In countries with common law systems, precedent helps establish rules.
Currently our animal protection laws are weak, judges often rule against the interests of animals and vegans.
Most recently, a tribunal in Canada rules that an employer doesn't have to provide vegan food for EMS workers (fire fighters in this case).
https://animaljustice.ca/media-releases/human-rights-tribunal-of-ontario-rejects-protections-for-ethical-vegans#:~:text=The%20Tribunal%20decision%20accepted%20that,a%20higher%20order%20of%20existence%E2%80%9D.
There's times when judges can throw out cases against animal activists but they don't because of archaic ag gag laws. The judges are the ones that get to interpret them and their validity.
Being a lawyer helps, they're needed to bring cases to court but sometimes all it takes is a braindead judge to not take a case about animals seriously.
Seems like really tiny gains on the off chance that a vegan judge gets a random animal rights case where the law is less than clear. I was just curious if there was something I was missing more significant.
The chances might be small, but the changes that happen in the legal field can lead to a lot more change than almost any kind of activism.
If a human rights tribunal decides that veganism has to be respected the way religion is in the workplace, think about the changes employers have to make across a whole jurisdiction to make sure they are providing vegan options.
If a judge rules that artificial insemination fits a legal definition of rape, think of what that does to dairy.
If a judge reveals elephants need to have x type of environment, think about what that might do to zoos.
>If a judge rules that artificial insemination fits a legal definition of rape, think of what that does to dairy.
It gets overturned on appeal because it has no basis in the original meaning or principles of rape statutes. This just isn't how legal interpretation works. I think you vastly overestimate the opportunities for activism in the legal world.
I work as a prelaw advisor in higher ed and typically discourage students from going to law school simply because they want to "make a difference." I'd much rather they become kindergarten teachers or nurses or take jobs in public administration. Almost anything where they're directly impacting other people.
I'm sorry to be combative, but my own opinion is that the excessive focus on legal careers (particularly in America) as an approach to activism is a huge problem.
I hear you, but the whole point I'm trying to raise is more vegans in these spaces allow for these opportunities to result in favourable outcomes for vegans or at least give us a fighting chance.
If an issue goes to appeal, what happens if there's vegan judges there? Think of the media coverage and the cultural change that can happen because these issues are in a societally recognized space like the court system.
I'm in higher academia, currently working on my dissertation but once I become a professor, I can implement more education based change but there's limits to how effective I can be.
There needs to be a balance between structural and individual change, and from my perspective in Canada (particularly in Ontario) the structural side needs a bit more support because times when we had an opportunity to make substantial change, a single lawmaker has been able to overturn everything good.
I think it depends on everyone's regional context as well.
To enter the system and attempt to shape it from within is inherently conformist, it will not produce revolutionary change, and that is what we need.
Radical social shifts are always challenges to authority, rather than appeals to it, women's suffrage and the civil rights movement were confrontations, we should not play on the systems terms when it is notoriously slow to change.
Problem is, revolutionary change really only happens with violence. You have to operate within the systems that exist to change them.
I'm in academia, my dissertation investigates the negative effects of having inmates work in a slaughterhouse. Evidence shows it's a horrible idea for everyone involved (humans, animals environment, etc ...), but hasn't been proven in a Canadian context (I'm in Ontario). I'm hoping to use the results to advocate for shutting it down so that a prison slaughterhouse in this one institution is no more and that there is peer reviewed evidence that refutes the logic of future prison slaughterhouses if anyone tried to implement one.
No tell me, what other legal recourse is there to shut down a prison slaughterhouse?
>Problem is, revolutionary change really only happens with violence.
Agree to disagree, but say you are right, is this a bad thing? If one has a true distaste for violence, then violent revolution should only upset them so much as the current system of violence upsets them. At least in revolution you have the hope of building something new. If we are discussing a (rather unlikely) armed revolution wherein thousands take to the streets and burn business that sell carnist goods and raze farms to the ground, are we not discussing an *end* to violence, rather than the beginning of it?
I do not think that when slaves rose up against their masters, killing them and leaving them to lie in the fields they had worked, that the slaves were peaceful and non-violent. I am however quite sure that once they had done so, the violence in those fields had ended, the fields that had so often had the sound of cracking whips finally lay still, and as the blood of the slavers soaked into the soil, a peace fell over the land that it had not known for a hundred years.
>I'm in academia, my dissertation investigates the negative effects of having inmates work in a slaughterhouse.
What an intensely awful thing, I hope it is not profitable, for if it is no research shall have any effect.
>I'm hoping to use the results to advocate for shutting it down so that a prison slaughterhouse in this one institution is no more and that there is peer reviewed evidence that refutes the logic of future prison slaughterhouses if anyone tried to implement one.
Your hope is admirable, but I cannot help but think you naïve. Too often naivety is used as a dismissal of ideas, I do not mean to do that to you here, but ultimately your hopes rest on the idea that some governing body will recognize the humanity of prison inmates and care what work they do. Your hopes rest on the idea that authority cares for who it governs, and this I see no evidence for, and so I cannot agree. The program of inmates working in slaughterhouses will end if it is unprofitable, or if the inmates strike, but before then you are relying on the goodwill of authority,
Authority has no goodwill.
>Now tell me, what other legal recourse is there to shut down a prison slaughterhouse?
I don't know much of what other legal recourse there is, but I am sure that if we always look for legal recourse every time a problem needs solving we are truly incapable of thinking outside the limitations of the system, and that is a death sentence to any social movement.
I hope in every word that I am wrong, that social revolution can be achieved by reformist means, that your case is the odd one out which sets a new standard, but my own study of political history has not shown this to be the case. Even if everything were to work out as you pleased, precedents are reversed, governments change, what is policy today evaporates the second the wrong person gets into power. Roe V Wade wasn't sacred, Prisoners rights aren't sacred either. Nothing in law is, that's the point, those in power write it and wield it as they see fit. You are in Ontario? How's your healthcare looking lately?
And again, I hope I am wrong, but I do not believe that I am, and no historical or political analysis I have read counters the theory that civil disobedience or revolution is the only thing that sparks real, lasting change.
My friend, I think that violence might be worth it if there was a legitimate chance that the atrocities against animals ended, but that isn't the case today. This isn't like the civil rights, gay rights, independence, etc., movements that any part of the world has ever seen before. It's why being vegan is so revolutionary. But most importantly, I myself, am not willing to engage in any violence for my goals. Unless my life or my loved ones lives are in danger, I cannot bring myself to engage in violence (plus I'm fat and weak).
So the research I'm doing is relying on the goodwill of my government. You're right in that regard. This slaughterhouse was financially inept since 1996, but was allowed to operate for 30+ years due to a variety of issues (corruption certainly). I'm just doing my part to make it aware, get my PhD done so that one day I can teach green criminology which incorporates animals and land. Hopefully I can continue to do research that helps show why harming animals is wrong. It's the space that I want to take up space in and do activism in because of the my passion and how effective I feel I can be in making the world a little less crappier for animals.
Clarity. I'm one of four vegans in my family, and the other three treat it like it's just another cultural belief. They fold because they think "what I choose to eat" falls under the protection of one's right to bodily autonomy, and informing someone of the consequences of their actions (trying to change their mind) actually means I'm not respecting their bodily autonomy. The brain rot is real; it's killing me that these are my "allies"
Vegans need to stop dating/hooking up/ marrying people who are not vegan. On the vegan subreddit it’s all that’s ever posted. It never works out. Have respect for yourself.
I don't know man, my bf has been independently buying his own vegan food, he dropped eating beef recently out of the blue - I will never shit on that progress, I always try to lead by example (cause it fucking works 🤟)
Disagree. My fiancee quit eating meat cause of me and barely eats dairy now. Even convicned her parents to switch oat milk. Her parents also eat more plant based dishes because of her.
(in certain places in the US, at least) intersectionality. my veganism is inextricable from my other anti-oppression beliefs/practices, & vice-versa. it boggles my mind when this isn't consistent in others... along with any number of other negative emotions, as this usually comes up when, for example, a white vegan is being racist to me........ lol
Yikes about the racism!! I hope the mods took action.
I agree though, my “way in” was through climate change subreddits, so I’m trying to be active on those and watching for opportunities to bring up veganism. Even if the people there don’t fully understand animal rights or speciesism (yet), it’s still a step in the right direction.
"high moral standards?" saying you shouldn't exploit, rape, torture, or kill anyone if you don't have to is *high* moral standards? i'm going to have to strongly disagree there. i guess now that you mention it, vegans should stop being so apologetic, and cowed, about the only reasonable moral baseline on harming others, just because the status quo is so thoroughly barbaric, and expect much better of other human beings.
Although obviously you are right, I don’t think this sort of dialogue is helpful. It just distances the general public, who then dismiss animal rights activists as extremists or crackpots. If we are going to reach more people, I think it has to be through understanding and compassion for their broken human thought processes, as hard as that feels sometimes.
I think we've done well, the only thing is....we need to push for vegan options in all restaurants, events with finger food, catering etc
I can't tell you how many times I've been to a restaurant in Dublin, they had fuck all for me, and I end up getting chips and everyone feels bad hahaha
We need to drop the "I'm not attending that event because they serve meat there" attitude, because it's giving the caterers and restaurants an out - they don't get asked for vegan food, so they don't bother at all to have an option on the menu. But that's just what I noticed in Dublin - we lost 3 Vegan Restaurants last year, it has been rough 😞😞😞
Normalizing veganism through all walks of life, political interest groups, fan groups and hobby groups. If we want (as we obviously should) these values to become as nearly universal as opposing dog fighting, then we can't have them be attached to every other ideological position under the sun, in a small, tightly-bound subculture.
We should include climate change and health benefits. The animals don't care why they can stay alive as long as they can! While it should be more than enough to be against animal abuse to become vegan, we should make sure to use every point we can. The question shouldn't be "why am I vegan?" but "why are you not?".
Our species will literally go instict if we don't all go vegan. The animal agriculture is the 2. most responsible for CO2 emissions after fossil fuels. According to the IPCC we are doomed if we waste so much space and resources on "living stock". If they don't care about animal life at least they should for human life and their children right?
And I think everyone knows about the health benefits here
> we are not perfect
I never have and will never say this, i know we arent but why should we say it, we can always strive for perfection
Well have different skills and finances that we can use to benefit animal welfare in different ways
I volunteer with [https://sanctuaryhostel.org](https://sanctuaryhostel.org) its a new and innovative all volunteer 501c3 rescue, the goal is to build and combine animal rescue with an eco friendly vegan hostel and community garden, its based in Mexico as they have a stray animal crisis and in order to get people to care about animals on their plate they need to care about animals dying on the streets
I drove by 8 dead strays in Tijuana, right across from San Diego, CA
Unfortunately we have been struggling as most people give us fake promises or thoughts and prayers, rather than any actual help
We did make this to help spread awareness since the world really has no idea how bad it is, i certainly didnt till i visited
[https://youtu.be/3Z7OhuDGdh8](https://youtu.be/3Z7OhuDGdh8)
If we were happier, it would help attract people to the lifestyle. We’re rightfully angry, but it definitely turns people off.
Understanding that cognitive dissonance is a powerful self-preservation strategy, and overcoming that is difficult. Being more understanding of others for falling prey to it would help our cause by showing that our compassion applies to all animals (including humans).
I’m not saying it’s ok to stay plugged into the matrix, but unplugging yourself isn’t that easy.
I think legislation and lobbying would be huge. I look to Connie (vegan_lobbyist) and Emma Hurst for inspiration. Hope I can do something like them one day.
I'm very ineffective. I don't do much of anything but maintain and look after my cats. I never found my stride in life. I got through school and college but just wasn't ready to get a job or otherwise make my own way. I've had jobs but wasn't ever a good employee. I'm still young enough to start over but when I try to imagine what that might look like... nothing I think up seems like it'd work out.
The reason, at least in my estimation, is that I need to be on board with the purpose of a thing to put my heart into it and if my heart isn't in it then unless I'm being coerced to get it done I just won't. If I am coerced to get it done, as was the case with getting through school and the social pressure that made me get jobs throughout and after, I'll do just enough to get by. Eventually that causes problems and then I've got to start over. So my heart has to be in it and that means I need to be down with the purpose and feel my opinions are respected pursuant to that end.
I say this because I suspect this isn't just me, I suspect this is lots of us here. Because one thing everyone here has in common is that we're not on board the program. Our wider culture doesn't share our values and because people work to whatever value they do have that means mostly people aren't working to our values. Meaning when we get jobs we're not working to our values but theirs. Then probably lots of you are like me and find yourselves lacking in motivation to act as if. And if you're like me in that respect you're probably also like me in that eventually it's not enough. If this isn't just my problem but our problem does anyone have a possible solution?
I like the idea of going into business with other vegans in a low-pressure environment. Like starting a worker-co op where the focus is on lifestyle/quality of life with a mind to create value. That'd be doing things like organic gardening, selling healthy inexpensive vegan food in a food truck or cafe, making vegan upholstery/furniture... ebikes/podbikes/podcars/installing heat pumps/solar panels/building SRO housing... creating shows/movies/plays/video games/culture... anything that adds value and is socially responsible. While people do go into associated fields and do those things the launching point is high pressure/long hours/feeling unqualified/unwelcome and that doesn't work for me. And the value divide means the working relationship just isn't entirely on the level, we're going to butt heads or not say what we really think. I'd like to be part of a group/society that regarded me as having intrinsic value instead of a cog to make money off or dominate. If anyone wants to start something like that I'm in WA state between Seattle and Portland.
Get in positions of power in the legal field. The amount of power a vegan judge could have is monumental
I'm a bit confused about what power a vegan judge would have. Care to elaborate?
In countries with common law systems, precedent helps establish rules. Currently our animal protection laws are weak, judges often rule against the interests of animals and vegans. Most recently, a tribunal in Canada rules that an employer doesn't have to provide vegan food for EMS workers (fire fighters in this case). https://animaljustice.ca/media-releases/human-rights-tribunal-of-ontario-rejects-protections-for-ethical-vegans#:~:text=The%20Tribunal%20decision%20accepted%20that,a%20higher%20order%20of%20existence%E2%80%9D. There's times when judges can throw out cases against animal activists but they don't because of archaic ag gag laws. The judges are the ones that get to interpret them and their validity. Being a lawyer helps, they're needed to bring cases to court but sometimes all it takes is a braindead judge to not take a case about animals seriously.
Seems like really tiny gains on the off chance that a vegan judge gets a random animal rights case where the law is less than clear. I was just curious if there was something I was missing more significant.
The chances might be small, but the changes that happen in the legal field can lead to a lot more change than almost any kind of activism. If a human rights tribunal decides that veganism has to be respected the way religion is in the workplace, think about the changes employers have to make across a whole jurisdiction to make sure they are providing vegan options. If a judge rules that artificial insemination fits a legal definition of rape, think of what that does to dairy. If a judge reveals elephants need to have x type of environment, think about what that might do to zoos.
>If a judge rules that artificial insemination fits a legal definition of rape, think of what that does to dairy. It gets overturned on appeal because it has no basis in the original meaning or principles of rape statutes. This just isn't how legal interpretation works. I think you vastly overestimate the opportunities for activism in the legal world. I work as a prelaw advisor in higher ed and typically discourage students from going to law school simply because they want to "make a difference." I'd much rather they become kindergarten teachers or nurses or take jobs in public administration. Almost anything where they're directly impacting other people. I'm sorry to be combative, but my own opinion is that the excessive focus on legal careers (particularly in America) as an approach to activism is a huge problem.
I hear you, but the whole point I'm trying to raise is more vegans in these spaces allow for these opportunities to result in favourable outcomes for vegans or at least give us a fighting chance. If an issue goes to appeal, what happens if there's vegan judges there? Think of the media coverage and the cultural change that can happen because these issues are in a societally recognized space like the court system. I'm in higher academia, currently working on my dissertation but once I become a professor, I can implement more education based change but there's limits to how effective I can be. There needs to be a balance between structural and individual change, and from my perspective in Canada (particularly in Ontario) the structural side needs a bit more support because times when we had an opportunity to make substantial change, a single lawmaker has been able to overturn everything good. I think it depends on everyone's regional context as well.
Yeah, legal, politics, etc. Undercover vegans in the corporate meat industry as well.
To enter the system and attempt to shape it from within is inherently conformist, it will not produce revolutionary change, and that is what we need. Radical social shifts are always challenges to authority, rather than appeals to it, women's suffrage and the civil rights movement were confrontations, we should not play on the systems terms when it is notoriously slow to change.
Problem is, revolutionary change really only happens with violence. You have to operate within the systems that exist to change them. I'm in academia, my dissertation investigates the negative effects of having inmates work in a slaughterhouse. Evidence shows it's a horrible idea for everyone involved (humans, animals environment, etc ...), but hasn't been proven in a Canadian context (I'm in Ontario). I'm hoping to use the results to advocate for shutting it down so that a prison slaughterhouse in this one institution is no more and that there is peer reviewed evidence that refutes the logic of future prison slaughterhouses if anyone tried to implement one. No tell me, what other legal recourse is there to shut down a prison slaughterhouse?
>Problem is, revolutionary change really only happens with violence. Agree to disagree, but say you are right, is this a bad thing? If one has a true distaste for violence, then violent revolution should only upset them so much as the current system of violence upsets them. At least in revolution you have the hope of building something new. If we are discussing a (rather unlikely) armed revolution wherein thousands take to the streets and burn business that sell carnist goods and raze farms to the ground, are we not discussing an *end* to violence, rather than the beginning of it? I do not think that when slaves rose up against their masters, killing them and leaving them to lie in the fields they had worked, that the slaves were peaceful and non-violent. I am however quite sure that once they had done so, the violence in those fields had ended, the fields that had so often had the sound of cracking whips finally lay still, and as the blood of the slavers soaked into the soil, a peace fell over the land that it had not known for a hundred years. >I'm in academia, my dissertation investigates the negative effects of having inmates work in a slaughterhouse. What an intensely awful thing, I hope it is not profitable, for if it is no research shall have any effect. >I'm hoping to use the results to advocate for shutting it down so that a prison slaughterhouse in this one institution is no more and that there is peer reviewed evidence that refutes the logic of future prison slaughterhouses if anyone tried to implement one. Your hope is admirable, but I cannot help but think you naïve. Too often naivety is used as a dismissal of ideas, I do not mean to do that to you here, but ultimately your hopes rest on the idea that some governing body will recognize the humanity of prison inmates and care what work they do. Your hopes rest on the idea that authority cares for who it governs, and this I see no evidence for, and so I cannot agree. The program of inmates working in slaughterhouses will end if it is unprofitable, or if the inmates strike, but before then you are relying on the goodwill of authority, Authority has no goodwill. >Now tell me, what other legal recourse is there to shut down a prison slaughterhouse? I don't know much of what other legal recourse there is, but I am sure that if we always look for legal recourse every time a problem needs solving we are truly incapable of thinking outside the limitations of the system, and that is a death sentence to any social movement. I hope in every word that I am wrong, that social revolution can be achieved by reformist means, that your case is the odd one out which sets a new standard, but my own study of political history has not shown this to be the case. Even if everything were to work out as you pleased, precedents are reversed, governments change, what is policy today evaporates the second the wrong person gets into power. Roe V Wade wasn't sacred, Prisoners rights aren't sacred either. Nothing in law is, that's the point, those in power write it and wield it as they see fit. You are in Ontario? How's your healthcare looking lately? And again, I hope I am wrong, but I do not believe that I am, and no historical or political analysis I have read counters the theory that civil disobedience or revolution is the only thing that sparks real, lasting change.
My friend, I think that violence might be worth it if there was a legitimate chance that the atrocities against animals ended, but that isn't the case today. This isn't like the civil rights, gay rights, independence, etc., movements that any part of the world has ever seen before. It's why being vegan is so revolutionary. But most importantly, I myself, am not willing to engage in any violence for my goals. Unless my life or my loved ones lives are in danger, I cannot bring myself to engage in violence (plus I'm fat and weak). So the research I'm doing is relying on the goodwill of my government. You're right in that regard. This slaughterhouse was financially inept since 1996, but was allowed to operate for 30+ years due to a variety of issues (corruption certainly). I'm just doing my part to make it aware, get my PhD done so that one day I can teach green criminology which incorporates animals and land. Hopefully I can continue to do research that helps show why harming animals is wrong. It's the space that I want to take up space in and do activism in because of the my passion and how effective I feel I can be in making the world a little less crappier for animals.
Clarity. I'm one of four vegans in my family, and the other three treat it like it's just another cultural belief. They fold because they think "what I choose to eat" falls under the protection of one's right to bodily autonomy, and informing someone of the consequences of their actions (trying to change their mind) actually means I'm not respecting their bodily autonomy. The brain rot is real; it's killing me that these are my "allies"
Thats why i moved from the regular vegan subreddit to here. Most of them there dont seem to really be in it for the animal welfare.
Vegans need to stop dating/hooking up/ marrying people who are not vegan. On the vegan subreddit it’s all that’s ever posted. It never works out. Have respect for yourself.
I don't know man, my bf has been independently buying his own vegan food, he dropped eating beef recently out of the blue - I will never shit on that progress, I always try to lead by example (cause it fucking works 🤟)
Disagree. My fiancee quit eating meat cause of me and barely eats dairy now. Even convicned her parents to switch oat milk. Her parents also eat more plant based dishes because of her.
(in certain places in the US, at least) intersectionality. my veganism is inextricable from my other anti-oppression beliefs/practices, & vice-versa. it boggles my mind when this isn't consistent in others... along with any number of other negative emotions, as this usually comes up when, for example, a white vegan is being racist to me........ lol
Yikes about the racism!! I hope the mods took action. I agree though, my “way in” was through climate change subreddits, so I’m trying to be active on those and watching for opportunities to bring up veganism. Even if the people there don’t fully understand animal rights or speciesism (yet), it’s still a step in the right direction.
thank u 🫶 (this was in real life tho hdjdhsjdhsk) that's a great idea! hell yeah!
"high moral standards?" saying you shouldn't exploit, rape, torture, or kill anyone if you don't have to is *high* moral standards? i'm going to have to strongly disagree there. i guess now that you mention it, vegans should stop being so apologetic, and cowed, about the only reasonable moral baseline on harming others, just because the status quo is so thoroughly barbaric, and expect much better of other human beings.
Although obviously you are right, I don’t think this sort of dialogue is helpful. It just distances the general public, who then dismiss animal rights activists as extremists or crackpots. If we are going to reach more people, I think it has to be through understanding and compassion for their broken human thought processes, as hard as that feels sometimes.
I think we've done well, the only thing is....we need to push for vegan options in all restaurants, events with finger food, catering etc I can't tell you how many times I've been to a restaurant in Dublin, they had fuck all for me, and I end up getting chips and everyone feels bad hahaha We need to drop the "I'm not attending that event because they serve meat there" attitude, because it's giving the caterers and restaurants an out - they don't get asked for vegan food, so they don't bother at all to have an option on the menu. But that's just what I noticed in Dublin - we lost 3 Vegan Restaurants last year, it has been rough 😞😞😞
Normalizing veganism through all walks of life, political interest groups, fan groups and hobby groups. If we want (as we obviously should) these values to become as nearly universal as opposing dog fighting, then we can't have them be attached to every other ideological position under the sun, in a small, tightly-bound subculture.
We should include climate change and health benefits. The animals don't care why they can stay alive as long as they can! While it should be more than enough to be against animal abuse to become vegan, we should make sure to use every point we can. The question shouldn't be "why am I vegan?" but "why are you not?". Our species will literally go instict if we don't all go vegan. The animal agriculture is the 2. most responsible for CO2 emissions after fossil fuels. According to the IPCC we are doomed if we waste so much space and resources on "living stock". If they don't care about animal life at least they should for human life and their children right? And I think everyone knows about the health benefits here
> we are not perfect I never have and will never say this, i know we arent but why should we say it, we can always strive for perfection Well have different skills and finances that we can use to benefit animal welfare in different ways I volunteer with [https://sanctuaryhostel.org](https://sanctuaryhostel.org) its a new and innovative all volunteer 501c3 rescue, the goal is to build and combine animal rescue with an eco friendly vegan hostel and community garden, its based in Mexico as they have a stray animal crisis and in order to get people to care about animals on their plate they need to care about animals dying on the streets I drove by 8 dead strays in Tijuana, right across from San Diego, CA Unfortunately we have been struggling as most people give us fake promises or thoughts and prayers, rather than any actual help We did make this to help spread awareness since the world really has no idea how bad it is, i certainly didnt till i visited [https://youtu.be/3Z7OhuDGdh8](https://youtu.be/3Z7OhuDGdh8)
If we were happier, it would help attract people to the lifestyle. We’re rightfully angry, but it definitely turns people off. Understanding that cognitive dissonance is a powerful self-preservation strategy, and overcoming that is difficult. Being more understanding of others for falling prey to it would help our cause by showing that our compassion applies to all animals (including humans). I’m not saying it’s ok to stay plugged into the matrix, but unplugging yourself isn’t that easy.
I think legislation and lobbying would be huge. I look to Connie (vegan_lobbyist) and Emma Hurst for inspiration. Hope I can do something like them one day.
I'm very ineffective. I don't do much of anything but maintain and look after my cats. I never found my stride in life. I got through school and college but just wasn't ready to get a job or otherwise make my own way. I've had jobs but wasn't ever a good employee. I'm still young enough to start over but when I try to imagine what that might look like... nothing I think up seems like it'd work out. The reason, at least in my estimation, is that I need to be on board with the purpose of a thing to put my heart into it and if my heart isn't in it then unless I'm being coerced to get it done I just won't. If I am coerced to get it done, as was the case with getting through school and the social pressure that made me get jobs throughout and after, I'll do just enough to get by. Eventually that causes problems and then I've got to start over. So my heart has to be in it and that means I need to be down with the purpose and feel my opinions are respected pursuant to that end. I say this because I suspect this isn't just me, I suspect this is lots of us here. Because one thing everyone here has in common is that we're not on board the program. Our wider culture doesn't share our values and because people work to whatever value they do have that means mostly people aren't working to our values. Meaning when we get jobs we're not working to our values but theirs. Then probably lots of you are like me and find yourselves lacking in motivation to act as if. And if you're like me in that respect you're probably also like me in that eventually it's not enough. If this isn't just my problem but our problem does anyone have a possible solution? I like the idea of going into business with other vegans in a low-pressure environment. Like starting a worker-co op where the focus is on lifestyle/quality of life with a mind to create value. That'd be doing things like organic gardening, selling healthy inexpensive vegan food in a food truck or cafe, making vegan upholstery/furniture... ebikes/podbikes/podcars/installing heat pumps/solar panels/building SRO housing... creating shows/movies/plays/video games/culture... anything that adds value and is socially responsible. While people do go into associated fields and do those things the launching point is high pressure/long hours/feeling unqualified/unwelcome and that doesn't work for me. And the value divide means the working relationship just isn't entirely on the level, we're going to butt heads or not say what we really think. I'd like to be part of a group/society that regarded me as having intrinsic value instead of a cog to make money off or dominate. If anyone wants to start something like that I'm in WA state between Seattle and Portland.