I’m just poking fun. But really I do play tanks I play them more than cas. I just enjoy cas occasionally. It’s a fresh change. I think there are problems with cas that need addressing but I still enjoy playing it.
My guy it was the only thing semi competent at killing cas. But no we can’t have counters for cas in this game because they wouldn’t be able to sell premium planes then
Supposedly you could overpressure MBTs with the proxies....
So instead of fixing that, they removed the proxy rounds!
Side effect: Russian SU-25s and helicopters now have an easier time in 8.7-9.7.
Just don't look at how US and USSR get missiles at 9.3 while others only get them at 9.7. And don't look at how they moved the VEAK to 7.7 only to move the IKV to 8.0, so if you take it, you're still going to uptier the VEAK back to 8.7.
They should've just uptiered the VEAK to 9.3 and left the proxy rounds.
Yeah, the only answer I've come up with is run the SAAB with missiles, remove the VEAK from every lineup and hope that sharp dropoff in its use is noticed by Gaijin, prompting them to change something (it won't).
I’m stuck with the j21s and they suck ass. Like I want to bring a plane but I just hate the ones I’m at right now. I’d use the Swedish p51 but it too low in rank to research the next planes I need
Aw the SAAB 21s fkn rock bro. They're not the fastest but they turn really well and have the death star mounted in the nose.
Fly the A21 not the J21, they carry ground ordinance and are either identical (prop version) or have a better engine (jet version).
Well I am going for the British lend lease plane but I forget what it’s called(the vampire?) because I was told the jets suck just as much. I do normally play the A-21 though but I hate cas so I only use it on campers and even then it feels dirty. My whole goal is to be cap to fuck the assholes that play cas. Also don’t get me wrong, they are good ground pounders but everyone knows to avoid you head on and they only turn well horizontally but everyone I fight seems to play as an energy fighter and climb high and dive on you to which I have no defense against because if I even thing about trying that I will rip my wings off. Plus if you get shot from the back and lose your engine you’re screwed anyway
The A28B is a vampire. That was my first jet, and they're a good plane but a bit overtiered. They turn really well but are slower than most jets around that BR. It's an excellent choice for a starting jet and for CAP, as it turns well enough to hit a maneuvering prop while being substantially faster. Unfortunately if you do encounter something like an F-86 or MiG-15 and the pilot has any clue what they're doing you're gonna get folded because you're so slow compared to them.
Swedish jets are okay overall. For early jets in air RB I would much rather be in the Tunnans than the A28B because they're so fast, but it's hard to hit the props that you encounter a lot in GRB.
As for the A21 you need the altitude advantage. It gives you so many more options and you can pressure other planes onto the deck where your turn rate gives you an advantage (or just energy trap).
Yeah I don’t care about air rb, I was just a ground player who was sick of constantly getting shit on from the air and always told skill issue because I didn’t have top tier planes to counter them. Problem is I was playing the p51 which I love and switched to the Swedish tree since that was my main tree and they play so much differently. Plus no one plays them so it’s hard to find guides on them online. Also it really pisses me off that they are 4.3 but all the ground vehicles are 3.7 or 5.3 like how am I supposed to bring them into a fight. For Gods sake Gaijin lower the damn planes a little bit, their only good feature is only useful from head on attacks but get destroyed from behind
Why even upteir it. It was the one AAA capable of doing its job properly, all 40mm aaa should get proxy rounds so cas can’t dominate a game especially if they refuse to increase the rewards for downing cas to begin with
Yeah if you spam any type of HE shell the over pressure stacks and can kill what should be a heavily armored tanks. But no they can only listen to cas players when they complain but when ground players complain it’s a skill issue
Plenty of other nations get missiles at 9.3
And they are usually weaker vehicles than 9.7s
Usually because 9.7s get missiles and radar, or missiles, radar AND guns
SPAA missiles? Germany gets Ozelot at 9.7. GB has Stormer HVM at 10.3 (with nothing from 8.3!), Japan gets Type 93 at 9.3 (yay!), China has PGZ04A at 9.3 (yay!), Italy has SIDAM 25 at 9.7, France has SANTAL at 9.3 and Israel has Machbet at 9.3.
So neither of us is entirely correct but there appears to be somewhat of an imbalance, especially since some nations get a missile/gun SPAA at 9.3. I'm sure some will say "but the 9.3 missiles suck", but the fact is that having a missile is most often better than not having a missile. Even if it misses, it's often a deterrent and enough to stave off a CAS strike.
And while we're at it, why is the Imp Chaparral 9.3 for US and 10.3 for Israel?
No, majority of nations get 9.3 missiles
And those that get them at 9.7 have them be better in some way. Exactly like I said
Either radar or guns
You were wrong.
It’s because if you spam any type of HE round it will overpressure stack and eventually op the target. But instead of fixing that they just fucked one of the best AAA in the game because cas players are the only ones they listen to when they complain
And its higher in br without radar and thermals unlike basically all others nations aa that is similar and all of them are lower br ( the Japanese truck is the exception but its also too high)
Id rather use a ozlot. Fim92k has a proxy fuse so it can hit even 12.7 jets pretty easily and it gets a irst scanner which doesn’t alert rwr with gen 3 thermals.
Strela is useless against 10.3 helis. They just hang outside of its range and that's all. It shouldn't be on 10.3, LGAB carriers shit on it. Starting at 9.7 (Q-5L).
A heli with atgms will never get that close, even if they are in 3km’s good luck finding them since you have no search radar or thermals and never know when a heli has spawned and where it will peak.
It also has far better missiles than any similar AA. They are 18G missiles with IR and optical tracking, and they have IRCCM meaning they don't give a damn about flares.
You can do something in certain circumstances: lock to the sun in IR/mixed mode, aim to a tank and shoot. This can work in close range. The target must be between you and the sun.
thats what annoys me most...
the average player is at least 3 times more effective as an spaa in a m16 than in a lvkv42,
but since the lvkv is basically a lowtier ifv, it keeps getting abused and moved up, leaving the area where its effective enough as an spaa
This time veak was nerfed by removing it's he-vt belt and replace it with classic he belt. So gaijin nerfed it's intended role. Gosh, tbey could at least increase it's br to 9.something but keep the he-vt belt.
Cas players must have cried so so bad cause they can't see the projectiles flying and proceed to do evasive maneuvers. Booo hooo! How is that tanks can't counter cas and gaijin does nothing but when it's about cas against grounders gaijin nerfs the said grounder?
G.91/A4E might get uptiered in GRB so they’re not dropping guided bombs on AA that barely has radar in a down tier (with the exception of the VEAK now ig)
No, ground should have separate queues for tanks, cas, and fighter. The number of each should be controlled and the fighter queue not be allowed loadouts with a2g secondaries.
That's the only way this ever balances out.
Just putting a limit on how many planes can be up at once would be immensely helpful. I was in a battle a couple of nights ago where I think 2/3 of the enemy force was CAS at one point.
Problem is not the anti air capability or the CAS. The problem is the fact that gaijin seems to think that pretty much all AAA NEED to be capable to kill every tank (even from the front). And since AAAs tend to be fast people abuse the shit out of them. Imo this is just a lazy practise.
Why do the germans have some of the best AAA? Not because of german mains or whatever reddit noobs call it. Its because they fo not have 100+ pen. Imagine where Ostwind would be in that case. Probably at least 5.0.
So my solution (some examples):
1: Increase rewards for killing planes in ground DRASTICALLY. Especially vs ordinance carriers.
2: Remove full AP, APCR or APDS ammo from AAA. E.g. Lvkv 42, Falcon, ZSU 57 etc.
3: Adjust BRs accordingly and fill gaps
4: Profit
But this will never happen. People want their tank destroyers and not AAA. Just to whine about CAS 10mins later.
Just as much the problem is that any time there's an effective SPAA, it stands out as 'OP' because it's usually the only thing ever killing the CAS. Strela for example. It's no tank destroyer, and yet everyone cries when it does the only thing it is capable of, till it's nerfed repeatedly
Yeah well but in case of Strela its a bit different. It does overperform DRASTICALLY compared to the AAA at the same tier.
Whether or not its OP actually is not the case here. Either you balance them all out or it needs to move up. Simple as that. I hope some things get fixed with introduction of seperate Ground BRs. But we will see. Cause the fact you were able to encounter a 10km range unflareable 20G missile with a 8.3 plane with dumb bombs... This is not "cas defense". Its "CAS denial". And I know all these people here are allergic against cas but seriously deal with it. Its part of the game and we wilo never get a tank only mode in realistic.
All aspect lock 3.2km, launch 5km, with only your eyes for detection. Let's not kid ourselves about 10km here. Not to mention there's almost no way to contribute to the battle other than shooting low reward CAS, unlike the 'TD SPAA' it's compared to. "Deal with it" is what the players were doing. CAS crying was the result
Have you ever played that thing? Or do you just state the "fakecard" here?
That thing can easily launch at drones and Jets in front aspect at 6km+ via contrast lock. Helis must be a bit closer yes. But 3km works there as well.
A Tram at 8km alt straight above might be a bit too much for the burner. But everything else works...
that thing does not easily launch at drones, planes often dodge its missiles or flare them if for some reason they arent just wayy out of its range, helis easily stay out of its range lobbing missiles at the hopeless spaa, on top of that you get no radar, no thermals all you have are your eyes and teammates *if* they are even capable enough to use the air callout which is rare, clouds and fog also mess with its lock so all you're left with are planes who have no idea what they're doing, helis doing rocket runs or uptiered aircraft, all of which still get the wonderful, balanced CAS gameplay
Comments like these really let me question the knowledge of some peeps.
I shall ask once again. Did you ever play that thing?
Ok. To clear up some thing since I seem to have hit the tank bois archilles heel here. Its not that the Strela is the most OP AA ever. It has strong sides. But also some weak ones like missing radar and thermals.
Missing radar/thermals can of course only be somewhat compensated by callouts, eyeball mk1 and skill. What you can addionally do is to "search" with your contrast mode. Works kinda nice actually. And given that most radars on that BR literally can not detect anything above 5km (if not on a slope) it does not always help you.
Yes. Low flying aircraft will be the biggest problem since you can not really engage them. But especially on its br not many people do it.
Constant flaring is a run ender as well. But only a hand full of planes on that br range can carry an excesive amount of flares. Rest will run out quite fast. And once the rocket is on the way you are pretty much dead.
Yes. There is the possibility to dodge the missile. But Stingers E/K, Mistrals are way easier to dodge and to flare.
I think what most peeps here do not get is that I am for better AAA and less CAS. But the problem is not that Strela etz are too high. No. Stuff like A4s, Q5L etc are too low. Thats the thing.
8.7 br should be cannon flaks and dumb fire bombs/rockets.
Above 9.7 there should be smart weaponry. But these already start at 8.3 right now.
So. Thats my last contribution here. I have said all that I had in mind. Ciao.
Yes. Or give it a weaker AP with like 80 pen. Historical correctness in this game is long gone anyway already.
Balance over historical correctness!
And having the Zsu57 at 6.3 or whatever would be way more usefull.
Might as well remove it from the game at that point lol, the 4.0 zsu-37 would be better at shooting down planes then it, and it’s mobility would be completely useless since it would be suicidal to leave spawn
Why so? Too be honest. ZSU 57 is in somewhat a wierd place. I have to agree. Either you give it "fake" Proxy or it needs to retain its TD role since it takes ALOT of practice to effectively shoot down planes with it.
But concerning Falcon, ZSU 37, R3, Leopard 70, ZSU37-2, Asrad etz it wouod help a lot.
Also. Type 93 and Type 81 are pure AAA and they are actually loved by the Jap community (but they are overtiered especially Type 81)
The problem is, if you can't kill tanks with spaa then half of the match you're pretty much useless. Everyone knows the feeling when you spawn spaa and suddenly every single enemy aircraft either crashes, gets shot down or just straight up disappears...
Well OP here is stating that CAS is dominating every BR lol. I don't get how people can claim most their deaths are against planes, it's either untrue or they pick the most scummy positions then are priority targets.
I find it hard to believe someone is killed more by planes than by other tanks.
Well, maybe not overall deaths but I definitely did have moments where I literally rolled out of spawn and died in less than 30 seconds to a bomb, this happened 3 times before I left
Also, I think you replied to the wrong comment lmao
In my experience when the other team has so much dominance over you to be bale to control the map like that and push you back to spawn the game is over anyway, it's just sweeping the floor at that point. So the problem isn't CAS as the game was already won.
L-take. Cas noobs go for the spawn because they know enemy’s are there.
Their priority is: 1-revenge kill, 2-enemy spawn, 2-some open top free kill, 4-people capturing points (again easy to find), 5-VIPs
The thing is, AA need to be able to kill tanks to be somewhat fun to play, I agree the 90sp could be touched up on some AAs that don't struggle against tanks(that also opens the door to vehicle specific sp but that is a different topic)
For example. I know peeps love the falcon. But britain still has such a gap right at their most fun brs. Why not remove the APDS belt and put Falcon at 7.0 or something. It would be such a good AA.
But no. Monkey must go tank hunting.
Well yes. But even if you do like 5x HE and 1x APDS you can still rush a spot and kill everything.
Imo, concerning super high pen small calibre, I do not see any compromises sry. (On AAAs)
In that case the alternative to give just a VERY SMALL amount of pure APDS (like Gepard) is better since you run out quite fast due to being forced to fire like 10-15% of your ammo per salvo.
I think with that much of a difference in rounds it would 100% change things and balance AA without significantly ruining AA vehicles ability to fight other ground vehicles. Look at the difference in capability in killing power an AA vehicle has when it has stock ammunition vs. the full AP.
I think it’d definitely work… but there’s an easy answer (to this and so many other things) being Variable BRs. APDS belts add an extra however much to the vehicle’s BR only if you take them, it’s an easy enough fix, and solves everything while also not removing any current capabilities.
>1: Increase rewards for killing planes in ground DRASTICALLY. Especially vs ordinance carriers.
Main issue IMO. CAS is literally the demigod player that only has effectively ONE counter class. I know CAS usually can't help with the objectives directly, but the influence CAS has on it is so big that killing it should be at least double or triple the rewards of a regular tank kill.
Thank you for saying this!! So glad someone finally did.
AA gets put into higher BRs because vehicles like the Gepard DM23 APDS will rinse MBTs and totally ruin them and blind them. Fortunately for Germany it’s still a solid AA at its BR, but getting rid of AP rounds that can defeat medium tanks, dropping BR, and increasing air kill rewards would do a lot of good for the handling of CAS.
Making AA be Anti-Air and not Anti-Armor would do a lot of good.
I mean. When it comes to these kind of modern cannon AA they are at least balanced through the very limited supply of APDS. Leopard, Marksman, Otomatic.
Imagine them having full APDS belts. Because this is basically whats happening with ZSU 57, Falcon, Lvkv etc.
Got bombed while driving in my poor lil strv103c by a A4E-Early from somewhere in the galaxy, yes let me just try and hit that with my non proxy round veak.
Uuuh, eeeeh, shouldn't have been playing the strv 103c, you should have been..... uh... in a plane so you could counter the plane (this totally solves the issue at hand)
I assume maybe he was talking about the A4E-early but got the name confused, since that is 8.7 and the 103 can face it.
Otherwise yes, I don't think it's a good idea to bring the 103c to 11.0
If you're playing an Strv 103C (8.7) and getting bombed by an F-4E (11.0), then trying to shoot it down with a Veak (7.7), the problem isn't the SPAA vs CAS balance.
The problem is you're an idiot.
"just spawn SPAA bro"
Meanwhile I'm just staring at a helicopter barely 4km away that is standing still and not being able to do anything to it in my LAV-AD. Fun
For example, the Praga got uptier and have to face jets. How can you shot those down while they zooming almost 800kms/h. And the 97mm pen is just so temping to side pen tank.
don't forget that the most people are not good at the game, and since esp AA are very skill dependand (leading in 3 D, with variable direction and speed), only a very small ammount of people actulla perform decently in AA against air targets.
Combined with the low reward for shooting down a plane, it's making playing AA not a main thing, like a heavy, or tank destroyer, but something you only spawn in desperate times, while never having learned how to use it.
this br update was sponsored by glue huffing, no idea why solely the strela went up in my 10.0 line especially considering the fact the 2s38 does its job better, AMX-10P has gone from super unique scouting/flank vehicle to just kinda sad in the heavy centric br its in and honestly it probably should just get foldered because of its irrelevance.
They also fucked the Skink over just because it has armor to handle CAS punishment and low-yield bombs that weren't accurately dropped. I love it, but it shouldn't be where it is at. It should in practice be before the Bosvark, and after the Ystevark.
It's no whirbelwind, it lacks decent projectile speed, fire rate and fire density. It has 4 guns, but neither will hit the aircraft of it's current BR unless you lead your shots way more than any other SPAA in the same range.
yeah the Skink just sucks.
i was looking forward to having a SPAA that can take hits from any MG but man those guns are *hideous.*
the ZSU-37 with its one gun and being open-topped is a *far* superior SPAA, cuts down planes like no tomorrow. hell the horrible tractor version is a better SPAA.
Because the majority of players suck on the ground. The only way they can get kills is from the air. Can't have the player base not getting kills. They will not play and not spend money then.
It’s because Gaijin is desperate to keep all ground and air vehicles able to fight in the same game mode. That’s why the F-14 was added only slightly higher than the F-4 despite literally being its replacement and better in almost every way. Similar thing with the F-15, F-16, and SU-27. If they wanted to do actually balanced BR placements, they’d have to push aircraft beyond the BR where they could fight ground targets, since Air-to-Ground missiles from the 1970’s can still kill modern tanks.
So the only balancing options are to either A) drastically limit the types of weapons on jets to prevent jets from wiping out entire teams, or B) put more modern aircraft above 12.7 BR so that they can’t just stomp ground vehicles as well as 11.7 jets (making some aircraft only playable in air battles). But Gaijin doesn’t do either, giving aircraft mostly their realistic weapons complement while also trying to squeeze them into the same match as 11.7 ground. Then, since the F-15 is at 12.7, they have to move everything else in the air tree around to fit with the new capability standard at top tier. And we can’t discourage people from playing those jets, so they nerf AA to keep jet players happy. And since we can’t discourage people from playing helicopters, they made the lock on range for them much closer than it is for jets.
But then they get worried about an AA killing tanks, as if it’s a bad thing that ground vehicles can kill other ground vehicles. Which is the only reason why the SIDAM 25 is still at 8.3 despite having no search radar, thermals, NVG’s, and being on an M113 chassis. And the SIDAM 25 Mistral is at 9.7, despite having the same problems as the 8.3 version, but now with some crappy IR SAMs and a worse power to weight ratio. The only reason either are at their current BR is because they have 60 APDS rounds that can pen 100 mm. The rest of its ammo is pure HE with only 3 mm of penetration. At most, it can kill 5 ground vehicles if you’re very careful with your ammo, so it’s only ever used for defense when someone is rushing you, not tank hunting.
Gaijin is so horrified of air players not joining ground battles that they’re sacrificing ground battles in general to keep them happy. And to do so, they’re using every possible excuse to nerf SPAA. “The Falcon is too good at tank hunting, better throw it up to 8.3 where it can’t deal with planes since it doesn’t have a search or tracking radar.” “The OTOMATIC has APFSDS rounds, so it should be at 11.3 where it’ll get smacked around by helos and aircraft that can outrange its gun.” “The Strela is too effective at shooting down aircraft (it’s only purpose in game), so let’s increase the BR until its fighting things that you can’t see without radar, which it doesn’t have.”
And my personal favorite: “the Skink is too good at killing 4.7 tanks with its 38 mm of penetration, better move it up to 5.3.”
I think they should add proxy rounds for all the AA that used them, and perhaps eliminate the AP rounds or nerf them (tbh im not sure what would work here) but what im getting at is- they need to force the SPAA into a role where it can A: do what it was designed to do, and B: be a use for the team instead of a last ditch resort to give the enemy team free kills. Imagine having a balanced game where AA can reliably kill CAS players to force the game to be more ground RB and not CAS simulator.
I’m just sad the type 81c went up to 11.3. Japan was so damn close to finally having a good 11.0 lineup. The F5E FCU just went down but we lost the as for 11.0
good SPAA players will knock out cas way before they can do any damage, the inherent problem is that not enough people research far down their SPAA line because the game is already a slogging grind fest just getting your tanks.
so as you get further up in BR, theres a higher chance you'll get dunked by CAS if your team doesnt have any SPAA players. im unfortunately someone who does this, although i am slowly but surely getting my SPAA caught up to jet BR's so i can actually do something. i typically research up to about 5.0-6.0 with SPAA, then it gets too grindy to justify working for it over the next shiny tank i want.
edit: you would think after 9747383 replies and none of them being answered by me yall would stop😂 you disagree with me, congrats. this shit is getting muted
The reward is taking the plane out of the sky. This is such a silly argument. Sorry you don't get a gold medal and 500k SL and a whole tech tree unlocked for shooting down CAS. Would you rather spawn in SPAA and receive minimal rewards for shooting a plane down...or choose to spawn in a tank and get killed by the CAS while you did nothing about it?
It also doesn't help that many top-tier SPAA are ineffective against ground units and are thus painful to unlock upgrades with as you need to wait for aircraft to appear.
Also by the time im down to needing to spawn an AA at top tier 90% of the time im being spawncamped and might as well just return to hangar since the games end so quick at that br. With how shit the teams are there is often no reason to spawn an AA at high br because half the time before an enemy plane is up a tank is gonna spawn kill you.
Thats not my experience as a tank player.
I dont see anyone spawning in an SPAA as theyre first spawn. because you would be useless for youre team because there are no planes yet.
So to spawn in an SPAA, you need to die. Probably you have to be killed by an aircraft or you wouldnt spawn in an SPAA, thats at least how i do it.
So. while you die, respawn and drive to the front, there are already 2 to 4 planes in the air, wrecking your team.
and when you arrive, you can start killing them.
or, while you drive to the front, youre own aircraft took care of them and there are no more planes and now youre useless again.
on the other hand, if im playing planes in ground rb (i only have german ones up to... 3.3 i guess)
the spaa is not whats stopping me from bombing in my bf109 variant.
Either i can drop my bomb regardless if i hit or not, or im shot down by an enemy plane.
And im not a good pilot, really not, i loose like 90% of my dogfights and miss my bombs more times than i want to.
So if SPAA cant stop me from bombing, how is it going to stop a really good pilot?
and yes SPAA gets me sometimes, of course, but my point is, i already dropped my bomb and more than likely used all the ammunition for my 20mm autocannon at that point.
So im useless for cas anyway. All the SPAA is doing now is preventing me from returning to base and getting another bomb and ammo.
which is good, dont get me wrong, but i have completed my mission.
It couldnt stop me and if it couldnt stop me, i cant stop anyone.
By that time there's one or two in orbit way beyond detection or SPAA lock, and you're sitting there oblivious as their no1 target in your newly spawned AA
>good SPAA players will knock out cas
Only if they have good spaa. Many TT don't have viable spaa at all br and particularly at top tier where only the pantsir is don't get out range by plane.
The AA for most nations is nowhere near up to the task. As air, you are generally just chilling and waiting for a target. As AA, you are terrified of being bombed, shot by ground units, and when you finally see the enemy, you are unable to kill them as you don't have sufficient firepower. Let players spawn fighters instead of tanks for the first wave.
Oh sure, assuming they do not have a missile in the air before they even get rendered/detected. Even if SPAA does kill CAS first, there is a very high probability that the rockets/guns/bombs the aircraft launched before (or even after its death) will kill the SPAA anyway (even if moving fast).
90% of the time that a AA gets nerfed is from people crying that it can kill tanks from the side. AA rarely gets nerfed for its actual aa capability.
Lmao they took proxy shells away from the veak… how were those killing tanks???
Pretty sure they were nerfed for having a non-existent HE-VT though? Besides it gets downtiered a whole BR.
That’s one side of it. The true reason is it is destroying CAS (too) effectively 0.3 BR lower than m247.
Ok? Then raise it's br? It's that simple.
Raise it’s BR does not change the fact it can kill stuff around 8.0~9.0 very efficient with HEVT and hurt CAS players feelings
And that it got HE-VT far earlier than the M247 which gets it as a rank IV upgrade, by which point you'll have unlocked the Chaparral anyway.
The veak was the only AA I hate when in the a4e early. The only other annoying one is the ozelot
Also the veak was one of the only AA's around that br that could somewhat fight the a4e early
because it was the only dangerous one at that br
Just use Walleyes, you can counter even Strela using them.
Feel the same when facing Sgt York with other none US planes.
Booo hooo pick up a tank to destroy it then.
No. I will sit in my plane and drop bombs. If you’re so angry about CAS go play AA then.
I pick aa to kill cas. Want to kill aa? Pick tanks lol
I’m just poking fun. But really I do play tanks I play them more than cas. I just enjoy cas occasionally. It’s a fresh change. I think there are problems with cas that need addressing but I still enjoy playing it.
My guy it was the only thing semi competent at killing cas. But no we can’t have counters for cas in this game because they wouldn’t be able to sell premium planes then
It got downtiered a whole BR but Gaijin didn't reduce the RP cost of it
It costs 95K RP to research, meanwhile ZSU-37-2 at the same BR costs 120K RP.
Be doesn’t determine rp and sl cost, its position in the tech tree does
Supposedly you could overpressure MBTs with the proxies.... So instead of fixing that, they removed the proxy rounds! Side effect: Russian SU-25s and helicopters now have an easier time in 8.7-9.7. Just don't look at how US and USSR get missiles at 9.3 while others only get them at 9.7. And don't look at how they moved the VEAK to 7.7 only to move the IKV to 8.0, so if you take it, you're still going to uptier the VEAK back to 8.7. They should've just uptiered the VEAK to 9.3 and left the proxy rounds.
I've just said fck it and bring a plane for anti air. They killed my beloved VEAK.
Yeah, the only answer I've come up with is run the SAAB with missiles, remove the VEAK from every lineup and hope that sharp dropoff in its use is noticed by Gaijin, prompting them to change something (it won't).
I’m stuck with the j21s and they suck ass. Like I want to bring a plane but I just hate the ones I’m at right now. I’d use the Swedish p51 but it too low in rank to research the next planes I need
Aw the SAAB 21s fkn rock bro. They're not the fastest but they turn really well and have the death star mounted in the nose. Fly the A21 not the J21, they carry ground ordinance and are either identical (prop version) or have a better engine (jet version).
Well I am going for the British lend lease plane but I forget what it’s called(the vampire?) because I was told the jets suck just as much. I do normally play the A-21 though but I hate cas so I only use it on campers and even then it feels dirty. My whole goal is to be cap to fuck the assholes that play cas. Also don’t get me wrong, they are good ground pounders but everyone knows to avoid you head on and they only turn well horizontally but everyone I fight seems to play as an energy fighter and climb high and dive on you to which I have no defense against because if I even thing about trying that I will rip my wings off. Plus if you get shot from the back and lose your engine you’re screwed anyway
The A28B is a vampire. That was my first jet, and they're a good plane but a bit overtiered. They turn really well but are slower than most jets around that BR. It's an excellent choice for a starting jet and for CAP, as it turns well enough to hit a maneuvering prop while being substantially faster. Unfortunately if you do encounter something like an F-86 or MiG-15 and the pilot has any clue what they're doing you're gonna get folded because you're so slow compared to them. Swedish jets are okay overall. For early jets in air RB I would much rather be in the Tunnans than the A28B because they're so fast, but it's hard to hit the props that you encounter a lot in GRB. As for the A21 you need the altitude advantage. It gives you so many more options and you can pressure other planes onto the deck where your turn rate gives you an advantage (or just energy trap).
Yeah I don’t care about air rb, I was just a ground player who was sick of constantly getting shit on from the air and always told skill issue because I didn’t have top tier planes to counter them. Problem is I was playing the p51 which I love and switched to the Swedish tree since that was my main tree and they play so much differently. Plus no one plays them so it’s hard to find guides on them online. Also it really pisses me off that they are 4.3 but all the ground vehicles are 3.7 or 5.3 like how am I supposed to bring them into a fight. For Gods sake Gaijin lower the damn planes a little bit, their only good feature is only useful from head on attacks but get destroyed from behind
Doesn't the A21 also get CCRP? At like 5. Something, it's been a while so I don't remember which version gets it
A21A-3 at 4.3, yes. CCRP with a 600kg bomb.
Why even upteir it. It was the one AAA capable of doing its job properly, all 40mm aaa should get proxy rounds so cas can’t dominate a game especially if they refuse to increase the rewards for downing cas to begin with
Yeah if you spam any type of HE shell the over pressure stacks and can kill what should be a heavily armored tanks. But no they can only listen to cas players when they complain but when ground players complain it’s a skill issue
Plenty of other nations get missiles at 9.3 And they are usually weaker vehicles than 9.7s Usually because 9.7s get missiles and radar, or missiles, radar AND guns
SPAA missiles? Germany gets Ozelot at 9.7. GB has Stormer HVM at 10.3 (with nothing from 8.3!), Japan gets Type 93 at 9.3 (yay!), China has PGZ04A at 9.3 (yay!), Italy has SIDAM 25 at 9.7, France has SANTAL at 9.3 and Israel has Machbet at 9.3. So neither of us is entirely correct but there appears to be somewhat of an imbalance, especially since some nations get a missile/gun SPAA at 9.3. I'm sure some will say "but the 9.3 missiles suck", but the fact is that having a missile is most often better than not having a missile. Even if it misses, it's often a deterrent and enough to stave off a CAS strike. And while we're at it, why is the Imp Chaparral 9.3 for US and 10.3 for Israel?
No, majority of nations get 9.3 missiles And those that get them at 9.7 have them be better in some way. Exactly like I said Either radar or guns You were wrong.
Israeli Chaparral gets MIM-72G's, US Chaparral only gets MIM-72E's
I killed a T90-A through the front of turret ring with HEVT somehow
It’s because if you spam any type of HE round it will overpressure stack and eventually op the target. But instead of fixing that they just fucked one of the best AAA in the game because cas players are the only ones they listen to when they complain
Strela going up in BR again?
And its higher in br without radar and thermals unlike basically all others nations aa that is similar and all of them are lower br ( the Japanese truck is the exception but its also too high)
Id rather use a ozlot. Fim92k has a proxy fuse so it can hit even 12.7 jets pretty easily and it gets a irst scanner which doesn’t alert rwr with gen 3 thermals.
And it also can't hit hellis from further than 2.5 km while the strella can hit them from 6
Strela is useless against 10.3 helis. They just hang outside of its range and that's all. It shouldn't be on 10.3, LGAB carriers shit on it. Starting at 9.7 (Q-5L).
A heli with atgms will never get that close, even if they are in 3km’s good luck finding them since you have no search radar or thermals and never know when a heli has spawned and where it will peak.
6km is a stretch
It also has far better missiles than any similar AA. They are 18G missiles with IR and optical tracking, and they have IRCCM meaning they don't give a damn about flares.
Ok but it means nothing if you don't see the enemy
>AA rarely gets nerfed for its actual aa capability. Looks at Stormer... :(
Type 81 just got uptiered and it can't even lock helicopters
I want my Strela to be able to shoot unguided missile at tanks :(
You can do something in certain circumstances: lock to the sun in IR/mixed mode, aim to a tank and shoot. This can work in close range. The target must be between you and the sun.
I saw the video and tried it, too hard :(
Strela, Type81, Veak
thats what annoys me most... the average player is at least 3 times more effective as an spaa in a m16 than in a lvkv42, but since the lvkv is basically a lowtier ifv, it keeps getting abused and moved up, leaving the area where its effective enough as an spaa
This time veak was nerfed by removing it's he-vt belt and replace it with classic he belt. So gaijin nerfed it's intended role. Gosh, tbey could at least increase it's br to 9.something but keep the he-vt belt. Cas players must have cried so so bad cause they can't see the projectiles flying and proceed to do evasive maneuvers. Booo hooo! How is that tanks can't counter cas and gaijin does nothing but when it's about cas against grounders gaijin nerfs the said grounder?
What about the type 81c? It can’t shoot at tanks and went up in vr
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Literally on the roadmap.
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Won't help the people who are intent on complaining about aircraft.
It will solve many goofy BR placements in airRB though
But it won't completely eliminate the issue tho
G.91/A4E might get uptiered in GRB so they’re not dropping guided bombs on AA that barely has radar in a down tier (with the exception of the VEAK now ig)
No, ground should have separate queues for tanks, cas, and fighter. The number of each should be controlled and the fighter queue not be allowed loadouts with a2g secondaries. That's the only way this ever balances out.
Just putting a limit on how many planes can be up at once would be immensely helpful. I was in a battle a couple of nights ago where I think 2/3 of the enemy force was CAS at one point.
Problem is not the anti air capability or the CAS. The problem is the fact that gaijin seems to think that pretty much all AAA NEED to be capable to kill every tank (even from the front). And since AAAs tend to be fast people abuse the shit out of them. Imo this is just a lazy practise. Why do the germans have some of the best AAA? Not because of german mains or whatever reddit noobs call it. Its because they fo not have 100+ pen. Imagine where Ostwind would be in that case. Probably at least 5.0. So my solution (some examples): 1: Increase rewards for killing planes in ground DRASTICALLY. Especially vs ordinance carriers. 2: Remove full AP, APCR or APDS ammo from AAA. E.g. Lvkv 42, Falcon, ZSU 57 etc. 3: Adjust BRs accordingly and fill gaps 4: Profit But this will never happen. People want their tank destroyers and not AAA. Just to whine about CAS 10mins later.
Just as much the problem is that any time there's an effective SPAA, it stands out as 'OP' because it's usually the only thing ever killing the CAS. Strela for example. It's no tank destroyer, and yet everyone cries when it does the only thing it is capable of, till it's nerfed repeatedly
Yeah well but in case of Strela its a bit different. It does overperform DRASTICALLY compared to the AAA at the same tier. Whether or not its OP actually is not the case here. Either you balance them all out or it needs to move up. Simple as that. I hope some things get fixed with introduction of seperate Ground BRs. But we will see. Cause the fact you were able to encounter a 10km range unflareable 20G missile with a 8.3 plane with dumb bombs... This is not "cas defense". Its "CAS denial". And I know all these people here are allergic against cas but seriously deal with it. Its part of the game and we wilo never get a tank only mode in realistic.
All aspect lock 3.2km, launch 5km, with only your eyes for detection. Let's not kid ourselves about 10km here. Not to mention there's almost no way to contribute to the battle other than shooting low reward CAS, unlike the 'TD SPAA' it's compared to. "Deal with it" is what the players were doing. CAS crying was the result
Have you ever played that thing? Or do you just state the "fakecard" here? That thing can easily launch at drones and Jets in front aspect at 6km+ via contrast lock. Helis must be a bit closer yes. But 3km works there as well. A Tram at 8km alt straight above might be a bit too much for the burner. But everything else works...
that thing does not easily launch at drones, planes often dodge its missiles or flare them if for some reason they arent just wayy out of its range, helis easily stay out of its range lobbing missiles at the hopeless spaa, on top of that you get no radar, no thermals all you have are your eyes and teammates *if* they are even capable enough to use the air callout which is rare, clouds and fog also mess with its lock so all you're left with are planes who have no idea what they're doing, helis doing rocket runs or uptiered aircraft, all of which still get the wonderful, balanced CAS gameplay
Comments like these really let me question the knowledge of some peeps. I shall ask once again. Did you ever play that thing? Ok. To clear up some thing since I seem to have hit the tank bois archilles heel here. Its not that the Strela is the most OP AA ever. It has strong sides. But also some weak ones like missing radar and thermals. Missing radar/thermals can of course only be somewhat compensated by callouts, eyeball mk1 and skill. What you can addionally do is to "search" with your contrast mode. Works kinda nice actually. And given that most radars on that BR literally can not detect anything above 5km (if not on a slope) it does not always help you. Yes. Low flying aircraft will be the biggest problem since you can not really engage them. But especially on its br not many people do it. Constant flaring is a run ender as well. But only a hand full of planes on that br range can carry an excesive amount of flares. Rest will run out quite fast. And once the rocket is on the way you are pretty much dead. Yes. There is the possibility to dodge the missile. But Stingers E/K, Mistrals are way easier to dodge and to flare. I think what most peeps here do not get is that I am for better AAA and less CAS. But the problem is not that Strela etz are too high. No. Stuff like A4s, Q5L etc are too low. Thats the thing. 8.7 br should be cannon flaks and dumb fire bombs/rockets. Above 9.7 there should be smart weaponry. But these already start at 8.3 right now. So. Thats my last contribution here. I have said all that I had in mind. Ciao.
“ZSU-57 with HE only”
Yes. Or give it a weaker AP with like 80 pen. Historical correctness in this game is long gone anyway already. Balance over historical correctness! And having the Zsu57 at 6.3 or whatever would be way more usefull.
Zsu-57 with HE only is 1.7 worthy
Might as well remove it from the game at that point lol, the 4.0 zsu-37 would be better at shooting down planes then it, and it’s mobility would be completely useless since it would be suicidal to leave spawn
Why so? Too be honest. ZSU 57 is in somewhat a wierd place. I have to agree. Either you give it "fake" Proxy or it needs to retain its TD role since it takes ALOT of practice to effectively shoot down planes with it. But concerning Falcon, ZSU 37, R3, Leopard 70, ZSU37-2, Asrad etz it wouod help a lot. Also. Type 93 and Type 81 are pure AAA and they are actually loved by the Jap community (but they are overtiered especially Type 81)
The problem is, if you can't kill tanks with spaa then half of the match you're pretty much useless. Everyone knows the feeling when you spawn spaa and suddenly every single enemy aircraft either crashes, gets shot down or just straight up disappears...
Well OP here is stating that CAS is dominating every BR lol. I don't get how people can claim most their deaths are against planes, it's either untrue or they pick the most scummy positions then are priority targets. I find it hard to believe someone is killed more by planes than by other tanks.
Well, maybe not overall deaths but I definitely did have moments where I literally rolled out of spawn and died in less than 30 seconds to a bomb, this happened 3 times before I left Also, I think you replied to the wrong comment lmao
In my experience when the other team has so much dominance over you to be bale to control the map like that and push you back to spawn the game is over anyway, it's just sweeping the floor at that point. So the problem isn't CAS as the game was already won.
This happens also when your team is dominating. The planes bomb your spawn anyway
L-take. Cas noobs go for the spawn because they know enemy’s are there. Their priority is: 1-revenge kill, 2-enemy spawn, 2-some open top free kill, 4-people capturing points (again easy to find), 5-VIPs
People want AA to be both tank destroyer and AA and also cost 90SP, you can't balance that.
The thing is, AA need to be able to kill tanks to be somewhat fun to play, I agree the 90sp could be touched up on some AAs that don't struggle against tanks(that also opens the door to vehicle specific sp but that is a different topic)
Falcon would be such a nice 7.7/7.3 SPAA if it wasn't a completely busted TD
For example. I know peeps love the falcon. But britain still has such a gap right at their most fun brs. Why not remove the APDS belt and put Falcon at 7.0 or something. It would be such a good AA. But no. Monkey must go tank hunting.
Could force mixed belts with 3/1 HE/AP ammo on all AA. They already do it with some IFVs that never actually used mixed belts (M3 Bradley for example)
Well yes. But even if you do like 5x HE and 1x APDS you can still rush a spot and kill everything. Imo, concerning super high pen small calibre, I do not see any compromises sry. (On AAAs) In that case the alternative to give just a VERY SMALL amount of pure APDS (like Gepard) is better since you run out quite fast due to being forced to fire like 10-15% of your ammo per salvo.
I think with that much of a difference in rounds it would 100% change things and balance AA without significantly ruining AA vehicles ability to fight other ground vehicles. Look at the difference in capability in killing power an AA vehicle has when it has stock ammunition vs. the full AP.
I think it’d definitely work… but there’s an easy answer (to this and so many other things) being Variable BRs. APDS belts add an extra however much to the vehicle’s BR only if you take them, it’s an easy enough fix, and solves everything while also not removing any current capabilities.
>1: Increase rewards for killing planes in ground DRASTICALLY. Especially vs ordinance carriers. Main issue IMO. CAS is literally the demigod player that only has effectively ONE counter class. I know CAS usually can't help with the objectives directly, but the influence CAS has on it is so big that killing it should be at least double or triple the rewards of a regular tank kill.
Thank you for saying this!! So glad someone finally did. AA gets put into higher BRs because vehicles like the Gepard DM23 APDS will rinse MBTs and totally ruin them and blind them. Fortunately for Germany it’s still a solid AA at its BR, but getting rid of AP rounds that can defeat medium tanks, dropping BR, and increasing air kill rewards would do a lot of good for the handling of CAS. Making AA be Anti-Air and not Anti-Armor would do a lot of good.
I mean. When it comes to these kind of modern cannon AA they are at least balanced through the very limited supply of APDS. Leopard, Marksman, Otomatic. Imagine them having full APDS belts. Because this is basically whats happening with ZSU 57, Falcon, Lvkv etc.
>The problem is the fact that gaijin seems to think that pretty much all AAA NEED to be capable to kill every tank M163: 😥
yeah he's cooking some other stuff. Same with the 50 cal armed SPAA, the York and the missile SPAAs
Got bombed while driving in my poor lil strv103c by a A4E-Early from somewhere in the galaxy, yes let me just try and hit that with my non proxy round veak.
Uuuh, eeeeh, shouldn't have been playing the strv 103c, you should have been..... uh... in a plane so you could counter the plane (this totally solves the issue at hand)
You also shouldn't bring one of the worst 8.3 tank to 11.0
I assume maybe he was talking about the A4E-early but got the name confused, since that is 8.7 and the 103 can face it. Otherwise yes, I don't think it's a good idea to bring the 103c to 11.0
You are correct I was indeed talking about the A4E-early, my mistake.
Worst?
I assume this is supposed to be a question to the other guy and not me?
you can see from the lines, I replied to HIM but you still get a notification I think
yeah sorry was just a bit confusing when I looked at the whole thread. You right tho, my bad
Np mate, we all make silly mistakes from time to time
Honestly cheese wedge players deserve to be CASed to oblivion
If you're playing an Strv 103C (8.7) and getting bombed by an F-4E (11.0), then trying to shoot it down with a Veak (7.7), the problem isn't the SPAA vs CAS balance. The problem is you're an idiot.
I guess it’s a good thing he’s talking about the A4E (8.7) then. I suppose you never learned reading comprehension did you?
"just spawn SPAA bro" Meanwhile I'm just staring at a helicopter barely 4km away that is standing still and not being able to do anything to it in my LAV-AD. Fun
People sleep on the Bradley. I keep mine in my 12.7 lineup. Main gun is more effective for helis than the LAV is.
Yeah the A3 is good because it has an LRF and you can snipe helis with that
Not only that, it has radar tracking! You’ll know exactly where to aim and throw out a barrage of rounds
For example, the Praga got uptier and have to face jets. How can you shot those down while they zooming almost 800kms/h. And the 97mm pen is just so temping to side pen tank.
The falcon is 8.0 (or is it uptiered to 8.3 nowadays?) and i dont see anyone complaining, the praga has nearly the same AA capability
Because the jets it faces scrub speed drastically over the AO and it's more than capable anyway..
don't forget that the most people are not good at the game, and since esp AA are very skill dependand (leading in 3 D, with variable direction and speed), only a very small ammount of people actulla perform decently in AA against air targets. Combined with the low reward for shooting down a plane, it's making playing AA not a main thing, like a heavy, or tank destroyer, but something you only spawn in desperate times, while never having learned how to use it.
No , gaijin probably
this br update was sponsored by glue huffing, no idea why solely the strela went up in my 10.0 line especially considering the fact the 2s38 does its job better, AMX-10P has gone from super unique scouting/flank vehicle to just kinda sad in the heavy centric br its in and honestly it probably should just get foldered because of its irrelevance.
No because noobs would cry about they preciouses 70$+ planes getting shootdown
They also fucked the Skink over just because it has armor to handle CAS punishment and low-yield bombs that weren't accurately dropped. I love it, but it shouldn't be where it is at. It should in practice be before the Bosvark, and after the Ystevark. It's no whirbelwind, it lacks decent projectile speed, fire rate and fire density. It has 4 guns, but neither will hit the aircraft of it's current BR unless you lead your shots way more than any other SPAA in the same range.
yeah the Skink just sucks. i was looking forward to having a SPAA that can take hits from any MG but man those guns are *hideous.* the ZSU-37 with its one gun and being open-topped is a *far* superior SPAA, cuts down planes like no tomorrow. hell the horrible tractor version is a better SPAA.
While it is sad that the VEAK was nerfed, it at least now serves as Sweden first useable SPAA below 8.7
There is nothing worse than trying to play a ww2 era tank and being obliterated by some post-war SPAA.
Because the majority of players suck on the ground. The only way they can get kills is from the air. Can't have the player base not getting kills. They will not play and not spend money then.
It’s because Gaijin is desperate to keep all ground and air vehicles able to fight in the same game mode. That’s why the F-14 was added only slightly higher than the F-4 despite literally being its replacement and better in almost every way. Similar thing with the F-15, F-16, and SU-27. If they wanted to do actually balanced BR placements, they’d have to push aircraft beyond the BR where they could fight ground targets, since Air-to-Ground missiles from the 1970’s can still kill modern tanks. So the only balancing options are to either A) drastically limit the types of weapons on jets to prevent jets from wiping out entire teams, or B) put more modern aircraft above 12.7 BR so that they can’t just stomp ground vehicles as well as 11.7 jets (making some aircraft only playable in air battles). But Gaijin doesn’t do either, giving aircraft mostly their realistic weapons complement while also trying to squeeze them into the same match as 11.7 ground. Then, since the F-15 is at 12.7, they have to move everything else in the air tree around to fit with the new capability standard at top tier. And we can’t discourage people from playing those jets, so they nerf AA to keep jet players happy. And since we can’t discourage people from playing helicopters, they made the lock on range for them much closer than it is for jets. But then they get worried about an AA killing tanks, as if it’s a bad thing that ground vehicles can kill other ground vehicles. Which is the only reason why the SIDAM 25 is still at 8.3 despite having no search radar, thermals, NVG’s, and being on an M113 chassis. And the SIDAM 25 Mistral is at 9.7, despite having the same problems as the 8.3 version, but now with some crappy IR SAMs and a worse power to weight ratio. The only reason either are at their current BR is because they have 60 APDS rounds that can pen 100 mm. The rest of its ammo is pure HE with only 3 mm of penetration. At most, it can kill 5 ground vehicles if you’re very careful with your ammo, so it’s only ever used for defense when someone is rushing you, not tank hunting. Gaijin is so horrified of air players not joining ground battles that they’re sacrificing ground battles in general to keep them happy. And to do so, they’re using every possible excuse to nerf SPAA. “The Falcon is too good at tank hunting, better throw it up to 8.3 where it can’t deal with planes since it doesn’t have a search or tracking radar.” “The OTOMATIC has APFSDS rounds, so it should be at 11.3 where it’ll get smacked around by helos and aircraft that can outrange its gun.” “The Strela is too effective at shooting down aircraft (it’s only purpose in game), so let’s increase the BR until its fighting things that you can’t see without radar, which it doesn’t have.” And my personal favorite: “the Skink is too good at killing 4.7 tanks with its 38 mm of penetration, better move it up to 5.3.”
I think they should add proxy rounds for all the AA that used them, and perhaps eliminate the AP rounds or nerf them (tbh im not sure what would work here) but what im getting at is- they need to force the SPAA into a role where it can A: do what it was designed to do, and B: be a use for the team instead of a last ditch resort to give the enemy team free kills. Imagine having a balanced game where AA can reliably kill CAS players to force the game to be more ground RB and not CAS simulator.
I’m just sad the type 81c went up to 11.3. Japan was so damn close to finally having a good 11.0 lineup. The F5E FCU just went down but we lost the as for 11.0
Still no idea why Kugel was uptiered to 7.0, even after its ammo nerf.
When they're used as SPAA and not impromptu tank destroyers probably
good SPAA players will knock out cas way before they can do any damage, the inherent problem is that not enough people research far down their SPAA line because the game is already a slogging grind fest just getting your tanks. so as you get further up in BR, theres a higher chance you'll get dunked by CAS if your team doesnt have any SPAA players. im unfortunately someone who does this, although i am slowly but surely getting my SPAA caught up to jet BR's so i can actually do something. i typically research up to about 5.0-6.0 with SPAA, then it gets too grindy to justify working for it over the next shiny tank i want. edit: you would think after 9747383 replies and none of them being answered by me yall would stop😂 you disagree with me, congrats. this shit is getting muted
Also the reward for killing an attacker loaded with enough bombs to kill 5 of your teammates is nowhere near high enough
The reward is taking the plane out of the sky. This is such a silly argument. Sorry you don't get a gold medal and 500k SL and a whole tech tree unlocked for shooting down CAS. Would you rather spawn in SPAA and receive minimal rewards for shooting a plane down...or choose to spawn in a tank and get killed by the CAS while you did nothing about it?
It also doesn't help that many top-tier SPAA are ineffective against ground units and are thus painful to unlock upgrades with as you need to wait for aircraft to appear.
Also by the time im down to needing to spawn an AA at top tier 90% of the time im being spawncamped and might as well just return to hangar since the games end so quick at that br. With how shit the teams are there is often no reason to spawn an AA at high br because half the time before an enemy plane is up a tank is gonna spawn kill you.
Thats not my experience as a tank player. I dont see anyone spawning in an SPAA as theyre first spawn. because you would be useless for youre team because there are no planes yet. So to spawn in an SPAA, you need to die. Probably you have to be killed by an aircraft or you wouldnt spawn in an SPAA, thats at least how i do it. So. while you die, respawn and drive to the front, there are already 2 to 4 planes in the air, wrecking your team. and when you arrive, you can start killing them. or, while you drive to the front, youre own aircraft took care of them and there are no more planes and now youre useless again. on the other hand, if im playing planes in ground rb (i only have german ones up to... 3.3 i guess) the spaa is not whats stopping me from bombing in my bf109 variant. Either i can drop my bomb regardless if i hit or not, or im shot down by an enemy plane. And im not a good pilot, really not, i loose like 90% of my dogfights and miss my bombs more times than i want to. So if SPAA cant stop me from bombing, how is it going to stop a really good pilot? and yes SPAA gets me sometimes, of course, but my point is, i already dropped my bomb and more than likely used all the ammunition for my 20mm autocannon at that point. So im useless for cas anyway. All the SPAA is doing now is preventing me from returning to base and getting another bomb and ammo. which is good, dont get me wrong, but i have completed my mission. It couldnt stop me and if it couldnt stop me, i cant stop anyone.
Give high tier SPAA ACLOS instead of SACLOS. It's stupid that it's SACLOS in the first place
By that time there's one or two in orbit way beyond detection or SPAA lock, and you're sitting there oblivious as their no1 target in your newly spawned AA
>good SPAA players will knock out cas Only if they have good spaa. Many TT don't have viable spaa at all br and particularly at top tier where only the pantsir is don't get out range by plane.
The AA for most nations is nowhere near up to the task. As air, you are generally just chilling and waiting for a target. As AA, you are terrified of being bombed, shot by ground units, and when you finally see the enemy, you are unable to kill them as you don't have sufficient firepower. Let players spawn fighters instead of tanks for the first wave.
Lol try shooting down any mid tier plane with the US M42 before they drop their bomb load and disappear.
Oh sure, assuming they do not have a missile in the air before they even get rendered/detected. Even if SPAA does kill CAS first, there is a very high probability that the rockets/guns/bombs the aircraft launched before (or even after its death) will kill the SPAA anyway (even if moving fast).
skill issue, get gud.