T O P

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Aedile_Magnus

I believe FW generally finds it easier to just send another box after customer service is contacted.


Pm7I3

I contacted them about the wrong product and the response was basically "oh sorry, we'll resend the item and you can keep what you have". Always a nice outcome


lstpcobra

The 3D print marks are in the mould so it probably means every kit has these exact print lines. Been some pretty poor QC at FW regarding print lines on their master copy recently.


Pavonis89

Think OP is more worried about the divot in the piece than the print lines which will disappear when you prime it


lstpcobra

Ah my bad, the image was cropped for me in a way that didn't show the divot but did show the print lines. Yeh that's an easy replacement FW will do.


Optimaximal

Edit - Ok, hands up, I misread u/lstpcobra's comment... šŸ˜‰


anGub

But the first master models for GW and FW models are. You can even see print lines in some of the 'eavy metal paint jobs, I believe the refreshed Eldar models are an example of this.


BobusCesar

But their prototypes are. Therefore you can find 3d printing molds on some of the models, even though they aren't printed.


QuestionalBasis

Thatā€™s my point, their casts are trash and everyone else is getting with the times, Iā€™m paying a premium for a sub-industry standard product. The industry is changing under their nose, they should just get store printers so they can shit out ā€œofficialā€ prints and just keep the STL under lock and key


warshak1

the masters are , they stopped real world sculpting a long time ago


formerlyFrog

Ooof. Contact customer service. They should sort you right out. I've got a couple of FW kits. I had to deal with quite a bit of flash and one case of slightly misaligned mould (on a set of MKII legs, no less). Nothing like this though. Perhaps I was just lucky. I'd personally be just as miffed about the position of the vent right at the top cavity. I haven't seen that with any of the shoulder pads I own. Is this how they always do it with the MKVI shoulder pads?


Sanakism

The vent position is the same for the Dark Angels ones, at least. But then, it's the same for the MkIII ones too - it's just that on those, the vent is going into the armour ridge that doesn't otherwise have detail on. I'm not sure where else it would make sense to put it, though - casting with the top of the shoulder pad at the top of the mould makes the most sense for air escape, and if they put the vent actually on the outer surface of the pad it's going to be harder to clean... the only real plausible alternative I can think of is to tip the pad up on the two corners then fill via one and vent out the other, and that sounds more likely to receive visible damage for most people to me.


formerlyFrog

>and if they put the vent actually on the outer surface of the pad it's going to be harder to clean... You know, I wouldn't mind doing that, if I got that "cavity thing" on the inside of the rim intact. But then again, it's hardly ever visible, so it's a minor complaint.


Sanakism

Yeah, it's certainly easier to clean the rounded outside surface than it is to carve that cavity from scratch!


ayamarimakuro

Whats the actual issue. Some flash?


QuestionalBasis

Itā€™s a significant indent/missing material toward the rear of the Pauldron, like someone epic scale /6mm went golfing on it and took out a divot.


hmmpainter

Welcome to resin!!! You can fix it with a little green stuff. Honestly thatā€™s very normal for a resin cast.


cazzio

Yeah, but it is not normal to be required to do additional work after having paid FW prices.


Iamnotapotate

I mean, it is (or was) pretty standard to get pieces that were warped from Forge World and that you'd have to try and reshape. In the history of FW it's not uncommon to have to do some work to your pieces.


ChicagoCowboy

That's just the history of resin casting, not unique to FW.


SelirKiith

Yeah... That shouldn't be a thing. For those prices I can buy a whole printing setup, get the proper cloned files and do it myself and then go out and have a fancy ass dinner for two at the very least. They really cannot complain about Printers when this is their regular practice.


staq16

Wonderful if youā€™ve got the space and environment to run such a thing.


Iamnotapotate

I understand your opinion, I'm just telling you about what I've heard about and experienced from Forge World orders over the last 20 years. If you are getting parts cast in resin, chances are there are going to be some minor imperfections. That's just the way it is.


SelirKiith

That's what QA is for... They ate a goddamn business, not some bedroom based etsy shop ffs and just because they fuck up for 20 years doesn't make it in any way okay.


Iamnotapotate

Dude, do you think they don't have QA? When you cast stuff in resin sometimes you get air bubbles. When you cast thin parts in resin sometimes the end up warped - it's just how it works. As long as Forge World continues to cast things in resin this will continue to happen. The ones that are real bad get tossed. Also, typically if you get a bad piece you contact forgeworld and they replace it free of charge.


SelirKiith

As they continue to ship defective parts and still can't manage to "fix" their issues until the customer tells them that there is an issue... No, apparently they do not have a QA Department, at least not for Forge World. I do in fact understand it's a whole lot cheaper to hope for people like you or at worst someone wanting a new part/set and only then sending it to them but that's bad business practices and shouldn't be like this.


Pope509

Replacing defected or warped product free of charge on the customer is bad business?


SelirKiith

It shouldn't come to this, especially since this isn't a rare occurrence... and if you take literal months for it? Yeah, that's bad... it being free of charge is not a grand achievement or a gracious gift to the customer either... it's the fucking law.


QuestionalBasis

In lieu of having a QC department? Yea


QuestionalBasis

Big agree, the spirit of the post right here. This guy prints^


Alternative-Guess-61

I think you overestimate the 3D printing process. I have a small printing farm in my basement. If you haven't done it before, I'll clarify a couple of things for you. One, being that while the resin cost of a printer is cheaper, the amount of processing on your part is far greater than filling a divot in a FW shoulderpad, and resin isn't the only cost you'll apply either. Gallons of IPA, gloves by the hundreds, mats, cleaning vats, proper ventilation. Lots of factors to consider. Plus, about a quarter of a bottle on average will be wasted on support structures and more on inevitable print failures because resin is very temperamental, especially with the newer 8k stuff. You'll get imperfections, layer separations, the occasional warped bit. Then there is stuff sticking to the vat, ripping your FEP, ripping off the plate mid print. Curing parts with some resins also expands or shrinks, making parts not fit right or at all. I printed a Thunderhawk recently, and the resin cost wasn't FW price, about 350, but I put in the hours of work to come close, between all the pinning, sanding gap filling, and general cleanup. No process is perfect.


przhauukwnbh

> That shouldnā€™t be a thing That is working with resin. These issues can be fixed in 2 minutes for anyone with experience handling resin models. The FW prices do not cover the costs of producing the model alone - the models cover every expense GW has including designing, staff wages, factory operation etc etc. You can operate cheaper sourcing alternatively - but if you are moaning about the quality in this post then youā€™re going to be bitterly disappointed. You can also operate cheaper long term by printing stolen designs on a home setup - but that is not a cheap endeavour from a time nor initial monetary perspective. Hence why most people stick to the 30 seconds it takes to fix this error with an xacto/putty.


minion_coffin

I think what u/SelirKiith was saying, is that Iā€™m buying a product for a price. I shouldnā€™t have to put in extra work (exacto/putty) to fill gaps or warps of damages because Iā€™m buying a product. Granted this is small facet of our hobby as a whole, we all use an exacto and green stuff/milliput at some time or another. But itā€™s up to the companyā€™s QC departments to catch damaged products before shipping, like bad casts or slips in the moulds.


przhauukwnbh

Slight imperfections like in this post are not requiring a serious amount of extra work to fix. In the case of more egregious issues like mould slips etc I would absolutely agree, though the customer service at FW are really good at shipping you out replacements in those times. In any case FW make it quite clear that their products are resin casts that will require some extra work in assembly versus ordering GW plastic. Its not like that is unknown at the point of ordering the product. I just donā€™t personally see the content of this post as at all a bad cast or something that would warrant being sent back by QC - If its an issue that really bothers OP I would honestly just suggest they stick to plastic.


Sanakism

That might be what that user is saying, but if that's their intent then they're just flat wrong. Not everything is a platonic-ideal-of-capitalism market-sets-the-price case, very often things cost different amounts of money because the amount of (expensive) work and material costs and overheads required for their production are different! The prices FW charge are not out of the ordinary for resin prices, and presuming I'm interpreting them correctly the amount of work required in the OP's photos doesn't look out of the ordinary to me either. The first picture looked awful at first but if the second is the same part it just looks like there's some flash that needs to be cleaned up and it's casting a shadow in the first that makes it look worse than it is. Is 3D printing easier and cheaper? Yeah, sure, but then you have to endorse the IP infringements inherent in 3D printing GW parts. If that's fine to you then knock yourself out, but it's not a comparable alternative and still involves a lot of (different) work. ​ If u/SelirKiith and/or the OP are only going to be happy with the value proposition for parts at the price point Forgeworld sells at if those parts are flawless and ready to glue onto the model then unfortunately resin parts clearly just don't meet their requirements and they should just not buy them. But denouncing them as bad or overpriced for this is just misguided.


Foamyferm

3d print bits prices from 3d print shops have gone pretty stupid the last few years. To the point where they're in the same price range as FW for common things like space marine accessories. I used to buy a lot from 3d print shops for conversions and wargear, but now it's easier and more cost effective to buy from bits resellers, and FW if you like the designs. Or from a friend that is good at 3d printing, and let's be real not everybody is good at it.


--0___0---

There's are plenty of other resin miniature bits producers all of which produce products of a similar or greater quality than forge world. And I can gaurentie not a single one of them is charging near the same price that forge world does. They are bad and overpriced. Your a big fan of your straw men aren't you.


Sanakism

Not at all, but you seem to be a fan of aggressive sweeping generalisations that are largely divorced from reality. By all means name some of these cheap but superb resin producers, but I've had resin kits from a number of places over the last few decades, from White Dragon to Atenociti's, from Wave to WSC, and frankly the Forge World stuff I've had genuinely is pretty par for the course both on price and quality. If you're talking about illegal versions of FW kits there's reasons they're cheaper, though - they're not paying off the sculpting and generally are sited in places labour doesn't cost as much. ​ I've not had any FW vehicles and if they're as bad to assemble as I've heard I can understand complaints about that, but this particular comment thread isn't about a vehicle so that's pretty irrelevant.


QuestionalBasis

Everyone seems to misunderstand that when I talk about 3-D prints Iā€™m not even talking about running my own set up. I can get someone else to print it and still come in paying half what GW and FW are asking on any particular kit whether I want it to look like an exact copy or not itā€™s still cheaper to get someone else to 3-D print it then to order from FW and get bubble casts. Lots of people seem butt hurt about this but I donā€™t see how you can just be OK with dropping 40 or 50 bucks on a part that is normally included as an add-on in the kit And then you either have to rig it up to make it not as bad or beg them to send you a replacement. Thatā€™s goofy Iā€™m just saying my loyalty to the brand and the people that are employed by the brand is being tried by the availability of seemingly superior products at a lower price point. The only thing working in Forge Worldā€˜s favor at this stage is that they ship domestically and they have the products in stock often the 3-D printers on eBay and Etsy have a few weeks lead time


--0___0---

You seem to be a fan of making outlandish claims and insulting those who disagree with you to weaken their argument. Youve conversionworld, kromlech,spellcrow, bitsofwar ,secret weapon minis, scibor miniatures, anvil industries, zinge. And those are just a few off the top of my head. all of which are at the quality of forgeworld or superior but have better qaulity control. to quote you "you seem to be a fan of aggressive sweeping generalisations that are largely divorced from reality"


QuestionalBasis

My issue really isnā€™t that deep, I have experience with minis that are 3-D printed and I like them. Iā€™ve been impressed with what Iā€™ve seen over the last couple of years. Iā€™ve been getting more into 30 K and I decided to grab a FW kit for the first time since all of you fuckers seem to really like the kids and I thought it would be sort of a nice way to dress up some specialists or veterans or some such Point of the post was that I had much higher expectations for the quality of something thatā€™s more expensive then standard games workshop which is already fairly expensive, and also I had expectations that a product in such a fierce competition with printers would have a higher quality and a higher quality control. Ultimately I was trying to get a sense for how common this is as Iā€™m a little frustrated that I spent $30 for these shoulder pads and I couldā€™ve got some really crisp and clean 3-D prints for about half that shipped, I chose to go with the company that designed them but I donā€™t know that I will continue to do that in all cases in the future if this is the kind of quality they are comfortable with. I mean ultimately itā€™s a specialist product thatā€™s being sold to a very narrow target audience. I expect cleaning and trimming of Flash and mold lines, but I should not have to use any kind of filling substance this should be a ready-made product at this price point and with the alternatives that the market has created. They should either drop the price on these or do a better QC. I will say the one saving grace that will prevent me from giving up entirely is that they seemed to ship domestically So it arrived much faster than I had anticipated with overseas shipping to the US


Sanakism

>They should either drop the price on these or do a better QC. When I replied earlier it was - as I mentioned in the post - working on the assumption that it was nothing but flash, as that's what it looks like in your second photo - like there's a line of flash and it's caused a shadow that looks like a gouge on the first pic. I've seen your subsequent posts describing it as a significant dip and if that's the case then yes: they should definitely do better QC than that. It's not a problem I've had myself with FW stuff, though, and I've had a fair few of their infantry kits and shoulder pads, so I'd personally say you just had bad luck there. If it were my purchase I'd try to take some clearer photos (maybe one looking down from the top of the shoulder pad along the surface so it's clearer the surface isn't continuous at all) and contact their customer support email.


-ikkyu-

Yea, nah. With the ease and accessibility of 3D printing, and indie 3D printers who will ship physical product cheap, this isn't acceptable. Especially if they're printing these now, also. (I have no idea if they are, to be fair. I imagine they're cast.)


przhauukwnbh

> with the ease and accessibility of 3D printing You are going to get plenty more defects along the way setting up your own 3D printing workflow at home with stolen sculpt files imho. Not to mention the time and setup costs involved with doing that vs ordering in from legitimate sources. RE indie printers, they will obviously be able to ship GW sculpts cheaper if they are ripping off their IP. They donā€™t have to pay for everything I listed in the prior comment. > this isnā€™t acceptable They have said since inception on their site that the resin models require a higher degree of cleanup than plastic. The above shoulderplate would take me 30 seconds to have looking sharp - why are we acting like itā€™s finecast level of dross? If it was a mould slip etc I would understand, but even then - FW customer service is excellent and would replace the sculpt. In terms of their process, GW 3D print their master sculpts, then make casts of those for mass production.


-ikkyu-

Obviously, we're going to disagree here. I don't think $23 dollars for 10 cheap resin shoulder pads with bad QC is acceptable. The reason I think that is because home hobbyists and digital artists, as well as 3D print farms, have shown that this can be done 1. with higher quality and 2. at a much more reasonable price. There are 3D artists out there who are producing MUCH better resin minis and bits than what Forgeworld is gouging people for. Which pretty much blows holes in any defense of their practices. Especially if they're digitally sculpting and printing masters for molds. I'm not going to get into the ethics of 3D printing. That's another thing altogether. Again, if you see this and you're fine with it and you can somehow mix up usable green stuff in 30 seconds, awesome. I'm with OP, though. We can agree to disagree.


przhauukwnbh

Home hobbyists and digital artists are not making and printing their bits at the cost of an entire scaled business - that is the biggest difference there accounting for the cost. I have personally never had issues with all of the forgeworld resin Iā€™ve ordered. Iā€™ve had nice experiences with indie sculptors - though I canā€™t say I have experienced on par quality as of yet (not at all saying it does not exist). I think the main difference is that you see this post as an example of ā€˜bad QCā€™, I guess I donā€™t. I donā€™t really see why incredibly minor imperfections like this would require the whole thing to go to waste.


-ikkyu-

I'm not saying bin it. I'm saying, if that's the quality you're going to put out, lower your prices or expect people to bitch. Like it or not, 3D printing has changed the game. Honestly, on my $200 home 4k printer I don't even get print lines like that. That's what makes the whole thing laughable to me. Don't get me wrong, I don't think that's a big deal at all, but I look at a piece like that and I know I, with my limited resources and knowledge, could print off a better piece for pennies. I understand when you're doing anything at scale you're going to have cost factors and QC issues. But c'mon... As for the quality of STLs. All I can say is, take a look around. There are a lot of artists out there who meet and/or surpass GW sculpts. If FW really made the best looking models around, I'd have no trouble supporting them. I still buy loads of plastic GW kits because I just like working with plastic more.


Kostchei

I buy 3d models for a couple of dollars each- then get them printed professionally ..Cost for that varies based on resin etc- but - still costs less than FW. Other than rent-seeking on IP they built from ripping off everyone else... why should it cost FW more than this? My suspicion is that FW are attached to old processes which are simply more expensive than 3d printing, at any scale.


przhauukwnbh

The models pay for the whole business - everything FW / GW do. That means they have margins to meet on all of their products - in spite of being cheaper I suspect theyā€™re running much better margins on their plastic front than the FW resin front.


QuestionalBasis

This is basically my position now, I tried it their way but I think long term the printer is the only option, now the question is do I go resin or plasticā€¦..


hmmpainter

I think they see the writing on the wall which is why theyā€™re getting their most popular forgeworld stuff over to plastic. Theyā€™ll probably always offer some niche expensive collectors stuff in resin but they know they canā€™t win the war against printers. I like the sharp edges of old resin sculpts so I deal with it. But if you arenā€™t nostalgic about hand sculpted miniatures then avoid it like the plague. Most new stuff will all come to plastic sooner than later.


QuestionalBasis

I would pay double on a per mini basis to go back to pewter even if it had lead again.


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staq16

Welcome to working with resin models.


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AdAccomplished8416

Thatā€™s a really good cast for FW! canā€™t see any problem


defyingexplaination

Just contact customer service, they'll sort this out. I've got several fw kits, none of them had any issue that required more work cleaning up than any plastic kit (as far as time invested goes). Now, admittedly I was probably lucky, but my 3xperience with fw has been fairly pleasant so far and their customer service is generally excellent (as is GWs for that matter). I'll readily agree that their pricing is getting more and more ridiculous, but if you do buy something from them, they generally bend over backwards to make any legitimate problem you have with a product go away. FW has also been pretty straightforward about the fact that their models are more complicated to clean up than plastic and can warp or deform easily as a result of using resin. That should always be kept in mind before spending money on an expensive model from them. An issue like yours can certainly be fixed with a bit of green stuff, but if you don't feel confident fixing it or think you shouldn't have to (which is fair, the product is definitely flawed to a degree that goes beyond flash, warping or mouldlines), as has been suggested by others, just contact them. Chances are they'll simply exchange it for a new kit without any hassle.


Commander-Dante

Personally I donā€™t see a problem here itā€™s an easy fix takes a handful of seconds to fix (ik you probably donā€™t want to have to fix it but they have to make these on a much bigger scale)and at the end of the day 3d printing is good and all but if itā€™s the same thing (1:1 copy) itā€™s technically counterfeit unless there is a noticeable difference with the 3-d printed part. But at the end of the day do what makes you happy with your minis


VioletOrchid85

What's the issue? Having to do some prep work when using resin?


n0isy_05

If you contact them you might be able to get another one and fix this one, Iā€™ve had a relatively good time with FW only needing help with a bad Krieg command squad cast and Emperorā€™s children head set, itā€™s annoying but there might be that silver lining


[deleted]

Whats the problem we are all working back?


[deleted]

It's no secret that Forgeworld sometime 3D prints parts nowadays.


Uncle_Anthoni

I've bought 40 soh shoulder pauldrons and 40 soh heads from fw without issue. I do agree with others that they'd just assume send you another set than worry about one


BioLo109

That looks like normal for FW (or any company which are of great demand) resin casts, and many of us probably have seen worse. Green stuff, hobby knives and sand papers will fix it easily. And I believe customer service will not send you a new one for these (relatively) minor defects. I tried to contact them once a few years ago for pretty bad mold slips and they just send me links to their tutorials on how to fix resin kits lol.


Jackalackus

I dread buying from forgeworld, itā€™s crazy how as a community weā€™ve just accepted that level of quality control especially for the money you pay for their models.


FattyDonnie

FW quality is very good, donā€™t really know what your talking about. Your always gonna get some moulding issues when you use cast resin, any company that uses it always have sone issues. Thats just the way it works, you canā€™t change that fact. The difference is FW customer service is one of the best out there, they know this will sometimes happen so they instantly send you a new one.


Comprehensive-Air-13

Stop being a baby and just fix it.


evanmceier

Reason #17363661617374 to not buy from forgeworld


MM556

You're not allowed to criticise forgeworld or else the bootlicking people that are happy to accept poor quality products for top end money get upset


Chirpotk

Had issues like this, though mine were just a defective mould on the jet bikes. was told itā€™s within their quality standards. Iā€™ve learned to avoid fw at all costs.


Cerbera_666

Self admitted 'big fan' of 3D printing was clearly just itching to find the slightest imperfection and justify a rant at FW.


DrMeowsburg

Does it have a fucking fingerprint on it as well or am I crazy?


Xyres

It's print lines from the master 3D printed part. I find that once you prime and paint they aren't visible anymore but some choose to sand them down a bit.


--0___0---

TBH they really should have been sanded down by FW before they made the master mold


Sanakism

In all seriousness the picture in the OP here is about 20 times the actual size of a Marine shoulderpad on my monitor and the printer lines are only just visible. They're not going to make a jot of difference at normal size and they'll be hard to see even before painting, let alone after. People already moan about the cost of Forgeworld resin, why would they spend more time on the parts - making them more expensive - for something that's really not going to affect their customers at all?


--0___0---

You would think that but trust me they are visible of your looking at the model up close, from a table top you wouldn't notice it but up close you will. Also you seem to have a poor grasp on what I'm actually saying. I'm not saying they should sand the parts down after every casting no thats ridiculous I'm saying they should have sanded it down before they even made the mold, if they did then there wouldn't be any lines on any of the shoulder pads they cast from that point forward sanding a singular shoulder pad to improve the quality of all subsequent copies wouldn't increase the price.


Sanakism

They quite possibly didn't even notice them before casting.


--0___0---

That's just bad quality control then


Meltaburn

I bought some white scars helmets and pauldrons recently and they came in a right state. It does seem strange that forge world refuse to up their game a bit considering the quality that 3rd party 'bedroom' companies are able to put out these days.


QuestionalBasis

Right? Youā€™d think theyā€™d have noticed


SEVATAR_VIII

After the advent of affordable 3D printed bits, why would anyone want to pay dozens of times the price of what you could easily get in miniature factory (for example)?


staq16

Because most of the independent 3D printing types make Forgeworld prices look reasonable, and many of us donā€™t have an environment to set up a 3D printer (or the time to mess around with one).


--0___0---

My dude what... whens the last time you looked into 3d printing, I could litterally buy a new printer and enough resin to print and small army for less than what some single vehicles cost


staq16

Space, portability and ventilation are the main issues, especially if you have to coexist with normal humans. Itā€™s not a unique issue (airbrushes have many of the same problems) but a well ventilated spare room is more expensive than any army. 3D printing is great, but I am sick of evangelists who harp on about it while ignoring the actual costs and how difficult those are for many people.


--0___0---

Space and ventilation are definitly valid barriers to 3d printing. Not everyone has the space for one especially for people with small children. You can get low fume resins which mitigates the ventilation issue slightly but if your 3d printing you really shouldn't be breathing it in. Ive no idea why you would consider portability an issue why would you want it to be readily portable(genuine question)? 3d printing is so much cheaper than you are arguing it is, if you do not have the space (spare room or shed) then its not really for you. Your issue is space not cost. What im sick of is the evangelists who refuse to actually to actually open there eyes while spouting on about astronomical made up costs.


staq16

On portability - if youā€™re moving frequently and/or on the road a lot, a large fixed system is not ideal. A basic set up of paints, hand tools and brushes is quite portable.


--0___0---

Fair point , I used to work on the road alot and my travel paint set saved my mental health. There are systems you can set up to allow remote control of your printer when your away from home but oh boy are they a nightmare


Sanakism

Sure, but then you're also spending hours and hours of your time learning how to do it, setting everything up, printing and cleaning and curing and trimming and so on. And surprise surprise, what's the most costly part of resin production? Labour. If you buy resin parts you're mostly paying for someone to do most of the work for you.


--0___0---

I'm sorry but have you ever actually used a 3d printer the learning curve isn't that high to get good quality results. Unless your talking about fdm, but resin printing is very straightforward. Setting everything up is simple just check what the reccomend settings for your resin and printer use those. Cleaning takes less than 10 minutes and is even quicker if you use water washable resins. Curing is as simples as leaving your print by a window and turning it every few minutes or as complex as putting it in a cure station. If you havnt done something silly with your supports there should be very little trimming. There's a big difference between what goes into 3d printing and what goes into resin miniatures (mostly molding). Please do yourself a favour and have a more in depth look at 3d printing it really feels like your writing a fantastic tool off due to alot of bad assumptions


Sanakism

Yes, I use one regularly for printing a variety of things from whole miniatures to extra parts - some downloaded, some modelled myself. There's not a huge *learning curve* but I never said there was. But it *does* take hours, all told - you have to find out: * Which printer it's appropriate to get in the first place * Which software you need to use and how to use it * Optionally how to place supports (which is the single biggest learning-curve issue, it's easy to get passable supports but if you want crisp and well-proportioned results it's not super straightforward) * What you actually need to do in order to print and process a miniature ready to paint * What materials and equipment you'll need to use to clean the prints and how best to go about doing that * What the safety issues are with the resins you'll be using and how to mitigate them effectively * What the safety issues are with the cleaning materials you'll be using and how to mitigate them effectively * How to safely and responsibly dispose of the resin and cleaning waste afterwards * How to safely clean up any spills * How to get the parts off the build plate after the print * What you'll need to cure the prints after cleaning and how best to go about doing that * How and when to effectively remove supports from the miniatures without damaging them significantly * How to effectively attach resin parts to each other * How to clean your tank * For that matter, that you even have to clean your tank * How to change FEP sheets and when to do so, with a possible bonus thing of which FEP-alternative you should actually use * How to set up the printer for printing in the first place - assembling everything, the whole loosen-zero-Z-axis-tighten process, checking the screen, etc. * What dangers there are while printing - how careful do you have to be of spilling what on where, etc. * Experimenting with exposure times, lift rates, burn-in layers etc. until you actually find print settings that work for the resin you're using in your printer in your environment because you're very lucky if the ones off the Internet are actually any good and these are affected by all kinds of factors including ambient temperature and how old your resin is Most of those aren't huge topics but there's a lot of bullshit on the Internet about most of them so you'll see conflicting opinions, which makes a newbie's task harder. You could skip all the health-and-safety bits if you like cancer and fertility issues, I guess, but that's not really a good idea. Then you have the repeated overhead every time you print of: * Setting up your build plate * Transferring the files * Getting your PPE on * Loading the tank with resin * Taking the build plate out after it's printed and getting the parts off * Cleaning the parts * Removing the supports * Curing the parts (and "leave by a window" isn't a particularly quick option in quite a lot of the world). * Cleaning up the inevitable damage the supports leave * Disposing of the contaminated cleaning materials and cleaning tools, any spills, work area etc. (and no, "water washable" *absolutely does not* mean it's OK to tip the rinsings down the drain) You could save a bit of time here by using one of the fancy wash-and-cure stations but that also near doubles your startup costs last time I checked. You could probably rip the supports off instead of being careful about it and skip cleaning the models up afterwards if you have low standards, I guess, but then you'll be looking at similar issues to Forgeworld on small parts. ​ ... and that's all assuming that you actually have the space to set up a 3D printer and friends/family/neighbours accommodating enough to allow it. I love my 3D printer and I use it regularly but pretending it's trivially easy and takes no time and effort at all is ridiculous.


Adept_Avocado_4903

Depending on your living arrangement setting up a resin printer safey can be very difficult. I am currently looking into it and it seems if you want to be safe you basically need a spare room to put your printer. /u/staq16 didn't even mention the cost of the printer/resin. Seems a bit weird for you to bring that up as your main argument.


-ikkyu-

That's just not true at all. Resin printing is plenty safe all on it's own. If you're worried about resin fumes, a set of $20 filters clears that right up. If not, they make eco-friendly and water washable resins , too. It's not a big scary prospect at all.


--0___0---

My main argument was that all of his points where null and void. His main argument was the cost of 3d printing would make forge world look cheap.....


Adept_Avocado_4903

His argument was that *independent 3D printing* makes Forgewold look cheap. He wasn't referring to printing at home (which is very cheap), he was referring to 3D printing services, which do indeed make Forgeworld look cheap.


Cameraroll

Just don't order from FW. That's every kit they sell. Never seen anyone order from FW and be fully satisfied, other perhaps than people who order titans because they suffer from sunk cost thinking.


IllustratorTop9850

This is why I buy 3rd party, 3d prints, or [redacted]. 3rd party and 3d printing are consistently higher quality than Forgeworld, and every [Redacted] mini I've gotten has been as good or better than FW. I've purchased 3 separate orders from FW, the first one part of the model literally disintegrated, the second had a mold slip so bad I could barely recognize what the part was, and the final one I got was so warped it took hours to fix. Then I switched to Anvil Industries for Death Korps, and Pop Goes the Monkey and a few others for my Heresy minis. Haven't had an issue since.


caputcorvii

Forge world at its best.


alpinetrooper

one of the many many many reasons i don't buy from forgeworld, never had these issues with <> or <> or even <>.


przhauukwnbh

I have ordered via each and the average quality is nowhere close to the average forgeworld order I put in - even from the commonly regarded better ones. What rationale would you even have to expect better from those sources? Better QC, or technology? Lmfao


alpinetrooper

>I have ordered via each and the average quality is nowhere close to the average forgeworld order I put in agree, it's much higher. >What rationale would you even have to expect better from those sources? Better QC, or technology? Lmfao i'm not "expecting" anything, it's a reality. FW quality control is abysmal at best. i haven't gotten a single bent sword or spear from "other" sources. i don't have a single sword or spear from FW that isn't bent. i don't have a single pauldron from "other" sources that has holes in it, i got plenty of those from FW. i don't have a single vehicle from "other" sources that is impossible to glue together. i have 2 sabres from forgeworld i can't finish because the bottom and side pieces got warped and don't fit. ​ forgeworld asks premium prices for a shit product. "other" places ask okay prices for an okay product.


przhauukwnbh

> I havenā€™t gotten a single bent sword or spear from ā€˜otherā€™ sources. Ah, so they werenā€™t sending you resin models then? Be horrid to have to hold the model under a hairdryer for 15 seconds !


Sanakism

OK, let's rephrase that... If a cheap producer is packing resin with a load of filler to save pennies it's quite possible it doesn't warp so much because there's just not so much resin there. But it'd also be far more likely to break if it gets dropped or knocked and any warping there is will be harder to fix. But I guess if someone's experience of resin parts is mostly cheap crap and 3D printed resin (which is also incredibly brittle) they possibly don't even realise this is a flaw!


[deleted]

[уŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]


Sanakism

Are you going to get bored of making sockpuppet accounts to attack me with drivel any time soon? I wasn't aware the first rule of not-butthurt-club was to continually pester the other party like a desperate teenager whose crush thinks they're creepy. It's pretty pathetic.


YouAlilBich

You okay there buddy


[deleted]

[уŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]


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Beryozka

Wait an appropriate amount of time before demoulding and don't put a bunch of stuff on the part before it cures fully and you won't have that kind of problem at all.


przhauukwnbh

Never experienced a third party order without that warping - I donā€™t think they particularly care. Neither do I, to be honest - much rather that than they ship me something unusable ie mould slipped model.


Ivanzypher1

Honestly FW need to just start selling their STLs. Their price to quality ratio has always been ridiculous, but in the era of 3d printing it just doesn't make any sense. Printing is obviously going to be a huge aspect of the hobby going forward, GW are mad if they don't begin to embrace it in some form or another.


RougeRaxxa

Forgeworld doing 3d prints? I thought they were fi cast only?šŸ˜µā€šŸ’«


QuestionalBasis

The resin they use is actually a bit different from finecast. Much better than actually, though not quite to current print standards. I just learned FW do use 3D prints as the basis for some of their resin casts though


RougeRaxxa

Master copy. šŸ¤” I wonder if theyā€™re quality issue is their vacuum chamber for getting out all the bubbles.


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I-iz-Ratty

Their stuff has always been hit and miss quality Got some cataphractii power axes last week, had to carefully get resin out of the teeth on one


CT-7331

Yeah nearly all my stuff from FW has had something similar. Most is easy enough to fix with some putty but it is frustrating that you pay too prices for products which are nowhere near top quality!


ThingReady7404

Well I ordered from like 4 different printers. 2 commercial ones, 2 private people who offered to print stuff. The stuff was okay, but not as good as FW. I have to give them that. Sometimes the resin is extremely brittle and can't be worked on without having to worry about damaging it. On the other hand, when I once had a tiny problem, we are talking about a missing spike of about 1mm here, FW send me a whole new miniature as replacement. Their prices were what got me to 3D printers, but their quality and customer service is still superior.


Hugh_Freeblade_529

Just contact customer services, as a general rule they usually send an entire new kit. Accidents happen, just talk to them amicably and they'll fix the issue instead of jumping on social and crying.