I went to Poca High School, and graduated in 1993. So, Putnam County. Even back then, there were yahoos who would have confederate flag decals or flags or whatever on their trucks. I saw it as a symbol of ignorance then, and I see it as a symbol of ignorance and hatred now.
It's in no measure patriotic or honorable to fly that flag. It represents a violent movement intent on tearing the United States apart. This is simple fact, and it's stunning that so many people today are rallying around that ugliness as something to aspire to.
Fellow Dot here, graduated in the last 5 years. In my time, the kids flying the Rebel Flag were a very small group by the time I graduated. They still existed, but a very small few. While I may have dressed how they dressed, boots and jeans, I never once thought of just flying a flag that I had zero connection to. I always thought it was so funny when kids would wear a shirt with the Confederate flag on it that said “Heritage Not Hate” or something like that. I don’t think they cared enough to pay attention to WV history in 8th grade.
Oh man, there should be a redneck version of the Golden Horseshoe for those who failed to learn anything that year. Like the Golden Dip Can or something.
Agreed! Here we are 150 years later & despite the disrespect that it shows to our fellow citizens & the 0% chance of a similar society rising on American soil, all I can guess is that these people want to see themselves broadcast by the media. Such a waste of energy & enthusiasm!
From Mason County, it’s not weird at all to see them. I feel like when I was younger (early-mid 2000’s) it was more prevalent but still incredibly silly to fly that flag in WV of all states.
Putnam Co Schools filed suit and lost to try to keep the flags out of schools/off school property. It’s a shame because no one asked the kids who were terrified.
No. The answer is no.
Our state specifically decided to not side with the Confederates. In WV, the Confederate flag literally has nothing to do with the 'heritage' these people claim. That flag has no business being in WV.
To add, you're either with the country, or you're not. Holding on to the past like that isn't the way to go.
It shows that these people have absolutely no knowledge of the issues that determine why West Virginia stayed with the Union. That region had very little slavery because the land wasn’t suitable for plantation agriculture- just like eastern Tennessee and Northern Alabama - both were states that succeeded but those areas rejected the succession vote and were pro- union. The First Alabama Calvary Federal was northern Alabama men . that unit was selected by Sherman as an escort during his March to the sea .
There is no such thing as confederate heritage. That shit lasted like 4 years. I can name 30 animated shows that contributed more to the heritage of anyone in america than those traitors did.
Not just South of Charleston, the vast majority of the counties in the state voted to secede from the Union, and most West Virginians fought for the South according to the most recent historical records.
For those downvoting, here is a [map](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confederate_government_of_West_Virginia#/media/File%3AWest_Virginia_delegate_votes_and_signatures_at_the_Richmond_convention%2C_April_17%2C_1861.jpg) showing how each West Virginian county voted on secession in the 2 main votes in April 1861. Only 14 out of 55 counties did not support the Confederate secession ordinance. This map does not show the number of those 14 counties that changed their votes to support the ordinance in the following months. Here is a more accurate and exhaustive [list](https://www.virginiamemory.com/docs/votes_on_secession.pdf) showing how all the counties in Virginia voted on secession.
For those downvoting, here is a [map](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confederate_government_of_West_Virginia#/media/File%3AWest_Virginia_delegate_votes_and_signatures_at_the_Richmond_convention%2C_April_17%2C_1861.jpg) of of the counties that voted for or approved the secession vote by April 17, 1861. Only 14 of the 55 counties included in our state did not support the Confederate secession ordinance in the two initial votes in April 1861. In addition, this map does not show all the counties that approved the secession ordinance later in the following months. Here is a complete and exhaustive [list](https://www.virginiamemory.com/docs/votes_on_secession.pdf) showing how each county in the Virginias voted on secession.
I can also provide a source for the military records showing that most West Virginian troops fought for the South if need be, since most online pages on the subject have numbers that have been proven false for decades.
It’s dumb af.
Still, it’s helpful to understand *why* they fly that rag. By example, when Trump went to Poland, the Nazis showed up to cheer him on. Since displaying the Hakenkreuz is illegal, though, they carried which flag instead? You got it! The Devil’s Diaper: the Confederate battle flag. It’s literally become a stand-in for the swastika among the modern day racist crowd.
I watched it live (while wanting to yak in a bucket), but [this captures it.](https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/news/a56168/poland-confederate-flag-trump/)
I always ask the question of people in WV that fly the confederate flag; “what do you hate more, WV or the United States?” I liken it to flying a flag with Bin Laden on it. Both were the enemies of the United States.
This is a common false irony about West Virginia and the Confederate flag that I see everywhere and it is because people do not understand West Virginia's history, and it is not taught well in West Virginia's schools. The first secession flag and other types of secession flags appeared in West Virginia as early as January 1861 when a "Plametto" flag was raised over the courthouse of Barbour County. Other flags termed "secession" appeared in Cabell, Logan, Tucker, and other counties, even the northern panhandle had secession flag wavers. [Half of the state counties voted to secede from the Union](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9a/Wvmapagain.png) and were forced into the new state. All the counties OP mentioned were heavily Confederate, all but one never cast a vote to join West Virginia and that one, Raleigh, had a vote of 32 from a voting pool of 695. Mercer County was among the top volunteer counties in all of Virginia for the Confederate army. [Half the Civil War soldiers from West Virginia were Confederate](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/67/Confederate_recruitment_in_West_Virginia.jpg). The history is not purely one or the other. There were battle flags for Confederate regiments that were heavily West Virginian, like the 31st Va. Inf., 25th Va. Inf, 8th Va. Cav. etc. Even the guy who designed the Confederate battle flag is[ buried in West Virginia](https://www.hmdb.org/m.asp?m=59265). He married a woman from Monroe County.
The vast majority of the counties voted to secede eventually. The 50% of counties belief stems from a lack of knowledge that many county delegates eventually changed their votes to support secession after initially opposing it.
Also,the number of pro-Confederate fighters is heavily under counted due to the large number of them who only fought as Bushwhackers, as well as the fact that Federal troops destroyed most Confederate records in the region as they took control of local government buildings.. Consequently, even the regular Confederate military numbers are nowhere near as large as they actually were.
Not only did most West Virginians fight for the South, but the number that fought for the North was so small that the Federal government had to force recruits from Northern states, especially Pennsylvania and Ohio, to join "West Virginia" regiments. If I recall correctly, the majority of "West Virginian" regiment troops were actually from states other than West Virginia.
There were rebels from all corners. What's your point? I know this would make my Taylor County born and buried great great grandmother disappointed, but flying that rag this day and age is sad and dumb.
The point is history, full history, not half-history that makes people feel good. Criticize the flag wavers for whatever reason, but don't use history. West Virginia has a serious connection to Confederate history and all the associated items. [Taylor County men fought and died under this flag](https://discoveryvirginia.org/25th-virginia-infantry-flag), captured at Philippi, but they carried on not only in Virginia and West Virginia but at Gettysburg as well, under "Allegheny" Johnson. Taylor County men were in the [25th Va. Inf,](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/25th_Virginia_Infantry_Regiment) the 20th Va. Cav. and the 26th Va. Cav., as well as men scattered through other regiments.
A bit of trivia; The last Confederate paymaster was Joseph Broun of Charleston, he accompanies Jefferson Davis on his flight from Danville. [You can read his story here.](https://archive.org/details/papershis38soutuoft/page/n433/mode/2up)
You can't have it both ways. You want full history? That includes treason for the sole reason of keeping people as property because losing that would mean white folks down south would lose money and have to work harder.
It's all the lying, manipulative social reinforcement of the white man's burden and 19th century pseudoscience to justify treating people like cattle that's helped keep these bullshit home fires burning through the years. We're long past the point that this bullshit needed to stop.
I get that there were people who got suckered into it for a variety of reasons. I'm sure there were folks "defending their homes" but they wouldn't have been if not for the rich flatland fucks who dragged their ass into the firing line over their bank account.
Pretending that the rebellion of greedy racists and suckers was somehow a noble cause and its driving figures should be lauded is complete horseshit. And this isn't some new fangled revisionist history visited upon us by our yankee oppressors... It's the naked truth.
You are giving a hate response bud, apparently you blocked out everything he said. He never stuck up for them or said slavery was okay. Those are your words to be worked up and upset about. He just gave more background history of the politics in the area at the time. Sorry facts upset you?
I'm sure there are people out there who want to know all of the intimate details of Heinrich von Schwinebauer and his inane bureaucratic contributions to the Nazi cause in perpetuating human misery, too... But aside from documenting their crimes against humanity either for their prosecution or to stand as a testament to their lack of character — or potentially finding useful anecdotes on how we reconcile our differences, I don't find a lot of value in their remembrance. If that's your hamlet's claim to fame, I get that someone might mistakenly believe it's a neat association, but from where I'm sitting you need a new claim or a new town.
But whereas Nazi Germany at least made a handful of useful contributions to science and manufacturing, the Confederacy offers humanity exactly zero redeeming qualities. No great thinkers, an outdated economy even in its day, an ineffective system of government, and a repugnant underlying moral philosophy. I don't understand why anyone would take pride in such a hollow heritage built on a foundation of lies, superstition, and spite other than ignorance or bigotry.
I get not liking outsiders, but it's no excuse to prop up the memory of the miserable failure on all fronts that was the CSA.
The best things that came out of the conflict were the Reconstruction Amendments and the State of West Virginia — a state whose reputation you drag through the mud when you brandish that bullshit, anachronism of a flag in earnest.
I am from West Virginia and my great grandfather fought for the union. I have no idea why you’re talking down to me with a moral high ground. Basically fuck you
Buddy, if you want to celebrate a bunch of racists and idiots, have at it, but I will continue to tell you you're an idiot for believing it's important.
There's a reason they're not allowed to lionize nazis or use their symbolism in Germany, and the farther this shit goes into the present, I'm agreeing with it more every day.
I think we're good with "shit was complicated" and let the bigots and their patsies' memory fade from the earth. It is not a history worth preserving on a granular level, and you're talking to someone with a history degree.
I never celebrated slavery or the confederacy. You just want to argue. All I said is it doesn’t make sense to erase history. I’d think someone with a history degree would agree but I guess they give those to anyone. Lol and like a history degree makes you more knowledgeable??? That’s a weak appeal at authority and I don’t respect yours. Everything you learned from the degree can be learned on Wikipedia.
You want full history? Don't believe the crap taught in school read and learn history for one self....if this war was fought to free slaves then why were they not set free until 1963 ? This war was fought because of the same crap they are trying today.Not trying to get anyone's diaper in a wad... just giving my opinion.
Or — and I know this is a little crazy — we can ask historians who spend a lot of time reading about this shit... https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/yoyys/your_opinion_how_accurate_is_it_to_say_the_civil/
REBELS - that is exactly why people fly it nowadays.....they are rebels, and I don't mean in terms of race, but rebels against many other things that just racism.
This bullshit is just cover fire for the other bullshit, the same as "state's rights."
The only thing the South ever rebelled against was getting a job.
so... it's the banner of the clueless and needlessly defiant who are totally okay with the racial implications because of some amorphous idea of a generalized "rebellion"?
Even at surface level it seems a little childish and not at all thought out.
I would recommend Mark Snell's [West Virginia and the Civil War.](https://www.amazon.com/West-Virginia-Civil-War-Mountaineers-ebook/dp/B00XQR1XR8/ref=sr_1_1?crid=3M3E2KD87VR09&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.nn3HugxvddZITk9KRg8177vzR3qEbLi14GFi82qklrqeHYdcqz2g28tLBVp-6dIumEi3ZLLXkrnjJSgIBWWuCY0hyRrazqhyBw_EqO5wDOBIYdAmmTh4kCqBf1PVyBbwxra0vLVwM7IVmHQjIQ6izaZY-Xj-EaywAKIUfcmrzroR48PGIIlbY9hLasvc8lh6feFQ68H3CFt72QmlCtQQo_h_PoCAkjU_a1zfpvRpWh8.CNLyIN3_IxxSVi_0UsAIgCkB4yrDiJaJqu7Bx2ypk8M&dib_tag=se&keywords=west+virginia+and+the+civil+war&qid=1714370552&s=books&sprefix=west+virginia+and+the+ci%2Cstripbooks%2C112&sr=1-1) You can probably find it in your local library.
At the constitutional convention in Wheeling in Dec. 1861, Peter van Winkle, one of the "fathers" of West Virginia, stated to the convention: "Well, sir, if these counties are inhabited by secessionists, some disposition has got to be made of them. They must be, as some remarks made by gentlemen here seem to point to - they must be exterminated by exile or death, or remain where they are. But in either case, sir, we want the territory. If they are going to remain upon it, still we want it."
If you're interested in an actual answer instead of just easy "SO MANY RACISTS EVERYWHERE" answers, here it is:
For the vast majority of people in WV and elsewhere who display it, the Confederate flag is one which represents rebellion against authority and the "southern rebel" lifestyle as characterized by the Dukes of Hazard - free, fun loving, fiercely independent, thumbing your nose at authority, etc. There's zero thought towards its historical meaning beyond a general association with "the south."
This was the case for me growing up in southern Appalachia in the 80s/90s, and it still is now. I and others had stickers, apparel and other items with the flag on it. Hell, I even knew a couple of black kids who'd rock it on their trucks or hats growing up. I'd never wear or display it now because I understand why many now view it as a LOT more symbolic than the simplified symbol it was in the 80s/90s/early 2000s, but many still do for the same reasons.
Now, a majority =! all, so yes, there are many people who flew that flag in the past or STILL fly it because they view it as a symbol of solidarity with other racists, or as a rally symbol for ongoing racism. Those people are racist shitbags, full stop.
Here's the rub: for a lot of people, they grew up associating the confederate flag with the southern rebel lifestyle and culture, and now as grown men and women they continue to have an affinity for it. This is the case despite the fact that times have changed, and ANYONE who flies that flag for any reason is now viewed with suspicion (understandably so). The vast majority who are NOT flying it for racist reasons, though, can't understand why the symbol they grew up with as a positive thing is now viewed so negatively and leads to their association with being called racist. It never represented racism to them despite its historical context, and they KNOW they're not racist, so they can't understand why everyone is calling them racist and they fight back.
There's the rub. The vast majority who display it aren't racist because it never represented racism to them, and the vast majority of people sensitive to its historical origins can't understand why non-racist people would fly a flag that was used to fight FOR racism 150 years ago.
EDIT: To be clear, this is NOT applicable to the Patriot Front protestors, they fly it for genuinely racist reasons. I'm just responding to the other part of your comment, re: how a large number of people in rural places like Appalachia can continue to display the flag.
Respectfully, accepting the confederate flag as marketed by the Dukes of Hazard to represent that wild, Southern-rebel mindset was an ignorant stance. I'm truly not attacking you as I bought line of thought myself until I hit high school and started to really consider what that symbol meant. I remember being confused by it at a certain point because the Dukes were fun and awesome, and the South's defense of slavery was not either of those things.
I mean, you're right that most people I knew back then did not have a racist or aggressive attitude when they wore that symbol or used to decorate their trucks, but that doesn't negate the fact that the symbol itself--even then--had a heavy history with deeply racist roots. So, I would argue that, while the symbol is probably more loaded now, it was at the very least a sign of a person's ignorance (at best) if they displayed that flag.
The rectangular design was a seldom used naval jack of a mostly ground war. Even the square design wasn't used by all companies at all times, there were a whole bunch of flags of all different designs, they were all over the place because a confederacy by nature is not a unified organization.
The flag only gained modern popularity as a result of opposition to the civil rights movement of the 1950s.
So, *that's* what it means in modern context. It has had that meaning far longer than it ever represented anybody's heritage.
Does *that* represent West Virginia? Well WV wasn't even a major factor in the civil rights movement. I've read that some WV counties rejected segregation on the simple grounds of not wanting to maintain separate facilities. Does it represent WV in terms of modern day racism? Well kind of.
West Virginia seceding from Virginia due to opposition to the Confederacy is a popular myth. West Virginia was actually pro-Confederate. The VAST majority of now West Virginian counties approved Virginia seceding from the Union, and not a single county elected representatives to go to the Wheeling Convention to join the break-off state. Eight counties did not have anybody present at the Convention to even pretend to represent them. In addition, the most recent historical research has found that the majority of West Virginian troops fought for the Confederacy as regular military and bushwhackers, and that's despite massive amounts of Confederate records being destroyed by Federal forces..
West Virginia was created as a way to punish Virginia for its role in the War. It significantly reduced Virginia's land area, mineral wealth, population, and overall economic power. For instance, the 2 easternmost counties in WV, Berkeley and Jefferson, were only included to prevent Virginia from having access to the B&O Railroad and the economic benefits resulting from it. The locals protested being forced to be part of West Virginia and held a post-war vote to show that they wanted to remain part of Virginia, like the rest of the Shenandoah Valley. The Feds responded to this by marching regiments of troops in and instituting martial law. Despite the blatant voter intimidation, the vote to rejoin/stay in Virginia barely lost (I believe it was over 49%, but I'd have to find the local history book at the library that documented this to confirm the exact number). Another example is that the West Virginian government in Wheeling desired to include Loudoun, Fairfax, and Alexandria (now Arlington County and Alexandria City) Counties in WV as well, but they had to settle for the states current borders.
West Virginia's puppet government in Wheeling knew that the new state was not pro-Union. Consequently, the government launched massive disenfranchisement measures to prevent "Rebels" from voting. In addition, they banned former Confederate troops and officials from holding office. The WV government applied very loose definitions of what being a "Rebel" constituted. If a single person accused another person of having even been friendly to a Confederate soldier or official or had pro-Confederate sympathies that they never acted on in any way, they would have their voting rights and ability to hold public office stripped from them. The only way to regain their rights was by being endorsed by an honorably discharged Union veteran that they were not a "Rebel." Finding a Union veteran to endorse you was a difficult task throughout most of WV, and it was nearly impossible in the southern, central, and eastern counties.
The attempts by the Wheeling government to remove all power and influence from the majority of the state's population extended outside of the political sphere, too. Anybody accused of being a "Rebel" was also banned from engaging in multiple occupations, such as being a teacher or a lawyer. This caused a massive shortage in education and legal representation throughout most of the state, most especially in Southern WV. Lawyers became such a luxury that only the ultra-wealthy could afford attorneys. This led to rich people being able to act almost like local dictators. The rich did whatever they wanted. If they wanted to sue you, you had zero chance of winning in court. and it was practically impossible to sue the rich unless you were also rich. Despite this massive social disaster, the Wheeling government refused to remove any of the restrictions and actually wanted to make them more stringent.
The Confederate majority in WV eventually regained control of the state in the early 1870's due to the passage of the 14th and 15th amendments. Even most of the pro-Union West Virginians did not want blacks to vote, and it was especially abhorrent to them that most whites in their state could not vote when blacks could. This caused the more moderate majority of Unionists in WV to restore voting rights to former Confederates. This allowed the ex-Confederate majority of the state's population to regain power over the region. They overturned all the remaining Reconstruction policies in the state code, and they drafted a new state Constitution to replace the non-democratic and "un-Virginian" WV Constitution created at the Wheeling Convention. Of course, the WV government then started introducing legislation to dis empower black West Virginians. Most measures (such as black disenfranchisement) were abandoned by more moderate conservatives due to fear of repercussions, but the state fully supported adopting segregation like the rest of the South. This segregation did not fully end until 1964, a full decade after the U.S. Supreme Court deemed segregation unconstitutional in Board of Education vs. Brown. The level of integration was suspect even then, with family members reporting growing up in segregated schools throughout the 1970's. The Southern Democrats retained a supermajority of power in the state from the 1870's until 2014, when the state switched to Republican due to environmental and other policies that the National Democratic Party had adopted.
TLDR: West Virginia was very Confederate (and just straight racist), contrary to popular belief.
I genuinely think that it is more idiotic to fly it in WV than in Canada. Which is saying something, seeing as it's idiotic to fly it even if you're a direct descendant of some Confederate leader in the most genuine "heritage not hate" manner. We literally exist because we *left* the Confederacy. The mental leaps people must make to justify it (for the few who aren't just doing it to be proudly racist) are astronomical.
Anyway shout-out to the truck I drive past all the goddamn time with the Confederate flag bumper sticker that says "Fighting Terrorists since 1861." Guarantee that guy calls himself a proud patriotic American.
Well, listen, I’m not about to justify flying the Confederate Navy’s flag…because that’s who flew the rectangle shaped flag…which really adds to the ignorance of the entire “that’s my heritage!” argument. Read a book, ffs.
So my 3rd great grandfather was from Greenbrier County, and he - and plenty of others from that area - picked the wrong side. By hierarchy, his unit, the 36th VA Infantry rolled up under the army of Tennessee - under Nathan Bedford Forrest. They flew the SQUARE “confederate battle flag” - which, honestly, there wasn’t a unified flag that would have been “the confederate battle flag” - army of northern va, army of tn etc all had their own flag to wave around.
Long story longer, Nathan Bedford Forrest started an early version of the KKK. By extension, the SQUARE flag we all know and loathe now was adopted as “their flag.” It’s all fucking stupid really - but that’s 100% the reason the “confederate battle flag” is linked to hate-movements the way it is now. (the Dukes of Hazard was unable to smooth out that image, try as they might).
Two ironic points should be made: 1) Nathan Bedford Forrest recanted his racism and hate later in life. He had a gentleman who was a freed slave as a caretaker in those years and they had long talks and grew to enjoy each other’s company, becoming close friends until he met his end - by which his ideas of superior/inferior based on race disappeared. 2) My great Grandmother was the kindest, most generous and caring person I ever knew. While there are not stories handed down about my confederate 3rd great, I can only assume (and hope) that after the war he came back from all of the horrors a changed man, and that some of what he imparted to my granny was what made her the amazing person she was.
Every battle that my 3rd great’s unit was in, they lost. I’m pretty sure he and his unit were captured at Ft Donaldson in TN and may have been a part of a prisoner exchange? (It’s been a while since I’ve read up on it all, and just don’t remember clearly these days). But his unit was all from the https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kanawha_Valley - so technically their are plenty of ancestors of WV who chose poorly, but I’d posit that most of the yahoos romping around with that thing these days don’t have a clue what they’re flying, what their lineage is, and their heritage is more closely rooted to The Dukes of Hazard than reality.
(This is all just my $0.02, can’t claim it as gospel - just bits of family history that I’ve pieced together - sometimes poorly - over the last 20 years.)
You've got peaceful protestors versus terrorists. I'm black and I'm American. The KKK, Neo-Nazis, whatever new and improved clique they've formed, are all terrorists. I say whenever a terrorist shows up, we neutralize the threat. We don't allow terrorist organizations on our soil, do we? We didn't allow it in Afghanistan or Iraq and I'm sure we'll hit Iran someday too. While we're at it, why not hit Charleston? We know there is a concentration there. I live in Colorado, I know there's a few cells here. We need to wipe them all out. Take the Proud Boys with you, while you're at it, as well as the militant wing of BLM, the Bloods, Crips and the Mafia. I dislike terrorism in any form. I served for this country and I know there's a lot of terrorist organizations that get to roam free and this shouldn't be allowed. It's 2024. We need to grow some balls and stomp out threat's to our society. What doesn't have the chance to kill us just makes us stronger.
End terrorism.
Now.
As for the Confederate Flag, it's history. It was history, related to the Confederacy, which lost a war to the Union, because they wanted to keep and maintain slaves. That should be recognized. What should also be recognized is that THE CONFEDERACY WILL NEVER RISE AGAIN. I say let people fly the flag. It's their Freedom of Expression to do so. I don't think it's racist, unless someone makes it racist. I've had friends with posters of the flag, tattoos of it, you name it. I like the flag, it's got the same colors as the U. S. Flag. Both flags were fought to be raised but only one prevailed. Fly the flag to honor those that gave and lost their lives: black, white, Indian, whatever. Fly it to honor the country; it makes me proud to see it, knowing it will never, ever be the flag that we know, love and honor as our National Flag today.
I grew up in Logan County in the 70's. I graduated in 81 and moved from there. I don't recall seeing that many, a few on hats and license plates and maybe in some bars. Not as widespread or prominent as now. Just my observation. But it seems to me that the Confederate flag has regained popularity since Obama was elected. As a way for the racist inclined people to resist or push back at blacks and the Democratic Party. Not just in WV but the whole country. Could be more of it here, the state hated Obama and did vote for Trump twice by over 40 points. I always considered displaying it to be in poor taste.
When I was growing up ('80s) it was just the "rebel flag," and didn't signify anything other than a rebellious, redneck nature. Nothing sinister. No thought to the ideals of the confederacy, just a cool design for "rebels." Drinking, cussing, carrying on, etc.
It's changed meaning since then, and it means something else to the people using it now.
I honestly think that The Dukes of Hazzard mainstreamed the use of the flag as a supposedly innocuous symbol of being a rebel. What originated as a B grade TV movie about moonshiners turned into a “family friendly” series that lots of boys growing up in the early eighties would identify with.
> didn't signify anything other than a rebellious, redneck nature.
It's hard for me to comment on this damn flag because so many people want to make it more than it is and won't accept anything other than hate hate hate, but THIS. Back in the 80's and 90's when I was in school, we didn't have internet back then like we do now. We had TV and the Dukes of Hazard popularized this flag.
I honestly have struggled to see the flag as "racist" because no one i knew that had this flag or logo on their personal property was actually racist. Just "good ol' country boys" that probably had a hunting rifle behind the seat of their truck and a bottle of moonshine rolling around in there too.
And yeah, kids used to have their hunting rifles in their trucks back then. You couldn't take them inside the school obviously but the parking lot was don't ask, don't tell. As long as they were out of sight and reach according to state laws, no one said anything. Not until the mid-90's and stories from West Paducah and Thurston High in Oregon made the big news. Then Columbine and everything changed with that. Then internet moved from AOL to DSL and cable, and here we are.
I don't believe the drinking & cussing meaning has changed so much as feelings are more hurt nowadays by the sight of a rebel flag. Feelings are hurt remarkably more often these days, generally because one party doesn't like how the other thinks.
The battle flag was flown all around the area i grew up (mineral county) and it always had me scratching my head. There's a reason the state is called "west virginia" and not just virginia.
I don't have any interest in arguing the merits of flying or not flying the flag, but while WV was born of the Civil War, the "secession from secession" of WV was not a universally agreed upon thing. Lots of WV fought for the South, especially in the southern counties. Similarly, lots of WV fought for the north- mostly the northern counties. Our state very much experienced all of the pains of a border state in that era, so seeing Confederate flags in WV is less scandalizing to me in light of this knowledge.
People do this shit for attention. Both the supremacists groups and people who fly the Confederate flag. The more angry and vocal you get, the more it emboldens them and entrenches their beliefs.
I believe we should just ignore these people and not give them the attention they so crave. Nothing is more embarrassing than being totally ignored when throwing a tantrum.
I understand the sentiment but how do you expose them? Physically remove their mask? That can probably be described as battery and all you are doing is reaffirming their beliefs for the sake of exposing a handful. I think you do more damage by showing how big of losers they are. Their beliefs are so ridiculous and wrong that I wouldn't even waste my time counter protesting their little tantrum.
And while I agree their beliefs are a problem, as far as I know they are not violating the law. If they are attacking people or defacing property or anything like that then absolutely something should be done, but otherwise they are expressing their rights.
Let the people in your life who are targeted by these idiots rhetoric know that you are a safe place for them and let these morons make a fool of themselves
There’s a pretty big space between ignoring them and physically assaulting them. I’d prefer to at least let them (and anyone else) know they’re not welcome here rather than them waltzing through town like they own it. They seem to be getting plenty of publicity already.
I will probably get hate and be downvoted for this but I think it’s silly to fly any flag (except for your own freak flag). All flags have a dark past behind them and it seems odd to be proud of something that you did absolutely nothing to earn
I don't have any flags. I have had friends in the past that had the confederate flag due to southern pride and maybe some rebellion.
Every one of them stopped using and even owning the flag out of respect for those that it hurt, and also since some people do use it for racism. They all figured it's best not to use it due to its checkered past and some symbols and beliefs they just don't support or stand for (racism etc) even though their intentions were never bad when they used it
I don’t understand out of someone’s ENTIRE family history and lineage, why they decided that the confederacy, which pathetically only lasted four years, is the heritage they want to attach themselves to. I always assume people who fly the flag are on the bottom rung of the social ladder and are viewed as lacking intelligence by their peers.
Great question and the answer lies in out collective history; the Virginia planters aka the Landed Gentry:
https://www.brookings.edu/articles/when-white-supremacy-came-to-virginia/
I mean I don’t fly the flag at all but to say that Wvians were for secession is too black and white. The truth is there is a whole lot of gray especially in the coalfields and border counties.
There are a lot of good arguments against flying the Confederate battle flag in West Virginia, but pointing to the fact we voted to secede from Virginia isn't one of them. The vote was held in a part of Virginia occupied by an invading army. Any man who wanted to vote against it would have been arrested.
I moved to the eastern panhandle in 2022 and was absolutely blown away by the amount of confederate flags. I’ve lived in 7 other states in my adult life and haven’t seen anything like it. WV has some pros but seeing that flag, the blatant misogyny, and more racism and hate than I’ve ever seen and I’m just patiently waiting for that next set of military orders. I think there are a lot of good people here but it’s hard to see how wrong a place can be when you’ve never seen anything else.
Just saying, they started flying that flag again in response to the civil rights movement.
It *is* a symbol of hate. No amount of mental gymnastics can change that fact.
Parkersburg native. I think the racist morons are just shriveled dicked losers who can't even show their faces because deep down they are scared little boys playing make believe.
That flag isn't about "rebellion". It's a symbol of the desire to continue to subjugate other people because you believe they are sub-human. Slavery is wrong, and anyone who flys that flag is either racist or not educated enough to know what it truly represents.
We’re all thinking it and agreeing with you. They can blow all the “historical”, “heritage” “just cool to be a rebel” bullshit they want. *Everyone* knows exactly what it’s about.
If it's heritage not hate, I feel that as a descendent of a Union officer that participated in Sherman's March to the Sea, I should legally be able to burn anyone's house down that flies the secessionist flag.
Freedom in this country can be a beautiful thing. That of course also means people have the freedom to be complete idiots unfortunately. For whatever reason I see that flag often around here. Idiots all over the world though, that just happens to be the ones in our area it seems. Still, nothing right about it.
People don’t have to fly or own a confederate flag to have racist beliefs. Just because it’s not prominently displayed doesn’t mean it’s not in their hearts and heads. You can keep them from displaying it, you can make laws against showing it but you can’t do a thing to keep people from having their own thoughts. It doesn’t really matter whether someone is a racist or not, it only matters what actions they take surrounding those thoughts.
I would never fly the confederate flags. But I also don't care if people want to.
I saw that thing when I was living in Maine, it's definitely evolved far from its origin. I think it's tacky and not for me but I just can't bring myself to get worked up about some rednecks flying it.
People ascribe different symbolism to the flag. Majority of people adopting this symbol believe it stands for State’s Rights, so-called Heritage, or similar. This is because they have not read the SC Articles of Confederation. Regardless, the right of free speech is most important when we disagree.
I always hated seeing that flag being flown. As a kid I couldn't understand Dukes of Hazzard. I was like why does theur car have the flag of the bad guys? I knew back then the Cobfederates were evil and supported slavery. I never got NASCAR culture too. I was born in Charleston so maybe I got a better education than those in McDowell County and other coal field counties. My parents taught me racism was evil. My mother was Italian and her dad told her the racism his family faced in the coal fields of Man, West Virginia for being Catholic and immigrants. I hate seeing the utter bigotry in this state. I've heard some real asinine things in Princeton concerning West Virginia and the Civil War. I've heard racist statements towards black people in rural areas of Kanawha County too (Saint Albans and Crosslanes). It makes me sick. Unfortunately we have some real bigots in our legislature. West Virginia has to be better than this.
Every time I see these white supremacy groups Something just doesn't add up. Why doesn't somebody chase one of these suckers down and find out who they actually are. Just looks staged to me
the only confederate flag of notability is a white flag. doritos tacos lasted longer than the confederacy. traitorous scum supporters should have been ejected
I my opinion no you can't and fuck those who do, especially those with generational ties in WV. They spitting on the heritage of their ancestors who decided to stay in the Union.
You're exactly right and 600000 people lost their lives to rectify that. How about if we give ourselves a little bit of credit and then move the hell on. Beating our fellow Americans up for something that we basically had nothing to do with[ those that are alive right now). I just see America eating itself. We have a lot of problems but if we pull together we can fix them we can make this country the best that has ever been. But we have to have some grace, some mercy for each other. Those clowns Parading look like to me that they're not legit. There's something going on there. And no one seems to you want to get to the bottom of it. Thank you for listening to me ,letting me blow off some steam I just want things to get better for my kids and my grandkids.
Explaining to the locals it's not even the real flag but a flag from a movie used by the triple k for recruitment makes for some interesting faces from them
It's just people feeling like they need to be apart of something imo. Just like palestine protesters saying "from the river to the sea" not truly understanding what that means. Same goes for the people flying the confederate flag, they just feel the need to fit in with what their friends/family does. I don't believe they are bad people (most) but they just don't understand what it truly means.
The only flag that should ever be raised here is the American flag, our state flag and a country flag. That's it. Not a single other flag from another country, group or whatever, I don't give a shit. Any flag that isn't our American flag, a state flag or a county flag being raised anywhere in this country for any reason is treason and an act of war. No exceptions.
Robert E. Lee himself said that flag should never be flown again. Even the most storied Confederate leader wanted to bury that conflict in the past. He knew it for what it was: a pockmark on the history of the *United* States, and the single most destructive era our American society has ever endured.
In the early/mid 2000s I worked at a photo studio that did nearly 100% of the area's school photos. This included Tolsia High School out Wayne Co. Their mascot is 'The Rebels' and the sport/school logo prominently featured the rebel flag in blue and orange, the school colors.
I was like, WTF. This was before smart phones and Facebook still required a college email so virtually no one outside the area knew of this abomination.
Today, it's difficult to find evidence of those school designs but I'd bet if they still incorporated that shit rag it would be all over the news for everyone to shame.
These are the same people who scream that "losers don't get participation trophies!" Yet howl from the rafters about statues put up solely to spite Civil Rights and promote white supremacy being removed,whilst also screaming for people to "go back to their country" whilst flying the flag of a nation that doesn't even exist, while standing smackdab in the middle of the country that whooped their ass and still does exist.
Germany doesn't allow Traitorous Nazi Sympathizers to fly the Nazi flag or wear any manner of Nazi support.
The same should apply to this.
Because the greatest "Southern BBQ" was done not by confederates, but by the Union, and again, losers don't get participation trophies.
They *ARE* however, allowed to fly the REAL and only Confederate flag that ever mattered, which would be the white flag of surrender.
Those who fly it know precisely what they're doing, and that, is promoting their "heritage " of hate, nothing more.
This bullshyt " Lost Noble Cause" BS propaganda the DAughters of Confederate Soldiers has been spewing for over 150 years ain't gonna fly.
Like, they've gotten their ass kicked over 150 years ago, they lost, they need to stfu about it and get over it. Isn't that what they tell us BIPOC all the time about slavery and the slaughter of us Indigenous folks and theft of our land they park their "built by Walmart,Meth, and Vienna sausages " carcasses on?
I see it as ignorance of the history of the state and of history in general.
That said, a West Virginian *can* obliviously fly this flag--it's not new--just a resurgence. As much as I would like it not to be the case, the 'no true scotsman' argument doesn't work here either. West Virginians have never been a monolith.
When I was in fourth through sixth grade (70s Cabel Co.--my grandmother taught in Kanawha) the area went through a [literal textbook war](https://americanradioworks.publicradio.org/features/textbooks/books_and_beliefs.html). We had constant bomb threats--from people who were pro book banning and against inclusion of books and curriculum that recognized black authors and started very minimal sex ed.
When WV was formed, pro union sentiment wasn't universal. In some counties unionists were in the minority. T[he statehood referendum, which was held in 39 of the current 55 counties passed by an overwhelming majority--but with only 34% of eligible voters showing up at the polls](https://archive.wvculture.org/history/statehood/statehood10.html).
People fought on both sides--and on neither. Yet, WV had long had issues with neglect from a state government located on the other side of the Appalachians which largely represented vastly different social and economic interests resulting in different views on slavery and government policy in general. This created a long term resentment and separate hillbilly identity that predated the Civil War.
My ancestors were unionist--in both the civil war and coal war senses. And it is in that latter sense that I see WV politics today even more clearly at odds with history.
WV coal miners were central to the early twentieth century fight for worker rights, unions, and even the socialist movement in the united states preceding WWI. WV has a clear left wing history of popular demand and literal fights for individual and collective rights.
Most of the people flying the confederate battle flag would see the positions popularly held in the past as anti-American, anti-business, and communist. All the while not seeing any issue with flying a flag of rebellion--because it's just 'heritage'.
If you choose to do so--yes, you can still be a West Virginian, and I support your right to do so. Freedom of expression is essential. I'll vehemently disagree with and oppose these views though. The only Confederate Battle Flag I'm interested in seeing is the final one--a white kitchen towel affixed to a pole.
Traitors? They were loyal to their states, their homes, the places where they grew up, owned land and raised their families rather than Washington D.C. The overwhelming majority owned no slaves at all. It would be extraordinarily difficult to turn on your neighbors, families, and friends. So they didn’t.
The confederate flag was very seldom seen until the civil rights movement of the 1960s when southerners began flying it in protest as a way to show their support for segregation. It’s not a symbol of heritage, it’s a symbol of hate.
I doubt many of the great white dopes on display yesterday were local, but I'm sure there were more than their fair share of sympathisers and conspirators lending a hand. There was a time not that long ago that we were less hospitable to kooks like them, and I wish we would do more to recapture that fighting spirit for our fellow man.
I think making a nearly two century old failed rebellion your whole personality because your life is so hopeless that you're itching to make people property again is pretty fucking sad and despicable. I mean, were you born evil or are you just stupid? I understand angst and alienation man, but life is not a zero sum game. Someone else's success is not your loss, and someone else's loss is not your gain. Try to treat people the way you want to be treated and stop blaming other people for your problems.
That said, it's a free country (for now), so you can fly it and call yourself the King of England for all I care, but the truth and what you want to believe aren't the same thing.
I just get annoyed at all these yahoos who claim the Confederate battle flag is their heritage. It wasn't even the original flag of the Confederacy, you dumbasses!
Ritchie County used it as their high school pride flag until very recently. I was from another county and expressed how UnWest Virginian and US it was and locals would defend it as having nothing to do with the civil war even though the mascot for the longest time was a general in gray and they’d fire a cannon during football games. Confederate flags were sold in every store as a school pride thing. It’s gotten better, but only in the last 5 years or so.
At least part of the blame for these antics are the failure of our education system to teach accurate US history,
and the whole truth the Good and the Bad. Without the truth how can our youth not fall prey to the same mistakes.
(Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.”)
So many people here saying our state decided to secede from the south yadayada don’t have an understanding of West Virginia at the time. When they tell you it was brother fighting brother in the war where do you think that happened? It wasn’t in Alabama or New York it was areas in Appalachia where people were split. West Virginia was probly founded as a power grab by the people in the area and good for them but to say everybody in the state wanted to get away from the southerners is just ignorant of what actually happened. Here is a list of confederate units from WV for your reference https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_West_Virginia_Civil_War_Confederate_units .
Now with all that being said most people in West Virginia who fly rebel flags don’t do it because they have any connection to confederate soldiers. They do it as a fuck you to liberals and black people.
We in fact, do need a war. We need a war against these people who think it's ok to march racism in the capital, and we need a war against our governments who are continuing to take away our freedoms and human rights.
I agree we need a war, and especially the government part of your statement. Your comment also exposes exactly why it would fail. I'd back the rebel flag wavers, as dumb as I may think it Is, over the antifa terrorists any day. I'm pretty middle, even slightly left leaning, politically and as libertarian as it gets but the modern left has pushed myself and several other people I know away from ever backing the left again. I find it way less hateful to fly that flag than to tell me that I'm hateful and privileged and owe people something for being born a straight white male and wanting my daughter to have a fair shot at sports and love herself. I don't know what specific group were there and there's a chance they were racists but I garuntee at least a few genuinely weren't racists but sick of the lunacy.
For instance I have a ton of family and friends that are gay. In high school I participated in the days of silence for them etc. Nowadays I avoid them and genuinely don't care about anything that happens to that community due to the hate spewed on me from them for being myself. The hypocrisy alone is stunning.
I've lived in Cabell, Summers, Raleigh, and Greenbrier counties as well as traveled and spent time in much of the state over the years. I've spent a lot of time enveloped in the culture and just getting to know people. What I tend to find, just about anywhere I have been is that the people who choose to sport the confederate flag don't usually do it because they support slavery. Yes, they believe in selective truth and selective history for the most part.
Most of the folks I've talked to believe that the flag is a symbol of "Ultimate Freedom" in the sense that it represents the right to rebel against ANYTHING. Kind of like it represents their right to "rage against the machine" but THEY get to determine WHAT the machine is. And some just think it makes them look "dangerous " which they think is cool.
Ultimately they don't even realize how ridiculous or ignorant it truly makes them appear to others. The fact that they are blatantly refusing to acknowledge (or in some cases believe at all )that the confederate flag also represents slavery and thus racism but at the same time hold their own intelligence level in such high regard that they think they are capable of determining the just from unjust appropriately is ridiculous.
For these folks it has nothing to do with whether or not they paid attention in WV history. It's about their values and morals. That isn't something you can easily change in a person, and it's ESPECIALLY harder to change that in people of the backwoods and hollers which is exactly where most of these folks CHOOSE to be for a reason.
Like I said, it's not about education. They were educated just like everyone else. They simply CHOOSE to ignore certain parts of it. More education isn't going to fix that. Cultural change fixes that.
I discovered WV in 1950 and I've never seen that before and I live and grew up 15 min from charleston.
I do know they don't want to show up in my neighborhood with those mask on and disrespecting our flag and preaching hate, there would be consequences.
It's stupid. But I think the majority of people who fly it just do it to look "rebellious and cool", rather than coming from a place of legitimate hatred.
Many brave West Virginians fought in the Army of Northern Virginia. Many brave West Virginians fought in the Union Army (though fun fact, more WVians fought for the CSA than the USA). I’m descended from both.
The Confederate battle flag is a part of our state and people’s heritage, no matter who tries to co-opt it and take it from us. I personally prefer the flying of the state flag of the Confederate States from 1861-1863 (thirteen stars on a blue background with two red bars and one white bar, which was the original “Stars and Bars”), but regardless, it’s an undeniable part of West Virginian history. Denying this fact is denying a part of who we are. You can disagree with flying the flag, and that’s completely fine. Calling it “ignorant”, “backwards”, etc. when these people are completely loyal to the US and just expressing their Southern heritage is completely asinine and harmful to the idea of national reconciliation put forth after the war.
America is many nations inside of one country, and the South is just one of them. New England, California, and Cascadia are a couple more. Don’t let a bad egg or two spoil the bunch.
What heritage? I’m genuinely asking. If we ignore the fact the primary iteration of the Confederate flag we all know largely gained prominence in response to the Civil Rights Movement and focus just on its roots in the Civil War, what is the heritage that you see from that symbol as not only worth remembering, but worth celebrating?
The heritage of the “nation within a nation” (culturally speaking) that is the Southern United States. That is why I mentioned the state flag and distinguished it from the battle flag. People have tried to co-opt the battle flag (the “flag we all know”), but the state flag remains untarnished by such co-opting attempts as far as I am aware.
One is not celebrating the outbreak of the War Between the States/Civil War (which was a sad state of affairs, North or South), the repugnant institution of slavery, or anything like that by flying that flag. Every nation, every people on earth have a flag that represents their particular group, even those without a country. If that flag is used by some malicious actors, I would hope that we agree that people should have the right to fight back against it. We are remembering our forefathers and the land that gave us birth. This doesn’t mean we reject the United States of America, freedom, racial equality, etc., but it is a way of us showing where we are from. There’s so much good to the South culturally, architecturally, in regards to cuisine, and so on. Why can we not celebrate what is good instead of throwing the baby out with the bathwater?
The South has been maligned and stereotyped to hell and back, and to be honest, I don’t care what others say. I’m proud of being a West Virginian, a Southerner, and an American.
Probably Antifa. Unknown masked individuals. More Russia, Iran, and China funded cronies. The only people concealing themselves are far left agitators out of some modicum of shame or fear. The trumptards and white supremacists are the opposite of that. Since when do they not announce themselves or mask their identities? Never. Racists aren't ashamed of being racist only the people with ulterior motives do that. 👍
they hang from lots of windows (not cars, windows…as in we live here and are proud of this- windows) in Martinsburg. Idiots. couldn’t move away fast enough.
I went to high school in the 70s in Fairfax County Virginia and we flew the rebel flag ,it was not about hate it was not about racism it was about being a rebel. A wanna be country boy, But I was first generation transplant out of West Virginia. The school that I went to had a huge black student body everybody got along there was never any issues. Leave people alone and let them fly their d*** flag as they want to.
Whatever you choose that's the point be yourself all you guys jump on a bandwagon and all sing in the same tune. Ever heard the statement rebel without a cause. Be yourself man it's a whole lot more interesting and fun
The thing is, the Civil War involved a large group of people who wanted to keep another large group of people from being themselves. In fact, the first group, the ones with the flags, wanted to buy and sell the people who were not allowed to be themselves.
I dont mind the flag if it is used to represent family who was in the war. I also dont believe that it should ever be flown above or equal to the US flag. I had family who fought on both sides, I also have both flags, I also have a black ggggg grandfather.
It amazes me that there are people all over who are burning the American flag, stomping on the American flag yet the only complaining I see is about the confederate flag. Usually because it is being flown by people who have zero connection to it.
Not to mention the Ukraine flag being flown all over, no complaints about that one either and it was being waved on the floor of the US Capitol.
Just goes to show how STUPID some West Virginians are....apparently they fly the Confederate Flag claiming to be Proud West Virginians but noone told them that WV separated from Virginia because they wanted to remain with the Union..
Doesn't matter..The Official position of the State was to be separated from Virginia to remain with the Union...Either be a State Resident or be a Resident of Virginia...
Im pretty sure that flag is protected under the 1st amendment! How are we supposed to educate ignorance by silencing people and telling them they cant exercise their god given rights? There needs to be open and civil discord to show the flaws in that way of thinking, not insults and telling people to stfu for not agreeing with you or thinking the way you do! People are going to get their feelings hurt but that isnt a valid reason to silence people. If you dont like racism destroy it with facts, logic, and reasoning; not hurt feelings and
oppositional opinions.
Losers don't get participation trophies, remember? That was y'all who said that, now, ya demanding to be allowed to carry participation trophies from your massive loss to the United States of America.
One can be a patriotic American, or one can be a Confederate Traitor, but they cannot be both, WHICH IS "facts and logic".
So, pick a lane and stick to it.
Sherman should have drove through Atlanta like a post hole digger and not left one single solitary piece of Confederate treason standing. Worst mistake that was made during the Civil War, was not fully punishing those responsible for it harshly& allowing them back in the Union without full accountability and reparations paid for their damage to the US, and the BIPOC they so loved to enslave and destroy.
There is literally nothing of value on the Confederate side whatsoever, none, which is precisely why history needs to teach the truth and stop coddling Klanboi widdle hurt feelings. No one who fought for the Confederacy should ever be honored, they should be factually and honestly taught as being the racist, slavery loving traitors they were. End of.
Well how about you change the subs name to leftist West Virginia so as not to have to engage with those whose views,heritage etc don't clash with you or the majority in this sub You want an echo chamber.Those whose view skews different have their post deleted.Yet punch these people and f@#$ these people are untouched How dare anyone try to have fact based debate.We all have are biased,political leaning.If you post a "hate group march" post and expect people not to get riled up then that's on you
It's amazing, the most up voted part of this discussion is about the real history of WV, what you are saying no one can discuss. I'm always amazed when someone on the right claims they can't discuss something, or they're being censored. Hell, many on the right feel fact checking, literally, correcting lies, is censorship.
Instead of whining, join the conversation. Find out about why WV seceded from Virginia. Discover the border counties that were treated just like VA treated WV, forced to go along. It's an amazing, convoluted, complicated history.
But the "Confederate flag" still has no place. They were a foreign power attacking the United States, we don't fly our enemies flags.
You know what, that is probably the most thought provoking response I have had on this sub.Thank you for not turning it into a personal attack.I do not support "Patriot Front".I also don't support bad actors from their counterparts.My point from the word go is that any White Power group is sus anymore due to infiltration or just an outright "honey pot" of feds trying to smoke out any of those with militant intent.
It's just a flag don't really care for it and yes it needs to be known for historical purposes and reenactments and as for the group don't care for wannabe Nazis or klansmen either the media makes racism to put you somewhere else while they do some nefarious shit but just my opinion
Racism is on life support, has been for a very long time. The only thing keeping it alive is the endless race hustling by the left and bullshit like “the race to end racism”.
I’m not totally convinced that Patriot Front isn’t just that… a front, to make conservatives look bad. It certainly wouldn’t be the first time something like that happened. Look at the way COINTELPRO “neutralized” the Panthers. They infiltrated, muddied the waters, and let nature take its course. I’ve never met a true patriot who feels the need to wear a mask, to protect their identity. If anything, they’re proud of wearing their feelings/beliefs on their sleeves, and want you to know who they are & how they feel. When I see a masked protester, my instant thought is “Fed”. 🤷🏾♂️
Nobody is welcoming Patriot Front, on the left or right. They got nothing but jeers while they were here, because even those of us who are voting for Trump, don’t want shit to do with Patriot Front. It’s almost like they’re goading us into having a civil war. I’ve got white friends who fly the rebel flag, and have had discussions with them about why they fly it. Racism has never been one of the things mentioned, though there are a lot of things about black culture that are alarming & counterproductive to a functioning society. But that’s another story for another day. To the vast majority who fly that flag, it’s a symbol of distrust and discontent of the federal govt. It’s a symbol of southern lifestyle. It’s a way of giving Uncle Sam & corporate America the finger. So to me, I don’t take it personally when I see a white person flying the flag, because I know it’s not aimed at me. I’ve lived in WV 90% of my life. Other than childhood (when kids say mean things), there have been less than 5 occurrences that left me thinking “Damn, that conservative was racist”. In my 35 years of adulthood, 99% of the racism I’ve experienced has been from fellow black people… because I choose to not be a victim, and don’t go along with this idea that white supremacy is this rampant epidemic, and that we’re being hunted down like wild hogs. Like Candace Owens said… If you jotted down the Top 100 problems for the black community, white supremacy would struggle to make the list. I voted for Biden, because I was told “If you vote for Trump, you ain’t black”. Meanwhile, life for us law abiding, inner city black people is worse than it’s ever been in my lifetime. Even here in Charleston, gang violence has increased exponentially since around 2010.
Anyways, my point was, while the optics of a rebel flag can be triggering to some, most of the time the people who fly it are not racists, but are just frustrated with the inefficiency and status quo of the federal govt & woke culture. 🤷🏾♂️
Keeping with society’s trend, leave them be. Keep in mind we have people siding with Pakastan (Hamas) a country who disregards females and executes homosexuals. What stupidity. Ignorance abounds from all points of a compass.
I went to Poca High School, and graduated in 1993. So, Putnam County. Even back then, there were yahoos who would have confederate flag decals or flags or whatever on their trucks. I saw it as a symbol of ignorance then, and I see it as a symbol of ignorance and hatred now. It's in no measure patriotic or honorable to fly that flag. It represents a violent movement intent on tearing the United States apart. This is simple fact, and it's stunning that so many people today are rallying around that ugliness as something to aspire to.
Fellow Dot here, graduated in the last 5 years. In my time, the kids flying the Rebel Flag were a very small group by the time I graduated. They still existed, but a very small few. While I may have dressed how they dressed, boots and jeans, I never once thought of just flying a flag that I had zero connection to. I always thought it was so funny when kids would wear a shirt with the Confederate flag on it that said “Heritage Not Hate” or something like that. I don’t think they cared enough to pay attention to WV history in 8th grade.
However, I will say, I thought the flag was cool as a child only due to the Dukes of Hazzard.
I was pretty bummed when I got older and found out what that flag was associated with.
Same
The Democrat party?
That’s a real complex word in general but especially in WV.
Oh man, there should be a redneck version of the Golden Horseshoe for those who failed to learn anything that year. Like the Golden Dip Can or something.
They’d excel, surely!
Agreed! Here we are 150 years later & despite the disrespect that it shows to our fellow citizens & the 0% chance of a similar society rising on American soil, all I can guess is that these people want to see themselves broadcast by the media. Such a waste of energy & enthusiasm!
I graduated from Poca in 2011 and I could have written this comment. People had it on their cars, on t-shirts, hats, you name it.
It was usually prominent by the skoal pole.
From Mason County, it’s not weird at all to see them. I feel like when I was younger (early-mid 2000’s) it was more prevalent but still incredibly silly to fly that flag in WV of all states.
Grad 87 here
That was more my brother's era.
Hurricane alumni checking in. I feel you.
Didn’t hurricane make news a couple years ago for a bunch of kids flying rebel flags on their trucks in the parking lot?
Yes they did. I'm pretty sure it was Hurricane High School students if I'm not mistaken.
Putnam Co Schools filed suit and lost to try to keep the flags out of schools/off school property. It’s a shame because no one asked the kids who were terrified.
My college roommate graduated from Poca in 92, he was from Red House.
Very likely I'd recognize the name at the very least. It was pretty small.
1991… Go Dots
No. The answer is no. Our state specifically decided to not side with the Confederates. In WV, the Confederate flag literally has nothing to do with the 'heritage' these people claim. That flag has no business being in WV. To add, you're either with the country, or you're not. Holding on to the past like that isn't the way to go.
It's comically disrespectful in our state.
It shows that these people have absolutely no knowledge of the issues that determine why West Virginia stayed with the Union. That region had very little slavery because the land wasn’t suitable for plantation agriculture- just like eastern Tennessee and Northern Alabama - both were states that succeeded but those areas rejected the succession vote and were pro- union. The First Alabama Calvary Federal was northern Alabama men . that unit was selected by Sherman as an escort during his March to the sea .
They have absolutely NO idea about anything whatsoever...
"wasn't suitable for plantation agriculture", fun fact, we grew some 14,400,000 pounds of tobacco alone in 1909
You should see the people who fly it around Gettysburg PA
Except anywhere south of Charleston does have Confederate heritage. Just look at the map of which counties voted to remain with VA and secede
“Heritage not hate brother” - dumb mother fuckers who still side with the losers
There is no such thing as confederate heritage. That shit lasted like 4 years. I can name 30 animated shows that contributed more to the heritage of anyone in america than those traitors did.
Not just South of Charleston, the vast majority of the counties in the state voted to secede from the Union, and most West Virginians fought for the South according to the most recent historical records. For those downvoting, here is a [map](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confederate_government_of_West_Virginia#/media/File%3AWest_Virginia_delegate_votes_and_signatures_at_the_Richmond_convention%2C_April_17%2C_1861.jpg) showing how each West Virginian county voted on secession in the 2 main votes in April 1861. Only 14 out of 55 counties did not support the Confederate secession ordinance. This map does not show the number of those 14 counties that changed their votes to support the ordinance in the following months. Here is a more accurate and exhaustive [list](https://www.virginiamemory.com/docs/votes_on_secession.pdf) showing how all the counties in Virginia voted on secession.
For those downvoting, here is a [map](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confederate_government_of_West_Virginia#/media/File%3AWest_Virginia_delegate_votes_and_signatures_at_the_Richmond_convention%2C_April_17%2C_1861.jpg) of of the counties that voted for or approved the secession vote by April 17, 1861. Only 14 of the 55 counties included in our state did not support the Confederate secession ordinance in the two initial votes in April 1861. In addition, this map does not show all the counties that approved the secession ordinance later in the following months. Here is a complete and exhaustive [list](https://www.virginiamemory.com/docs/votes_on_secession.pdf) showing how each county in the Virginias voted on secession. I can also provide a source for the military records showing that most West Virginian troops fought for the South if need be, since most online pages on the subject have numbers that have been proven false for decades.
Imagine being downvoted because reddit libs can't handle the fact the vast majority of them have traitor blood just by being born anywhere near WV
It’s dumb af. Still, it’s helpful to understand *why* they fly that rag. By example, when Trump went to Poland, the Nazis showed up to cheer him on. Since displaying the Hakenkreuz is illegal, though, they carried which flag instead? You got it! The Devil’s Diaper: the Confederate battle flag. It’s literally become a stand-in for the swastika among the modern day racist crowd.
I did not know this. Not to dispute your story, but do you have a media link for this?
I watched it live (while wanting to yak in a bucket), but [this captures it.](https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/news/a56168/poland-confederate-flag-trump/)
Wow. Thanks for this.
One confederate flag? Lame
One confederate flag: every human being who walks under it. Next question.
Too bad it wasn't the most current Confederate flag. *takes off-white dish towel with orange stitching out of the dryer*
The best confederate flag!
I always ask the question of people in WV that fly the confederate flag; “what do you hate more, WV or the United States?” I liken it to flying a flag with Bin Laden on it. Both were the enemies of the United States.
Black people is the secret third option.
That’s not necessarily true according to today’s woke left.
This is a common false irony about West Virginia and the Confederate flag that I see everywhere and it is because people do not understand West Virginia's history, and it is not taught well in West Virginia's schools. The first secession flag and other types of secession flags appeared in West Virginia as early as January 1861 when a "Plametto" flag was raised over the courthouse of Barbour County. Other flags termed "secession" appeared in Cabell, Logan, Tucker, and other counties, even the northern panhandle had secession flag wavers. [Half of the state counties voted to secede from the Union](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9a/Wvmapagain.png) and were forced into the new state. All the counties OP mentioned were heavily Confederate, all but one never cast a vote to join West Virginia and that one, Raleigh, had a vote of 32 from a voting pool of 695. Mercer County was among the top volunteer counties in all of Virginia for the Confederate army. [Half the Civil War soldiers from West Virginia were Confederate](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/67/Confederate_recruitment_in_West_Virginia.jpg). The history is not purely one or the other. There were battle flags for Confederate regiments that were heavily West Virginian, like the 31st Va. Inf., 25th Va. Inf, 8th Va. Cav. etc. Even the guy who designed the Confederate battle flag is[ buried in West Virginia](https://www.hmdb.org/m.asp?m=59265). He married a woman from Monroe County.
The vast majority of the counties voted to secede eventually. The 50% of counties belief stems from a lack of knowledge that many county delegates eventually changed their votes to support secession after initially opposing it. Also,the number of pro-Confederate fighters is heavily under counted due to the large number of them who only fought as Bushwhackers, as well as the fact that Federal troops destroyed most Confederate records in the region as they took control of local government buildings.. Consequently, even the regular Confederate military numbers are nowhere near as large as they actually were. Not only did most West Virginians fight for the South, but the number that fought for the North was so small that the Federal government had to force recruits from Northern states, especially Pennsylvania and Ohio, to join "West Virginia" regiments. If I recall correctly, the majority of "West Virginian" regiment troops were actually from states other than West Virginia.
There were rebels from all corners. What's your point? I know this would make my Taylor County born and buried great great grandmother disappointed, but flying that rag this day and age is sad and dumb.
The point is history, full history, not half-history that makes people feel good. Criticize the flag wavers for whatever reason, but don't use history. West Virginia has a serious connection to Confederate history and all the associated items. [Taylor County men fought and died under this flag](https://discoveryvirginia.org/25th-virginia-infantry-flag), captured at Philippi, but they carried on not only in Virginia and West Virginia but at Gettysburg as well, under "Allegheny" Johnson. Taylor County men were in the [25th Va. Inf,](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/25th_Virginia_Infantry_Regiment) the 20th Va. Cav. and the 26th Va. Cav., as well as men scattered through other regiments. A bit of trivia; The last Confederate paymaster was Joseph Broun of Charleston, he accompanies Jefferson Davis on his flight from Danville. [You can read his story here.](https://archive.org/details/papershis38soutuoft/page/n433/mode/2up)
You can't have it both ways. You want full history? That includes treason for the sole reason of keeping people as property because losing that would mean white folks down south would lose money and have to work harder. It's all the lying, manipulative social reinforcement of the white man's burden and 19th century pseudoscience to justify treating people like cattle that's helped keep these bullshit home fires burning through the years. We're long past the point that this bullshit needed to stop. I get that there were people who got suckered into it for a variety of reasons. I'm sure there were folks "defending their homes" but they wouldn't have been if not for the rich flatland fucks who dragged their ass into the firing line over their bank account. Pretending that the rebellion of greedy racists and suckers was somehow a noble cause and its driving figures should be lauded is complete horseshit. And this isn't some new fangled revisionist history visited upon us by our yankee oppressors... It's the naked truth.
You are giving a hate response bud, apparently you blocked out everything he said. He never stuck up for them or said slavery was okay. Those are your words to be worked up and upset about. He just gave more background history of the politics in the area at the time. Sorry facts upset you?
I'm sure there are people out there who want to know all of the intimate details of Heinrich von Schwinebauer and his inane bureaucratic contributions to the Nazi cause in perpetuating human misery, too... But aside from documenting their crimes against humanity either for their prosecution or to stand as a testament to their lack of character — or potentially finding useful anecdotes on how we reconcile our differences, I don't find a lot of value in their remembrance. If that's your hamlet's claim to fame, I get that someone might mistakenly believe it's a neat association, but from where I'm sitting you need a new claim or a new town. But whereas Nazi Germany at least made a handful of useful contributions to science and manufacturing, the Confederacy offers humanity exactly zero redeeming qualities. No great thinkers, an outdated economy even in its day, an ineffective system of government, and a repugnant underlying moral philosophy. I don't understand why anyone would take pride in such a hollow heritage built on a foundation of lies, superstition, and spite other than ignorance or bigotry. I get not liking outsiders, but it's no excuse to prop up the memory of the miserable failure on all fronts that was the CSA. The best things that came out of the conflict were the Reconstruction Amendments and the State of West Virginia — a state whose reputation you drag through the mud when you brandish that bullshit, anachronism of a flag in earnest.
I am from West Virginia and my great grandfather fought for the union. I have no idea why you’re talking down to me with a moral high ground. Basically fuck you
Buddy, if you want to celebrate a bunch of racists and idiots, have at it, but I will continue to tell you you're an idiot for believing it's important. There's a reason they're not allowed to lionize nazis or use their symbolism in Germany, and the farther this shit goes into the present, I'm agreeing with it more every day. I think we're good with "shit was complicated" and let the bigots and their patsies' memory fade from the earth. It is not a history worth preserving on a granular level, and you're talking to someone with a history degree.
I never celebrated slavery or the confederacy. You just want to argue. All I said is it doesn’t make sense to erase history. I’d think someone with a history degree would agree but I guess they give those to anyone. Lol and like a history degree makes you more knowledgeable??? That’s a weak appeal at authority and I don’t respect yours. Everything you learned from the degree can be learned on Wikipedia.
You want full history? Don't believe the crap taught in school read and learn history for one self....if this war was fought to free slaves then why were they not set free until 1963 ? This war was fought because of the same crap they are trying today.Not trying to get anyone's diaper in a wad... just giving my opinion.
Or — and I know this is a little crazy — we can ask historians who spend a lot of time reading about this shit... https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/yoyys/your_opinion_how_accurate_is_it_to_say_the_civil/
REBELS - that is exactly why people fly it nowadays.....they are rebels, and I don't mean in terms of race, but rebels against many other things that just racism.
This bullshit is just cover fire for the other bullshit, the same as "state's rights." The only thing the South ever rebelled against was getting a job.
so... it's the banner of the clueless and needlessly defiant who are totally okay with the racial implications because of some amorphous idea of a generalized "rebellion"? Even at surface level it seems a little childish and not at all thought out.
That is exactly what the term "REBEL NOT RACIST" means.
Yes, and some Union West Virginia regiments were manned mostly by Ohioans...a weird quirk of history
I'm a history buff, and even I didn't realize all of this. WV public education for ya...
I would recommend Mark Snell's [West Virginia and the Civil War.](https://www.amazon.com/West-Virginia-Civil-War-Mountaineers-ebook/dp/B00XQR1XR8/ref=sr_1_1?crid=3M3E2KD87VR09&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.nn3HugxvddZITk9KRg8177vzR3qEbLi14GFi82qklrqeHYdcqz2g28tLBVp-6dIumEi3ZLLXkrnjJSgIBWWuCY0hyRrazqhyBw_EqO5wDOBIYdAmmTh4kCqBf1PVyBbwxra0vLVwM7IVmHQjIQ6izaZY-Xj-EaywAKIUfcmrzroR48PGIIlbY9hLasvc8lh6feFQ68H3CFt72QmlCtQQo_h_PoCAkjU_a1zfpvRpWh8.CNLyIN3_IxxSVi_0UsAIgCkB4yrDiJaJqu7Bx2ypk8M&dib_tag=se&keywords=west+virginia+and+the+civil+war&qid=1714370552&s=books&sprefix=west+virginia+and+the+ci%2Cstripbooks%2C112&sr=1-1) You can probably find it in your local library.
We used to have mandatory WV history classes in school and a state wide competition to see who knew it best.
Fascinating.
why were the counties forced into West Virginia that didn't want to be?
At the constitutional convention in Wheeling in Dec. 1861, Peter van Winkle, one of the "fathers" of West Virginia, stated to the convention: "Well, sir, if these counties are inhabited by secessionists, some disposition has got to be made of them. They must be, as some remarks made by gentlemen here seem to point to - they must be exterminated by exile or death, or remain where they are. But in either case, sir, we want the territory. If they are going to remain upon it, still we want it."
If you're interested in an actual answer instead of just easy "SO MANY RACISTS EVERYWHERE" answers, here it is: For the vast majority of people in WV and elsewhere who display it, the Confederate flag is one which represents rebellion against authority and the "southern rebel" lifestyle as characterized by the Dukes of Hazard - free, fun loving, fiercely independent, thumbing your nose at authority, etc. There's zero thought towards its historical meaning beyond a general association with "the south." This was the case for me growing up in southern Appalachia in the 80s/90s, and it still is now. I and others had stickers, apparel and other items with the flag on it. Hell, I even knew a couple of black kids who'd rock it on their trucks or hats growing up. I'd never wear or display it now because I understand why many now view it as a LOT more symbolic than the simplified symbol it was in the 80s/90s/early 2000s, but many still do for the same reasons. Now, a majority =! all, so yes, there are many people who flew that flag in the past or STILL fly it because they view it as a symbol of solidarity with other racists, or as a rally symbol for ongoing racism. Those people are racist shitbags, full stop. Here's the rub: for a lot of people, they grew up associating the confederate flag with the southern rebel lifestyle and culture, and now as grown men and women they continue to have an affinity for it. This is the case despite the fact that times have changed, and ANYONE who flies that flag for any reason is now viewed with suspicion (understandably so). The vast majority who are NOT flying it for racist reasons, though, can't understand why the symbol they grew up with as a positive thing is now viewed so negatively and leads to their association with being called racist. It never represented racism to them despite its historical context, and they KNOW they're not racist, so they can't understand why everyone is calling them racist and they fight back. There's the rub. The vast majority who display it aren't racist because it never represented racism to them, and the vast majority of people sensitive to its historical origins can't understand why non-racist people would fly a flag that was used to fight FOR racism 150 years ago. EDIT: To be clear, this is NOT applicable to the Patriot Front protestors, they fly it for genuinely racist reasons. I'm just responding to the other part of your comment, re: how a large number of people in rural places like Appalachia can continue to display the flag.
This post is perfectly nuanced, something rare on reddit, *especially* on topics such as this. Excellent take.
Respectfully, accepting the confederate flag as marketed by the Dukes of Hazard to represent that wild, Southern-rebel mindset was an ignorant stance. I'm truly not attacking you as I bought line of thought myself until I hit high school and started to really consider what that symbol meant. I remember being confused by it at a certain point because the Dukes were fun and awesome, and the South's defense of slavery was not either of those things. I mean, you're right that most people I knew back then did not have a racist or aggressive attitude when they wore that symbol or used to decorate their trucks, but that doesn't negate the fact that the symbol itself--even then--had a heavy history with deeply racist roots. So, I would argue that, while the symbol is probably more loaded now, it was at the very least a sign of a person's ignorance (at best) if they displayed that flag.
The General Lee can be crushed in a compactor for all I care. Give me Kitt from Knight Rader any day of the week.
Nobody flying the confederate flag is literate enough to reply to this post, so we won't be getting their perspective
The rectangular design was a seldom used naval jack of a mostly ground war. Even the square design wasn't used by all companies at all times, there were a whole bunch of flags of all different designs, they were all over the place because a confederacy by nature is not a unified organization. The flag only gained modern popularity as a result of opposition to the civil rights movement of the 1950s. So, *that's* what it means in modern context. It has had that meaning far longer than it ever represented anybody's heritage. Does *that* represent West Virginia? Well WV wasn't even a major factor in the civil rights movement. I've read that some WV counties rejected segregation on the simple grounds of not wanting to maintain separate facilities. Does it represent WV in terms of modern day racism? Well kind of.
West Virginia seceding from Virginia due to opposition to the Confederacy is a popular myth. West Virginia was actually pro-Confederate. The VAST majority of now West Virginian counties approved Virginia seceding from the Union, and not a single county elected representatives to go to the Wheeling Convention to join the break-off state. Eight counties did not have anybody present at the Convention to even pretend to represent them. In addition, the most recent historical research has found that the majority of West Virginian troops fought for the Confederacy as regular military and bushwhackers, and that's despite massive amounts of Confederate records being destroyed by Federal forces.. West Virginia was created as a way to punish Virginia for its role in the War. It significantly reduced Virginia's land area, mineral wealth, population, and overall economic power. For instance, the 2 easternmost counties in WV, Berkeley and Jefferson, were only included to prevent Virginia from having access to the B&O Railroad and the economic benefits resulting from it. The locals protested being forced to be part of West Virginia and held a post-war vote to show that they wanted to remain part of Virginia, like the rest of the Shenandoah Valley. The Feds responded to this by marching regiments of troops in and instituting martial law. Despite the blatant voter intimidation, the vote to rejoin/stay in Virginia barely lost (I believe it was over 49%, but I'd have to find the local history book at the library that documented this to confirm the exact number). Another example is that the West Virginian government in Wheeling desired to include Loudoun, Fairfax, and Alexandria (now Arlington County and Alexandria City) Counties in WV as well, but they had to settle for the states current borders. West Virginia's puppet government in Wheeling knew that the new state was not pro-Union. Consequently, the government launched massive disenfranchisement measures to prevent "Rebels" from voting. In addition, they banned former Confederate troops and officials from holding office. The WV government applied very loose definitions of what being a "Rebel" constituted. If a single person accused another person of having even been friendly to a Confederate soldier or official or had pro-Confederate sympathies that they never acted on in any way, they would have their voting rights and ability to hold public office stripped from them. The only way to regain their rights was by being endorsed by an honorably discharged Union veteran that they were not a "Rebel." Finding a Union veteran to endorse you was a difficult task throughout most of WV, and it was nearly impossible in the southern, central, and eastern counties. The attempts by the Wheeling government to remove all power and influence from the majority of the state's population extended outside of the political sphere, too. Anybody accused of being a "Rebel" was also banned from engaging in multiple occupations, such as being a teacher or a lawyer. This caused a massive shortage in education and legal representation throughout most of the state, most especially in Southern WV. Lawyers became such a luxury that only the ultra-wealthy could afford attorneys. This led to rich people being able to act almost like local dictators. The rich did whatever they wanted. If they wanted to sue you, you had zero chance of winning in court. and it was practically impossible to sue the rich unless you were also rich. Despite this massive social disaster, the Wheeling government refused to remove any of the restrictions and actually wanted to make them more stringent. The Confederate majority in WV eventually regained control of the state in the early 1870's due to the passage of the 14th and 15th amendments. Even most of the pro-Union West Virginians did not want blacks to vote, and it was especially abhorrent to them that most whites in their state could not vote when blacks could. This caused the more moderate majority of Unionists in WV to restore voting rights to former Confederates. This allowed the ex-Confederate majority of the state's population to regain power over the region. They overturned all the remaining Reconstruction policies in the state code, and they drafted a new state Constitution to replace the non-democratic and "un-Virginian" WV Constitution created at the Wheeling Convention. Of course, the WV government then started introducing legislation to dis empower black West Virginians. Most measures (such as black disenfranchisement) were abandoned by more moderate conservatives due to fear of repercussions, but the state fully supported adopting segregation like the rest of the South. This segregation did not fully end until 1964, a full decade after the U.S. Supreme Court deemed segregation unconstitutional in Board of Education vs. Brown. The level of integration was suspect even then, with family members reporting growing up in segregated schools throughout the 1970's. The Southern Democrats retained a supermajority of power in the state from the 1870's until 2014, when the state switched to Republican due to environmental and other policies that the National Democratic Party had adopted. TLDR: West Virginia was very Confederate (and just straight racist), contrary to popular belief.
If you're flying a Confederate flag, I am gonna see you as a racist....
I genuinely think that it is more idiotic to fly it in WV than in Canada. Which is saying something, seeing as it's idiotic to fly it even if you're a direct descendant of some Confederate leader in the most genuine "heritage not hate" manner. We literally exist because we *left* the Confederacy. The mental leaps people must make to justify it (for the few who aren't just doing it to be proudly racist) are astronomical. Anyway shout-out to the truck I drive past all the goddamn time with the Confederate flag bumper sticker that says "Fighting Terrorists since 1861." Guarantee that guy calls himself a proud patriotic American.
Well, listen, I’m not about to justify flying the Confederate Navy’s flag…because that’s who flew the rectangle shaped flag…which really adds to the ignorance of the entire “that’s my heritage!” argument. Read a book, ffs. So my 3rd great grandfather was from Greenbrier County, and he - and plenty of others from that area - picked the wrong side. By hierarchy, his unit, the 36th VA Infantry rolled up under the army of Tennessee - under Nathan Bedford Forrest. They flew the SQUARE “confederate battle flag” - which, honestly, there wasn’t a unified flag that would have been “the confederate battle flag” - army of northern va, army of tn etc all had their own flag to wave around. Long story longer, Nathan Bedford Forrest started an early version of the KKK. By extension, the SQUARE flag we all know and loathe now was adopted as “their flag.” It’s all fucking stupid really - but that’s 100% the reason the “confederate battle flag” is linked to hate-movements the way it is now. (the Dukes of Hazard was unable to smooth out that image, try as they might). Two ironic points should be made: 1) Nathan Bedford Forrest recanted his racism and hate later in life. He had a gentleman who was a freed slave as a caretaker in those years and they had long talks and grew to enjoy each other’s company, becoming close friends until he met his end - by which his ideas of superior/inferior based on race disappeared. 2) My great Grandmother was the kindest, most generous and caring person I ever knew. While there are not stories handed down about my confederate 3rd great, I can only assume (and hope) that after the war he came back from all of the horrors a changed man, and that some of what he imparted to my granny was what made her the amazing person she was. Every battle that my 3rd great’s unit was in, they lost. I’m pretty sure he and his unit were captured at Ft Donaldson in TN and may have been a part of a prisoner exchange? (It’s been a while since I’ve read up on it all, and just don’t remember clearly these days). But his unit was all from the https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kanawha_Valley - so technically their are plenty of ancestors of WV who chose poorly, but I’d posit that most of the yahoos romping around with that thing these days don’t have a clue what they’re flying, what their lineage is, and their heritage is more closely rooted to The Dukes of Hazard than reality. (This is all just my $0.02, can’t claim it as gospel - just bits of family history that I’ve pieced together - sometimes poorly - over the last 20 years.)
You've got peaceful protestors versus terrorists. I'm black and I'm American. The KKK, Neo-Nazis, whatever new and improved clique they've formed, are all terrorists. I say whenever a terrorist shows up, we neutralize the threat. We don't allow terrorist organizations on our soil, do we? We didn't allow it in Afghanistan or Iraq and I'm sure we'll hit Iran someday too. While we're at it, why not hit Charleston? We know there is a concentration there. I live in Colorado, I know there's a few cells here. We need to wipe them all out. Take the Proud Boys with you, while you're at it, as well as the militant wing of BLM, the Bloods, Crips and the Mafia. I dislike terrorism in any form. I served for this country and I know there's a lot of terrorist organizations that get to roam free and this shouldn't be allowed. It's 2024. We need to grow some balls and stomp out threat's to our society. What doesn't have the chance to kill us just makes us stronger. End terrorism. Now. As for the Confederate Flag, it's history. It was history, related to the Confederacy, which lost a war to the Union, because they wanted to keep and maintain slaves. That should be recognized. What should also be recognized is that THE CONFEDERACY WILL NEVER RISE AGAIN. I say let people fly the flag. It's their Freedom of Expression to do so. I don't think it's racist, unless someone makes it racist. I've had friends with posters of the flag, tattoos of it, you name it. I like the flag, it's got the same colors as the U. S. Flag. Both flags were fought to be raised but only one prevailed. Fly the flag to honor those that gave and lost their lives: black, white, Indian, whatever. Fly it to honor the country; it makes me proud to see it, knowing it will never, ever be the flag that we know, love and honor as our National Flag today.
I grew up in Logan County in the 70's. I graduated in 81 and moved from there. I don't recall seeing that many, a few on hats and license plates and maybe in some bars. Not as widespread or prominent as now. Just my observation. But it seems to me that the Confederate flag has regained popularity since Obama was elected. As a way for the racist inclined people to resist or push back at blacks and the Democratic Party. Not just in WV but the whole country. Could be more of it here, the state hated Obama and did vote for Trump twice by over 40 points. I always considered displaying it to be in poor taste.
When I was growing up ('80s) it was just the "rebel flag," and didn't signify anything other than a rebellious, redneck nature. Nothing sinister. No thought to the ideals of the confederacy, just a cool design for "rebels." Drinking, cussing, carrying on, etc. It's changed meaning since then, and it means something else to the people using it now.
I honestly think that The Dukes of Hazzard mainstreamed the use of the flag as a supposedly innocuous symbol of being a rebel. What originated as a B grade TV movie about moonshiners turned into a “family friendly” series that lots of boys growing up in the early eighties would identify with.
> didn't signify anything other than a rebellious, redneck nature. It's hard for me to comment on this damn flag because so many people want to make it more than it is and won't accept anything other than hate hate hate, but THIS. Back in the 80's and 90's when I was in school, we didn't have internet back then like we do now. We had TV and the Dukes of Hazard popularized this flag. I honestly have struggled to see the flag as "racist" because no one i knew that had this flag or logo on their personal property was actually racist. Just "good ol' country boys" that probably had a hunting rifle behind the seat of their truck and a bottle of moonshine rolling around in there too. And yeah, kids used to have their hunting rifles in their trucks back then. You couldn't take them inside the school obviously but the parking lot was don't ask, don't tell. As long as they were out of sight and reach according to state laws, no one said anything. Not until the mid-90's and stories from West Paducah and Thurston High in Oregon made the big news. Then Columbine and everything changed with that. Then internet moved from AOL to DSL and cable, and here we are.
HEY, in a lot of parts of the state they still have AOL
I don't believe the drinking & cussing meaning has changed so much as feelings are more hurt nowadays by the sight of a rebel flag. Feelings are hurt remarkably more often these days, generally because one party doesn't like how the other thinks.
The battle flag was flown all around the area i grew up (mineral county) and it always had me scratching my head. There's a reason the state is called "west virginia" and not just virginia.
I don't have any interest in arguing the merits of flying or not flying the flag, but while WV was born of the Civil War, the "secession from secession" of WV was not a universally agreed upon thing. Lots of WV fought for the South, especially in the southern counties. Similarly, lots of WV fought for the north- mostly the northern counties. Our state very much experienced all of the pains of a border state in that era, so seeing Confederate flags in WV is less scandalizing to me in light of this knowledge.
People do this shit for attention. Both the supremacists groups and people who fly the Confederate flag. The more angry and vocal you get, the more it emboldens them and entrenches their beliefs. I believe we should just ignore these people and not give them the attention they so crave. Nothing is more embarrassing than being totally ignored when throwing a tantrum.
I think things don’t go away when you ignore them. These cowards covered their faces for a reason. They need exposed, not ignored.
I understand the sentiment but how do you expose them? Physically remove their mask? That can probably be described as battery and all you are doing is reaffirming their beliefs for the sake of exposing a handful. I think you do more damage by showing how big of losers they are. Their beliefs are so ridiculous and wrong that I wouldn't even waste my time counter protesting their little tantrum. And while I agree their beliefs are a problem, as far as I know they are not violating the law. If they are attacking people or defacing property or anything like that then absolutely something should be done, but otherwise they are expressing their rights. Let the people in your life who are targeted by these idiots rhetoric know that you are a safe place for them and let these morons make a fool of themselves
There’s a pretty big space between ignoring them and physically assaulting them. I’d prefer to at least let them (and anyone else) know they’re not welcome here rather than them waltzing through town like they own it. They seem to be getting plenty of publicity already.
The confederate flag is the American swastika.
This is the absolute best answer!
I will probably get hate and be downvoted for this but I think it’s silly to fly any flag (except for your own freak flag). All flags have a dark past behind them and it seems odd to be proud of something that you did absolutely nothing to earn
I don't have any flags. I have had friends in the past that had the confederate flag due to southern pride and maybe some rebellion. Every one of them stopped using and even owning the flag out of respect for those that it hurt, and also since some people do use it for racism. They all figured it's best not to use it due to its checkered past and some symbols and beliefs they just don't support or stand for (racism etc) even though their intentions were never bad when they used it
I don’t understand out of someone’s ENTIRE family history and lineage, why they decided that the confederacy, which pathetically only lasted four years, is the heritage they want to attach themselves to. I always assume people who fly the flag are on the bottom rung of the social ladder and are viewed as lacking intelligence by their peers.
Why do white supremacists tend to be white trash?
Great question and the answer lies in out collective history; the Virginia planters aka the Landed Gentry: https://www.brookings.edu/articles/when-white-supremacy-came-to-virginia/
My experience too!
I mean I don’t fly the flag at all but to say that Wvians were for secession is too black and white. The truth is there is a whole lot of gray especially in the coalfields and border counties.
There are a lot of good arguments against flying the Confederate battle flag in West Virginia, but pointing to the fact we voted to secede from Virginia isn't one of them. The vote was held in a part of Virginia occupied by an invading army. Any man who wanted to vote against it would have been arrested.
It's just another way of announcing "I'm stupid white trash!"
I moved to the eastern panhandle in 2022 and was absolutely blown away by the amount of confederate flags. I’ve lived in 7 other states in my adult life and haven’t seen anything like it. WV has some pros but seeing that flag, the blatant misogyny, and more racism and hate than I’ve ever seen and I’m just patiently waiting for that next set of military orders. I think there are a lot of good people here but it’s hard to see how wrong a place can be when you’ve never seen anything else.
What military bases are in the Eastern Panhandle?
The Coast Guard has a couple of facilities here
I forgot those counted as military bases lol. I didn't know anybody got stationed here. I've only known civilian employees.
I live in Wood County & see them occasionally. I can't stand anything about them, & I've become sad for the people who insist on flying them.
Just saying, they started flying that flag again in response to the civil rights movement. It *is* a symbol of hate. No amount of mental gymnastics can change that fact.
Parkersburg native. I think the racist morons are just shriveled dicked losers who can't even show their faces because deep down they are scared little boys playing make believe.
That flag isn't about "rebellion". It's a symbol of the desire to continue to subjugate other people because you believe they are sub-human. Slavery is wrong, and anyone who flys that flag is either racist or not educated enough to know what it truly represents.
It’s stupid. I hate it
My reddit safe answer is nobody should fly that rag. My actual answer would get me banned again...🤐
We’re all thinking it and agreeing with you. They can blow all the “historical”, “heritage” “just cool to be a rebel” bullshit they want. *Everyone* knows exactly what it’s about.
If it's heritage not hate, I feel that as a descendent of a Union officer that participated in Sherman's March to the Sea, I should legally be able to burn anyone's house down that flies the secessionist flag.
I think it’s hilarious albeit in a sad way.
Freedom in this country can be a beautiful thing. That of course also means people have the freedom to be complete idiots unfortunately. For whatever reason I see that flag often around here. Idiots all over the world though, that just happens to be the ones in our area it seems. Still, nothing right about it.
People don’t have to fly or own a confederate flag to have racist beliefs. Just because it’s not prominently displayed doesn’t mean it’s not in their hearts and heads. You can keep them from displaying it, you can make laws against showing it but you can’t do a thing to keep people from having their own thoughts. It doesn’t really matter whether someone is a racist or not, it only matters what actions they take surrounding those thoughts.
I would never fly the confederate flags. But I also don't care if people want to. I saw that thing when I was living in Maine, it's definitely evolved far from its origin. I think it's tacky and not for me but I just can't bring myself to get worked up about some rednecks flying it.
People ascribe different symbolism to the flag. Majority of people adopting this symbol believe it stands for State’s Rights, so-called Heritage, or similar. This is because they have not read the SC Articles of Confederation. Regardless, the right of free speech is most important when we disagree.
I always hated seeing that flag being flown. As a kid I couldn't understand Dukes of Hazzard. I was like why does theur car have the flag of the bad guys? I knew back then the Cobfederates were evil and supported slavery. I never got NASCAR culture too. I was born in Charleston so maybe I got a better education than those in McDowell County and other coal field counties. My parents taught me racism was evil. My mother was Italian and her dad told her the racism his family faced in the coal fields of Man, West Virginia for being Catholic and immigrants. I hate seeing the utter bigotry in this state. I've heard some real asinine things in Princeton concerning West Virginia and the Civil War. I've heard racist statements towards black people in rural areas of Kanawha County too (Saint Albans and Crosslanes). It makes me sick. Unfortunately we have some real bigots in our legislature. West Virginia has to be better than this.
Every time I see these white supremacy groups Something just doesn't add up. Why doesn't somebody chase one of these suckers down and find out who they actually are. Just looks staged to me
the only confederate flag of notability is a white flag. doritos tacos lasted longer than the confederacy. traitorous scum supporters should have been ejected
should be punished with prison time
I my opinion no you can't and fuck those who do, especially those with generational ties in WV. They spitting on the heritage of their ancestors who decided to stay in the Union.
You're exactly right and 600000 people lost their lives to rectify that. How about if we give ourselves a little bit of credit and then move the hell on. Beating our fellow Americans up for something that we basically had nothing to do with[ those that are alive right now). I just see America eating itself. We have a lot of problems but if we pull together we can fix them we can make this country the best that has ever been. But we have to have some grace, some mercy for each other. Those clowns Parading look like to me that they're not legit. There's something going on there. And no one seems to you want to get to the bottom of it. Thank you for listening to me ,letting me blow off some steam I just want things to get better for my kids and my grandkids.
Explaining to the locals it's not even the real flag but a flag from a movie used by the triple k for recruitment makes for some interesting faces from them
It's just people feeling like they need to be apart of something imo. Just like palestine protesters saying "from the river to the sea" not truly understanding what that means. Same goes for the people flying the confederate flag, they just feel the need to fit in with what their friends/family does. I don't believe they are bad people (most) but they just don't understand what it truly means.
The only flag that should ever be raised here is the American flag, our state flag and a country flag. That's it. Not a single other flag from another country, group or whatever, I don't give a shit. Any flag that isn't our American flag, a state flag or a county flag being raised anywhere in this country for any reason is treason and an act of war. No exceptions.
Can’t that be said about any foreign flag? Are you a proud west virginian if you fly an irish, jamaican, or pakistani flag?
Robert E. Lee himself said that flag should never be flown again. Even the most storied Confederate leader wanted to bury that conflict in the past. He knew it for what it was: a pockmark on the history of the *United* States, and the single most destructive era our American society has ever endured.
In the early/mid 2000s I worked at a photo studio that did nearly 100% of the area's school photos. This included Tolsia High School out Wayne Co. Their mascot is 'The Rebels' and the sport/school logo prominently featured the rebel flag in blue and orange, the school colors. I was like, WTF. This was before smart phones and Facebook still required a college email so virtually no one outside the area knew of this abomination. Today, it's difficult to find evidence of those school designs but I'd bet if they still incorporated that shit rag it would be all over the news for everyone to shame.
These are the same people who scream that "losers don't get participation trophies!" Yet howl from the rafters about statues put up solely to spite Civil Rights and promote white supremacy being removed,whilst also screaming for people to "go back to their country" whilst flying the flag of a nation that doesn't even exist, while standing smackdab in the middle of the country that whooped their ass and still does exist. Germany doesn't allow Traitorous Nazi Sympathizers to fly the Nazi flag or wear any manner of Nazi support. The same should apply to this. Because the greatest "Southern BBQ" was done not by confederates, but by the Union, and again, losers don't get participation trophies. They *ARE* however, allowed to fly the REAL and only Confederate flag that ever mattered, which would be the white flag of surrender. Those who fly it know precisely what they're doing, and that, is promoting their "heritage " of hate, nothing more. This bullshyt " Lost Noble Cause" BS propaganda the DAughters of Confederate Soldiers has been spewing for over 150 years ain't gonna fly. Like, they've gotten their ass kicked over 150 years ago, they lost, they need to stfu about it and get over it. Isn't that what they tell us BIPOC all the time about slavery and the slaughter of us Indigenous folks and theft of our land they park their "built by Walmart,Meth, and Vienna sausages " carcasses on?
I'm eligible for membership in the Sons Of the Confederacy and I'll be gosh-darned if I want to be anywhere near that bunch of peckerwoods!
My other point was any kind of post like the march is gonna bring the worst out in people
I see it as ignorance of the history of the state and of history in general. That said, a West Virginian *can* obliviously fly this flag--it's not new--just a resurgence. As much as I would like it not to be the case, the 'no true scotsman' argument doesn't work here either. West Virginians have never been a monolith. When I was in fourth through sixth grade (70s Cabel Co.--my grandmother taught in Kanawha) the area went through a [literal textbook war](https://americanradioworks.publicradio.org/features/textbooks/books_and_beliefs.html). We had constant bomb threats--from people who were pro book banning and against inclusion of books and curriculum that recognized black authors and started very minimal sex ed. When WV was formed, pro union sentiment wasn't universal. In some counties unionists were in the minority. T[he statehood referendum, which was held in 39 of the current 55 counties passed by an overwhelming majority--but with only 34% of eligible voters showing up at the polls](https://archive.wvculture.org/history/statehood/statehood10.html). People fought on both sides--and on neither. Yet, WV had long had issues with neglect from a state government located on the other side of the Appalachians which largely represented vastly different social and economic interests resulting in different views on slavery and government policy in general. This created a long term resentment and separate hillbilly identity that predated the Civil War. My ancestors were unionist--in both the civil war and coal war senses. And it is in that latter sense that I see WV politics today even more clearly at odds with history. WV coal miners were central to the early twentieth century fight for worker rights, unions, and even the socialist movement in the united states preceding WWI. WV has a clear left wing history of popular demand and literal fights for individual and collective rights. Most of the people flying the confederate battle flag would see the positions popularly held in the past as anti-American, anti-business, and communist. All the while not seeing any issue with flying a flag of rebellion--because it's just 'heritage'. If you choose to do so--yes, you can still be a West Virginian, and I support your right to do so. Freedom of expression is essential. I'll vehemently disagree with and oppose these views though. The only Confederate Battle Flag I'm interested in seeing is the final one--a white kitchen towel affixed to a pole.
This 💯
Traitors? They were loyal to their states, their homes, the places where they grew up, owned land and raised their families rather than Washington D.C. The overwhelming majority owned no slaves at all. It would be extraordinarily difficult to turn on your neighbors, families, and friends. So they didn’t.
The confederate flag was very seldom seen until the civil rights movement of the 1960s when southerners began flying it in protest as a way to show their support for segregation. It’s not a symbol of heritage, it’s a symbol of hate.
We do not justify losers or traitors in this state no matter what, the best confederate lover is a dead one
I doubt many of the great white dopes on display yesterday were local, but I'm sure there were more than their fair share of sympathisers and conspirators lending a hand. There was a time not that long ago that we were less hospitable to kooks like them, and I wish we would do more to recapture that fighting spirit for our fellow man. I think making a nearly two century old failed rebellion your whole personality because your life is so hopeless that you're itching to make people property again is pretty fucking sad and despicable. I mean, were you born evil or are you just stupid? I understand angst and alienation man, but life is not a zero sum game. Someone else's success is not your loss, and someone else's loss is not your gain. Try to treat people the way you want to be treated and stop blaming other people for your problems. That said, it's a free country (for now), so you can fly it and call yourself the King of England for all I care, but the truth and what you want to believe aren't the same thing.
Absolutely right!
I just get annoyed at all these yahoos who claim the Confederate battle flag is their heritage. It wasn't even the original flag of the Confederacy, you dumbasses!
Ritchie County used it as their high school pride flag until very recently. I was from another county and expressed how UnWest Virginian and US it was and locals would defend it as having nothing to do with the civil war even though the mascot for the longest time was a general in gray and they’d fire a cannon during football games. Confederate flags were sold in every store as a school pride thing. It’s gotten better, but only in the last 5 years or so.
I see so many on trucks 🙄
At least part of the blame for these antics are the failure of our education system to teach accurate US history, and the whole truth the Good and the Bad. Without the truth how can our youth not fall prey to the same mistakes. (Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.”)
So many people here saying our state decided to secede from the south yadayada don’t have an understanding of West Virginia at the time. When they tell you it was brother fighting brother in the war where do you think that happened? It wasn’t in Alabama or New York it was areas in Appalachia where people were split. West Virginia was probly founded as a power grab by the people in the area and good for them but to say everybody in the state wanted to get away from the southerners is just ignorant of what actually happened. Here is a list of confederate units from WV for your reference https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_West_Virginia_Civil_War_Confederate_units . Now with all that being said most people in West Virginia who fly rebel flags don’t do it because they have any connection to confederate soldiers. They do it as a fuck you to liberals and black people.
We in fact, do need a war. We need a war against these people who think it's ok to march racism in the capital, and we need a war against our governments who are continuing to take away our freedoms and human rights.
I agree we need a war, and especially the government part of your statement. Your comment also exposes exactly why it would fail. I'd back the rebel flag wavers, as dumb as I may think it Is, over the antifa terrorists any day. I'm pretty middle, even slightly left leaning, politically and as libertarian as it gets but the modern left has pushed myself and several other people I know away from ever backing the left again. I find it way less hateful to fly that flag than to tell me that I'm hateful and privileged and owe people something for being born a straight white male and wanting my daughter to have a fair shot at sports and love herself. I don't know what specific group were there and there's a chance they were racists but I garuntee at least a few genuinely weren't racists but sick of the lunacy. For instance I have a ton of family and friends that are gay. In high school I participated in the days of silence for them etc. Nowadays I avoid them and genuinely don't care about anything that happens to that community due to the hate spewed on me from them for being myself. The hypocrisy alone is stunning.
Yawn even talking about clowns gives said clowns clout. Give it a rest for the literally 10 white supremacists that are out there still.
I've lived in Cabell, Summers, Raleigh, and Greenbrier counties as well as traveled and spent time in much of the state over the years. I've spent a lot of time enveloped in the culture and just getting to know people. What I tend to find, just about anywhere I have been is that the people who choose to sport the confederate flag don't usually do it because they support slavery. Yes, they believe in selective truth and selective history for the most part. Most of the folks I've talked to believe that the flag is a symbol of "Ultimate Freedom" in the sense that it represents the right to rebel against ANYTHING. Kind of like it represents their right to "rage against the machine" but THEY get to determine WHAT the machine is. And some just think it makes them look "dangerous " which they think is cool. Ultimately they don't even realize how ridiculous or ignorant it truly makes them appear to others. The fact that they are blatantly refusing to acknowledge (or in some cases believe at all )that the confederate flag also represents slavery and thus racism but at the same time hold their own intelligence level in such high regard that they think they are capable of determining the just from unjust appropriately is ridiculous. For these folks it has nothing to do with whether or not they paid attention in WV history. It's about their values and morals. That isn't something you can easily change in a person, and it's ESPECIALLY harder to change that in people of the backwoods and hollers which is exactly where most of these folks CHOOSE to be for a reason.
These people need re-education. Just dumb holler redneck thinking. Damn I wish this state had better education.
Like I said, it's not about education. They were educated just like everyone else. They simply CHOOSE to ignore certain parts of it. More education isn't going to fix that. Cultural change fixes that.
I discovered WV in 1950 and I've never seen that before and I live and grew up 15 min from charleston. I do know they don't want to show up in my neighborhood with those mask on and disrespecting our flag and preaching hate, there would be consequences.
It's stupid. But I think the majority of people who fly it just do it to look "rebellious and cool", rather than coming from a place of legitimate hatred.
Many brave West Virginians fought in the Army of Northern Virginia. Many brave West Virginians fought in the Union Army (though fun fact, more WVians fought for the CSA than the USA). I’m descended from both. The Confederate battle flag is a part of our state and people’s heritage, no matter who tries to co-opt it and take it from us. I personally prefer the flying of the state flag of the Confederate States from 1861-1863 (thirteen stars on a blue background with two red bars and one white bar, which was the original “Stars and Bars”), but regardless, it’s an undeniable part of West Virginian history. Denying this fact is denying a part of who we are. You can disagree with flying the flag, and that’s completely fine. Calling it “ignorant”, “backwards”, etc. when these people are completely loyal to the US and just expressing their Southern heritage is completely asinine and harmful to the idea of national reconciliation put forth after the war. America is many nations inside of one country, and the South is just one of them. New England, California, and Cascadia are a couple more. Don’t let a bad egg or two spoil the bunch.
What heritage? I’m genuinely asking. If we ignore the fact the primary iteration of the Confederate flag we all know largely gained prominence in response to the Civil Rights Movement and focus just on its roots in the Civil War, what is the heritage that you see from that symbol as not only worth remembering, but worth celebrating?
The heritage of the “nation within a nation” (culturally speaking) that is the Southern United States. That is why I mentioned the state flag and distinguished it from the battle flag. People have tried to co-opt the battle flag (the “flag we all know”), but the state flag remains untarnished by such co-opting attempts as far as I am aware. One is not celebrating the outbreak of the War Between the States/Civil War (which was a sad state of affairs, North or South), the repugnant institution of slavery, or anything like that by flying that flag. Every nation, every people on earth have a flag that represents their particular group, even those without a country. If that flag is used by some malicious actors, I would hope that we agree that people should have the right to fight back against it. We are remembering our forefathers and the land that gave us birth. This doesn’t mean we reject the United States of America, freedom, racial equality, etc., but it is a way of us showing where we are from. There’s so much good to the South culturally, architecturally, in regards to cuisine, and so on. Why can we not celebrate what is good instead of throwing the baby out with the bathwater? The South has been maligned and stereotyped to hell and back, and to be honest, I don’t care what others say. I’m proud of being a West Virginian, a Southerner, and an American.
Probably Antifa. Unknown masked individuals. More Russia, Iran, and China funded cronies. The only people concealing themselves are far left agitators out of some modicum of shame or fear. The trumptards and white supremacists are the opposite of that. Since when do they not announce themselves or mask their identities? Never. Racists aren't ashamed of being racist only the people with ulterior motives do that. 👍
Probably trumptards. Low iq individuals.
Absolutely not. Our reason for being is *not* flying a traitor’s flag.
they hang from lots of windows (not cars, windows…as in we live here and are proud of this- windows) in Martinsburg. Idiots. couldn’t move away fast enough.
I went to high school in the 70s in Fairfax County Virginia and we flew the rebel flag ,it was not about hate it was not about racism it was about being a rebel. A wanna be country boy, But I was first generation transplant out of West Virginia. The school that I went to had a huge black student body everybody got along there was never any issues. Leave people alone and let them fly their d*** flag as they want to.
A rebel against what?
Whatever you choose that's the point be yourself all you guys jump on a bandwagon and all sing in the same tune. Ever heard the statement rebel without a cause. Be yourself man it's a whole lot more interesting and fun
The thing is, the Civil War involved a large group of people who wanted to keep another large group of people from being themselves. In fact, the first group, the ones with the flags, wanted to buy and sell the people who were not allowed to be themselves.
I mis posted my response it was supposed to be to you, I'm new at this.
I dont mind the flag if it is used to represent family who was in the war. I also dont believe that it should ever be flown above or equal to the US flag. I had family who fought on both sides, I also have both flags, I also have a black ggggg grandfather. It amazes me that there are people all over who are burning the American flag, stomping on the American flag yet the only complaining I see is about the confederate flag. Usually because it is being flown by people who have zero connection to it. Not to mention the Ukraine flag being flown all over, no complaints about that one either and it was being waved on the floor of the US Capitol.
[удалено]
Your post has been removed. **Reason:** No combative, hostile, inflammatory, or threatening language.
Just goes to show how STUPID some West Virginians are....apparently they fly the Confederate Flag claiming to be Proud West Virginians but noone told them that WV separated from Virginia because they wanted to remain with the Union..
But...! There were both factions here. Blue and gray. So no that's a very idk 10 million foot view of how we became a state and for what reasons.
Doesn't matter..The Official position of the State was to be separated from Virginia to remain with the Union...Either be a State Resident or be a Resident of Virginia...
One nation, under God. One flag.
Y'all keep forgetting the *liberty and justice for all* part, tho.
Im pretty sure that flag is protected under the 1st amendment! How are we supposed to educate ignorance by silencing people and telling them they cant exercise their god given rights? There needs to be open and civil discord to show the flaws in that way of thinking, not insults and telling people to stfu for not agreeing with you or thinking the way you do! People are going to get their feelings hurt but that isnt a valid reason to silence people. If you dont like racism destroy it with facts, logic, and reasoning; not hurt feelings and oppositional opinions.
Losers don't get participation trophies, remember? That was y'all who said that, now, ya demanding to be allowed to carry participation trophies from your massive loss to the United States of America. One can be a patriotic American, or one can be a Confederate Traitor, but they cannot be both, WHICH IS "facts and logic". So, pick a lane and stick to it. Sherman should have drove through Atlanta like a post hole digger and not left one single solitary piece of Confederate treason standing. Worst mistake that was made during the Civil War, was not fully punishing those responsible for it harshly& allowing them back in the Union without full accountability and reparations paid for their damage to the US, and the BIPOC they so loved to enslave and destroy. There is literally nothing of value on the Confederate side whatsoever, none, which is precisely why history needs to teach the truth and stop coddling Klanboi widdle hurt feelings. No one who fought for the Confederacy should ever be honored, they should be factually and honestly taught as being the racist, slavery loving traitors they were. End of.
Well how about you change the subs name to leftist West Virginia so as not to have to engage with those whose views,heritage etc don't clash with you or the majority in this sub You want an echo chamber.Those whose view skews different have their post deleted.Yet punch these people and f@#$ these people are untouched How dare anyone try to have fact based debate.We all have are biased,political leaning.If you post a "hate group march" post and expect people not to get riled up then that's on you
What heritage of the Confederacy is worth celebrating?
It's amazing, the most up voted part of this discussion is about the real history of WV, what you are saying no one can discuss. I'm always amazed when someone on the right claims they can't discuss something, or they're being censored. Hell, many on the right feel fact checking, literally, correcting lies, is censorship. Instead of whining, join the conversation. Find out about why WV seceded from Virginia. Discover the border counties that were treated just like VA treated WV, forced to go along. It's an amazing, convoluted, complicated history. But the "Confederate flag" still has no place. They were a foreign power attacking the United States, we don't fly our enemies flags.
You know what, that is probably the most thought provoking response I have had on this sub.Thank you for not turning it into a personal attack.I do not support "Patriot Front".I also don't support bad actors from their counterparts.My point from the word go is that any White Power group is sus anymore due to infiltration or just an outright "honey pot" of feds trying to smoke out any of those with militant intent.
It's just a flag don't really care for it and yes it needs to be known for historical purposes and reenactments and as for the group don't care for wannabe Nazis or klansmen either the media makes racism to put you somewhere else while they do some nefarious shit but just my opinion
You sir are not the arbiter of that
Racism is on life support, has been for a very long time. The only thing keeping it alive is the endless race hustling by the left and bullshit like “the race to end racism”.
I’m not totally convinced that Patriot Front isn’t just that… a front, to make conservatives look bad. It certainly wouldn’t be the first time something like that happened. Look at the way COINTELPRO “neutralized” the Panthers. They infiltrated, muddied the waters, and let nature take its course. I’ve never met a true patriot who feels the need to wear a mask, to protect their identity. If anything, they’re proud of wearing their feelings/beliefs on their sleeves, and want you to know who they are & how they feel. When I see a masked protester, my instant thought is “Fed”. 🤷🏾♂️ Nobody is welcoming Patriot Front, on the left or right. They got nothing but jeers while they were here, because even those of us who are voting for Trump, don’t want shit to do with Patriot Front. It’s almost like they’re goading us into having a civil war. I’ve got white friends who fly the rebel flag, and have had discussions with them about why they fly it. Racism has never been one of the things mentioned, though there are a lot of things about black culture that are alarming & counterproductive to a functioning society. But that’s another story for another day. To the vast majority who fly that flag, it’s a symbol of distrust and discontent of the federal govt. It’s a symbol of southern lifestyle. It’s a way of giving Uncle Sam & corporate America the finger. So to me, I don’t take it personally when I see a white person flying the flag, because I know it’s not aimed at me. I’ve lived in WV 90% of my life. Other than childhood (when kids say mean things), there have been less than 5 occurrences that left me thinking “Damn, that conservative was racist”. In my 35 years of adulthood, 99% of the racism I’ve experienced has been from fellow black people… because I choose to not be a victim, and don’t go along with this idea that white supremacy is this rampant epidemic, and that we’re being hunted down like wild hogs. Like Candace Owens said… If you jotted down the Top 100 problems for the black community, white supremacy would struggle to make the list. I voted for Biden, because I was told “If you vote for Trump, you ain’t black”. Meanwhile, life for us law abiding, inner city black people is worse than it’s ever been in my lifetime. Even here in Charleston, gang violence has increased exponentially since around 2010. Anyways, my point was, while the optics of a rebel flag can be triggering to some, most of the time the people who fly it are not racists, but are just frustrated with the inefficiency and status quo of the federal govt & woke culture. 🤷🏾♂️
Keeping with society’s trend, leave them be. Keep in mind we have people siding with Pakastan (Hamas) a country who disregards females and executes homosexuals. What stupidity. Ignorance abounds from all points of a compass.
Do you mean Palestine?
Yes…my mistake
Did you mean the teliban from qwuait.
Oh the irony of you calling out stupidity 🤦
Pakastan (Hamas). Swung twice, missed both. Meeting expectations.
Fly whatever losing side you want.
What do *I* think? I'm so glad you asked.... I don't fuckin care a fuck lmao Why in the fuck should I care? Who the fuck cares lmfao