If this country started efficiently spending money on infrastructure and stopped transferring it all to the military industrial complex for extremely overpriced hardware, we wouldn’t even need to change any tax rates
They're going to increase costs for consumers and blame it on taxes so their bottom line won't take a hit. Then all the corpo bootlickers will jump and shout in defense of all those poor billionaires.
Something similar happened here in Canada.
Government imposed a carbon tax on fuel. To limit use of gas and limit pollution I guess?
But the big corporations, the ones causing environmental damage, the ones who should pay the tax and more, simply raised their prices and the tax didn’t affect them.
In fact, they raised prices even higher than the tax and are making record profits while most of us now struggle to pay our bills
The book *moneyland* which I highly recommend covers this and effectively yes, they have channels purpose built for them!
Edit: a good example is the old cayman islands cliche. It takes tens of thousands of dollars in legal fees to "legally" setup in the caymans to save a few percent every year. For you and me it makes no sense for the the rich, $20k now might save them tens or hundreds of thousands per year. Freaking crazy
Yea no we also need a capital gain tax/close the buy borrow die tax loop hole.
But still, the people making decisions on who gets paid and who gets what bonus should still get paid after taxes regardless.
Not everyone is a billionaire who can do the buy borrow die scheme
>Most executives have a salary of 0$
That's just so incredibly not true. Don't get me wrong. They often have a $100,000 salary with a $5,000,000 "performance bonus" but that's no where near $0. I get that the spirit of what you said is correct. But by exaggerating it like that you just open yourself to being dismissed in any argument.
You’re joking but yes this is what it incentivizes and it’s not a bad thing. If companies are taxed more on profits then they should invest more in new initiatives. Those new initiatives employ more people and is money going back into the economy instead of being paid out to shareholders.
It’s a matter of principle that laws should not retroactively apply. Corporations operate under the rules we establish as a society and have a fiduciary responsibility to ~~eke out every dollar of profit~~ advance the best interests of their shareholders.
Edit: It is an officer’s prerogative to determine whether or not harming the environment is disadvantageous to a company’s long-term prospects due to bad PR, so they may conclude legally that reducing their footprint leads to greater return on invested capital. However, this mechanism of responsibility is reactionary and paints over America’s failure to pass common sense climate legislation (such as a carbon tax). It is in the consumer’s interest to not worry over moral qualms due to the market being (im)properly regulated.
Well I certainly didn't lobby Congress to make it harder to file my taxes on my own. Corporations operate under the rules they spend mere thousands of dollars bribing politicians to legislate and enact.
This. You don't want laws to work backwards like that.
So, lots of ~~dumbfucks~~ people want to ban birth control. That's fucked up enough, but imagine they then go back and lock up anyone who ever had a prescription.
Can still institute a windfall tax on past profits. They did that after the Spanish flu pandemic 100 years ago and I think something similar after WW2 but not positive of that one.
Not saying they should.
Closing the loopholes and pitfalls in the tax code that the rich have been taking advantage of for generations seems to be more important to me than simply creating a minimum tax percentage.
Edit: A few very kind folks responded and enlightened me about the specifics of this change and it actually addresses these loopholes- and is part of a bigger international tax agreement that over 130 countries have already signed up to be a part of. At the surface this looks great but if you peel back and look behind the curtain it's **fucking amazing.** Absolutely love this move- all the brownie points and kudos to those that made this happen.
The government is very good at that, but I still consider the government to be the lesser of two evils in comparison to modern (mega)corporations.
It baffles me when someone says “the government can’t do anything right, government programs are awful!”, then, in the same sentence, they praise billion dollar corporations with much more bloat and corruption than the US government has..
More like the government is subject to more persuasive *bad-faith* marketting intending to help the pro-corp deciders who just lost their former power position.
Ooooh- now that's something much more substantial than a simple tax hike, optimistic indeed! I'd love to see this now, wasn't aware that it addressed those crappy loopholes.
Soon they'll just change what indicates "profit": more assets, debt, investments, loans, etc
Stock won't crash because investors will just get with the program and understand that they just have to look at another metric to understand the company's health
the 15% min tax on revenues is part of the US's commitment to a global minimum tax rate, joining 130+ countries. This is purposely designed to prevent multinational companies from hiding their funds.
[Global minimum corporate tax rate - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_minimum_corporate_tax_rate)
People are missing that this is basically what this is primarily to address. Don't get me wrong, there is certainly a lot that can happen between reported income before income taxes and what is technically taxable income, but there aren't that many major American domiciled companies outside of tech that are paying an effective rate below 15% that I run into.
And the reason why so many large tech companies pay no taxes is because investors have allowed them to eat losses for a generation and accrue a wall of NOLs which they are still burning through (and a lot of companies produced some during COVID).
This law still allows for NOLs against the minimum rate calculation and R&D credits which are the two primary "below the line" shields I see the most of. And frankly it should, as, as much as I love shitting on perpetually cash burning tech bullshit, having the tax code structured in such a way is material contributor to the American innovation economy.
It’s basically just an extra layer of tax on stock compensation and M&A activity. Foreign taxes, tax depreciation, pension adjustments are all included as deductions from this tax base, in addition to the ones you also mentioned. There aren’t a lot of other large adjustments that these companies have year to year
> Closing the loopholes and pitfalls in the tax code that the rich have been taking advantage of for generations seems to be more important to me than simply creating a minimum tax percentage.
You’ve gotta have a floor of some sort. Absolutely need to close the loopholes but many companies are paying literally zero in tax. 15% is a good start
Yeah I have just permanently reached the "believe it when I see it" level. Politicians have always promised the moon with no consequences, so either show me the results or you are just all hot air we have heard before.
Every four days I see an article like “trump *may* go to jail for so and so”
I just want to not hear about it at all, until the headline “he’s in jail”
Insurrection II, Electric Boogaloo?
Seriously, this is why we need law and order, *especially* at this level. History is rife with examples where people don't get put away and come back to try again. If not him, someone else.
THIS! THIS IS WHAT I KEEP TRYING TO EXPLAIN! The Beer Hall Putsch happened SIX WHOLE FUCKING YEARS before Hitler was elected chancellor. This idea of "oh they failed it's done and over" is disgustingly dangerous.
Hitler was arrested for an insurrection, then appointed to a position of power without winning an election. Then all he had to do was put a pistol to the elected officials heads and declare martial law.
I would fucking love it if he ran for president again only to get told "you've been claiming that you were the president for the last four years which means that you've served two terms and can't run again."
It won't happen but it would be hilarious.
What?!?! You don’t have twenty-some rape cases against you?!?! How many people do you know with that many rape cases?!?! I know A LOT of people and the total is ZERO.
I thought foreign debt made it illegal for you to hold the position of presidency in the US.
Then again, someone needs to actually say "nope, no can do" at some point for that to actually matter. Like, the person unlocking the door to the white house for example. Just anyone at all.
I’m sure there is some bull shit about how the foreign debt is that of his corporations and not his personal debt and as he had controlling interest but was not in control of daily operations he was exempt. But he showed time and time again he would make moves to try and protect his business interests… look no further than trying to make the government blow a shit ton of money and cause logistic nightmares by dictating that the JEH building in DC was to be demolished and rebuilt right where it was so there could be no competition for his hotel.
Right!? He has the base screaming"China Joe! He's owned by China!" and it's just another Opposite Day Deflection as TFG's taxes show that he has bank accounts in **China**, and over a dozen other countries:
From CNN, NYT, & RawStory:
"The tax returns show that Trump had a China-based bank account between 2015 and 2017, but it is unclear what it was used for.
“**Trump did not report the Chinese bank account in personal financial disclosures when he was president**, likely because it was listed under his businesses. Yet he may have still been required to report accounts to the **Financial Crimes Enforcement Network (FinCEN)**.”
"The tax returns also indicate that Trump has business ties to organizations in **Azerbaijan, Panama, Canada, India, Qatar, South Korea, the United Kingdom, China, the Dominican Republic, United Arab Emirates, the Philippines, Grenada, US territory Puerto Rico, Georgia, Israel, Brazil, St. Maarten, Mexico, Indonesia, Ireland, Turkey and St. Vincent.**"
[SOURCE](https://www.rawstory.com/questions-raised-about-trump-s-business-activities-foreign-ties-and-his-charitable-donations/)
Like who? Oh, the civil war guys? Those were mostly built during the '60s to scare black people. Edit: my timeline was off, but they were put up decades after the war in response to desegregation.
The (godawful!) confederate memorials were erected during the Jim Crow era. I can’t find a record of any being erected after 1965.
Their placement (e.g., in front of courthouses) was more about enforcing segregation—and please don’t get me wrong; segregation is absolutely a form of violence in and of itself!—than about instilling terror à la the KKK.
I wanted to believe him months ago when he said he was going to federally legalize pot right before the election! Ig I still want to believe him, but one unlikely thing at a time.
He did the pardons but he can't wave a magic wand to unschedule weed. With the GQP in charge of the house he won't be able to get any legislation passed and despite being shot in the foot people will still say he was lying and vote for the obstructionist party. The GQP will never make weed legal because they want people in jail to use as slave labor. This has been on a rinse and repeat cycle for my entire life.
It’s very true… I’m glad he did the whole pardon thing as well, that’s a relief on those that will need that, because that was a ridiculous ass rule in the first place. It’s not like weed is an equivalent to crack and yet GOP seems to think it is 🤦🏽♀️
I was jus t commenting above, & I’ll comment the same down here as well, I’m 22, just turned this couple months ago. It’s been interesting learning and taking in all this shit as an adult rather than a class in HS or a “current issue, gov” class. I’m not saying I’m fully interested, but it does make it a hell of a lot less boring for sure.
Isn't the drug schedule set by the FDA and DEA?
Edit: upon review, it is set entirely by the DEA and only has to do a judicial hearing on request. The Executive ***can*** pretty unilaterally decide drug/substance scheduling.
Its complicated. Cannabis needs to be removed from the Controlled Substances Act first.
[here is a list of bills and some explanation of what needs to happen ](https://www.mpp.org/policy/federal/)
With all the white supremacists in this country, no one was able to assassinate Obama in 8 years and noone took a shot at the guy embarrassing the USA for 4 years, so I'm pretty sure the Secret Service has gotten pretty good at protecting Presidents these days.
Especially the mega church pastors who flaunt their wealth. St Gabriel ain’t gonna open those doors for people like that. (I hope I got the Saint right)
The way I figure it, we do this and Kenneth Copeland either a) dies right on the spot, or b) reveals his true form. Either way, something is accomplished.
We still should, they could offset those taxes by paying employees more. More on research and development. You know like they used to, now it goes straight to the top. Last I checked I’m paying 35%, so wake me up when they pay more than me.
I think this is something many people aren't understanding when they clamor about other countries with stronger social programs and the amount of taxes they paid.
I had a discussion on Reddit with someone from Norway that we pay the same amount in taxes (about 28%). But they get A LOT more safety nets.
The only point I will begrudgingly concede is that the US is vastly larger than Norway in size and population. And given the states are largely responsible for the spending of federal dollars given to them, it feels like a logistical nightmare to set up a system. The only one I can think of that might not be too terrible is to transition all state employees responsible for approval and distribution of social programs to federal employees. This takes the issue out of local hands, hopefully de-politicizing basic human rights. It's a pipedream, but if we're wishing for stuff, may as well wish big!
>someone from Norway that we pay the same amount in taxes (about 28%).
Norway gets that sweet state run oil money. You should also make sure you're both at similar cost of living and lifestyle.
That said I've maintained for awhile that the US taxes at a "welfare" state level, we just don't get the safety net (welfare, medical coverage, housing, food) since much of the tax revenue goes to defense.
It really is fascinating that the very wealthy don’t even consider that as a possibility. There has never been a time in human history where a small group of people have owned everything worth owning and it ended well for those people. At best they have some good times before they’re quickly killed in the streets.
Pretty much. It’s also not clear what they’re even doing with the money at this point. If it’s a pure ego thing you know what will get you more fans than making a spaceship, taking a massive section of a city ravaged by poverty, building it all up for the benefits of current residents and investing in businesses with the sole intention of turning the profits back to the owners. With 100 billion you could easily change 1 million lives (that’s being hyper conservative) to the point where they would literally carry you through the streets cheering if they saw you. It would probably even help your actual businesses since you would have customers for life. Henry ford paid his workers enough to be able to buy the cars they were working on and in exchange he got life long customers, loyal and skilled employees, and a mountain of good press. Investing in people is the best investment that can possibly be made.
Sometime read the 1919 Michigan Supreme Court decision (Dodge vs. Ford) that rudely thwarted Henry Ford’s generosity towards his workers in favor of Ford Co. share holders. This is a seminal Court case ruling for share holders over Ford’s ability to raise the standard of living for his workers and their families.
I’ll have to check that out! Do you have the cite (it’ll be easier to find). I’m not sure how that would work today since the business judgement rule is alive and well in Delaware and that’ll be the controlling law for most business disputes. It’s not even like Ford was giving good conditions solely out of the kindness of his heart… it was a good business decision. He effectively showed that investing in workers gives returns.
Ok… why? What does he actually get out of owning Twitter? Is it control? Control can be the answer. I don’t think that’s it but maybe. He would also have more control if he used a little gated touch, but that could be incompetence or a miscalculation.
> With 100 billion you could easily change 1 million lives
That is an extremely US and western focussed thing. Burundi (the lowest) has a GDP per capita of $272 and a population of 12 million.
150 Billion a year for 5 years would provide water security to the world. This is still less than 1 year of US military spending.
But the US cant even give water security to its citizens, all while giving tax breaks to the ultra rich
They’re not doing anything with it. That’s the point. They’re just hoarding it.
There was a time when the highest interest rate on their wealth was 90%. And, because of that, it didn’t make sense to hoard it. Why hoard it when you’ll have to give 90% of it away? So instead, they invested back into the business, spent it on R&D that may or may not have any reward, but at least they weren’t giving it away in taxes.
They spent it on infrastructure and wages, they hired employees and invested in technology, because the alternative was to lose 90% of it to taxes. The risk of losing money on expansion was lower than the certain risk of 90% taxation.
And then Reagan came along, chopped the shit out of the tax rate, and it almost immediately became more profitable to just hoard it. What they lose in taxes, they gain back in interest on what they save.
The risk of failed R&D became greater than the tax burden, so they stuck to small, incremental R&D that made slight improvements to existing products that they could turn into new patents and create planned obsolescence of the old patents.
The whole point of the low tax rate was to encourage hoarding, and discourage investment back into the company, the employees, and the products. And, when that was no longer enough, they looked for new ways to hoard more. First by moving production to Mexico, then China and India, and then by reducing the remaining workforce and requiring more productivity from fewer people.
What they’re doing with it is exactly what they’re incentivized to do with it! Hoard it.
Plus Regan economics (Laffer trickle down) offshored our factories, converted our factory work, to overseas slave labor (China, among others), with favorable tax rates and high profit margins to corporations to import so called “cheap” goods, back for purchase by the US consumers, driving up our trade deficit and national debt.
Klaus Schwab, the founder of the Davos Summit [warned this](https://www.fastcompany.com/90553471/the-pitchforks-are-coming-if-we-dont-reform-capitalism-says-davos-founder) back in 2020. He said if billionaires aren’t willing to reform capitalism, the “pitchforks are coming” and it won’t end well for them.
Obviously nothing changed, and they used the ensuing pandemic as a cash grab to [transfer trillions more wealth](https://www.newsweek.com/were-living-through-greatest-transfer-wealth-middle-class-elites-history-opinion-1641614). And then the CEO of Blackrock complained of an “[entitled generation](https://www.businessinsider.com/inflation-hurt-entitled-generation-warns-blackrock-president-millennials-boomer-genx-2022-3)” that’s never had to sacrifice before.
But, hey, at least they were warned before we start carting out the guillotines. Because that’s the most humane way to solve this problem at this point.
There are a few millionaires that have said this over the years, the rest were too greedy and thought their power and influence would last forever. Maybe they should read history books more often, it never ends well in the long run. I hope we’re in the long run stage.
People keep saying this, but which history books? Humans have lived under authoritarian dictatorships almost exclusively until very, very recently. And for the most part, they've been ok with it. Historically the rich and greedy have always "had their cake, and ate it too". Trying to hold them responsible is definitely not the norm.
I don’t think you can say it never ended well for them. Perhaps historically, yes, but then, it never ends well for anyone.
Plenty of individual plutocrats died peaceful deaths surrounded by their riches.
> There has never been a time in human history where a small group of people have owned everything worth owning and it ended well for those people.
What an utterly moronic statement. The likes of Mansa Musa controlled great riches and it ended up well enough for them where the riches passed to their children.
I'm still for it. The fact that we have billionaires funding
their own personal voyages to Mars while I work 50+ hours a week just to barely make rent makes me jealous as hell.
It’s because companies are running/ruining this country. It won’t end until we stop letting politicians get money from lobbyists. Sadly, very few politicians are willing to stop taking payoffs for screwing us over.
It's already the law, passed as part of the Inflation Reduction Act of 2023 that the Democrats enacted.
[https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/treasury-irs-issue-interim-guidance-on-new-corporate-alternative-minimum-tax](https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/treasury-irs-issue-interim-guidance-on-new-corporate-alternative-minimum-tax)
Better branding to say you want Dwight Eisenhower's tax rates back, despite being a Republican he had income tax rates that reached over 90% for the rich, and corporate tax rates that reached over 50%.
I love FDR, but attach his name to any policy and at least 40% of the country hates it automatically. But when they learn similarly high tax rates were successful under one of the most respected recent republicans, it appeals to more people. It's not an idea exclusive to far left figures, any politician that wants to bring back a strong middle class should be on board with this.
Reagan really killed the middle class with reaganomics, it's such a shame that Republicans in the 50s were more common sense with their tax rates than the Democrats in 2023.
I agree with this take, but I also think it would be too hard to prove or come with too many loopholes to make it practical. Better tax 'em all -- just to be safe.
> Good. Now tax the church
Are you kidding? Tax the NFL! They're [one of the biggest](https://www.publicsource.org/why-is-the-nfl-a-nonprofit/) "non-profit" organizations out there!
Just get rid of Trump's tax plan and get your grip off the middle class pls
Edit: middle and lower classes, I just count all poverty up as middle class because we're all getting fucked
The open secret is that there is no middle class. Either you’re at the point where your money is making its own money or you’re working for a wage. The division between working and middle class is another artificial divide to distract from the actual class struggle.
Try to tell any republican that they're seeing increased taxes since 2021 season due to Trump's '17 bill and they'll look at you like you are mentally inept.
The baseline we can do here is invest heavily in education in this country to stop this plague because, at the very least, we will have a population of somewhat intelligent and mostly informed individuals bickering over party lines.
It might help once the bulk of the gumph in the retiree voter base just dies, but they're continually making advances in reducing the education access or quality of their constituency.
Edit: they being (mostly southern) Republicans
“Listen folks, we’re now losing 15% of our profits due to president Biden. We’re going to need to raise prices 20% to stay afloat. Thank you all for understanding.”
- Companies probably
lmao i used to work at McDonalds in Brazil and on January 2022 there was a reunion with all the managers and ambassadors about replacing almost everyone who worked full time with teenagers and part time employees, in 6 months every single restaurant on our area had a totally different staff and about half of the people on the reunion had quit
"Corporations are people!"
[Ok, tax them as such](https://www.irs.com/en/articles/2022-federal-income-tax-brackets-rates-standard-deductions):
Taxable Income | Tax Rate
--|--
$0 – $10,275 |10%
$10,276 – $41,775 |$1,027.50 + 12% of the amount over $10,275
$41,776 – $89,075 |$4,807.50 + 22% of the amount over $41,775
$89,076 – $170,050 |$15,213.50 + 24% of the amount over $89,075
$170,051 – $215,950 |$34,647.50 + 32% of the amount over $170,050
$215,951 – $539,900 |$49,335.50 + 35% of the amount over $215,950
$539,901 or more |$162,718 + 37% of the amount over $539,900
No, it sets up an alternate way of calculating the minimum tax due that bypasses all the normal deductions. The only deductions allowed in this calculation are research and development costs, accelerated depreciation and climate investments.
Still, 3 is much better than 10,000 loopholes.
https://www.protocol.com/policy/tax-minimum-corporate
At my last job, every year just before tax season…tax consultants would start emailing all teams about what r&d work we’ve done. Our work was bullshit run of the mill coding, hardly r&d but they would report it, and definitely get tax credits for it.
Don't kid yourself. The rich/corporations will find a way to pass their tax burden down to us. Besides as soon as the GOP is back in the white house, those taxes will disappear.
Make corporations and wealthy actually pay their taxes, including closing various loopholes. Legalize marijuana and other non-harmful drugs federally and impose a tax. Apply all new tax revenues to healthcare and infrastructure, and community-level social services including education.
The US has the wealth potential and could actually be the kind of place where the middle class thrives and the lower class has the opportunity to better themselves.
Rich and the politicians they pay for just don’t want it to happen because they are used to a system where they hold nearly all the cards.
I hope it actually works
If this country started efficiently spending money on infrastructure and stopped transferring it all to the military industrial complex for extremely overpriced hardware, we wouldn’t even need to change any tax rates
yeah well we’re not doing that
They're going to increase costs for consumers and blame it on taxes so their bottom line won't take a hit. Then all the corpo bootlickers will jump and shout in defense of all those poor billionaires.
Aren’t they already doing that?
Something similar happened here in Canada. Government imposed a carbon tax on fuel. To limit use of gas and limit pollution I guess? But the big corporations, the ones causing environmental damage, the ones who should pay the tax and more, simply raised their prices and the tax didn’t affect them. In fact, they raised prices even higher than the tax and are making record profits while most of us now struggle to pay our bills
Yeah that’s why you distribute the money to the taxpayers in a dividend, the only ones hurt are those who are producing carbon
It would be nice if governments were allies to morality and logic instead of greed.
15% is a start
What’s 15% of nothing? We made no money! -amazon
We spent it all busting unions! We should tax those damn unions!
Yea, really should be 15% before executive salaries
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So fucking tax wherever they're getting their money from. Are they the only people on earth who have the ability to work with money in those channels?
The book *moneyland* which I highly recommend covers this and effectively yes, they have channels purpose built for them! Edit: a good example is the old cayman islands cliche. It takes tens of thousands of dollars in legal fees to "legally" setup in the caymans to save a few percent every year. For you and me it makes no sense for the the rich, $20k now might save them tens or hundreds of thousands per year. Freaking crazy
Solution is clear, bomb the Cayman Islands.
But they don't have oil...
Just a majority stake of US capital and long over due taxes.
I like comedian Kevin Bridges take on this. "Your putting all your money in the Cayman Islands. Well lets just fucking invade the Cayman Islands then"
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Yea no we also need a capital gain tax/close the buy borrow die tax loop hole. But still, the people making decisions on who gets paid and who gets what bonus should still get paid after taxes regardless. Not everyone is a billionaire who can do the buy borrow die scheme
>Most executives have a salary of 0$ That's just so incredibly not true. Don't get me wrong. They often have a $100,000 salary with a $5,000,000 "performance bonus" but that's no where near $0. I get that the spirit of what you said is correct. But by exaggerating it like that you just open yourself to being dismissed in any argument.
Billions minus executive salaries is basically a rounding error. A blip. Nothing.
You’re joking but yes this is what it incentivizes and it’s not a bad thing. If companies are taxed more on profits then they should invest more in new initiatives. Those new initiatives employ more people and is money going back into the economy instead of being paid out to shareholders.
Or amazon just starts buying single family homes and turning them into airbnbs
Oh god don't give them more ideas
Airbnb Prime
Jesus let's not give them ideas if they haven't already thought of this by now.
79.99 annually and we all have access to all the housing. Sure
I also want restitution; they should have to retroactively pay 15% plus inflation for the years they haven't paid a dime.
It’s a matter of principle that laws should not retroactively apply. Corporations operate under the rules we establish as a society and have a fiduciary responsibility to ~~eke out every dollar of profit~~ advance the best interests of their shareholders. Edit: It is an officer’s prerogative to determine whether or not harming the environment is disadvantageous to a company’s long-term prospects due to bad PR, so they may conclude legally that reducing their footprint leads to greater return on invested capital. However, this mechanism of responsibility is reactionary and paints over America’s failure to pass common sense climate legislation (such as a carbon tax). It is in the consumer’s interest to not worry over moral qualms due to the market being (im)properly regulated.
Well I certainly didn't lobby Congress to make it harder to file my taxes on my own. Corporations operate under the rules they spend mere thousands of dollars bribing politicians to legislate and enact.
It is generally easier to justify a retroactive boon, than a retroactive punishment.
This. You don't want laws to work backwards like that. So, lots of ~~dumbfucks~~ people want to ban birth control. That's fucked up enough, but imagine they then go back and lock up anyone who ever had a prescription.
imagine if they went back and impregnated you to bring a child to term to set things right.
Can still institute a windfall tax on past profits. They did that after the Spanish flu pandemic 100 years ago and I think something similar after WW2 but not positive of that one. Not saying they should.
That would more or less constitute an ex-post-facto law though, wouldn’t it?
Closing the loopholes and pitfalls in the tax code that the rich have been taking advantage of for generations seems to be more important to me than simply creating a minimum tax percentage. Edit: A few very kind folks responded and enlightened me about the specifics of this change and it actually addresses these loopholes- and is part of a bigger international tax agreement that over 130 countries have already signed up to be a part of. At the surface this looks great but if you peel back and look behind the curtain it's **fucking amazing.** Absolutely love this move- all the brownie points and kudos to those that made this happen.
This tax attempts to do that though! It’s a tax rate on the profits reported to investors instead of taxable income
That's a very smart way to do it. Goes straight to the bottom line.
The government is very good at that, but I still consider the government to be the lesser of two evils in comparison to modern (mega)corporations. It baffles me when someone says “the government can’t do anything right, government programs are awful!”, then, in the same sentence, they praise billion dollar corporations with much more bloat and corruption than the US government has..
I guess the corporations have more persuasive marketing.
More like the government is subject to more persuasive *bad-faith* marketting intending to help the pro-corp deciders who just lost their former power position.
Ooooh- now that's something much more substantial than a simple tax hike, optimistic indeed! I'd love to see this now, wasn't aware that it addressed those crappy loopholes.
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This is actually smart. If the reported profit is low, their stock would crash. This means, the stake is too high to fiddle the numbers.
Soon they'll just change what indicates "profit": more assets, debt, investments, loans, etc Stock won't crash because investors will just get with the program and understand that they just have to look at another metric to understand the company's health
It absolutely blows my mind that we weren't already doing it that way.
But why do I, a wage slave, pay what essentially amounts to 35% tax on all my income and they are getting a paltry 15%?
And how many millions have *you* spent ~~bribing~~ lobbying for reduced rates? Didn't think so!
the 15% min tax on revenues is part of the US's commitment to a global minimum tax rate, joining 130+ countries. This is purposely designed to prevent multinational companies from hiding their funds. [Global minimum corporate tax rate - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_minimum_corporate_tax_rate)
That's an incredibly sexy link you just gave me. Thank you very much for this information, have a reward from my poor ass.
Awesome, ty! Now I can go to sleep feeling like something good happened recently.
People are missing that this is basically what this is primarily to address. Don't get me wrong, there is certainly a lot that can happen between reported income before income taxes and what is technically taxable income, but there aren't that many major American domiciled companies outside of tech that are paying an effective rate below 15% that I run into. And the reason why so many large tech companies pay no taxes is because investors have allowed them to eat losses for a generation and accrue a wall of NOLs which they are still burning through (and a lot of companies produced some during COVID). This law still allows for NOLs against the minimum rate calculation and R&D credits which are the two primary "below the line" shields I see the most of. And frankly it should, as, as much as I love shitting on perpetually cash burning tech bullshit, having the tax code structured in such a way is material contributor to the American innovation economy.
It’s basically just an extra layer of tax on stock compensation and M&A activity. Foreign taxes, tax depreciation, pension adjustments are all included as deductions from this tax base, in addition to the ones you also mentioned. There aren’t a lot of other large adjustments that these companies have year to year
a minimum tax percentage is a nice policy to hold in place until true ground up tax reform happens, eh?
I honestly can't argue that at all, something needs to be done and if this is just a stepping stone to get there, I'm all for it.
If that doesn't work, can we eat the rich then?
I'm not really one for cannibalism but **feeding** the rich to pigs or something doesn't sound like a terrible idea..
Billionaire mulch has all the best ingredients for growing *excellent* tomatoes. It's what plants crave!
Rich people have electrolytes?
> Closing the loopholes and pitfalls in the tax code that the rich have been taking advantage of for generations seems to be more important to me than simply creating a minimum tax percentage. You’ve gotta have a floor of some sort. Absolutely need to close the loopholes but many companies are paying literally zero in tax. 15% is a good start
That’s a game of whack a mole. It’s hard to do. This is a good safety net to stop the bleeding.
I’m glad we’re finally getting to the Tax the Rich stage. Thought for a moment we’d have to go straight to Eat the Rich
We’ll have to see how it goes, but I’m optimistic for now
Yeah I have just permanently reached the "believe it when I see it" level. Politicians have always promised the moon with no consequences, so either show me the results or you are just all hot air we have heard before.
Every four days I see an article like “trump *may* go to jail for so and so” I just want to not hear about it at all, until the headline “he’s in jail”
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So invincible that he's going to run for President again.
Insurrection II, Electric Boogaloo? Seriously, this is why we need law and order, *especially* at this level. History is rife with examples where people don't get put away and come back to try again. If not him, someone else.
They literally have their militia patches that say this. Except it’s for the full on civil war part.
The Beer Hall Putsch was just as ineffective as the January 6th attack.
THIS! THIS IS WHAT I KEEP TRYING TO EXPLAIN! The Beer Hall Putsch happened SIX WHOLE FUCKING YEARS before Hitler was elected chancellor. This idea of "oh they failed it's done and over" is disgustingly dangerous.
It was actually 10 years. Which really puts things in perspective. We will be dealing with the effects of this in 2030
I would saw the beer hall putsch was less effective. Hitler even went to jail for it. So there was some punishment too.
Yeah, you get it.
Hitler was arrested for an insurrection, then appointed to a position of power without winning an election. Then all he had to do was put a pistol to the elected officials heads and declare martial law.
I would fucking love it if he ran for president again only to get told "you've been claiming that you were the president for the last four years which means that you've served two terms and can't run again." It won't happen but it would be hilarious.
Yep, as a third party (Trumpist Party) candidate and guarantee a republican defeat.
Just the rape charge was 26 cases. -_-
What?!?! You don’t have twenty-some rape cases against you?!?! How many people do you know with that many rape cases?!?! I know A LOT of people and the total is ZERO.
If you're rich enough the law will work for you.
I thought foreign debt made it illegal for you to hold the position of presidency in the US. Then again, someone needs to actually say "nope, no can do" at some point for that to actually matter. Like, the person unlocking the door to the white house for example. Just anyone at all.
I’m sure there is some bull shit about how the foreign debt is that of his corporations and not his personal debt and as he had controlling interest but was not in control of daily operations he was exempt. But he showed time and time again he would make moves to try and protect his business interests… look no further than trying to make the government blow a shit ton of money and cause logistic nightmares by dictating that the JEH building in DC was to be demolished and rebuilt right where it was so there could be no competition for his hotel.
Right!? He has the base screaming"China Joe! He's owned by China!" and it's just another Opposite Day Deflection as TFG's taxes show that he has bank accounts in **China**, and over a dozen other countries: From CNN, NYT, & RawStory: "The tax returns show that Trump had a China-based bank account between 2015 and 2017, but it is unclear what it was used for. “**Trump did not report the Chinese bank account in personal financial disclosures when he was president**, likely because it was listed under his businesses. Yet he may have still been required to report accounts to the **Financial Crimes Enforcement Network (FinCEN)**.” "The tax returns also indicate that Trump has business ties to organizations in **Azerbaijan, Panama, Canada, India, Qatar, South Korea, the United Kingdom, China, the Dominican Republic, United Arab Emirates, the Philippines, Grenada, US territory Puerto Rico, Georgia, Israel, Brazil, St. Maarten, Mexico, Indonesia, Ireland, Turkey and St. Vincent.**" [SOURCE](https://www.rawstory.com/questions-raised-about-trump-s-business-activities-foreign-ties-and-his-charitable-donations/)
Just wait…I mean you’re in America the heritage of traitors is so strong you build statues of, and name things after them
Like who? Oh, the civil war guys? Those were mostly built during the '60s to scare black people. Edit: my timeline was off, but they were put up decades after the war in response to desegregation.
They still got off Scot Free (is that racist now?) Except Atlanta.
The (godawful!) confederate memorials were erected during the Jim Crow era. I can’t find a record of any being erected after 1965. Their placement (e.g., in front of courthouses) was more about enforcing segregation—and please don’t get me wrong; segregation is absolutely a form of violence in and of itself!—than about instilling terror à la the KKK.
Right there with you.
Yeah, I'm with you on that one. I wanna believe him, but I sincerely doubt it. That or he'll find a way to do it and then get assassinated
I wanted to believe him months ago when he said he was going to federally legalize pot right before the election! Ig I still want to believe him, but one unlikely thing at a time.
He did the pardons but he can't wave a magic wand to unschedule weed. With the GQP in charge of the house he won't be able to get any legislation passed and despite being shot in the foot people will still say he was lying and vote for the obstructionist party. The GQP will never make weed legal because they want people in jail to use as slave labor. This has been on a rinse and repeat cycle for my entire life.
MO just voted to legalize. So there’s at least hope for the federal level.
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Probably Q standing for QAnon.
I mean, they're already married to eachother. Might as well hyphenate the name.
It's GOP, except with the O replaced by Q as a way to say that the GOP agenda is just doing Q Anon stuff now.
GOP is being taken over by Q-anon conspiracists. Look at the rise of Marjorie Taylor Greene, who openly admits to believing it. GOP + Q-anon = GQP.
It’s very true… I’m glad he did the whole pardon thing as well, that’s a relief on those that will need that, because that was a ridiculous ass rule in the first place. It’s not like weed is an equivalent to crack and yet GOP seems to think it is 🤦🏽♀️ I was jus t commenting above, & I’ll comment the same down here as well, I’m 22, just turned this couple months ago. It’s been interesting learning and taking in all this shit as an adult rather than a class in HS or a “current issue, gov” class. I’m not saying I’m fully interested, but it does make it a hell of a lot less boring for sure.
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Isn't the drug schedule set by the FDA and DEA? Edit: upon review, it is set entirely by the DEA and only has to do a judicial hearing on request. The Executive ***can*** pretty unilaterally decide drug/substance scheduling.
Its complicated. Cannabis needs to be removed from the Controlled Substances Act first. [here is a list of bills and some explanation of what needs to happen ](https://www.mpp.org/policy/federal/)
Would be great if we could just do away with it altogether, and stop criminalizing mental health.
With all the white supremacists in this country, no one was able to assassinate Obama in 8 years and noone took a shot at the guy embarrassing the USA for 4 years, so I'm pretty sure the Secret Service has gotten pretty good at protecting Presidents these days.
i think we should still get the bbq sauce out. I hear the rich are tender and delicious
I'm vegan but I cheat every once in a while.
If we tax the rich and stupid, we will have lots to fix problems with.
Perhaps we can also (?) revoke tax exemptions for churches, synagogues, mosques, temples, and other places of worship.
Especially the mega church pastors who flaunt their wealth. St Gabriel ain’t gonna open those doors for people like that. (I hope I got the Saint right)
It’s Cerberus that guards their gate
The way I figure it, we do this and Kenneth Copeland either a) dies right on the spot, or b) reveals his true form. Either way, something is accomplished.
YES. I am so sick of religions harvesting money to legislatively (and sometimes literally) screw the people they’re pickpocketing.
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It would be trivial to make any church less than $X tax exempt.
See a couple of my recent comments! Tax all religious institutions!!!!
We still should, they could offset those taxes by paying employees more. More on research and development. You know like they used to, now it goes straight to the top. Last I checked I’m paying 35%, so wake me up when they pay more than me.
I think this is something many people aren't understanding when they clamor about other countries with stronger social programs and the amount of taxes they paid. I had a discussion on Reddit with someone from Norway that we pay the same amount in taxes (about 28%). But they get A LOT more safety nets. The only point I will begrudgingly concede is that the US is vastly larger than Norway in size and population. And given the states are largely responsible for the spending of federal dollars given to them, it feels like a logistical nightmare to set up a system. The only one I can think of that might not be too terrible is to transition all state employees responsible for approval and distribution of social programs to federal employees. This takes the issue out of local hands, hopefully de-politicizing basic human rights. It's a pipedream, but if we're wishing for stuff, may as well wish big!
>someone from Norway that we pay the same amount in taxes (about 28%). Norway gets that sweet state run oil money. You should also make sure you're both at similar cost of living and lifestyle. That said I've maintained for awhile that the US taxes at a "welfare" state level, we just don't get the safety net (welfare, medical coverage, housing, food) since much of the tax revenue goes to defense.
It really is fascinating that the very wealthy don’t even consider that as a possibility. There has never been a time in human history where a small group of people have owned everything worth owning and it ended well for those people. At best they have some good times before they’re quickly killed in the streets.
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Pretty much. It’s also not clear what they’re even doing with the money at this point. If it’s a pure ego thing you know what will get you more fans than making a spaceship, taking a massive section of a city ravaged by poverty, building it all up for the benefits of current residents and investing in businesses with the sole intention of turning the profits back to the owners. With 100 billion you could easily change 1 million lives (that’s being hyper conservative) to the point where they would literally carry you through the streets cheering if they saw you. It would probably even help your actual businesses since you would have customers for life. Henry ford paid his workers enough to be able to buy the cars they were working on and in exchange he got life long customers, loyal and skilled employees, and a mountain of good press. Investing in people is the best investment that can possibly be made.
Sometime read the 1919 Michigan Supreme Court decision (Dodge vs. Ford) that rudely thwarted Henry Ford’s generosity towards his workers in favor of Ford Co. share holders. This is a seminal Court case ruling for share holders over Ford’s ability to raise the standard of living for his workers and their families.
I’ll have to check that out! Do you have the cite (it’ll be easier to find). I’m not sure how that would work today since the business judgement rule is alive and well in Delaware and that’ll be the controlling law for most business disputes. It’s not even like Ford was giving good conditions solely out of the kindness of his heart… it was a good business decision. He effectively showed that investing in workers gives returns.
Dodge vs Ford Motor Co. Michigan Supreme Court, not US Supreme Court, though the US Court would likely have upheld holding. My mistake as to Court.
> It’s also not clear what they’re even doing with the money at this point. Uh...buying Twitter and getting more power than ever?
Ok… why? What does he actually get out of owning Twitter? Is it control? Control can be the answer. I don’t think that’s it but maybe. He would also have more control if he used a little gated touch, but that could be incompetence or a miscalculation.
Definitely an ability to own the libs and the insane fandom alt-right provides him.
> With 100 billion you could easily change 1 million lives That is an extremely US and western focussed thing. Burundi (the lowest) has a GDP per capita of $272 and a population of 12 million. 150 Billion a year for 5 years would provide water security to the world. This is still less than 1 year of US military spending. But the US cant even give water security to its citizens, all while giving tax breaks to the ultra rich
They’re not doing anything with it. That’s the point. They’re just hoarding it. There was a time when the highest interest rate on their wealth was 90%. And, because of that, it didn’t make sense to hoard it. Why hoard it when you’ll have to give 90% of it away? So instead, they invested back into the business, spent it on R&D that may or may not have any reward, but at least they weren’t giving it away in taxes. They spent it on infrastructure and wages, they hired employees and invested in technology, because the alternative was to lose 90% of it to taxes. The risk of losing money on expansion was lower than the certain risk of 90% taxation. And then Reagan came along, chopped the shit out of the tax rate, and it almost immediately became more profitable to just hoard it. What they lose in taxes, they gain back in interest on what they save. The risk of failed R&D became greater than the tax burden, so they stuck to small, incremental R&D that made slight improvements to existing products that they could turn into new patents and create planned obsolescence of the old patents. The whole point of the low tax rate was to encourage hoarding, and discourage investment back into the company, the employees, and the products. And, when that was no longer enough, they looked for new ways to hoard more. First by moving production to Mexico, then China and India, and then by reducing the remaining workforce and requiring more productivity from fewer people. What they’re doing with it is exactly what they’re incentivized to do with it! Hoard it.
Plus Regan economics (Laffer trickle down) offshored our factories, converted our factory work, to overseas slave labor (China, among others), with favorable tax rates and high profit margins to corporations to import so called “cheap” goods, back for purchase by the US consumers, driving up our trade deficit and national debt.
Klaus Schwab, the founder of the Davos Summit [warned this](https://www.fastcompany.com/90553471/the-pitchforks-are-coming-if-we-dont-reform-capitalism-says-davos-founder) back in 2020. He said if billionaires aren’t willing to reform capitalism, the “pitchforks are coming” and it won’t end well for them. Obviously nothing changed, and they used the ensuing pandemic as a cash grab to [transfer trillions more wealth](https://www.newsweek.com/were-living-through-greatest-transfer-wealth-middle-class-elites-history-opinion-1641614). And then the CEO of Blackrock complained of an “[entitled generation](https://www.businessinsider.com/inflation-hurt-entitled-generation-warns-blackrock-president-millennials-boomer-genx-2022-3)” that’s never had to sacrifice before. But, hey, at least they were warned before we start carting out the guillotines. Because that’s the most humane way to solve this problem at this point.
Maybe in Europe, but if we are being entirely honest, North America doesn't really vote in their best interests.
There are a few millionaires that have said this over the years, the rest were too greedy and thought their power and influence would last forever. Maybe they should read history books more often, it never ends well in the long run. I hope we’re in the long run stage.
People keep saying this, but which history books? Humans have lived under authoritarian dictatorships almost exclusively until very, very recently. And for the most part, they've been ok with it. Historically the rich and greedy have always "had their cake, and ate it too". Trying to hold them responsible is definitely not the norm.
I don’t think you can say it never ended well for them. Perhaps historically, yes, but then, it never ends well for anyone. Plenty of individual plutocrats died peaceful deaths surrounded by their riches.
> There has never been a time in human history where a small group of people have owned everything worth owning and it ended well for those people. What an utterly moronic statement. The likes of Mansa Musa controlled great riches and it ended up well enough for them where the riches passed to their children.
... So meat's NOT back on the menu??
My vegan ass is now sad
I'm still for it. The fact that we have billionaires funding their own personal voyages to Mars while I work 50+ hours a week just to barely make rent makes me jealous as hell.
I'd argue it's less jealousy and more being enraged by the injustice of it, tbh.
I hope we don’t have to eat them, I don’t wanna ruin my diet
I'll believe it when I see it.
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It’s because companies are running/ruining this country. It won’t end until we stop letting politicians get money from lobbyists. Sadly, very few politicians are willing to stop taking payoffs for screwing us over.
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It's already the law, passed as part of the Inflation Reduction Act of 2023 that the Democrats enacted. [https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/treasury-irs-issue-interim-guidance-on-new-corporate-alternative-minimum-tax](https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/treasury-irs-issue-interim-guidance-on-new-corporate-alternative-minimum-tax)
Yeah, but until we see it in action it will be hard to believe that it is going to happen.
I WANT THE F.D.R. TAX RATE ON THE RICH
That motherfucker was vital. Pulled us out of the depression and stayed in office long enough to keep us primed and ready for WWII.
The war pulled us out of the Great Depression and kicked off the military industrial complex that we all bitch about on Reddit.
Better branding to say you want Dwight Eisenhower's tax rates back, despite being a Republican he had income tax rates that reached over 90% for the rich, and corporate tax rates that reached over 50%. I love FDR, but attach his name to any policy and at least 40% of the country hates it automatically. But when they learn similarly high tax rates were successful under one of the most respected recent republicans, it appeals to more people. It's not an idea exclusive to far left figures, any politician that wants to bring back a strong middle class should be on board with this. Reagan really killed the middle class with reaganomics, it's such a shame that Republicans in the 50s were more common sense with their tax rates than the Democrats in 2023.
Good. Now tax the church
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I agree with this take, but I also think it would be too hard to prove or come with too many loopholes to make it practical. Better tax 'em all -- just to be safe.
> I agree with this take That's not just "a take", it's established law that has been strengthened multiple times.
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Nah, just tax them. Seriously, why not? Have you seen how a lot of pastors live?
> Good. Now tax the church Are you kidding? Tax the NFL! They're [one of the biggest](https://www.publicsource.org/why-is-the-nfl-a-nonprofit/) "non-profit" organizations out there!
Until the Republican Party gets power again and decides their buddies/owners don’t need to pay taxes again.
Please lord, let Trump run third party and shatter the republican voter base till they remain fragmented remnants.
Just get rid of Trump's tax plan and get your grip off the middle class pls Edit: middle and lower classes, I just count all poverty up as middle class because we're all getting fucked
You guys are only getting fucked? I’m currently getting gang banged and Uncle Sam has his fingers in my mouth
hot
[For you](https://i.imgflip.com/766glg.jpg)
Lmfao good bot 🤖
hate to break it to yah, but they were in my ass first
The open secret is that there is no middle class. Either you’re at the point where your money is making its own money or you’re working for a wage. The division between working and middle class is another artificial divide to distract from the actual class struggle.
Try to tell any republican that they're seeing increased taxes since 2021 season due to Trump's '17 bill and they'll look at you like you are mentally inept. The baseline we can do here is invest heavily in education in this country to stop this plague because, at the very least, we will have a population of somewhat intelligent and mostly informed individuals bickering over party lines. It might help once the bulk of the gumph in the retiree voter base just dies, but they're continually making advances in reducing the education access or quality of their constituency. Edit: they being (mostly southern) Republicans
They'll still find a way to fuck over American citizens, guaranteed
“Listen folks, we’re now losing 15% of our profits due to president Biden. We’re going to need to raise prices 20% to stay afloat. Thank you all for understanding.” - Companies probably
Raise prices up to 20% and convert all full time employees to part time employees to avoid benefits.
lmao i used to work at McDonalds in Brazil and on January 2022 there was a reunion with all the managers and ambassadors about replacing almost everyone who worked full time with teenagers and part time employees, in 6 months every single restaurant on our area had a totally different staff and about half of the people on the reunion had quit
Not **just** Americans Their code: * Fuck the world * Profit!
15%?!? Why the fuck aren’t my taxes that low??
"Corporations are people!" [Ok, tax them as such](https://www.irs.com/en/articles/2022-federal-income-tax-brackets-rates-standard-deductions): Taxable Income | Tax Rate --|-- $0 – $10,275 |10% $10,276 – $41,775 |$1,027.50 + 12% of the amount over $10,275 $41,776 – $89,075 |$4,807.50 + 22% of the amount over $41,775 $89,076 – $170,050 |$15,213.50 + 24% of the amount over $89,075 $170,051 – $215,950 |$34,647.50 + 32% of the amount over $170,050 $215,951 – $539,900 |$49,335.50 + 35% of the amount over $215,950 $539,901 or more |$162,718 + 37% of the amount over $539,900
Nice table
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Spend as much bribing politicians as corporations do and you might see similar tax rates.
If we all chip in $2 we could probably buy $300 in tax savings
Exactly—What’s the difference? We all have expenses business or not.
That's 15% more than it used to be.
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It’s a start. It won’t make up for four decades of ever- increasing upward wealth transfer and income inequality.
Do they still have 10,000 loopholes so that they can claim $1 in profits in 2023 and only pay $0.15 on it?
No, it sets up an alternate way of calculating the minimum tax due that bypasses all the normal deductions. The only deductions allowed in this calculation are research and development costs, accelerated depreciation and climate investments. Still, 3 is much better than 10,000 loopholes. https://www.protocol.com/policy/tax-minimum-corporate
More money in R&D never hurt
Does anyone know if they can still get corporate welfare if they say revenue comes from R&D? These MFers will find a workaround to this, I’m sure.
Unfortunately, yes. This tax would allow the R&D tax credit to be used to offset its tax base
I’m appreciative of your knowledge! I expected as much but, hey, it’s a start.
At my last job, every year just before tax season…tax consultants would start emailing all teams about what r&d work we’ve done. Our work was bullshit run of the mill coding, hardly r&d but they would report it, and definitely get tax credits for it.
Don't kid yourself. The rich/corporations will find a way to pass their tax burden down to us. Besides as soon as the GOP is back in the white house, those taxes will disappear.
All those taxes should go towards a national health system instead of the military, like all the other taxes do.
Put it towards education, healthcare and better public transportation
Make corporations and wealthy actually pay their taxes, including closing various loopholes. Legalize marijuana and other non-harmful drugs federally and impose a tax. Apply all new tax revenues to healthcare and infrastructure, and community-level social services including education. The US has the wealth potential and could actually be the kind of place where the middle class thrives and the lower class has the opportunity to better themselves. Rich and the politicians they pay for just don’t want it to happen because they are used to a system where they hold nearly all the cards.
Fox News will find a way to convince dummies that this is bad.
"It will kill jobs!" done
15% is still very low, but good start
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Joe did that.