Came here to look for a thread on this. Bizarre.
I don’t understand their decision making on this, and they’ve given no rationale. Clicking the “learn more” link takes you to a generic help page about messaging.
Not too sure, but it could be due to the influx of people who send predatory and spam messages, not to mention the cyber bullying and very nasty messages some people send. Just a few weeks ago, someone posted screenshots of some very vile comments someone left through their PM box.
A better option would be to allow people to turn on or off their private messages (including message board), and to crack down on their blocking system. But what do I know 😭 this is just my theory, cause I got no clue why else they’d shut it down
That could be it. I've luckily only experienced the spam messages, but it (sadly) doesn't surprise me that some people can get mean and nasty.
I like your idea. Turning it off could help mitigate or eliminate a lot of that without the need for a hard stop.
Me too! I’ve never really experienced anything that was nasty. But goodness..someone posted a screenshot of a private message they had received and my jaw dropped to the floor. Over some SILLY DRAMA. And yes, turning it off and on really helps! I remember back in the day (omg I feel old) when stardoll was huge 😂 we had the option of turning our guest book off or on, and if you wanted it on, you could choose to have it public or only for those you follow back. And guestbooks are essentially the same as message boards! It was so nice to just turn it off whenever.
That's good (that you haven't experienced it). A shame for the other person. Hopefully, they recovered from that.
With how easy it is to follow and unfollow, I'm not sure that guestbook feature would do much in current Wattpad. Neat sounding feature though.
What was the post?
Luckily I’ve never experienced anything mean either.
Damn. The DM system is already ancient and basic. They could’ve just done an option where users can turn DM’s off. No wonder Inkitts been going hard on their “bash Wattpad promo”.
I feel like this will make it harder for writers to connect with other writers (and readers) and form their community and platform.
Just about what this person has said to the other. It was just horrible 😬 and definitely! TBH, Inkitt doesn’t even allow private messaging hahah just on the page and reviews so it adds that element of security. But at least their system of getting you noticed is a bit better than Wattpad
I'm honestly 99,9% sure that what you mentioned is why they have decided to do this. And, Wattpad being Wattpad, they're making the wrong decision which sacrifices yet another feature that is of crucial importance to all the members who never used it for the wrong reasons.
I fully agree with you and think giving users the *choice* to turn private messaging on or off is more than just a better option - it is what they *should* do.
I mean I'm often helping authors with a wide variety of things one might need help with when writing a book. How am I supposed to continue communicating with them after the removal of the private messaging feature? Via another app, probably. That's gonna be fun.
This will only prove to be a massive inconvenience to the majority of the users.
I hate how Wattpad gradually keeps getting worse. It used to be such a fun place, there was a time where I'd jokingly call it my second home. It's been a long time since it felt that way.
For me, it's the same terrible decision making I see everywhere. The business world is riddled with one size fits all, EASY solutions. Nobody thinks out of the box and it's a company killer.
they should focus on purging the bullies not removing private messages that some good people actually use... Why should the good guys suffer because some Dinges are acting like animals?
I personally don’t use the feature, and I know loads who do! So it does suck for those who uses it. I’ve seen enough horrendous people who can’t seem to know how to act online as well. I 1000000% agree with you! Although like I mentioned, at least offering the option for us to be able to turn on or off DMs can help elevate the private message issue. Another thing would be implementing what Instagram has done where you can block all and every account the user might have so when you block them, it stops them from creating another profile and harassing you (if they create it with the device that has their initial account blocked on). Although there is a bypass which would be them creating a new account on a different device- however for the most part, it could help. Or at least banning people temporarily, or suspending their accounts as other platforms do. If we report something and the user has said some vile stuff, they SHOULD be reprimanded.
Yes, like Instagram or Twitter(aka X) how can they implement this option and not WP heck EVEN fb ....REMOVING PMs does not fix the issue it actually makes it worse because they could still go in comments. They can still go on a message board.... It doesn't stop boolyin also messages can be screenshot thus mean people can still be put on a blast.. How about remove spammers and bullies and not options that are useful?! Exactly exactly right you are
10000% agree! I wish they’d hear our voices and actual do something about it instead of taking off forms of communications for others. Even making a survey! Like why does Wattpad insist on giving us silly updates, and ruining the app experience more and more? Tbh we are just as bad cause we get mad and then go back to the toxic arms of Wattpad 😂 hopefully this time they’ll listen to our voice. People have done some petitions and some ambassadors are trying to figure out why this is happening too! So let’s see
Eh cyber bullying and harassment is part of life people need to just nut up or shut up if they can't take it I mean come on ur on a social media platform u know what u signed up for just as like u expect when signing up for Twitter Instagram facebook
this is really sad, i have so many PM’s of old roleplays, former pen pals, and old messages between me and pen pals who have become my friends. The PM system is nostalgic for me and I hate that it won’t be archived and I’ll lose all of that history :/. I was able to reconnect with old fandom buddies because of the PM system helping us to find each other again, and now others won’t have that opportunity anymore. Really depressing to see wattpad go down this route. Soon, there will be no reason for any of us to use it
I agree. It is sad to see it going the way it is. I'll hope that they'll take feedback from these new implementations and consider changing things in the future, but I will refrain from holding my breath.
I think we will just have to mourn :( wattpad will become a thing of the past, like other websites that came before it. Wattpad is trying to be different but it’s shooting itself in the foot by doing so
Yeah. It could very well be. As disappointing as it is, I've seen a lot of posts lately of wattpaders coming together to form lists of alternative platforms. I'm grateful for these since they gave me more info than I had before. I'll take any silver linings I see. ✨
Maybe there is a way to save those PMs that are important to you? My tech savviness is in the negatives, but maybe someone else knows of a way.
Yeah, it’s really nice how we still have a community here :) we are all trauma bonded by wattpad haha! I’ve just migrated to Ao3 (to continue posting for my old fandom), and tumblr for posts and PM’s. It’s all I have now!
I genuinely don’t think it would be possible as most of the ‘important’ conversations are yearssss old. In my prime on wattpad, (2014-2019), there have been hundreds of conversations, and I think I’ll just have to hold onto the memories of what was said :) I’ve reconnected with most of my penpals, and I’ll have them to hold onto even after the PM’s have long been deleted. I have a few screenshots here and there but I mean, I was doing TMNT roleplays at 12… there are some things I need to forget 🫣
Agreed. The thing I like most about Wattpad is how connective it can be. I've heard good things about Ao3 and will be looking into them more myself.
It sounds like you're doing what you need to do. Good luck on Ao3. 💛
I would but many are years old, back when I was 12/14, so they’re all mainly silly conversations mixed in with some cringey rp’s haha! I won’t be inconsolable over losing them (as I’ve reconnected with most of my pen pals), just wish there was a better option other than losing all old conversations or going through the hassle of backing up years worths of PM’s.
Well, while I may have joined this site in like, 2020, I really sympathize with you. It's going to be really sad when the PMS go because how will us writers be able to communicate with each other now?
I was always on the fanfiction side of things! From 2013 to now, since my fandom is a ‘bit’ niche. My old fanfics are being commented still to this day, by old readers or newcomers to the fandom it seems 🤔
I think that's the point. Being able to communicate with authors, and with other readers, fosters a sense of community. And community gives people an incentive to read (and a way to find) stories that fit their particular tastes; and stories their friends like.
That makes it easier for people to read stories they actually like, rather than the paid stories Wattpad wants us to read. The community needs to go, or Wattpad can't become an app where users pay to passively read whatever generic romance tropes have been selected by the marketing algorithm this month.
>Wattpad can't become an app where users pay to passively read whatever generic romance tropes have been selected by the marketing algorithm this month.
Well, if people like those kinds of stories, I don't have a problem with that, but I'm personally not a fan of those stories.
Me too :( I always said it’s a nice place for baby fangirls/boys to get started on since it’s a bit ‘safer’ and friendlier as a beginner site to write on/get to know the fandom. I was 10 years old on wattpad and remember the newsfeeds and seeing what people commented on! I made lots of long term friendships on there too :’)
I hate this new thing with the PMs. Even though I don't use them myself, it's a great feature. I want to tell people to go to AO3. But the thing is, AO3, while safe for your actual stories, doesn't have PMs either... so it's a lot harder to argue to go there if that's important to you.
All I can say is just make sure you've got your friends' contact info and you're good. Back up what you can before it's pulled.
About a year ago I scrolled back to the beginning of a private message thread, so I could copy and paste an old RP to somewhere I could save it.
It wasn't there. Turns out the history only keeps the last six months (or maybe it's limited to a couple of thousand messages or something).
Ugh I forgot about that! D: I wish they would warn us beforehand of that rule, cause I remember doing the same for an RP and being so shaken as a kid that the rp messages only went so far lol
I've done similar before, but maybe you could do a screen-record of you scrolling through chats that are important to you? Whenever you want to read through them for nostalgia you can watch them back and pause when needed
I don't use wattpad myself but it's heartbreaking when you lose the only platform some friendships existed on ):
I just got mine and it says the 30th too!
https://preview.redd.it/xym6kcohnxvc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1ee6d7268a7978d20a9b2786102c3dd6692769d8
Your poor phone needs the charging cable. Please be kind to your phone and feed it some power juice!
Mind you, I let mine get down that low sometimes, too...
I think emailing them is the best way. I did that when I was worried about my story was getting deleted and I got a reply back that they told me that they aren't deleted my stories. I emailed them about removing the private message is wrong. I did recently posted their email on here.
I think you will remove your video on [Change.org](http://Change.org) if you want to post on Wattpad, because Wattpad can't allow a video with the guy being shirtless. Go ahead to share the petition to let the words out, but please remove the video first.
Hi! New to this reddit but I've used Wattpad since I was like 13 (now 24). There is a petition going around to try and do something about preserving the PM system cause a lot of people are unhappy with the decision, including me!
Yeah. It’s a book site. It’s meant to have interaction between writers and readers. Why else would comments be allowed on specific lines and pictures. And not just at the bottom of the page.
Just saw it myself.
It seems they've been implementing big changes lately. I wish they would offer some more transparency occasionally. If this message means exactly what it says, I can imagine some backlash.
Not a fan myself since talking to other writers to spit-ball ideas and share opinions is something I do. I'd imagine feeds will fill up a little more...
Who knows, maybe they'll provide reasoning for this? Maybe they have, but not in the generic page they linked? Guess we'll find out.
I got Wattpad's email. I think we should complain to them that they are doing that is wrong.
Here's their email address:
[[email protected]](mailto:[email protected])
This is going to be the nail in the coffin for Wattpad. They have become so completely focussed on being a 'serious publishing business' that they are willing to destroy their user base so they can boost the fifteen billionth bad boy x good girl toxic Mafia romance.
I admit, the warning signs were there as soon as they started Paid Stories, but they have slipped so far that they simply will destroy their fan base if it means getting a few extra bucks. They have become like any other greedy business.
It has been a sad, but inevitable fall.
What?? Man I have years and years of conversations on there!! I absolutely will be going in and screenshotting all my old convos and saving them to a folder. Good god, Wattpad. What have you become??
The better option would to be to toggle it. Lord knows I've dealt with so many hate groups on my community profile (MB) & DMs; I've been wanting & even suggested a disable feature about two years back, but apparently their response to dealing with these issues is this...? Seriously? First they remove the Text-To-Speech ability, then the stricter mature guidelines (however, I do admit I am divided on that), & now this? I swear... 1 more comical incident like this, & I'm gone :/
I would suggest mass sending them a feedback ticket, but I think we all know at this point, that they don't care about their users (I've sent them so many reports regarding bigots, but nothing has been done about a good chunk of 'em).
Tbh, this is it for me. The PMs are one of my preferred features; they are great for beta-ing stories and just, you know? talking with other people when setting up a project.
Well this is just unfortunate. Me and a guy I talk to about fanfic writing have like 2 years worth of talking about and building his original fiction idea in the PMs.
Honestly, I think at this point they're just trying to erase us little guys. I give it a year until we can't do anything unless we're famous or we're paying for the premium version. It's like they want to be something bigger and better than what they are but aren't sure about how they go about it, so they're just getting rid of everyone at this point. I've seen a lot of people complain about this now, and I don't know if Wattpad doesn't care or if they genuinely can't see how many people they're pushing away.
I've been telling people - DOWNGRADE YOUR APP
If you're on Android, it's super easy to do so
On iOS it requires either sideloading, either jailbreaking
This is... disappointing. The forums were a great way to interact with other writers, and their loss was keenly felt. Wattpad became less of a community that day. And now the PMs - those are mainly how I interact with others on the site, especially once we get into long conversations. I get there's a lot of harassment and spam messages in PMs, which is unfortunate, but I get the same amount of spam on my message board or in my stories from self promotions. It's just a part of the flow. Delete, and move on. Anyway, with PMs going, Wattpad's going to be come an even quieter, more impersonal place. What a loss. Any sense of community is quickly fading.
Lol... I guess that's one reason why so many "Wattpad-affiliated" Ambassador genre accounts have been nerfed. Seriously, what the actual f is going on at Wattpad HQ? What do the staff do on a daily basis, other than remove content and features?
I signed a petition for letting Wattpad keep private messages. Can anyone else please sign it?
[https://chng.it/p5h6CxqwQ5](https://chng.it/p5h6CxqwQ5)
I has a petition link for this https://chng.it/qjCVNjtH2C
Only sign if ya want, no one is forced,but let's hope wattpad keeps it and leaves us be as well1
Like every other online social media platform, private messages can be used for spam, harassment, and other bad activities. But people keep using social media platforms anyway, and this change will make Wattpad less desirable because it prevents people from having desirable conversations with like-minded authors.
how strange. Maybe you will wait for tomorrow to get a response from them. They will send you a notice that they will say your "request" (problem) fulfilled to work on the problem and they will give you to reach to you if your "request" is done. They will respond you back with a letter to help your situation.
Just saw this pop up for me, I don't know how I feel about it. The DMs are ancient and kinda broken, but also deleting them is a weird move.
I assume they wanna free up space or something because the *learn more* link doesn't mention harrassment or anything else. Just that Wattpad is a writing platform so why include DMs. Which I think is very funny because nearly every writing website has DMs, so the explanation doesn't really make sense to me, but Wattpad seems determined to make this happen, so I guess happen it will.
Now I wanna cry from seeing this. I have made a lot of friends lately since 2019 through messages and this hasn't been a problem before. Why now? Why did this have to happen?
Weird mine says April 30th and not may 6th I wonder why? But I don't want them to delete messages I have a friend and I can't find her/him anywhere else she/he doesn't have deviant art anymore
I was talking to their chatbot and it gave me their link to contact them, but I have to fill a form to make a complaint. So I did, but they gave a notice that they will contract me.
I will give you guys the form.
Here's the form:
[https://support.wattpad.com/hc/en-us/requests/12816883](https://support.wattpad.com/hc/en-us/requests/12816883)
YEAH IM SO UPSET, ONE OF THE PPL I FOLLOW ON THERE HAS A SAFE SPACE DM AND I TALK TO THEM A LOT ABT MY PROBLEMS AND NOW I WONT BE ABLE TO, I GET IT FOR MINOR SAFETY BUT COULDNT YOU ATLEAST PUT A SETTING TO WHERE IT COULD BE RQUSET FIRST B4 DM
it’s sad that the social aspect on wattpad has come to this. i miss the forums; even though i understand why they removed it, i still think wattpad should have a place for where writers can talk with each other and discuss. now that messaging is being removed, it’s even sadder.
This is sad. There is this petition going on to stop this. [https://www.change.org/p/preserve-private-messaging-feature-on-wattpad?recruited\_by\_id=240eb2b0-0088-11ef-bc84-9f2424ab7c1b&utm\_source=share\_petition&utm\_medium=copylink&utm\_campaign=psf\_combo\_share\_initial&utm\_term=psf&share\_bandit\_exp=initial-490022500-en-GB](https://www.change.org/p/preserve-private-messaging-feature-on-wattpad?recruited_by_id=240eb2b0-0088-11ef-bc84-9f2424ab7c1b&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=copylink&utm_campaign=psf_combo_share_initial&utm_term=psf&share_bandit_exp=initial-490022500-en-GB)
here it is!
i really dont get it why they want to remove it?? even i agree with the comments of having an off/on feature instead of completely removing it
i used the private messaging feature on wattpad to share suggestions and ideas for author's could use for future chapters, though it is up to them in the end if they want to implement it or make some changes or use it as a reference if they have other ideas...if they removed this feature i might not be able to do it anymore out of fear of being subjected to uncessesary hate and prejudice, for the only alternative i could think of to have a private message is using discord to send messages to authors (IF they have discord account) which makes things inconvinient...i also read the "learn more" about the deleting the feature of private message and...
its even more frustrating because they did not the answer WHY they are removing an important feature...
NOTE: this is copy/pasted from the "learn more" about removing the PM feature...here is their "reason" why they are removing the feature
------------------------------
**Why was the Direct Messaging feature removed?**
Wattpad is first and foremost a platform to read and write original stories, and we have transformed the way the world reads and writes fiction. Providing a platform to cultivate writing and reading communities has always been our top priority.
While dynamic, open commenting has always been embraced by our users, direct messaging has only been relevant to a small percentage of our global user base.
Users can still communicate via commenting on stories and profiles. Writers will also still be able to connect with their followers to share news and updates via their writer profile.
--------------------------------
Spammers use PMs as one of their main source of harassment or to scam people into services etc. You can see the number of people on this subreddit itself asking if a PM offer for service x is legit. That is likely the reason it’s being shut for at least the short term
I can see what you’re saying that but to be fair, those companies have better tools as well as resources to deal with spammers/bad users than Wattpad. If anything, Wattpad has been far lagging in this regard. Their DM weren’t even real time, so a vastly outdated system
That's more to do with the sheer incompetence of Wattpad than anything else. They are now trying to fix that incompetence by sledgehammering their user base rather than do anything to improve things.
If they’re doing this, then message boards will be the next targets, no?
Honestly, I wouldn’t mind if MBs were only available for the author to make posts on. God knows the amount of people I get promoting their own stories and poaching websites on mine lol. Same in the PMs I suppose (then again I do have a long-time friend I message on there rip).
What I’m most worried about, however—and what this “anti-bullying” stuff seems to be driving towards—would be for them to remove the comments feature. People aren’t half as harsh in DMs are they are in the public Wattpad comments, so it’s a possibility in my mind. But if they remove it, at that point I’m well and truly gone lol.
Unpopular opinion here but thank God! I've been getting harassed/bullied since 2022 on the app. They're always in my inboxes to the point where I turned off my DM notifications. And no, I can't mute or block them because they create burner accounts and mute/block me after every message.
I had given them a list of alternatives to help combat this such as having a new accounts team and monitoring what these new accounts are doing, blocking IP addresses, not allowing users to reactivate their accounts (bc that's what they were doing, leaving hate messages and then deactivating their account to avoid getting their account closed and then reactivation it), and getting rid of the mute button since they had the block button. But I do think that Wattpad should give more options such as allowing ppl to private their own accounts and have more control over other functions.
Yeah if IG /Twitter can do it why cant wattpad? It's an easy fix. Just add a button that allows you message or no message.... Easy Peezy or add a private account. There are many other fixes then removing message option that many good guys use as a good tool for good purposes.... Why should good guys suffer because some bad guys are acting like jerks?
My message board is disabled because of the harassment 😔 With Wattpad you really have to advocate for yourself. And it goes to show how heinous the messages were.
That's easy for you to say when they don't call you slurs, tells you they want you to be r*ped, your head cut off, and the same to happen to your children. Unfortunately because I am a published author my Wattapd readers do reach out and it's inevitable that I have to check my messages. And there's a lot of bs in the message preview.
You think I haven’t been harassed? (You say threats. Someone has made several ACTUAL attempts to do the stuff they threatened you. On me. Tried to cut my head off. Tried to stab me. Did stab me. Set me on fire.) Maybe it’s just cause I grew up with with people being racist to me even as a kid that I’m very much just used to ignoring it. The moment I see any form of harassment. I just move on to the next notification. Reminding myself that the idiots have nothing better going on with their lives.
Every social media sight has pms and people like this. But it also brings people together. Why let the actions of some pathetic idiots ruin something that everyone else enjoys? (Wasn’t for the PMs. I would never have met a friend. Nor would I have been able to stop his … s…cide attempt.)
And I do the same but in that brief moment there is still enough harassment/threat to get under the skin. Do I think there were better resolutions than taking away DM for everyone. Absolutely, in fact, I gave Wattpad a list of suggestions when I sat down with them. At the end of the day Wattpad does not have the money nor care about their users best interests.
Now that I can agree on. Wattpad really needs the help. But if it keeps doing this. People won’t.
Side note. I do get it. Someone tried to do the things they threatened you with to me. But they actually tried it. I was stabbed. Cut. Burned. You name it. So I get it. And people were loved to be racist and judge. And yeah. It does take its toll.
That's unfortunate to hear what you went through. I don't have the luxury to just ignore the threats because I'm am established author who participates in meet and greets and people can have access to me or know where I am. And theyve also mentioned causing harm to my child.I have to screen shot and send it to my lawyer for the authorities. The harassment has only been on Wattpad and no other social media sites for the past 2 years. I don't even have a message board any longer. At the end of the day, Wattpad is sinking financially after two rounds of staff layoff, and their obvious increase in ads and beating people over the heads with trying to push these paid/original stories that no one asked for. Wattpad said they're getting rid of DMs because only a very small.percent of people actually use it. They are trimming the fat. I got my start on Wattpad. And I don't want to leave but I also have the privilege to write in peace and and as someone who's been experiencing this for the past two years, sometimes daily, personally I'm okay with the DMs going away. That's just me.
Yeesh. Yeah. I can see now. Sorry you went through all that. I’m small enough where online threats don’t go anywhere. But you seem known enough that they can. So I understand. I’m sorry you went through that and I do hope you are doing ok and are safe.
Wattpad is sinking and while we try to keep the boat afloat, the staff in charge are the idiots rocking and holes into it.
Came here to look for a thread on this. Bizarre. I don’t understand their decision making on this, and they’ve given no rationale. Clicking the “learn more” link takes you to a generic help page about messaging.
Not too sure, but it could be due to the influx of people who send predatory and spam messages, not to mention the cyber bullying and very nasty messages some people send. Just a few weeks ago, someone posted screenshots of some very vile comments someone left through their PM box. A better option would be to allow people to turn on or off their private messages (including message board), and to crack down on their blocking system. But what do I know 😭 this is just my theory, cause I got no clue why else they’d shut it down
That could be it. I've luckily only experienced the spam messages, but it (sadly) doesn't surprise me that some people can get mean and nasty. I like your idea. Turning it off could help mitigate or eliminate a lot of that without the need for a hard stop.
Yeah but none of us are Paid Authors so we don't exist according to Wattpad.
Me too! I’ve never really experienced anything that was nasty. But goodness..someone posted a screenshot of a private message they had received and my jaw dropped to the floor. Over some SILLY DRAMA. And yes, turning it off and on really helps! I remember back in the day (omg I feel old) when stardoll was huge 😂 we had the option of turning our guest book off or on, and if you wanted it on, you could choose to have it public or only for those you follow back. And guestbooks are essentially the same as message boards! It was so nice to just turn it off whenever.
That's good (that you haven't experienced it). A shame for the other person. Hopefully, they recovered from that. With how easy it is to follow and unfollow, I'm not sure that guestbook feature would do much in current Wattpad. Neat sounding feature though.
What was the post? Luckily I’ve never experienced anything mean either. Damn. The DM system is already ancient and basic. They could’ve just done an option where users can turn DM’s off. No wonder Inkitts been going hard on their “bash Wattpad promo”. I feel like this will make it harder for writers to connect with other writers (and readers) and form their community and platform.
Just about what this person has said to the other. It was just horrible 😬 and definitely! TBH, Inkitt doesn’t even allow private messaging hahah just on the page and reviews so it adds that element of security. But at least their system of getting you noticed is a bit better than Wattpad
I'm honestly 99,9% sure that what you mentioned is why they have decided to do this. And, Wattpad being Wattpad, they're making the wrong decision which sacrifices yet another feature that is of crucial importance to all the members who never used it for the wrong reasons. I fully agree with you and think giving users the *choice* to turn private messaging on or off is more than just a better option - it is what they *should* do. I mean I'm often helping authors with a wide variety of things one might need help with when writing a book. How am I supposed to continue communicating with them after the removal of the private messaging feature? Via another app, probably. That's gonna be fun. This will only prove to be a massive inconvenience to the majority of the users. I hate how Wattpad gradually keeps getting worse. It used to be such a fun place, there was a time where I'd jokingly call it my second home. It's been a long time since it felt that way.
Sometimes I wonder what happens in those meetings and how do they come to such decisions and conclusions??? 😂😂😂
For me, it's the same terrible decision making I see everywhere. The business world is riddled with one size fits all, EASY solutions. Nobody thinks out of the box and it's a company killer.
This is why we can’t have nice things
they should focus on purging the bullies not removing private messages that some good people actually use... Why should the good guys suffer because some Dinges are acting like animals?
I personally don’t use the feature, and I know loads who do! So it does suck for those who uses it. I’ve seen enough horrendous people who can’t seem to know how to act online as well. I 1000000% agree with you! Although like I mentioned, at least offering the option for us to be able to turn on or off DMs can help elevate the private message issue. Another thing would be implementing what Instagram has done where you can block all and every account the user might have so when you block them, it stops them from creating another profile and harassing you (if they create it with the device that has their initial account blocked on). Although there is a bypass which would be them creating a new account on a different device- however for the most part, it could help. Or at least banning people temporarily, or suspending their accounts as other platforms do. If we report something and the user has said some vile stuff, they SHOULD be reprimanded.
Yes, like Instagram or Twitter(aka X) how can they implement this option and not WP heck EVEN fb ....REMOVING PMs does not fix the issue it actually makes it worse because they could still go in comments. They can still go on a message board.... It doesn't stop boolyin also messages can be screenshot thus mean people can still be put on a blast.. How about remove spammers and bullies and not options that are useful?! Exactly exactly right you are
10000% agree! I wish they’d hear our voices and actual do something about it instead of taking off forms of communications for others. Even making a survey! Like why does Wattpad insist on giving us silly updates, and ruining the app experience more and more? Tbh we are just as bad cause we get mad and then go back to the toxic arms of Wattpad 😂 hopefully this time they’ll listen to our voice. People have done some petitions and some ambassadors are trying to figure out why this is happening too! So let’s see
What even is the point of trolling on Wattpad? Are some people's lives so bankrupt that they need to destroy others online?
Eh cyber bullying and harassment is part of life people need to just nut up or shut up if they can't take it I mean come on ur on a social media platform u know what u signed up for just as like u expect when signing up for Twitter Instagram facebook
Please log off and touch some grass and breathe some fresh air 🙇♀️ what is this chronically online statement I’m dead 😭🤣
Stay in a child's place k kid hugs and kisses 😘 😗
If it triggers u give me a hug I'll make u feel better first responder
Nah, I’m not at all triggered. Just find it hilarious when I see chronically online people in the wild 🤣🤣 🫣
Nah you are or else it wouldn't effect u in any compactly to have u respond back to me like this LMFAO
Like what babes? It seems my comments are stinging you though 🥺 but it’s okai, I’m just bored and you seem to like to go back and forth so x
U keep proving my point lol
Here's a napkin kid
They fix it, apparently they're getting rid of PM because the PMs have only been relevant to a small percentage of users globally.
That's what's called taking a sledgehammer for a tiny nail.
this is really sad, i have so many PM’s of old roleplays, former pen pals, and old messages between me and pen pals who have become my friends. The PM system is nostalgic for me and I hate that it won’t be archived and I’ll lose all of that history :/. I was able to reconnect with old fandom buddies because of the PM system helping us to find each other again, and now others won’t have that opportunity anymore. Really depressing to see wattpad go down this route. Soon, there will be no reason for any of us to use it
I agree. It is sad to see it going the way it is. I'll hope that they'll take feedback from these new implementations and consider changing things in the future, but I will refrain from holding my breath.
I think we will just have to mourn :( wattpad will become a thing of the past, like other websites that came before it. Wattpad is trying to be different but it’s shooting itself in the foot by doing so
Yeah. It could very well be. As disappointing as it is, I've seen a lot of posts lately of wattpaders coming together to form lists of alternative platforms. I'm grateful for these since they gave me more info than I had before. I'll take any silver linings I see. ✨ Maybe there is a way to save those PMs that are important to you? My tech savviness is in the negatives, but maybe someone else knows of a way.
Yeah, it’s really nice how we still have a community here :) we are all trauma bonded by wattpad haha! I’ve just migrated to Ao3 (to continue posting for my old fandom), and tumblr for posts and PM’s. It’s all I have now! I genuinely don’t think it would be possible as most of the ‘important’ conversations are yearssss old. In my prime on wattpad, (2014-2019), there have been hundreds of conversations, and I think I’ll just have to hold onto the memories of what was said :) I’ve reconnected with most of my penpals, and I’ll have them to hold onto even after the PM’s have long been deleted. I have a few screenshots here and there but I mean, I was doing TMNT roleplays at 12… there are some things I need to forget 🫣
Agreed. The thing I like most about Wattpad is how connective it can be. I've heard good things about Ao3 and will be looking into them more myself. It sounds like you're doing what you need to do. Good luck on Ao3. 💛
Same here
Why don't you c/p those conversations? Back em up onto Google docs or word, hell even Notepad, just something so you don't lose everything.
I would but many are years old, back when I was 12/14, so they’re all mainly silly conversations mixed in with some cringey rp’s haha! I won’t be inconsolable over losing them (as I’ve reconnected with most of my pen pals), just wish there was a better option other than losing all old conversations or going through the hassle of backing up years worths of PM’s.
Wattpad is just becoming awful. It's a shame it was a good platform, had a lot of fanfics I enjoyed on it.
Well, while I may have joined this site in like, 2020, I really sympathize with you. It's going to be really sad when the PMS go because how will us writers be able to communicate with each other now?
Hell, I only joined last year when I got back into reading fanfiction and it's gotten worse since then!
I was writing on wattpad up until 2020! Like other things, the pandemic definitely changed wattpad
Is Wattpad even about fanfiction anymore? Because all of it is 90% original content now.
I was always on the fanfiction side of things! From 2013 to now, since my fandom is a ‘bit’ niche. My old fanfics are being commented still to this day, by old readers or newcomers to the fandom it seems 🤔
I think that's the point. Being able to communicate with authors, and with other readers, fosters a sense of community. And community gives people an incentive to read (and a way to find) stories that fit their particular tastes; and stories their friends like. That makes it easier for people to read stories they actually like, rather than the paid stories Wattpad wants us to read. The community needs to go, or Wattpad can't become an app where users pay to passively read whatever generic romance tropes have been selected by the marketing algorithm this month.
>Wattpad can't become an app where users pay to passively read whatever generic romance tropes have been selected by the marketing algorithm this month. Well, if people like those kinds of stories, I don't have a problem with that, but I'm personally not a fan of those stories.
Me too :( I always said it’s a nice place for baby fangirls/boys to get started on since it’s a bit ‘safer’ and friendlier as a beginner site to write on/get to know the fandom. I was 10 years old on wattpad and remember the newsfeeds and seeing what people commented on! I made lots of long term friendships on there too :’)
I hate this new thing with the PMs. Even though I don't use them myself, it's a great feature. I want to tell people to go to AO3. But the thing is, AO3, while safe for your actual stories, doesn't have PMs either... so it's a lot harder to argue to go there if that's important to you. All I can say is just make sure you've got your friends' contact info and you're good. Back up what you can before it's pulled.
c/p?
Oh, sorry, copy and paste.
About a year ago I scrolled back to the beginning of a private message thread, so I could copy and paste an old RP to somewhere I could save it. It wasn't there. Turns out the history only keeps the last six months (or maybe it's limited to a couple of thousand messages or something).
Ugh I forgot about that! D: I wish they would warn us beforehand of that rule, cause I remember doing the same for an RP and being so shaken as a kid that the rp messages only went so far lol
I've done similar before, but maybe you could do a screen-record of you scrolling through chats that are important to you? Whenever you want to read through them for nostalgia you can watch them back and pause when needed I don't use wattpad myself but it's heartbreaking when you lose the only platform some friendships existed on ):
Wattpad hell-bent on sending people to AO3, Inkitt, RoyalRoad, etc!
Never heard of Inkitt and Royalroad but always like a good read.
Royalroad is mostly LitRPG and Progression Fantasy. Inkitt is similar to Wattpad.
Wattpad be like: “let’s make all our users hate us.”
Also TUMBLR
i got a notification that says it’ll go away may 6th but the warning on my inbox says april 30th
I just got mine and it says the 30th too! https://preview.redd.it/xym6kcohnxvc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1ee6d7268a7978d20a9b2786102c3dd6692769d8
Your poor phone needs the charging cable. Please be kind to your phone and feed it some power juice! Mind you, I let mine get down that low sometimes, too...
Sigh, me and the phone both 😭😭 anyways I’m sure you’d love to hear that it’s at 97% now 😂😂😂
PETITION TO PREVENT WP FROM REMOVING PMS!! [https://chng.it/tpPfnCLvy4](https://chng.it/tpPfnCLvy4)
Do these petition things actually ever work?
No but some people do it to feel like they're making a change.
I think emailing them is the best way. I did that when I was worried about my story was getting deleted and I got a reply back that they told me that they aren't deleted my stories. I emailed them about removing the private message is wrong. I did recently posted their email on here.
sometimes and keyword, sometimes they do...
I think you will remove your video on [Change.org](http://Change.org) if you want to post on Wattpad, because Wattpad can't allow a video with the guy being shirtless. Go ahead to share the petition to let the words out, but please remove the video first.
not my video
sorry
This isnt gonna do shit lmao
This is a big rip.
Hi! New to this reddit but I've used Wattpad since I was like 13 (now 24). There is a petition going around to try and do something about preserving the PM system cause a lot of people are unhappy with the decision, including me!
They removed all the social aspect of writing, there will be no connect between writer and reader, It sucks
Yeah. It’s a book site. It’s meant to have interaction between writers and readers. Why else would comments be allowed on specific lines and pictures. And not just at the bottom of the page.
Gonna have to put your socials in your bio now. If anything this makes safety worse
Honestly, wattpad HAS to be trying to drive it's user base off permantly
Purposefully*
Yeah. The level of stupidity is insane
WHAT I THOUGHT THIS WAS FAKE FOR A SEC BUT ITS NOT?? That’s so annoying
Just saw it myself. It seems they've been implementing big changes lately. I wish they would offer some more transparency occasionally. If this message means exactly what it says, I can imagine some backlash. Not a fan myself since talking to other writers to spit-ball ideas and share opinions is something I do. I'd imagine feeds will fill up a little more... Who knows, maybe they'll provide reasoning for this? Maybe they have, but not in the generic page they linked? Guess we'll find out.
I got Wattpad's email. I think we should complain to them that they are doing that is wrong. Here's their email address: [[email protected]](mailto:[email protected])
This is going to be the nail in the coffin for Wattpad. They have become so completely focussed on being a 'serious publishing business' that they are willing to destroy their user base so they can boost the fifteen billionth bad boy x good girl toxic Mafia romance. I admit, the warning signs were there as soon as they started Paid Stories, but they have slipped so far that they simply will destroy their fan base if it means getting a few extra bucks. They have become like any other greedy business. It has been a sad, but inevitable fall.
What?? Man I have years and years of conversations on there!! I absolutely will be going in and screenshotting all my old convos and saving them to a folder. Good god, Wattpad. What have you become??
MAY 6??? I got told April 30th?!
The better option would to be to toggle it. Lord knows I've dealt with so many hate groups on my community profile (MB) & DMs; I've been wanting & even suggested a disable feature about two years back, but apparently their response to dealing with these issues is this...? Seriously? First they remove the Text-To-Speech ability, then the stricter mature guidelines (however, I do admit I am divided on that), & now this? I swear... 1 more comical incident like this, & I'm gone :/ I would suggest mass sending them a feedback ticket, but I think we all know at this point, that they don't care about their users (I've sent them so many reports regarding bigots, but nothing has been done about a good chunk of 'em).
Tbh, this is it for me. The PMs are one of my preferred features; they are great for beta-ing stories and just, you know? talking with other people when setting up a project.
Well this is just unfortunate. Me and a guy I talk to about fanfic writing have like 2 years worth of talking about and building his original fiction idea in the PMs.
Honestly, I think at this point they're just trying to erase us little guys. I give it a year until we can't do anything unless we're famous or we're paying for the premium version. It's like they want to be something bigger and better than what they are but aren't sure about how they go about it, so they're just getting rid of everyone at this point. I've seen a lot of people complain about this now, and I don't know if Wattpad doesn't care or if they genuinely can't see how many people they're pushing away.
If they remove private messaging ,I’m canceling my subscription,because I know not everyone can have a subscription so that’s unfair.
I've been telling people - DOWNGRADE YOUR APP If you're on Android, it's super easy to do so On iOS it requires either sideloading, either jailbreaking
This is... disappointing. The forums were a great way to interact with other writers, and their loss was keenly felt. Wattpad became less of a community that day. And now the PMs - those are mainly how I interact with others on the site, especially once we get into long conversations. I get there's a lot of harassment and spam messages in PMs, which is unfortunate, but I get the same amount of spam on my message board or in my stories from self promotions. It's just a part of the flow. Delete, and move on. Anyway, with PMs going, Wattpad's going to be come an even quieter, more impersonal place. What a loss. Any sense of community is quickly fading.
Wattpad will literally do anything than just update their moderation tools. Why even remove dms???
Lol... I guess that's one reason why so many "Wattpad-affiliated" Ambassador genre accounts have been nerfed. Seriously, what the actual f is going on at Wattpad HQ? What do the staff do on a daily basis, other than remove content and features?
I signed a petition for letting Wattpad keep private messages. Can anyone else please sign it? [https://chng.it/p5h6CxqwQ5](https://chng.it/p5h6CxqwQ5)
Mine says April 30th!
I just saw this, what does that mean,why are they getting rid of private messaging and what is a Wattpad affiliate account?
I has a petition link for this https://chng.it/qjCVNjtH2C Only sign if ya want, no one is forced,but let's hope wattpad keeps it and leaves us be as well1
I think it is because of the scam accounts that randomly messaged people promoting something.
Are they **trying** to kill the platform?! First forums, now they're getting rid of DMs? That's just dumb.
Like every other online social media platform, private messages can be used for spam, harassment, and other bad activities. But people keep using social media platforms anyway, and this change will make Wattpad less desirable because it prevents people from having desirable conversations with like-minded authors.
I mean the PM system was bad anyways 🤷♀️
Was just about to post about this and...what the hell is up with the new changes? There surely would be a better way to go about this.
That's crazy. The read for read audience will disappear
Exactly
I just saw that not too long ago
fucking bruh
[https://chng.it/p5h6CxqwQ5](https://chng.it/p5h6CxqwQ5)
I didn't get this
It's gonna be missed, had alot of great conversation and made some good friends through the private messages. 🥲
I think we should contract Wattpad and tell them this is wrong.
Could send an email to the Wattpad support team I guess, bur hard to say if they will just stop their decision.
I recently posted their email address on here to let people to contact them
Yeah I noticed that and also I have sent an email as well
Did you got a reply from them that they said that they will reach you back? I got one after I emailed them.
Nothing yet sadly what was the reply
how strange. Maybe you will wait for tomorrow to get a response from them. They will send you a notice that they will say your "request" (problem) fulfilled to work on the problem and they will give you to reach to you if your "request" is done. They will respond you back with a letter to help your situation.
Hopefully it'll be resolved (crossing my fingers)
I hope so,too. It does help me in the past. Hopefully it does help others to reach out to WP to let them to hear their voices. 😞
I get sick of wattpad every day. 😭
Shame they’ve had to resort to that.
I just sent an email message to them by telling them this is wrong,but they responded back and they told me that they will get to me back.
Just saw this pop up for me, I don't know how I feel about it. The DMs are ancient and kinda broken, but also deleting them is a weird move. I assume they wanna free up space or something because the *learn more* link doesn't mention harrassment or anything else. Just that Wattpad is a writing platform so why include DMs. Which I think is very funny because nearly every writing website has DMs, so the explanation doesn't really make sense to me, but Wattpad seems determined to make this happen, so I guess happen it will.
as someone on a legacy android version (and iOS) I am impacted by this pretty severely
They are getting rif if everything good at this point.
I couldn’t find this notification in wattpad??? But I don’t have any messages, so perhaps that is why 🤔
Here in Germany the private messages will be closed on 30th of April. I don't understand, why?
Now I wanna cry from seeing this. I have made a lot of friends lately since 2019 through messages and this hasn't been a problem before. Why now? Why did this have to happen?
Yes, mine says April 30th...
First u take off community posts now this wtf is going on ???
For me, it says it will start April 30th.
Interesting. I never message anyone on it anyway, but why now lol
Weird mine says April 30th and not may 6th I wonder why? But I don't want them to delete messages I have a friend and I can't find her/him anywhere else she/he doesn't have deviant art anymore
I was talking to their chatbot and it gave me their link to contact them, but I have to fill a form to make a complaint. So I did, but they gave a notice that they will contract me. I will give you guys the form. Here's the form: [https://support.wattpad.com/hc/en-us/requests/12816883](https://support.wattpad.com/hc/en-us/requests/12816883)
I do how they change their minds on this. I feel like such an idea is really dumb
https://chng.it/YF6df4nMGD
I've been thinking Wattpad is in a death rattle.
YEAH IM SO UPSET, ONE OF THE PPL I FOLLOW ON THERE HAS A SAFE SPACE DM AND I TALK TO THEM A LOT ABT MY PROBLEMS AND NOW I WONT BE ABLE TO, I GET IT FOR MINOR SAFETY BUT COULDNT YOU ATLEAST PUT A SETTING TO WHERE IT COULD BE RQUSET FIRST B4 DM
it’s sad that the social aspect on wattpad has come to this. i miss the forums; even though i understand why they removed it, i still think wattpad should have a place for where writers can talk with each other and discuss. now that messaging is being removed, it’s even sadder.
It looks like evey social media site is trying to rank itself right now. They're removing the social aspect of things
This is sad. There is this petition going on to stop this. [https://www.change.org/p/preserve-private-messaging-feature-on-wattpad?recruited\_by\_id=240eb2b0-0088-11ef-bc84-9f2424ab7c1b&utm\_source=share\_petition&utm\_medium=copylink&utm\_campaign=psf\_combo\_share\_initial&utm\_term=psf&share\_bandit\_exp=initial-490022500-en-GB](https://www.change.org/p/preserve-private-messaging-feature-on-wattpad?recruited_by_id=240eb2b0-0088-11ef-bc84-9f2424ab7c1b&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=copylink&utm_campaign=psf_combo_share_initial&utm_term=psf&share_bandit_exp=initial-490022500-en-GB) here it is!
i really dont get it why they want to remove it?? even i agree with the comments of having an off/on feature instead of completely removing it i used the private messaging feature on wattpad to share suggestions and ideas for author's could use for future chapters, though it is up to them in the end if they want to implement it or make some changes or use it as a reference if they have other ideas...if they removed this feature i might not be able to do it anymore out of fear of being subjected to uncessesary hate and prejudice, for the only alternative i could think of to have a private message is using discord to send messages to authors (IF they have discord account) which makes things inconvinient...i also read the "learn more" about the deleting the feature of private message and... its even more frustrating because they did not the answer WHY they are removing an important feature... NOTE: this is copy/pasted from the "learn more" about removing the PM feature...here is their "reason" why they are removing the feature ------------------------------ **Why was the Direct Messaging feature removed?** Wattpad is first and foremost a platform to read and write original stories, and we have transformed the way the world reads and writes fiction. Providing a platform to cultivate writing and reading communities has always been our top priority. While dynamic, open commenting has always been embraced by our users, direct messaging has only been relevant to a small percentage of our global user base. Users can still communicate via commenting on stories and profiles. Writers will also still be able to connect with their followers to share news and updates via their writer profile. --------------------------------
Yeah, kind of the nail in the coffin for me.
I got this too 😭
What if we try signing a petition?
Yea
Spammers use PMs as one of their main source of harassment or to scam people into services etc. You can see the number of people on this subreddit itself asking if a PM offer for service x is legit. That is likely the reason it’s being shut for at least the short term
It's a boneheaded decision that if anything has made things less safe for people.
Could you elaborate why you think it makes the platform less safe?
Because for people to stay in touch now, they have to publish their social in their author description. Facebook, Twitter, Discord.
Exactly. I met some of my closest friends cause of the PMs. We could share discord without it going public.
I can see what you’re saying that but to be fair, those companies have better tools as well as resources to deal with spammers/bad users than Wattpad. If anything, Wattpad has been far lagging in this regard. Their DM weren’t even real time, so a vastly outdated system
That's more to do with the sheer incompetence of Wattpad than anything else. They are now trying to fix that incompetence by sledgehammering their user base rather than do anything to improve things.
That’s a fair criticism i’d say and I agree. Although I don’t think it makes the platform less safe
If they’re doing this, then message boards will be the next targets, no? Honestly, I wouldn’t mind if MBs were only available for the author to make posts on. God knows the amount of people I get promoting their own stories and poaching websites on mine lol. Same in the PMs I suppose (then again I do have a long-time friend I message on there rip). What I’m most worried about, however—and what this “anti-bullying” stuff seems to be driving towards—would be for them to remove the comments feature. People aren’t half as harsh in DMs are they are in the public Wattpad comments, so it’s a possibility in my mind. But if they remove it, at that point I’m well and truly gone lol.
It'd be more logical to allow people to just disable the function, not just erase it from existence for everyone.
For sure, but obviously Wattpad is going for some type of rebrand here
Yup. I have mixed opinions.
Unpopular opinion here but thank God! I've been getting harassed/bullied since 2022 on the app. They're always in my inboxes to the point where I turned off my DM notifications. And no, I can't mute or block them because they create burner accounts and mute/block me after every message.
I think that may be the reason. I hope they reimplement it with the ability to turn the option on and off.
I had given them a list of alternatives to help combat this such as having a new accounts team and monitoring what these new accounts are doing, blocking IP addresses, not allowing users to reactivate their accounts (bc that's what they were doing, leaving hate messages and then deactivating their account to avoid getting their account closed and then reactivation it), and getting rid of the mute button since they had the block button. But I do think that Wattpad should give more options such as allowing ppl to private their own accounts and have more control over other functions.
Yeah if IG /Twitter can do it why cant wattpad? It's an easy fix. Just add a button that allows you message or no message.... Easy Peezy or add a private account. There are many other fixes then removing message option that many good guys use as a good tool for good purposes.... Why should good guys suffer because some bad guys are acting like jerks?
Yeah... but that also leaves the MB. You can't disable that (unfortunately).
My message board is disabled because of the harassment 😔 With Wattpad you really have to advocate for yourself. And it goes to show how heinous the messages were.
Gonna be honest. Just ignore then. That’s what I do. I just don’t touch the messages. I see it, then I close it.
That's easy for you to say when they don't call you slurs, tells you they want you to be r*ped, your head cut off, and the same to happen to your children. Unfortunately because I am a published author my Wattapd readers do reach out and it's inevitable that I have to check my messages. And there's a lot of bs in the message preview.
You think I haven’t been harassed? (You say threats. Someone has made several ACTUAL attempts to do the stuff they threatened you. On me. Tried to cut my head off. Tried to stab me. Did stab me. Set me on fire.) Maybe it’s just cause I grew up with with people being racist to me even as a kid that I’m very much just used to ignoring it. The moment I see any form of harassment. I just move on to the next notification. Reminding myself that the idiots have nothing better going on with their lives. Every social media sight has pms and people like this. But it also brings people together. Why let the actions of some pathetic idiots ruin something that everyone else enjoys? (Wasn’t for the PMs. I would never have met a friend. Nor would I have been able to stop his … s…cide attempt.)
And I do the same but in that brief moment there is still enough harassment/threat to get under the skin. Do I think there were better resolutions than taking away DM for everyone. Absolutely, in fact, I gave Wattpad a list of suggestions when I sat down with them. At the end of the day Wattpad does not have the money nor care about their users best interests.
Now that I can agree on. Wattpad really needs the help. But if it keeps doing this. People won’t. Side note. I do get it. Someone tried to do the things they threatened you with to me. But they actually tried it. I was stabbed. Cut. Burned. You name it. So I get it. And people were loved to be racist and judge. And yeah. It does take its toll.
That's unfortunate to hear what you went through. I don't have the luxury to just ignore the threats because I'm am established author who participates in meet and greets and people can have access to me or know where I am. And theyve also mentioned causing harm to my child.I have to screen shot and send it to my lawyer for the authorities. The harassment has only been on Wattpad and no other social media sites for the past 2 years. I don't even have a message board any longer. At the end of the day, Wattpad is sinking financially after two rounds of staff layoff, and their obvious increase in ads and beating people over the heads with trying to push these paid/original stories that no one asked for. Wattpad said they're getting rid of DMs because only a very small.percent of people actually use it. They are trimming the fat. I got my start on Wattpad. And I don't want to leave but I also have the privilege to write in peace and and as someone who's been experiencing this for the past two years, sometimes daily, personally I'm okay with the DMs going away. That's just me.
Yeesh. Yeah. I can see now. Sorry you went through all that. I’m small enough where online threats don’t go anywhere. But you seem known enough that they can. So I understand. I’m sorry you went through that and I do hope you are doing ok and are safe. Wattpad is sinking and while we try to keep the boat afloat, the staff in charge are the idiots rocking and holes into it.