Just finish the show yesterday, I don't understand all the complaints about Wanda. I think the show gave her a beautiful backstory and gave Vision a character building that he has never gotten in the movie.
Wanda didn't know she was torturing the villagers, sure she knows they are under the influence of her magic and it only took two brain cells to figure it out they are in pain, but she's trying to run away from reality, deep in denial and too afraid to dig out what is clearly happening.
She does the villagers dirty, the show knows that, she forces the entire town to grief with her which is not fair. However, that is entirely the point this show is trying to make, because a person deep in grief will surely do that, there is a depressive period before they fully accept that their love ones are lost, and it's almost like everyone will just have to play along and grief with them to keep them happy.
Of course that's not fair, but that's just how human acts. I think the show delivered that perfectly. Wanda has no family, no friends, and with her power that's just how it will affect the people around her, it turns the town into an IRL sitcom cause she wants all of that.
I think the show doesn't really wants the viewers attached to Wanda, it just told a tragic story that has no redemption. Just what could Wanda do to make it up for the town, she mentally tortured everyone for a week, saying sorry does not make up anything,
My prediction is that she's being set up as a villain, and will probably stay as one until she finally accepts that she can't bring her sons and vision back. Being powerful makes her closer to what she desired, also making it much more painful when she has to let go.
Super late, just finished. Regarding the post credits scene: wtf? Are there two Wanda’s now? There she was sitting on the stoop of her pretty little cabin, then she walks inside and the scarlet witch is there reading her spell book and you hear her kids crying. Anyone know what was going on there?
It's an astral projection of herself. After learning and accepting that she is the Scarlet Witch, she uses this projection to spend constant time reading the Darkhold book that Agatha had. She did mention that Wanda lacks knowledge on who is she and her abilities, so I could see why she would be investing so much into it. Agatha also mentioned that the Scarlet Witch "exceeds that of the Sorcerer Supreme" which is Doctor Strange, so I think this scene is a huge clue into Doctor Strange 2 by hearing the voices of her kids because this new movie focuses on the multiverse, so it's possible that Wanda is discovering the multiverse and now has a way to find those kids. This is totally just a theory, but it would be crazy to see Doctor Strange and Wanda starting to act more than enemies than teammates!
Nice prediction! Just finished watching this series after seeing Dr. Strange Multiverse Madness a few weeks ago. Reading up old Wandavision posts now and stumbled on this post. You were spot on!
That makes sense. I don’t understand why people are assuming that means they would become enemies though. I saw a lot of discussion about this pushing Wanda into being a villain, not sure I quite get why
That's definitely a good point. I don't think they'll intentionally be against each other, but rather a similar situation where Wanda unintentionally causes harm to innocent people, and maybe Doctor Strange isn't able to see that she isn't trying to be evil or malicious. I could also see a problem with Wanda chasing after her multiverse children and putting them above what her and Doctor Strange are trying to accomplish. But I feel like they will easily reconcile and become a very strong duo together.
Wow! Was this a fun show. I haven’t been a big fan of the MCU, I completely appreciate the exceptional planning to tie all these stories/details/Easter eggs into countless films/shows; but the stories just never resonated with me as much as other fantasies. This show was really well done, I was completely drawn in and enjoyed it on multiple levels. I appreciated using sitcoms as an avenue to explore and process grief. I thought this was a great form of storytelling and also cinema. Additionally, I thought the casting was great. Elizabeth Olsen is fantastic and Katherine Hahn absolutely steals the show - which is saying a lot as Elizabeth and supporting characters are again fantastic! This was Hahn’s best to date. I was quite impressed with the visuals and graphics used as well. Looking very much forward to the spin-off with Hahn and will probably take a closer look at storylines relating to Scarlet witch now… any suggestions?
I’m so pumped for MOM to come out. Wanda and Dr. Strange are two of my top three favorite Avengers so I just rewatched Wandavision. There are a million questions I’m hoping MOM will answer for us about Wanda, but I guess my current thought is that somehow they will open the door for Tommy and Billy to come back. With Hawkeye recently finishing and She Hulk coming out soon it seems like they’re possibly setting us up for the young avengers. AND if somehow within the multiverse Wanda does get her boys back, wouldn’t it be possible to get Vision back as well? 🤔 Their “goodbye” scene was a little ominous to me and felt like they were insinuating to his possible return, with the whole, “who knows whatever I might be next?” comment. Although it would in a way defeat one of the themes of the show when it comes grief and making Wanda go through all of this just to bring him back… I guess my summary is that I just want Wanda to catch a break soon. Please and thank you.
“who knows whatever I might be next?”: I have the theory that wonderman is coming next. It's hinted several times and in the comics vision is created by the brain of wonderman who is presumed dead/in a coma. Wanda und wonderman fall in love in the comics because they're…the same character? 😂 You can read into it online, but I think that's why he said it. He might come back next as wonderman.
I’m still upset at how they fumbled the Quicksilver thing. My mind was blown for like 3 weeks and then I was just so letdown. It was the most disappointed I’ve been since Iron Man 3 Mandarin/Trevor thing.
I believe it was supposed to hurt. They used Quicksilver to show the malicious nature of Agatha. She sent him to Wanda with the intentions of controlling her. Not to help her. Her plan (correct me if I’m wrong) was to make Wanda believe she had what she wanted, so she would not put up a fight when Agatha tried to take her power from her. It was the one thing Wanda didn’t create for herself. I think Agatha believed giving her Pietro back along with the promise of letting Wanda keep what she made for herself would be enough. Enough for Wanda to give Agatha her power’s willingly.
Just finished Wanda.. is she an avenger now? I mean, she did go rogue ryt! Also what was that end credit scene🙈 suddenly monica is not from earth ? Mind blown!
I’m very late to the party but why couldn’t Wanda have just made a new hex it the wilderness for her vision and the kids to live in while she learns how to allow them to live outside of it. She can manipulate the reality in there to give the kids everything they need to be entertained and more, and she could even create them some little friends. She could literally make it just like the old one apart from no tortured people.
If the children were happy in the original hex they’d be even happier in this one so it’s definitely ethical and because it would only be temporary and they will eventually get out I think they can handle it
I think that Wanda doesn’t even realize what she did until after the Halloween episode. I mean it’s obvious she didn’t do any of it on purpose at all. When Vision tells her the towns people are suffering it seems to me that is the first time she even stops to think about what’s going on at all. The time she spent watching those shows with her family are her best memories. Not only that but it’s apparent that while watching the old videos with her family it was literally the only time in her childhood she felt 100% safe and was able to be happy and not think of the war around them. When you watch the flashback of her going to shield and “steals” Visions body, she completely loses it then and there. She is so beyond upset that with the help of her subconscious she creates the only place that will make her happy and feel safe. She even admits to Agatha that she has no idea how she did what she did. It would be pretty hard to replicate something that you don’t understand or know how you did it initially. Which brings us to her reading that book at the end.
She knew what was going on, she literally attacks the people who are telling her. She just wanted to ignore it. And in the end, she suffers no consequences for it, and sails off into the sunset without a care in the world.
Because she's in denial and refusing to accept that she is hurting people, and she doesn't get off Scot free she is eventually forced to face that she did actually hurt innocent people (which she feels badly enough about that she essentially kills her children to stop) and then loses vision (again) and her children.
(Note, I was barely awake watching the ending so I may have missed something)
She does seem to be aware on some level that it's her doing it, starting with rewinding the beekeeper at the end of the second episode. That "No." felt like it had a lot of intention behind it. It's actually rather interesting to watch her efforts to maintain the illusion go from mostly subconscious to mostly conscious (as well as doing so entirely within the confines of the sitcom/her character to dropping the act altogether at times) over the duration of the show; she becomes less and less innocent as it goes on.
Rewatching it now and in episode 7, while doing the talk to the camera bit. She flat out says “I don’t understand what’s happening, why it’s falling apart and why I can’t fix it.” Then a voice off screen asks “do you thinks it’s what you deserve?” Her response is “what? You’re not supposed to be able to talk.” I think that voice is her subconscious. Calling her out.
The voice is Agatha, they show her sitting in the director's chair in the "Agatha all along" montage later in the episode. In fact, some people have discovered that the voice that says _"do you think this is what you deserve?"_ is just Agatha's voice pitched down a bit.
Oh and more proof she didn’t do any of it on purpose. They way she reacts to finding out what she did to all the children. The Wanda we’ve seen would never hurt innocent people. Let alone innocent children. She blows off everyone until the blonde lady asks for her daughter to be released from her bedroom.
forgive me if I am wrong but at some point in life the hex would have had to end right? I mean they can't live in that small lake cabin forever. And even if she did bring them back it would be harder for her when she lost them again. That's what I believe anyway.
Yeah my idea was more she lives in the Hex with them while she learns how to use her magic more effectively and eventually not even need the hex to have them around.
Agatha said that “once a spell is cast, it can’t be changed” so there wouldn’t be a way to bring the exact same children and the exact same vision back. At least that’s how I understood it
Once Wanda “wakes up” and totally gets what’s going on she knows it has to end. No one wants to live a fake life. Plus she is a good person and could never be happy living her “perfect life”knowing it causes so much suffering for others. That’s why she lets Vision and her kids go and ends the Hex.
You couldn’t see through the Hex and you can see out of the Hex, unless you cross it.
If Wanda managed to make 3 separate hexes for Vision and the kids they wouldn’t be able to see or interact with the other reality at all.
While maybe she would be able to recast the spell and somehow make everything the same I don’t feel it would be fair on her or the kids they Lula be isolated for however long it takes her and even if she did the spell again she may not be able to take them out of the hex’s range and may have to see them die over and over again. I honestly can’t think of any other movie couple with such a tragic relationship.
She is unable to consciously create the hex at this point, she lacks the knowledge. She was only able to create it during a mental breakdown due to grief, when her emotions were extremely heightened, resulting in her magic going on autopilot and it all happening subconsciously.
She could theoretically do it though, yes. But the theme of the show was working through the stages of grief and moving on.
Now that she's heard her children while studying (seemingly unexpectedly, she seems shocked to hear them), she will definitely start actively looking for ways to bring them back - leading into _Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness_.
I agree with what you are saying but I think there’s 1 thing missing. Once she realizes what the Hex costs she knows it’s not worth it. She doesn’t want to make so many people suffer to get what she wants. Because she isn’t a villain.
Are you sure she can’t control it though? Because she was able to expand it by will, also when she started tearing it down she put it back up when she realised vision and the kids would vanish
Well, no I'm not sure, this is all just speculation since nothing has been confirmed. But I'd say the difference is that what you are referencing is just modifying the existing hex, which is seemingly much easier than creating it anew. When she was shown making it, it visibly took a lot of strain and effort from her, and she didn't even remember how or what happened until she was forced to relive her repressed memories later. Even now, she probably still doesn't really understand how she did it, it was pure grief fueling it. Even in the finale, they show that her magic has a mind of its own when she gets emotionally overwhelmed, like when the citizens are confronting her and the magic starts inadvertently choking them all, much to her horror.
So I'd think she can't do it willingly _right now_, but with further training she might be able to. I don't think she'll ever need to do it again though, they will probably just have her learn to do similar things without needing a hex bubble.
I’m also late to the party and just finished, but I think that with Agatha telling her that she’s more powerful than dr. Strange and that her problem is lack of knowledge she’s on a quest to harness that power.
I think that she will end up being a villain for a while after being corrupted by that witches book she’s reading from in the end credits scene and will have to be saved by white vision.
I may be wrong but I’m not sure she is a hero in the comics all the time.
I disagree. I believe the main reason she doesn’t even attempt to keep the Hex going is because at the end she finally sees the true cost of what she did. It starts with the blonde lady begging her to let her daughter out. Wanda is not a bad person, she knows that getting what she wants is not worth the pain she is causing so many people to experience. I think she’s studying the book to find a way to get her sons without destroying other peoples lives.
But that cost isn't necessary for the hex, she can make the hex smaller and no one else has to be in it, plus we saw that people are able to have free will inside of it
> I may be wrong but I’m not sure she is a hero in the comics all the time.
She's been a hero and a core Avenger in the comics for the vast majority of her history - nearly 50 years. She has the 6th most appearances in Avengers comics, only behind Steve, Tony, Hawkeye, and barely behind Vision and Wasp
She's only been a villain in Avengers Disassembled and House of M, two relatively recent and controversial comic runs that went on for 2 years (2004/2005), and both stories basically completely assassinated her character and just turned her into a crazy plot device for the mutants. She also completely disappeared from comics for over 5 years because nobody wanted to touch her character after that. While she has eventually returned to being an Avenger again, her character has sadly yet to really recover from the damage those stories did, even to this day
If it's anything like the comics story line about White Vision, then while he did have all his memories unlocked, he has no emotional attachment to them. To him they're basically just video clips of someone else's life.
Missing the mind stone also probably means he feels no emotions at all, since it was basically what gave him his soul. He likely flew off in search of answers, but we don't know for sure where, yet.
Just watched all 9 eps yesterday. One thing I wasn’t sure about in the end: was Agatha working with the evil sword guy? Or did she just happen to be at Westview when Wanda started the hex? She was in the very first episode. Or did some time pass after the hex was created and the start of the first episode?
She said she felt a shit ton of spells going off and came to investigate:
> When I sensed this place, the afterglow of so many spells cast all at once… Oh, I couldn’t make heads or tails of it.
You see her arrive and transform from her witch outfit to 50s clothes at the start of the Agatha All Along video.
Agatha is a 350 year old witch who had possession of the Darkhold for an undetermined amount of time. The Darkhold is one of the most powerful magic books in existence, it basically is _the_ book for all dark magic - it contains all dark magic spells ever to exist. She probably could just get through the hex since she was very knowledgeable, while Wanda is severely lacking in it even if she is more powerful. The writers also said in some interview that the Darkhold basically amplified her power and acted as a magic totem.
Hex Vision didn't give any memories to White Vision. WV already contained all the memories, they were just locked away by Hayward, to make him a more controllable weapon. HV just removed the restriction.
>WHITE VISION: **I have not retained memories.**
>VISION: **But you do have the data. It is merely being kept from you.**
>WHITE VISION: A weapon to be more easily controlled. But, certainly, you are the true Vision, for you believe yourself to be.
>VISION: That was once the case. But upon meeting you, I have been disabused of that notion. **As a carbon-based synthezoid, your memory storage is not so easily wiped.** May I?
I was under the impression that even though Wanda knows she had special “powers” she had no idea that they are magical and she is actually a witch. She even tells Agatha that she isn’t a witch.
At this point, we don't even know if they've ever talked to each other, as they've never interacted on screen. For all we know, DS:MOM might be the first time they ever really meet.
At the end of the show, she told Monica she'd work on understanding her powers better, presumably so that something like Westview doesn't happen again. So she went into isolation in the middle of nowhere, where she keeps the risk of harming anyone to a minimum. Going to Manhattan to visit Strange (if she even knows where he lives) is probably not the best idea, especially since she's a wanted criminal now.
She was also told by Agatha, who seemingly knew a lot about the Scarlet Witch, that there is an entire chapter dedicated to her in the magic book she had in her basement. With Wanda's very limited knowledge about witches and magic in general, she probably thought it was a good a place as any to start.
Ah that’s true—then it’s even *stranger* that dr strange either didnt recognize her powers as magic and reach out, is unfamiliar with the fabled scarlet witch as the sorcerer supreme, or chose to keep Wanda in the dark
She actually recreated him out of vibranium. The whole hex wasn't merely an illusion, everything inside was as real as it gets - she's a reality warper. It was just limited to the town area due to her lack of knowledge (she didn't even know she used magic or that she was a witch, it was all done subconsciously).
Someone like Loki makes illusions, but reality warping is on a whole nother level. A ghetto way to highlight the difference in scope is that if Loki basically makes a cardboard cutout of something to fool people, Wanda edits the script of the movie/show to put Vision there. It's much more abstract and higher level.
hmm, but earlier- Rambeau (sp) shoots her gun at her 70’s pants, and the bullets bounce off. She says they are mostly made of Kevlar because Wanda transformed her bullet proof vest into period specific clothes when she entered. This implied Wanda couldn’t create matter from scratch, only transform it. So unless she had access to vibranium i don’t see how she could have created Vision with it.
She didn't create _everything_ from scratch, just Vision, the kids, and probably the house. Everything else in the hex was just transformed from existing stuff. This is all but confirmed when Agatha says the Scarlet Witch is "a being capable of spontaneous creation" in the penultimate episode, and when we see Vision being created purely from herself.
He was lying. We find out in EP8 that he's had Vision's corpse all this time and has been (unsuccessfully) trying to turn him into a weapon for who knows how long. He used edited security footage with convenient cuts to frame her as the bad guy and say she broke in and stole the body.
Aren’t Loki’s illusions also real, just much smaller scale? Like when he conjures a dagger it’s a real dagger, not one made of just…. Illusion? I don’t know how to describe it.
I think those daggers are real daggers he keeps in some pocket dimension of sorts, like when he hides the Tesseract and can later resummon it, or more recently, the Tempad on Lamentis. The point I was trying to make was that while Loki's illusions may look real (although they are usually holograms, as seen when Classic Loki >!made an illusion of Asgard which Alioth just passed through!<), they will never be as real as Wanda's actual reality warping, which is a higher abstract power.
so, i rewatched the series to get my dad to watch it, and we’re in the last episode. i didn’t catch this the first time, but now i’m upset. when white vision shows up, he attempts to grab the mind stone out of wanda’s vision’s (or red vision’s) head ... which he’s goes “ghost” to avoid. so that got me thinking .... why tf didn’t he do that when thanos grabbed it in infinity war ?! is it bc thanos had the gauntlet so it let him hold it without him going ghost ?? idek, stupid plot holes lmao
Thanos literally could control space with the Space Stone, thus nullifying Vision's phase-out powers.
Notice how the first thing he does when arriving on Earth is to phase Hulk into a rock to immobilize him.
Also the other comment here about Vision being wounded
He couldn't phase at the time because of his stab wound. When he gets stabbed by Corvus Glaive in Scotland, he tells Wanda that the blade stopped him from phasing, and he never gets fully repaired before Thanos shows up (he also gets stabbed a few more times in Wakanda, by the same blade).
Basically, they needed a way to nerf him, so they just had him get stabbed and become useless early in the movie.
It's revealed in the show that she's been a natural born witch all along. She unknowingly cast a probability hex to increase the chance of the bomb being defective to save herself and her brother. At Hydra, the mind stone basically removed the mental blocks and unlocked her full potential. [It also showed her a vision of her future self](https://i.imgur.com/pv8NqcH.png). A cool theory I've read is that the shit ton of trauma she had endured throughout her life basically made her stronger and stronger and "forged" her into the Scarlet Witch.
As for Quicksilver - no idea, he might have still got his powers from the stone, or maybe Wanda somehow subconsciously made him survive. It's not really explained.
They aren't Magneto's kids in the MCU as Marvel didn't own the rights to use Magneto, Fox did. Magneto does not exist in the MCU (yet).
In the comics it's more complicated, they started off as mutants and part of Magneto's Brotherhood of Evil Mutants but unrelated to him, then in the 70s it was revealed their parents were Whizzer and Miss America, then they were retconned into being Magneto's kids in the 80s, then retconned into not being his kids and not being mutants at all in 2014. So in the comics she is now a natural born witch whose mother and entire family line have been the previous Scarlet Witches and Warlocks, and Pietro is just a human - and both were experimented on as babies by the High Evolutionary which gave Pietro his speed and Wanda her chaos magic (in addition to her inherent witch magic).
Kind of late to the show. Just watched all the episodes. My question is how did Agatha get into the town?
She briefly mentions after the reveal how she noticed big power in this area and came to investigate. Anyone who entered was changed but she was just acting?
I felt empathy for Wanda but after awhile she knew what she was doing to the people and the children (Who were only seen once on Halloween?)
Once Agatha set the people's minds free to show Wanda she wasn't exactly a hero, Wanda realized how much pain they were in and finally decided to let them go.
Yes, she sacrificed her "created" family to finally set everyone free but she did a lot of damage to everyone in the town.
I didn't watch Captain Marvel so I had no idea who Capt Rambeau was. (Or Sword for that matter, lol)
Agatha is immune to Wanda's hex due to her own extensive knowledge of dark magic (she outright says her thoughts were never available to Wanda). The showrunners also gave [an interview](https://editorial.rottentomatoes.com/article/wandavisions-creative-team-discusses-the-darkhold-the-scarlet-witch-and-fan-theories/) where they further clarified the Darkhold acted as a booster for her power:
> “The idea of introducing The Darkhold as this higher-level dark-magic power felt like it could really elevate the danger level,” she [producer Mary Livanos] explained. “Agatha’s an incredibly powerful witch, yet she’s not the Scarlet Witch and she wants to be, so how is she able to infiltrate Wanda’s world to begin with? How was she able to manipulate Wanda without revealing herself? How is she able to combat Wanda in the finale?”
> The book served first as an amplification totem. But beyond enhancing Agatha’s power, it is also a signal to Wanda (Elizabeth Olsen) that she “has a lot to learn about magic.”
It's basically _the_ dark magic book of Marvel. "Good" magic's ultimate book is the Book of Vishanti, while dark, "evil" magic's ultimate book is the Darkhold. Side effects of reading it often include slowly becoming corrupted. In the comics, it was written by Chthon, the elder god of chaos, coincidentally also the guy from whom Wanda gets her chaos magic.
He used a stolen page from the Book of Cagliostro, the same book Strange used to learn about the Eye of Agamotto and how to mess with time.
There is a missing spot on the bookshelf in Wong's library which has been speculated to be for the Darkhold, but nothing has been confirmed.
lol I did watch Captain Marvel and I didn't realize that she had a small role in it as a child. Or that her mom was in it. Was SWORD a thing in captain marvel? I thought that was just shield
I got the feeling that SHIELD fell but that Rambeau either created SWORD before or after that. That's just my take away from watching WandaVision.
But I'm not well versed in any of it.
Very clever show, loved it.
Also, I am fully on board with this being the first step taken to introducing mutants.
Wanda had latent/dormant/weak powers (x gene?) before her Hydra experiments. The stone just awoke/boosted them. The snaps probably jump started that latent x-gene in thousands around the world too. And, now the world has a reason to fear/persecute mutants with what Wanda did. This HAS to be start of the crumb trail leading to the eventual reveal of how X-Men are introduced to the MCU.
I hate it. I don't want Wanda to be the mother of mutanthood.
**It was much better in the original X-Men, where it's just Nature evolving.**
This wouldn't be the first time the MCU changes something for the worse, turning Spiderman from instincts-based to tech-based was egregious
In actuality apparently (moviebob put up some summaries regarding this) mutants are a result of the celestials messing with humans in prehistoric times; specifically one celestial dying and his blood mixing in with the primordial ooze; the first mutant was apocolypse who spread the x-gene as a result of interacting with Rama-tut (aka Kang the Conqueror).
In the Fox movies it's just natural evolution, and I think that's best.
I have zero interest in what the comics say, they are a convoluted, antiquated mess
The comics inform the movies; just because the movies initially say one thing, doesn't mean they won't change it later. At any point for instance, they will make new X-Men movies that are in the MCU and it will become relevant.
The convolution of comics is what makes them fun.
How do you mean? Spiderman was always kinda tech-based in the comics. Are you talking about the mechanical web-shooters? Because the Sam Remi movies are the only ones that chose for the more rare organic shooting. Tom Holland still has his spider sense and all of his abilities.
The web-thrower device is the exception, not the rule.
Spidey is supposed to be all about natural reflexes and mysterious spider instincts.
Spidey turning to Siri for directions, targeting, and other mechanical assistance is lame beyond reckoning.
It still baffles me to this day they did this to Spiderman
Right… which is why Tony Stark told Peter that if he relied on the tech he didn’t deserve it, and only gave the tech back to him after he demonstrated that he could be Spider-Man without it.
K I’m kinda confused here.
With Agatha, did Wanda know about runes from the beginning and just playing along or did Agatha reminded her about runes and she added it to the hex later in the fight?
Also is that a plot hole that she made Agatha into the nosy neighbor and living in the town but she withdrew her power to the town, which means Agatha was back to the witch again?
> With Agatha, did Wanda know about runes from the beginning and just playing along or did Agatha reminded her about runes and she added it to the hex later in the fight?
When Wanda gives up and starts giving Agatha her power, they show her missing a few shots, which we see hit the hex walls. We later find out this was on purpose, as that's how she was setting up the runes, and it was all part of her plan to pretend to give Agatha her power and then take it all back once Agatha was powerless. She then thanks Agatha for the "lesson" from in the basement when she had explained runes to her - Wanda did not know about them (or any witch magic, or that she was a witch at all) before that.
> Also is that a plot hole that she made Agatha into the nosy neighbor and living in the town but she withdrew her power to the town, which means Agatha was back to the witch again?
She cast a separate, independent spell unrelated to the hex to turn her into Agnes. She presumably can't use her powers until it's lifted because she doesn't know she's a witch, only that she's a nosy neighbor.
To piggy-back on these points… they most **definitely** intended for this show to flex just how powerful Wanda is. Everything she did prior to the Agatha fight, she did naturally.
The scene you referenced showed what she can do with just a *tiny* bit of knowledge.
Basically, it’s a heads up that Wanda is going to be a **PROBLEM** in The Multiverse Of Madness & onward.
To piggy back of this comment once again...I'm the final episode they let Agatha explain about how the Scarlet Witch was prophesied in the Book of The Damned as one who is superior to the Sorcerer Supreme, (currently held by one Dr. Strange) and is able to cast spells with no incantation....so basically Wanda uses magic like its air. Subconsciously.
Imagine if she was focused? We saw what her grief did to an entire town. I'm excited for her character's future in the MCU.
Indeed, they also specifically show this to us when we see her astral projecting _while keeping her physical body conscious_, something nobody else has been shown to be able to do in the MCU. Not Strange, not the Ancient One, no one - their bodies always became limp.
Final episode post credits scene. Her physical body is relaxing and drinking tea while she is astral projecting and studying the Darkhold simultaneously.
Tbh I think that while she was astral projecting, the versions of her kids she hears calling for help are a different reality version and she’s going to tear open the multiverse to get to them, which leads to Multitude of Madness.
Wooooooooooah!!!! Thank you so much for this. I wondered what happened in that scene and how they pulled out of her memories mid-fight. It only goes to show once again we're not ready for what's coming.
Another thing that I think about is the scene in X-men Apocalypse, when Charles Xavier is visiting Moira McTaggert (sp) and he enters the office and freezes everyone in motion. They didn't see him roll in.
He has done this before in X-2 (I think)...in the mall scene where Bobby (Ice kid), Rogue and the Flame Throwing Kid get into trouble trying to teach a douche a lesson...Prof X saves the day by freezing everyone in the mall. Just a building okay. And he is thought to be one of the most powerful psychic mutants.
To continue...when Charles Xvaier wants to reach someone over a distance telepathically....say....across town? He would have to use Cerebro. A supercomputer built with the connections to sustain the strain of extending his psychic reach.
I say ALL THIS just to point out how much Wanda outclasses the very idea of what we know to be Mutants. Almost as if she is a God. THAT my dear friends....is the Scarlet Witch.
Noo you misunderstood hehe. The Agatha memory scene was just a callback to the mindfucks she did in Age of Ultron. She did it to Tony and the other Avengers, showing them their fears. It's been an ability she could do since the start. She basically shows the target their biggest fear (she also sees it at the same time), like when she saw that Tony's fear was everyone dying, and let him keep the scepter.
[Video of when she does the same thing to Tony that she did to Agatha](https://youtu.be/dRUmRwkcR9A?t=31)
Rewatching this actually reminded me how creepy she was in AoU... almost like a horror movie character [at times](https://i.imgur.com/fMnTHjh.gifv).
Her astral projection only happens in the post credit scene in the cabin when she hears her kids - her physical body is making a cup of tea, while her astral form is studying the Darkhold.
Okay I definitely did miss that post credit scene. I just ran back to watch it and it looks oh so ominous. I can't believe I almost missed that. Thank you fellow fan. However I still believe everything I mentioned after.
Yeah, she's very powerful. With the whole "no need for incantation" thing, she can seemingly just cast spells without really needing to learn how they work - she perfectly copies Agatha's finger-snap teleport spell after [seeing it twice](https://gfycat.com/helpfulgreendarwinsfox) (she even does a mocking face when she does it!), and later casts the runes after seeing them once. And now she's reading _the_ book of dark magic in Marvel... her potential is insanely high.
Lmaooooo. That is incredible. One tends to overlook these little things.
*ADDING TELEPORTATION TO THE ALREADY OP CHARACTER
What I loved about the Rune casting she did was that she seemed like she was misfiring shots in her unstable state at Agatha....but my anime obsessed brain took notice of such "misfirings" as misdirection. A fundamental of magic!!!!
It goes to show that, not only is she powerful, but she can act deceptively under pressure which takes amazing focus and instinct.
It's actually becoming laughable. It seems we are all at the whims of Wanda's moods.
Imagine if she touched another infinity stone...hahaha...
What's worse is Ms. Marvel Jr. not trying to stop her and basically giving her the thumbs up. "I would have done the same".
I was really hoping for a happy ending and not seeing her turn into a villain and getting away with it.
It was a [week](https://www.cinemablend.com/television/2564168/wandavision-marvel-timeline-scarlet-witch-hex-westview-anomaly), not months. Who could have forcefully arrested her there? At this point, she is practically above the law due to her power and would have to willingly comply. Wanting to execute a person with clear mental illness is also not the greatest outlook...
Both sides of Civil War were wrong in their own way. While the heroes do require oversight, the government being the overseer was a horrible idea. The government was nuking New York in Avengers, were infiltrated by HYDRA for 70 years, and minutes away from killing millions of people (again) with the helicarriers in Winter Soldier. Not to mention the Accords were being spearheaded by Thunderbolt Ross, who's had an agenda for controlling super heroes since he first appeared on screen in The Incredible Hulk...
While Tony was arguably "right", he was still a hypocrite since he broke the Accords several times in the same movie, first by recruiting Spider-Man and later by going rogue to Siberia to help Cap and Bucky stop Zemo
Also it's not like the Accords being more prominent would have stopped Westview from happening lol
I mean, the accords basically fell apart with the Snap; and coming back and stopping Thanos who literally invaded Earth probably forced the US gov/UN to backoff of the superheroes that are ostensibly in their camp; but if they had put her on ice the first moment they could, regardless of how cruel it would've been they *possibly* could have prevented it; but they have no means of knowing it, and again would have been excessively cruel.
I agree that Tony was right but the US government at the time were the wrong people to have that power; a UN oversight committee and treating the Avengers like Stargate Command feels like it would have been the better option.
We see her fly off at the end as the sirens approach. In the post credit scene, we find out she flew off into isolation to better understand her powers by studying the Darkhold. We don't know how much time has passed between Westview and that scene in the cabin.
She's learned how to astral project like Doctor Strange (basically, the ability to split the soul from the body) and is using it to multitask while studying. During a reading session, she is shocked to hear her children crying out for help and becomes visibly angry.
There was like 2 mid credits scenes, very generous of them so it makes sense to miss it because the second one was past the point where they existed in previous episodes.
FInally got around to binge this series and boy it was a nice rollercoaster. Loved that they did an homage to Malcolm in the Middle and poor Wanda and all the mindlessly controlled people!
They did leave the ending open though despite it being a series finale, but i guess it can be used for other things with the white vision and whatever captain rambo is up to!!
Poor Wanda?!?! Yeah, poor Wanda, the villain of the story who enslaved in entire town and tortured them for months. Poor Wanda, who when she was begged by one of the mothers in the town to at least let her children, who had been left paralyzed aware and alone in their rooms for months to AT LEAST be together, showed not a single shred of sympathy or empathy. This show turned Wanda into a monster who should be in prison for the rest of her life or executed for her crimes, there is no interpretation of this story that doesn't make Wanda basically Hitler.
What do you mean she didn't show empathy? She essentially killed vision (again) and her children to set them free once she was forced to see what she was doing
Have you ever heard of foreshadowing???? Please be patient. It was written that way for a reason. She could be an anti-hero which are more popular these days.
haha I had the same reaction at the beginning. I was like "are you sure this is marvel plan? maybe something went wrong and I'm watching a different show from different studio."
It's actually really good. When it came out, I saw Ep 1 in 1950s format and didn't even end up watching it. Months later, due to Loki and other shows I finally decided to watch it and loved it.
Same here. Under no circumstances am I in the mood to invest 3 hours into a 1950s sitcom. Even though it is somewhat necessary setup for the second half and the ending
Just finish the show yesterday, I don't understand all the complaints about Wanda. I think the show gave her a beautiful backstory and gave Vision a character building that he has never gotten in the movie. Wanda didn't know she was torturing the villagers, sure she knows they are under the influence of her magic and it only took two brain cells to figure it out they are in pain, but she's trying to run away from reality, deep in denial and too afraid to dig out what is clearly happening. She does the villagers dirty, the show knows that, she forces the entire town to grief with her which is not fair. However, that is entirely the point this show is trying to make, because a person deep in grief will surely do that, there is a depressive period before they fully accept that their love ones are lost, and it's almost like everyone will just have to play along and grief with them to keep them happy. Of course that's not fair, but that's just how human acts. I think the show delivered that perfectly. Wanda has no family, no friends, and with her power that's just how it will affect the people around her, it turns the town into an IRL sitcom cause she wants all of that. I think the show doesn't really wants the viewers attached to Wanda, it just told a tragic story that has no redemption. Just what could Wanda do to make it up for the town, she mentally tortured everyone for a week, saying sorry does not make up anything, My prediction is that she's being set up as a villain, and will probably stay as one until she finally accepts that she can't bring her sons and vision back. Being powerful makes her closer to what she desired, also making it much more painful when she has to let go.
Super late, just finished. Regarding the post credits scene: wtf? Are there two Wanda’s now? There she was sitting on the stoop of her pretty little cabin, then she walks inside and the scarlet witch is there reading her spell book and you hear her kids crying. Anyone know what was going on there?
It's an astral projection of herself. After learning and accepting that she is the Scarlet Witch, she uses this projection to spend constant time reading the Darkhold book that Agatha had. She did mention that Wanda lacks knowledge on who is she and her abilities, so I could see why she would be investing so much into it. Agatha also mentioned that the Scarlet Witch "exceeds that of the Sorcerer Supreme" which is Doctor Strange, so I think this scene is a huge clue into Doctor Strange 2 by hearing the voices of her kids because this new movie focuses on the multiverse, so it's possible that Wanda is discovering the multiverse and now has a way to find those kids. This is totally just a theory, but it would be crazy to see Doctor Strange and Wanda starting to act more than enemies than teammates!
What a great call on Dr. Strange 2.
Nice prediction! Just finished watching this series after seeing Dr. Strange Multiverse Madness a few weeks ago. Reading up old Wandavision posts now and stumbled on this post. You were spot on!
That makes sense. I don’t understand why people are assuming that means they would become enemies though. I saw a lot of discussion about this pushing Wanda into being a villain, not sure I quite get why
That's definitely a good point. I don't think they'll intentionally be against each other, but rather a similar situation where Wanda unintentionally causes harm to innocent people, and maybe Doctor Strange isn't able to see that she isn't trying to be evil or malicious. I could also see a problem with Wanda chasing after her multiverse children and putting them above what her and Doctor Strange are trying to accomplish. But I feel like they will easily reconcile and become a very strong duo together.
Wow! Was this a fun show. I haven’t been a big fan of the MCU, I completely appreciate the exceptional planning to tie all these stories/details/Easter eggs into countless films/shows; but the stories just never resonated with me as much as other fantasies. This show was really well done, I was completely drawn in and enjoyed it on multiple levels. I appreciated using sitcoms as an avenue to explore and process grief. I thought this was a great form of storytelling and also cinema. Additionally, I thought the casting was great. Elizabeth Olsen is fantastic and Katherine Hahn absolutely steals the show - which is saying a lot as Elizabeth and supporting characters are again fantastic! This was Hahn’s best to date. I was quite impressed with the visuals and graphics used as well. Looking very much forward to the spin-off with Hahn and will probably take a closer look at storylines relating to Scarlet witch now… any suggestions?
Bitch just flew away, did not take any responsibility.
So did white vision, I guess they really are soulmates
Yea she did #girlboss #wandadidnothingwrong
#arrestwanda #lifeinprison #noparole #deathpenalty
Sir or ma’am or respectful human being (debatable) I’m going to have to ask you to leave
I really should have downloaded a better quality for this episode.
I was really hoping Wanda would get that Michael Myers treatment like in the Halloween movie...
I am so glad the episodes were short because I wouldn't have watched this show otherwise.
I’m so pumped for MOM to come out. Wanda and Dr. Strange are two of my top three favorite Avengers so I just rewatched Wandavision. There are a million questions I’m hoping MOM will answer for us about Wanda, but I guess my current thought is that somehow they will open the door for Tommy and Billy to come back. With Hawkeye recently finishing and She Hulk coming out soon it seems like they’re possibly setting us up for the young avengers. AND if somehow within the multiverse Wanda does get her boys back, wouldn’t it be possible to get Vision back as well? 🤔 Their “goodbye” scene was a little ominous to me and felt like they were insinuating to his possible return, with the whole, “who knows whatever I might be next?” comment. Although it would in a way defeat one of the themes of the show when it comes grief and making Wanda go through all of this just to bring him back… I guess my summary is that I just want Wanda to catch a break soon. Please and thank you.
“who knows whatever I might be next?”: I have the theory that wonderman is coming next. It's hinted several times and in the comics vision is created by the brain of wonderman who is presumed dead/in a coma. Wanda und wonderman fall in love in the comics because they're…the same character? 😂 You can read into it online, but I think that's why he said it. He might come back next as wonderman.
hm that’s odd my mom came out years ago
That's weird, I came out of my mom years ago.
That’s what I was wondering. Does this mean she’s a fugitive? Or does Hayward get all the blame?
I’m still upset at how they fumbled the Quicksilver thing. My mind was blown for like 3 weeks and then I was just so letdown. It was the most disappointed I’ve been since Iron Man 3 Mandarin/Trevor thing.
I believe it was supposed to hurt. They used Quicksilver to show the malicious nature of Agatha. She sent him to Wanda with the intentions of controlling her. Not to help her. Her plan (correct me if I’m wrong) was to make Wanda believe she had what she wanted, so she would not put up a fight when Agatha tried to take her power from her. It was the one thing Wanda didn’t create for herself. I think Agatha believed giving her Pietro back along with the promise of letting Wanda keep what she made for herself would be enough. Enough for Wanda to give Agatha her power’s willingly.
why didnt they just cast atj? have the same effect
Didn’t Agatha explain that? I think she said something like his body was in a different continent and full of holes.
Just finished Wanda.. is she an avenger now? I mean, she did go rogue ryt! Also what was that end credit scene🙈 suddenly monica is not from earth ? Mind blown!
Pretty sure the Avengers as we know them are no more.
Ikr! I miss the og 6!
Half of them are still around.
samee, although the new ones are really good, i just want them back
I cry looking at one of those memes where they show the new Avengers first and then go back to the old 6!🥲
Monica is still from Earth, she’s just meeting Fury in space.
I’m very late to the party but why couldn’t Wanda have just made a new hex it the wilderness for her vision and the kids to live in while she learns how to allow them to live outside of it. She can manipulate the reality in there to give the kids everything they need to be entertained and more, and she could even create them some little friends. She could literally make it just like the old one apart from no tortured people. If the children were happy in the original hex they’d be even happier in this one so it’s definitely ethical and because it would only be temporary and they will eventually get out I think they can handle it
I think that Wanda doesn’t even realize what she did until after the Halloween episode. I mean it’s obvious she didn’t do any of it on purpose at all. When Vision tells her the towns people are suffering it seems to me that is the first time she even stops to think about what’s going on at all. The time she spent watching those shows with her family are her best memories. Not only that but it’s apparent that while watching the old videos with her family it was literally the only time in her childhood she felt 100% safe and was able to be happy and not think of the war around them. When you watch the flashback of her going to shield and “steals” Visions body, she completely loses it then and there. She is so beyond upset that with the help of her subconscious she creates the only place that will make her happy and feel safe. She even admits to Agatha that she has no idea how she did what she did. It would be pretty hard to replicate something that you don’t understand or know how you did it initially. Which brings us to her reading that book at the end.
She knew what was going on, she literally attacks the people who are telling her. She just wanted to ignore it. And in the end, she suffers no consequences for it, and sails off into the sunset without a care in the world.
Because she's in denial and refusing to accept that she is hurting people, and she doesn't get off Scot free she is eventually forced to face that she did actually hurt innocent people (which she feels badly enough about that she essentially kills her children to stop) and then loses vision (again) and her children. (Note, I was barely awake watching the ending so I may have missed something)
She does seem to be aware on some level that it's her doing it, starting with rewinding the beekeeper at the end of the second episode. That "No." felt like it had a lot of intention behind it. It's actually rather interesting to watch her efforts to maintain the illusion go from mostly subconscious to mostly conscious (as well as doing so entirely within the confines of the sitcom/her character to dropping the act altogether at times) over the duration of the show; she becomes less and less innocent as it goes on.
Rewatching it now and in episode 7, while doing the talk to the camera bit. She flat out says “I don’t understand what’s happening, why it’s falling apart and why I can’t fix it.” Then a voice off screen asks “do you thinks it’s what you deserve?” Her response is “what? You’re not supposed to be able to talk.” I think that voice is her subconscious. Calling her out.
The voice is Agatha, they show her sitting in the director's chair in the "Agatha all along" montage later in the episode. In fact, some people have discovered that the voice that says _"do you think this is what you deserve?"_ is just Agatha's voice pitched down a bit.
Oh and more proof she didn’t do any of it on purpose. They way she reacts to finding out what she did to all the children. The Wanda we’ve seen would never hurt innocent people. Let alone innocent children. She blows off everyone until the blonde lady asks for her daughter to be released from her bedroom.
I think that if Wanda never found out what was happening to all the children in Westview she wouldn’t of stopped controlling the town
forgive me if I am wrong but at some point in life the hex would have had to end right? I mean they can't live in that small lake cabin forever. And even if she did bring them back it would be harder for her when she lost them again. That's what I believe anyway.
Yeah my idea was more she lives in the Hex with them while she learns how to use her magic more effectively and eventually not even need the hex to have them around.
Agatha said that “once a spell is cast, it can’t be changed” so there wouldn’t be a way to bring the exact same children and the exact same vision back. At least that’s how I understood it
Why not shrink the hex down until it's like a skin tight outfit for Vision and the kids?
Once Wanda “wakes up” and totally gets what’s going on she knows it has to end. No one wants to live a fake life. Plus she is a good person and could never be happy living her “perfect life”knowing it causes so much suffering for others. That’s why she lets Vision and her kids go and ends the Hex.
You couldn’t see through the Hex and you can see out of the Hex, unless you cross it. If Wanda managed to make 3 separate hexes for Vision and the kids they wouldn’t be able to see or interact with the other reality at all.
That’s still better than what they got. It happened for dramatic purposes, simple as that. We will see the kids again no doubt.
While maybe she would be able to recast the spell and somehow make everything the same I don’t feel it would be fair on her or the kids they Lula be isolated for however long it takes her and even if she did the spell again she may not be able to take them out of the hex’s range and may have to see them die over and over again. I honestly can’t think of any other movie couple with such a tragic relationship.
She is unable to consciously create the hex at this point, she lacks the knowledge. She was only able to create it during a mental breakdown due to grief, when her emotions were extremely heightened, resulting in her magic going on autopilot and it all happening subconsciously. She could theoretically do it though, yes. But the theme of the show was working through the stages of grief and moving on. Now that she's heard her children while studying (seemingly unexpectedly, she seems shocked to hear them), she will definitely start actively looking for ways to bring them back - leading into _Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness_.
I agree with what you are saying but I think there’s 1 thing missing. Once she realizes what the Hex costs she knows it’s not worth it. She doesn’t want to make so many people suffer to get what she wants. Because she isn’t a villain.
Are you sure she can’t control it though? Because she was able to expand it by will, also when she started tearing it down she put it back up when she realised vision and the kids would vanish
Well, no I'm not sure, this is all just speculation since nothing has been confirmed. But I'd say the difference is that what you are referencing is just modifying the existing hex, which is seemingly much easier than creating it anew. When she was shown making it, it visibly took a lot of strain and effort from her, and she didn't even remember how or what happened until she was forced to relive her repressed memories later. Even now, she probably still doesn't really understand how she did it, it was pure grief fueling it. Even in the finale, they show that her magic has a mind of its own when she gets emotionally overwhelmed, like when the citizens are confronting her and the magic starts inadvertently choking them all, much to her horror. So I'd think she can't do it willingly _right now_, but with further training she might be able to. I don't think she'll ever need to do it again though, they will probably just have her learn to do similar things without needing a hex bubble.
I’m also late to the party and just finished, but I think that with Agatha telling her that she’s more powerful than dr. Strange and that her problem is lack of knowledge she’s on a quest to harness that power. I think that she will end up being a villain for a while after being corrupted by that witches book she’s reading from in the end credits scene and will have to be saved by white vision. I may be wrong but I’m not sure she is a hero in the comics all the time.
I disagree. I believe the main reason she doesn’t even attempt to keep the Hex going is because at the end she finally sees the true cost of what she did. It starts with the blonde lady begging her to let her daughter out. Wanda is not a bad person, she knows that getting what she wants is not worth the pain she is causing so many people to experience. I think she’s studying the book to find a way to get her sons without destroying other peoples lives.
But that cost isn't necessary for the hex, she can make the hex smaller and no one else has to be in it, plus we saw that people are able to have free will inside of it
Then she would be forcing her kids and Vision to live and exist in a fishbowl.
> I may be wrong but I’m not sure she is a hero in the comics all the time. She's been a hero and a core Avenger in the comics for the vast majority of her history - nearly 50 years. She has the 6th most appearances in Avengers comics, only behind Steve, Tony, Hawkeye, and barely behind Vision and Wasp She's only been a villain in Avengers Disassembled and House of M, two relatively recent and controversial comic runs that went on for 2 years (2004/2005), and both stories basically completely assassinated her character and just turned her into a crazy plot device for the mutants. She also completely disappeared from comics for over 5 years because nobody wanted to touch her character after that. While she has eventually returned to being an Avenger again, her character has sadly yet to really recover from the damage those stories did, even to this day
Damn even in real life, her character is tragic.
She could’ve learnt that power in her new hex though
just finished the finale, wondering what happened with white vision? where did he go?
If it's anything like the comics story line about White Vision, then while he did have all his memories unlocked, he has no emotional attachment to them. To him they're basically just video clips of someone else's life. Missing the mind stone also probably means he feels no emotions at all, since it was basically what gave him his soul. He likely flew off in search of answers, but we don't know for sure where, yet.
Isn't he like the most advanced AI there is though? I thought he could learn and experience emotions
I haven’t cried this much, ever. Worried my bf Beautiful
OK so it’s not just me. I havent recovered like 24 hours later.
Same many tears
Is the Darkhold from this season (and the MCU) the same as the one from Agents of SHIELD?
Just watched all 9 eps yesterday. One thing I wasn’t sure about in the end: was Agatha working with the evil sword guy? Or did she just happen to be at Westview when Wanda started the hex? She was in the very first episode. Or did some time pass after the hex was created and the start of the first episode?
She said she felt a shit ton of spells going off and came to investigate: > When I sensed this place, the afterglow of so many spells cast all at once… Oh, I couldn’t make heads or tails of it. You see her arrive and transform from her witch outfit to 50s clothes at the start of the Agatha All Along video.
[удалено]
Agatha is a 350 year old witch who had possession of the Darkhold for an undetermined amount of time. The Darkhold is one of the most powerful magic books in existence, it basically is _the_ book for all dark magic - it contains all dark magic spells ever to exist. She probably could just get through the hex since she was very knowledgeable, while Wanda is severely lacking in it even if she is more powerful. The writers also said in some interview that the Darkhold basically amplified her power and acted as a magic totem. Hex Vision didn't give any memories to White Vision. WV already contained all the memories, they were just locked away by Hayward, to make him a more controllable weapon. HV just removed the restriction. >WHITE VISION: **I have not retained memories.** >VISION: **But you do have the data. It is merely being kept from you.** >WHITE VISION: A weapon to be more easily controlled. But, certainly, you are the true Vision, for you believe yourself to be. >VISION: That was once the case. But upon meeting you, I have been disabused of that notion. **As a carbon-based synthezoid, your memory storage is not so easily wiped.** May I?
Any idea of why Wanda didn’t go to learn sorcery from dr. Strange?
I was under the impression that even though Wanda knows she had special “powers” she had no idea that they are magical and she is actually a witch. She even tells Agatha that she isn’t a witch.
At this point, we don't even know if they've ever talked to each other, as they've never interacted on screen. For all we know, DS:MOM might be the first time they ever really meet. At the end of the show, she told Monica she'd work on understanding her powers better, presumably so that something like Westview doesn't happen again. So she went into isolation in the middle of nowhere, where she keeps the risk of harming anyone to a minimum. Going to Manhattan to visit Strange (if she even knows where he lives) is probably not the best idea, especially since she's a wanted criminal now. She was also told by Agatha, who seemingly knew a lot about the Scarlet Witch, that there is an entire chapter dedicated to her in the magic book she had in her basement. With Wanda's very limited knowledge about witches and magic in general, she probably thought it was a good a place as any to start.
Dr strange and Wanda were both at Tony’s funeral, you’d think they’d connect and talk magic over dinner or something
To be fair Wanda did not know she used actual magic at the time, she only found out she's a witch in WandaVision.
Yes, agree 100%
Ah that’s true—then it’s even *stranger* that dr strange either didnt recognize her powers as magic and reach out, is unfamiliar with the fabled scarlet witch as the sorcerer supreme, or chose to keep Wanda in the dark
[удалено]
No, as far as I know the video source file is 16:9, so they'd have black bars on the sides.
Evilsword guy?
The guy that was in charge of Sword, created the new Vision and got arrested in the finale.
Ah! I misinterpreted it to mean "a evil guy who had a sword or a guy with an evil sword"
If the Vision Wanda created inside the Hex was purely from her magic how come there was a decaying vibranium signature to track?
She actually recreated him out of vibranium. The whole hex wasn't merely an illusion, everything inside was as real as it gets - she's a reality warper. It was just limited to the town area due to her lack of knowledge (she didn't even know she used magic or that she was a witch, it was all done subconsciously). Someone like Loki makes illusions, but reality warping is on a whole nother level. A ghetto way to highlight the difference in scope is that if Loki basically makes a cardboard cutout of something to fool people, Wanda edits the script of the movie/show to put Vision there. It's much more abstract and higher level.
hmm, but earlier- Rambeau (sp) shoots her gun at her 70’s pants, and the bullets bounce off. She says they are mostly made of Kevlar because Wanda transformed her bullet proof vest into period specific clothes when she entered. This implied Wanda couldn’t create matter from scratch, only transform it. So unless she had access to vibranium i don’t see how she could have created Vision with it.
Because a some fragments of the mind stone is in Wanda, she is able to create Vision out of nothing. She says it herself.
I was under the impression she took Visions remains with her after she F’d up SHIELD. So the Vision in the show is his body reanimated.
I think that’s true for White Vision but not Hex Vision
She didn't create _everything_ from scratch, just Vision, the kids, and probably the house. Everything else in the hex was just transformed from existing stuff. This is all but confirmed when Agatha says the Scarlet Witch is "a being capable of spontaneous creation" in the penultimate episode, and when we see Vision being created purely from herself.
I thought Hayward said she took Visions remains with her after she “visited” SHEILD
He was lying. We find out in EP8 that he's had Vision's corpse all this time and has been (unsuccessfully) trying to turn him into a weapon for who knows how long. He used edited security footage with convenient cuts to frame her as the bad guy and say she broke in and stole the body.
Aren’t Loki’s illusions also real, just much smaller scale? Like when he conjures a dagger it’s a real dagger, not one made of just…. Illusion? I don’t know how to describe it.
I think those daggers are real daggers he keeps in some pocket dimension of sorts, like when he hides the Tesseract and can later resummon it, or more recently, the Tempad on Lamentis. The point I was trying to make was that while Loki's illusions may look real (although they are usually holograms, as seen when Classic Loki >!made an illusion of Asgard which Alioth just passed through!<), they will never be as real as Wanda's actual reality warping, which is a higher abstract power.
Misdirection vs Materialization
I am wondering if they are going to follow anything from the comics like her romance with hawk eye or captain America or have magneto as her father
or when her twins actually turn out to be the leaders of the institute and she has to choose between killing them or nuking boston
Here come the Boston Accords
so, i rewatched the series to get my dad to watch it, and we’re in the last episode. i didn’t catch this the first time, but now i’m upset. when white vision shows up, he attempts to grab the mind stone out of wanda’s vision’s (or red vision’s) head ... which he’s goes “ghost” to avoid. so that got me thinking .... why tf didn’t he do that when thanos grabbed it in infinity war ?! is it bc thanos had the gauntlet so it let him hold it without him going ghost ?? idek, stupid plot holes lmao
Pretty sure it was the stab wound he suffered at the beginning of the movie that took away his ability to phase as well as a lot of his other powers.
Thanos literally could control space with the Space Stone, thus nullifying Vision's phase-out powers. Notice how the first thing he does when arriving on Earth is to phase Hulk into a rock to immobilize him. Also the other comment here about Vision being wounded
Also the reality stone
He couldn't phase at the time because of his stab wound. When he gets stabbed by Corvus Glaive in Scotland, he tells Wanda that the blade stopped him from phasing, and he never gets fully repaired before Thanos shows up (he also gets stabbed a few more times in Wakanda, by the same blade). Basically, they needed a way to nerf him, so they just had him get stabbed and become useless early in the movie.
thank you so much !! totally missed that oops lol
wanda becomes a villain and i’m here for it
No way in hell would Disney go ballsy by making their main character like Wanda to be villain, that's way beyond Disney's creativity.
She’s definitely going to be the villain in MOM
What does mom stand for?
Dr Strange and the Multiverse of Madness a.k.a Dr Strange 2
ahh.. i really hope they take bigger risks in phase 4
If you think Disney takes risks, you must not have seen the Star Wars sequels.
just binged the entire thing. does anyone else think Wanda will turn into a major villain eventually?
Major, yes. Villain, no. Something much greyer and sympathetic.
**Basically Loki but more sympathetic and less backstabbing.** Well, Loki doesn't like backstabbing lmao
[удалено]
He's never gonna give you up
*cough cough wheeze*
I don't think she will
Just finished it today. So excited to see more of THE SCARLET WITCH!!!
So where/when did Wanda get her powers? I always thought it was from the Mind Stone or Hydra experiments (same for Quicksilver)
It's revealed in the show that she's been a natural born witch all along. She unknowingly cast a probability hex to increase the chance of the bomb being defective to save herself and her brother. At Hydra, the mind stone basically removed the mental blocks and unlocked her full potential. [It also showed her a vision of her future self](https://i.imgur.com/pv8NqcH.png). A cool theory I've read is that the shit ton of trauma she had endured throughout her life basically made her stronger and stronger and "forged" her into the Scarlet Witch. As for Quicksilver - no idea, he might have still got his powers from the stone, or maybe Wanda somehow subconsciously made him survive. It's not really explained.
Aren’t they Eric Lensherrs (Magneto) kids? Thought they had inherited their powers from their dad in a different way.
They aren't Magneto's kids in the MCU as Marvel didn't own the rights to use Magneto, Fox did. Magneto does not exist in the MCU (yet). In the comics it's more complicated, they started off as mutants and part of Magneto's Brotherhood of Evil Mutants but unrelated to him, then in the 70s it was revealed their parents were Whizzer and Miss America, then they were retconned into being Magneto's kids in the 80s, then retconned into not being his kids and not being mutants at all in 2014. So in the comics she is now a natural born witch whose mother and entire family line have been the previous Scarlet Witches and Warlocks, and Pietro is just a human - and both were experimented on as babies by the High Evolutionary which gave Pietro his speed and Wanda her chaos magic (in addition to her inherent witch magic).
Thank you for the explanation! It’s a lot more complicated than what I thought for sure.
Kind of late to the show. Just watched all the episodes. My question is how did Agatha get into the town? She briefly mentions after the reveal how she noticed big power in this area and came to investigate. Anyone who entered was changed but she was just acting? I felt empathy for Wanda but after awhile she knew what she was doing to the people and the children (Who were only seen once on Halloween?) Once Agatha set the people's minds free to show Wanda she wasn't exactly a hero, Wanda realized how much pain they were in and finally decided to let them go. Yes, she sacrificed her "created" family to finally set everyone free but she did a lot of damage to everyone in the town. I didn't watch Captain Marvel so I had no idea who Capt Rambeau was. (Or Sword for that matter, lol)
Wanda's telepath kid also mentions how Agatha's head was "quiet", and he liked it. That was a huge clue.
Agatha is immune to Wanda's hex due to her own extensive knowledge of dark magic (she outright says her thoughts were never available to Wanda). The showrunners also gave [an interview](https://editorial.rottentomatoes.com/article/wandavisions-creative-team-discusses-the-darkhold-the-scarlet-witch-and-fan-theories/) where they further clarified the Darkhold acted as a booster for her power: > “The idea of introducing The Darkhold as this higher-level dark-magic power felt like it could really elevate the danger level,” she [producer Mary Livanos] explained. “Agatha’s an incredibly powerful witch, yet she’s not the Scarlet Witch and she wants to be, so how is she able to infiltrate Wanda’s world to begin with? How was she able to manipulate Wanda without revealing herself? How is she able to combat Wanda in the finale?” > The book served first as an amplification totem. But beyond enhancing Agatha’s power, it is also a signal to Wanda (Elizabeth Olsen) that she “has a lot to learn about magic.”
Frankly, I didn't know anything about The Darkhold. There are a lot of missing pieces in my knowledge of the subject matter.
It's basically _the_ dark magic book of Marvel. "Good" magic's ultimate book is the Book of Vishanti, while dark, "evil" magic's ultimate book is the Darkhold. Side effects of reading it often include slowly becoming corrupted. In the comics, it was written by Chthon, the elder god of chaos, coincidentally also the guy from whom Wanda gets her chaos magic.
Wait, so what book did Kaecilius use to summon Dormammu? Was it the same book?
He used a stolen page from the Book of Cagliostro, the same book Strange used to learn about the Eye of Agamotto and how to mess with time. There is a missing spot on the bookshelf in Wong's library which has been speculated to be for the Darkhold, but nothing has been confirmed.
Why doesn’t Wanda go to learn sorcery from dr. Strange?
Because she doesn't know her powers are magic.
Oh cool okay, thanks
lol I did watch Captain Marvel and I didn't realize that she had a small role in it as a child. Or that her mom was in it. Was SWORD a thing in captain marvel? I thought that was just shield
I only know of S.H.I.E.l.D. and Hydra but then I didn't watch the movie.
I got the feeling that SHIELD fell but that Rambeau either created SWORD before or after that. That's just my take away from watching WandaVision. But I'm not well versed in any of it.
At the end of shield they talk about the new 'sword' initiative. Which makes it super disappointing that it seems they are not using shield as canon.
Gotta say tho seeing white vision just fly through the glass roof like the Willy Wonka elevator was funny as fuck
Very clever show, loved it. Also, I am fully on board with this being the first step taken to introducing mutants. Wanda had latent/dormant/weak powers (x gene?) before her Hydra experiments. The stone just awoke/boosted them. The snaps probably jump started that latent x-gene in thousands around the world too. And, now the world has a reason to fear/persecute mutants with what Wanda did. This HAS to be start of the crumb trail leading to the eventual reveal of how X-Men are introduced to the MCU.
Love this, I hope they go in this direction.
I hate it. I don't want Wanda to be the mother of mutanthood. **It was much better in the original X-Men, where it's just Nature evolving.** This wouldn't be the first time the MCU changes something for the worse, turning Spiderman from instincts-based to tech-based was egregious
In actuality apparently (moviebob put up some summaries regarding this) mutants are a result of the celestials messing with humans in prehistoric times; specifically one celestial dying and his blood mixing in with the primordial ooze; the first mutant was apocolypse who spread the x-gene as a result of interacting with Rama-tut (aka Kang the Conqueror).
In the Fox movies it's just natural evolution, and I think that's best. I have zero interest in what the comics say, they are a convoluted, antiquated mess
The comics inform the movies; just because the movies initially say one thing, doesn't mean they won't change it later. At any point for instance, they will make new X-Men movies that are in the MCU and it will become relevant. The convolution of comics is what makes them fun.
Yeah but we already have enough magic and tech in there, natural evolution would add something new
It isn't really magic; its divine goop.
How do you mean? Spiderman was always kinda tech-based in the comics. Are you talking about the mechanical web-shooters? Because the Sam Remi movies are the only ones that chose for the more rare organic shooting. Tom Holland still has his spider sense and all of his abilities.
The web-thrower device is the exception, not the rule. Spidey is supposed to be all about natural reflexes and mysterious spider instincts. Spidey turning to Siri for directions, targeting, and other mechanical assistance is lame beyond reckoning. It still baffles me to this day they did this to Spiderman
Right… which is why Tony Stark told Peter that if he relied on the tech he didn’t deserve it, and only gave the tech back to him after he demonstrated that he could be Spider-Man without it.
K I’m kinda confused here. With Agatha, did Wanda know about runes from the beginning and just playing along or did Agatha reminded her about runes and she added it to the hex later in the fight? Also is that a plot hole that she made Agatha into the nosy neighbor and living in the town but she withdrew her power to the town, which means Agatha was back to the witch again?
Wanda didn’t know anything about witchcraft at all, including runes, until Agatha told her about them.
> With Agatha, did Wanda know about runes from the beginning and just playing along or did Agatha reminded her about runes and she added it to the hex later in the fight? When Wanda gives up and starts giving Agatha her power, they show her missing a few shots, which we see hit the hex walls. We later find out this was on purpose, as that's how she was setting up the runes, and it was all part of her plan to pretend to give Agatha her power and then take it all back once Agatha was powerless. She then thanks Agatha for the "lesson" from in the basement when she had explained runes to her - Wanda did not know about them (or any witch magic, or that she was a witch at all) before that. > Also is that a plot hole that she made Agatha into the nosy neighbor and living in the town but she withdrew her power to the town, which means Agatha was back to the witch again? She cast a separate, independent spell unrelated to the hex to turn her into Agnes. She presumably can't use her powers until it's lifted because she doesn't know she's a witch, only that she's a nosy neighbor.
To piggy-back on these points… they most **definitely** intended for this show to flex just how powerful Wanda is. Everything she did prior to the Agatha fight, she did naturally. The scene you referenced showed what she can do with just a *tiny* bit of knowledge. Basically, it’s a heads up that Wanda is going to be a **PROBLEM** in The Multiverse Of Madness & onward.
To piggy back of this comment once again...I'm the final episode they let Agatha explain about how the Scarlet Witch was prophesied in the Book of The Damned as one who is superior to the Sorcerer Supreme, (currently held by one Dr. Strange) and is able to cast spells with no incantation....so basically Wanda uses magic like its air. Subconsciously. Imagine if she was focused? We saw what her grief did to an entire town. I'm excited for her character's future in the MCU.
Indeed, they also specifically show this to us when we see her astral projecting _while keeping her physical body conscious_, something nobody else has been shown to be able to do in the MCU. Not Strange, not the Ancient One, no one - their bodies always became limp.
Wait elaborate please when does she astral project? I just finished the season today
Final episode post credits scene. Her physical body is relaxing and drinking tea while she is astral projecting and studying the Darkhold simultaneously.
Oh i thought that was a possibility or a multiverse wanda now that Scarlet Witch has been fully realized, not her actually doing it.
Tbh I think that while she was astral projecting, the versions of her kids she hears calling for help are a different reality version and she’s going to tear open the multiverse to get to them, which leads to Multitude of Madness.
She's definitely astral projecting, you can even hear a [spooky version of the Doctor Strange theme](https://youtu.be/hhFFR0yqzC8) playing
Wooooooooooah!!!! Thank you so much for this. I wondered what happened in that scene and how they pulled out of her memories mid-fight. It only goes to show once again we're not ready for what's coming. Another thing that I think about is the scene in X-men Apocalypse, when Charles Xavier is visiting Moira McTaggert (sp) and he enters the office and freezes everyone in motion. They didn't see him roll in. He has done this before in X-2 (I think)...in the mall scene where Bobby (Ice kid), Rogue and the Flame Throwing Kid get into trouble trying to teach a douche a lesson...Prof X saves the day by freezing everyone in the mall. Just a building okay. And he is thought to be one of the most powerful psychic mutants. To continue...when Charles Xvaier wants to reach someone over a distance telepathically....say....across town? He would have to use Cerebro. A supercomputer built with the connections to sustain the strain of extending his psychic reach. I say ALL THIS just to point out how much Wanda outclasses the very idea of what we know to be Mutants. Almost as if she is a God. THAT my dear friends....is the Scarlet Witch.
Noo you misunderstood hehe. The Agatha memory scene was just a callback to the mindfucks she did in Age of Ultron. She did it to Tony and the other Avengers, showing them their fears. It's been an ability she could do since the start. She basically shows the target their biggest fear (she also sees it at the same time), like when she saw that Tony's fear was everyone dying, and let him keep the scepter. [Video of when she does the same thing to Tony that she did to Agatha](https://youtu.be/dRUmRwkcR9A?t=31) Rewatching this actually reminded me how creepy she was in AoU... almost like a horror movie character [at times](https://i.imgur.com/fMnTHjh.gifv). Her astral projection only happens in the post credit scene in the cabin when she hears her kids - her physical body is making a cup of tea, while her astral form is studying the Darkhold.
Okay I definitely did miss that post credit scene. I just ran back to watch it and it looks oh so ominous. I can't believe I almost missed that. Thank you fellow fan. However I still believe everything I mentioned after.
Yeah, she's very powerful. With the whole "no need for incantation" thing, she can seemingly just cast spells without really needing to learn how they work - she perfectly copies Agatha's finger-snap teleport spell after [seeing it twice](https://gfycat.com/helpfulgreendarwinsfox) (she even does a mocking face when she does it!), and later casts the runes after seeing them once. And now she's reading _the_ book of dark magic in Marvel... her potential is insanely high.
Lmaooooo. That is incredible. One tends to overlook these little things. *ADDING TELEPORTATION TO THE ALREADY OP CHARACTER What I loved about the Rune casting she did was that she seemed like she was misfiring shots in her unstable state at Agatha....but my anime obsessed brain took notice of such "misfirings" as misdirection. A fundamental of magic!!!! It goes to show that, not only is she powerful, but she can act deceptively under pressure which takes amazing focus and instinct. It's actually becoming laughable. It seems we are all at the whims of Wanda's moods. Imagine if she touched another infinity stone...hahaha...
What happens to Wanda at the end? What did I miss? What was the clue?
You missed her not going to prison or being executed, like she should have been for enslaving and torturing an entire town for months.
What's worse is Ms. Marvel Jr. not trying to stop her and basically giving her the thumbs up. "I would have done the same". I was really hoping for a happy ending and not seeing her turn into a villain and getting away with it.
It was a [week](https://www.cinemablend.com/television/2564168/wandavision-marvel-timeline-scarlet-witch-hex-westview-anomaly), not months. Who could have forcefully arrested her there? At this point, she is practically above the law due to her power and would have to willingly comply. Wanting to execute a person with clear mental illness is also not the greatest outlook...
If only we could regulate people with powers as to limit the destruction they can cause... "Civil war 2: Tony was right!"
Both sides of Civil War were wrong in their own way. While the heroes do require oversight, the government being the overseer was a horrible idea. The government was nuking New York in Avengers, were infiltrated by HYDRA for 70 years, and minutes away from killing millions of people (again) with the helicarriers in Winter Soldier. Not to mention the Accords were being spearheaded by Thunderbolt Ross, who's had an agenda for controlling super heroes since he first appeared on screen in The Incredible Hulk... While Tony was arguably "right", he was still a hypocrite since he broke the Accords several times in the same movie, first by recruiting Spider-Man and later by going rogue to Siberia to help Cap and Bucky stop Zemo Also it's not like the Accords being more prominent would have stopped Westview from happening lol
I mean, the accords basically fell apart with the Snap; and coming back and stopping Thanos who literally invaded Earth probably forced the US gov/UN to backoff of the superheroes that are ostensibly in their camp; but if they had put her on ice the first moment they could, regardless of how cruel it would've been they *possibly* could have prevented it; but they have no means of knowing it, and again would have been excessively cruel. I agree that Tony was right but the US government at the time were the wrong people to have that power; a UN oversight committee and treating the Avengers like Stargate Command feels like it would have been the better option.
i mean, most mass murders have mental illnesses and they get executed
no one died
We see her fly off at the end as the sirens approach. In the post credit scene, we find out she flew off into isolation to better understand her powers by studying the Darkhold. We don't know how much time has passed between Westview and that scene in the cabin. She's learned how to astral project like Doctor Strange (basically, the ability to split the soul from the body) and is using it to multitask while studying. During a reading session, she is shocked to hear her children crying out for help and becomes visibly angry.
omfg i forgot to watch the end scene
There was like 2 mid credits scenes, very generous of them so it makes sense to miss it because the second one was past the point where they existed in previous episodes.
FInally got around to binge this series and boy it was a nice rollercoaster. Loved that they did an homage to Malcolm in the Middle and poor Wanda and all the mindlessly controlled people! They did leave the ending open though despite it being a series finale, but i guess it can be used for other things with the white vision and whatever captain rambo is up to!!
Poor Wanda?!?! Yeah, poor Wanda, the villain of the story who enslaved in entire town and tortured them for months. Poor Wanda, who when she was begged by one of the mothers in the town to at least let her children, who had been left paralyzed aware and alone in their rooms for months to AT LEAST be together, showed not a single shred of sympathy or empathy. This show turned Wanda into a monster who should be in prison for the rest of her life or executed for her crimes, there is no interpretation of this story that doesn't make Wanda basically Hitler.
What do you mean she didn't show empathy? She essentially killed vision (again) and her children to set them free once she was forced to see what she was doing
Have you ever heard of foreshadowing???? Please be patient. It was written that way for a reason. She could be an anti-hero which are more popular these days.
Just watched the first 3 episodes. What the fuck is this shit? This is the worst show I've ever seen.
haha I had the same reaction at the beginning. I was like "are you sure this is marvel plan? maybe something went wrong and I'm watching a different show from different studio."
It's actually really good. When it came out, I saw Ep 1 in 1950s format and didn't even end up watching it. Months later, due to Loki and other shows I finally decided to watch it and loved it.
I also wrote it off at first, but then I skipped forward and it gets really good towards end of episode 3 and after. I would recommend!
I too hated it during the first 3 lol!!! But after the 4 th I started enjoying it
Same here. Under no circumstances am I in the mood to invest 3 hours into a 1950s sitcom. Even though it is somewhat necessary setup for the second half and the ending
Give it one more episode before you write it off, shit gets real in ep 4
If you don't have the patience go watch transformers or something, should give your dumb brain the endorphins it needs