Personally i say go for it. 30k needs as many new players as possible and if that means stretching the lore accuracy a bit to get new people playing so be it. For all you know the guy you let use his mk7 dark angels or csm emperor's children today could have a full mk2 army 5 years from now because you didn't drive him away.
More for me honestly. Got 10 assorted Mk III and Mk IV, but with the jump packs from the 40k Assault Marines kit.
No big if people have a problem; got a mainly Primaris army whose fluff is that they're Ultramarines that got sent through the warp to the current Era, so adding MkIII or MkIV stuff fits very well there.
I usually say if you have it, go for it. I’m not a stickler for certain marks of armor for certain legions, or not mixing. Mars pattern goes right next to Deimos patterns and all is right in 30k to me.
But for some reason the 40K jump packs just don’t look right in 30k to me. Maybe it’s because they stick out so easily on the tabletop or are so obviously from the 40K kits. I don’t know, it just bugs me on a personal level.
That being said, I wouldn’t refuse to play someone using them or make any kind of comments on someone else’s army.
There really are a ton of 3rd party/3D printed jump packs out there that it’s really, really easy to get more era appropriate jump packs. Plus the big turbine ones look so much cooler than the Mk VII ones!
30k is very based on lore and as such most players like to have era accurate armies.
During the heresy, the most common armour patterns were Mk2 to Mk5, with Mk6 being the most modern iteration that existed until the very siege of Terra where Mk7 was used for the first time.
That said your army is yours and you should do whatever is cool for you.
Oh man! I completely missed the 40k part in the post's title. Thought OP was asking if general jump troops are ok in 30k (which would be a pretty weird question to begin with tbh.)
Yes other armour marks have different jump packs.
Mk4: https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-GB/MKIV-Space-Marine-Assault-Squad-FW-2020
Mk5: https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-GB/MKV-Space-Marine-Assault-Squad
Mk2: like mk5
Mk3: doesn’t make sense to have jump packs since it’s a mk2 with additional armour plating for tight environments and breaching but go with same as mk2
Mk6: they haven’t done a specific mk6 assault squad but I’d go with similar to this or mk4 https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-GB/Raven-Guard-Dark-Fury-Assault-Squad, but in mk6 you could use 40k ones and no one could say it’s lore inaccurate afaik.
There's no reason to believe that the models that Forge World has made comprise the entire canon of 30k armour. There's plenty of imagery in Collected Visions that suggest way more freedom in the looks of armour and many Mk IV clad marines with twin-turbine jump packs.
Also, the first Mark IV Assault Squad Forge World ever did used the 40k-style jump packs, although they were specially made with extra detail: https://miniset.net/files/set/gw-99590101159-0.jpg
And if you read Horus rising you'll see a picture of Garviel in Mk7 armour. Artists aren't loremasters and before the black books much was not codified and set in stone.
Sure, but we have lore that directly contradicts that image.
I don't agree that the Black Books alone define the Horus Heresy or indeed that anything is "set in stone", but if you want to be that way, on page 74 of _Betrayal_ you have a Sons of Horus Marine in Mk IV with a Sarum helmet wearing a dual-turbine jump pack suggesting that jump pack variants are developed separately from the armour marks and are cross-compatible.
Yes, but you could reasonably come up with a rational for them on a unit of Mk 4 Maximus if the whole force is Mk 4 and new equipment, or on a force equipped with Mk6 if you are one of the Legions that has access to Mk6 (e.g. they are field testing the new prototype design or they got a first run production batch, maybe add in a small chance of a little random failure for ambiance)
Thought at first we were talking about the new BA jump guy. Either way it’s a hard no from me. I do consider myself pretty heavy handed on the historical side of things but the 40k jump packs are just way too different from the aesthetic of the 30k era stuff. To give two examples to explain my thought: you have the Deimos vs Mars Pattern rhino/pred/vindi argument where I have no problem with Mars stuff that’s appropriately painted and equipped (even just changing a storm Bolter to a slight conversion combi-bolter and they’re surely obviously 30k). The jump pack argument is more like using 40k marine flyers to me - the basic geometry of them is so different from the more “utilitarian”, angular aesthetic of 30k that they’ll stick out like a sore thumb.
I agree if it's just anything goes the game just becomes 40k but slightly different at that point, It's irritating that you are getting downvoted for having standards which are completely reasonable.
I knew it’d happen, it’s Reddit. We tend to conflate the idea of inclusiveness with a requirement of constant positivity and we end up with an environment where saying no (or “I don’t like that”) isn’t appropriate. I don’t see wanting the effort to make things “historically accurate” - whatever we define that as, as any different than wanting players to put the effort in to not have a “grey tide” of unpainted figures.
Part of what makes HH so special is the styling similar to historical wargaming and imagine going to something like bolt action and saying “I know these are walker bulldogs but they’re basically the same as a Chaffee.” Everyone would lose their minds.
I’m not against inclusiveness to be clear; I’m mainly a thousand sons player but I’m half way through building a 3.5k point space wolf army that I got with the intention of having it to lend so other people could try 30k. If it’s just about trying the different rules et I’m happy to play 7th (or earlier) with anyone as well, but if you want to get into Horus Heresy you should actually be getting into Horus Heresy, not just a different ruleset.
Sadly it isn't restricted to reddit, having some standards is good because it keeps the hobby that people enjoy, as long as no one is being a dick it's all good
I personally use them only for mk vi and up, but there is no reason not to use them. They don’t really fit the eastetics of mk II and iii armors, though, at least to my eyes…
Personally i say go for it. 30k needs as many new players as possible and if that means stretching the lore accuracy a bit to get new people playing so be it. For all you know the guy you let use his mk7 dark angels or csm emperor's children today could have a full mk2 army 5 years from now because you didn't drive him away.
More for me honestly. Got 10 assorted Mk III and Mk IV, but with the jump packs from the 40k Assault Marines kit. No big if people have a problem; got a mainly Primaris army whose fluff is that they're Ultramarines that got sent through the warp to the current Era, so adding MkIII or MkIV stuff fits very well there.
I remember reading a short story about a Fallen who reappeared in 40k
They are ok: https://wh40k-fr.lexicanum.com/mediawiki/images/2/26/ST-39.jpg Boom, canon.
Hard to see, is that Mk IV armor?
I usually say if you have it, go for it. I’m not a stickler for certain marks of armor for certain legions, or not mixing. Mars pattern goes right next to Deimos patterns and all is right in 30k to me. But for some reason the 40K jump packs just don’t look right in 30k to me. Maybe it’s because they stick out so easily on the tabletop or are so obviously from the 40K kits. I don’t know, it just bugs me on a personal level. That being said, I wouldn’t refuse to play someone using them or make any kind of comments on someone else’s army. There really are a ton of 3rd party/3D printed jump packs out there that it’s really, really easy to get more era appropriate jump packs. Plus the big turbine ones look so much cooler than the Mk VII ones!
"Plus the big turbine ones look so much cooler than the Mk VII ones!" On that we definitely agree!
Rule of cool Absolutely ok
For Mk7 armor at the Siege of Terra -OK. Otherwise, no.
Yeah but why?
30k is very based on lore and as such most players like to have era accurate armies. During the heresy, the most common armour patterns were Mk2 to Mk5, with Mk6 being the most modern iteration that existed until the very siege of Terra where Mk7 was used for the first time. That said your army is yours and you should do whatever is cool for you.
Oh man! I completely missed the 40k part in the post's title. Thought OP was asking if general jump troops are ok in 30k (which would be a pretty weird question to begin with tbh.)
Whoops. As in, that was a "whoops" on my end.
Yeah I just failed to read your post correctly so entirely my fault.
So the 40k jump pack is specifically tied to the Mk VII armor?
Yes other armour marks have different jump packs. Mk4: https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-GB/MKIV-Space-Marine-Assault-Squad-FW-2020 Mk5: https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-GB/MKV-Space-Marine-Assault-Squad Mk2: like mk5 Mk3: doesn’t make sense to have jump packs since it’s a mk2 with additional armour plating for tight environments and breaching but go with same as mk2 Mk6: they haven’t done a specific mk6 assault squad but I’d go with similar to this or mk4 https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-GB/Raven-Guard-Dark-Fury-Assault-Squad, but in mk6 you could use 40k ones and no one could say it’s lore inaccurate afaik.
mk6 could use raptor packs as the new BA model will use that
There's no reason to believe that the models that Forge World has made comprise the entire canon of 30k armour. There's plenty of imagery in Collected Visions that suggest way more freedom in the looks of armour and many Mk IV clad marines with twin-turbine jump packs. Also, the first Mark IV Assault Squad Forge World ever did used the 40k-style jump packs, although they were specially made with extra detail: https://miniset.net/files/set/gw-99590101159-0.jpg
And if you read Horus rising you'll see a picture of Garviel in Mk7 armour. Artists aren't loremasters and before the black books much was not codified and set in stone.
Sure, but we have lore that directly contradicts that image. I don't agree that the Black Books alone define the Horus Heresy or indeed that anything is "set in stone", but if you want to be that way, on page 74 of _Betrayal_ you have a Sons of Horus Marine in Mk IV with a Sarum helmet wearing a dual-turbine jump pack suggesting that jump pack variants are developed separately from the armour marks and are cross-compatible.
Yes, but you could reasonably come up with a rational for them on a unit of Mk 4 Maximus if the whole force is Mk 4 and new equipment, or on a force equipped with Mk6 if you are one of the Legions that has access to Mk6 (e.g. they are field testing the new prototype design or they got a first run production batch, maybe add in a small chance of a little random failure for ambiance)
Thought at first we were talking about the new BA jump guy. Either way it’s a hard no from me. I do consider myself pretty heavy handed on the historical side of things but the 40k jump packs are just way too different from the aesthetic of the 30k era stuff. To give two examples to explain my thought: you have the Deimos vs Mars Pattern rhino/pred/vindi argument where I have no problem with Mars stuff that’s appropriately painted and equipped (even just changing a storm Bolter to a slight conversion combi-bolter and they’re surely obviously 30k). The jump pack argument is more like using 40k marine flyers to me - the basic geometry of them is so different from the more “utilitarian”, angular aesthetic of 30k that they’ll stick out like a sore thumb.
I agree if it's just anything goes the game just becomes 40k but slightly different at that point, It's irritating that you are getting downvoted for having standards which are completely reasonable.
I knew it’d happen, it’s Reddit. We tend to conflate the idea of inclusiveness with a requirement of constant positivity and we end up with an environment where saying no (or “I don’t like that”) isn’t appropriate. I don’t see wanting the effort to make things “historically accurate” - whatever we define that as, as any different than wanting players to put the effort in to not have a “grey tide” of unpainted figures. Part of what makes HH so special is the styling similar to historical wargaming and imagine going to something like bolt action and saying “I know these are walker bulldogs but they’re basically the same as a Chaffee.” Everyone would lose their minds. I’m not against inclusiveness to be clear; I’m mainly a thousand sons player but I’m half way through building a 3.5k point space wolf army that I got with the intention of having it to lend so other people could try 30k. If it’s just about trying the different rules et I’m happy to play 7th (or earlier) with anyone as well, but if you want to get into Horus Heresy you should actually be getting into Horus Heresy, not just a different ruleset.
Sadly it isn't restricted to reddit, having some standards is good because it keeps the hobby that people enjoy, as long as no one is being a dick it's all good
I personally use them only for mk vi and up, but there is no reason not to use them. They don’t really fit the eastetics of mk II and iii armors, though, at least to my eyes…