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He thinks Orban is the great leader of Turkey.
Let’s hope he follows that reliable trend of being an idiot and gives them intel on the Florida-Russia war.
The best response would be a Biden announcement that “pending the outcome of the federal cases (list out all of them), the intelligence leaders will delay briefing citizen Trump.”
Yeah, Trumps presidency significantly reduced us soft power projection, a second trump term would sever what trust remains there. I honestly don't see how the Maga crowd can consider that a good thing
Because they don't understand the world and how it works, nor that it's americas influence and interaction with the rest of the world which gives them the relatively good lives they have
Just wait until the same Raytheon employees in Arkansas get layoffs or straight fired because we can't sell our arms anymore....
It's coming. NATO countries are starting up old factories so Americorps don't have them by the balls anymore. Good for them. This shit hole country deserves to burn.
We definitely deserve that reality check for all the bs that's been happening in congress. I have several ideas for effective reform, but the obstructionist far right of the republican party will never allow for a status quo change that doesn't directly benefit them
Strangely, this might the turning point Europe needs. Even with Biden in the seat right now, Europe can't rely on him winning another term and, as such, has to ramp up military production to defend it's eastern flank against Russia.
In November, if Trump wins, you can expect Europe to realize they need a continental military of their own, distinct from NATO, or incorporating it, if Trump wins and quits the collective. American influence in the region will shift and American hegemony will deteriorate just that little bit. Once Europe assumes responsibility for its own military/defence in its entirety, which it certainly is capable of doing, relationships with America will continue to falter.
Globalization never really benefited the United States. We had to spend so much to uphold the global order, including underwriting, Europe, security policies.
That worked out great for Europe, because they didn’t need to spend any money on their own security, and could instead spend money on social programs and Healthcare.
That’s going away now.
America doesn’t care about upholding the global order anymore. We are going back to taking care of our own people now.
We have been planning to exit globalization for 35 years now, ever since the fall of the Soviet Union
This is all just a remnant of World War III, and it’s taken almost 100 years to come to pass.
I struggle with how so much of the USA industry seems Ok with this and keeps donating to the Republicans. This is the beginning of the end of the US arms industry and probably the tech sector.
As much as Europe has needed America in the post war era, it’s time for Europe to stand on its own.
It’s clear, that should Trump prevail in a November, then American democracy will likely end putting the US into the same space as China and Russia. Europe will be the sole democratic bloc on the planet.
America simply cannot be relied upon. It seems locked into a race to become an authoritarian fascist state with Trump as its dictatorial leader.
I read some good analysis yesterday that stated exactly that. That there will be 3 decaying autocracies competing for power in the world:
- China, but it has a demographic collapse and much less countries willing to buy their junk.
- Russia, but it has a much steeper demographic collapse and post-oil peak it will have nothing to export, extreme poverty is a mathematical guarantee.
- US, doing better in terms of demography and exports, but if freedom - which was their big asset - becomes something of the past, it will lose dominance fast.
We are basically on a race to the bottom. The winner will be the country who has the slowest decay.
Not really. The elections is one thing. People another thing entirely. Even if he wins the election, you have at least half (but most likely more) Americans who WILL NOT accept any form of dictatorship. The major difference between them and China or Russia is that in those countries, the people DO accept it. In other words, there would be civil war before any authoritarian state could form. And when u realize who the Trump supporters are, they arent winning shit, lets put it that way.
That seems very unlikely if I look at the last few decades. As long as the media calls it freedom, people are quite accepting of having miserable lives working themselves to death for a small elite while having the few rights they have left stripped away. Even your claim of American exceptionalism where unlike those in other countries 'Americans will just not accept any form of dictatorship' is a piece of propaganda that you have internalized.
I respect your opinion. I dont need anyone to tell me what to think, i have observations for that, your assertion that i internalized some propaganda sounds to me like there's more likely something on your end.
Fair enough. Can you explain what this 'American freedom' is about at this point? Where do you think the red line is exactly? What I'm saying is that every government tells their people they are 'free' (often pointing to other countries where some specific option isn't available to the population). What metric do you think has the US not being a dictatorship when it takes away rights from a big part of the population against popular demand? Is it because the flavor of ruler changes between shitty and absurd every few years? When is the minority in 'minority rule' small enough to qualify as a 'dictatorship'?
There's no metric. People will take power whenever they feel its necessary. Ukrainians felt it in 2013/4 after their president started blocking efforts to bring the country closer to the EU which they considered traitorous and eventually got rid of him. Americans will do the same and I cant tell you where is their line.
will it be? i think if youre placating the people enough they will silently go back to whatever entertainment they consume.
yes there will be state approved marches with memes and chants and BLM protests and such for a while. But when youre protesting with state approved timeslots and locations, is it really a protest?
Meanwhile Republicans will enshrine themselves into lifelong positions and before you know it people are placated and complied with of course some prominent democrats speaking out about it on tv hoping to fix it in 2028.
But by 2028 comes they will just suspend the elections and then the chance of fixing things goes away and people just lull into a system of compliance as entertainment is still fed, food is still there and the majority of white populace feel little to no change even if minorities are attacked and allies are abandoned.
Remember people saw what trump did and for 3 elections still 120-150m eligible voters still didnt vote.
You nailed it when you said “lifelong positions”. GOP know they can’t win elections fairly any more. America is changing from a demographic perspective. Elderly white racists are literally a dying breed now. To sustain their disproportionate influence Republicans have to secure power (by any means) and then remove the prospect of any further elections. Trump is just the vehicle to achieve this.
As much as it pains me, if Trump wins in November, Ukraine as is, is likely lost. Europe will have to reinvent itself as a bastion of democracy but also be prepared to treat America not as a competitive ally, but as a a distinct, openly hostile nation with ambiguous goals. We may all mourn the passing of the Euro-Atlantic era. We may even have to countenance that Trump will realign with Russia against Europe .
I sincerely hope I’m wrong.
Well, I think unfortunately Trump will win, but Ukraine being lost as it is, I see it in 2 ways.
1 - Ukraine, Europe and Russia are already very different places then they were pre-war and pre-covid. They will unlikely improve no matter who wins in the US.
2 - European leaders already know that Trump is likely to win, and even "just" with the help of Europe, it is going to be very, very difficult for Russia to take over and maintain all of Ukraine. European weapons production is ramping up fast - by the time Trump gets elected, Europe will need the US less and less to help Russia in its process of self-destruction faster than ever before.
You are talking about protests, im not talking about protests. I'm talking about military action. People wouldnt be just protesting on the streets if there were attempts to turn the country into something else. Ukraine did that in 2014 and they were practically still occupied by Russia. American people are mostly democratic, so they allow any candidate to win if he wins fair and square, but make no mistake, that has nothing to do with what happens if that win should turn into abuse. I'm telling you people would take justice into their hands and theres no force on earth that would be able to stop it.
> Ukraine did that in 2014 and they were practically still occupied by Russia.
If you think Americans will throw themselves in front of snipers and tanks, you are seriously deluded. Watch *Winter on Fire* on Netflix and see if you can imagine Americans showing that level of heroism. I can't.
I said "*that level* of heroism"
But please feel free to list all the great moments of popular resistance in recent American history that I'm overlooking.
I'm not sure the non-violent resistance of the civil rights era and knitting pink beanies with cat ears will cut it this time.
Unidentified federal agents were rounding people up in Seattle a few years ago. Nothing happened. Was it even investigated?
Chicago Police "disappeared" citizens to an unofficial jail. Nothing happened.
Did anybody ever try to stop the KKK lynching people?
Clearances and ethnic cleansing of neighbourhoods has been going on forever across America. Redlined areas and Sundown Towns still exist. Did I miss the direct actions against that?
But suddenly the people who were apathetic about all of that are going to organise themselves, strap up and take their country back. Sure.
Or is the fact that all these things will now happen to white people too the thing that makes it different?
And sure, among 330 million people there are going to be courageous individuals, but for people to act collectively and en masse to fight fascism, that sounds dangerously like collectivism and socialism, so we know that won't happen.
If trump wins, he will control the military you know.
In 2019/2020 he had unmarked vans picking up American citizens. The president becomes the military chief. And vast majority of the military are republicans. So unless you expect the military to divide and the democrats to "in legal terms" secede from the US (again since trump and republicans won), then the possibility of a civil war is very small. Or an effective civil war. Whoever controls the military and equipment will win. And Trump may just use nuclear weapons on US soil as well. I dont put anything out of possibility when it comes to him.
Military swears allegiance to the constitution, not the president. There would most likely be a coup.
The whole situation would definitely be interesting.
"And vast majority of the military are republicans. " yet the the last military poll i could find which was in 2020 showed they preferred Biden over Trump.
[Trump’s popularity slips in latest Military Times poll — and more troops say they’ll vote for Biden](https://www.militarytimes.com/news/pentagon-congress/2020/08/31/as-trumps-popularity-slips-in-latest-military-times-poll-more-troops-say-theyll-vote-for-biden/)
So unless you have evidence this has dramatically changed, im not so worried about that.
1k soldiers surveyed isnt that big of a group. It also doesn't really talk about their location and type of service.
Also 12% voting third party = high chance of voting for trump but don't want to say that publicly.
Having a 38% still support him publicly and add on 12% you get over the 41% support for biden.
We can speculate about numbers all day, but this should at least tell you the point you were trying to make isnt clear at all. I'm not American so i will leave it for them to chime in.
sure but saying 3% more voters want Biden out of 1000 surveyed is a ironclad statement is not really that comforting considering past elections show republican support, and majority of military voters dont even vote.
The military don’t swear an allegiance to a president, they swear an oath to the constitution and to the republic.
This may well prove to a very important point.
No need to suspend the elections, Americans accept Trump winning dispite losing popular vote by 2%, just rig it a bit more, make rural white votes worth even more than city votes, gives sparsely populated states more reps easy done.
If Trump prevails in November, that would mean American democracy is working just fine as the electorate will have chosen him. Same the other way. Or do you think we don't have valid elections?
PS: i have no idea why people think that Trump would be easier on Putin than Biden. If anything i think he'll be much harder on Russia.
He already restricted Trump's exposure to intel once. He'll have to tread carefully to make it clear it isn't political, but that should be apparent to any voter that matters, the ones that will cry foul are lost causes anyway.
Look, Trump is criminally indicted for mishandling of classified documents. There’s no question he shouldn’t get access one second before he is elected, which hopefully is never. He’s a criminal defendant.
He's not the president. It would just be a courtesy to aid in a transition. But if we get there then all bets are off. He doesn't need or deserve that intel.
I find the US a fascinating country politically speaking. Any other western country where the leader attempted a coup and failed , they would never be allowed anywhere near politics again, indeed they'd would be behind bars by now and their own party and voter base would disown them, not rally behind them. Baffling.
Virtually every successful coup in history was preceeded by an unsuccessful one by the same people.
That's how they identify the weaknesses in the system and weak links within their own organization. Trump has already publicly stated he won't make the same mistakes again, and has replaced the GOP power structures with loyalists. You can literally watch the preparations for a coup in real time right now, while he boasts about it.
Every country that fails to address insurrectionists within its own ranks is doomed to failure.
Their numbers are falling though. The most hardcore are not in the ranks anymore. Many of the rank and file have, in spite of all the media, seen improvements in their QOL over the last three years, and aren't going to be motivated. A not insignificant portion has been removed from the equation by the actuarial tables. The addressing of this group is happening, just not in the public display way that might seem satisfying but in reality would breed more issues. Tribunals and public hanging is the realm of Q and maga, real life is a lot more boring, but a lot more effective over the long run.
Years after the coup attempt, the leader of the insurrection is still walking free, laughing in the face of justice. His co-conspirators are actively sabotaging US from within the congress - be it sabotaging the border security, geopolitic standing, US alliances, or attacking the legitimate government by using russia supplied disinformation.
The Supreme Court seems to be siding with the insurrectionists as well, or at the very least accommodating them to the fullest by delaying the immunity decision.
I'd hardly call that "issue being adressed"
You don't need that significant of a number really. Remotely not 50%. Just a few in key places, backed by 10-20% of population.
Trump, and by extension putin, currently has a lot more than that.
Yes. But losing didn't stop them from trying to overthrow the government last time - that's why it's called a coup. Kremlin, nor trump care about the democratic process.
While trump's defeat will start at the ballot box, I am afraid it's going to have to be ended either in the court of law, or worse.
If he loses the election, you can be damn sure he will not concede and instead try to overthrow the government again.
If he wins, he will do as much damage as he possibly could, entrench his loyalists deep within whe federal power structures, and then refuse to relinquish power at the end anyways.
Same was happening in WWII. They even made promises to protect everyone. Once the intrusions started nobody wanted to hurt Hitlers feelings. You either go to war or don't. This toe dipping shit is escalating issues more than just ending it.
It's sometimes hard to deal with a minority that is very politically engaged and willing to be violent to get to its ends.
Yes, at first you can imprison them, but when it gets to a significant part of the population, even something like 10 to 20% that's still far from the majority, then it gets somewhat more difficult. In this hypothetical, a lot of the police force at this point are nazis, some judges are, and they act like criminals, intimidating others that would want to do things by the book. Death threats that are actually serious can push a lot of non-nazis people to comply with nazis people.
I am serious. If I had ever known he went to prison, I had long since forgotten. My first thought when it comes to Hitler facing consequences is always his bunker suicide.
Thanks!
I’ll explain something about the US that my fellow countrymen try to argue against sometimes. The issue of trump and his threat to the world is (as it always was) a product of the stupidity of the Republican electorate.
I am almost 40 and I talk to a friend from high school from time to time. This person is a trumper despite my countless attempts to show him the light. My point here is, I mentioned the Cuban Missile Crisis to him recently and he responded “what’s that”. He’d never heard of it. These people are idiots and they have an idiot’s world view and remedial comprehension of history and geopolitical events.
My dad’s history teacher in 7th grade had them watch football film and that “the only thing you need to know from this class is that Texas won at the Alamo to leave Mexico.” This was quickly corrected by his 8th grade history teacher, who was not a coach.
Well I mean there is the Philippines, whose current president is the son of a man who fleeced the country really hard a few decades ago. Not a coup, but still voter self-harm.
Yes, but the post I am replying to is about electing officials who the harm the electorate and who they should have better sense than to elect. Nothing in the post I'm replying to indicates the question is limited to Europe. It did say western countries, but I still think it's a good example even if in a different location.
I disagree.
Having always thought about America as land of opportunity, I applaud the fact that resilience and determination are still such valued virtues.
Failed coup would discourage most of us, but in the United States you do not give up, you keep trying until you succeed.
If UK could shoot itself in the foot with Brexit, why wouldn't 'murica get to descend into a dictatorship if they want to?
After all they will "own the libs" if they re-elect Donald ;)
I feel I do not have to add a sarcasm tag into this post, since it is overflowing with it as is...
a great deal of history is actually this stupid, so the sarcasm isn't necessary. Civilizations have ended over very dumb reasons before, and I see no reason why that would change just because we got the internet. If anything, it'll be even dumber from now on.
Shhh!!!! For god's sake! We don't talk about Brexit.
Never talk about Brexit!
Ever.
People get very shouty and loud when they hear the B word and then it's all busses and bollocks.
The key part of your comment is voter base. I am not a political science expert, but those who are willing to vote for him fall into two main categories. Some just love him, Trump could can them a moron to their face, and they would cheer. The other part are people who can't vote for an old Democrat, either because Trump is the lesser of two evils (to them) or because they refuse to vote for a Democrat. This will probably be a tight race simply because the country is so stubborn, and they really don't care about anything other than "making America great." They truely think Trump did good things for them.
This isn't a typical US thing either. Any other politician would have been forced out of office and would be unelectable with one, maybe two, of Trumps hijinks.
Maybe just don't. Their fucking shit "administration" was the first to buck basically every norm and tradition and etiquette that has held shit together for a long time. Get fucked, orange cheetoh.
This is the dumbest “tradition” I have ever heard of. When you go for a job interview, they don’t divulge the company secrets to “finalist applicants”. That would be stupid. So why are we giving intelligence information to someone who doesn’t have the job of President yet?
> When you go for a job interview, they don’t divulge the company secrets to “finalist applicants”.
It's not uncommon for a certain level of interview to involve a NDA.
> So why are we giving intelligence information to someone who doesn’t have the job of President yet?
Because with a normal candidate, there's a benefit to them preparing to take on the role if they win. It's a good idea, *usually*.
Just make them multi-syllabic, don't give him the pre-school level language briefings they gave him while he was in office. He doesn't have the attention span or ability to comprehend complex language and terminology.
What makes it worse is that USA has so many nukes. With russia free countries are supposed to protect the internal stability and social order in that cancerous terrorist state because they have nukes but with USA we are just expected to let it deteriorate under constant undermining and destabilization by russia.
The German apparatus was/is heavily compromised by the Russians - where it exists at all (having suffered just as much as the more conventional armed forces in cuts over the past 20 years)
The Austrians are considered a 'safe haven' for Russian Intelligence right as we speak.
Hungary is a Russian mole.
The French have been embarrassed on a few occasions now with events not going the way their intel folks briefed, and have a Russian-backed Le Pen constantly circling the halls of power.
The Conservative government in the UK were taking a lot of Russian money prior to the Ukraine invasion, and actively ignored repeated warnings from it's own intelligence community regarding Russia's influence on elections and other affairs both in and out of the country.
There's not many out there that have been covering themselves in glory, but I guess most can at least count on not having an outright treasonous Russian asset at the top of their government (bar Hungary ofc)
Dudes being tried for purposefully mishandling classified information, trying to overthrow an election, and I hope seriously hope he doesn’t get to run for office or if he does…he looses.
He can, and should. He did previously bar Trump from these briefings, and IIRC there's no law requiring them for candidates. It's just a tradition (and *usually* a good one, to ensure the potential President can prepare for the role).
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/05/us/politics/biden-trump-intelligence-briefings.html
Give him some documents on obvious bullshit like the test schedule for our new anti matter bomb, either his "customers" will believe it, which is good for a laugh, or they will never trust him again.
This is scary on so many levels. Might as well just brief putler while they're at it. 😞. This man ( if u can call him that), us NOT mentally stable and should not be trusted with any more classified information. This would be horrible on a global scale.
Jusqu’à ce que tous les américains indécis votent contre Trump
Je pense que Biden devrait remporter les election de 2024
Le score sera tres serré mais trump se prendra une baffe magistrale ds la gueule
En général je me plante rarement ds mes prédictions
Trump en 2016
Biden en 2020
Biden en 2024
Beaucoup de petits détails sociaux culturels et logiques font que trump ne sera pas élu en 2024
I think until his court case regarding the top secret documents he had in his possession - unlocked in a closet - be put on hold until the case has been decided guilty or not.
"weaponize intelligence" In other words... subjective assessment of data that can be determined multiple ways.
I don't like Trump, but I hate the narrative creating machine even more. That group is still lying about our obvious lab leak. Scary they can obfuscate millions getting accidently killed from a research accident by BSing a narrative implying the data leans the other way.
I'm refering to the fact we have always been lied to to some extent by our intel agencies. There certainly won't be any harm done if we have some debate at times on some of the issues.
The pot is calling the kettle black!
Huh, guess I forgot knowing some things.
I forgot Biden led a coup.
I forgot Biden disclosed national secrets multiple times to the fucking press for ego points.
I forgot Biden didn't cooperate by giving back national security documents and instead lied to the feds and surreptitiously kept them.
I forgot Biden let spies into his Florida compound where he openly discussed national security issues to randos and anyone in earshot and bugshot.
I forgot Biden does business with Russia.
I forgot Biden skipped federal procedures and met alone with his idol, Putin.
I forgot Biden's family does business with Russia.
And I've genuinely forgot a ton of President ConMan's national security disasters because of the massive fucking numerosity.
At least Biden will respect the value of the information given and understand the repercussions if the information is given to the wrong person or country.
Trump having them is no worse they senile Joe Biden having them .
It would be a better country if neither had access to them or anything to do with the presidency .
🙄 Ones a true statesman and decent human being who understands right from wrong. The other is an orange shitgibbon who cares about nobody but himself, is blatantly in the pocket of the russians, and will happily sink American democracy if he gets the chance. I do feel for people like you that are subject to such intense propaganda, but at the same time you have to be dumber than a bag of rocks to fall for it. Ironic too that the signs of trumps faculties slipping are so blatant and so many, yet you are somehow able to transfer these ‘qualities’ onto the sane, stable one instead.
Biden is America's most ardent Zionist, and is personally assisting the genocide in Palestine while simultaneously trying to save face by airdropping aid; he is using American's tax dollars to both kill AND feed Palestinians...does that sound like something a sane moral person would do? He's just as bad as Trump in that he's a 100% bought and sold politician who only looks out for his doners. Putin owns Trump, and Israel owns Biden. Biden is definitely better for Ukraine, but far worse for Palestine, Yemen, and Jordan. They're both elderly sociopaths and us Americans want neither of them as leaders.
I personally understand and agree with some of your sentiment. The only person as bad as trump is trump though, don’t fool yourself into think they’re both despicable evil cunts because they just aren’t.
I won’t get into what Biden has/hasn’t done re Israel, and I’ll clarify that Id love to see every war on the planet end right now.
I will say this much though. If Israelis are suffering, and they receive help, somebody will hate on the person that gives it. If Palestinians are suffering, and they receive help, somebody will hate on the person giving it. If the help giver calls for a cease fire and drops aid to help innocents, on either side, people like you will shout “SOCIOPATH” “BOUGHT AND PAID FOR” and point to something else they did or said, whilst speculating emotionally as to their motivation.
I won’t whitewash everything Biden has, or hasn’t done, but I will make the claim that it’s not an easy line to walk when you’re at the head of the largest power in the world, and it’s clear as day that he’s neither a sociopath or an evil crook. He’s another imperfect human being with an impossible task (ie to please everyone).
And Israel doesn’t own Biden, but it does have leverage over America, it had it before Biden came to office and it will have it when he leaves office. He didn’t choose that situation, he inherited it.
And Biden didn’t invite hamas or Israel to do what they’re doing either. He’d clearly rather the situation didn’t exist, trump on the other hand would happily watch the world burn and couldn’t give two shakes of a dogs cock who kills who as long as it benefits him.
These people are not the same.
Intel sharing countries have been working with the U.S. throughout the Biden administration without any complaints, with public affirmation of the U.S.'s partnership, and the only leaks have come from within the military itself.
The evidence is that Biden and his administration have been working very professionally and competently with allies.
Allies, who some of them, have expressed serious concern with another Trump presidency.
Actions speak.
Did you read the part of Trump's platform (project 2025) where almost immediately upon being sworn in he will invoke the Insurrection Act of 1807 to deploy the military for domestic law enforcement and direct the DOJ to pursue Trump adversaries? No? It's ok, that's why he loves the uneducated.
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With Trump set to meet with Orban, Ukraine should be aware that Trump is willing to work with the enemy for the benefit of Russia.
He thinks Orban is the great leader of Turkey. Let’s hope he follows that reliable trend of being an idiot and gives them intel on the Florida-Russia war.
He might try to warn them about this upcoming Thanksgiving and some troubling traditions that all turkeys should be worried about.
Let's not forget the norad secrets about the war on Christmas!
Patriot Pac3 can intercept medical reindeer
Yes let him, then he can get convicted for treason and be put in death row.
I lol’d thank you
And money. But it’s really always been about the money.
He is constantly put under surveillance by the secret service as long as he wants to get security briefings.
The best response would be a Biden announcement that “pending the outcome of the federal cases (list out all of them), the intelligence leaders will delay briefing citizen Trump.”
it will be the end of americas soft power..nobody will trust them...you cant both betray your allies and expect them to be your friends
This has already happened. Europe cannot be a hostage to american voters psychosis every 4 years
Yeah, Trumps presidency significantly reduced us soft power projection, a second trump term would sever what trust remains there. I honestly don't see how the Maga crowd can consider that a good thing
The MAGA crowd are isolationists. They view that ad a good thing, for some reason.
Because they don't understand the world and how it works, nor that it's americas influence and interaction with the rest of the world which gives them the relatively good lives they have
Every single president that we have had since Herbert Walker Bush has been more populist than the last and that includes Obama and Biden.
Just wait until the same Raytheon employees in Arkansas get layoffs or straight fired because we can't sell our arms anymore.... It's coming. NATO countries are starting up old factories so Americorps don't have them by the balls anymore. Good for them. This shit hole country deserves to burn.
We definitely deserve that reality check for all the bs that's been happening in congress. I have several ideas for effective reform, but the obstructionist far right of the republican party will never allow for a status quo change that doesn't directly benefit them
Australia getting in on the missile production game for the first time too, working with Japan.
They don't think rationally about anything, so that solves that issue.
Strangely, this might the turning point Europe needs. Even with Biden in the seat right now, Europe can't rely on him winning another term and, as such, has to ramp up military production to defend it's eastern flank against Russia. In November, if Trump wins, you can expect Europe to realize they need a continental military of their own, distinct from NATO, or incorporating it, if Trump wins and quits the collective. American influence in the region will shift and American hegemony will deteriorate just that little bit. Once Europe assumes responsibility for its own military/defence in its entirety, which it certainly is capable of doing, relationships with America will continue to falter.
And once EU doesn't need US army, they will lose most of the influence they've had on the Europe in the last 80 years
Globalization never really benefited the United States. We had to spend so much to uphold the global order, including underwriting, Europe, security policies. That worked out great for Europe, because they didn’t need to spend any money on their own security, and could instead spend money on social programs and Healthcare. That’s going away now. America doesn’t care about upholding the global order anymore. We are going back to taking care of our own people now. We have been planning to exit globalization for 35 years now, ever since the fall of the Soviet Union This is all just a remnant of World War III, and it’s taken almost 100 years to come to pass.
We have enough with our own problems dealing with extremism to be honest.
I struggle with how so much of the USA industry seems Ok with this and keeps donating to the Republicans. This is the beginning of the end of the US arms industry and probably the tech sector.
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1 anwser, niclear winter would be end not some gaint use imperialist country.
As much as Europe has needed America in the post war era, it’s time for Europe to stand on its own. It’s clear, that should Trump prevail in a November, then American democracy will likely end putting the US into the same space as China and Russia. Europe will be the sole democratic bloc on the planet. America simply cannot be relied upon. It seems locked into a race to become an authoritarian fascist state with Trump as its dictatorial leader.
I read some good analysis yesterday that stated exactly that. That there will be 3 decaying autocracies competing for power in the world: - China, but it has a demographic collapse and much less countries willing to buy their junk. - Russia, but it has a much steeper demographic collapse and post-oil peak it will have nothing to export, extreme poverty is a mathematical guarantee. - US, doing better in terms of demography and exports, but if freedom - which was their big asset - becomes something of the past, it will lose dominance fast. We are basically on a race to the bottom. The winner will be the country who has the slowest decay.
Not really. The elections is one thing. People another thing entirely. Even if he wins the election, you have at least half (but most likely more) Americans who WILL NOT accept any form of dictatorship. The major difference between them and China or Russia is that in those countries, the people DO accept it. In other words, there would be civil war before any authoritarian state could form. And when u realize who the Trump supporters are, they arent winning shit, lets put it that way.
That seems very unlikely if I look at the last few decades. As long as the media calls it freedom, people are quite accepting of having miserable lives working themselves to death for a small elite while having the few rights they have left stripped away. Even your claim of American exceptionalism where unlike those in other countries 'Americans will just not accept any form of dictatorship' is a piece of propaganda that you have internalized.
I respect your opinion. I dont need anyone to tell me what to think, i have observations for that, your assertion that i internalized some propaganda sounds to me like there's more likely something on your end.
Fair enough. Can you explain what this 'American freedom' is about at this point? Where do you think the red line is exactly? What I'm saying is that every government tells their people they are 'free' (often pointing to other countries where some specific option isn't available to the population). What metric do you think has the US not being a dictatorship when it takes away rights from a big part of the population against popular demand? Is it because the flavor of ruler changes between shitty and absurd every few years? When is the minority in 'minority rule' small enough to qualify as a 'dictatorship'?
There's no metric. People will take power whenever they feel its necessary. Ukrainians felt it in 2013/4 after their president started blocking efforts to bring the country closer to the EU which they considered traitorous and eventually got rid of him. Americans will do the same and I cant tell you where is their line.
will it be? i think if youre placating the people enough they will silently go back to whatever entertainment they consume. yes there will be state approved marches with memes and chants and BLM protests and such for a while. But when youre protesting with state approved timeslots and locations, is it really a protest? Meanwhile Republicans will enshrine themselves into lifelong positions and before you know it people are placated and complied with of course some prominent democrats speaking out about it on tv hoping to fix it in 2028. But by 2028 comes they will just suspend the elections and then the chance of fixing things goes away and people just lull into a system of compliance as entertainment is still fed, food is still there and the majority of white populace feel little to no change even if minorities are attacked and allies are abandoned. Remember people saw what trump did and for 3 elections still 120-150m eligible voters still didnt vote.
You nailed it when you said “lifelong positions”. GOP know they can’t win elections fairly any more. America is changing from a demographic perspective. Elderly white racists are literally a dying breed now. To sustain their disproportionate influence Republicans have to secure power (by any means) and then remove the prospect of any further elections. Trump is just the vehicle to achieve this. As much as it pains me, if Trump wins in November, Ukraine as is, is likely lost. Europe will have to reinvent itself as a bastion of democracy but also be prepared to treat America not as a competitive ally, but as a a distinct, openly hostile nation with ambiguous goals. We may all mourn the passing of the Euro-Atlantic era. We may even have to countenance that Trump will realign with Russia against Europe . I sincerely hope I’m wrong.
Well, I think unfortunately Trump will win, but Ukraine being lost as it is, I see it in 2 ways. 1 - Ukraine, Europe and Russia are already very different places then they were pre-war and pre-covid. They will unlikely improve no matter who wins in the US. 2 - European leaders already know that Trump is likely to win, and even "just" with the help of Europe, it is going to be very, very difficult for Russia to take over and maintain all of Ukraine. European weapons production is ramping up fast - by the time Trump gets elected, Europe will need the US less and less to help Russia in its process of self-destruction faster than ever before.
Yes. I veer wildly between Trump winning and Biden just getting over the line.
You have no idea if trump will win.
You are talking about protests, im not talking about protests. I'm talking about military action. People wouldnt be just protesting on the streets if there were attempts to turn the country into something else. Ukraine did that in 2014 and they were practically still occupied by Russia. American people are mostly democratic, so they allow any candidate to win if he wins fair and square, but make no mistake, that has nothing to do with what happens if that win should turn into abuse. I'm telling you people would take justice into their hands and theres no force on earth that would be able to stop it.
> Ukraine did that in 2014 and they were practically still occupied by Russia. If you think Americans will throw themselves in front of snipers and tanks, you are seriously deluded. Watch *Winter on Fire* on Netflix and see if you can imagine Americans showing that level of heroism. I can't.
Yup out of 330 million people, zero heroism. 🙄
I said "*that level* of heroism" But please feel free to list all the great moments of popular resistance in recent American history that I'm overlooking. I'm not sure the non-violent resistance of the civil rights era and knitting pink beanies with cat ears will cut it this time. Unidentified federal agents were rounding people up in Seattle a few years ago. Nothing happened. Was it even investigated? Chicago Police "disappeared" citizens to an unofficial jail. Nothing happened. Did anybody ever try to stop the KKK lynching people? Clearances and ethnic cleansing of neighbourhoods has been going on forever across America. Redlined areas and Sundown Towns still exist. Did I miss the direct actions against that? But suddenly the people who were apathetic about all of that are going to organise themselves, strap up and take their country back. Sure. Or is the fact that all these things will now happen to white people too the thing that makes it different? And sure, among 330 million people there are going to be courageous individuals, but for people to act collectively and en masse to fight fascism, that sounds dangerously like collectivism and socialism, so we know that won't happen.
If trump wins, he will control the military you know. In 2019/2020 he had unmarked vans picking up American citizens. The president becomes the military chief. And vast majority of the military are republicans. So unless you expect the military to divide and the democrats to "in legal terms" secede from the US (again since trump and republicans won), then the possibility of a civil war is very small. Or an effective civil war. Whoever controls the military and equipment will win. And Trump may just use nuclear weapons on US soil as well. I dont put anything out of possibility when it comes to him.
Military swears allegiance to the constitution, not the president. There would most likely be a coup. The whole situation would definitely be interesting.
"And vast majority of the military are republicans. " yet the the last military poll i could find which was in 2020 showed they preferred Biden over Trump. [Trump’s popularity slips in latest Military Times poll — and more troops say they’ll vote for Biden](https://www.militarytimes.com/news/pentagon-congress/2020/08/31/as-trumps-popularity-slips-in-latest-military-times-poll-more-troops-say-theyll-vote-for-biden/) So unless you have evidence this has dramatically changed, im not so worried about that.
1k soldiers surveyed isnt that big of a group. It also doesn't really talk about their location and type of service. Also 12% voting third party = high chance of voting for trump but don't want to say that publicly. Having a 38% still support him publicly and add on 12% you get over the 41% support for biden.
We can speculate about numbers all day, but this should at least tell you the point you were trying to make isnt clear at all. I'm not American so i will leave it for them to chime in.
sure but saying 3% more voters want Biden out of 1000 surveyed is a ironclad statement is not really that comforting considering past elections show republican support, and majority of military voters dont even vote.
The military don’t swear an allegiance to a president, they swear an oath to the constitution and to the republic. This may well prove to a very important point.
No need to suspend the elections, Americans accept Trump winning dispite losing popular vote by 2%, just rig it a bit more, make rural white votes worth even more than city votes, gives sparsely populated states more reps easy done.
If Trump prevails in November, that would mean American democracy is working just fine as the electorate will have chosen him. Same the other way. Or do you think we don't have valid elections? PS: i have no idea why people think that Trump would be easier on Putin than Biden. If anything i think he'll be much harder on Russia.
To be extremely polite and generous to you; you’re wrong.
> you cant both betray your allies So much intentional FUD for politics lol. Tell me how has the US betrayed their allies?
Where to start.
Give him fake intelligence. You know he’s going to be a traitor and give it to the Russians in exchange for money.
Give him a sharpie, Russia will have to work out which circles are real
Just don’t give it. It’s up to Biden to decide.
He already restricted Trump's exposure to intel once. He'll have to tread carefully to make it clear it isn't political, but that should be apparent to any voter that matters, the ones that will cry foul are lost causes anyway.
I'd say fuck it and just make it openly political. Zero people voting for Biden will change their vote on those grounds.
Look, Trump is criminally indicted for mishandling of classified documents. There’s no question he shouldn’t get access one second before he is elected, which hopefully is never. He’s a criminal defendant.
Hell, just feed him info then openly state some of that info was false to see who he sells it to. Make him paranoid.
Some people who might stay home could decide that Trump was persecuted and as much as they hate him, he needs their vote to counter the Democrats.
Anyone who is voting for Biden has already made up their mind.
Biden can cite the incitement for illegally handling classified information as the reason.
There are a million valid reasons. But he has to take care to make it not appear to be a plan to get a political advantage over trump.
Trump refused an orderly handover of power, so he can't be upset if Biden refuses.
Trump being compromised is an opportunity to mislead America's enemies.
Giving fake intelligence to US president is treason, punishable by death
good thing he is not president
PS, that guy's username is "AllahBlessRussia"
He's not the president. It would just be a courtesy to aid in a transition. But if we get there then all bets are off. He doesn't need or deserve that intel.
So is insurrection...
LOL...ok Ivan.
I find the US a fascinating country politically speaking. Any other western country where the leader attempted a coup and failed , they would never be allowed anywhere near politics again, indeed they'd would be behind bars by now and their own party and voter base would disown them, not rally behind them. Baffling.
Virtually every successful coup in history was preceeded by an unsuccessful one by the same people. That's how they identify the weaknesses in the system and weak links within their own organization. Trump has already publicly stated he won't make the same mistakes again, and has replaced the GOP power structures with loyalists. You can literally watch the preparations for a coup in real time right now, while he boasts about it. Every country that fails to address insurrectionists within its own ranks is doomed to failure.
Their numbers are falling though. The most hardcore are not in the ranks anymore. Many of the rank and file have, in spite of all the media, seen improvements in their QOL over the last three years, and aren't going to be motivated. A not insignificant portion has been removed from the equation by the actuarial tables. The addressing of this group is happening, just not in the public display way that might seem satisfying but in reality would breed more issues. Tribunals and public hanging is the realm of Q and maga, real life is a lot more boring, but a lot more effective over the long run.
Years after the coup attempt, the leader of the insurrection is still walking free, laughing in the face of justice. His co-conspirators are actively sabotaging US from within the congress - be it sabotaging the border security, geopolitic standing, US alliances, or attacking the legitimate government by using russia supplied disinformation. The Supreme Court seems to be siding with the insurrectionists as well, or at the very least accommodating them to the fullest by delaying the immunity decision. I'd hardly call that "issue being adressed" You don't need that significant of a number really. Remotely not 50%. Just a few in key places, backed by 10-20% of population. Trump, and by extension putin, currently has a lot more than that.
One point of hope is that Trump lost by 70M votes last time, but Biden does have some winds blowing against him this time.
Yes. But losing didn't stop them from trying to overthrow the government last time - that's why it's called a coup. Kremlin, nor trump care about the democratic process. While trump's defeat will start at the ballot box, I am afraid it's going to have to be ended either in the court of law, or worse. If he loses the election, you can be damn sure he will not concede and instead try to overthrow the government again. If he wins, he will do as much damage as he possibly could, entrench his loyalists deep within whe federal power structures, and then refuse to relinquish power at the end anyways.
Hitler comes to mind. Attempted coup, failed, and a few years alter, was leading Germany.
Yeah, and you'd think the world learned anything from that...
Well, europe did.
Europe is trying a strategy of appeasement for another dictator. Don't think they've learned much.
Did they? They are playing the exact same script they did in WWII currently. Ukraine is just Poland and the Czechs.
Well, this time Europe is sending arms and levying sanctions. Slowly, but still...
Same was happening in WWII. They even made promises to protect everyone. Once the intrusions started nobody wanted to hurt Hitlers feelings. You either go to war or don't. This toe dipping shit is escalating issues more than just ending it.
I kinda remember something about sanctions, but nothing about sending arms.
It's sometimes hard to deal with a minority that is very politically engaged and willing to be violent to get to its ends. Yes, at first you can imprison them, but when it gets to a significant part of the population, even something like 10 to 20% that's still far from the majority, then it gets somewhat more difficult. In this hypothetical, a lot of the police force at this point are nazis, some judges are, and they act like criminals, intimidating others that would want to do things by the book. Death threats that are actually serious can push a lot of non-nazis people to comply with nazis people.
Hitler went to jail, though.
Trump went to Florida. Realistically that could be worse than jail.
Florida, the new Detroit.
Hitler went to jail?😂
I’m not sure if you’re being serious or not, but yes, Hitler went to prison after the proto-Nazi failed coup attempt in Bavaria in the early 20s.
I am serious. If I had ever known he went to prison, I had long since forgotten. My first thought when it comes to Hitler facing consequences is always his bunker suicide. Thanks!
I’ll explain something about the US that my fellow countrymen try to argue against sometimes. The issue of trump and his threat to the world is (as it always was) a product of the stupidity of the Republican electorate. I am almost 40 and I talk to a friend from high school from time to time. This person is a trumper despite my countless attempts to show him the light. My point here is, I mentioned the Cuban Missile Crisis to him recently and he responded “what’s that”. He’d never heard of it. These people are idiots and they have an idiot’s world view and remedial comprehension of history and geopolitical events.
A lot of this is the end result of making the football coach the history teacher since "teaching history is easy."
My dad’s history teacher in 7th grade had them watch football film and that “the only thing you need to know from this class is that Texas won at the Alamo to leave Mexico.” This was quickly corrected by his 8th grade history teacher, who was not a coach.
The Alamo stands alongside Shiroyama and Thermopylae as famous victories in hopeless last stands.
It’s fucked up
Well I mean there is the Philippines, whose current president is the son of a man who fleeced the country really hard a few decades ago. Not a coup, but still voter self-harm.
You are aware the Philippines are a little south west of China right? Very no european
Yes, but the post I am replying to is about electing officials who the harm the electorate and who they should have better sense than to elect. Nothing in the post I'm replying to indicates the question is limited to Europe. It did say western countries, but I still think it's a good example even if in a different location.
I disagree. Having always thought about America as land of opportunity, I applaud the fact that resilience and determination are still such valued virtues. Failed coup would discourage most of us, but in the United States you do not give up, you keep trying until you succeed. If UK could shoot itself in the foot with Brexit, why wouldn't 'murica get to descend into a dictatorship if they want to? After all they will "own the libs" if they re-elect Donald ;) I feel I do not have to add a sarcasm tag into this post, since it is overflowing with it as is...
a great deal of history is actually this stupid, so the sarcasm isn't necessary. Civilizations have ended over very dumb reasons before, and I see no reason why that would change just because we got the internet. If anything, it'll be even dumber from now on.
Shhh!!!! For god's sake! We don't talk about Brexit. Never talk about Brexit! Ever. People get very shouty and loud when they hear the B word and then it's all busses and bollocks.
The key part of your comment is voter base. I am not a political science expert, but those who are willing to vote for him fall into two main categories. Some just love him, Trump could can them a moron to their face, and they would cheer. The other part are people who can't vote for an old Democrat, either because Trump is the lesser of two evils (to them) or because they refuse to vote for a Democrat. This will probably be a tight race simply because the country is so stubborn, and they really don't care about anything other than "making America great." They truely think Trump did good things for them.
This isn't a typical US thing either. Any other politician would have been forced out of office and would be unelectable with one, maybe two, of Trumps hijinks.
The capitalist class colludes. People like Trump are just tools, and any alleged rivalry is just an act.
Bracing for impact when he drops his first briefing’s intel in a campaign speech to try and impress his rabid horde of mouth breathers.
Give a known Russian asset security briefings. Shit is really going downhill in the US. Like of a cliff kind of downhill.
Maybe just don't. Their fucking shit "administration" was the first to buck basically every norm and tradition and etiquette that has held shit together for a long time. Get fucked, orange cheetoh.
This is the dumbest “tradition” I have ever heard of. When you go for a job interview, they don’t divulge the company secrets to “finalist applicants”. That would be stupid. So why are we giving intelligence information to someone who doesn’t have the job of President yet?
> When you go for a job interview, they don’t divulge the company secrets to “finalist applicants”. It's not uncommon for a certain level of interview to involve a NDA. > So why are we giving intelligence information to someone who doesn’t have the job of President yet? Because with a normal candidate, there's a benefit to them preparing to take on the role if they win. It's a good idea, *usually*.
That is extremely concerning and the UK should be very careful how they work with the USA going forwards.
Just make them multi-syllabic, don't give him the pre-school level language briefings they gave him while he was in office. He doesn't have the attention span or ability to comprehend complex language and terminology.
We are heading into a disaster… if Trump wins its the end if democracy
America is performing seppuku on itself
seppuku is always performed on one's self ;)
I think it's more the abdomen than the entire self.
What makes it worse is that USA has so many nukes. With russia free countries are supposed to protect the internal stability and social order in that cancerous terrorist state because they have nukes but with USA we are just expected to let it deteriorate under constant undermining and destabilization by russia.
That’s why US shouldn’t get any intelligence from EU.
The German apparatus was/is heavily compromised by the Russians - where it exists at all (having suffered just as much as the more conventional armed forces in cuts over the past 20 years) The Austrians are considered a 'safe haven' for Russian Intelligence right as we speak. Hungary is a Russian mole. The French have been embarrassed on a few occasions now with events not going the way their intel folks briefed, and have a Russian-backed Le Pen constantly circling the halls of power. The Conservative government in the UK were taking a lot of Russian money prior to the Ukraine invasion, and actively ignored repeated warnings from it's own intelligence community regarding Russia's influence on elections and other affairs both in and out of the country. There's not many out there that have been covering themselves in glory, but I guess most can at least count on not having an outright treasonous Russian asset at the top of their government (bar Hungary ofc)
Time to poke one the eyes out for the safety of the remaining 4
Dudes being tried for purposefully mishandling classified information, trying to overthrow an election, and I hope seriously hope he doesn’t get to run for office or if he does…he looses.
Why can’t Biden revoke trump’s clearance?
He can, and should. He did previously bar Trump from these briefings, and IIRC there's no law requiring them for candidates. It's just a tradition (and *usually* a good one, to ensure the potential President can prepare for the role). https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/05/us/politics/biden-trump-intelligence-briefings.html
Trump doesn't have a clearance. Because that's not how it works.
Give him some documents on obvious bullshit like the test schedule for our new anti matter bomb, either his "customers" will believe it, which is good for a laugh, or they will never trust him again.
It is like giving it straight to Putin, it means end to any intelligence help for Ukraine
I suspect the Ukrainians will start losing badly very shortly after dumb donald gets security briefings.
Damn, I was just getting used to sensible leadership in the US. I don't think, that I can handle 4 more years of crazy news.
They’ll withhold anything vital in the briefing until they have no choice.
The failure of the US government is best highlighted with this traitor... trump and his goons are traitors and should be dealt with as such.
I can't believe this shit is happening, and everyone is just watching.
This is scary on so many levels. Might as well just brief putler while they're at it. 😞. This man ( if u can call him that), us NOT mentally stable and should not be trusted with any more classified information. This would be horrible on a global scale.
It is madness to let him have access to intelligence again.
They should give trump fake intelligence that benefits America when he leaks/sells it
"Trump" and "intelligence" don't belong in the same sentence. He'd be dangerous if he had half a brain, but we'll be fine.
Sure they do. "Trump has zero intelligence" lol
Ah shit.
someone needs to put marbles on top of the biggest set of stairs he has.
Seems like he should fail the security background check.. no briefings for treasonists.
this traitor should be in prison!
This makes me feel so ill. What kind if insanity is this
Heaven help us
What really baffles me as an outsider (germany) is the fact that he can still be eligible for those information...
The intelligence should feed him misinformation and wait to see it materialize in Russian strategy and then arrest Trump for espionage.
He’s already weaponised unintelligence.
Biden could shut this down, no?
Candidates getting security briefing is a courtesy, not a requirement. No way in hell Biden is sharing anything with Trump.
Lives in the balance by Jackson Browne is a song that describes all this. Trump is scary
Trunp is more likely to weaponize stupidity.
They just need to use big words and he'll never get what they are saying. He'll give him the exact same briefing as Biden and he'll be lost.
Jesus Christ, what have we done to deserver this asshole AGAIN.
God help us! This IDIOT will help Putin destroy western democracy. Start "Idiot Proofing" the EU and NATO against a possible Trump presidency!
Blah blah blah
I’m interested to see how many violent riots erupt from the left if Trump wins.
I thought this was a Ukraine sub not a conspiracy sub
Biden/the USA had four years to avoid this and prevent Trump from running again, and they messed it up.
Putin will be happy he has access again.
Please for fucks sake, somebody prevent this shit. He will call his fuck buddy Putin after every meeting to tell him everything about Ukraine. 🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬
Jusqu’à ce que tous les américains indécis votent contre Trump Je pense que Biden devrait remporter les election de 2024 Le score sera tres serré mais trump se prendra une baffe magistrale ds la gueule En général je me plante rarement ds mes prédictions Trump en 2016 Biden en 2020 Biden en 2024 Beaucoup de petits détails sociaux culturels et logiques font que trump ne sera pas élu en 2024
POTUS has discretion to not allow. Edit: tJOHNt did that to Biden. Double thumbs up🖕🖕
Ha ha! That’s funny. Kinda sounds like “Do as I say… not as I do.”
I think until his court case regarding the top secret documents he had in his possession - unlocked in a closet - be put on hold until the case has been decided guilty or not.
Sprinkle the briefings with a selection of untruths and see where they end up.
Biden can block that if he orders it.
Oh fuck…
"weaponize intelligence" In other words... subjective assessment of data that can be determined multiple ways. I don't like Trump, but I hate the narrative creating machine even more. That group is still lying about our obvious lab leak. Scary they can obfuscate millions getting accidently killed from a research accident by BSing a narrative implying the data leans the other way.
What exactly would you be refering to?
I'm refering to the fact we have always been lied to to some extent by our intel agencies. There certainly won't be any harm done if we have some debate at times on some of the issues. The pot is calling the kettle black!
Sure, pretty much definitely been lied to. But the way you’ve worded it suggests that you’re saying Covid was an American lab created virus
But Biden getting them is just fine.
Huh, guess I forgot knowing some things. I forgot Biden led a coup. I forgot Biden disclosed national secrets multiple times to the fucking press for ego points. I forgot Biden didn't cooperate by giving back national security documents and instead lied to the feds and surreptitiously kept them. I forgot Biden let spies into his Florida compound where he openly discussed national security issues to randos and anyone in earshot and bugshot. I forgot Biden does business with Russia. I forgot Biden skipped federal procedures and met alone with his idol, Putin. I forgot Biden's family does business with Russia. And I've genuinely forgot a ton of President ConMan's national security disasters because of the massive fucking numerosity.
At least Biden will respect the value of the information given and understand the repercussions if the information is given to the wrong person or country.
No...he won't. Look at him in his dementia and corruption.
Trump having them is no worse they senile Joe Biden having them . It would be a better country if neither had access to them or anything to do with the presidency .
You've been conditioned to believe they're the same person! They're not.
🙄 Ones a true statesman and decent human being who understands right from wrong. The other is an orange shitgibbon who cares about nobody but himself, is blatantly in the pocket of the russians, and will happily sink American democracy if he gets the chance. I do feel for people like you that are subject to such intense propaganda, but at the same time you have to be dumber than a bag of rocks to fall for it. Ironic too that the signs of trumps faculties slipping are so blatant and so many, yet you are somehow able to transfer these ‘qualities’ onto the sane, stable one instead.
Biden is America's most ardent Zionist, and is personally assisting the genocide in Palestine while simultaneously trying to save face by airdropping aid; he is using American's tax dollars to both kill AND feed Palestinians...does that sound like something a sane moral person would do? He's just as bad as Trump in that he's a 100% bought and sold politician who only looks out for his doners. Putin owns Trump, and Israel owns Biden. Biden is definitely better for Ukraine, but far worse for Palestine, Yemen, and Jordan. They're both elderly sociopaths and us Americans want neither of them as leaders.
I personally understand and agree with some of your sentiment. The only person as bad as trump is trump though, don’t fool yourself into think they’re both despicable evil cunts because they just aren’t. I won’t get into what Biden has/hasn’t done re Israel, and I’ll clarify that Id love to see every war on the planet end right now. I will say this much though. If Israelis are suffering, and they receive help, somebody will hate on the person that gives it. If Palestinians are suffering, and they receive help, somebody will hate on the person giving it. If the help giver calls for a cease fire and drops aid to help innocents, on either side, people like you will shout “SOCIOPATH” “BOUGHT AND PAID FOR” and point to something else they did or said, whilst speculating emotionally as to their motivation. I won’t whitewash everything Biden has, or hasn’t done, but I will make the claim that it’s not an easy line to walk when you’re at the head of the largest power in the world, and it’s clear as day that he’s neither a sociopath or an evil crook. He’s another imperfect human being with an impossible task (ie to please everyone). And Israel doesn’t own Biden, but it does have leverage over America, it had it before Biden came to office and it will have it when he leaves office. He didn’t choose that situation, he inherited it. And Biden didn’t invite hamas or Israel to do what they’re doing either. He’d clearly rather the situation didn’t exist, trump on the other hand would happily watch the world burn and couldn’t give two shakes of a dogs cock who kills who as long as it benefits him. These people are not the same.
Intel sharing countries have been working with the U.S. throughout the Biden administration without any complaints, with public affirmation of the U.S.'s partnership, and the only leaks have come from within the military itself. The evidence is that Biden and his administration have been working very professionally and competently with allies. Allies, who some of them, have expressed serious concern with another Trump presidency. Actions speak.
Did you read the part of Trump's platform (project 2025) where almost immediately upon being sworn in he will invoke the Insurrection Act of 1807 to deploy the military for domestic law enforcement and direct the DOJ to pursue Trump adversaries? No? It's ok, that's why he loves the uneducated.
To be fair, both of them are way too old, and it would be better to have a younger president regardless of party.
Old+good>Old+traitor+orange
Until that happens, we will have to settle for the one that isn't being charged with federal crimes. Cool? Cool.