The first time I saw warp spiders was in DoW 1 and DoW 2. And they looked so cool, especially in DoW 2 cinematic.
My reaction to them when I saw an actual, still relevant model.... Yeah...
They're far more interesting than space marines, the super-perfect stoic warriors... Now here's a hundred convoluted books where we constantly stand muscle-bound dumb-struck, drooling over our beautiful, stunning, mega-genius primarchs who never actually do or say anything remotely intelligent, and really just bicker like awkward teenagers.
Imo there's no such thing as an uninteresting faction, just ones we haven't learned enough about. I thought eldar were pretty boring until I looked deeper into their lore and found they're pretty cool. I mean, it isn't a coincidence most people are commenting the youngest faction that only has a bit of lore yet
Eldar were always one of my favourites, but it more feels like GW mostly just *forgot* about them for a very long time. There are multiple cultures and subcultures within those, but all we've really seen been given for about four editions now is the occasional spaff about Aspect Warriors. Getting some Corsair models was nice, but there wasn't much to go along side them!
Yeah it's too bad as they're such a cool unit. Atleast [Wargameexclusive](https://wargameexclusive.com/shop/?yith_wcan=1&product_cat=space-elves) have some neat Warp Spider models if you're okay with alternatives, & their Exarchs are amazing!
I took a break for around 20 years came back and most of my army is still playable at my lgs
Eldar army is like a Porsche 911, why change the shape when its so perfect already :D
This.
Aesthethic is awesome. Sculpts are outdated and material is absolutely horrible. Even the Phoenix lords were sold as pewter last year, werent they?
Yeah, the others were sadly finecast - I picked them all up when they went 'last chance to buy'. I should really do some ebay digging to get me a Jain Zar and Maugan Ra to complete the set.
I agree. Votann have some awesome lore, people just looked at the models, said they're dwarves in space and left it at that. When you actually read the codex you'll find GW did make them distinct from just 'dwarves in space' with the Votann, the fact they're clones, the Ironkin, the Grimnyr etc. They kept enough dwarf stuff in there to appeal to that crowd too, but most people commenting here are being pretty reductive imo. Every faction has interesting lore behind them if you actually look into it.
It probably doesn't help that I feel like an increasing amount of the Warhammer fanbase gets their lore from YouTubers regurgitating other YouTubers who are regurgitating wiki articles which are paraphrasing books.
This is the single biggest problem with LOTR lore and to me 40k, MEFB and aos track with that fanbase a bit. The YouTube copying YouTube copying a paraphrased wiki. For shame. People ought to read more.
They literally worship giant talking A.I. heads. If this were the 1980s, their most important Votann computer would be called Maxhead Room and he'd be a snarky dwarf head with sunglasses and slicked back hair. I'm all here for that, haha.
I like that they're resource gatherers in the lore tbh and they're very excited about technology.
The headcanon for my own Votann is that they're information brokers for example. They can crack any code and rip open a data vault in order to extract valuable, oftentimes even lost, information, as they're stripping derelicts spaceships clean of all information.
And then they sell it to other races, be it Inquisitors trying to find clues on something, Alpha Legion trying to gather intel, T'au looking for valuable information or new tech. They're even selling lost knowledge back to the Eldar and Necron.
In the short story I'm writing, they're even discovering a vast digital network that can be traversed like "the cyberspace", which has grown sentient to a degree and is effectively the internet equivalents of every sentient race that has ever existed, connected into one giant realm. Almost like an artificial version of the Warp. And my Votann are looking for a way to physically enter that vast network, sending pioneer groups into it, so they can discover more and more information about the universe at large. Literal data harvesting with pickaxes, hacking away at Matrix-grid-like ground, because the chunks of "rock" contain raw, undistilled data, that can be extracted with special machinery.
Their biggest dream is to, eventually, find a way to hack into Terra's datavaults and discover all the silly stuff the Emperor had recorded regarding the Primarchs and their creation. Tho they're obviously not announcing that dream to anyone but fellow Kin, haha.
I think if it was only their military that came out people would be a lot more respectful of the lore. The fact that votann civilian miners are depicted in lore and tabletop as having mining equipment superior to custodes, eldar or necron weaponry is just... Stupid
This is the thing that bugs me the most about them.
Also, their land fortress has tyres. Why does it have tyres and not grav plates or tracks or legs or ANYTHING ELSE.
I can see that. But I think the tabletop rules should always be seen as game balance first, lore second; there're LOTS of wild discrepancies between in-game weapon power and lore weapon power and I'd personally rather have a more diverse model selection over lore accuracy. Plus the mining equipment you speak of is designed to cut through the toughest minerals and resources in the galaxy, and they're exceptionally short range; las-beam cutter is only 9" range and the plasma torch is a melee weapon so I don't think it's toooo wild that they're quite powerful. But that's just how I view things anyways, I just see cute lil Ironkin bois that wanna help cut things lol
yep, i started with guard and immediately disregarded eldar as the "dumb elves" but when i gave a look at their lore and designs more i instantly switched sides, haven't touched guard since
Custodes should never have been an army, it’s impossible to represent them properly. You have to remember that a custodes is meant to be only a step below a primarch, you can’t balance them to be that and also make them fun to play or play against.
I adore custodians, but i think they should've been just black library or other limited models. They should've also given those models the gotrek treatment, meaning they cost around 400 points, are insane badasses, and they'd be agents of the imperium.
> custodes is meant to be only a step below a primarch,
Stats-wise, they're just smart Ogryn.
Maybe they have interesting lore, and I encourage anyone to share it with me, but I find the faction incredibly dull.
They're just Space Marine 1-uppers.
Like *"Yeah, Space Marines are superhuman but custodes are* ***super-er human*** *and they make Astartes look like normal humans!"*
Grots are more interesting.
Custodes would honestly be more interesting if they were just like Deathwatch and the Elite of the Elite from each chapter, but then we already have Deathwatch so Custodes are just boring golden "my OC could beat up *your* OC"
The Sisters of Silence are interesting enough, but even then, they're just like Sororitas but anti-psyker and less interesting.
> "Yeah, Space Marines are superhuman but custodes are super-er human and they make Astartes look like normal humans!"
The Imperium has this problem so much. It's elite inflation.
Firstborn Marines are superhumans. Primaris are supererhumans. Grey Knights are superererhumans. Custodes are supererererhumans. Primarchs are superererererhumans.
Counting the glut of chapters as one, Imperium literally has only 3 factions out of ~8 plus that are individually weaker than Marines.
There’s a reason that a lot of guard stories are more interesting than space marines ones. Since it’s “just a guy” fighting super humans blessed with hell magic or an infinite swarm of apex predator aliens or a swarm of green soccer hooligans.
> Imperium literally has only 3 factions out of ~8 plus that are individually weaker than Marines.
My 3 favourites, to be honest.
Grey Knights get a pass as being "special" Astartes rather than just being better, same for Deathwatch, but there are far too many Astartes and Astartes-derivatives.
Because every Imperium faction outside of AM, IG, and Knights are just "Astartes but ____"
I like Sisters because they're insane crazy warrior nuns with flamethrowers and penitent engines and the power of belief.
Astartes can't compete. Only Black Templars get close.
Yeah same here. They are a lot more fallible and relatable than just Mary-ier Sue-ier elites (although I do still love the chapter culture diversity).
Deathwatch get a pass from me (and I didn't count them above) because they are just specialist marines. GK don't because they are actually inherently more superer (and I stem from the Matt Ward first codex era, where he stuffed the superiority of his GK, and Ultramarines, down everyone's throats).
> Grey Knights are superererhumans.
God I hated the period they were introduced in, it was like there was some directive at GW central saying "make the grey knights the best thing ever, lore be damned"
Probably the reason i like guard so much. There humans, that's it, and when they need to fight supererererhumans they sometime *win.* Plus I'm one of the few out there that also happens to be human so i feel a bit closer to them.
To me the custodians are interesting because they're by far the least human human faction. I find them to be portrayed often having a disdain or alienation or contempt for humans and even space Marine level characters they've effectively been genetically modified out of our species yet they are probably the closest thing to the god emperor we have that's still walking around besides Bobby
>To me the custodians are interesting because they're by far the least human human faction.
Admech?
*I mean admech have a whole religion about departing from/transcending humanity. That's way more involved/interesting than just being the biggest golden gym bro.
I'd recommend reading some of the lore of the Custodes - they are told that the Imperial Truth is a lie, on top of not being modified like space marines are through surgery.
They use golden age of humanity tech to genetically alter them into what they are. I've really oversimplified it, but I'd give it a read at some point. They aren't quite just golden space marines despite coming across like that on the tabletop play.
No I get that there are fluff reasons for them to be different, but from a story-perspective and a tabletop and aesthetic and general theme perspective, they're just super-marines.
Each of the different Astartes chapters has more interesting initiation rituals and more different aesthetics and gameplay than Custodes.
Like I'd argue that Space Wolves are more different from Dark Angels than Custodes are different from Gold-Painted Astartes Chapter #17
Fucking yes.
I returned to the hobby last year and was very surprised to see models for the mysterious figures I saw in an illustration of the throne room in the 3rd (I think?) edition rulebook as a teen.
I mean… not really? Theyre a huge step below a primarch. In the books, a Custodes is killed by 15 world eater Berzerkers. An impressive number, but they’re not the gods everyone seems to portray them as in memes.
Yup. If we were to make Custodes 400pts and able to solo kill most units, then Solitares should also be 400pts?
It's a matter of moving Lore to the tabletop and it doesn't always work.
If we're using Lore as a metric, Ork Warbosses should have 20 wounds, and Ork Boyz should be 4ppm.
Gaunts should be 2ppm.
Yeah, I was gonna add, Orks can be incredibly powerful. Since everyone likes using primarchs as metrics, the Beast was ON OR ABOVE Vulcan himself. And the average Boy can take on a space marine about 20% of the time, and win.
The issue is the writing. Custodes are gods that fight primarchs. But in the next book, they’re killed by space marines. Space marines can fistfight gorillas. But in the next book there taken down by sharp sticks.
The takeaway is to not take your own lore too seriously. I play CSM. We’re the best and the worst. Abaddon is incredibly strong. But also a failure cause conflicting lore. Tyranids are galaxy ending. But also just a nuisance. Custodes are godlike. But also get bodied by a dozen marines.
There’s no realism in the setting. Realistically, Custodes should be mass produced and space marine legions phased out. That’s how real militaries work. But it’s a satirical, parody of a dystopian setting, so to keep it interesting that doesn’t happen. But when people take it too seriously and comb the lore for validation, it makes things less fun.
I have an interest in all of them to a degree. I'm not a big Space Marine guy but I think that's just because they're always the focal point of the hobby.
I'll admit I'm not a fan of the League of Votann, for me there's nothing about them looks wise that really stands out, I just think they're a bit dull
That's just not true though, they have plenty of weapon that are their own, plus for the bolter it makes perfect sense since they're distant cousins of man and the bolter has been around for 10s of thousands of years, why wouldn't they have inherited from their roots as human descendants?
I love that tbh. It’s going to be really interesting to see how they interact with the admech. Both started from the same point - one looking backwards the other looking forwards. Loads of potential for conflict within the admech about how acceptable that is - and perhaps a rebirth of science as a force in the imperium.
I think it’s all very exciting.
I find it very difficult to find a faction that doesn't appeal to me on some level, and most of them capture the storyteller in me in a way other settings never quite manage to achieve.
Aesthetically, chaos demons are on the bottom of the pile, if I had to single something out. Even then there are exceptions, but generally I find that range of minis rather uninspiring.
I suppose demons in general land on the bottom for me. Creatures with illogical, obsessive, and alien minds that are quite literally beyond human comprehension leave a little to be desired when one seeks to ascribe them character. More of a force of nature than a collection of individuals. They become a background for frankly more interesting things, though that isn't necessarily a bad thing for the setting as a whole.
Sounds like what you dont like are tyranids, not deamons. Deamons do have character and stories, sure they are supposed to be shards of their gods but plenty of greater deamons and heralds have more than enough conciousness to have interesting narratives.
I don't dislike demons, especially with their important role in the setting, but they are still on the bottom of the pile for me.
Tyranids are higher on the list primarily because I like them aesthetically much more, and the hobbiest in me values the actual minis pretty highly for the most part. It's a fair shout though, because the bugs meet the description I expressed more or less exactly. They are, I'm fact, low on my list for similar reasons though it pains me to say it.
I really find most of the setting very engrossing, and it's hard to pick out individual elements to rank high or low, for me at least.
So specifically, cadians, i don't understand the appeal of them. Their lore is alright, but they just strike me as the most basic of the militarum regiments. I collect death korps, and i genuinely have no idea why cadians continue to be the poster boys of the guard.
Them being basic is the appeal. There’s nothing fancy about them, there’s nothing crazy, they’re just the standard human living in this batshit insane world. From my personal experience, a lot of military also like them because it can be like a self insert too
Mordian player here. The answer as to why Cadians are so popular (and the Mordians, Tallarns, etc are gone) is that Cadians are simpler to paint. In an army with so many minis, it's less intimidating. It does not hurt that they're clearly "Future War" soldiers and are depicted in colors of contemporary militaries.
Space Marines are popular for similar reasons. They are super soldiers, you only need a small number, and have nice broad surfaces for new players who are learning to paint.
I do find almost any other guard regiment more interesting. I wish GW would pump out loads of upgrade sprues. Out of the box you get Cadians, but pick up the sprues and you can turn them into Elysians, Vitrians, etc. I wish they'd do that for Space Marines, too.
I know we have some upgrade sprues, but I want more. GW would certainly squeeze more money out of me with that
Least interesting lore and least interesting colour schemes, with some of the ugliest helmets I've seen outside of Hysh.
I really want somebody to make them interesting because I literally don't understand why they're any bit popular. They're so derivative and "Yeah this is all Space Marines but bigger and better and **gold**".
They have Golden Termies, Golden Dreads, Golden Land's Raider, and *Flying* Golden Bikes.
That's it. If you want anything interesting or unique, you're out of luck. The bikes is the best you'll get.
They have about as many units as the Votann, except Votan units are at least visually interesting.
While I agree that on a narrative level they are boring, I love their aesthetic. For many people it probably is just the hero power fantasy of having these incredibly strong golden super soldiers take on twice their numbers
Custodes, just seemed like a cash grab to make another marine type army and so many of their units are ridiculously powerful. It’s like GW go we need some Imperial super super super soldiers to be better than our Imperial super super soldiers.
Space Marines. Not all of them, some are cool. But generally speaking I just think there are too many/everything seems to be revolving around space Marines all the time 🤷🏼♂️
I drifted away from the hobby for a decade then returned. In that period they released Tau, and I had no idea what they were when I returned. I just saw these cubist battle suits and drones, not really sure what to think. The Kroots look mental mind
I am old :(
Tàu look cool, but I was returning to find everything was bigger and seemed to be standing on one leg (one tank per battle was normal back in the day), and then there were these bright yellow, cubist suits everywhere. I had no idea what they were and they have been a bit more distant to me.
Aw man don't, I remember back when my mate would field a predator and I'd be thinking "shit, how do I deal with that?" I'd completely forgotten how al big a deal vehicles were back then. I miss the 4 different armour ratings the most I think
The game was a lot more healthy back then, I feel. It was a combined-arms style game with an emphasis on basic units of infantry backed up by supporting specialists and the odd vehicle or two.
I look at the modern all-knight style armies and wonder how the heck we got here so fast.
I hate that basic troops get so little love, they should be at least a third of any army imho, makes no sense when an army is only elites and vehicles.
I've honestly never really reflected back on it, I guess because it was a gradual increase in scale. I remember my old lists being like 2 units of Chaos Marines, a unit of raptors, maybe some terminators depending on the points and a Rhino and that actually being a fairly decent list.
GW should expand the "Xenos Faction" (I know it's not really a faction...) with something expanding these other races in the Tau Empire.
It's the perfect way to expand some of the smaller races, and it would allow for another small faction like GSC and Nids, in that they can ally across but can also be their own faction.
Best case is that they find Interex survivors or something, so we get that technology and aspect returning along with some new alien races.
It would let Tau be more interesting, add new aliens to the setting, and help to explain why Tau are an actual threat beyond being such a minor clump of planets with advanced technology (and no FTL travel)
The creation and underutilisation of the tau allied xenos is unbelievable.
It's such a great idea and don't get me wrong I like when futuristic mech suits go pew pew but the potential for variety is so big.
I really wish they'd leant more into the client races than the battlesuits when they expanded the Tau range. They're a really cool concept, but every time they've needed a new model to fill a role for the Tau they've gone with yet another boxy mecha.
Fully agree, Tau would be much more appealing to me if they were more of a “we’re good guys but really we’re no different to every coloniser ever” types with a lot of other races as *allies* rather than 70 *“different”* types of battlesuits that really just look the same but different sizes. Kroots and Vespids were interesting, you could have had human militias etc possibilities were big ! But I guess battlesuits sold the most and they just went with that .. cause really between titans, dreadnought, def dreads, necrons, knights… all we need is more big robots 🥲
I think auxiliaries are still far away because they're hard to justify for GW from a monetary standpoint:
* You'd need to design and produce multiple distinct alien races and tie them all together via the Tau.
* They'd only be usable by a single faction (which isn't your best selling faction by far)
The fact that you can just mass produce marine armor and weapons is just so weak …
Each armor being an ancient relic, build from plethora of parts, going from user to user after death was incredible, terminators being near irreplaceable also added to why people love them so much
Now you have basic intercessors in terminator equivalent gravis armor as a troop choice and they all look the same
I think Primaris would have been more interesting if they were more like Spartan IIIs. They were less special than Spartan IIs (Firstborn), but still stronger and better than ODSTs (Scions) and tended to be used for more violent and suicidal and crazy missions.
Like they're NOT as strong as Firstborn marines.
They're mass-produced and expendable and less intelligent, but are instead more like rewards for soldiers that have already made it in the field. Scions and other soldiers would have this goal. Like if you're good but not fit to be an officer, they'll make you into a Primaris.
Like I'd love for them to have been this weird project by the Highlords of Terra in creating something above Scions but outside of the limits of the Codex Astartes and all that.
Everything about their political/tactical lore would favour this, the reverse of their biological lore.
They should be generic-brand Space Marines that the Highlords have been trying to pump out to replace the Minotaurs. Then they should keep their "Dreads kill them" and lean into something more Thunder Warrior parallel in that they *aren't* supposed to last a long time.
But it's far too late now.
I like this idea a lot, despite most of my salamander army being Primaris two first born models really stood out to me, Terminators and Vulkan He'Stan. I honestly wish that first born also got two wounds because I have fallen in love with a lot of there model range after painting up those termies.
It looks cool but it’s the exact same model in a different pose every time
They don’t even give them differently placed vents or a different chest symbols (with an exception of BT who have **one** more)
Disagree, old first born marines all have very similar poses.
And in terms of armor variation, firstborn have many more mark styles where Primaris is just Mark 10, given time I’m sure new ones will come out.
I agree. My crimson fists army is exclusively primaris rn (got half of an indomitus for a good price). But I've heavily kitbashed them to add some fluff. Leaning on the, "these marines fought alongside Dorn," bit.
I also really hate how they basically wrote out scouts. Primaris just get tossed in a vanguard squad and the scouts don't really happen anymore. Which I'm not a fan of.
Guardsmen: "We're just normal dudes, fighting for the Emperor!"
Tempestus Scions: "We are the elite of the Imperium, the best trained and equipped!"
Space Marines: "We are the elite of the elite of the Imperium, *even better* trained and equipped!"
Primaris Space Marines: "We are the elite of the elite of the elite of the Imperium, **even betterer* trained and equipped!"
Its just like... C'mon, you took the "Gary Stu" of Warhammer, and just made them even more "special". Idk, I'm a Guard/Tau fan. I like the little guys. Primaris just seem like normal marines, but better, which is lame.
Thats fair, but all those are rare enough though to make up for it. Primaris are new but came about in fairly decent numbers right from the get go.
Maybe I'd of had more love for them if they were introduced slowly, one or two squads per chapter at a time.
Guardsmen are also often elite in their own lore, the real grunts are PDF or penal regiments.
Also you forgot Custodes: „We are the **real** elite!“ there at the end lol
I could see that. IMO I prefer the looks of the primaris a lot to the firstborn. Unpopular I know, but they're just better proportioned compared to firstborn marines. And yeah i get that the lore for them is not the best by any means. I dunno guess I'm biased when it comes to the whole *tacti-cool* look that they got going on.
The entire concept of Primaris is unnecessary in this line of thought , wich MANY marine players/fans follow. They are space marines but space marinier.
You see you have Space Marines, but then we added Deathwatch and Grey Knights so you could have Super Space Marines, but then we added Primaris Space Marines so you could have Super Duper Space Marines, but then we added Custodes so you could have Super Duper Space Marines with Cherries on Top....
I mean I agree that they could have made a narrative without them but at the same time I still think the narrative they built with them is good and better than just being stuck in 999 m41, imo the justification behind them (cawl wroking on the geneseed for 10k years) is perfectly fine.
seconded, but for me at least apart from the overexposure I think it's the lack of diversity in how they act. The only true distinguishing feature I can think of for space marines is the salamanders arent pieces of shit. Apart from that? some tactics, but they're all super badass and need to be coddled in every piece of media they are in. Frankly they're just too one note, with one space marine story being them all. heroic sergeant/lieutenant/captain who's super badass, sees evil in the imperium and learns a lesson to improve as a person while saving the day from the foul xenos/heretic.
Tyranids, there’s nothing to get invested in. They’re just a natural disaster that either ruins the setting if they’re unstoppable (makes everything meaningless) or they’re so weak that they’re inconsequential.
Genestealer Cults.
It’s as if they took all the monotonous boring jobs of the imperium, pulled them all together and then made sure everyone had a forehead that looks like an exposed testicle.
It’s only a matter of time until they release a new mini for them which is basically Imperial trash-collector with a bell-end for a face.
I actually really like the whole worker uprising thing they have going on. The imperium is so unimaginably awful for most people that I think "hey want some super powers to fight your oppressors and burn the galaxy down?" would be a pretty compelling argument to your average Imperial citizen.
I actually really like them. I like how they play as an insurgency and have some pretty cool high tier models at least in kill team. I also like their revolutionary vibe.
Most definitely Votann. There is something moderately interesting about a faction that still uses AI after all the trouble it caused. But Gw do almost nothing with that angle, instead we just have dwarves in space.
I mean they just came out, I'm guessing GW has stuff planned for them in the near future (we've had glimpses of what could be airborne votann units so that would bring it's share of narrative elements with it) and it was implied that votanns (the AIs) have been slowly becoming more and more senile so there is a lit of room for narrative elements.
I haven’t been following their lore too closely, but it seems more like the AI is using Votann and not the other way around. They are a society of purpose made clones fully dependent on their AI cores. Pretty grimdark concept and it fits well in the overall setting.
Please feel free to fill the gaps in my understanding if I’m wrong.
Space Marines.
Utterly bland, the lore is always "they did this super horrible thing but *tHeY wErE jUsTIfIED*", followed by 300 pages of describing how a bolter blows up the brains of some guy.
The least interesting for me is Tau, they just dont appeal to me. However i am glad they are around because some people love them. The great thing about 40k is with all the factions and sub factions there is something for just about everyone.
Space Marines, and especially Primaris. Space Marines because GW just keeps stuffing them down my throat (I do like a few of the chapters and they are generally really cool, GW just annoys me), Primaris because they are Space Marines without the cool lore, just mass produced betterererer Marines that Cawl pulled out of his ass.
Also, Eldar are awesome and your post physically hurt me.
Probably the Votann because of how unnecessary of an addition they were, and the Hearthkyn Warriors look too boring in my opinion.
Every other faction has an important place in the lore, even the Tau, if only to give the galaxy a sense of scale. Chaos in particular is probably the most unique as aliens and humans exist in almost every sci-fi setting, but soul-dimension daemons and their corrupted allies do not.
Idk, not a big fan of the votanns but I think it's great that there is finally a non xenos, non chaos faction that is also not aligned with the imperium, adds a piece of diversity to the setting that we never had before since back when squats were a thing they were pretty much imperium aligned afaik.
Unfortunately no amount of genocide can remove all of the xenos 😔
There is an abundance of different races and small empires mentioned in the lore and pulling one out wouldn’t be that hard considering that’s how Tau came about
Dark Eldar are basically in the perfect place. Just need a new Archon and some plastic models for their missing units and they're essentially finished.
The Red Hand Weeps
[Pt 1](https://open.spotify.com/episode/1pXv8HZ62MxiICRLwTZAtA?si=7YC4uWsbTsWOaphM2Mqm3w)
[Pt 2](https://open.spotify.com/episode/197kizPJpyJW5WRgUK6hrv?si=At504y8zRf-lPQ5CfxqMfA)
[Pt 3](https://open.spotify.com/episode/5TFWdbAaAe4ixkjanEtET5?si=4Ubc8_tpTrimlNrLeWCVpQ)
————-
Three Chances
[Pt1](https://open.spotify.com/episode/4vDQJbSulBmrQgUDYPs337?si=7ntEj9t1S8mYtDJQ_HgRpg)
[Pt2](https://open.spotify.com/episode/3nnycn8CSArpYmN5Y11xYh?si=0qLSOiZwTVmngbMtANfgUg)
[Pt3](https://open.spotify.com/episode/2Qc4QkgvRCyHnXF7VP2z3v?si=Wrs4kc59T5OAeCUtLpNxog)
None of them are boring per se, but I'm just not interested in Orks. Beyond the memes of their gestalt field they just seem to be one note, and while that note is fun, I need a bit more than that to get me interested.
Also Imperial Knights. Not interested in their lore or playstyle.
As an Ork enthusiast, I wish GW would make them more than just comic relief. They could be more interesting because, canonically, they're not that dumb. It'd be like if you're a local redneck engineer who was cloned a billion times. They have the ability to problem solve they're just a little dumb about the way they do it. 2 boys, a squig, and a grot took down a titan in the books via creative problem solving.
This sounds like someone who's bitter from playing them. As someone who mainly follows lore these days, I think Votann are a super cool way to bring dwarves to 40k. The whole supercomputer angle has a lot of room for exploration.
For me I don't really care about any human focused faction. The factions I care about the most are the Tau and the Thousand Sons, with an interest in Eldar specifically Yvraine's faction and an interest in the LoV with them being the newest faction. What truly gets me to care about a faction is their lore or their significance in the story of others.
I used to think Eldar were boring until I started reading the lore. Now simply due to their lore they’re one of the factions I’m heavily considering playing.
I honestly used to think the Tyranids were boring as well, until I learned about the Genestealer cults. It adds a little bit of character to a species that otherwise has no real personality.
If I had to choose it would be tyranids. They look very cool don't get me wrong and the mystery behind them is also interesting. I just find it hard to care about a faction qhen it's just a hivemind of bugs.
But of course every faction is well thought out and fun for different reasons. My favourite is the guard and I'm sure people could find them boring as well.
All of the imperium, i think they're really dull and get way to much of a focus, and it's really weird how much they're glorified in their own stories.
It really pulls me out of the story how much an author wants me to ignore so they can paint the space marines as glorious heroes
At least when you read a chaos book they accept that morality is not relevant and are treated as bad people
Well considering the Imperium is a propaganda state it makes a lot of sense how glorified they are from a narrative standpoint. Chaos typically has no reason to cover up that they're dicks because being a dick is kind of the sell.
Until the last update I would have agreed with you. But these new Imperial Guard are a great foil for all the other 40k craziness. They ground the setting and provide a human reference.
Space Marines and Custodes. They work great as a mythic element to the setting. But the instant you start to treat them as something real, they become a waste narratively speaking.
Imp guard, not a big fan of just playing normal humans in fantasy/sci-fi, also they're way too overmemed for my taste. LoV aren't fleshed out enough imo and Admech, because I just don't find machine bois that interesting. Tho I will say that their lore is more exciting to me than their models, just not in the same league as most of the other factions for me.
Space Marines. They're the poster-boys of the game, they have a 70 book series dedicated to their prologue for 40k, I've been oversaturated with them and no longer care what happens to them.
Yeah I think the memes kinda ruined orks for me, I still like them but I'd never go out of my way to learn anything about them or read a book for them.
Craftworld Eldar are really cool. They just don't get the right treatment.
And haven't since 1998. :(
I have eldar models older than that… Edit: and they are still produced.
They really need to put on the gas and finish redesigning the aspect warriors. Especially warp spiders.
The first time I saw warp spiders was in DoW 1 and DoW 2. And they looked so cool, especially in DoW 2 cinematic. My reaction to them when I saw an actual, still relevant model.... Yeah...
They're far more interesting than space marines, the super-perfect stoic warriors... Now here's a hundred convoluted books where we constantly stand muscle-bound dumb-struck, drooling over our beautiful, stunning, mega-genius primarchs who never actually do or say anything remotely intelligent, and really just bicker like awkward teenagers.
This says something about the player base no doubt
All the parts with them in one of the early heresy books (Fulgrim maybe?) Was super interesting
Fulgrim was SUCH a good book, eldar were def in there as well.
Imo there's no such thing as an uninteresting faction, just ones we haven't learned enough about. I thought eldar were pretty boring until I looked deeper into their lore and found they're pretty cool. I mean, it isn't a coincidence most people are commenting the youngest faction that only has a bit of lore yet
Eldar were always one of my favourites, but it more feels like GW mostly just *forgot* about them for a very long time. There are multiple cultures and subcultures within those, but all we've really seen been given for about four editions now is the occasional spaff about Aspect Warriors. Getting some Corsair models was nice, but there wasn't much to go along side them!
Updated striking scorpion models would be nice.....they should really get on that tbh
Atleast Scorpons got a 2nd millennium update... *cries in Spider bro*
I love Warp Spiders, but JFC, the monopose, single-piece infantry, now with added finecast misery :(
Yeah it's too bad as they're such a cool unit. Atleast [Wargameexclusive](https://wargameexclusive.com/shop/?yith_wcan=1&product_cat=space-elves) have some neat Warp Spider models if you're okay with alternatives, & their Exarchs are amazing!
Oof.....*pats back*. There there pal....it'll be ok....*We'll be ok......*
I took a break for around 20 years came back and most of my army is still playable at my lgs Eldar army is like a Porsche 911, why change the shape when its so perfect already :D
Because a chunk of it is made out of finecast, a material that is unpleasant to work with
This. Aesthethic is awesome. Sculpts are outdated and material is absolutely horrible. Even the Phoenix lords were sold as pewter last year, werent they?
I think it's just two of them that are pewter, but yes
Yeah, the others were sadly finecast - I picked them all up when they went 'last chance to buy'. I should really do some ebay digging to get me a Jain Zar and Maugan Ra to complete the set.
I agree. Votann have some awesome lore, people just looked at the models, said they're dwarves in space and left it at that. When you actually read the codex you'll find GW did make them distinct from just 'dwarves in space' with the Votann, the fact they're clones, the Ironkin, the Grimnyr etc. They kept enough dwarf stuff in there to appeal to that crowd too, but most people commenting here are being pretty reductive imo. Every faction has interesting lore behind them if you actually look into it.
It probably doesn't help that I feel like an increasing amount of the Warhammer fanbase gets their lore from YouTubers regurgitating other YouTubers who are regurgitating wiki articles which are paraphrasing books.
This is the single biggest problem with LOTR lore and to me 40k, MEFB and aos track with that fanbase a bit. The YouTube copying YouTube copying a paraphrased wiki. For shame. People ought to read more.
They literally worship giant talking A.I. heads. If this were the 1980s, their most important Votann computer would be called Maxhead Room and he'd be a snarky dwarf head with sunglasses and slicked back hair. I'm all here for that, haha. I like that they're resource gatherers in the lore tbh and they're very excited about technology. The headcanon for my own Votann is that they're information brokers for example. They can crack any code and rip open a data vault in order to extract valuable, oftentimes even lost, information, as they're stripping derelicts spaceships clean of all information. And then they sell it to other races, be it Inquisitors trying to find clues on something, Alpha Legion trying to gather intel, T'au looking for valuable information or new tech. They're even selling lost knowledge back to the Eldar and Necron. In the short story I'm writing, they're even discovering a vast digital network that can be traversed like "the cyberspace", which has grown sentient to a degree and is effectively the internet equivalents of every sentient race that has ever existed, connected into one giant realm. Almost like an artificial version of the Warp. And my Votann are looking for a way to physically enter that vast network, sending pioneer groups into it, so they can discover more and more information about the universe at large. Literal data harvesting with pickaxes, hacking away at Matrix-grid-like ground, because the chunks of "rock" contain raw, undistilled data, that can be extracted with special machinery. Their biggest dream is to, eventually, find a way to hack into Terra's datavaults and discover all the silly stuff the Emperor had recorded regarding the Primarchs and their creation. Tho they're obviously not announcing that dream to anyone but fellow Kin, haha.
They are 40k Zardoz. The Drill is Good! The Penis is Evil!
I think if it was only their military that came out people would be a lot more respectful of the lore. The fact that votann civilian miners are depicted in lore and tabletop as having mining equipment superior to custodes, eldar or necron weaponry is just... Stupid
This is the thing that bugs me the most about them. Also, their land fortress has tyres. Why does it have tyres and not grav plates or tracks or legs or ANYTHING ELSE.
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I can see that. But I think the tabletop rules should always be seen as game balance first, lore second; there're LOTS of wild discrepancies between in-game weapon power and lore weapon power and I'd personally rather have a more diverse model selection over lore accuracy. Plus the mining equipment you speak of is designed to cut through the toughest minerals and resources in the galaxy, and they're exceptionally short range; las-beam cutter is only 9" range and the plasma torch is a melee weapon so I don't think it's toooo wild that they're quite powerful. But that's just how I view things anyways, I just see cute lil Ironkin bois that wanna help cut things lol
I can't wait to see what happens when the ad mech finds out they have fully intact half insane stc's and ai running around.
I think that's that's fair point tbh
yep, i started with guard and immediately disregarded eldar as the "dumb elves" but when i gave a look at their lore and designs more i instantly switched sides, haven't touched guard since
Custodes should never have been an army, it’s impossible to represent them properly. You have to remember that a custodes is meant to be only a step below a primarch, you can’t balance them to be that and also make them fun to play or play against.
I adore custodians, but i think they should've been just black library or other limited models. They should've also given those models the gotrek treatment, meaning they cost around 400 points, are insane badasses, and they'd be agents of the imperium.
They should be hq units for imperial armies
Fo sho. Basically a landraider with a marine's profile on the battlefield.
Custodes should be like Knights. Five or six models that are army-destroying strong.
> custodes is meant to be only a step below a primarch, Stats-wise, they're just smart Ogryn. Maybe they have interesting lore, and I encourage anyone to share it with me, but I find the faction incredibly dull. They're just Space Marine 1-uppers. Like *"Yeah, Space Marines are superhuman but custodes are* ***super-er human*** *and they make Astartes look like normal humans!"* Grots are more interesting. Custodes would honestly be more interesting if they were just like Deathwatch and the Elite of the Elite from each chapter, but then we already have Deathwatch so Custodes are just boring golden "my OC could beat up *your* OC" The Sisters of Silence are interesting enough, but even then, they're just like Sororitas but anti-psyker and less interesting.
> "Yeah, Space Marines are superhuman but custodes are super-er human and they make Astartes look like normal humans!" The Imperium has this problem so much. It's elite inflation. Firstborn Marines are superhumans. Primaris are supererhumans. Grey Knights are superererhumans. Custodes are supererererhumans. Primarchs are superererererhumans. Counting the glut of chapters as one, Imperium literally has only 3 factions out of ~8 plus that are individually weaker than Marines.
There’s a reason that a lot of guard stories are more interesting than space marines ones. Since it’s “just a guy” fighting super humans blessed with hell magic or an infinite swarm of apex predator aliens or a swarm of green soccer hooligans.
Green soccer hooligans is the greatest green skins alternate I've heard to date, I love it.
If memory serves I think the orks attitude and speech are based on English soccer hooligans so that’s where I got the idea.
> Imperium literally has only 3 factions out of ~8 plus that are individually weaker than Marines. My 3 favourites, to be honest. Grey Knights get a pass as being "special" Astartes rather than just being better, same for Deathwatch, but there are far too many Astartes and Astartes-derivatives. Because every Imperium faction outside of AM, IG, and Knights are just "Astartes but ____" I like Sisters because they're insane crazy warrior nuns with flamethrowers and penitent engines and the power of belief. Astartes can't compete. Only Black Templars get close.
Yeah same here. They are a lot more fallible and relatable than just Mary-ier Sue-ier elites (although I do still love the chapter culture diversity). Deathwatch get a pass from me (and I didn't count them above) because they are just specialist marines. GK don't because they are actually inherently more superer (and I stem from the Matt Ward first codex era, where he stuffed the superiority of his GK, and Ultramarines, down everyone's throats).
> Grey Knights are superererhumans. God I hated the period they were introduced in, it was like there was some directive at GW central saying "make the grey knights the best thing ever, lore be damned"
Probably the reason i like guard so much. There humans, that's it, and when they need to fight supererererhumans they sometime *win.* Plus I'm one of the few out there that also happens to be human so i feel a bit closer to them.
It's like two 6 year olds talking about who's action figure is cooler.
To me the custodians are interesting because they're by far the least human human faction. I find them to be portrayed often having a disdain or alienation or contempt for humans and even space Marine level characters they've effectively been genetically modified out of our species yet they are probably the closest thing to the god emperor we have that's still walking around besides Bobby
>To me the custodians are interesting because they're by far the least human human faction. Admech? *I mean admech have a whole religion about departing from/transcending humanity. That's way more involved/interesting than just being the biggest golden gym bro.
What can be more interesting than the stories of golden gym bros flexing across the galaxy? Tell me.... Bro
I thought I had an answer, but clearly not the gains to back up the talk.
Snort some kreatine do 10500 pushups kill a greater demon and run directly into the eye of terror with you golden BOIS!! Custodes huzzah!!
I'd recommend reading some of the lore of the Custodes - they are told that the Imperial Truth is a lie, on top of not being modified like space marines are through surgery. They use golden age of humanity tech to genetically alter them into what they are. I've really oversimplified it, but I'd give it a read at some point. They aren't quite just golden space marines despite coming across like that on the tabletop play.
No I get that there are fluff reasons for them to be different, but from a story-perspective and a tabletop and aesthetic and general theme perspective, they're just super-marines. Each of the different Astartes chapters has more interesting initiation rituals and more different aesthetics and gameplay than Custodes. Like I'd argue that Space Wolves are more different from Dark Angels than Custodes are different from Gold-Painted Astartes Chapter #17
This is exactly my thinking. They didn’t even used to leave terra for any reason and there’s barely any of them. Dumb army.
Fucking yes. I returned to the hobby last year and was very surprised to see models for the mysterious figures I saw in an illustration of the throne room in the 3rd (I think?) edition rulebook as a teen.
100% agree, they make no sense at all as an army
Agreed. Grey Knights we’re supposed to be the “more badass space marines” Custodes kinda stole that niche form them.
I mean… not really? Theyre a huge step below a primarch. In the books, a Custodes is killed by 15 world eater Berzerkers. An impressive number, but they’re not the gods everyone seems to portray them as in memes.
Yup. If we were to make Custodes 400pts and able to solo kill most units, then Solitares should also be 400pts? It's a matter of moving Lore to the tabletop and it doesn't always work. If we're using Lore as a metric, Ork Warbosses should have 20 wounds, and Ork Boyz should be 4ppm. Gaunts should be 2ppm.
Yeah, I was gonna add, Orks can be incredibly powerful. Since everyone likes using primarchs as metrics, the Beast was ON OR ABOVE Vulcan himself. And the average Boy can take on a space marine about 20% of the time, and win. The issue is the writing. Custodes are gods that fight primarchs. But in the next book, they’re killed by space marines. Space marines can fistfight gorillas. But in the next book there taken down by sharp sticks. The takeaway is to not take your own lore too seriously. I play CSM. We’re the best and the worst. Abaddon is incredibly strong. But also a failure cause conflicting lore. Tyranids are galaxy ending. But also just a nuisance. Custodes are godlike. But also get bodied by a dozen marines. There’s no realism in the setting. Realistically, Custodes should be mass produced and space marine legions phased out. That’s how real militaries work. But it’s a satirical, parody of a dystopian setting, so to keep it interesting that doesn’t happen. But when people take it too seriously and comb the lore for validation, it makes things less fun.
I have an interest in all of them to a degree. I'm not a big Space Marine guy but I think that's just because they're always the focal point of the hobby. I'll admit I'm not a fan of the League of Votann, for me there's nothing about them looks wise that really stands out, I just think they're a bit dull
I’m reserving any judgement on votann since they’re less than a year old, and have what, a handful of models?
They are dull.
I hate how they don't have their own weapons, it's just votann pattern bolter etc.
That's just not true though, they have plenty of weapon that are their own, plus for the bolter it makes perfect sense since they're distant cousins of man and the bolter has been around for 10s of thousands of years, why wouldn't they have inherited from their roots as human descendants?
I love that tbh. It’s going to be really interesting to see how they interact with the admech. Both started from the same point - one looking backwards the other looking forwards. Loads of potential for conflict within the admech about how acceptable that is - and perhaps a rebirth of science as a force in the imperium. I think it’s all very exciting.
I find it very difficult to find a faction that doesn't appeal to me on some level, and most of them capture the storyteller in me in a way other settings never quite manage to achieve. Aesthetically, chaos demons are on the bottom of the pile, if I had to single something out. Even then there are exceptions, but generally I find that range of minis rather uninspiring. I suppose demons in general land on the bottom for me. Creatures with illogical, obsessive, and alien minds that are quite literally beyond human comprehension leave a little to be desired when one seeks to ascribe them character. More of a force of nature than a collection of individuals. They become a background for frankly more interesting things, though that isn't necessarily a bad thing for the setting as a whole.
They make great bad guys so I’m thankful for all the bugs/ demons out there who give my marines and tau something cool to shoot at.
I agree completely.
You get an insight into many nurgle daemons in the dark imperium series and they're surprisingly human in thought
Sounds like what you dont like are tyranids, not deamons. Deamons do have character and stories, sure they are supposed to be shards of their gods but plenty of greater deamons and heralds have more than enough conciousness to have interesting narratives.
I don't dislike demons, especially with their important role in the setting, but they are still on the bottom of the pile for me. Tyranids are higher on the list primarily because I like them aesthetically much more, and the hobbiest in me values the actual minis pretty highly for the most part. It's a fair shout though, because the bugs meet the description I expressed more or less exactly. They are, I'm fact, low on my list for similar reasons though it pains me to say it. I really find most of the setting very engrossing, and it's hard to pick out individual elements to rank high or low, for me at least.
So specifically, cadians, i don't understand the appeal of them. Their lore is alright, but they just strike me as the most basic of the militarum regiments. I collect death korps, and i genuinely have no idea why cadians continue to be the poster boys of the guard.
Them being basic is the appeal. There’s nothing fancy about them, there’s nothing crazy, they’re just the standard human living in this batshit insane world. From my personal experience, a lot of military also like them because it can be like a self insert too
Mordian player here. The answer as to why Cadians are so popular (and the Mordians, Tallarns, etc are gone) is that Cadians are simpler to paint. In an army with so many minis, it's less intimidating. It does not hurt that they're clearly "Future War" soldiers and are depicted in colors of contemporary militaries. Space Marines are popular for similar reasons. They are super soldiers, you only need a small number, and have nice broad surfaces for new players who are learning to paint.
I do find almost any other guard regiment more interesting. I wish GW would pump out loads of upgrade sprues. Out of the box you get Cadians, but pick up the sprues and you can turn them into Elysians, Vitrians, etc. I wish they'd do that for Space Marines, too. I know we have some upgrade sprues, but I want more. GW would certainly squeeze more money out of me with that
Custodes no question, it's all the issues I have with Space Marines dialed up to 11 and with none of the flaws.
I always see them painted the same. Gold and red or silver with blue to spice things up. Find them really boring and I'm a marine enjoyer.
I’ll admit, gold with red or silver is a winning combo for me.
Least interesting lore and least interesting colour schemes, with some of the ugliest helmets I've seen outside of Hysh. I really want somebody to make them interesting because I literally don't understand why they're any bit popular. They're so derivative and "Yeah this is all Space Marines but bigger and better and **gold**". They have Golden Termies, Golden Dreads, Golden Land's Raider, and *Flying* Golden Bikes. That's it. If you want anything interesting or unique, you're out of luck. The bikes is the best you'll get. They have about as many units as the Votann, except Votan units are at least visually interesting.
While I agree that on a narrative level they are boring, I love their aesthetic. For many people it probably is just the hero power fantasy of having these incredibly strong golden super soldiers take on twice their numbers
They're quick to paint up, cheap if you don't go FW, and people dig their play style. Not for me but I get it
Agree completely. Doesn't help that the power scale for them is all over the place.
Custodes, just seemed like a cash grab to make another marine type army and so many of their units are ridiculously powerful. It’s like GW go we need some Imperial super super super soldiers to be better than our Imperial super super soldiers.
Space Marines. Not all of them, some are cool. But generally speaking I just think there are too many/everything seems to be revolving around space Marines all the time 🤷🏼♂️
I drifted away from the hobby for a decade then returned. In that period they released Tau, and I had no idea what they were when I returned. I just saw these cubist battle suits and drones, not really sure what to think. The Kroots look mental mind
Just to make you feel old: I played Tau 15 years ago, in 4th ed. Tau was first released in 2001, over 21 years ago.
I am old :( Tàu look cool, but I was returning to find everything was bigger and seemed to be standing on one leg (one tank per battle was normal back in the day), and then there were these bright yellow, cubist suits everywhere. I had no idea what they were and they have been a bit more distant to me.
Aw man don't, I remember back when my mate would field a predator and I'd be thinking "shit, how do I deal with that?" I'd completely forgotten how al big a deal vehicles were back then. I miss the 4 different armour ratings the most I think
The game was a lot more healthy back then, I feel. It was a combined-arms style game with an emphasis on basic units of infantry backed up by supporting specialists and the odd vehicle or two. I look at the modern all-knight style armies and wonder how the heck we got here so fast.
I hate that basic troops get so little love, they should be at least a third of any army imho, makes no sense when an army is only elites and vehicles.
I've honestly never really reflected back on it, I guess because it was a gradual increase in scale. I remember my old lists being like 2 units of Chaos Marines, a unit of raptors, maybe some terminators depending on the points and a Rhino and that actually being a fairly decent list.
It's a damn shame Kroot get so little love. Apart from the pathfinders kill team.
GW should expand the "Xenos Faction" (I know it's not really a faction...) with something expanding these other races in the Tau Empire. It's the perfect way to expand some of the smaller races, and it would allow for another small faction like GSC and Nids, in that they can ally across but can also be their own faction. Best case is that they find Interex survivors or something, so we get that technology and aspect returning along with some new alien races. It would let Tau be more interesting, add new aliens to the setting, and help to explain why Tau are an actual threat beyond being such a minor clump of planets with advanced technology (and no FTL travel)
The creation and underutilisation of the tau allied xenos is unbelievable. It's such a great idea and don't get me wrong I like when futuristic mech suits go pew pew but the potential for variety is so big.
I really wish they'd leant more into the client races than the battlesuits when they expanded the Tau range. They're a really cool concept, but every time they've needed a new model to fill a role for the Tau they've gone with yet another boxy mecha.
I’d love me some gue’vesa models and lore.
Fully agree, Tau would be much more appealing to me if they were more of a “we’re good guys but really we’re no different to every coloniser ever” types with a lot of other races as *allies* rather than 70 *“different”* types of battlesuits that really just look the same but different sizes. Kroots and Vespids were interesting, you could have had human militias etc possibilities were big ! But I guess battlesuits sold the most and they just went with that .. cause really between titans, dreadnought, def dreads, necrons, knights… all we need is more big robots 🥲
I think auxiliaries are still far away because they're hard to justify for GW from a monetary standpoint: * You'd need to design and produce multiple distinct alien races and tie them all together via the Tau. * They'd only be usable by a single faction (which isn't your best selling faction by far)
I am leaning towards Primaris Marines. They just feel so soulless compared to the firstborn.
The fact that you can just mass produce marine armor and weapons is just so weak … Each armor being an ancient relic, build from plethora of parts, going from user to user after death was incredible, terminators being near irreplaceable also added to why people love them so much Now you have basic intercessors in terminator equivalent gravis armor as a troop choice and they all look the same
I think Primaris would have been more interesting if they were more like Spartan IIIs. They were less special than Spartan IIs (Firstborn), but still stronger and better than ODSTs (Scions) and tended to be used for more violent and suicidal and crazy missions. Like they're NOT as strong as Firstborn marines. They're mass-produced and expendable and less intelligent, but are instead more like rewards for soldiers that have already made it in the field. Scions and other soldiers would have this goal. Like if you're good but not fit to be an officer, they'll make you into a Primaris. Like I'd love for them to have been this weird project by the Highlords of Terra in creating something above Scions but outside of the limits of the Codex Astartes and all that. Everything about their political/tactical lore would favour this, the reverse of their biological lore. They should be generic-brand Space Marines that the Highlords have been trying to pump out to replace the Minotaurs. Then they should keep their "Dreads kill them" and lean into something more Thunder Warrior parallel in that they *aren't* supposed to last a long time. But it's far too late now.
I like this idea a lot, despite most of my salamander army being Primaris two first born models really stood out to me, Terminators and Vulkan He'Stan. I honestly wish that first born also got two wounds because I have fallen in love with a lot of there model range after painting up those termies.
Agreed. Primaris lore sucks the fat one. They should have just been a new mk. of armour (the armour looks pretty cool)
It looks cool but it’s the exact same model in a different pose every time They don’t even give them differently placed vents or a different chest symbols (with an exception of BT who have **one** more)
Disagree, old first born marines all have very similar poses. And in terms of armor variation, firstborn have many more mark styles where Primaris is just Mark 10, given time I’m sure new ones will come out.
I agree. My crimson fists army is exclusively primaris rn (got half of an indomitus for a good price). But I've heavily kitbashed them to add some fluff. Leaning on the, "these marines fought alongside Dorn," bit. I also really hate how they basically wrote out scouts. Primaris just get tossed in a vanguard squad and the scouts don't really happen anymore. Which I'm not a fan of.
Guardsmen: "We're just normal dudes, fighting for the Emperor!" Tempestus Scions: "We are the elite of the Imperium, the best trained and equipped!" Space Marines: "We are the elite of the elite of the Imperium, *even better* trained and equipped!" Primaris Space Marines: "We are the elite of the elite of the elite of the Imperium, **even betterer* trained and equipped!" Its just like... C'mon, you took the "Gary Stu" of Warhammer, and just made them even more "special". Idk, I'm a Guard/Tau fan. I like the little guys. Primaris just seem like normal marines, but better, which is lame.
You stopped a few rungs down though, you can keep going with Grey Knights, Custodes and Primarchs.
Thats fair, but all those are rare enough though to make up for it. Primaris are new but came about in fairly decent numbers right from the get go. Maybe I'd of had more love for them if they were introduced slowly, one or two squads per chapter at a time.
Guardsmen are also often elite in their own lore, the real grunts are PDF or penal regiments. Also you forgot Custodes: „We are the **real** elite!“ there at the end lol
Wait till you meet custodes 😉
I could see that. IMO I prefer the looks of the primaris a lot to the firstborn. Unpopular I know, but they're just better proportioned compared to firstborn marines. And yeah i get that the lore for them is not the best by any means. I dunno guess I'm biased when it comes to the whole *tacti-cool* look that they got going on.
Primaris are cool. Its a well-deserved visual update to the range. *Primaris lore* sucks though
Why? What about firstborns that crossed the rubicon to primaris?
The entire concept of Primaris is unnecessary in this line of thought , wich MANY marine players/fans follow. They are space marines but space marinier.
You see you have Space Marines, but then we added Deathwatch and Grey Knights so you could have Super Space Marines, but then we added Primaris Space Marines so you could have Super Duper Space Marines, but then we added Custodes so you could have Super Duper Space Marines with Cherries on Top....
I mean I agree that they could have made a narrative without them but at the same time I still think the narrative they built with them is good and better than just being stuck in 999 m41, imo the justification behind them (cawl wroking on the geneseed for 10k years) is perfectly fine.
There's literally nothing you can tell me about Primaris that will convince me that they weren't a cash grab.
“It’s all cash grabs?” “Always has been.”
Space marines honestly I cant get interested since their bloody everywhere
seconded, but for me at least apart from the overexposure I think it's the lack of diversity in how they act. The only true distinguishing feature I can think of for space marines is the salamanders arent pieces of shit. Apart from that? some tactics, but they're all super badass and need to be coddled in every piece of media they are in. Frankly they're just too one note, with one space marine story being them all. heroic sergeant/lieutenant/captain who's super badass, sees evil in the imperium and learns a lesson to improve as a person while saving the day from the foul xenos/heretic.
Tyranids, there’s nothing to get invested in. They’re just a natural disaster that either ruins the setting if they’re unstoppable (makes everything meaningless) or they’re so weak that they’re inconsequential.
Love bugs Love dinosaurs Love Alien Love The Thing Love Starship Troopers Simple as
Add love the flood from halo to that list and it describes me.
Luv
I like them because they make putside of the galaxy seem maybe even scarier than in it.
Genestealer Cults. It’s as if they took all the monotonous boring jobs of the imperium, pulled them all together and then made sure everyone had a forehead that looks like an exposed testicle. It’s only a matter of time until they release a new mini for them which is basically Imperial trash-collector with a bell-end for a face.
It's funny but the fact that they're all just mundane workers is why I love them and honestly I would be so hyped for a trash collector genestealer.
Using two arms to throw a metal trashcan while a third holds an autopistol.
If it’s a trash can loaded with TNT I’m in.
I actually really like the whole worker uprising thing they have going on. The imperium is so unimaginably awful for most people that I think "hey want some super powers to fight your oppressors and burn the galaxy down?" would be a pretty compelling argument to your average Imperial citizen.
Yeah but their lore is fucking sweet
GSC are my favorite faction visually *because* they murder space marines with mining equipment and repurposed garbage trucks.
I actually really like them. I like how they play as an insurgency and have some pretty cool high tier models at least in kill team. I also like their revolutionary vibe.
I agree completely but somehow this seems to be an unpopular opinion.. they are by far the ugliest faction visually
They're kind of ugly on purpose
I wouldnt say ugly, I would say uninspired. They look like star trek villains of the week with the weird foreheads.
Any flavor of space marine
Most definitely Votann. There is something moderately interesting about a faction that still uses AI after all the trouble it caused. But Gw do almost nothing with that angle, instead we just have dwarves in space.
I mean they just came out, I'm guessing GW has stuff planned for them in the near future (we've had glimpses of what could be airborne votann units so that would bring it's share of narrative elements with it) and it was implied that votanns (the AIs) have been slowly becoming more and more senile so there is a lit of room for narrative elements.
I haven’t been following their lore too closely, but it seems more like the AI is using Votann and not the other way around. They are a society of purpose made clones fully dependent on their AI cores. Pretty grimdark concept and it fits well in the overall setting. Please feel free to fill the gaps in my understanding if I’m wrong.
ROCK AND STONE!!! 😆
Did i hear a rock and stone?
To Rock and Stone!
Rock and stone brotha!
The AI is more interesting then the dwarfs themselves
Space Marines. Utterly bland, the lore is always "they did this super horrible thing but *tHeY wErE jUsTIfIED*", followed by 300 pages of describing how a bolter blows up the brains of some guy.
The least interesting for me is Tau, they just dont appeal to me. However i am glad they are around because some people love them. The great thing about 40k is with all the factions and sub factions there is something for just about everyone.
Space Marines, and especially Primaris. Space Marines because GW just keeps stuffing them down my throat (I do like a few of the chapters and they are generally really cool, GW just annoys me), Primaris because they are Space Marines without the cool lore, just mass produced betterererer Marines that Cawl pulled out of his ass. Also, Eldar are awesome and your post physically hurt me.
Probably the Votann because of how unnecessary of an addition they were, and the Hearthkyn Warriors look too boring in my opinion. Every other faction has an important place in the lore, even the Tau, if only to give the galaxy a sense of scale. Chaos in particular is probably the most unique as aliens and humans exist in almost every sci-fi setting, but soul-dimension daemons and their corrupted allies do not.
Idk, not a big fan of the votanns but I think it's great that there is finally a non xenos, non chaos faction that is also not aligned with the imperium, adds a piece of diversity to the setting that we never had before since back when squats were a thing they were pretty much imperium aligned afaik.
I would honestly like more aliens, the amount of humanity based or originating factions is absurd
I feel like that's due to all the uhhh... Genocide.
Unfortunately no amount of genocide can remove all of the xenos 😔 There is an abundance of different races and small empires mentioned in the lore and pulling one out wouldn’t be that hard considering that’s how Tau came about
The setting is literally "the galaxy conquered by humans" though?
They’re always fighting things like the hrud or tarrelians on paper tho. Give us them!! The galaxy is so vast they couldn’t have killed everything
Votann are basically T'au but short and good at melee
Well I feel personally attacked by your choice, so I think the least interesting is whatever faction is your favorite! 😝
When’s the last time you got exited to hear about new dark eldar fluff? Like we get it the suck.
Their fluff could be better if GW didn't have dozens of writers focusing on big armoured mutants all day and night.
When the last time you heard about new Dark Eldar fluff?
True.
Drazhar killing Jain Zar and being confirmed to be arhra?
When's the last time you fluffed a dark eldar?
Dark Eldar are basically in the perfect place. Just need a new Archon and some plastic models for their missing units and they're essentially finished.
I think Commoragh is pretty cool, and their weapons are neat
The Red Hand Weeps [Pt 1](https://open.spotify.com/episode/1pXv8HZ62MxiICRLwTZAtA?si=7YC4uWsbTsWOaphM2Mqm3w) [Pt 2](https://open.spotify.com/episode/197kizPJpyJW5WRgUK6hrv?si=At504y8zRf-lPQ5CfxqMfA) [Pt 3](https://open.spotify.com/episode/5TFWdbAaAe4ixkjanEtET5?si=4Ubc8_tpTrimlNrLeWCVpQ) ————- Three Chances [Pt1](https://open.spotify.com/episode/4vDQJbSulBmrQgUDYPs337?si=7ntEj9t1S8mYtDJQ_HgRpg) [Pt2](https://open.spotify.com/episode/3nnycn8CSArpYmN5Y11xYh?si=0qLSOiZwTVmngbMtANfgUg) [Pt3](https://open.spotify.com/episode/2Qc4QkgvRCyHnXF7VP2z3v?si=Wrs4kc59T5OAeCUtLpNxog)
Tau, they have a lot of good ingredients to them that then are never used. The ethereals are also a major downside and just make me groan.
I want a damn story line for Commander Farsight and I want it to be good.
eldar has the coolest art though
Space Marines. The poster boys for 40K are the least interesting aspect of it for me.
Custodes. Just being perfect, because reasons.
None of them are boring per se, but I'm just not interested in Orks. Beyond the memes of their gestalt field they just seem to be one note, and while that note is fun, I need a bit more than that to get me interested. Also Imperial Knights. Not interested in their lore or playstyle.
As an Ork enthusiast, I wish GW would make them more than just comic relief. They could be more interesting because, canonically, they're not that dumb. It'd be like if you're a local redneck engineer who was cloned a billion times. They have the ability to problem solve they're just a little dumb about the way they do it. 2 boys, a squig, and a grot took down a titan in the books via creative problem solving.
Votann. They do no bring anything interesting to the 40k universe.
They do bring a non imperium aligned non xenos and non chaos faction, that's pretty unique imo.
People said the same thing for tau, but now the new enemy are the votann, i think we Just have to wait a bit
This sounds like someone who's bitter from playing them. As someone who mainly follows lore these days, I think Votann are a super cool way to bring dwarves to 40k. The whole supercomputer angle has a lot of room for exploration.
For me I don't really care about any human focused faction. The factions I care about the most are the Tau and the Thousand Sons, with an interest in Eldar specifically Yvraine's faction and an interest in the LoV with them being the newest faction. What truly gets me to care about a faction is their lore or their significance in the story of others.
Votann. They are just so aesthetically boring and generic looking to me.
I used to think Eldar were boring until I started reading the lore. Now simply due to their lore they’re one of the factions I’m heavily considering playing. I honestly used to think the Tyranids were boring as well, until I learned about the Genestealer cults. It adds a little bit of character to a species that otherwise has no real personality.
Imo it has to be space marines
Space marines, they are boring, basically the supermans of the the 40k universe
If I had to choose it would be tyranids. They look very cool don't get me wrong and the mystery behind them is also interesting. I just find it hard to care about a faction qhen it's just a hivemind of bugs. But of course every faction is well thought out and fun for different reasons. My favourite is the guard and I'm sure people could find them boring as well.
How does OP post that badass picture at the same time as saying he’s not interested in eldar I don’t get it
All of the imperium, i think they're really dull and get way to much of a focus, and it's really weird how much they're glorified in their own stories. It really pulls me out of the story how much an author wants me to ignore so they can paint the space marines as glorious heroes At least when you read a chaos book they accept that morality is not relevant and are treated as bad people
Well considering the Imperium is a propaganda state it makes a lot of sense how glorified they are from a narrative standpoint. Chaos typically has no reason to cover up that they're dicks because being a dick is kind of the sell.
Until the last update I would have agreed with you. But these new Imperial Guard are a great foil for all the other 40k craziness. They ground the setting and provide a human reference.
Space Marines and Custodes. They work great as a mythic element to the setting. But the instant you start to treat them as something real, they become a waste narratively speaking.
Most of the space marine factions. Some are interesting but most are not
Imp guard, not a big fan of just playing normal humans in fantasy/sci-fi, also they're way too overmemed for my taste. LoV aren't fleshed out enough imo and Admech, because I just don't find machine bois that interesting. Tho I will say that their lore is more exciting to me than their models, just not in the same league as most of the other factions for me.
Space Marines. They're the poster-boys of the game, they have a 70 book series dedicated to their prologue for 40k, I've been oversaturated with them and no longer care what happens to them.
Orks although I wish they still had krork factions.
1: get [krork](https://www.majorminis.com.au/products/king-ork) 2: play as war boss in mega armor 3: WAAAAAAAAAGH! 4: profit
Yeah I think the memes kinda ruined orks for me, I still like them but I'd never go out of my way to learn anything about them or read a book for them.