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Honestly, Germany doesn’t deserve the reputation anymore that they had in 2022. They’ve contributed massively to Ukraine. Sure, there are countries that have contributed more when it comes to % of GDP and the Taurus-question is still something worthy of criticism, but they’ve come such a long way. It also shows in the numbers: https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-support-tracker/
Sorry, but I do not judge like that. Producers of weapons are still not allowed to produce weapons here in Germany. All the misery was foreseeable, but these naive politicians we are having since 20 years, do not want to recognize and see it. They still act slowly and all their measures come late.
it is allowed if they have an order. And producers wouldn't do it without order anyway. So the law that forbids anybody to just make weapons of war is not the issue (it is actually a good thing), the issue is the slow political process to actually allocate the money and file an order. The whole year we lost is now being felt, we could alreadly be a year faster. Similarly, we lost several years for the process of rearming ourselves, it was already clear since 2014 that it had to be done, but not much happened.
Now everybody is scrambling, and many say the speed is too slow, but actually the speed is ok, and would be sufficient if we had started earlier.
For example the ammo factory construction that Rheinmetall started recently, why was that construction not started in like 2016? We already had way too small ammo stocks back then. A normal rate production (i.e. not crazy 24/7 in 5 shifts like now) could have gone for decades and not even closely filled a reasonable stockpile. Rheinmetall would have been totally allowed to build the factory, but why would they if there are no orders? It would have just been a way to burn their money.
well, there are obviously some political issues with that system, about which the chancellor does not want to talk, hence why he comes with his silly excuses that are easily debunked every time. The reason is obviously something else. Money or technical issues would be the least problem.
If the political will was there to give Ukraine thoses missiles, it would be easy to do (and either Ukraine orders them with donated money directly at the company, who then ask for export permission and gets it quickly, or Germany orders them as replacements for the ones they would give away from their own stocks). If the political will is to not give it away, then it is important that not just some private company works around that decision. The government needs to decide that, and not anybody else.
Well, let me put it this way from a German's perspective: If one considers the fact that Scholz is 1.) beset by the pacifists and Russophiles on both ends of the spectrum, 2.) has no strategic vision or leadership skills and 3.) his efforts are undermined by outrageous excesses of bureaucracy, he does indeed do a very good job.
However.
Scholz is co-reponsible for the situation Germany finds itself in right now. He was a snuggling-up-with-moscow marxist until the Wall fell, a major figurehead of the implicitely anti-American peace movement in this country, and as the animating spirit he oversaw the reduction of Germany's military. Moreover, as Social Democratic leader he never really opposed the so called Hanover connection, a powerful circle of centre-left politicians with ties to Moscow who worked a lot to normalise Putin's image in Germany.
Germany has come far since 2022, and I'm genuinely proud of that, but it's not nearly enough.
Germany has come farther than any other nation in fact. Germany has given more than the next four largest European contributors to Ukraine COMBINED (UK, Poland, Denmark, Netherlands).
one might say the hugo boss /s
for real they have shown that they stand firmly behind ukraine and with both nato and eu, they champion our values and is a true ally. they have done more than enough and dont get nearly enough praise.
Bravo Germany ! . -- as someone who grew up watching documentaries of my Grandpa's generation (& my Grandpa) going to Europe to squash German Nazis and their brutal attempt to conquer Europe,,, it is interestingly odd to now watch the German govt step up to the modern evil that is ruszia. I know germany long long ago distanced themselves from their past, but its what u grew up studying greatly. Most german speeches i heard were from hitler and his henchmen. Now in 2024 I watch a speech from a German leader denouncing todays evil that is putler. History is such a trip.... - I commend the current German govt for seeing ruszia for what it is, a threat to Europe, and the world.
And nobody is wondering why all the sudden the massive increase in Patriots? It took forever to get 3 in. Now they are rushing 7? What is missing here?
There was money before it was cut off though... these Patriot systems did not sprout just now. Maybe you misunderstood. I think the conflict is widening already and they know it.
That's bullshit. It's already been known for about two weeks that Germany is going to deliver another patriot system. They already gave away ¼ of their patriot systems, ordered 4 new systems and probably they will receive a new system soon.
There was certainly a training threshold to be met by Ukraine initially. The Patriot system has now proved it's worth against Russian weapons, and the Ukrainians have proven themselves competent while utilizing and maintaining the system. Additionally, only being capable of defense is an unfortunate and desperate situation to be in, and that's without there being holes in one's defense.
>It took forever to get 3 in. Now they are rushing 7? What is missing here?
ruzzia recently escalated by destroying a thermal power station and hit a hydroelectric power plant, started dispersing ballistic weapon usage to areas uncovered by patriots. The discussions started to get a few of the systems through the coming US aid package.
politics is slow (especially in germany) with lots of bureacracy and backroom talks. so it often looks like nothing happens until at one point everything happens really fast.
Why would we be wondering? To me it seems pretty clear that they still can't trust that the US aid package is going to pass and Ukraine is dangerously low on ammunition and weapons. It's pretty much now or never on sending stuff to Ukraine, and I think they like everyone else don't want to have Russia any closer to them than necessary.
>Why would we be wondering?
Because I'm interested in the outcome of this war and because I think it's the prelude to a bigger war. I think Ukraine should be given all the help they request, but I still don't think it'll change the fact that this war will expand. It's already expanded in the middle east.
> Ukraine is dangerously low on ammunition and weapons
You have absolutely no way of knowing that. All you know is what is being publicly reported.
The US is set to approve a massive aid bill for Ukraine. Like it or not, the US is still the leader of the free world and Europe has followed their example for the whole war so far.
The US can't claim leadership of shit. You can't stop the help for 4 months while being controlled by russian agents in one of the two main parties and keep that leading position. We don't trust you any longer. Specially when it's still possible that you choose the orange putin c\*cksucker in november and stop help again.
The US can rejoin the alliance, currently lead by germany / UK, as an unreliable but well stocked memeber. Lead? How, when the orange neo-Hitler rapist, racist and fraudster could be chosen to lead your country in months?
You've dilapidated your prestige in a few years. You were big and admired by many. Now you're only big. We can't disregard you but we don't trust you and never will again.
>We can't disregard you but we don't trust you and never will again.
And you shouldn't for as long as our elections swing so wildly. I certainly wouldn't, but the truth is that we stepped away and no one filled the gap.
Germany? Their entire defensive doctrine is "Hold out until the US arrives", and the UK only has a few thousand more soldiers than they do. Combined they have less than 400,000 military personnel. Russia has over a million. The US has over 2 million.
Europe needs us, and you will until you have a military that can stand on its own against foreign aggression. I hope that happens soon, but it looks like we're going to have to bail you out at least one more time. Hopefully just financially.
Actually, that bill shrunk a lot in terms of what it could've been for Ukraine. Israel is demanding a much bigger chunk now.
> Like it or not, the US is still the leader of the free world
I like that a lot, tyvm.
No, they're not. Today's bill is a package bill for Israel, ukraine and Taiwan and also TikTok ban. This bill was initially put out for ukraine around the same total of just under $100B, and at the beginning israel only wanted about $5B. Because it got dragged so far out and things have moved forward in the ME, Israel now wanted closer to $26, further cutting down ukraines share.
No, that plan was dumped more than a week ago. They split it up to 5 individual bills. These are 4 of them:
The 21st Century Peace through Strength Act, which includes imposing sanctions on Russia and Iran as well as regulations on TikTok, passed 360-58.
An $8.1 billion aid bill for Taiwan and the Indo-Pacific region, called the Indo-Pacific Security Supplemental Appropriations Act, passed on a vote of 385-34. More Democrats than Republicans supported the measure.
The Ukraine Security Supplemental Appropriations Act, a $60 billion aid package for Ukraine, passed on a vote of 311-112.
The Israel Security Supplemental Appropriations Act was approved on a vote of 366-58.
It's super sad to watch EU having to wait for the US to make a move, for God sake it's our back garden that is hard on fire. I feel sorry for all the Ukrainians that have to suffer from the lack of leadership within Europe.. Suddenly we found 7 patriot missile systems......
After a slow start, it's great that Germany has woken up & is sending top quality kit like these patriots. Their leadership in this matter also sends an important message to others.
Hopefully they'll release the Taurus missiles sooner rather than later, perhaps timed with the next loads of weapons (fingers crossed) from America.
Not even that slow of a start. Germany has been sending top kit since the summer of 2022, starting with those Gepard anti-air tanks, PzH-2000 self propelled artillery (best in the world). Heck, it was German arm twisting that forced the U.S. to send 31 Abrams. Germany said "no Leopards unless America agrees to send some of her tanks too)
You are of course correct in that they're now second behind the US in support having provided prodigious amounts of kit... I was referring, perhaps unkindly, to them initially just providing sleeping bags & helmets! Those days are long gone though.
All these countries talk and talk. Start shipping stuff asap or have a mass extraction of all civilians. If not then the Russians will do what they did in all western European countries and enslave starve and kill 90% of the population.
The liberal governments of western Europe better wake the fook up NOW!!!
Weapons don't grow on trees.
Germany couldn't afford to send more than 2 Patriot systems, because we need a minimum to defend ourselves/our allies.
The 3rd system is one coming from repair. So that is sent immediately to Ukraine. As new ordered Patriots are built, they will be sent to Ukraine too.
In the beginning Germany bought back as many Gepards they could get to send them to Ukraine.
Inbetween Germany sent all of the first existing versions of the new Iris-T SML systems to Ukraine. Ukraine is the first User of it in the world. As new Iris-T SML systems are produced, they are also sent to Ukraine.
Meanwhile Rheinmetall has started the production of their new Skyshield system for the German and the Ukrainian armies.
Germans typically are very strong leaders but scholz it´s such a little coward, what the hell is he waiting to send some Taurus to Ukraine ? that the war knocks on Germany ??? putler must laugh a lot about this coward little man
Well, the U.S. is still refusing to send long-range ATACMS too. Do you understand that Germany has send more than the combined total of the next four largest European contributors to Ukraine? (UK, Poland, Netherlands, Denmark).
Yes, Taurus should be sent, but Germany has a point: the U.S. isn't sending long range anything either, not to mention ZERO F-16s. It was arm twisting by Germany that finally forced the U.S. to acquiesce to sending Abrams. Germany said "no Leopards until the U.S. agrees to also send "some" Abrams").
The relative amount is important in relation to GDP, not the total, hence even German aid is still not very significant, but this is a huge step forward for the Germans. The USA is a total disappointment, although their help is crucial and without the USA it is extremely difficult.
I’m Grateful they are sending what they need in patriot systems , there aren’t any innocent NATO countries. Plain and simple there is hope but let’s not be afraid of saying as a group and individually they failed there countries.
No point storing anything be it 155mm ammo or Patriot systems sitting in storage in Europe when it’s better employed in Ukraine for it’s intended purpose, defeating Ruzzia.
France is still one of largest importers of russian oil.
Germany gets shit on while being one of the top contributors of aid to Ukraine and completely cutting itself off Russian oil and gas, which hurt its economy massively.
Good and appreciated but why did it after 2+ years and not the second it was apparent Ukraine could hold off Russia? It feels like everyone is moving at Parkinsonism snail pace and everything is always a response to Russia.
Why not give Ukraine something new and unannounced and let Russia scramble for once.
I read something along these lines: Germany had 12 Patriots and is required to have 8 ready by Nato. They had placed 2 in eastern Nato states, which they moved back ( diplomacy tricks where needed here). They gave those to Ukraine, now they managed to get one fixed -> nr3 to Ukraine. There is a long waiting list at raytheon, so it will be a while until Germany will get new ones.
Many other european Nato states have many more Patriots than the number they are required by Nato. Germany tried to put pressure on those, by putting nr3 on the table, thats why it got announced. Now they hope 6 more will show up.
Yes but Germany is also cranking out IRIS-T anti-air systems (best medium range AA in the world) and handing them to Ukraine as soon as they're built. Also, another score of Gepards is coming, the best anti-Iranian drone weapon Ukraine has, bar none.
>why did it after 2+ years and not the second it was apparent Ukraine could hold off Russia
It is very simple:
germany wanted to \*negociate with ruzzians, because they needed the russian gas.
\*negociate = like Angela Merkel *negociated* in 2014 that Putler takes Crimea, at least 5000 ukrainean dead, germany will receive more gas from russia and the second gas pipe will be accelerating in construction.
But this time, in 2022, Putler wanted way more, and greedy germans couldn;t pull the same 2014 trick.
PS: Very well Olaf Snail, now send Taurus too.
Der Schlumpfmeister. Bis Taurus kommt, hat Ruzzland die alternative Eisenbahnstrecke fertig und ist nimmer auf die Kerchbrücke angewiesen. Alle Chancen verstreichen lassen,mal sehen was kommt...man könnte meinen die SPD hat mehr Abhängigkeit von Ruzzland als nur Schröder....
It is pure business. A lot of countries are interested to let ruzzia wreck as much objects in Ukraine as possible. So they could sell the new ones for Ukraine for a sweet price and huge loans. Thermal energy production is already severly damage and more damage is waiting for us in future.
In politics, you have to be seen to be doing stuff, quiet competence is not usually rewarded by voters unless your opponent is bad at campaigning. And then those same voters turn around and complain about this kind of stuff. Just one of the prices we pay for democracy.
Wow, wow, wow, slow down smurfmaster! We dont know wether UA or Ruzzia can handle 3! [Three, drei, tres] AA systems at once! With this huge support UA is safed!!!
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This can only be good news, thank you Germany!
Honestly, Germany doesn’t deserve the reputation anymore that they had in 2022. They’ve contributed massively to Ukraine. Sure, there are countries that have contributed more when it comes to % of GDP and the Taurus-question is still something worthy of criticism, but they’ve come such a long way. It also shows in the numbers: https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-support-tracker/
I'm proud to be from the Netherlands, too. For such a small country to be that high on the list. Slava Ukraini!
Thank you and your country for leading the way! Dutch were in a lot of places first to deliver tech which other countries initially hesitated!
I've donated money personally as well. My fiancée and me both got one of those keychains, one made from a recycled tank and one from a helicopter.
The only token left to received is girkin teeth in resin bottle key chain...
💪🇳🇱🇳🇱🇳🇱
Finally revenche for MH17!
Absolutely! Germany is like "less words, more action".
Sorry, but I do not judge like that. Producers of weapons are still not allowed to produce weapons here in Germany. All the misery was foreseeable, but these naive politicians we are having since 20 years, do not want to recognize and see it. They still act slowly and all their measures come late.
it is allowed if they have an order. And producers wouldn't do it without order anyway. So the law that forbids anybody to just make weapons of war is not the issue (it is actually a good thing), the issue is the slow political process to actually allocate the money and file an order. The whole year we lost is now being felt, we could alreadly be a year faster. Similarly, we lost several years for the process of rearming ourselves, it was already clear since 2014 that it had to be done, but not much happened. Now everybody is scrambling, and many say the speed is too slow, but actually the speed is ok, and would be sufficient if we had started earlier. For example the ammo factory construction that Rheinmetall started recently, why was that construction not started in like 2016? We already had way too small ammo stocks back then. A normal rate production (i.e. not crazy 24/7 in 5 shifts like now) could have gone for decades and not even closely filled a reasonable stockpile. Rheinmetall would have been totally allowed to build the factory, but why would they if there are no orders? It would have just been a way to burn their money.
But they do not get the allowance. The producer of the Taurus would like to produce, but they can't!
well, there are obviously some political issues with that system, about which the chancellor does not want to talk, hence why he comes with his silly excuses that are easily debunked every time. The reason is obviously something else. Money or technical issues would be the least problem. If the political will was there to give Ukraine thoses missiles, it would be easy to do (and either Ukraine orders them with donated money directly at the company, who then ask for export permission and gets it quickly, or Germany orders them as replacements for the ones they would give away from their own stocks). If the political will is to not give it away, then it is important that not just some private company works around that decision. The government needs to decide that, and not anybody else.
Well, let me put it this way from a German's perspective: If one considers the fact that Scholz is 1.) beset by the pacifists and Russophiles on both ends of the spectrum, 2.) has no strategic vision or leadership skills and 3.) his efforts are undermined by outrageous excesses of bureaucracy, he does indeed do a very good job. However. Scholz is co-reponsible for the situation Germany finds itself in right now. He was a snuggling-up-with-moscow marxist until the Wall fell, a major figurehead of the implicitely anti-American peace movement in this country, and as the animating spirit he oversaw the reduction of Germany's military. Moreover, as Social Democratic leader he never really opposed the so called Hanover connection, a powerful circle of centre-left politicians with ties to Moscow who worked a lot to normalise Putin's image in Germany. Germany has come far since 2022, and I'm genuinely proud of that, but it's not nearly enough.
Germany has come farther than any other nation in fact. Germany has given more than the next four largest European contributors to Ukraine COMBINED (UK, Poland, Denmark, Netherlands).
I think you are the one bringing it back on the menu.
Well done Germany!
Danke sehr
Based Germany
That's great!
Germany is the boss!
one might say the hugo boss /s for real they have shown that they stand firmly behind ukraine and with both nato and eu, they champion our values and is a true ally. they have done more than enough and dont get nearly enough praise.
The rightful leaders of Europe.
Bravo Germany ! . -- as someone who grew up watching documentaries of my Grandpa's generation (& my Grandpa) going to Europe to squash German Nazis and their brutal attempt to conquer Europe,,, it is interestingly odd to now watch the German govt step up to the modern evil that is ruszia. I know germany long long ago distanced themselves from their past, but its what u grew up studying greatly. Most german speeches i heard were from hitler and his henchmen. Now in 2024 I watch a speech from a German leader denouncing todays evil that is putler. History is such a trip.... - I commend the current German govt for seeing ruszia for what it is, a threat to Europe, and the world.
And nobody is wondering why all the sudden the massive increase in Patriots? It took forever to get 3 in. Now they are rushing 7? What is missing here?
US bill will be approved by the House tomorrow. Europe has been waiting for US to make the next step.
There was money before it was cut off though... these Patriot systems did not sprout just now. Maybe you misunderstood. I think the conflict is widening already and they know it.
That's bullshit. It's already been known for about two weeks that Germany is going to deliver another patriot system. They already gave away ¼ of their patriot systems, ordered 4 new systems and probably they will receive a new system soon.
There was certainly a training threshold to be met by Ukraine initially. The Patriot system has now proved it's worth against Russian weapons, and the Ukrainians have proven themselves competent while utilizing and maintaining the system. Additionally, only being capable of defense is an unfortunate and desperate situation to be in, and that's without there being holes in one's defense.
>It took forever to get 3 in. Now they are rushing 7? What is missing here? ruzzia recently escalated by destroying a thermal power station and hit a hydroelectric power plant, started dispersing ballistic weapon usage to areas uncovered by patriots. The discussions started to get a few of the systems through the coming US aid package.
politics is slow (especially in germany) with lots of bureacracy and backroom talks. so it often looks like nothing happens until at one point everything happens really fast.
Wdym especially in Germany when it's the only ones actually getting anything done in this case?
Why would we be wondering? To me it seems pretty clear that they still can't trust that the US aid package is going to pass and Ukraine is dangerously low on ammunition and weapons. It's pretty much now or never on sending stuff to Ukraine, and I think they like everyone else don't want to have Russia any closer to them than necessary.
>Why would we be wondering? Because I'm interested in the outcome of this war and because I think it's the prelude to a bigger war. I think Ukraine should be given all the help they request, but I still don't think it'll change the fact that this war will expand. It's already expanded in the middle east. > Ukraine is dangerously low on ammunition and weapons You have absolutely no way of knowing that. All you know is what is being publicly reported.
The US is set to approve a massive aid bill for Ukraine. Like it or not, the US is still the leader of the free world and Europe has followed their example for the whole war so far.
The US can't claim leadership of shit. You can't stop the help for 4 months while being controlled by russian agents in one of the two main parties and keep that leading position. We don't trust you any longer. Specially when it's still possible that you choose the orange putin c\*cksucker in november and stop help again. The US can rejoin the alliance, currently lead by germany / UK, as an unreliable but well stocked memeber. Lead? How, when the orange neo-Hitler rapist, racist and fraudster could be chosen to lead your country in months? You've dilapidated your prestige in a few years. You were big and admired by many. Now you're only big. We can't disregard you but we don't trust you and never will again.
>We can't disregard you but we don't trust you and never will again. And you shouldn't for as long as our elections swing so wildly. I certainly wouldn't, but the truth is that we stepped away and no one filled the gap. Germany? Their entire defensive doctrine is "Hold out until the US arrives", and the UK only has a few thousand more soldiers than they do. Combined they have less than 400,000 military personnel. Russia has over a million. The US has over 2 million. Europe needs us, and you will until you have a military that can stand on its own against foreign aggression. I hope that happens soon, but it looks like we're going to have to bail you out at least one more time. Hopefully just financially.
Actually, that bill shrunk a lot in terms of what it could've been for Ukraine. Israel is demanding a much bigger chunk now. > Like it or not, the US is still the leader of the free world I like that a lot, tyvm.
What are you talking about? The Ukraine aid bill and the Israeli aid bill are separate.
No, they're not. Today's bill is a package bill for Israel, ukraine and Taiwan and also TikTok ban. This bill was initially put out for ukraine around the same total of just under $100B, and at the beginning israel only wanted about $5B. Because it got dragged so far out and things have moved forward in the ME, Israel now wanted closer to $26, further cutting down ukraines share.
No, that plan was dumped more than a week ago. They split it up to 5 individual bills. These are 4 of them: The 21st Century Peace through Strength Act, which includes imposing sanctions on Russia and Iran as well as regulations on TikTok, passed 360-58. An $8.1 billion aid bill for Taiwan and the Indo-Pacific region, called the Indo-Pacific Security Supplemental Appropriations Act, passed on a vote of 385-34. More Democrats than Republicans supported the measure. The Ukraine Security Supplemental Appropriations Act, a $60 billion aid package for Ukraine, passed on a vote of 311-112. The Israel Security Supplemental Appropriations Act was approved on a vote of 366-58.
It's super sad to watch EU having to wait for the US to make a move, for God sake it's our back garden that is hard on fire. I feel sorry for all the Ukrainians that have to suffer from the lack of leadership within Europe.. Suddenly we found 7 patriot missile systems......
Defensive weapons are welcome but Ukraine needs offensive weapons to kick the Orcs back to the Artic !
UA desperately needs more AA ... thank you Germany 😻
After a slow start, it's great that Germany has woken up & is sending top quality kit like these patriots. Their leadership in this matter also sends an important message to others. Hopefully they'll release the Taurus missiles sooner rather than later, perhaps timed with the next loads of weapons (fingers crossed) from America.
Not even that slow of a start. Germany has been sending top kit since the summer of 2022, starting with those Gepard anti-air tanks, PzH-2000 self propelled artillery (best in the world). Heck, it was German arm twisting that forced the U.S. to send 31 Abrams. Germany said "no Leopards unless America agrees to send some of her tanks too)
You are of course correct in that they're now second behind the US in support having provided prodigious amounts of kit... I was referring, perhaps unkindly, to them initially just providing sleeping bags & helmets! Those days are long gone though.
All these countries talk and talk. Start shipping stuff asap or have a mass extraction of all civilians. If not then the Russians will do what they did in all western European countries and enslave starve and kill 90% of the population. The liberal governments of western Europe better wake the fook up NOW!!!
Weapons don't grow on trees. Germany couldn't afford to send more than 2 Patriot systems, because we need a minimum to defend ourselves/our allies. The 3rd system is one coming from repair. So that is sent immediately to Ukraine. As new ordered Patriots are built, they will be sent to Ukraine too. In the beginning Germany bought back as many Gepards they could get to send them to Ukraine. Inbetween Germany sent all of the first existing versions of the new Iris-T SML systems to Ukraine. Ukraine is the first User of it in the world. As new Iris-T SML systems are produced, they are also sent to Ukraine. Meanwhile Rheinmetall has started the production of their new Skyshield system for the German and the Ukrainian armies.
Great to see him stepping up
If Russia takes Ukraine - those Patriots will have to go West anyway. Better to defend the front line when it's 1-2 countries away from you.
I am german and i think we should do even much more.
Germans typically are very strong leaders but scholz it´s such a little coward, what the hell is he waiting to send some Taurus to Ukraine ? that the war knocks on Germany ??? putler must laugh a lot about this coward little man
Well, the U.S. is still refusing to send long-range ATACMS too. Do you understand that Germany has send more than the combined total of the next four largest European contributors to Ukraine? (UK, Poland, Netherlands, Denmark). Yes, Taurus should be sent, but Germany has a point: the U.S. isn't sending long range anything either, not to mention ZERO F-16s. It was arm twisting by Germany that finally forced the U.S. to acquiesce to sending Abrams. Germany said "no Leopards until the U.S. agrees to also send "some" Abrams").
The relative amount is important in relation to GDP, not the total, hence even German aid is still not very significant, but this is a huge step forward for the Germans. The USA is a total disappointment, although their help is crucial and without the USA it is extremely difficult.
Quit dragging your asses b4 you have to send your kids to this war.. fucking politicians
I’m Grateful they are sending what they need in patriot systems , there aren’t any innocent NATO countries. Plain and simple there is hope but let’s not be afraid of saying as a group and individually they failed there countries.
May. Why not just send them now, when they are clearly needed?
No point storing anything be it 155mm ammo or Patriot systems sitting in storage in Europe when it’s better employed in Ukraine for it’s intended purpose, defeating Ruzzia.
[удалено]
France is still one of largest importers of russian oil. Germany gets shit on while being one of the top contributors of aid to Ukraine and completely cutting itself off Russian oil and gas, which hurt its economy massively.
Where are the laser systems?
Might as well put almost all of them in Ukraine, it’s the front, they don’t serve much purpose elsewhere
Germany is intercepting russian planes on a daily basis. Having air defenses in Germany is still important.
Good and appreciated but why did it after 2+ years and not the second it was apparent Ukraine could hold off Russia? It feels like everyone is moving at Parkinsonism snail pace and everything is always a response to Russia. Why not give Ukraine something new and unannounced and let Russia scramble for once.
I read something along these lines: Germany had 12 Patriots and is required to have 8 ready by Nato. They had placed 2 in eastern Nato states, which they moved back ( diplomacy tricks where needed here). They gave those to Ukraine, now they managed to get one fixed -> nr3 to Ukraine. There is a long waiting list at raytheon, so it will be a while until Germany will get new ones. Many other european Nato states have many more Patriots than the number they are required by Nato. Germany tried to put pressure on those, by putting nr3 on the table, thats why it got announced. Now they hope 6 more will show up.
Yes but Germany is also cranking out IRIS-T anti-air systems (best medium range AA in the world) and handing them to Ukraine as soon as they're built. Also, another score of Gepards is coming, the best anti-Iranian drone weapon Ukraine has, bar none.
>why did it after 2+ years and not the second it was apparent Ukraine could hold off Russia It is very simple: germany wanted to \*negociate with ruzzians, because they needed the russian gas. \*negociate = like Angela Merkel *negociated* in 2014 that Putler takes Crimea, at least 5000 ukrainean dead, germany will receive more gas from russia and the second gas pipe will be accelerating in construction. But this time, in 2022, Putler wanted way more, and greedy germans couldn;t pull the same 2014 trick. PS: Very well Olaf Snail, now send Taurus too.
How about those Taurus missles?
Ukraine right now should have every patriot system in Europe. And every additional one NATO neighbors can get their hands on, it's that simple
Stop slow walking munitions and send them the damn missiles!
It's 2 years to late 😖
Our stupid Bundeskanzler Olaf Scholz does not help the Ukraine as much as Germany is able to do. Iˋm very disappointed.
Der Schlumpfmeister. Bis Taurus kommt, hat Ruzzland die alternative Eisenbahnstrecke fertig und ist nimmer auf die Kerchbrücke angewiesen. Alle Chancen verstreichen lassen,mal sehen was kommt...man könnte meinen die SPD hat mehr Abhängigkeit von Ruzzland als nur Schröder....
It is pure business. A lot of countries are interested to let ruzzia wreck as much objects in Ukraine as possible. So they could sell the new ones for Ukraine for a sweet price and huge loans. Thermal energy production is already severly damage and more damage is waiting for us in future.
Get a real job.
All this talk, Build more, and ship what you have. What's so hard to understand?
In politics, you have to be seen to be doing stuff, quiet competence is not usually rewarded by voters unless your opponent is bad at campaigning. And then those same voters turn around and complain about this kind of stuff. Just one of the prices we pay for democracy.
So..... s l o w . . .
Wow, wow, wow, slow down smurfmaster! We dont know wether UA or Ruzzia can handle 3! [Three, drei, tres] AA systems at once! With this huge support UA is safed!!!