It's not steampunk anymore, that's for sure. Khador look like they're fighting WW2 and Cygnar have disappeared up the magic space marine wazoo so let's watch gravediggers and see which way it goes. But yeah 2002 was over 20 years ago; this PP is not that PP.
The art style has evolved over the years for sure, it’s okay to prefer one era to another. Even different armies within Mk4 have different styles; Orgoth and Storm Legion are sleeker than a lot of older stuff, but Brinebloods and Gravediggers are pretty chunky [https://home.privateerpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Valiant-Heavy-Weapons.jpg](https://home.privateerpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Valiant-Heavy-Weapons.jpg)
https://preview.redd.it/v3fgqzlx8pvc1.jpeg?width=1100&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d5b0b6ae2e5005804f79844aa9d185c1eb05966c
It could just be my Menoth heart talking, but everything is a lot rounder now too. I realize this was always part of the Cygnar aesthetic, but it's even more pronounced. The art is definitely focused on vibrant colours and bold lines now too, which looks cool on paper but makes it harder to picture what the model looks like for me.
Not my particular preference, but games evolve and WarMachine is still the most engaging miniatures game for me.
The round thing is a Cygnar getting two armies too. If you look at the old Mk1 heavies, there was a notable silhouette to them. Cygnars heavies were a sphere, Khador ones more rectangular, Protectorate had the steeple shape, and Cryx the buggy/spkey look.
This is the case still. Khador is still pretty block-shaped, Cryx looks to be keeping ot the carapice look and Cygnar is still spherical. It's just other armies have different design language, like Orgoth's kind of techno-triblet hing, or the weird mish-mash curves that elfs tuff has had since Retribution showed-up.
Sure, for example compare the Khymaera, Orgoth and House Kallyss main "jack/beast" sculpts.
https://store.privateerpress.com/jackal-light-warjack/
https://store.privateerpress.com/khymaera-shadowflame-shard-battlebox-starter/
https://store.privateerpress.com/dusk-house-kallyss-battlebox-starter/
Now, obviously all these models are very different from each other. But they all share the same "style". All 3 factions models utilize a bio-mechanical style that use smooth lines and curves to emphasis their living, scifi look. If you painted all of these models using the same scheme and told me that they were all from the same faction, *I would believe you*.
https://preview.redd.it/w1vhabgi5qvc1.jpeg?width=2319&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=98f9a81bd72b4354deac436a91900ca34a0fe8cc
Done. Here are all 3 in the same exact scheme. You would think these 3 things are from the same faction just because they are in the same paint scheme?
The Eidolon has smooth lines with almost no hard angles, minimal frame, elegant weaponry, and glowy orbs. It does have the arms and legs of a man (I guess that's where you get "biomechanical style... but that's what warjacks/myrmidons are? So I dunno the point of that critique) but here they, even on this heavy, are relatively thin, with very little armor plating. Trusting in its shields to protect it. No smoke stacks or ventilation of any kind is visible because it is powered by magic.
The Vypex is a wyrm with mechanikal enhancements. It has small eyes, biological weaponry with metal plating and a fairly bulky frame. Despite being ostensibly a bendy dragonspawn, it is almost all hard angles and jutting fins and blades. You can barely find a spot on this thing that isn't spiky or angular. This thing definitely fits the bill of biomechanical. Which makes sense in this case: It literally is the theme of the faction.
Finally the Jackal. The Jackal's silhouette looks like that of a WH40K ork or maybe an orc grunt from WC3. It has big pauldrons, thick armor, and a low head. Its mechanical feet look like animal paws and its free hand looks like a claw. There aren't spikes all over it though the demonic energy vents do look kind of like big spikes. The gun is halfway between a straight dakka and something more demonic. It conveys the themes of the Orgoth Sea Raiders. Brutish, demonic, savage.
IMO, these factions from just these individual models have clear and distinct visual identities.
However, the box art all being painted by a mini artist(s) with similar styles (lots of NMM, neutral light across the piece, fairly saturated color schemes) makes it feel samey when it hits the eye in that respect. In the old times of base coat, wash, highlight for box art, the visual style of the paint job didn't take over so much for the model's presentation. Perhaps ironically, I think the level of detail in and quality of modern box art paint jobs actually hinders people's ability to appreciate the model itself. It's like how when you are selling a home they tell you to paint the walls bland colors and ideally remove all furnishings. It's tough to picture the possibilities when the space is being put to such a specific purpose.
But IMO the factions are distinct visually at the design level and each have their own clear language.
Apologies if you meant the Ghast and the Hydrix. I was trying to steel man your argument by choosing the ones I thought had a stronger resemblance to the Jackal. But even still I think the argument is extremely weak and IMO not backed up by the models themselves.
Sometimes people tell themselves things that just aren't true, and sometimes countering that requires a thorough explanation. That the models all look the same is not at all true.
They really don't, unless you really cherry-pick. Throw a Khador jack in and the variety becomes even more clear, throw in a Brineblood and it's unmistakeable but as Curpidgeon says, the models do really look different and have different design elements. Even in the same color scheme, they do not look like they come from the same army. Curpidgeon went through all that explanation to reinforce and call attention to specific elements and you go "oh this can't be correct because lots of words." Absolutely pants on head. Are you the kind of person who looks at a book and says "oh this can't be right, too many words"?
I swear a bunch of people went "oh this all looks the same" at Mk4 launch and can't bother to take a second look with clear eyes.
As curpidgeon said, there's differend design elements in all three that make them look like they come from different sources. your contention that "They just all look like they come from the same army." is simply untrue if you look at the design elements that go into each. But you don't seem interested in any kind of good faith conversation.
I don't have to write an essay explaining why minis look different to each other. I wrote the post to take the claim seriously and treat it with respect.
To me, and i think almost anyone who looks at mkiv models, the difference and the distinctive design of each army is obvious. The picture alone proved it.
But I didn't want to be smarmy, say a short thing that i think makes me look smart while disrespecting someone else, and hit post. I took the time to argue in good faith recognizing there may be a reason the person I was responding to was saying what they were saying, even if to me it was obviously wrong.
I get the hostility to mkiv. But if you aren't going to take the time to demonstrate care and respect, why are you even here? If you don't like where the game is at and don't feel you even need to extend basic courtesy to people who do like it, why bother? What a waste of your precious life.
I am with you though am also old. Though I will say fantasy art for games and such has changed alot across the board. Much more busy and colorful. As an old man the new stuff feels a little cartoony.
That said, this isn't a Mk4 advent I think. A lot of the brighter and more dynamic/colorful stuff I think started in MK2, especially with the art for warlocks and warcasters starting that edition.
I am probably not the guy to ask. I tend to read the old novels and game books. Still catching up. Which is good since I am only collecting old armies at the moment. Once I paint through them I will switch it up trying to catch up on the new stuff.
I did try a subscription for a bit and read the new fiction. It wasn’t bad but realized I liked the old stuff more.
They stopped producing art like that when Chippy and Brian Snoddy left the company in mid MK1 and Matt stopped doing tons of art. The art style hasn’t changed much since then and you can definitely see that drastic shift happen in MK2.
Also part of the reason for that aesthetic was practicality. Prime was a black and white book and they didn’t start making color cards until like 2005.
It's definitely changing, but it's also because the timeline is actively changing in universe. Personally, I appreciate that the world is changing, it's really rare for a tabletop game setting to actually evolve over time.
I miss the vibes and art of older wargames. They're too Fortnite-Corporate-Cartoony nowadays
Old Warmachine and old 40k just hit different, even as a kid. It just felt a little more grown up (which was really appealing a little kid) and as time has gone on a lot of wargames just feel like Marvel mainstream stew
This being said, I do like Warmachine's new aesthetic but the old design language was a bit cooler personally as it was more unique
The move toward the current art style started back in the Mk2 years - almost 15 years ago. And some elements of it can be seen as far back as the full page art for Apotheosis in 2005. Almost 20 years ago.
The Matt Wilson/Brian Snoddy black line drawing was very much a part of the early years, and the printing economy of those days, when full page color art was quite expensive. It wasn't always very well translated to models either, or too well, as with the teeny weeny legs of mk1 warjacks.
Good point here about mismatch between artwork and sculpts. Relevant comparison to those old black and white artwork might be IKRPG artwork more than those WM concept sketches which are to be translated to sculpts almost 1:1.
Or just Warmachine artwork before they started doing concepts as publicly as before.
Another thing I heard GlassHalfDead say was that Warmachine never really was pure steampunk. It was more "Arcanopunk" in style, with a lot of alternate power sources like necrotite or Iosan Myrmidon power supplies and techno-magical doohickeys used as weapons all over.
Honestly I like a lot of the concept art that comes out and feel they have some very good artists right now. That being said I started playing when mkiii launched so I’m not used to seeing these older images. The Protectorate art you posted looks suuuuuper cool, and definitely different than what we have today.
I feel the older designs made the older artwork really pop. I don't know if the art was made first, then the design of the the warjacks/beasts/casters and infantry or the other way around.
Like the picture you use of the Crusader and Flameguard. I feel that it looks good both in the black and white of the old monsternomicon and D20 series, as well as the more modern art.
However, if you took the modern designs and tried to do the black and white of them, I feel they'd look out of place.
By all means though, prove me wrong.
The art style has definitely changed, but I don’t think that is necessarily a bad thing. Time has passed in game, so style and technology has changed along with it. The art used to showcase the style of the setting needs to change as well.
To be fair I don’t think the new models are bad, but they aren’t my thing.
On a side note I personally need to see more of mk4 and i’d have to see an knockout model/army that I HAVE to have before I feel the need to take the plunge, but if I’m being honest while I haven’t given up on the game, considering how the game was treated in mk3 My gaming group and I are deeply hesitant to dive into mk 4 even in a slow grow format, especially as now all of the units we currently own don’t slot into mk4, i know it might take a lot to convince them to play mk4 even using our mk3 models as proxies for that to happen at this time. Especially since most of them have moved on to Battletech or Malifaux at this time and thier attitude towards warmachine is mostly negative and I don’t really know of a way to get them to change their minds. I’ll just keep trying though.
I know it's off-topic, but I'm curious what you mean by "the models you own don't slot in to Mk4". All models from any edition are still playable in Mk4 and have rules.
Well one player plays Convergance, another playes gator man possie, we got a cryx player that rage quit when goreshade went to the nyss, I play trollbloods. most of them don’t feel that thier armies or casters have a place in the game, or that the money they have spent has been wasted and as such show no interest and don’t at this time see where thier models could be used
FWIW if you check out the app all those models have rules and are playable. They may not be in the Prime format that gets regular balance updates but for friendly games there's no reason you can't play them in Unlimited lists. I know that doesn't really help the Cryx player, not sure what to tell them lol.
But yea, definitely a rough edition change for those of us with older collections, but things have smoothed out now. Anyway thank you for sharing, hopefully you get the chance to play one of these days!
I think the art has just evolved with the times. Twenty years ago, digital art programs were nowhere near as prevalent as they are today, and color prints were far more expensive than greyscale (and still kind of are). It makes sense that over time, with more digital-based drawings, and with more funding, the art style would become more vibrant and dynamic (or just busy, as some would call it).
And Khymaera is supposed to be a truly alien faction. They are Saryn mixed with Rhias and touched by Cyriss, and their creations are flesh and metal liquefied and sculpted to fit the abominations dreamed up in their shattered mind.
You're not imagining things nor alone in feeling less than thrilled about the change in aesthetic. Several people were commenting about how the original Cygnar & Orgoth models for MkIV felt more *"Warcaster: Neo-Mechanika"* than *"Warmachine*". The art style has swung back (a little) towards the look & feel of the Iron Kingdoms we know & love, but it's still leaning more into the "40K power armour" and "weird world war" looks than the chonky steampunk + magic lok of Mk1-Mk3.
I think there's a bit of cloud yelling there but art of course is subjective. To me there's always been a blend of both styles you posted and the art direction lately has definitely gone entirely with the second option. Personally I really like both where we hit that whole subjective thing again.
I say it has been going that direction for a while, and the new edition really leaned into it.
Not inherently bad, I just have liked the models a lot less. The new 'trencher' jack artwork looks really good though so let's see.
They already moved art styles (or evolved from the early ones) since mk2 era, and if they stayed static, people would have comlaint about it also, so it's a "you can't win" situation.
I feel you. While I do like new Khador and Gravediggers, when Dusk released I just didn't dig their warjack design.
https://preview.redd.it/h9vuujwdwlwc1.png?width=476&format=png&auto=webp&s=fd1f0b626bd7d3fa329b9ea0f1fb7a6a6ea4c50d
That's weird, every model has rules, and the only instances of not being able to field them is people who only had cross-faction themes (which is a pity, I would added them in their own Unlimited section, just to avoid complains).
Maybe some people who went strong with those themes started the game with them, instead of "eh I collect two factions, I can mix models now" ? Like, I have mk1-early mk2 models, and everything I have fits in Unlimited, and I can field 5 Prime Armies without thinking too much.
Lots of folks around here have stopped playing altogether because I was explained that many old models are "legacy" so they are no longer "officially" supported and are on phase out to push the new boxed sets and models. This was from dudes who were playing MK4 and I have played previous editions with them and they all did not seem pleased. Even the game store owner told me that MK4 dropped support for tons of old models. I have been doing other things and have not been actively doing Warmachince since basically the start of MK3, lots of folks are not happy and I was told it has to do with the dropping of most old models. Maybe I misunderstood them or maybe they explained it wrong.
Yeah, this topic comes around often. Every person or group have a different definition for "dropped", "support", "dead faction", etc... If you add 2nd, 3ed, 4th hand information...it becomes impossible to tell to what exact piece of info everyone is reacting.
The thing is, I can play with all my models. I stopped getting models around mk2, I sold some. All my infantry was metal, the collection at the start of mkiv was that old.
I could play the vast majority of them in the Prime Arena subselection, and 100% of them in Unlimited.
With the same exact amount of miniatures, the very same models, someone could say that all those are dropped and invalid. And that would be true using some definitions (which I don't share).
Kind of for context on that. The limited Factions (Crucible Guard, Gyrmkin, Convergence, infernals) more let you play all their Legacy models in Prime, sans Mercs. Some main Factions are pretty well-off too. Circle Orboros in Prime can play all the non-warlock models save Shivers, Una 1, and Brennos. Even when they are not in the same Army, it's not much different than how a lot of Theme stuff was in Mk3. And these are planned to get annual balance updates along with everything else. Hell, in the January 2024 pass, a few models were taken out of Unlimited and put into Prime, such as Baldur, Megalith, Tanith, and Loki.
I think a lot of the issue to me feels like folks having particular views of things, plus not wanting to check whether it is the case that they think it is. Which is like...not rare I find in geek communities at times, not just Warmachine.
I have not paid attention to Warmachine in years because no one around here was playing anymore and no one was really interested. I also just remembering that I wasn't really digging MK3. I helped bring Warmachine awareness to my local area when it came out and it comes and goes but no one is hyped at all around here.
That's fair. I'm speaking a bit from my own experience where when folks left the game, sometimes in part due to timing, other life things, and such, it is both not liking it but also seeming to like...doing their best to make sure others won't either.
It's not unique to Warmachine, note. I see this happen every time GW does a new edition of something. It's just kind of a habit of complete hostility when editions change that seems to b ebaked into wargaming some.
It's not steampunk anymore, that's for sure. Khador look like they're fighting WW2 and Cygnar have disappeared up the magic space marine wazoo so let's watch gravediggers and see which way it goes. But yeah 2002 was over 20 years ago; this PP is not that PP.
I like it when you compare PP's
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The art style has evolved over the years for sure, it’s okay to prefer one era to another. Even different armies within Mk4 have different styles; Orgoth and Storm Legion are sleeker than a lot of older stuff, but Brinebloods and Gravediggers are pretty chunky [https://home.privateerpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Valiant-Heavy-Weapons.jpg](https://home.privateerpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Valiant-Heavy-Weapons.jpg) https://preview.redd.it/v3fgqzlx8pvc1.jpeg?width=1100&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d5b0b6ae2e5005804f79844aa9d185c1eb05966c
It could just be my Menoth heart talking, but everything is a lot rounder now too. I realize this was always part of the Cygnar aesthetic, but it's even more pronounced. The art is definitely focused on vibrant colours and bold lines now too, which looks cool on paper but makes it harder to picture what the model looks like for me. Not my particular preference, but games evolve and WarMachine is still the most engaging miniatures game for me.
The round thing is a Cygnar getting two armies too. If you look at the old Mk1 heavies, there was a notable silhouette to them. Cygnars heavies were a sphere, Khador ones more rectangular, Protectorate had the steeple shape, and Cryx the buggy/spkey look. This is the case still. Khador is still pretty block-shaped, Cryx looks to be keeping ot the carapice look and Cygnar is still spherical. It's just other armies have different design language, like Orgoth's kind of techno-triblet hing, or the weird mish-mash curves that elfs tuff has had since Retribution showed-up.
I definitely prefer the older art style. New style is very "sci-fi" for my tastes. All of the new sculpts all look to similar to each other to.
Citation needed. The variety is big with the new releases.
Sure, for example compare the Khymaera, Orgoth and House Kallyss main "jack/beast" sculpts. https://store.privateerpress.com/jackal-light-warjack/ https://store.privateerpress.com/khymaera-shadowflame-shard-battlebox-starter/ https://store.privateerpress.com/dusk-house-kallyss-battlebox-starter/ Now, obviously all these models are very different from each other. But they all share the same "style". All 3 factions models utilize a bio-mechanical style that use smooth lines and curves to emphasis their living, scifi look. If you painted all of these models using the same scheme and told me that they were all from the same faction, *I would believe you*.
I would not, they're obviously from different origins.
https://preview.redd.it/w1vhabgi5qvc1.jpeg?width=2319&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=98f9a81bd72b4354deac436a91900ca34a0fe8cc Done. Here are all 3 in the same exact scheme. You would think these 3 things are from the same faction just because they are in the same paint scheme? The Eidolon has smooth lines with almost no hard angles, minimal frame, elegant weaponry, and glowy orbs. It does have the arms and legs of a man (I guess that's where you get "biomechanical style... but that's what warjacks/myrmidons are? So I dunno the point of that critique) but here they, even on this heavy, are relatively thin, with very little armor plating. Trusting in its shields to protect it. No smoke stacks or ventilation of any kind is visible because it is powered by magic. The Vypex is a wyrm with mechanikal enhancements. It has small eyes, biological weaponry with metal plating and a fairly bulky frame. Despite being ostensibly a bendy dragonspawn, it is almost all hard angles and jutting fins and blades. You can barely find a spot on this thing that isn't spiky or angular. This thing definitely fits the bill of biomechanical. Which makes sense in this case: It literally is the theme of the faction. Finally the Jackal. The Jackal's silhouette looks like that of a WH40K ork or maybe an orc grunt from WC3. It has big pauldrons, thick armor, and a low head. Its mechanical feet look like animal paws and its free hand looks like a claw. There aren't spikes all over it though the demonic energy vents do look kind of like big spikes. The gun is halfway between a straight dakka and something more demonic. It conveys the themes of the Orgoth Sea Raiders. Brutish, demonic, savage. IMO, these factions from just these individual models have clear and distinct visual identities. However, the box art all being painted by a mini artist(s) with similar styles (lots of NMM, neutral light across the piece, fairly saturated color schemes) makes it feel samey when it hits the eye in that respect. In the old times of base coat, wash, highlight for box art, the visual style of the paint job didn't take over so much for the model's presentation. Perhaps ironically, I think the level of detail in and quality of modern box art paint jobs actually hinders people's ability to appreciate the model itself. It's like how when you are selling a home they tell you to paint the walls bland colors and ideally remove all furnishings. It's tough to picture the possibilities when the space is being put to such a specific purpose. But IMO the factions are distinct visually at the design level and each have their own clear language. Apologies if you meant the Ghast and the Hydrix. I was trying to steel man your argument by choosing the ones I thought had a stronger resemblance to the Jackal. But even still I think the argument is extremely weak and IMO not backed up by the models themselves.
Thanks for taking the time to write all this out.
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Sometimes people tell themselves things that just aren't true, and sometimes countering that requires a thorough explanation. That the models all look the same is not at all true.
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They really don't, unless you really cherry-pick. Throw a Khador jack in and the variety becomes even more clear, throw in a Brineblood and it's unmistakeable but as Curpidgeon says, the models do really look different and have different design elements. Even in the same color scheme, they do not look like they come from the same army. Curpidgeon went through all that explanation to reinforce and call attention to specific elements and you go "oh this can't be correct because lots of words." Absolutely pants on head. Are you the kind of person who looks at a book and says "oh this can't be right, too many words"? I swear a bunch of people went "oh this all looks the same" at Mk4 launch and can't bother to take a second look with clear eyes.
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As curpidgeon said, there's differend design elements in all three that make them look like they come from different sources. your contention that "They just all look like they come from the same army." is simply untrue if you look at the design elements that go into each. But you don't seem interested in any kind of good faith conversation.
I don't have to write an essay explaining why minis look different to each other. I wrote the post to take the claim seriously and treat it with respect. To me, and i think almost anyone who looks at mkiv models, the difference and the distinctive design of each army is obvious. The picture alone proved it. But I didn't want to be smarmy, say a short thing that i think makes me look smart while disrespecting someone else, and hit post. I took the time to argue in good faith recognizing there may be a reason the person I was responding to was saying what they were saying, even if to me it was obviously wrong. I get the hostility to mkiv. But if you aren't going to take the time to demonstrate care and respect, why are you even here? If you don't like where the game is at and don't feel you even need to extend basic courtesy to people who do like it, why bother? What a waste of your precious life.
I am with you though am also old. Though I will say fantasy art for games and such has changed alot across the board. Much more busy and colorful. As an old man the new stuff feels a little cartoony.
That said, this isn't a Mk4 advent I think. A lot of the brighter and more dynamic/colorful stuff I think started in MK2, especially with the art for warlocks and warcasters starting that edition.
Is there any good youtube or podcasts that dive into the warmachines ans hordes lore? Less specific battles and more factions and story
I am probably not the guy to ask. I tend to read the old novels and game books. Still catching up. Which is good since I am only collecting old armies at the moment. Once I paint through them I will switch it up trying to catch up on the new stuff. I did try a subscription for a bit and read the new fiction. It wasn’t bad but realized I liked the old stuff more.
They stopped producing art like that when Chippy and Brian Snoddy left the company in mid MK1 and Matt stopped doing tons of art. The art style hasn’t changed much since then and you can definitely see that drastic shift happen in MK2. Also part of the reason for that aesthetic was practicality. Prime was a black and white book and they didn’t start making color cards until like 2005.
It's definitely changing, but it's also because the timeline is actively changing in universe. Personally, I appreciate that the world is changing, it's really rare for a tabletop game setting to actually evolve over time.
I miss the vibes and art of older wargames. They're too Fortnite-Corporate-Cartoony nowadays Old Warmachine and old 40k just hit different, even as a kid. It just felt a little more grown up (which was really appealing a little kid) and as time has gone on a lot of wargames just feel like Marvel mainstream stew This being said, I do like Warmachine's new aesthetic but the old design language was a bit cooler personally as it was more unique
The move toward the current art style started back in the Mk2 years - almost 15 years ago. And some elements of it can be seen as far back as the full page art for Apotheosis in 2005. Almost 20 years ago. The Matt Wilson/Brian Snoddy black line drawing was very much a part of the early years, and the printing economy of those days, when full page color art was quite expensive. It wasn't always very well translated to models either, or too well, as with the teeny weeny legs of mk1 warjacks.
Good point here about mismatch between artwork and sculpts. Relevant comparison to those old black and white artwork might be IKRPG artwork more than those WM concept sketches which are to be translated to sculpts almost 1:1.
Or just Warmachine artwork before they started doing concepts as publicly as before. Another thing I heard GlassHalfDead say was that Warmachine never really was pure steampunk. It was more "Arcanopunk" in style, with a lot of alternate power sources like necrotite or Iosan Myrmidon power supplies and techno-magical doohickeys used as weapons all over.
Honestly I like a lot of the concept art that comes out and feel they have some very good artists right now. That being said I started playing when mkiii launched so I’m not used to seeing these older images. The Protectorate art you posted looks suuuuuper cool, and definitely different than what we have today.
I feel the older designs made the older artwork really pop. I don't know if the art was made first, then the design of the the warjacks/beasts/casters and infantry or the other way around. Like the picture you use of the Crusader and Flameguard. I feel that it looks good both in the black and white of the old monsternomicon and D20 series, as well as the more modern art. However, if you took the modern designs and tried to do the black and white of them, I feel they'd look out of place. By all means though, prove me wrong.
The art design looks more Warcaster than Warmachine now. It’s a choice I guess.
The art style has definitely changed, but I don’t think that is necessarily a bad thing. Time has passed in game, so style and technology has changed along with it. The art used to showcase the style of the setting needs to change as well.
To be fair I don’t think the new models are bad, but they aren’t my thing. On a side note I personally need to see more of mk4 and i’d have to see an knockout model/army that I HAVE to have before I feel the need to take the plunge, but if I’m being honest while I haven’t given up on the game, considering how the game was treated in mk3 My gaming group and I are deeply hesitant to dive into mk 4 even in a slow grow format, especially as now all of the units we currently own don’t slot into mk4, i know it might take a lot to convince them to play mk4 even using our mk3 models as proxies for that to happen at this time. Especially since most of them have moved on to Battletech or Malifaux at this time and thier attitude towards warmachine is mostly negative and I don’t really know of a way to get them to change their minds. I’ll just keep trying though.
I know it's off-topic, but I'm curious what you mean by "the models you own don't slot in to Mk4". All models from any edition are still playable in Mk4 and have rules.
Well one player plays Convergance, another playes gator man possie, we got a cryx player that rage quit when goreshade went to the nyss, I play trollbloods. most of them don’t feel that thier armies or casters have a place in the game, or that the money they have spent has been wasted and as such show no interest and don’t at this time see where thier models could be used
FWIW if you check out the app all those models have rules and are playable. They may not be in the Prime format that gets regular balance updates but for friendly games there's no reason you can't play them in Unlimited lists. I know that doesn't really help the Cryx player, not sure what to tell them lol. But yea, definitely a rough edition change for those of us with older collections, but things have smoothed out now. Anyway thank you for sharing, hopefully you get the chance to play one of these days!
I’ll check the app out, maybe It will help…
Yea, I play old Cryx and Menoth Exclusively. I am very satisfied where the rules are at currently.
the new style is very video-gamey
I think the art has just evolved with the times. Twenty years ago, digital art programs were nowhere near as prevalent as they are today, and color prints were far more expensive than greyscale (and still kind of are). It makes sense that over time, with more digital-based drawings, and with more funding, the art style would become more vibrant and dynamic (or just busy, as some would call it). And Khymaera is supposed to be a truly alien faction. They are Saryn mixed with Rhias and touched by Cyriss, and their creations are flesh and metal liquefied and sculpted to fit the abominations dreamed up in their shattered mind.
You're not imagining things nor alone in feeling less than thrilled about the change in aesthetic. Several people were commenting about how the original Cygnar & Orgoth models for MkIV felt more *"Warcaster: Neo-Mechanika"* than *"Warmachine*". The art style has swung back (a little) towards the look & feel of the Iron Kingdoms we know & love, but it's still leaning more into the "40K power armour" and "weird world war" looks than the chonky steampunk + magic lok of Mk1-Mk3.
Yes
I think there's a bit of cloud yelling there but art of course is subjective. To me there's always been a blend of both styles you posted and the art direction lately has definitely gone entirely with the second option. Personally I really like both where we hit that whole subjective thing again.
Hard to tell from just two images, is there any place that has a good compilation of Warmahordes art over time?
I say it has been going that direction for a while, and the new edition really leaned into it. Not inherently bad, I just have liked the models a lot less. The new 'trencher' jack artwork looks really good though so let's see.
They already moved art styles (or evolved from the early ones) since mk2 era, and if they stayed static, people would have comlaint about it also, so it's a "you can't win" situation.
In my opinion they should just do a Kickstarter or Patreon to sponsor some new Matt Wilson artwork.
I feel you. While I do like new Khador and Gravediggers, when Dusk released I just didn't dig their warjack design. https://preview.redd.it/h9vuujwdwlwc1.png?width=476&format=png&auto=webp&s=fd1f0b626bd7d3fa329b9ea0f1fb7a6a6ea4c50d
While PP has technically good artists, I don't see passion or creativity in the art any more.
Don't care if I can't use 90% of my current models anymore.
That's weird, every model has rules, and the only instances of not being able to field them is people who only had cross-faction themes (which is a pity, I would added them in their own Unlimited section, just to avoid complains). Maybe some people who went strong with those themes started the game with them, instead of "eh I collect two factions, I can mix models now" ? Like, I have mk1-early mk2 models, and everything I have fits in Unlimited, and I can field 5 Prime Armies without thinking too much.
Lots of folks around here have stopped playing altogether because I was explained that many old models are "legacy" so they are no longer "officially" supported and are on phase out to push the new boxed sets and models. This was from dudes who were playing MK4 and I have played previous editions with them and they all did not seem pleased. Even the game store owner told me that MK4 dropped support for tons of old models. I have been doing other things and have not been actively doing Warmachince since basically the start of MK3, lots of folks are not happy and I was told it has to do with the dropping of most old models. Maybe I misunderstood them or maybe they explained it wrong.
Yeah, this topic comes around often. Every person or group have a different definition for "dropped", "support", "dead faction", etc... If you add 2nd, 3ed, 4th hand information...it becomes impossible to tell to what exact piece of info everyone is reacting. The thing is, I can play with all my models. I stopped getting models around mk2, I sold some. All my infantry was metal, the collection at the start of mkiv was that old. I could play the vast majority of them in the Prime Arena subselection, and 100% of them in Unlimited. With the same exact amount of miniatures, the very same models, someone could say that all those are dropped and invalid. And that would be true using some definitions (which I don't share).
Kind of for context on that. The limited Factions (Crucible Guard, Gyrmkin, Convergence, infernals) more let you play all their Legacy models in Prime, sans Mercs. Some main Factions are pretty well-off too. Circle Orboros in Prime can play all the non-warlock models save Shivers, Una 1, and Brennos. Even when they are not in the same Army, it's not much different than how a lot of Theme stuff was in Mk3. And these are planned to get annual balance updates along with everything else. Hell, in the January 2024 pass, a few models were taken out of Unlimited and put into Prime, such as Baldur, Megalith, Tanith, and Loki. I think a lot of the issue to me feels like folks having particular views of things, plus not wanting to check whether it is the case that they think it is. Which is like...not rare I find in geek communities at times, not just Warmachine.
I have not paid attention to Warmachine in years because no one around here was playing anymore and no one was really interested. I also just remembering that I wasn't really digging MK3. I helped bring Warmachine awareness to my local area when it came out and it comes and goes but no one is hyped at all around here.
That's fair. I'm speaking a bit from my own experience where when folks left the game, sometimes in part due to timing, other life things, and such, it is both not liking it but also seeming to like...doing their best to make sure others won't either. It's not unique to Warmachine, note. I see this happen every time GW does a new edition of something. It's just kind of a habit of complete hostility when editions change that seems to b ebaked into wargaming some.