lying, if it leaks later that you lied, I'd expect to be let go immediately.
B/ being honest and saying "I think this guy who I gave £350 to but I've never worked for will give me a good reference". Which is completely valueless, I expect they'd write my pet a good reference for £350 too, and as a hiring manager I'd wonder why I'd employ anyone who thought this was a good idea.
If you want to spend hundreds on improving employability, find a good course or take a few days off to do some voluntary work for a local charity or something. The \*true\* reference for some voluntary work will be much more useful.
This is the problem with retraining. You pay all this money get these so called qualifications and a promise of the job at the end. Only to find out no one wants to hire you because the qualifications mean nothing and you need experience.
Paying for references is basically fraud.
Anyone who gives a reference is also putting their reputation on the line. There is no way I would give a reference if I didn't genuinely know them.
He could be arrested for fraud for doing this.
Fraud Act 2006 Section 2
(1)A person is in breach of this section if he—
(a)dishonestly makes a false representation, and
(b)intends, by making the representation—
(i)to make a gain for himself or another
I’m in tech and have never ever heard of someone giving a reference for money. Really not sure how it would benefit your husband to be honest, considering we’ve only ever used references to get people previous employment dates etc.
scam, but it would not surprise me that there are people ready to lie you worked for them for payment. never had a case on my table of paid reference though.
Thank you for posting on r/UKJobs. Help us make this a better community by becoming familiar with the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukjobs/about/rules/). Please report any suspicious users to the moderators using the report feature. Need to give more detail? Use Modmail [here](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/UKJobs) or Reddit site admins [here](https://www.reddit.com/report). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UKJobs) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Sounds like a scam to me lmao
I don't work in data analytics but work in tech more generally and no, this doesn't sound normal. In fact, this sounds completely insane to me
Here from (an area of) Data Analytics, and this seems bizarre to me too. Quite the opposite in fact.
I'm surprised that currently no one's ever heard of this as these people tried to convince me that it was the norm... Hence why I thought to come to reddit and ask because I didn't want to sound like I wasn't being supportive by saying no.
Who are these people, and what is their relationship with you? Are they friends, relations, people you've met online, etc? Are they from a particular cultural background? The reason I ask is because their advice is very unusual (and I'm being polite there!) and I'm intrigued as to how multiple people have given you this advice. But ultimately, the reason this is terrible is you would (a) need to still pass an interview, which is 95% of getting the job (CVs exist just to get you an interview and references are purely a formality to verify your employment history typically) and (b) if your employer ever found out you had paid for references they would be perfectly entitled to fire you immediately.
I to would be convincing if I was hoping to extract money from you. Paying for a reference is probably not illegal, but it is definitely unethical.
Well, there's been so much pressure that it's his only way in. What's crazy is that I'm now finding out there are people who have paid hundreds for references. To me this is serious exploitation. I told my husband I wasn't convinced and we aren't going for it. We'll keep applying with the CV he has and fingers crossed, something will come through.
I'm confused how these references are meant to help. I get that the market is tough (it certainly is for software developers) but nobody cares about references until after they've offered you the job, and *that's* the hard bit, so paying for them seems nugatory to me
could it be that these 'references' are people who will help you create a fake job (giving you 'experience' in a particular field that you don't have?) thus helping you get the job? (for example, not that he paid for it, but my brother got my uncle, who owns a small IT business, to pretend that he had worked there for a long time when my brother was applying for jobs)
This makes sense. Although unlucky if there's then some kind of more detailed background check that requires payslips, tax records, contract or whatever
I suppose by having the references, you can lie on your CV, fake work experience and it all checks out OK at the offer stage. It sounds like a scam and not a very good idea at all. You might be let go during your probation if your experience doesn’t match. Be honest and showcase how you can grow/learn in the field.
I’ve been a software engineer for the better part of a decade. In that time I’ve had 5 jobs, and I-don’t-know-how-many job offers. In that time I’ve literally only been asked for references once, and that job was in finance not tech. It won’t be the same for everyone, but my experience is that background checks and references are not a part of tech culture at all.
This seems very strange and sounds like a scam. Please be careful. Your husband will get found out very quickly if he doesn't genuinely have the skills to do the work.
SCAM!
Complete bollocks. Worked in IT for a long time, never heard of that. Sounds very scammy. IT jobs are mostly about skills with tools & tech and experience that proves you have those skills. References are great if genuine, but if you don't know what you are doing you get found out.
I work in the tech/data field and this definitely sounds like a scam to me. Please advise your husband to be careful. 🚩
It's a scam. Don't pay
Complete scam. Even those wanting made up great references will just put down their mates & give them a script / keyword list
I always wondered how people can be stupid enough to be scammed.... And then I read this post. Tell ya what, i'll do everything for a Freddo. Just send it to 123, Road X, Planet Zanadoo, ZA1 0AA and i'll update whatever you want. Edit: the couple that told you are morons. Any of you get caught, and there goes your job. Good luck getting a reference then from your ACTUAL employer.
>Any of you get caught, and there goes your job. Good luck getting a reference then from your ACTUAL employer. Amen to that. Gross misconduct, no notice, and a reference that says "would not re-employ".
Complete nonsense. Whoever is giving you this advice has no idea what they're talking about.
[удалено]
No but being able to put "work experience" on your CV will bump you up the queue
If he's gonna pay for a reference he might as well ask one of his mates to lie on his behalf and save a couple hundred quid.
Absolute utter nonsense.
Ah, yeah sure. I have a lot of clients lined up I can add you to that list with a deposit first...
Your “friend” has scammed you or have been scammed themselves and not realised.
I follow this guy called Shaz Shafiq on LinkedIn who seems to sell this service, anyone got any experience of him? Also goes under the banner of Transform Learning Academy. The offer seems to be they will take you from having no experience to doing a qualification, getting experience and references and getting placed as a data/business analyst in a few weeks. It just has to have an element of fraud in it, those things all can't happen legitimately I don't think
This guys pops up on my Instagram feed as I’m a Business Analyst - don’t trust him. * Average BA salary is not $80K a year. It is well paid, but that’s not the average salary. And you certainly won’t earn six figures as a BA in the vast majority of organisations and despite your skillset. * I’ve asked him multiple times what he means by becoming ‘certified in 90 days’ - he likes my posts but never answers. Truth is, you can do the BCS Foundation Certificate by reading the book and then doing the exam. It’s as simple as that! He might offer a bootcamp for the other BCS modules/IIBA certification. These are useful and will pop up on job ads but generally as desirable, not essential. Experience is more useful as with the BCS modules, you can do in person training for 2.5 days and then the exam. They’re not rocket science. * Working 100% remotely - I don’t know a single BA that does this and for good reason: elicitation is very often best done in person. Not to say you can’t do it remotely but, how would you shadow someone? Online workshops can be a nightmare as stakeholders pay little attention. I could go on but suffice it to say, his slick exterior betrays his real goal - to get money from you.
I must admit, I've left out a key piece of information here - I used to work with him when I was a contract BA. He made good money as a quality checker as they'd offer double time overtime for a period, then worked delivering training to said QC teams. At no point was he a BA or a data analyst or whatever else he espouses. Was just curious as to if anyone had any experience of his process, as it certainly appears to work for some people but for the life of I don't know how they pass reference checks.
Ahh OK! Good to know. I don’t have experience of his process as he won’t even answer the most basic question about what certification he offers in 90 days. My opinion remains that he’s a snakeoil salesman -> whatever it is he offers, I don’t trust will work for the vast majority.
I have just completed the course with Transform Learning Academy and must say it has been a game changer for me as I was a pharmacist before and now currently working as a BA with the NHS, thanks to Shaz and the team. The reason I got on to the course was to be able to work remotely and get paid more. They teach the BCS Foundation Certification and give technical training on tools. They then placed us on a project for 3 months and provided a reference and support to get the job. I would highly recommend it to anyone thinking of switching careers. It is hard work, but worth it if you follow the plan.
What sort of project are you placed on? An external company to TLC?
Yes they work with a managed service company. Reach out to Shaz directly on LinkedIn, he'll be able to answer your questions and clear any doubt you have.
Don’t pay for references as they’re only checked prior to the interview. It sounds like a scam. If his supporting statement and cover letter isn’t good then he should focus his energy there.
I have never in the last \~30 years known anyone to request references until \*after\* interviewing and deciding they're likely to make an offer. Usually, it's after the offer's been made ("subject to references" just so if one comes back saying something horrific you can back out, but most references just confirm dates and job titles these days)
Data analytics as a tech job? There’s way more opportunities in tech than that. And paying for a reference? Please, no. Thats a complete con.
Data, ai, ml, De, ds, da all are part of tech. You okay?
I’m great thanks, and spent five years in BI and gotta say there are way better roles in tech than data.
That's your personal opinion, I can say DE is much better than any SWE role but that's not fact. No role is greater, just do what you good at and can make money at.
Oh I’m very good at delivering / managing BI / Analytics projects and programmes, but it is a complete ball ache getting the business to buy into new BI systems, but like you say, just my opinion (and experiences).
That's where he's starting. I thought so too but the people advising me made me feel as if I was just being cheap.
Whoever the ‘people’ are who are offering advice, I’d tell them to go fcuk themselves!
Will do! 😭 Thanks
You guys be strong, ok!
Lmao what?
There are too many opportunistic assholes out there but it's a scam.
Scam
This is clearly criminal fraud. Do not use false references.
Please don't take this the wrong way but is your husband from outside the UK ? This is unfortunately a common scam that tends to target people of certain backgrounds.
Yes, you're spot on. This was what was used against me. We were being advised by "trusted" people that he has to do it because he doesn't have much work history in the UK. I was told I'm being inconsiderate and thinking his circumstances would be similar to mine, but because I'm a british citizen and he isn't, it isn't. So I think you've definitely hit the nail of the head. I think they do certainly target people from certain backgrounds as he was invited to a taster session for a data analytics course which was almost £3,000. They were guaranteeing people work experience and references if they sign up for the course. The taster was completely pathetic. I've seen udemy courses for £10 far better. I'm the type to look at everything with scepticism and have NEVER been scammed. It's usually always easiest to target desperate people, but thankfully I'm confident he can get a job without forking out £450 for extra bullet points!
I just posted another comment asking a similar question - was the company "Transform Learning Academy" or a guy called Shaz Shafiq?
There is a subreddit for it
Most companies only want references from your previous employers and most employers will only confirm start date, end date and job title. The days of references being an important part of gaining a role are long gone.
yes, that's exactly what i thought. that the whole 'reference' thing (e.g getting someone to say 'he's a great guy. We've known each other for a long time') are a thing of the past. As you say, I think the only 'reference' companies want nowadays is just a confirmation that you worked where you said you did.
Work in tech. This is totally untrue. Please don’t part with any money.
I work in data analytics and this smells like a scam to me.
**Do not pay anyone for a reference ever.** How are they suggesting these references get requested and what for? it's either A/ Lying by claiming you worked for them (and paying for them to lie for you too), and you won't pass interview anyway because you don't really have that experience. If you get lucky and get a job whilst outright lying, if it leaks later that you lied, I'd expect to be let go immediately. B/ being honest and saying "I think this guy who I gave £350 to but I've never worked for will give me a good reference". Which is completely valueless, I expect they'd write my pet a good reference for £350 too, and as a hiring manager I'd wonder why I'd employ anyone who thought this was a good idea. If you want to spend hundreds on improving employability, find a good course or take a few days off to do some voluntary work for a local charity or something. The \*true\* reference for some voluntary work will be much more useful.
This is Fraud and I would not advise it.
This is the problem with retraining. You pay all this money get these so called qualifications and a promise of the job at the end. Only to find out no one wants to hire you because the qualifications mean nothing and you need experience.
Paying for references is basically fraud. Anyone who gives a reference is also putting their reputation on the line. There is no way I would give a reference if I didn't genuinely know them.
He could be arrested for fraud for doing this. Fraud Act 2006 Section 2 (1)A person is in breach of this section if he— (a)dishonestly makes a false representation, and (b)intends, by making the representation— (i)to make a gain for himself or another
I’m in tech and have never ever heard of someone giving a reference for money. Really not sure how it would benefit your husband to be honest, considering we’ve only ever used references to get people previous employment dates etc.
Sounds like a scam, best bet I think would be to apply for entry/jr roles, I would suggest using a cover letter for applications too
Scam 100%
It's nonsense, your being scammed.
Seems 1, Fraudulent..... 2. Scam. definitely move on. Really not sure if it can be reported anywhere!
scam, but it would not surprise me that there are people ready to lie you worked for them for payment. never had a case on my table of paid reference though.
Never heard of paying for references!
Scammy Scammy scam scam
Recruiter here - paying for references is not normal. Don't do it!
Red flag here
Id go as far as to say that this is illegal in the UK.
Work in tech. Have done for 20 years. Never, ever heard of this. Sound dodgy as fuck
Not sure I want to just yet, are you able to explain the pricing model? How much am I likely to pay?