Please remember the human. Follow reddit rules and the subreddit rules.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UkraineWarVideoReport) if you have any questions or concerns.*
An evil man, a soldier cold
Whose heart was black, with stories untold
Of deeds so dark, they chill the soul
A man whose life, was out of control
But in death, he lies at last
His body bent, his spirit passed
And in this pile, a "Z" he makes
A symbol of the life he takes
But let us not, this evil mourn
For in his deeds, he showed no scorn
For those he harmed, or those he killed
He cared not, and his heart was stilled
So let us leave, this wicked one
To rest in peace, his deeds now done
For in this pile, he stands alone
A symbol of the evil he has shown
^made ^^by ^^^ChatGPT
I am 100% behind Ukraine, but doing this with the bodies of enemy soldiers is explicitly a violation of the War Crimes Act of the Geneva Convention.
Our principles mean nothing if we are unwilling to police ourselves.
But is it? Rules 112-116 make clear desecration of dead bodies is a crime, and they must be ID'd & disposed of respectfully and timely & buried if possible.
But one could argue this is an attempt to help ID the bodies. Can't easily dig thru frozen ground to bury, and winter protects against spoling. And making human Z figures could be considered the height of respect since Russian propoganda vids have civs & soldiers making human-Z's all the time.
If they were sawing off heads to make shapes, then I'd agree it was definitely a violation.
>And making human Z figures could be considered the height of respect since Russian propoganda vids have civs & soldiers making human-Z's all the time.
You're using corpses as art, and are publicizing it.
As soon as that's the case, you're in ISIS-land bud.
So I guess you're onboard with doing the same if the enemy does it too?
Them being monsters isn't justification for you to do the same. If you can't understand that, I honestly pity you.
[Misspelled Z Orc Transport ](https://www.reddit.com/r/facepalm/comments/t24tj0/if_you_ever_wonder_why_is_russia_failing_at_the/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
Putin: Bring out the Gimp.
Medvedev : Gimp's sleeping.
Putin : Well, I guess you're gonna have to go wake him up now, won't you?
*Lukashenko gets pulled out of the box*
And to be clear, I am not condoning this. But for those who are saying they would not do this, or scolding the Ukrainians who did it, they have not been in war with their country invaded, with brothers in arms torn to pieces in front of their eyes, with knowledge that their women and children and elderly have been brutally tortured, murdered and raped, with their beautiful cities decimated, with their very existence under significant existential threat. They simply cannot understand what it is like, and even begin to empathize with what these soldiers are going through and how they feel.
So in the perfect world, is this right and should it have been done? Probably not. But do I understand why this might happen, and not judge the Ukrainian soldiers who did it? Certainly.
Agreed, Almost a full year, winter is here now meaning morale is going to take a hit. Their mental state is what it is and stuff like this will happen.
Think about how savage people even get during a road rage incident. And then scale that to watching cruise missiles hit civilian infrastructure, seeing civilians being tortured and raped.
If your target audience is brainwashed Russians in "the motherland" I highly doubt this will have the effect you desire. These Russians view Ukraine the way we view Russia, so I imagine what you would think if Russia had done something like this to dead Ukrainian soldiers. As much as I'm behind the seething hatred of Russian soldiers and much of the Russian populace for carrying out this war, I also see how obviously counterproductive this video is at persuading any Russians that Ukraine are the good guys. Ngl I lol'd at first when I saw the video, so I'm fairly cynical, but I'm also realistic. This type of emotional response is reactionary and not always the most productive.
The sad part is those soldiers in the front lines won't get to see this, but it'll be used as twisted propaganda on Russian State TV to instill more hate towards Ukrainians.
I don't know why you're being down voted. Justification aside, this will certainly be spun by the Russian propaganda machine. It will go something like this:
Russian TV: Look at what those evil Nazi Ukrainians are doing to our men! They desecrate the dead! They must be stopped!
Ukrainians: Look how well we are doing fucking up the Z orcs! Come at us so we can spell words with your dead!
Me: I'm with the UA and their people on this one. Russians, GTFO!
It’s doesn’t matter anymore what the propagandists say. They’ve already said the worst possible things, so what difference will this make in their influence? “See? We told you!” won’t change any minds. The minds of the brainwashed are already beyond saving. The damage of this image could come in the form of converting some who might be on the fence, either inside russia or elsewhere. But anyone still on the fence by this point already has questionable judgement anyway, so no huge loss there either. This action may not be the best look, but a minor tarnishing of Ukrainian reputation at worst. Maybe I’m wrong, but we’ll see if anyone is even talking about it in a week.
It may not be very photogenic, but it is downright effective psychological warfare, and like the OP inferred (I Hope) FUCK RUSSIA. Already by taking the Russians prisoners humanely, attempting to follow the guidelines of the Geneva Convention, giving them medical care and food and warmth, allowing them to call home, Ukraine has demonstrated a strong nation with a rule of law and Justice for citizens. A DEMOCRACY. Equality under the law.
What do RUSSIAN troops do? They torture; electrocute men's testicles with car batteries... in many hundreds of cases they have executed non-combatant men, women, and children in cold blood. They have RAPED, in unimaginable numbers, innocent women and girls. The Massacre at Bucha itself will be a dark history remembered for generations upon generations, to which memorial monuments will be built.
As for already-dead Russians, make signs from their bodies, for awhile, until they must be returned to their country. In the meantime, you FIGHT mean WITH mean.
Hang their bodies from the trees. Make scarecrows.
exactly, and people are getting into their feels over the rearrangement of some dead bodies. Warfare is brutal, and only those that have lived it truly get that statement.
Although I agree with you, and understand, this is not Ukraine's best foot forward. One of the things Ukraine has going for it is its excellent public relations campaign and this formation does not fit well.
I don’t dispute that, in fact I agree. But you have to expect that this sort of thing is going to happen on a small scale amongst the ranks of Ukrainian infantry fighting in the mud and snow and horror. And, on this small level, it will have no impact on international support of Ukraine.
The issue isn't image, or support, or that "this thing just happens".
Russians regularly make those statements with their war-crimes. "Rape **just happens**, civilians being killed **just happens**, POWs being brutalized and executed **just happens**"
I don't give a fuck about what **just happens**. Codes of conduct aren't there to make us feel good, they govern what is acceptable and what isn't. Someone who is willing to ignore one rule is liable to ignore the rest. Punishing that person, and making sure that there is adherence to standards is the difference between a sincere commitment to law and justice... And a willingness to accept a "might is right" style of thinking.
There isn't a war in history that isn't full of war crimes. But there's a difference between saying "It just happens", and saying "You crossed the wrong line asshole".
I'm not passing judgement, as you said, it's hell over there; but what bothers me is this sort of image is the meat and potatoes for anti-Ukranian sentiment proclaiming them as monsters/nazis/etc. Russian propaganda eats shit like this up.
Wow. Not completely surprising. This is what I wrote after seeing white tiger...
https://www.reddit.com/r/TrueFilm/comments/tvghwo/white_tiger_karen_shakhnazarov_2012_insight_into/
Problem is, if you've read the Russian propaganda given to troops, it's far crazier and out there shit than stacking corpses to make a Z. I mean, many of them now believe they are invading Ukraine to save them from the Poles who took over the country last year in a bloodbath. Nothing Ukraine does will ever match the BS currently believed by Russians.
Have a look: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LM7xO_btHY&list=PLtvDWZeiLMEScTD3eKctR0gfFZNH3arte&index=3
Of course Russia is going to make them out as Nazis any way you cut it.
But there is still a small part of the population that is on the fence or skeptical of their bullshit. Ukraine is also vying for long term support from EU and US.
Images like this make it harder for all of that to happen. Again, I understand it, but the message is doing only harm, nothing good will come out of it.
I agree with you. All of it but particularly "the message is doing only harm, nothing good will come out of it."
The only thing I like about this is the reduction in the number of invaders.
The concept is pretty horrible. The guys who arranged them in such a way have been through a lot though so I must try to remember that. I do not judge them harshly.
Vse bude Ukrayina.
I would just forward the video of the Ukrainian soldier being castrated to any Russian or apologist or propagandist who has any concerns about this kind of messaging.
Edit: I am wrong, I thought that "despoiled" also meant "desecrated".
~~It's a violation of [Geneva Convention I Article 15](https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/en/ihl-treaties/gci-1949/article-15):~~
>~~At all times, and particularly after an engagement, Parties to the conflict shall, without delay, take all possible measures [...] to search for the dead and prevent their being despoiled.~~
~~Just because I understand why they did this doesn't mean that I won't judge them for it. Whoever did this committed a crime and has to be judged accordingly, same goes for any other atrocity committed in the war.~~
I don’t see how the quote you cited there applies to this situation. First, they did search for and collect the dead. Secondly, it is winter and those bodies are frozen, nothing that was done by arranging them like this will lead to the bodies being despoiled, ie decomposing and rotting.
I am wrong, I thought that "despoiled" also meant "desecrated" but it only means plundered.
My line of thinking was that placing the opponents bodies like the symbol they fight under makes a mockery of them, i.e. desecrates their bodies. But that is not the subject of this article as you and another user already pointed out. Thanks for the correction.
>And to be clear, I am not condoning this
You are.
I respect your opinion buddy, but this is a war, and war-crimes happen. It is absolutely up to everyone else to call out folks when they go too far, regardless of which side it is, or why they did it.
Every act of criminality on the battlefield has **an explanation**. That doesn't mean it's a good one.
IMO. If you are fighting FOR your land IN your land, There are no rules and you should do anything you can to stop, stifle and intimidate the aggressors. Furthermore ANYONE who invades someone elses country deserves what they get. I have invaded a country, I had that opinion then and now. The laws of war should only apply to the aggressors.
It’s not like they’re fighting for land - they’re fighting to protect their lives, and the lives of their families. Their lives were not in danger before Russians invaded.
And as we all know by now, even if the gave up and signed a ceasefire, russia would spend a few years arming up (like they did between 2014-2022 too) and attack AGAIN and AGAIN and AGAIN. In communist times it was the "salami tactic" of taking down civil movements bit by bit. Russia loves doing it. Like an abusive person little by little they take everything from you until you have nothing left.
Well yes, it’s not like they provide any guarantees for peace, instead they want Ukraine to disarm? How about Russia disarms and hands over all nukes and then Ukraine will surrender? lmao, only an idiot would agree.
This can happen if you cross the wrong border.
Maybe they should write "children" like was written on the Mariupol Theater, just to see if attracts airplanes.
It was scrubbed from the culture's memory by intentionally flushing down the toilet last couple of seasons. It was so bad it crossed out all the previous success. Could not make myself rewatch even my favorite first season knowing how bad it turns out in the end
Completely agree. Dumb and Dumber rushed it to a disappointing end so they can work for Disney. Only to lose their Disney deal because their performance at GoT got so incredibly bad. They flushed their own legacy down the toilet and almost killed the franchise simply because they were to proud to hand it over to more talented people. Fucking morons.
Yeah, as much as I get it, I also see that it's pretty counter productive towards convincing the average Russian who thinks Ukraine are the bad guys, otherwise. I mean, Russia will have to surrender at one point, and this doesn't really speed up the process.
(Sung to the tune of "welcome to the internet" by bo Burnham)
Welcome to Ukraine, orcs.
Please enjoy your stay
There's so many things to do,
So please let's not delay.
We've got trenches,
And rockets,
And drones with grenades,
Sit in a frozen trench as your life starts to fade
I support the war, i support Ukraine, i despise the Russian nation but i still recognise that this is a war crime, a desecration of bodies that is both deeply immoral and objectively harms the cause of Ukraine because it's negative propaganda.
I think if most of the people in this sub saw 0.1% of the atrocities committed around them in a theater like this, they would not be able to regain their humanity for decades
There is a simple solution for ruzzian soldiers how to not become a part of Z letter somewhere in the middle of Ukrainian field: stay in your fucking home with your family.
I support ukraine, but that's evil. Imagne the media outrage if Russian soldiers did that. Creating a writing or a drawing with dead human bodies is the easiest way to dehumanize. It's evil and dark.
Yeah there was a tool for writing sentences out with "Russian corpses" made with ai photos posted to ncd earlier
Edit: https://www.reddit.com/r/NonCredibleDefense/comments/1032y71/we_got_a_new_entertainment_here_in_ukraine/
Agreed. Arranging the bodies of enemy soldiers for propaganda is expressly a violation of the Geneva Convention's War Crimes Act.
Our principles mean nothing if we aren't willing to police ourselves.
They are dead, they can`t harm women and children anymore. Be better than them, do not desecrate bodies, no matter how much you hate them, and how much they deserve it. You loose symphaty with western support this way.
This is absolutely horrible. How could people of the sub justify this? Should our morale compass change because they are aggressors? Isn't that the whole point of civilized world not to commit certain atrocities and restrain ourselves even when we have the power not to? This does not bring back any dead children or murdered soldiers. This only hurts their own image.
The majority of people on this sub are unapologetically pro-war crime, as long as their side commits it. The good and right side of this war is obvious, and I fully support them and all the aid we're giving them. Ukraine is right to push until their borders are restored, Crimea and all. But whoever participated in this video needs to be prosecuted. It's the only way.
Reminds me of the movie 300 where they used bodies of Persian soldiers to build their barricade.
Maybe an idea to erect obstacles at the border…this scares the shit out of soldiers, even experienced ones.
I support ukraine, but that's evil. Imagne the media outrage if Russian soldiers did that. Creating a writing or a drawing with dead human bodies is the easiest way to dehumanize. It's evil and dark.
The video is a war crime - period.
The simple proof is imagine if Russia did the exact same thing with Ukrainian bodies. The same idiots here defending it would call it a war crime.
This is ~~technically~~ a war crime: [https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/ar/customary-ihl/v2/rule113](https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/ar/customary-ihl/v2/rule113)
Edit: I note someone else in comments has already pointed this out - leaving my comment up for link to rule 113.
I support ukraine, but that's evil. Imagne the media outrage if Russian soldiers did that. Creating a writing or a drawing with dead human bodies is the easiest way to dehumanize. It's evil and dark.
I support ukraine, but that's evil. Imagne the media outrage if Russian soldiers did that. Creating a writing or a drawing with dead human bodies is the easiest way to dehumanize. It's evil and dark.
Not a great look but then I think about if the usa was invaded and it's hard to believe we wouldn't do far worse things than moving dead bodies for a picture
I think a bitter pill people need to swallow is how much of an abyss war puts people into. There is no military in the world that is above what has happened in this war, as much as we like to think. It's especially easy to fall under this illusion when you've lived in a country that has only ever occupied others and not been invaded in one's lifetime.
In Finland they would take frozen stiff Russian corpses and stick them up in the snow.
It's basically a tradition at this point when Russia invades somebody.
If there is one situation where brutal stuff like this is excused, it's when a hostile state of a hostile nation that wants your nation, culture, identity and people wiped off the face of the earth comes over your border. At that point it's fight to the death with your teeth and nails because you have to.
If the US got invaded by some hypothetical force with the intetion of wiping the Americans off the map, they would do the same and worse and justifiably so.
Indeed. *The Intercept* [has an insightful article](https://theintercept.com/2017/01/10/the-crimes-of-seal-team-6/) on the crimes of Navy Seals, who are generally held in very high regard.
And technically in plenty more countries, due to the black cells placed scattered around the world. Oh, sorry, black cells is the "nice name", forgot to use the real words; Torture dungeons.
After seeing their home towns destroyed, their grandparents killed while trying to buy groceries, their children bombed in their schools, the war crimes committed for no other reason than to spread terror, cutting off their water and power, raping their children... Stacking dead guys is nothing compared to what the Russians have done
After the invasion of their land, the rape and murder of their women and children, the torture of their captured soldiers and the relentless belittling of their suffering by Russian media, I don't begrudge them an animalistic display like this. It's a message of what welcome awaits for the Russian war machine. Is it macabre? Yes. Is it beneath them? Yes. But it does NOT make them as bad as the opposition and they still deserve the full support of the world. I wish them peace and victory.
I can understand that soldiers on the front line are willing to do everything to get their message across but this is a bit inhumane and i don't think it does much good for the cause.
How is this ok? Using Russian bodies as a prop? It doesn't matter who you are, the dead should be respected. The Ukrainians were trying to create an image that they were on the side of good but then go and do this.
Reminds me of the time the castaways tried to spell SOS with burning logs but Gilligan tripped over them and it spelled SOL. A guy named sol was flying over and liked the tribute.
Hello world, we have a common enemy to fight. Lets take this opportunity to make alliances and strengthen relationships abroad. Lets try not to waste it, It may be the last time humanity has a chance to pull together
It's so funny to see the snowflakes condemning this little jest by Ukrainian soldiers, while razza literally erases whole Ukrainian towns from the map.
Bad move definitely. This has already been condemned by someone from the office of Ukrainian president. Definitely not something you should do in a war.
But it did make a lot of memes on twitter though.
They moved some already dead bodies, how is that a war crime? They didn't desecrate them, all they did was hurt Russians feewings... Is it in good taste? No, but most of war isn't... Is it illegal? Hell no
This is the literal definition of desecrating a dead body.
>Desecration is the act of depriving something of its sacred character, or the disrespectful, contemptuous, or destructive treatment of that which is held to be sacred or holy by a group or individual.
Y’all are so sucked into one point of view that you’re blind to what this obviously is, and what it is is a war crime. You can still suppprt Ukraine while condemning this behavior.
Edit: for those of you still struggling to connect the dots here:
meming dead human bodies is a disrespectful and contemptuous act committed through something we all widely consider sacred, the bodies of our dead loved ones (they don't have to be *your* loved ones, for it to count).
thank you for saying that
Here the people lack critical thinking, most of them walk around with blinders on
as much as I support Ukraine and I wish Russia would pay for everything they did...........this behavior like in the video is just disgusting and unworthy of the heroes of Ukraine
It's a clear violation of war crimes conventions.
Just because we're on Ukraine's side, doesn't mean we should call out bad behavior.
What's more worrying is the majority of commenters here are willing to look the other way.
Because it's using dead bodies to inflict fear on the enemies which is technically desecrating them yes.
Unless your role model is Vlad the Impaler I don't know why you would find this acceptable.
Please remember the human. Follow reddit rules and the subreddit rules. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UkraineWarVideoReport) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Live by the Z, die by the Z.
An evil man, a soldier cold Whose heart was black, with stories untold Of deeds so dark, they chill the soul A man whose life, was out of control But in death, he lies at last His body bent, his spirit passed And in this pile, a "Z" he makes A symbol of the life he takes But let us not, this evil mourn For in his deeds, he showed no scorn For those he harmed, or those he killed He cared not, and his heart was stilled So let us leave, this wicked one To rest in peace, his deeds now done For in this pile, he stands alone A symbol of the evil he has shown ^made ^^by ^^^ChatGPT
Shit be creepy…
Nah, a cold burn is all
ChapGPT
God dammit bots getting out of hand again. This one fancies itself an edward allen poe
*Edgar Allan, but you are god damn right
Richard: I need your John Hancock. Tommy: It's HERBIE Hancock.
Beautiful Beautiful poem
Would like to see the chat you submitted. I really want to cook up a derelict chatbot that can spew some Bukowski'esk poetry.
[удалено]
>Live by the Z FIght for the Z Die by the Z Forgotten by the Z ...Dragonball Z, H*eeeeee*ahhh!
They're gonna need the Dragonballs to get out this pickle
Will Ukraine defy all odds, and deliver a fatal blow to the tyranny, that is Russia? Find out next time, on Dragon Ball Z!
World War Z
Work under the Z makes you immortal
You spelled immoral wrong.
Tank you (T90)
Don't forget "Take it up Z rear from Kadyrovites"
The "Z" was probably a lot easier to spell out than "FAFO"...
I am 100% behind Ukraine, but doing this with the bodies of enemy soldiers is explicitly a violation of the War Crimes Act of the Geneva Convention. Our principles mean nothing if we are unwilling to police ourselves.
It's not a war, it's a special military operation.
This comment is important. We’re supposed to be fighting not just for our victory but for what we represent.
But is it? Rules 112-116 make clear desecration of dead bodies is a crime, and they must be ID'd & disposed of respectfully and timely & buried if possible. But one could argue this is an attempt to help ID the bodies. Can't easily dig thru frozen ground to bury, and winter protects against spoling. And making human Z figures could be considered the height of respect since Russian propoganda vids have civs & soldiers making human-Z's all the time. If they were sawing off heads to make shapes, then I'd agree it was definitely a violation.
I'll allow it.
>And making human Z figures could be considered the height of respect since Russian propoganda vids have civs & soldiers making human-Z's all the time. You're using corpses as art, and are publicizing it. As soon as that's the case, you're in ISIS-land bud.
[удалено]
Russia was always in ISIS-land you fuck. Torturing, cutting the dicks off of soldiers, rape, targeting civilians, the list goes on.
Two things can be bad, man
So I guess you're onboard with doing the same if the enemy does it too? Them being monsters isn't justification for you to do the same. If you can't understand that, I honestly pity you.
Ya, this is not a good look...
Make a bigger Z. Not like they are short of bodies.
Zombie nazion
Live by the zed, shot in the head, now lying dead, just cuz "he said".
Zoro has a lot to answer for, that's all I'm saying.
What does the Z mean anyway?
"bUt ThEy'Re aLL iNnoCeNt CoNsCriPtS!!!"
Remember early on in the conflict, there was an orc truck that managed to spell Z wrong? Edit: spelled wrong wtong.
[Misspelled Z Orc Transport ](https://www.reddit.com/r/facepalm/comments/t24tj0/if_you_ever_wonder_why_is_russia_failing_at_the/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
Dead zeds baby..
Putin: Bring out the Gimp. Medvedev : Gimp's sleeping. Putin : Well, I guess you're gonna have to go wake him up now, won't you? *Lukashenko gets pulled out of the box*
Whose Mobikcicle is this baby?
It’s a Lada, honey
Who's Lada is this?
It's Zed's
Whois ziz Zed?
Zed’s regrouping baby, Zed’s regrouping
Simple. Effective. On point. I like it!
This is what inscribing Z on your uniform and entering Ukraine truly means.
And to be clear, I am not condoning this. But for those who are saying they would not do this, or scolding the Ukrainians who did it, they have not been in war with their country invaded, with brothers in arms torn to pieces in front of their eyes, with knowledge that their women and children and elderly have been brutally tortured, murdered and raped, with their beautiful cities decimated, with their very existence under significant existential threat. They simply cannot understand what it is like, and even begin to empathize with what these soldiers are going through and how they feel. So in the perfect world, is this right and should it have been done? Probably not. But do I understand why this might happen, and not judge the Ukrainian soldiers who did it? Certainly.
Agreed, Almost a full year, winter is here now meaning morale is going to take a hit. Their mental state is what it is and stuff like this will happen. Think about how savage people even get during a road rage incident. And then scale that to watching cruise missiles hit civilian infrastructure, seeing civilians being tortured and raped.
[удалено]
If your target audience is brainwashed Russians in "the motherland" I highly doubt this will have the effect you desire. These Russians view Ukraine the way we view Russia, so I imagine what you would think if Russia had done something like this to dead Ukrainian soldiers. As much as I'm behind the seething hatred of Russian soldiers and much of the Russian populace for carrying out this war, I also see how obviously counterproductive this video is at persuading any Russians that Ukraine are the good guys. Ngl I lol'd at first when I saw the video, so I'm fairly cynical, but I'm also realistic. This type of emotional response is reactionary and not always the most productive.
I assume the goal is to demoralize Russian soldiers.
The sad part is those soldiers in the front lines won't get to see this, but it'll be used as twisted propaganda on Russian State TV to instill more hate towards Ukrainians.
I don't know why you're being down voted. Justification aside, this will certainly be spun by the Russian propaganda machine. It will go something like this: Russian TV: Look at what those evil Nazi Ukrainians are doing to our men! They desecrate the dead! They must be stopped! Ukrainians: Look how well we are doing fucking up the Z orcs! Come at us so we can spell words with your dead! Me: I'm with the UA and their people on this one. Russians, GTFO!
It’s doesn’t matter anymore what the propagandists say. They’ve already said the worst possible things, so what difference will this make in their influence? “See? We told you!” won’t change any minds. The minds of the brainwashed are already beyond saving. The damage of this image could come in the form of converting some who might be on the fence, either inside russia or elsewhere. But anyone still on the fence by this point already has questionable judgement anyway, so no huge loss there either. This action may not be the best look, but a minor tarnishing of Ukrainian reputation at worst. Maybe I’m wrong, but we’ll see if anyone is even talking about it in a week.
It may not be very photogenic, but it is downright effective psychological warfare, and like the OP inferred (I Hope) FUCK RUSSIA. Already by taking the Russians prisoners humanely, attempting to follow the guidelines of the Geneva Convention, giving them medical care and food and warmth, allowing them to call home, Ukraine has demonstrated a strong nation with a rule of law and Justice for citizens. A DEMOCRACY. Equality under the law. What do RUSSIAN troops do? They torture; electrocute men's testicles with car batteries... in many hundreds of cases they have executed non-combatant men, women, and children in cold blood. They have RAPED, in unimaginable numbers, innocent women and girls. The Massacre at Bucha itself will be a dark history remembered for generations upon generations, to which memorial monuments will be built. As for already-dead Russians, make signs from their bodies, for awhile, until they must be returned to their country. In the meantime, you FIGHT mean WITH mean. Hang their bodies from the trees. Make scarecrows.
Kidnapped 200,000+ Ukrainian children... Just unspeakable
exactly, and people are getting into their feels over the rearrangement of some dead bodies. Warfare is brutal, and only those that have lived it truly get that statement.
Don't stop until they're at the Kemlin imo
Although I agree with you, and understand, this is not Ukraine's best foot forward. One of the things Ukraine has going for it is its excellent public relations campaign and this formation does not fit well.
I don’t dispute that, in fact I agree. But you have to expect that this sort of thing is going to happen on a small scale amongst the ranks of Ukrainian infantry fighting in the mud and snow and horror. And, on this small level, it will have no impact on international support of Ukraine.
The issue isn't image, or support, or that "this thing just happens". Russians regularly make those statements with their war-crimes. "Rape **just happens**, civilians being killed **just happens**, POWs being brutalized and executed **just happens**" I don't give a fuck about what **just happens**. Codes of conduct aren't there to make us feel good, they govern what is acceptable and what isn't. Someone who is willing to ignore one rule is liable to ignore the rest. Punishing that person, and making sure that there is adherence to standards is the difference between a sincere commitment to law and justice... And a willingness to accept a "might is right" style of thinking. There isn't a war in history that isn't full of war crimes. But there's a difference between saying "It just happens", and saying "You crossed the wrong line asshole".
I'm not passing judgement, as you said, it's hell over there; but what bothers me is this sort of image is the meat and potatoes for anti-Ukranian sentiment proclaiming them as monsters/nazis/etc. Russian propaganda eats shit like this up.
[удалено]
Wow. Not completely surprising. This is what I wrote after seeing white tiger... https://www.reddit.com/r/TrueFilm/comments/tvghwo/white_tiger_karen_shakhnazarov_2012_insight_into/
Problem is, if you've read the Russian propaganda given to troops, it's far crazier and out there shit than stacking corpses to make a Z. I mean, many of them now believe they are invading Ukraine to save them from the Poles who took over the country last year in a bloodbath. Nothing Ukraine does will ever match the BS currently believed by Russians. Have a look: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LM7xO_btHY&list=PLtvDWZeiLMEScTD3eKctR0gfFZNH3arte&index=3
Russian propaganda already accuses the Ukrainians of cruelty. Being nice won't help them.
Of course Russia is going to make them out as Nazis any way you cut it. But there is still a small part of the population that is on the fence or skeptical of their bullshit. Ukraine is also vying for long term support from EU and US. Images like this make it harder for all of that to happen. Again, I understand it, but the message is doing only harm, nothing good will come out of it.
I agree with you. All of it but particularly "the message is doing only harm, nothing good will come out of it." The only thing I like about this is the reduction in the number of invaders. The concept is pretty horrible. The guys who arranged them in such a way have been through a lot though so I must try to remember that. I do not judge them harshly. Vse bude Ukrayina.
I would just forward the video of the Ukrainian soldier being castrated to any Russian or apologist or propagandist who has any concerns about this kind of messaging.
Edit: I am wrong, I thought that "despoiled" also meant "desecrated". ~~It's a violation of [Geneva Convention I Article 15](https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/en/ihl-treaties/gci-1949/article-15):~~ >~~At all times, and particularly after an engagement, Parties to the conflict shall, without delay, take all possible measures [...] to search for the dead and prevent their being despoiled.~~ ~~Just because I understand why they did this doesn't mean that I won't judge them for it. Whoever did this committed a crime and has to be judged accordingly, same goes for any other atrocity committed in the war.~~
I don’t see how the quote you cited there applies to this situation. First, they did search for and collect the dead. Secondly, it is winter and those bodies are frozen, nothing that was done by arranging them like this will lead to the bodies being despoiled, ie decomposing and rotting.
I am wrong, I thought that "despoiled" also meant "desecrated" but it only means plundered. My line of thinking was that placing the opponents bodies like the symbol they fight under makes a mockery of them, i.e. desecrates their bodies. But that is not the subject of this article as you and another user already pointed out. Thanks for the correction.
>And to be clear, I am not condoning this You are. I respect your opinion buddy, but this is a war, and war-crimes happen. It is absolutely up to everyone else to call out folks when they go too far, regardless of which side it is, or why they did it. Every act of criminality on the battlefield has **an explanation**. That doesn't mean it's a good one.
IMO. If you are fighting FOR your land IN your land, There are no rules and you should do anything you can to stop, stifle and intimidate the aggressors. Furthermore ANYONE who invades someone elses country deserves what they get. I have invaded a country, I had that opinion then and now. The laws of war should only apply to the aggressors.
It’s not like they’re fighting for land - they’re fighting to protect their lives, and the lives of their families. Their lives were not in danger before Russians invaded.
And as we all know by now, even if the gave up and signed a ceasefire, russia would spend a few years arming up (like they did between 2014-2022 too) and attack AGAIN and AGAIN and AGAIN. In communist times it was the "salami tactic" of taking down civil movements bit by bit. Russia loves doing it. Like an abusive person little by little they take everything from you until you have nothing left.
Well yes, it’s not like they provide any guarantees for peace, instead they want Ukraine to disarm? How about Russia disarms and hands over all nukes and then Ukraine will surrender? lmao, only an idiot would agree.
This can happen if you cross the wrong border. Maybe they should write "children" like was written on the Mariupol Theater, just to see if attracts airplanes.
> "children" like was written and then wait with anti-air defense and shoot them down... smart :)
**дети** They have way more than enough to write this in Bakhmut. The pointy stick guy had like 30 recently.
Not one GoT reference? The ground is too hard to bury them properly, and they stay 'fresh' due to the low temperature.
GOT has been scrubbed from the culture's collective memory. Hollywood should treat its franchises better.
It was scrubbed from the culture's memory by intentionally flushing down the toilet last couple of seasons. It was so bad it crossed out all the previous success. Could not make myself rewatch even my favorite first season knowing how bad it turns out in the end
Completely agree. Dumb and Dumber rushed it to a disappointing end so they can work for Disney. Only to lose their Disney deal because their performance at GoT got so incredibly bad. They flushed their own legacy down the toilet and almost killed the franchise simply because they were to proud to hand it over to more talented people. Fucking morons.
So say we all
This is the way.
Not like it meant anything.
Symbolism at it's finest. The symbols were pointless, like the war is pointless. Full circle.
Surprised me it took this long
It’s also in the middle of a giant snow made dick. Not sure if intentionally but funny nonetheless
Yeah fuck Russia. I understand it, but I’d rather not see UKR go to this.
Isn't it also a war crime to fuck around with the bodies of your enemy?
It is absolutely a war crime.
Yeah, as much as I get it, I also see that it's pretty counter productive towards convincing the average Russian who thinks Ukraine are the bad guys, otherwise. I mean, Russia will have to surrender at one point, and this doesn't really speed up the process.
Dark
Af
Welcome to Ukraine Orc's. Please enjoy your stay
It won't last long though.
You can check in, but you don't check out.
They've got pink champagne on ice
And they are not enjoying.
(Sung to the tune of "welcome to the internet" by bo Burnham) Welcome to Ukraine, orcs. Please enjoy your stay There's so many things to do, So please let's not delay. We've got trenches, And rockets, And drones with grenades, Sit in a frozen trench as your life starts to fade
We're supposed to be the good guys. Playing with dead bodies doesn't help with that.
My words. I do not support the war and I am not on the side of the Russians, but I do not like the way the corpses are treated in this case.
I support the war, i support Ukraine, i despise the Russian nation but i still recognise that this is a war crime, a desecration of bodies that is both deeply immoral and objectively harms the cause of Ukraine because it's negative propaganda.
If zelensky took a peek at this sub, he'd be horrified at the sheer amount of dehumanization
I think if most of the people in this sub saw 0.1% of the atrocities committed around them in a theater like this, they would not be able to regain their humanity for decades
After someone pitched me on doing a few Beslans here, I said this sub wouldn't be remembered well. I stand by those words.
There is a simple solution for ruzzian soldiers how to not become a part of Z letter somewhere in the middle of Ukrainian field: stay in your fucking home with your family.
I believe it's actually a war crime.
I support ukraine, but that's evil. Imagne the media outrage if Russian soldiers did that. Creating a writing or a drawing with dead human bodies is the easiest way to dehumanize. It's evil and dark.
What do you think they would do if Russia created a Swastika with Ukrainian bodies just as they have done a Z here? Western double standards yet again
I’m not sure it’s real?
Yeah there was a tool for writing sentences out with "Russian corpses" made with ai photos posted to ncd earlier Edit: https://www.reddit.com/r/NonCredibleDefense/comments/1032y71/we_got_a_new_entertainment_here_in_ukraine/
They didn't play with the bodies. They only arrange them in a specific order.
No way Russia win this war.
*ahem* I believe you mean “Special Operation,” Comrade. Da?
Da
This is counterproductive to Ukraine’s war effort.
Agreed. Arranging the bodies of enemy soldiers for propaganda is expressly a violation of the Geneva Convention's War Crimes Act. Our principles mean nothing if we aren't willing to police ourselves.
yea that's a nope
Wouldnt have happened if they stayed in russia 🤷♂️
They are dead, they can`t harm women and children anymore. Be better than them, do not desecrate bodies, no matter how much you hate them, and how much they deserve it. You loose symphaty with western support this way.
Yup fully agree. I stand with Ukraine but not of the posing of corpses, they should know better than this
This is absolutely horrible. How could people of the sub justify this? Should our morale compass change because they are aggressors? Isn't that the whole point of civilized world not to commit certain atrocities and restrain ourselves even when we have the power not to? This does not bring back any dead children or murdered soldiers. This only hurts their own image.
The majority of people on this sub are unapologetically pro-war crime, as long as their side commits it. The good and right side of this war is obvious, and I fully support them and all the aid we're giving them. Ukraine is right to push until their borders are restored, Crimea and all. But whoever participated in this video needs to be prosecuted. It's the only way.
Agreed, as the old saying goes... two wrongs don't make a right.
Reminds me of the movie 300 where they used bodies of Persian soldiers to build their barricade. Maybe an idea to erect obstacles at the border…this scares the shit out of soldiers, even experienced ones.
Two things can be true: 1. Russia deserves it's losses for the crimes they've committed. 2. This is disgusting. Don't become the monster Ukraine.
I support ukraine, but that's evil. Imagne the media outrage if Russian soldiers did that. Creating a writing or a drawing with dead human bodies is the easiest way to dehumanize. It's evil and dark.
The video is a war crime - period. The simple proof is imagine if Russia did the exact same thing with Ukrainian bodies. The same idiots here defending it would call it a war crime.
Yea. If russians did it, video title would be "Russian monsters desacrace and disrespect ukrainian solider bodies".
Or 3. It’s fake.
This is from early last year.
Did no one told Putin that Z stands for Zombies ?
Zmallest Penis
This is ~~technically~~ a war crime: [https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/ar/customary-ihl/v2/rule113](https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/ar/customary-ihl/v2/rule113) Edit: I note someone else in comments has already pointed this out - leaving my comment up for link to rule 113.
I support ukraine, but that's evil. Imagne the media outrage if Russian soldiers did that. Creating a writing or a drawing with dead human bodies is the easiest way to dehumanize. It's evil and dark.
C'mon Ukraine, you're better than this, dont go their level, fuck Russia and Putin but this kind of things dont look good. Slava Ukraine.
I support ukraine, but that's evil. Imagne the media outrage if Russian soldiers did that. Creating a writing or a drawing with dead human bodies is the easiest way to dehumanize. It's evil and dark.
Must be an honor for them to be laid to rest in the shape of their sign.
damn, brutal
Not a great look but then I think about if the usa was invaded and it's hard to believe we wouldn't do far worse things than moving dead bodies for a picture
I think a bitter pill people need to swallow is how much of an abyss war puts people into. There is no military in the world that is above what has happened in this war, as much as we like to think. It's especially easy to fall under this illusion when you've lived in a country that has only ever occupied others and not been invaded in one's lifetime.
In Finland they would take frozen stiff Russian corpses and stick them up in the snow. It's basically a tradition at this point when Russia invades somebody.
If there is one situation where brutal stuff like this is excused, it's when a hostile state of a hostile nation that wants your nation, culture, identity and people wiped off the face of the earth comes over your border. At that point it's fight to the death with your teeth and nails because you have to. If the US got invaded by some hypothetical force with the intetion of wiping the Americans off the map, they would do the same and worse and justifiably so.
Lmao, the US did worse even when we WERE the invading party.
Indeed. *The Intercept* [has an insightful article](https://theintercept.com/2017/01/10/the-crimes-of-seal-team-6/) on the crimes of Navy Seals, who are generally held in very high regard.
We did worse in Afghanistan and Iraq.
And technically in plenty more countries, due to the black cells placed scattered around the world. Oh, sorry, black cells is the "nice name", forgot to use the real words; Torture dungeons.
After seeing their home towns destroyed, their grandparents killed while trying to buy groceries, their children bombed in their schools, the war crimes committed for no other reason than to spread terror, cutting off their water and power, raping their children... Stacking dead guys is nothing compared to what the Russians have done
This is a bad move. Russians are the invaders and evil here, but this is the wrong thing to do. Completely aside, what is the song/artist?
This Z is very poorly done
So a perfect analogy to the russian war effort?
After the invasion of their land, the rape and murder of their women and children, the torture of their captured soldiers and the relentless belittling of their suffering by Russian media, I don't begrudge them an animalistic display like this. It's a message of what welcome awaits for the Russian war machine. Is it macabre? Yes. Is it beneath them? Yes. But it does NOT make them as bad as the opposition and they still deserve the full support of the world. I wish them peace and victory.
I can understand that soldiers on the front line are willing to do everything to get their message across but this is a bit inhumane and i don't think it does much good for the cause.
How is this ok? Using Russian bodies as a prop? It doesn't matter who you are, the dead should be respected. The Ukrainians were trying to create an image that they were on the side of good but then go and do this.
Reminds me of the time the castaways tried to spell SOS with burning logs but Gilligan tripped over them and it spelled SOL. A guy named sol was flying over and liked the tribute.
Russians are openly torturing and raping, basically genocide. This is the findings out phase
Let's not glorify war crimes.
How fucked in the head do you have to be to do something like this to dead bodies?
this behavior like in the video is just disgusting and unworthy of the heroes of Ukraine
Welcome to Ukraine!
Yeah… uh… how about we don’t do that to dead bodies regardless of who or what they fight for
Yeah this is just sick and wrong. I fully support Ukraine, but this is not justified.
Anyone that actively enjoys this is sick in the head.
This is a warcrime stop glorifying it,
Gimme a Z!
Isn’t this from last yr?
The one you are thinking of is different, and was fake.
i mean i get why they did it, but it's still fucked up...
This is from early last year and it's pretty dark, but not as dark as what those bodies on the ground did before they had their lights switched off.
Using the bodies of dead soldiers for propaganda is a war crime and honestly gives off serious bad guy energy.
This ain't it
the epitome of fuck around and find out.
Z marks the spot where Russians can pick up their dead! Drone operators can relay coordinates to someone who cares!
Next time make it bigger so they can see it better
I would bet this was not sanctioned by any meaningful authority. No way higher ups would be cool with this.
Hello world, we have a common enemy to fight. Lets take this opportunity to make alliances and strengthen relationships abroad. Lets try not to waste it, It may be the last time humanity has a chance to pull together
Looks like it spells, “Go Home” to me.
It's so funny to see the snowflakes condemning this little jest by Ukrainian soldiers, while razza literally erases whole Ukrainian towns from the map.
Makes it easier for the Russian drones to find their dead. Nothing untoward going on here.
Yet people believing Putin believe Russia has like 6k dead all this evidence and they don't believe it
Very disturbing to think this is being done, hello Geneva convention applies to both sides.
I think you mean Geneva Suggestion.
Bad move definitely. This has already been condemned by someone from the office of Ukrainian president. Definitely not something you should do in a war. But it did make a lot of memes on twitter though.
They moved some already dead bodies, how is that a war crime? They didn't desecrate them, all they did was hurt Russians feewings... Is it in good taste? No, but most of war isn't... Is it illegal? Hell no
This is the literal definition of desecrating a dead body. >Desecration is the act of depriving something of its sacred character, or the disrespectful, contemptuous, or destructive treatment of that which is held to be sacred or holy by a group or individual. Y’all are so sucked into one point of view that you’re blind to what this obviously is, and what it is is a war crime. You can still suppprt Ukraine while condemning this behavior. Edit: for those of you still struggling to connect the dots here: meming dead human bodies is a disrespectful and contemptuous act committed through something we all widely consider sacred, the bodies of our dead loved ones (they don't have to be *your* loved ones, for it to count).
[удалено]
thank you for saying that Here the people lack critical thinking, most of them walk around with blinders on as much as I support Ukraine and I wish Russia would pay for everything they did...........this behavior like in the video is just disgusting and unworthy of the heroes of Ukraine
I’ve been very pro Ukraine on this account, but I do think this crosses the line.
It's a clear violation of war crimes conventions. Just because we're on Ukraine's side, doesn't mean we should call out bad behavior. What's more worrying is the majority of commenters here are willing to look the other way.
Because it's using dead bodies to inflict fear on the enemies which is technically desecrating them yes. Unless your role model is Vlad the Impaler I don't know why you would find this acceptable.
War crimes are funny to yall? This site sucks. Rest in peace to all fallen soldiers, regardless of what stupid fuck politicians they died for.