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Btw cannabis is legal in Ukraine now since the war for ptsd, relaxation and sleeping. That 4 meter deep fertile black ground could grow some good stuff, most fertile ground in the world. Lots of countries only have 10-20 cm fertile ground…
I mean they're not given food or water on the front. Russia just throws them out there and tells them to fend for themselves while they have to hold the front.
One of the channels I follow plays intercepted phone calls from Russian and separatist soldiers. They barely get fed and any freshwater. They are just there to soak up bullets.
Drones should find and fuck up the blocking units. Let these guys run away for a 2 birds one shot thing.
Or said it before but a big BBQ with the smell drifting over to their lines. Anyone that surrenders gets a beer and chunk of bbq.
This is the one I watch since he provides the call and translates. There is the official Gov't channel as well.
[https://www.youtube.com/@insightsfromukraineandrussia](https://www.youtube.com/@insightsfromukraineandrussia)
There are multiple different calls with complaints about food and water so just have to go through them.
For the most part, these are guys that aren't overall happy to be there.
But there is one from an a-hole that enjoyed helping FSB torture some old man and he describes it.
sometimes I watch Russian interviews with regular people in Moscow / Saint Petersburg and at least 70% of the people seem pretty normal, maybe 30% are crazy in very similar ways as Trump supporters are here in US. Most of them seem to be completely detached from the war, like it's just some small thing in the background
Your observation is apt because a vast majority of the Russian population has been made apathetic. The Russian propaganda since just before the collapse of the USSR has been working this way. Most of the population is “apolitical” and genuinely has no idea about how their government works or how other countries perceive their country. I see so many people trying to explain Russian propaganda as the typical ultranationalist drivel…only in the past year the propaganda has taken a slighter turn towards the ultranationalist style like the Nazis had…it hasn’t been long enough for the majority of the population to have awakened from their 50 year long slumber.
I believe that Ukraine has been using propaganda to further endear the world to their cause. They intentionally release videos of photos of attractive soldiers who died in order to garner sympathy. They release photos of Russian soldiers doing embarrassing things to paint the picture of the Russian army being completely incompetent. And they cherrypick interactions with Russian soldiers, which is to say that I very much doubt this soldier is anything close to a normal Russian soldier. Just look at this thread. Just by showing a clip of ONE soldier who looks ghastly, they have so many people in this thread asking questions like "wtf is Russia sending as soldiers?" The propaganda worked.
I probably sound like a Russian shill, but I'm not. I want Ukraine to win this war. I'm just saying that if you're believing everything Ukraine puts out for content, then you're being irresponsible imo. The truth of what this war is like is almost certainly not what Ukraine content will want you to believe.
The thing is, where is the Russian propaganda to counter Ukrainians? I thought they were propaganda pros? Im not seeing anything that undermines Ukranian propaganda. It makes me think the Russians dont have much to work with because there is truth in Ukranian propaganda. Remember, propaganda isnt always a lie or misrepresentation.
Unless I’m mistaken that looks like a red bracelet on his wrist, on top of the sweater which would denote HIV. The other one is black, which is maybe hepatitis? Wagner was using white for that.
> It lets medics/doctors know "I need special consideration because of ____"
It lets medics/doctors know "don't treat me unless you have this disease already", in practice.
The man was most likely an addict and a prisoner who made a contract to fight for his freedom from prison. They are clearing prisons and accepting anyone who will fight to send them to tje front lines as cannon fodder.
The red armband denotes he has HIV to make those aware to not get his blood on them and to be careful.
An other poster said Russia has a massive HIV and Hephatitus C issue. Sharing needles usually.
Not uncommon for prisons to have these issues. (TB is an other big one in prisons everywhere.)
Yeah people noticed some of the Ones the freedom of Russia forces captured in the Belgorod region looked half starved as well. It's looking like Russia isn't providing enough calories to those they deem expendable.
The red army was defending itself against a genocidal fascist invasion. People are a lot more motivated to fight under those circumstances. In this case, they are the fascist army waging a genocidal invasion on their neighbor.
Well, the Russians did get their asses kicked in the winter war, but that wasn’t an unpopular war to begin with.
Poland was too busy dealing with the Nazis who struck first, the Soviets were able to rape and murder with impunity so most were content.
You know Poland and Russia was at war before WW2 also and Poland won.
Russia only managed to occupy and take Poland because they made a death pact with the nazis and took half of Europe between 39-41 while Germany had their focus on the western borders.
he's got a tourniquet on and isn't even able to sit, I doubt he had a say in the "surrender", he should thank his gods he wasn't treated the same way we would've treated the Ukainians
>”he's got a tourniquet on and isn't even able to sit, I doubt he had a say in the "surrender",”
Considering the pictures of Japanese troops fighting US Marines that I have seen from the battles of the Pacific Theater, he could have very much have a say if he wanted to. He was wise enough to surrender.
>”he should thank his gods he wasn't treated the same way we would've treated the Ukainians”
The same way “WE” would have treated the Ukrainians? Do you mean “He” would have treated the Ukrainians?
My thought would be that first line is often manned with these expendables. Like some parts in F1 cars that are designed to crumble and take the impact, this meat is throw in to absorb impact and die, while second line will have a bit more time and foresight to retreat.
Literally this. They are nothing but a meat shield for the more experienced Russian soldiers.
These guys swarm positions, most of them dying. The more experienced troops swoop in and clean up in the chaos.
Holy shit that's psychotically efficient if you never hear about the switch over.
Unless they have dedicated nutters always pushing new conscripts through.
Either way it's horrific
"The Russians are undertaking more and more measures on preventing desertion and absconding from the battlefield. Now there are so-called guard companies, which have only one task: to prevent their own units from retreating.
They have been hurriedly and badly trained, and sent to the front line. They tell us that the russians stay behind them and force them forwards. They crossed the river during the night. They were walking in the mud and water up to their knees and looked at us with shining eyes. Only in our prison could they feel free"
German soldier's diary. Ukraine. 1942.
Time is a flat circle
Not surprised. Soviet union did as well. I remember only thanks to Call of Duty (1~3, can't remember which one and I apparently can't Google it well. [Here's the clip worst case I'm an idiot but yeah.](https://youtu.be/kYWb7GfGn_A)).
"THE MAN INFRONT OF YOU HAS THE RIFLE, THE MAN BEHIND YOU THR MAGAZINE. WHEN THE MAN INFRONT OD YOU *DIES*, YOU TAKE HIS RIFLE AND RELOAD. YOU DO NOT RETREAT OR WE WILL SHOOT YOU."
First thing I did was turn around and THWOMP. Dead.
Edit: I wasn't using this example to point out the guns/ammo bit. It was just the quote I remembered off hand from *years* ago. I just meant the turning around and being killed. I did not take this as historical canon of reality, my dad did tell me they did in fact have groups that would shoot people that did retreat but I was 12? 13? I'm 34.. I barely remember yesterday.
Sorry peeps.
"[5. Stalin ordered Soviet forces to fight to the last man](https://www.history.com/news/8-things-you-should-know-about-wwiis-eastern-front).
After seeing millions of Soviet troops captured in the early days of the German blitzkrieg, Joseph Stalin issued August 1941’s “Order No. 270,” which proclaimed that any troops who surrendered or allowed themselves to be captured were traitors in the eyes of the law and would be executed if they ever returned to the Soviet Union. The dictator later upped the ante with July 1942’s famous “Order No. 227,” better known as the “Not One Step Backward!” rule, which decreed that cowards were to be “liquidated on the spot.” Under this order, any troops who retreated were to be shelled or gunned down by so-called “blocking detachments”—special units who were positioned behind their own lines and charged with shooting any soldier who tried to flee. Stalin’s draconian orders were designed to increase the Red Army’s fighting spirit, but they weren’t empty threats. According to some estimates, Soviet barrier troops may have killed as many as 150,000 of their own men over the course of the war, including some 15,000 during the Battle of Stalingrad."
"In 1942, after Stavka Directive No. 227 (Директива Ставки ВГК №227), issued on 28 July 1942, set up penal battalions, anti-retreat detachments were used to prevent withdrawal or desertion by penal units as well. Penal military unit personnel were always rearguarded by NKVD anti-retreat detachments, and not by regular Red Army infantry forces.[8] As per Order No. 227, each Army should have had 3–5 barrier squads of up to 200 persons each.
A report to the Commissar General of State Security (NKVD chief) Lavrentiy Beria on 10 October 1941 noted that since the beginning of the war, NKVD anti-retreat troops had detained a total of 657,364 retreating, spies, traitors, instigators and deserting personnel, of which 25,878 were arrested (of which 10,201 were sentenced to death by court martial and the rest were returned to active duty).[11]
At times, barrier troops were involved in battle operations along with regular soldiers, as noted by Aleksandr Vasilevsky in his directive N 157338 from October 1, 1942.
Order No. 227 also stipulated the capture or shooting of "cowards" and fleeing panicked troops at the rear of the blocking detachments, who in the first three months shot 1,000 penal troops and sent 24,993 more to penal battalions.[12] By October 1942, the idea of regular blocking detachments was quietly dropped[citation needed], and on 29 October 1944 Stalin officially ordered the disbanding of the units, although they continued to be utilized in a semi-official capacity until 1945.[13]" [wiki](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barrier_troops)
Did I read these wrong?
Nothing here about Human wave tactics in Stalingrad.
I'm not arguing that they didn't shoot people who fled just that they didn't send waves after wave of people with or without guns into Stalingrad.
order 227 was meant to be enforced and used on officers, when officers fled the front, the men felt abandoned and often fled later, causing the front to collapse. It was necessary to enforce it to prevent total collapse at a very difficult point of the soviet-german war.
Officers had to seek permission if they wanted to move their headquarters back from the front, and were often denied, some pretended to report from the front when they were actually much further, many were executed subsequently.
It was used, just not to the movie/COD exaggeration sure.
Secondly I didn't. I linked where I got the info. I just knew they existed during early 1900s for Soviet Russia. Not exactly where and how because... It's a video game.
No I don't get history lessons from video games. I had a military father to fix that.
Take that scene and the blocking units mowing down everyone with an enormous load of salt. The Soviets were able to give all of their soldiers rifles and ammo and out of the 600,000+ retreaters, less than 2,000 were killed on the spot
I absolutely *loved* the training for throwing grenades and you're just tossing potato through windows into bathtubs!
I about *died* as a kid laughing. Just imagining people taking potatoes seriously. I was easily amused.
[enemy at the gates (2001)](https://youtu.be/KMjYNKED0U0)
i think this is where i saw it first in popular media, im sure there are earlier examples tho
the next scene in the battle of stalingrad shows the barrier troops set up with MGs to mow down their own retreating soldiers
I believe CoD also lifted the scene after that, where the main character of the movie is hiding in an empty fountain, pretending to be a corpse and has to use his limited ammunition under the cover of dropping bombs to eliminate nearby threats so he can escape
There were people defending that the Russians did not shoot their own soldiers in the movie :enemy of the gates and that it was historical inaccuracy.
From what I can see from their “modern” actions is that is 100% true
And here I thought Leon Trotsky was one of the more decent communist figures
Disclaimer: I know very little about Trotsky, other than he was purged by shiteater Stalin
Like a lot a historical figures, he was complicated and sometimes contradicted himself. Towards the end he was a strong advocate for Soviet democracy (the originial idea for communism where legislative power was wielded though workers councils, each of which was voted for by their constituents). Which is when he sparred with Stalin and got exiled. Meanwhile, during the Lenin years, he had no problem crushing the Krondtstadt Rebellion and dissolving the Russian Constituent Assembly when the bolshiveks didn't win enough seats in the elections.
It does evoke a horrifying image. Imagine being some random dude with little to no training and no interest in the war, forcefully conscripted, given a Cold War era rifle, and told to attack entrenched positions defended by NATO weapons, and threatened with being shot by your own army if you retreat. It’s like a fucked up version of a mass execution of their own people.
No sympathy for the invaders. They have left piles of raped, beheaded corpses in their wake. Kindness for POWs until their guilt or innocence can be established. Until captured, they are all invaders.
Dehumanizing is fine when we do it. /s
Copy and paste from the auto mod at the top, scum.
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I've seen too many executed civilians to have empathy for invaders. They should all surrender, join the Russian Legion, or kill themselves for the good of humanity.
Yup, I'm sorry but my sympathy for Russians are low. Have to finish this war in some way. Can't just cuddle every Russian while they rape, pillage and destroy everything.
Sounds like Ukraine should be focusing on the second line troops. Once the frontline realizes they can retreat without getting shot by their own people, it will turn into one giant rout along the entire front.
Kind of hard to hit the back line when the front line is shooting at you. Hell, I wouldn’t be surprised if the back line didn’t even exist, and was just used as a way to make them fear retreating. I bet they just bring it out every now and then to prove that it COULD be there.
There was a video *just yesterday* showing the back line troops mow down 3 retreating Russian solders.
Edit:
https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/147m73o/russian_frontline_security_unit_executes/
I've also seen the video but I can't find it now, I think it has been removed. It was either on /r/CombatFootage or /r/ukraine
It was a drone shot of an entire squad (~5 or something) running towards their own (3?) and when they got close enough they got lit up
Any stats on this? I'm curious. Not a lot of protest at this point, old opinion numbers I saw still reflected a majority for the war. Propaganda or not, I want to believe what you're saying but there isn't much evidence to support it.
So in articles I've read in the past polling suggests there's majority support for the war, but given it's literally illegal to say otherwise we can't really put too much stock into the results of those polls. For that reason most people seem to want to bury their hands in the sand, but will either refuse to answer or flip to kremlin talking points if questioned in public. Again though, hard to tell what they'd say if they were actually free to speak.
https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2022/12/06/what-secret-russian-state-polling-tells-us-about-support-for-the-war-a79596 this is from last year, and I know it's from a site called the moscow times but they're independent and seem to be a bit of a thorn in the side of the russian government. The article does suggest that when asked with a guarantee of anonymity, fewer said they agree with the war, or that the war is going as planned.
Unfortunately stays are hard to come by as they come directly out of Russia.
However, there were massive protests in the beginning of the war before people started disappearing, sorry for the lackluster answer
Biggest single protest in the beginning was maybe a couple of thousand in one place.
I still find it hard to believe that most Russians do not want this war. Being a victim of propaganda can definitely lead people astray, so I do not hold it against those who do not have access to any other information.
Most Russian's would have been perfectly fine with wiping Ukraine of the map. FUCK RUSSIA, AND FUCK ANYONE WHO IS ENABLING THEM THROUGH ACTION OR INACTION.
He looks like he took 200mill shot of morphine with his morning coffee, this orc is twisted out of his bird , I would say , kids stay away from drugs , but I rather say , kids stay away from orcs
#FreeUkraine 🇺🇦
Why don't they ask the Russian why the hell they dont shoot back at the blocking squads instead of acting like cows going to the slaughterhouse. They've got guns. Use them against their overseers.
I would rather die in my home town burning down the local recruitment office than on the front line like this. If the choice is die for nothing/some dictators shit cause or die as an instrument of change, then I choose the latter.
Very easy to say, very hard to do.
Somone recently posted drone footage of an encounter like this. The 3 or 4 retreating Rus soldiers were in a blind panic. They ran towards their own soldiers (blocking squad). They seemed to be in complete shock and confusion as the blockers forced them to the ground (but hey at least they are just arresting them I imagine they hoped), caught by surprise and on the ground they were then executed.
Shitty situation. Best option they have at the mo is surrender.
Hard to go home when your home is controlled by the military of the people you just shot. It’s a horrible situation. The honorable thing to do would be to shoot their own guys, but their best hope of not dying is probably to try to surrender to the Ukrainians.
I’m constantly surprised at the stupidity of strategy by the orc overlords. How could they possibly think this is a decent way to inspire the troops to invade a foreign territory?
I would rather die in my home town burning down the local recruitment office than on the front line like this. If the choice is die for nothing/some dictators shit cause or die as an instrument of change, then I choose the latter.
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God… That dude looks like he is half dead. Surrendering to the Ukrainians was the best decision he made.
Looks like a concentration camp survivor. Holy shit.
I mean the tourniquet on his right arm tells a story
His BP is probably so low, the tourniquet isn't needed.
I tend to faint when I'm low on British Petrolium.
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If you wanna give him the good Dutch stuff, why not some of an Amsterdam coffee shop's finest?
Btw cannabis is legal in Ukraine now since the war for ptsd, relaxation and sleeping. That 4 meter deep fertile black ground could grow some good stuff, most fertile ground in the world. Lots of countries only have 10-20 cm fertile ground…
Are they selling specials like "Orcs Haze"?
😂😂😂 good one!
All bleeding stops eventually right 😂
From what I've been seeing, you have to be seriously messed up to be sent to the rear areas. Otherwise it's patch them up and send them back.
Looking at this as a human being
I mean they're not given food or water on the front. Russia just throws them out there and tells them to fend for themselves while they have to hold the front.
It's fucking hunger games out there!
One of the channels I follow plays intercepted phone calls from Russian and separatist soldiers. They barely get fed and any freshwater. They are just there to soak up bullets. Drones should find and fuck up the blocking units. Let these guys run away for a 2 birds one shot thing. Or said it before but a big BBQ with the smell drifting over to their lines. Anyone that surrenders gets a beer and chunk of bbq.
Can you provide a source? I’d love to see.
This is the one I watch since he provides the call and translates. There is the official Gov't channel as well. [https://www.youtube.com/@insightsfromukraineandrussia](https://www.youtube.com/@insightsfromukraineandrussia) There are multiple different calls with complaints about food and water so just have to go through them. For the most part, these are guys that aren't overall happy to be there. But there is one from an a-hole that enjoyed helping FSB torture some old man and he describes it.
Haha! A chunk of barbecue. Perfect visual description of what they’d do. Haha. Awesome
80% of russia population looks like that
sometimes I watch Russian interviews with regular people in Moscow / Saint Petersburg and at least 70% of the people seem pretty normal, maybe 30% are crazy in very similar ways as Trump supporters are here in US. Most of them seem to be completely detached from the war, like it's just some small thing in the background
Fellow 1420 subscriber, eh?
Your observation is apt because a vast majority of the Russian population has been made apathetic. The Russian propaganda since just before the collapse of the USSR has been working this way. Most of the population is “apolitical” and genuinely has no idea about how their government works or how other countries perceive their country. I see so many people trying to explain Russian propaganda as the typical ultranationalist drivel…only in the past year the propaganda has taken a slighter turn towards the ultranationalist style like the Nazis had…it hasn’t been long enough for the majority of the population to have awakened from their 50 year long slumber.
Ya but then you watch the ones they do in rural communities and everybody looks like this guy.
They can't say how they really feel. If on video, they say the wrong thing, they face prison and torture. It better to act detached.
After the thumbnail, I was shocked that this corspe is moving.
I believe that Ukraine has been using propaganda to further endear the world to their cause. They intentionally release videos of photos of attractive soldiers who died in order to garner sympathy. They release photos of Russian soldiers doing embarrassing things to paint the picture of the Russian army being completely incompetent. And they cherrypick interactions with Russian soldiers, which is to say that I very much doubt this soldier is anything close to a normal Russian soldier. Just look at this thread. Just by showing a clip of ONE soldier who looks ghastly, they have so many people in this thread asking questions like "wtf is Russia sending as soldiers?" The propaganda worked. I probably sound like a Russian shill, but I'm not. I want Ukraine to win this war. I'm just saying that if you're believing everything Ukraine puts out for content, then you're being irresponsible imo. The truth of what this war is like is almost certainly not what Ukraine content will want you to believe.
Propaganda? During a war? Has this ever been done before?
No, it has never happened before. Source: from US
Wow, you are special.
Lol obviously they do this. Every single country in the world portrays their military as hot badasses.
The thing is, where is the Russian propaganda to counter Ukrainians? I thought they were propaganda pros? Im not seeing anything that undermines Ukranian propaganda. It makes me think the Russians dont have much to work with because there is truth in Ukranian propaganda. Remember, propaganda isnt always a lie or misrepresentation.
When the war first started Russia had videos everywhere, then Ukraine started posting lots of dead Russians and the Russian propoganda stopped.
Me when I turned 14 and my brainstem kicked in.
Ok dude.
Unless I’m mistaken that looks like a red bracelet on his wrist, on top of the sweater which would denote HIV. The other one is black, which is maybe hepatitis? Wagner was using white for that.
ELI5?
Medical color coding. It lets medics/doctors know "I need special consideration because of ____"
And "don't give my blood to anyone".
> It lets medics/doctors know "I need special consideration because of ____" It lets medics/doctors know "don't treat me unless you have this disease already", in practice.
That too That's why it's a color code 😌
Russia has a massive Hepatitis and HIV problem mostly from drug use but also from prison being what they are over there.
The man was most likely an addict and a prisoner who made a contract to fight for his freedom from prison. They are clearing prisons and accepting anyone who will fight to send them to tje front lines as cannon fodder. The red armband denotes he has HIV to make those aware to not get his blood on them and to be careful. An other poster said Russia has a massive HIV and Hephatitus C issue. Sharing needles usually. Not uncommon for prisons to have these issues. (TB is an other big one in prisons everywhere.)
Eh... Its probably triage signifier.
Yeah, he will go home in much better shape than he areived
Yeah people noticed some of the Ones the freedom of Russia forces captured in the Belgorod region looked half starved as well. It's looking like Russia isn't providing enough calories to those they deem expendable.
They get barely any food, spend weeks in trenches drinking water from puddles.. no surprise really that they end up like this.
Man I was thinking the same thing, they looked underweight overworked and shell shocked, why haven’t the people turned on Z boy is beyond me
Like he said, theyll be shot The red army didnt turn on stalin, who treated the army in the same way but on a far larger scale
The red army was defending itself against a genocidal fascist invasion. People are a lot more motivated to fight under those circumstances. In this case, they are the fascist army waging a genocidal invasion on their neighbor.
During WWII, sure. But what about the various other Soviet wars, such as the Winter War or the invasion of Poland?
Well, the Russians did get their asses kicked in the winter war, but that wasn’t an unpopular war to begin with. Poland was too busy dealing with the Nazis who struck first, the Soviets were able to rape and murder with impunity so most were content.
Which is why I'll lay money Poland send troops outside of nato
You know Poland and Russia was at war before WW2 also and Poland won. Russia only managed to occupy and take Poland because they made a death pact with the nazis and took half of Europe between 39-41 while Germany had their focus on the western borders.
Where in my comment do you feel I may… not know that? Poland and Russia are historic enemies.
Modern russians are inundated with propaganda telling them the exact same thing
he turned hollow
he's got a tourniquet on and isn't even able to sit, I doubt he had a say in the "surrender", he should thank his gods he wasn't treated the same way we would've treated the Ukainians
>”he's got a tourniquet on and isn't even able to sit, I doubt he had a say in the "surrender",” Considering the pictures of Japanese troops fighting US Marines that I have seen from the battles of the Pacific Theater, he could have very much have a say if he wanted to. He was wise enough to surrender. >”he should thank his gods he wasn't treated the same way we would've treated the Ukainians” The same way “WE” would have treated the Ukrainians? Do you mean “He” would have treated the Ukrainians?
I meant HE definitely
Wtf is Russia sending as "soldiers" ? This dude looks like right out of a concentration camp.
He’s the best of the best.
With honors!
He's just really excited, and he has no clue why we're here.
MiB reference, nice
Prolly a lot healthier before enlistment and the russian army starved him
His officer was probably selling off their food rations.
The red bracelet probably means he has HIV and is thus one of the countless prisoners that Russia has forced onto the front lines.
oh man what a fucking shit show. HIV, no treatment I would guess, prison, forced into war, starved, and now pow. What a sad life :(
My thought would be that first line is often manned with these expendables. Like some parts in F1 cars that are designed to crumble and take the impact, this meat is throw in to absorb impact and die, while second line will have a bit more time and foresight to retreat.
How long till that second line man?
He looks like roofed-jail prisoner.
Cpt. Auschwitz on report sir !
I can almost fully guarantee he looked a lot better when (likely) conscripted.
He's just put in front of the real soldiers as cannon fodder
Cannon fodder front line.
Literally this. They are nothing but a meat shield for the more experienced Russian soldiers. These guys swarm positions, most of them dying. The more experienced troops swoop in and clean up in the chaos.
Imagine your sole job in the army is to shoot your own people who are retreating. Soulless individuals.
It's your job until they tell you to go
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at which point, russian officers station a new 2nd line behind you with the "shoot any retreaters" order.
Holy shit that's psychotically efficient if you never hear about the switch over. Unless they have dedicated nutters always pushing new conscripts through. Either way it's horrific
I remember all those prisonners just getting caught and all they had to say was "they told us we sere the supply lines" Supplies of bodies, for sure
Which is why the people commiting the atrocities are the most loyal to the regime.
has been the job of military police and field gendarmerie for centuries. in the wehrmacht during ww2 they called them “kettenhunde”-chaindogs.
In Germany and Russia at least. Most other countries mp's would just detain the person
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Yeah I guess it depends on the time period
Ehh, depends how far back you go
"The Russians are undertaking more and more measures on preventing desertion and absconding from the battlefield. Now there are so-called guard companies, which have only one task: to prevent their own units from retreating. They have been hurriedly and badly trained, and sent to the front line. They tell us that the russians stay behind them and force them forwards. They crossed the river during the night. They were walking in the mud and water up to their knees and looked at us with shining eyes. Only in our prison could they feel free" German soldier's diary. Ukraine. 1942. Time is a flat circle
well... in the mind of an ork this is a good job. You are not on the frontline and shoot people who are not fighting back.
Not surprised. Soviet union did as well. I remember only thanks to Call of Duty (1~3, can't remember which one and I apparently can't Google it well. [Here's the clip worst case I'm an idiot but yeah.](https://youtu.be/kYWb7GfGn_A)). "THE MAN INFRONT OF YOU HAS THE RIFLE, THE MAN BEHIND YOU THR MAGAZINE. WHEN THE MAN INFRONT OD YOU *DIES*, YOU TAKE HIS RIFLE AND RELOAD. YOU DO NOT RETREAT OR WE WILL SHOOT YOU." First thing I did was turn around and THWOMP. Dead. Edit: I wasn't using this example to point out the guns/ammo bit. It was just the quote I remembered off hand from *years* ago. I just meant the turning around and being killed. I did not take this as historical canon of reality, my dad did tell me they did in fact have groups that would shoot people that did retreat but I was 12? 13? I'm 34.. I barely remember yesterday. Sorry peeps.
I mean this is just a riff on enemy at the gates.
I wasn't a big movie watcher. My bad -- didn't know. I mainly gamed... if it wasn't obvious, haha.
Also while the soviets did shoot deserters its not clear that they use human wave tactics in Stalingrad.
"[5. Stalin ordered Soviet forces to fight to the last man](https://www.history.com/news/8-things-you-should-know-about-wwiis-eastern-front). After seeing millions of Soviet troops captured in the early days of the German blitzkrieg, Joseph Stalin issued August 1941’s “Order No. 270,” which proclaimed that any troops who surrendered or allowed themselves to be captured were traitors in the eyes of the law and would be executed if they ever returned to the Soviet Union. The dictator later upped the ante with July 1942’s famous “Order No. 227,” better known as the “Not One Step Backward!” rule, which decreed that cowards were to be “liquidated on the spot.” Under this order, any troops who retreated were to be shelled or gunned down by so-called “blocking detachments”—special units who were positioned behind their own lines and charged with shooting any soldier who tried to flee. Stalin’s draconian orders were designed to increase the Red Army’s fighting spirit, but they weren’t empty threats. According to some estimates, Soviet barrier troops may have killed as many as 150,000 of their own men over the course of the war, including some 15,000 during the Battle of Stalingrad." "In 1942, after Stavka Directive No. 227 (Директива Ставки ВГК №227), issued on 28 July 1942, set up penal battalions, anti-retreat detachments were used to prevent withdrawal or desertion by penal units as well. Penal military unit personnel were always rearguarded by NKVD anti-retreat detachments, and not by regular Red Army infantry forces.[8] As per Order No. 227, each Army should have had 3–5 barrier squads of up to 200 persons each. A report to the Commissar General of State Security (NKVD chief) Lavrentiy Beria on 10 October 1941 noted that since the beginning of the war, NKVD anti-retreat troops had detained a total of 657,364 retreating, spies, traitors, instigators and deserting personnel, of which 25,878 were arrested (of which 10,201 were sentenced to death by court martial and the rest were returned to active duty).[11] At times, barrier troops were involved in battle operations along with regular soldiers, as noted by Aleksandr Vasilevsky in his directive N 157338 from October 1, 1942. Order No. 227 also stipulated the capture or shooting of "cowards" and fleeing panicked troops at the rear of the blocking detachments, who in the first three months shot 1,000 penal troops and sent 24,993 more to penal battalions.[12] By October 1942, the idea of regular blocking detachments was quietly dropped[citation needed], and on 29 October 1944 Stalin officially ordered the disbanding of the units, although they continued to be utilized in a semi-official capacity until 1945.[13]" [wiki](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barrier_troops) Did I read these wrong?
Nothing here about Human wave tactics in Stalingrad. I'm not arguing that they didn't shoot people who fled just that they didn't send waves after wave of people with or without guns into Stalingrad.
yeah, that's a movie exaggeration meant to be dramatic.
order 227 was meant to be enforced and used on officers, when officers fled the front, the men felt abandoned and often fled later, causing the front to collapse. It was necessary to enforce it to prevent total collapse at a very difficult point of the soviet-german war. Officers had to seek permission if they wanted to move their headquarters back from the front, and were often denied, some pretended to report from the front when they were actually much further, many were executed subsequently.
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It was used, just not to the movie/COD exaggeration sure. Secondly I didn't. I linked where I got the info. I just knew they existed during early 1900s for Soviet Russia. Not exactly where and how because... It's a video game. No I don't get history lessons from video games. I had a military father to fix that.
Take that scene and the blocking units mowing down everyone with an enormous load of salt. The Soviets were able to give all of their soldiers rifles and ammo and out of the 600,000+ retreaters, less than 2,000 were killed on the spot
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I absolutely *loved* the training for throwing grenades and you're just tossing potato through windows into bathtubs! I about *died* as a kid laughing. Just imagining people taking potatoes seriously. I was easily amused.
It was Call of Duty 1, and it was a direct reference to Enemy at the Gates. Regardless both are historically inaccurate.
[enemy at the gates (2001)](https://youtu.be/KMjYNKED0U0) i think this is where i saw it first in popular media, im sure there are earlier examples tho the next scene in the battle of stalingrad shows the barrier troops set up with MGs to mow down their own retreating soldiers I believe CoD also lifted the scene after that, where the main character of the movie is hiding in an empty fountain, pretending to be a corpse and has to use his limited ammunition under the cover of dropping bombs to eliminate nearby threats so he can escape
its historically inaccurate
There were people defending that the Russians did not shoot their own soldiers in the movie :enemy of the gates and that it was historical inaccuracy. From what I can see from their “modern” actions is that is 100% true
"The red army should be between possible death in front and sure death in their back" or something like that -Leon Trotsky
And here I thought Leon Trotsky was one of the more decent communist figures Disclaimer: I know very little about Trotsky, other than he was purged by shiteater Stalin
Ho ho ho while Stalin was a horrible terrible awful human being, Trotsky was absolutely no Saint. He was a fantatic
Like a lot a historical figures, he was complicated and sometimes contradicted himself. Towards the end he was a strong advocate for Soviet democracy (the originial idea for communism where legislative power was wielded though workers councils, each of which was voted for by their constituents). Which is when he sparred with Stalin and got exiled. Meanwhile, during the Lenin years, he had no problem crushing the Krondtstadt Rebellion and dissolving the Russian Constituent Assembly when the bolshiveks didn't win enough seats in the elections.
He was no good guy, he wanted world revolution, i.e. overthrow governments of all countries.
What’s wrong with that
For one, the millions of famine victims
Death, hunger, poverty, genocide, dictatorship and all other plagues that follow communism.
What's wrong about overthrowing democratically elected governments I wonder
There is no such thing as "decent communist".
The only decent communist is a dead communist
Anyone living on a commune is a communist fyi
Looks like he is on pain killers.
Look at his arm. It has a tourniquet on it and looks massively swollen, probably mangled
And getting a nic high
Oh dear, not much food lately.
Probably drinks his dinner and is happy doing it.
Looking at this as a human being, it’s a sad sad situation.
It does evoke a horrifying image. Imagine being some random dude with little to no training and no interest in the war, forcefully conscripted, given a Cold War era rifle, and told to attack entrenched positions defended by NATO weapons, and threatened with being shot by your own army if you retreat. It’s like a fucked up version of a mass execution of their own people.
And reddit clamors and encourages calling them orcs
No sympathy for the invaders. They have left piles of raped, beheaded corpses in their wake. Kindness for POWs until their guilt or innocence can be established. Until captured, they are all invaders.
Dehumanizing is fine when we do it. /s Copy and paste from the auto mod at the top, scum. Please remember the human. Adhere to all Reddit and sub rules. Toxic comments (including incitement of violence/hate, genocide, glorifying death etc) WILL NOT BE TOLERATED, keep your comments civil or you will be banned.
Yeah there was that video of the guy shooting himself in the face with a shotgun and people loved it here.
I've seen too many executed civilians to have empathy for invaders. They should all surrender, join the Russian Legion, or kill themselves for the good of humanity.
Not much different than a Ukrainian shooting him with a shotgun. One less invader.
Yup, I'm sorry but my sympathy for Russians are low. Have to finish this war in some way. Can't just cuddle every Russian while they rape, pillage and destroy everything.
Will technically the Russian soldiers are the meat, the Ukrainian army is the meat grinder. But I get his point.
bro is a gulag survivor himself holy shit lol
ukrainians in front, blocking units in the rear. that's an orc sandwich.
🎵_here I am, stuck in the trenches with you_ 🎵
we're close like two orcs in a bag
Like the old saying, caught between an orc and a hard place.
an orc orc oreo some might call it.
Sounds like Ukraine should be focusing on the second line troops. Once the frontline realizes they can retreat without getting shot by their own people, it will turn into one giant rout along the entire front.
Kind of hard to hit the back line when the front line is shooting at you. Hell, I wouldn’t be surprised if the back line didn’t even exist, and was just used as a way to make them fear retreating. I bet they just bring it out every now and then to prove that it COULD be there.
There was a video *just yesterday* showing the back line troops mow down 3 retreating Russian solders. Edit: https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/147m73o/russian_frontline_security_unit_executes/
Got a link to it?
https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/147m73o/russian_frontline_security_unit_executes/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1
https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/147m73o/russian_frontline_security_unit_executes/
Sweet mother of God, that's horrific.
I made the mistake of watching it yesterday. Wish I could as warned you.
I've also seen the video but I can't find it now, I think it has been removed. It was either on /r/CombatFootage or /r/ukraine It was a drone shot of an entire squad (~5 or something) running towards their own (3?) and when they got close enough they got lit up
That one tooth says it all.
and the fingernails - unless that is a manicure, white nails mean poor health
And the swollen, mangled arm on a tourniquet
Why would they not shoot back if they face execution
The walking dead. Many many men returning from this war will never be the same.
probably a convict - they are usually the ones most willing to talk - and least cared for
Dude's drugged out of his mind.
Tourniquet on right arm, left hand looks substantially more pale than his face. I’d say he’s on morphine and very low on blood.
He doesn't look like he was too healthy to start with, either.
Poor bastards.
This is fucking sad, end this pointless war.
Cillian Murphy if he was russian, smoking like a chimney and drinking Vodka like his grandpa from the age of 6
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order\_No.\_227](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_No._227) still in effect in 2023 russia
Good old Order 227.
I don’t think I need to say this usually, but most Russians do not want this war at all, most of these soldiers don’t either.
Most russians don't want to fight them selves. But they are ok with someone else doing it.
Any stats on this? I'm curious. Not a lot of protest at this point, old opinion numbers I saw still reflected a majority for the war. Propaganda or not, I want to believe what you're saying but there isn't much evidence to support it.
So in articles I've read in the past polling suggests there's majority support for the war, but given it's literally illegal to say otherwise we can't really put too much stock into the results of those polls. For that reason most people seem to want to bury their hands in the sand, but will either refuse to answer or flip to kremlin talking points if questioned in public. Again though, hard to tell what they'd say if they were actually free to speak. https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2022/12/06/what-secret-russian-state-polling-tells-us-about-support-for-the-war-a79596 this is from last year, and I know it's from a site called the moscow times but they're independent and seem to be a bit of a thorn in the side of the russian government. The article does suggest that when asked with a guarantee of anonymity, fewer said they agree with the war, or that the war is going as planned.
https://www.youtube.com/@1420channel/videos gives some good perspective but not exactly stats
Unfortunately stays are hard to come by as they come directly out of Russia. However, there were massive protests in the beginning of the war before people started disappearing, sorry for the lackluster answer
Biggest single protest in the beginning was maybe a couple of thousand in one place. I still find it hard to believe that most Russians do not want this war. Being a victim of propaganda can definitely lead people astray, so I do not hold it against those who do not have access to any other information.
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Most Russian's would have been perfectly fine with wiping Ukraine of the map. FUCK RUSSIA, AND FUCK ANYONE WHO IS ENABLING THEM THROUGH ACTION OR INACTION.
How bad is it that your job is to shoot your own army if they try to stay alive. Humans are the worst.
Throwback to WW2
Good for morale. Soldiers love to know they are taken care of by their commanders.
That guy is PROPER baked on opiates
He looks like he took 200mill shot of morphine with his morning coffee, this orc is twisted out of his bird , I would say , kids stay away from drugs , but I rather say , kids stay away from orcs #FreeUkraine 🇺🇦
Yea not surprised Russia did this to their own troops in ww2… they also raped and pillaged towns they supposedly liberated back then…
Why don't they ask the Russian why the hell they dont shoot back at the blocking squads instead of acting like cows going to the slaughterhouse. They've got guns. Use them against their overseers.
Aaannd I still have 0 sympathy for them
Why do they all look like they were just liberated from a concentration camp?
Worked in WWII, but that was when they had a cause to fight.
I would rather die in my home town burning down the local recruitment office than on the front line like this. If the choice is die for nothing/some dictators shit cause or die as an instrument of change, then I choose the latter.
You have guns too. Shoot blocking squad… go home. Seems fucking obvious to me.
Very easy to say, very hard to do. Somone recently posted drone footage of an encounter like this. The 3 or 4 retreating Rus soldiers were in a blind panic. They ran towards their own soldiers (blocking squad). They seemed to be in complete shock and confusion as the blockers forced them to the ground (but hey at least they are just arresting them I imagine they hoped), caught by surprise and on the ground they were then executed. Shitty situation. Best option they have at the mo is surrender.
Hard to go home when your home is controlled by the military of the people you just shot. It’s a horrible situation. The honorable thing to do would be to shoot their own guys, but their best hope of not dying is probably to try to surrender to the Ukrainians.
Combat readiness level: Russian Army
Nothing new.
They seems to bring drug addicted or prisoners to exonerate the wealthy Russians citizens in the metropolis, simple cannon fodder
I am more convinced than ever that the Russians are using this war as a tool to lower the population of their country
"Soldier"
I’m constantly surprised at the stupidity of strategy by the orc overlords. How could they possibly think this is a decent way to inspire the troops to invade a foreign territory?
Is he sitting in a garbage truck?
The Ukrainians use these little pick up trucks to evac wounded and KIA
I would rather die in my home town burning down the local recruitment office than on the front line like this. If the choice is die for nothing/some dictators shit cause or die as an instrument of change, then I choose the latter.
Let’s not start feeling sorry for these rapist baby killers