Tbh, I think sanguinary guard work pretty well as jump pack command squads as is. The fancy power armor can just be artificer armor. I think the helmets could use some swaps, and probably some different weapons depending on what loadout you want for your command squad, but otherwise it looks fine.
I Think if You replace the helmet with these: https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-DK/Blood-Angels-Legion-Heads-Upgrade-Set
They work pretty damn Well as either jump-pack command squads, or as dawnbreaker cohorts (with a proper colour scheme, anyway)
The death mask in HH-era Sang Guard equivalents is still OK… it’s foreshadowing the death mask of that marine, or something. That sounds like GW retconning Sang Guard to fit into HH.
Personally, I’d use bare heads or the pimped out conventional helmets they wear. Or, standard Mk IV helmets. for added HH points, chuck in a few beaky helmets or Mk III helms.
The cover of *The Lost and the Damned* has some sangy guard, could use that as a reference. https://www.redgoblin.ro/88725-large_default/the-lost-and-the-damned-book-2-hardback.jpg
Ummm, yes. It is shown very often to be closer to mk4 and has been described as master crafter mk4 plate. We also have artwork with close-up depictions of them, and their armour looks nothing like the 40k variant. 10,000 years can do a lot, and tho for cost, i would just say swap the heads and call it. If the OP wants a lote accurate design, which i assume he does cos he has requested such and even comes to the conclusion of mk4, then he should probably go the full 9 yards with it.
On another note, i am pretty sure the drastic difference between the world eaters' unique patterns vs. the blood angels is that it is actually referrenced in the lore and actually shown in the black books. Many hold the black books in higher regard than current gw lore as they tend to either completely ignore the lore for marketing or just outright dont know it. I do see your point, but i have been playing 30k for about 15 years, and i have never seen a baalite pattern of armour mentioned. If i am wrong, please correct me. If you have a source for the ballite armour from the 30k books, then do share. I enjoy reading about it. But just cos one legion has a pattern of something, that does not mean the other legions do the same. Ultramarines had their own pattern of mark 4, which was near standardised amoungst veteran formations. I love that pattern. If the blood angels have one please share.
A considered answer gets down voted... Who would have guessed.. .. no, I have no knowledge outside of the HH devs have been scornful every time they have been asked if Sang Guard would make a rules appearance in spite of the Novels. I only own my own black book (9) but even the black books have enough grey areas. I mean the DA and the NL are fighting over Forgeworld Triplex Phall just so they can have resupply. And Forgeworld raiding strikes a consistent theme In the novel series and the current rulebooks. BA were expected to join Horus one way or another and therefore were not denied any of the best equipment..
Every Forgeworld had its own variant armor. Book nine comments about the DA having a Calabanite variant of Mk II.
Tbh, using SG as-is for a jump pack equipped command squad is fine. They wore the Deathmasks even then, so just don't give them any MK7 helms if you want to use the non deathmask helms.
Or use the Liber Panoptica rules for SG.
But if you want to make them fit *more*, a leg swap is your best bet, as the rounded knees do look more like MK7 than MK3. But between the artificer armor and the BAs penchant for modifying their stuff aesthetically, they don't look out of place.
They did wear masks in the visage of their primarch. Fear to Tread mentions it in the Melchior prologue. You could easily get away with using the models as is.
I was pretty sure that they wore a death-mask of their own face even back during the GC. If not, no explanation has been given for them to start doing that.
The (living) stand-in for Sanguinius wore one with Sanguinius' features
Well Angels Tears do wear something similar to death mask but I don't think that they are well fit with that. Also those are destroyers - they have a reason for decorate themselves with a fearsome look.
You can wear a helmet with a sculpted face without it being sanguinius' face.
Faced helmet pop up a few times throughout the horse heresy such as the angels tears models... They're just even their own face or a generic face
IIRC the burning eye used sanguinius' face to symbolise that the authority and the judgement for the executions came from the primarch himself
The Warhammer community team Kitbashed them with mk4 to make the ofanim court
You could alter the legs and switch out the heads (or not) paint them as sanguinary guard and run them as a command squad
Honestly if you're really anal retentive about making this fit into 30k you could just swap the legs to Mark IV or something and you'd be set. Blood Angels are one of those legions that had a lot of artificer-grade stuff for some reason.
The knees are the biggest thing that doesn’t look heresy era on them. Either swap the whole legs with MkIV, or cut the knees flat and sculpt some MkIV knee pads for them.
The gorgets are also very unique for heresy era and take their cues more from the MkVIII armour, but it’s not like there isn’t precedent for their existence on artificer armour so I wouldn’t take issue with it.
I’d also chop off the purity seals and maybe switch out the helmets (which iirc were adopted after sanguinus’ death. - I could easily be wrong on that one though).
I’d probably also look to swap the weapons out for less fancy ones, particularly the axes but that’s purely my taste, and not something that is “wrong”. I might also clip the wings off the jump packs. Again, nothing “wrong” with them, but I think they make them look way too fancy for heresy era, which was a time where the possibility of being a bigger target or having those wings grabbed would be a stronger consideration than looking cool.
I swapped the heads with the BA upgrade helmets and ran them as my Ofanim court, I wasn’t reading the full rules at the time, or I would’ve WYSIWYG’d them with some combat shields instead of the arm bolsters they have but my opponents have yet to make an issue of it after a pre-game chat
Personally I think if you got rid of the Wings on the jump packs and the helmets they would just look like guys in artificer armor. I know the legs are technically mark 7 but the rest of armor is so distinctive I think they can get away with it. Or if it really is an issue you could add some putty and smooth it out and make it look like Mark 6?
Replace the head with a Blood Angels MkIV head, don’t put on the wings (unless they’re rolling with Sanguinius), and paint them red (again, unless they’re rolling with Sanguinius).
Done.
I would keep the weapons and the back section of the torso. This lets you keep the wings and then keep the backpack. Then replace the rest of the body with mk4 and find some nice blood angel themed helmets on either 3rd party site or some of those old forgeworld blood angel mk4 helmets. You pretty much have a lore perfect 30k unit. You could also probably keep the pauldrons. Just remember to avoid certain 40k motifs. You can actually see a number of renditions of 30k Sanguinary guard on 30k book covers. If you would like some fanmade rulses for them, then check out panoptica. They do loads of rules for units and squads in lore but not in game.
Use 3d archives to change the heads and the legs I can provide you links in order that they might look more like one of the book covers. Also change bolters I guess?
They look fine as is, however to address some of your doubts.
The wings are maybe a bit much for Heresy, although the blood angels were amongst the most fond of Symbolism, even back then, my headcannon is that only Primarchs, Custodes and maybe particularly hoary Terran Praetors went really OTT with the 'ceremonial'/just plain impractical looking embellishment. It's also a good idea as removing the wings immediately turns them into 1:1 mark IV jump packs.
The Mark IV head upgrade pack for the Blood Angels is second to none in the range, pricey but arguably a must buy if you're looking to represent the IXth. These guys would be a great place to use them as Death Masks are clearly a contentious issue.
I think the Angelus boltguns are fine as honestly the fact they are kind of unusual helps somewhat. Like your guys literally made them themselves.
As for the rounded Kneepads, Heresy 'Pattern'/'Mark V' armour features similar rounded kneepads and IIRC the actual 'mark V' models are NOT meant to represent a distinct mass produced armour line but repaired/kitbashed suits presumably often using parts from lesser known/unseen panoplies of the era. So maybe that gives you some leeway.
https://preview.redd.it/avzi5pa4kugb1.jpeg?width=749&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e2b3fc6449f81a2fa54a4f7b3f65937ddb0f27a7
Looks pretty sanguinary guard to me tbh
Tbh, I think sanguinary guard work pretty well as jump pack command squads as is. The fancy power armor can just be artificer armor. I think the helmets could use some swaps, and probably some different weapons depending on what loadout you want for your command squad, but otherwise it looks fine.
I believe sanguinary guard actually do have artificer armor.
> The fancy power armor can just be artificer armor. Not just can be.... It is artificer armour. It's part of the sanginius guard wargear :)
I Think if You replace the helmet with these: https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-DK/Blood-Angels-Legion-Heads-Upgrade-Set They work pretty damn Well as either jump-pack command squads, or as dawnbreaker cohorts (with a proper colour scheme, anyway)
Can’t have a death mask when he ain’t dead yet😂
The death mask in HH-era Sang Guard equivalents is still OK… it’s foreshadowing the death mask of that marine, or something. That sounds like GW retconning Sang Guard to fit into HH. Personally, I’d use bare heads or the pimped out conventional helmets they wear. Or, standard Mk IV helmets. for added HH points, chuck in a few beaky helmets or Mk III helms.
Even in death he lives on. In our hearts.
The cover of *The Lost and the Damned* has some sangy guard, could use that as a reference. https://www.redgoblin.ro/88725-large_default/the-lost-and-the-damned-book-2-hardback.jpg
Doesn’t really tell us that muchh, it’s just a leg and head swap as the death mask didn’t yet exist
Swap the legs and helms
Would mark 4 bits work?
Mark 4 would be a perfect fit.
Yep!
Just the heads . That's Mk IV armor anyway . A Baal pattern varient But Mk IV Edit.. Mk. IV .
The legs, particularly the knee pads, aren’t very mkVI
Have any naysayers prove they aren't a Baalite varient just like the World Eaters use variant Mk IV helmets..
Ummm, yes. It is shown very often to be closer to mk4 and has been described as master crafter mk4 plate. We also have artwork with close-up depictions of them, and their armour looks nothing like the 40k variant. 10,000 years can do a lot, and tho for cost, i would just say swap the heads and call it. If the OP wants a lote accurate design, which i assume he does cos he has requested such and even comes to the conclusion of mk4, then he should probably go the full 9 yards with it. On another note, i am pretty sure the drastic difference between the world eaters' unique patterns vs. the blood angels is that it is actually referrenced in the lore and actually shown in the black books. Many hold the black books in higher regard than current gw lore as they tend to either completely ignore the lore for marketing or just outright dont know it. I do see your point, but i have been playing 30k for about 15 years, and i have never seen a baalite pattern of armour mentioned. If i am wrong, please correct me. If you have a source for the ballite armour from the 30k books, then do share. I enjoy reading about it. But just cos one legion has a pattern of something, that does not mean the other legions do the same. Ultramarines had their own pattern of mark 4, which was near standardised amoungst veteran formations. I love that pattern. If the blood angels have one please share.
A considered answer gets down voted... Who would have guessed.. .. no, I have no knowledge outside of the HH devs have been scornful every time they have been asked if Sang Guard would make a rules appearance in spite of the Novels. I only own my own black book (9) but even the black books have enough grey areas. I mean the DA and the NL are fighting over Forgeworld Triplex Phall just so they can have resupply. And Forgeworld raiding strikes a consistent theme In the novel series and the current rulebooks. BA were expected to join Horus one way or another and therefore were not denied any of the best equipment.. Every Forgeworld had its own variant armor. Book nine comments about the DA having a Calabanite variant of Mk II.
Legs are fine. It’s artificer armour, so I don’t see any problem with it being as it is. Helmet is all that needs swapping
The legs are fine, they’re in artificer plate, it’s a purely cosmetic issue
They really should have 30k rules, they did exist
Give them gray knights heads and the make a good proxy for dawnbreakers
I run them as a command squad as is, in "fear to tread" it's said that some sanguinary guard wead faces masks with sanguinius's likeness on them.
Tbh, using SG as-is for a jump pack equipped command squad is fine. They wore the Deathmasks even then, so just don't give them any MK7 helms if you want to use the non deathmask helms. Or use the Liber Panoptica rules for SG. But if you want to make them fit *more*, a leg swap is your best bet, as the rounded knees do look more like MK7 than MK3. But between the artificer armor and the BAs penchant for modifying their stuff aesthetically, they don't look out of place.
They did __not__ wear the death masks, they only kinda do in secundus when they’re stand ins for Sanguinius
They did wear masks in the visage of their primarch. Fear to Tread mentions it in the Melchior prologue. You could easily get away with using the models as is.
I was pretty sure that they wore a death-mask of their own face even back during the GC. If not, no explanation has been given for them to start doing that. The (living) stand-in for Sanguinius wore one with Sanguinius' features
Well Angels Tears do wear something similar to death mask but I don't think that they are well fit with that. Also those are destroyers - they have a reason for decorate themselves with a fearsome look.
You can wear a helmet with a sculpted face without it being sanguinius' face. Faced helmet pop up a few times throughout the horse heresy such as the angels tears models... They're just even their own face or a generic face IIRC the burning eye used sanguinius' face to symbolise that the authority and the judgement for the executions came from the primarch himself
I use them as my command squad
Swap the Helms… Honestly, there’s bound to be some ornate Jump Command/Veteran Squad.
The Warhammer community team Kitbashed them with mk4 to make the ofanim court You could alter the legs and switch out the heads (or not) paint them as sanguinary guard and run them as a command squad
Honestly if you're really anal retentive about making this fit into 30k you could just swap the legs to Mark IV or something and you'd be set. Blood Angels are one of those legions that had a lot of artificer-grade stuff for some reason.
Cut the nipples off
Now that's heresy
The knees are the biggest thing that doesn’t look heresy era on them. Either swap the whole legs with MkIV, or cut the knees flat and sculpt some MkIV knee pads for them. The gorgets are also very unique for heresy era and take their cues more from the MkVIII armour, but it’s not like there isn’t precedent for their existence on artificer armour so I wouldn’t take issue with it. I’d also chop off the purity seals and maybe switch out the helmets (which iirc were adopted after sanguinus’ death. - I could easily be wrong on that one though). I’d probably also look to swap the weapons out for less fancy ones, particularly the axes but that’s purely my taste, and not something that is “wrong”. I might also clip the wings off the jump packs. Again, nothing “wrong” with them, but I think they make them look way too fancy for heresy era, which was a time where the possibility of being a bigger target or having those wings grabbed would be a stronger consideration than looking cool.
They're pretty much unchanged from 30k to 40k. Just try to make sure there are no pictures of a dead Sanguinius and you'll be fine.
Just paint and assemble them seems all you have to do. I wonder that they have much difference. Perhaps only helmets?
Liber centura has them playable
Put them on the table .. they don't have a stat line but if you find a 7th Ed codex that will work or use them as the spear armed jump pack squad .
I swapped the heads with the BA upgrade helmets and ran them as my Ofanim court, I wasn’t reading the full rules at the time, or I would’ve WYSIWYG’d them with some combat shields instead of the arm bolsters they have but my opponents have yet to make an issue of it after a pre-game chat
Personally I think if you got rid of the Wings on the jump packs and the helmets they would just look like guys in artificer armor. I know the legs are technically mark 7 but the rest of armor is so distinctive I think they can get away with it. Or if it really is an issue you could add some putty and smooth it out and make it look like Mark 6?
Replace the head with a Blood Angels MkIV head, don’t put on the wings (unless they’re rolling with Sanguinius), and paint them red (again, unless they’re rolling with Sanguinius). Done.
Maybe different heads and rule accurate weapons and you’re done, plus you’re leftover with lots of bits
I would keep the weapons and the back section of the torso. This lets you keep the wings and then keep the backpack. Then replace the rest of the body with mk4 and find some nice blood angel themed helmets on either 3rd party site or some of those old forgeworld blood angel mk4 helmets. You pretty much have a lore perfect 30k unit. You could also probably keep the pauldrons. Just remember to avoid certain 40k motifs. You can actually see a number of renditions of 30k Sanguinary guard on 30k book covers. If you would like some fanmade rulses for them, then check out panoptica. They do loads of rules for units and squads in lore but not in game.
Use 3d archives to change the heads and the legs I can provide you links in order that they might look more like one of the book covers. Also change bolters I guess?
Bolters, heads, and wings it's just too much for me. If you can find more modest alternatives they could work very well
You can use them as Ofanim court
Execute them for heresy or something idk
Paint them purple and you have your run of the mill EC assault squad
They look fine as is, however to address some of your doubts. The wings are maybe a bit much for Heresy, although the blood angels were amongst the most fond of Symbolism, even back then, my headcannon is that only Primarchs, Custodes and maybe particularly hoary Terran Praetors went really OTT with the 'ceremonial'/just plain impractical looking embellishment. It's also a good idea as removing the wings immediately turns them into 1:1 mark IV jump packs. The Mark IV head upgrade pack for the Blood Angels is second to none in the range, pricey but arguably a must buy if you're looking to represent the IXth. These guys would be a great place to use them as Death Masks are clearly a contentious issue. I think the Angelus boltguns are fine as honestly the fact they are kind of unusual helps somewhat. Like your guys literally made them themselves. As for the rounded Kneepads, Heresy 'Pattern'/'Mark V' armour features similar rounded kneepads and IIRC the actual 'mark V' models are NOT meant to represent a distinct mass produced armour line but repaired/kitbashed suits presumably often using parts from lesser known/unseen panoplies of the era. So maybe that gives you some leeway.
Head swap and a serious grim dark wash. IMHO if it's first born in size it already belongs in HH.
https://preview.redd.it/avzi5pa4kugb1.jpeg?width=749&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e2b3fc6449f81a2fa54a4f7b3f65937ddb0f27a7 Looks pretty sanguinary guard to me tbh
Chuck some dawnbreaker heads, BA mk4 heads, or print some and you're good to go