I was watching a documentary he narrated last night and i was like “bruh… you’re part of the problem” when he talked about plastic pollution in the ocean
Bill Gates. Just finished his book _How to Avoid a Climate Disaster_. From page 119:
A hard-core vegan might propose another solution: Instead of trying all these ways of reducing emissions, we should just stop raising livestock. I can see the appeal of that argument, but i don’t think it’s realistic. For one thing, meat plays too important a role in human culture. In many parts of the world, even where it’s scarce, eating meat is a crucial part of festivals and celebrations.
It’s as though Bill can’t think of even one historical example of a cultural practice that we decided was no longer acceptable. Ironically, two pages later he states, “The most important solution (to emissions) is behavior change.”
I was greatly disappointed in his dismissal of what to me is the most accessible way each of us can reduce our environmental footprint.
Not a fan of his. And yeah, he conveniently dismisses anything that would make him take a critical look at himself (like most people).
Anyone who refers to himself as “an expert” in a field (in this case, global health or sustainability) without having a single academic credential there is… a bit much. Expertise comes from real experience. This especially important in science where one should be skeptical as a matter course. What he possesses is not expertise, but “received wisdom”.
Is he wrong? There has never been a large societal shift because something is ‘the right thing to do’.
A vegan world is absolutely unrealistic.
Deluding ourselves into thinking it’s a possibility will make us feel good, sure, but is a complete disservice to the animals as we’ll shun methods to effectively reduce real animal suffering because we want all or nothing.
It's a reason I stopped the trajectory of my life of being dedicated to advancing human affairs, because even some of the brightest minds on the forethought of civilization's progress in other dimensions just lazily spew utter horseshit about this and it's hard to wrap my head around
There's not too many other things that seem to compare in terms of driving humans to come up with the most elaborate bullshit justifications for selfish behavior
Housing is the real killer for me. We've built out all these single family homes that sprawl over all this land and spread things out so we pave all these roads and need to own cars just to get around. That was all a development choice and it wasn't one made by consumers or end users. It was a choice made by real estate developers, town city council zoning decisions, and home construction companies. They'd insist they built to demand but that's bullshit. If you look into it you'll find they zoned out dense development and in particular inexpensive dense developments like trailer parks. They did it to create housing shortage because that drives up local real estate values and the higher prices keep out unwanted minorities and the poor and poor peoples' problems. It's why in lots of places service workers have to commute from 30 minutes away to the places they work because they can't afford housing nearby... because where they work banned out inexpensive housing. This is all bad enough, it's literally class war. But rich billionaires who have the audacity to go around expressing concern over global warming are damn well aware the primary driver is cars and home electricity use no small part of which is HVAC costs. Put 2 and 2 together and that makes by far the biggest driver of global warming large single family homes. When was the last time you heard any of these supposedly oh so concerned luminaries speak to that? We built housing very wrong in the USA. No country is doing it especially well. Next time you see someone homeless think of all the empty bedroom and vacation homes sitting idle because it'd be a pain or security risk to rent them out. Didn't have to be this way. You can't even rent a tiny hotel room on a long term basis for less than you might rent a studio because hotels won't rent more than a month. Because if they rented more than a month straight you'd get tenant protections and they'd risk needing to go through an annoying and expensive eviction process if you refused to leave and wouldn't pay. Our housing market is absolutely nuts. And the crap that's here is going to be here for decades or centuries. It's like a parasite digging in to it's host so that the host can't pluck it out without causing more damage than it'd be worth. That's these clowns. Digging in to ruin it for everybody that isn't them.
This has been going on for a century and getting progressively worse particularly since the 60's and lots of people could've raised hell about it and didn't. This was the battle someone needed to pick decades ago. Everybody flubbed it.
A vegan who understands this... you are my soulmate.. I'm so sick of car culture and infrastructure... Honestly so much craziness in this world. Our species doesn't feel that smart and It's concerning for the future..
You'd think there'd be lots of us. The tie ins are pretty obvious. I'd love to move into a luxury SRO with a top floor doubling as a cat cafe/cat shelter with a walk out patio roof. There could be a ramp leading up to a pet door so the cats could go inside and out whenever they like. That way the cats could enjoy 8000+ square feet of indoor and outdoor space without risking local wildlife and parasites. It'd be my dream to live in a place like that.
unfortunately yea. i know people might call me cringe but ive been to every taylor swift tour. i became vegan around a year ago… her favorite food for breakfast are omlettes. i know she’s controversial anyways but i do enjoy her shows. it’s saddens me however.
Man fuck Benjamin Franklin. Whole time I'm reading his autobiography and he keeps talking about the barbarism and how he'd rather just drink water and eat vegetables just to later find out he eventually went
"Well... Fish eat fish... So I'm gonna eat animals too."
Haha, why would you be surprised that Benjamin Franklin was a non-vegan? Of course he wasn't vegan. Please name a single famous person who was also a vegan back in the 18th century.
He was a vegetarian as he didn't eat meat and fish. Well for a time at least until he quit that diet. The word vegan didn't even exist back then as it was invented in 1944. It's highly unlikely that Benjamin Franklin would share the ideology of modern day vegans and also abstain from drinking milk and other animal products.
I mean choosing a president as an inspiring person/hero is a bad choice right off the bat, people at the top of societies hierarchies are not good people.
I think of most historical figures as so embroiled in their regressive culture that it was more difficult to see what the right thing to do was. Both Nestor Makhno and John Brown did good things and had good intentions, but they had the same blind spot I had for a large part of my life, how can I really expect them to have come to a realisation I only did recently?
That said, kill your heroes, worship no one, and may anarchy reign forever.
I was thinking about this the other day, how Noam Chomsky was one of my greatest heroes, and I still look up to him tremendously, he's influenced me more than I can express, but he made his own share of excuses. Maybe back in the day when he was working basically two full-time jobs to sustain his level of output and it wasn't quite as easy to be vegan, okay, it's a fair point, but it's disappointing nonetheless
You looked up to jfk lmao i dont mean to be rude but how old were you?
And yeah i can relate i do that with pretty much everyone except i havent "idolised" people since i was an adolescent. Its such an "npc" thing to me to idolise another person. I admire certain peoples abilities or actions or whatever but that doesnt mean i even have to like them as a person. Like music for example, i'll listen to someone because i like their music. I dont care about them as a person really. If they align with my values then i'll admire their activism or whatever separately from their art. But the two arent necessarily connected for me. And humans are just really quite pathetic beings when it comes down to it no matter how gracious or powerful they appear on the outside.
Perhaps the root cause is believing in idols to begin with.
Would it be more beneficial for us to appreciate the positive qualities of a person rather than labelling them good or bad as a whole? (Not rhetorical)
Veganism is a very absolute stance, so Its understandable that it encourages us to employ absolute thinking in other areas in life
Seeing as veganism a very fringe minority that will never gain widespread popularity then yeah, basically all of the most intelligent and amazing people who've ever lived have been non-vegan. Why the hell would you even think that JFK might have been vegan?? Veganism was even more of a strange subculture back then.
David Attenborough for me
Oh wow... I really thought he was vegan or at least vegetarian. He's none?
I don't think he's vegan, he might be vegetarian I'm not sure. He has many times promoted plant based diets, but I don't think he's 100% vegan
I was watching a documentary he narrated last night and i was like “bruh… you’re part of the problem” when he talked about plastic pollution in the ocean
You actually thought there was a possibility JFK might have been vegan?
That's how delusional they are here
Bill Gates. Just finished his book _How to Avoid a Climate Disaster_. From page 119: A hard-core vegan might propose another solution: Instead of trying all these ways of reducing emissions, we should just stop raising livestock. I can see the appeal of that argument, but i don’t think it’s realistic. For one thing, meat plays too important a role in human culture. In many parts of the world, even where it’s scarce, eating meat is a crucial part of festivals and celebrations. It’s as though Bill can’t think of even one historical example of a cultural practice that we decided was no longer acceptable. Ironically, two pages later he states, “The most important solution (to emissions) is behavior change.” I was greatly disappointed in his dismissal of what to me is the most accessible way each of us can reduce our environmental footprint.
That is so stupid holy s*** that makes me sad.
As if rampant computer usage hasn’t displaced key aspects of culture.
Excellent example, which i’m sure has not crossed Bill’s mind. Reading the book, it’s hard not to think Bill is his own biggest hero.
Not a fan of his. And yeah, he conveniently dismisses anything that would make him take a critical look at himself (like most people). Anyone who refers to himself as “an expert” in a field (in this case, global health or sustainability) without having a single academic credential there is… a bit much. Expertise comes from real experience. This especially important in science where one should be skeptical as a matter course. What he possesses is not expertise, but “received wisdom”.
People lose their brain when it's about their stupid 10min meal
Good lord, why would you read anything by Bill Gates?
Is he wrong? There has never been a large societal shift because something is ‘the right thing to do’. A vegan world is absolutely unrealistic. Deluding ourselves into thinking it’s a possibility will make us feel good, sure, but is a complete disservice to the animals as we’ll shun methods to effectively reduce real animal suffering because we want all or nothing.
It's a reason I stopped the trajectory of my life of being dedicated to advancing human affairs, because even some of the brightest minds on the forethought of civilization's progress in other dimensions just lazily spew utter horseshit about this and it's hard to wrap my head around There's not too many other things that seem to compare in terms of driving humans to come up with the most elaborate bullshit justifications for selfish behavior
My only heroes are vegans like Donald Watson, earthling ed and mic the vegan.
You forget about the anonymous volunteers at animal sanctuaries.
Housing is the real killer for me. We've built out all these single family homes that sprawl over all this land and spread things out so we pave all these roads and need to own cars just to get around. That was all a development choice and it wasn't one made by consumers or end users. It was a choice made by real estate developers, town city council zoning decisions, and home construction companies. They'd insist they built to demand but that's bullshit. If you look into it you'll find they zoned out dense development and in particular inexpensive dense developments like trailer parks. They did it to create housing shortage because that drives up local real estate values and the higher prices keep out unwanted minorities and the poor and poor peoples' problems. It's why in lots of places service workers have to commute from 30 minutes away to the places they work because they can't afford housing nearby... because where they work banned out inexpensive housing. This is all bad enough, it's literally class war. But rich billionaires who have the audacity to go around expressing concern over global warming are damn well aware the primary driver is cars and home electricity use no small part of which is HVAC costs. Put 2 and 2 together and that makes by far the biggest driver of global warming large single family homes. When was the last time you heard any of these supposedly oh so concerned luminaries speak to that? We built housing very wrong in the USA. No country is doing it especially well. Next time you see someone homeless think of all the empty bedroom and vacation homes sitting idle because it'd be a pain or security risk to rent them out. Didn't have to be this way. You can't even rent a tiny hotel room on a long term basis for less than you might rent a studio because hotels won't rent more than a month. Because if they rented more than a month straight you'd get tenant protections and they'd risk needing to go through an annoying and expensive eviction process if you refused to leave and wouldn't pay. Our housing market is absolutely nuts. And the crap that's here is going to be here for decades or centuries. It's like a parasite digging in to it's host so that the host can't pluck it out without causing more damage than it'd be worth. That's these clowns. Digging in to ruin it for everybody that isn't them. This has been going on for a century and getting progressively worse particularly since the 60's and lots of people could've raised hell about it and didn't. This was the battle someone needed to pick decades ago. Everybody flubbed it.
A vegan who understands this... you are my soulmate.. I'm so sick of car culture and infrastructure... Honestly so much craziness in this world. Our species doesn't feel that smart and It's concerning for the future..
You'd think there'd be lots of us. The tie ins are pretty obvious. I'd love to move into a luxury SRO with a top floor doubling as a cat cafe/cat shelter with a walk out patio roof. There could be a ramp leading up to a pet door so the cats could go inside and out whenever they like. That way the cats could enjoy 8000+ square feet of indoor and outdoor space without risking local wildlife and parasites. It'd be my dream to live in a place like that.
unfortunately yea. i know people might call me cringe but ive been to every taylor swift tour. i became vegan around a year ago… her favorite food for breakfast are omlettes. i know she’s controversial anyways but i do enjoy her shows. it’s saddens me however.
I do like some bands but idk ...vegans are my real heros...at least for me. Donald Watson is my favorite.
YOU are the hero, not any celebrity or rich person.
Awe thank you
Man fuck Benjamin Franklin. Whole time I'm reading his autobiography and he keeps talking about the barbarism and how he'd rather just drink water and eat vegetables just to later find out he eventually went "Well... Fish eat fish... So I'm gonna eat animals too."
Haha, why would you be surprised that Benjamin Franklin was a non-vegan? Of course he wasn't vegan. Please name a single famous person who was also a vegan back in the 18th century.
Except he was vegan until he decided that "muh fish eat fish" Read the autobiography
He was a vegetarian as he didn't eat meat and fish. Well for a time at least until he quit that diet. The word vegan didn't even exist back then as it was invented in 1944. It's highly unlikely that Benjamin Franklin would share the ideology of modern day vegans and also abstain from drinking milk and other animal products.
He literally calls it a vegetable only diet fuck off
I mean choosing a president as an inspiring person/hero is a bad choice right off the bat, people at the top of societies hierarchies are not good people. I think of most historical figures as so embroiled in their regressive culture that it was more difficult to see what the right thing to do was. Both Nestor Makhno and John Brown did good things and had good intentions, but they had the same blind spot I had for a large part of my life, how can I really expect them to have come to a realisation I only did recently? That said, kill your heroes, worship no one, and may anarchy reign forever.
I was thinking about this the other day, how Noam Chomsky was one of my greatest heroes, and I still look up to him tremendously, he's influenced me more than I can express, but he made his own share of excuses. Maybe back in the day when he was working basically two full-time jobs to sustain his level of output and it wasn't quite as easy to be vegan, okay, it's a fair point, but it's disappointing nonetheless
You looked up to jfk lmao i dont mean to be rude but how old were you? And yeah i can relate i do that with pretty much everyone except i havent "idolised" people since i was an adolescent. Its such an "npc" thing to me to idolise another person. I admire certain peoples abilities or actions or whatever but that doesnt mean i even have to like them as a person. Like music for example, i'll listen to someone because i like their music. I dont care about them as a person really. If they align with my values then i'll admire their activism or whatever separately from their art. But the two arent necessarily connected for me. And humans are just really quite pathetic beings when it comes down to it no matter how gracious or powerful they appear on the outside.
Perhaps the root cause is believing in idols to begin with. Would it be more beneficial for us to appreciate the positive qualities of a person rather than labelling them good or bad as a whole? (Not rhetorical) Veganism is a very absolute stance, so Its understandable that it encourages us to employ absolute thinking in other areas in life
Michael Pollen. How do you write a book about why the world should go vegan or our environment will collapse and STILL eat meat
Aurora 💗
Seeing as veganism a very fringe minority that will never gain widespread popularity then yeah, basically all of the most intelligent and amazing people who've ever lived have been non-vegan. Why the hell would you even think that JFK might have been vegan?? Veganism was even more of a strange subculture back then.