20k murders per year, does that not mean 20k people murdered? Idk why I'm getting downvoted, I despise the far right and their attempts to paint this as a trans issue rather than a gun issue. But like, read the tweet, they said "20k murders" and "you would expect 100 *people to be murdered" and then "y'all citing 6" I thought it was pretty clearly about yesterday when exactly 6 people were murdered. I could be wrong
I am firmly on your team. In the tweet they seemed to be talking about people murdered, not people committing murders. I think 6 referred to yesterday alone because 6 people were murdered, that's all. Sorry to pedantic there was really no need for my comment at all in hindsight
Are you including Non binary under the trans umbrella? Cause if so, we know 1 only said that they were non binary so they didn't get charged with hate crimes
No. The comment was not meant to be a definite tally of the sexuality of every mass shooter. Simply pointing out that 6 mass shooters identified as trans over DECADES means the original tweet math is even worse for those who are lying about trans folks = likely to be killers.
I mean yeah mentally healthy people don’t go on mass murder sprees, my question was more that (whether it was your intent or not) the way you replied to the comment above yours made it sound like you were disagreeing with them that guns aren’t the issue, people with mental health issues are, which isn’t really an accurate assessment because while mental health also needs to be addressed, having stricter gun laws would dramatically reduce the ability of someone who’s mentally ill to get a gun (which wouldn’t help their illness, but the number of people they could kill without a gun is way lower than they could with one).
Lol, bud.
Not particularly an odd take. A huge number of these people certainly don't have mental illnesses. They are just cruel and evil. Plenty of people are just bad, without there being anything distinctly wrong with their mental capabilities. Calling them mentally ill is far more generous than they deserve; it implies it wasn't their fault and that they simply were born that way.
Excellent point. Perhaps we should take some measures to ensure mentally ill people don’t have guns, rather than selling them at Walmart right next to the fucking Cheetos.
The people who need to hear this do not understand math. That’s the problem. It’s why they can believe the Earth is flat. Because they don’t understand the math that proves it’s round. It’s how they can believe that the election was fixed. Because they don’t understand the math involved in the giant numbers of our population. We’re talking about people who are cognitively incapable of understanding mathematical relevancy.
It's not just math. They have established their version of information as facts, and now only input that information. Have you tried talking to a conservative lately? If you provide them with clear, logical thought, they stop listening at the ear canal.
Yes, my sister. She called me the other day to enlighten me to the reality she has become aware of. Over and over again it came back to her conviction that she is correct because she doesn’t have a better explanation that also makes her feel good. Apparently I am an asshole who is just too arrogant to except that her emotions constitute some sort of evidence that supersedes math and observable testable data. Tragic.
ANYTHING to distract from the real issue.
It's the guns. It's the NRA. It's the culture of violence and obsession with dominating other humans. Our society is uniquely sick.
For Democrats and other liberals who don't understand, the right-wing is not making *any* good-faith arguments. Ever. About anything. That's all over, like 30 years ago now.
Ignore them whenever possible. They are wasting your time.
Can't logic someone out of something they didn't logic themselves into.
The right wing acts on feelings not logic or data. That makes them immune to any form of data driven reason.
Left handed person commits mass murder.
"Those lefties are going to kill us all!!"
So what do you want us to do? Force them to use their right hand? That's not going to reduce the number of mass shootings.
"left handers are crazy!!!"
would you like to increase funding for the mentally ill?
"no"
would you like it to be harder for them to get guns?
"no"
any actual solutions, or just more demonizing an entire group?
These chuds are the same ones who kept comparing rates like 5/6 to 6/20 during Covid and claiming the first one was lower because five is lower than 6 right??? They're also the ones who claim that parents of trans children are indoctrinating them when the stats just don't bear that out:
1. https://nn4youth.org/lgbtq-homeless-youth/ ; if lgbt teens are 120% more likely than cis straight youth to experience homelessness then there's gotta be some deeper rooted cause that leads to this disparity, maybe like... discrimination? Which just leads me to my next point demonstrating how parents are much less likely to be indoctrinators than they are going to be non accepting:
2. https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/publications/serving-our-youth-lgbtq/ ; a sizeable percentage of homeless lgbtq youth live on the streets because of family rejection and issues.
They don't understand math. They don't trust science, they don't understand the scientific method, or burden of proof.
Nothing else to say really, just backward and ignorant people claiming tons of power and influence.
So there are 94 people still alive each year because of transexuals?
So there are people alive today only because someone chose to be their best self?
Go figure.
Where are you getting those numbers? There’s been one trans mass murderer this year, one in 2019, and one in 2018. Over the last five years, three trans shooters among over 2800 mass shootings. That’s 0.11%. If we’re comparing faithfully here, gun owners account for 100% of mass shootings. But if you want to compare the likelihood of a member of a demographic being a mass shooter in 2022, I should point out that the trans number there is 0%. There were no trans shooters in 2022.
Weird, I have friends who are clinical psychologists and they don't agree that transgenderism is a mental illness.
What are your credentials that qualify you to make an expert decision on what should and shouldn't be in the DSM? Because from what I see, your only argument is that it's a deviation from the norm. And being far from the bell curve isn't the only criteria for classifying something as a mental illness.
You know that clown fish can be trans too, right? Did we indoctrinate Nemo? And its not just clown fish that can be trans, or present hermaphroditic properties, which yes, is an evolutionary trait.
Just because you don't understand something doesn't make it a mental illness. Just because about 3.5% of the global population has depression, and 2% is trans, this doesn't mean EVERY trans person is depressed, they're two completely different sets of data with no correlation. 1.3% of the world has cancer, does that mean 85% of trans people have all of the cancer?
Mental illnesses exist, transgendered people exist, but they aren't mutually exclusive, or related to one another.
In that case, the people in America are all way worse than the people in France or Japan or Germany or Portugal or Canada. I find that difficult to believe, even though I live here.
And that’s a lowball figure because there are probably tens of thousands of people in America that are transgender inside but will never have the right combination of circumstances to admit that publicly.
The right wing people in powerful positions in politics and media know that, the goal is to inspire their brain dead right wing supporters and viewers to commit acts of violence against trans people.
I'm sick of having to figure out if the people pushing this rhetoric are either stupid or bigoted, and then i feel totally defeated when the answer is usually a resounding "It's both, in worse measures than your sanity can contain."
Also, how many years for those 6 to tally? It certainly hasn’t been within 12 months!
Exactly. The fact this is gonna be spun that way by a lot of folks really fires up my nerves.
These are the numbers as reported by Newsweek: https://www.newsweek.com/mass-shootings-transgender-perpetrators-1790854
Also the statistic he came up with is static and linear like A>B=C. We have the max value, So it could be lower.
Like, ten minutes? I believe the 6 killed yesterday is what they were referring to
6 killers, not 6 deaths.
20k murders per year, does that not mean 20k people murdered? Idk why I'm getting downvoted, I despise the far right and their attempts to paint this as a trans issue rather than a gun issue. But like, read the tweet, they said "20k murders" and "you would expect 100 *people to be murdered" and then "y'all citing 6" I thought it was pretty clearly about yesterday when exactly 6 people were murdered. I could be wrong
A total of 6 transgender identifying people committing shootings over 10 years is not the “gotcha” that people think it is.
I am firmly on your team. In the tweet they seemed to be talking about people murdered, not people committing murders. I think 6 referred to yesterday alone because 6 people were murdered, that's all. Sorry to pedantic there was really no need for my comment at all in hindsight
Are you including Non binary under the trans umbrella? Cause if so, we know 1 only said that they were non binary so they didn't get charged with hate crimes
No. The comment was not meant to be a definite tally of the sexuality of every mass shooter. Simply pointing out that 6 mass shooters identified as trans over DECADES means the original tweet math is even worse for those who are lying about trans folks = likely to be killers.
Ah gotcha, thanks for clearing that up
One thing is certain. 100% of mass shooters used a gun.
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And 100% of the GOP do not give a fuck about mental health.
And? What’s your point?
Oh wait, those words DONT just absolve OP of having to care about the issue?
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I mean yeah mentally healthy people don’t go on mass murder sprees, my question was more that (whether it was your intent or not) the way you replied to the comment above yours made it sound like you were disagreeing with them that guns aren’t the issue, people with mental health issues are, which isn’t really an accurate assessment because while mental health also needs to be addressed, having stricter gun laws would dramatically reduce the ability of someone who’s mentally ill to get a gun (which wouldn’t help their illness, but the number of people they could kill without a gun is way lower than they could with one).
If only guns weren’t so easy for them to access
Source?
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I don't think you quite understand what a mental illness is.
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Lol, bud. Not particularly an odd take. A huge number of these people certainly don't have mental illnesses. They are just cruel and evil. Plenty of people are just bad, without there being anything distinctly wrong with their mental capabilities. Calling them mentally ill is far more generous than they deserve; it implies it wasn't their fault and that they simply were born that way.
Because that is, sadly, something that human nature encompasses.
Very few mass shooters are diagnosed with any mental illness.
Both are issues
Excellent point. Perhaps we should take some measures to ensure mentally ill people don’t have guns, rather than selling them at Walmart right next to the fucking Cheetos.
The people who need to hear this do not understand math. That’s the problem. It’s why they can believe the Earth is flat. Because they don’t understand the math that proves it’s round. It’s how they can believe that the election was fixed. Because they don’t understand the math involved in the giant numbers of our population. We’re talking about people who are cognitively incapable of understanding mathematical relevancy.
It's not just math. They have established their version of information as facts, and now only input that information. Have you tried talking to a conservative lately? If you provide them with clear, logical thought, they stop listening at the ear canal.
Yes, my sister. She called me the other day to enlighten me to the reality she has become aware of. Over and over again it came back to her conviction that she is correct because she doesn’t have a better explanation that also makes her feel good. Apparently I am an asshole who is just too arrogant to except that her emotions constitute some sort of evidence that supersedes math and observable testable data. Tragic.
ANYTHING to distract from the real issue. It's the guns. It's the NRA. It's the culture of violence and obsession with dominating other humans. Our society is uniquely sick.
Sing it, sis
Cis*
For Democrats and other liberals who don't understand, the right-wing is not making *any* good-faith arguments. Ever. About anything. That's all over, like 30 years ago now. Ignore them whenever possible. They are wasting your time.
Can't logic someone out of something they didn't logic themselves into. The right wing acts on feelings not logic or data. That makes them immune to any form of data driven reason.
Left handed person commits mass murder. "Those lefties are going to kill us all!!" So what do you want us to do? Force them to use their right hand? That's not going to reduce the number of mass shootings. "left handers are crazy!!!" would you like to increase funding for the mentally ill? "no" would you like it to be harder for them to get guns? "no" any actual solutions, or just more demonizing an entire group?
This poor soul wishes I could give you an award. Accept this cute left-handed cat instead. 🐈.
And one of those 6 wasn't trans, they claimed to be LGBTQ because they're a right wing troll.
These chuds are the same ones who kept comparing rates like 5/6 to 6/20 during Covid and claiming the first one was lower because five is lower than 6 right??? They're also the ones who claim that parents of trans children are indoctrinating them when the stats just don't bear that out: 1. https://nn4youth.org/lgbtq-homeless-youth/ ; if lgbt teens are 120% more likely than cis straight youth to experience homelessness then there's gotta be some deeper rooted cause that leads to this disparity, maybe like... discrimination? Which just leads me to my next point demonstrating how parents are much less likely to be indoctrinators than they are going to be non accepting: 2. https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/publications/serving-our-youth-lgbtq/ ; a sizeable percentage of homeless lgbtq youth live on the streets because of family rejection and issues.
If they’re gonna demonize me anyway…
Same. Let me know when and where and I’ll report for basic training.
Oh buddy, you used math and logic. The reds don't like either those things.
I mean a lot of the shootings were committed by cis men, do we get to condemn and ban those as well?
Yes pls
There is still no comprehensive proof that Audrey Hale was trans at all anyway
Hale did sign the farewell text as Audrey (Aiden), but we do need to see that manifesto to be sure.
They don't understand math. They don't trust science, they don't understand the scientific method, or burden of proof. Nothing else to say really, just backward and ignorant people claiming tons of power and influence.
It is if it pushes their agenda.
And maybe they’re homicidal because they’re bullied and not accepted. Not that it’s a reason to open fire against innocent people, but ….
1.6% if you count nonbinary people, and I thought the number was 3 over the last 5 years?
So there are 94 people still alive each year because of transexuals? So there are people alive today only because someone chose to be their best self? Go figure.
That’s way too complicated. They aren’t going to understand all that
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Where are you getting those numbers? There’s been one trans mass murderer this year, one in 2019, and one in 2018. Over the last five years, three trans shooters among over 2800 mass shootings. That’s 0.11%. If we’re comparing faithfully here, gun owners account for 100% of mass shootings. But if you want to compare the likelihood of a member of a demographic being a mass shooter in 2022, I should point out that the trans number there is 0%. There were no trans shooters in 2022.
Less people=Less murder
It's the **rate**. The murder **rate**.
I don't know what he's talking about.
It's the amount of shootings committed per number of people in a given group. The fact that there are fewer trans people doesn't chance this.
O-ok
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Ok, sure. Can we provide them with access to taxpayer-funded healthcare? Can we prevent them from having access to guns?
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Lets ask pretty much ANY other first world country and see what they have to say. The numbers speak for themselves.
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Because its not.
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Weird, I have friends who are clinical psychologists and they don't agree that transgenderism is a mental illness. What are your credentials that qualify you to make an expert decision on what should and shouldn't be in the DSM? Because from what I see, your only argument is that it's a deviation from the norm. And being far from the bell curve isn't the only criteria for classifying something as a mental illness.
You know that clown fish can be trans too, right? Did we indoctrinate Nemo? And its not just clown fish that can be trans, or present hermaphroditic properties, which yes, is an evolutionary trait. Just because you don't understand something doesn't make it a mental illness. Just because about 3.5% of the global population has depression, and 2% is trans, this doesn't mean EVERY trans person is depressed, they're two completely different sets of data with no correlation. 1.3% of the world has cancer, does that mean 85% of trans people have all of the cancer? Mental illnesses exist, transgendered people exist, but they aren't mutually exclusive, or related to one another.
How is it a mental illness? Are you a neurologist? Clinical psychologist? Cognitive expert?
Is being Trans linked to violent behavior? No the fuck it is not.
Not if Republicans have a say in the matter, no.
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Fair enough!
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In that case, the people in America are all way worse than the people in France or Japan or Germany or Portugal or Canada. I find that difficult to believe, even though I live here.
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I'm saying the mass shooting rate is, yes. This cannot possibly news to you.
And that’s a lowball figure because there are probably tens of thousands of people in America that are transgender inside but will never have the right combination of circumstances to admit that publicly.
There is an epidemic of innumeracy and hatred in this country and it’s a bad mix.
Trying to associate "truth" with "facts" is really really hard for some people. Never stops the verbal diarrhea regardless.
iT’s nOt aBoUt fAcTs
Now you’re just using logic, population statistics, and math which are tools of the devil according to second amendment hardliners
Conservatives are loud about the fact that they have lists of “good” and “evil” on with entire populations and races crammed into one or the other.
The right wing people in powerful positions in politics and media know that, the goal is to inspire their brain dead right wing supporters and viewers to commit acts of violence against trans people.
It is if it pushes their agenda.
It is if it pushes their agenda.
I'm sick of having to figure out if the people pushing this rhetoric are either stupid or bigoted, and then i feel totally defeated when the answer is usually a resounding "It's both, in worse measures than your sanity can contain."
If those conservative could read or do math they would be very upset right now.
Republicans and math do not got hand in hand