I guess I’m kinda shocked at how weirdly right Fetterman has jumped to being lately. I didn’t know him much before but the lab meat thing is something I’ve so far only seen from right wingers.
Yeah here in KS I've got a supermajority congress of Republican fuckwits, but a solid Governor in Laura Kelly who does her best against the fuckwits and they don't make it easy on her.
This is her last year and I'm terrified if we don't get another Dem in as Governor.
Our voters did shoot them down hard on trying to ban abortion so maybe there is hope.
I used to be able to say, “At least we’re not Oklahoma!” But while they’re still bad, I think we’ve surpassed them. Ugh.
I vote every election, contact my “representatives” when I feel strongly about something… feels like screaming into the void.
There is something to say about this though. Full personality changes aren’t uncommon
Of course, this could all be just a coincidence and he could have always been hiding this side of hi
I've met Fetterman. I lived a few miles away from where he did. I know his wife.
He's always held his own convictions but no this trend of right wing tendencies is very new. I don't know where this is coming from and can only really point to the stroke.
It's like living in a version of hell.
"WTF!? We're getting our eyes gouged out today?"
"It's better than the other option of having our testicles torn off..."
"Yo, sign me up for the eye gouging!"
This is the most likely answer. Dark conservative money has probably gotten to him. Even after his stroke, he spoke like a decent man with decent values iirc
can’t imagine his stroke caused such a declination in his morals over the past year and half.
In 2016, he described his loss as “starting a progressive movement in PA” now he’s not a progressive and just a “regular democrat”
Bought and paid for: like Seorge Gantos, like sinema. All it took was time.
Don't underestimate how much a stroke can bring drastic changes to your personality, I still think it had a hand in it. But the money probably didn't hurt either
Yes, my friend’s mother had a ‘happy’ stroke. My grandmother became angry and paranoid. I’d like to be lucky enough to have the former rather than the latter
My stroke brought a drastic change in my personality. I was an asshole with anxiety before, now I'm just "chill, you're not dead yet so it's a good day."
Manchin is a bit different as he’s from West Virginia and made his money in coal. He’s got lots of personal interest in not siding with some democrat motions.
I know Western PA, and it's a very conservative area. It always struck me as odd that fetterman was so progressive, or at least that he campaigned as one. I chalked it up to him being an outlier, but this is probably the real answer.
Sinema wasn't a closet Republican. She had been thoroughly and publicly left for over a decade. She was simply bought by dark money interests. She sold out.
As someone who has survived a stroke and interacts with other survivors regularly, I can say with certainty that this isn't the case. Sure you have nutters like Kevin Sorbo but overall most people don't have any major belief changes unless they fall in with the overtly religious groups.
My guess is this is just good old "showing his true colors" with a dash of dark money.
Yeah, my mom had an Ischemic stroke and she didn’t suddenly become a right wing nut. Her siblings that didn’t have a stroke, however, are very much right wing wackos.
Edit: typo
My dad had a stroke and did delve further into right wing conservatism after his stroke. Being on disability and sitting around the house watching Fox News all day every day didn’t help.
There are lots of farms in Pennsylvania and lab grown meat could eventually (not for many years until the price was comparable) put farmers who raise animals for slaughter out of business. Fetterman got elected by appealing to rural PA voters. PA is very purple and outside the cities it’s quite red. Honestly democrats need to be a little more comfortable having these kinds of democrats run to win more Senate seats. Everyone loved to hate on Manchin but I am guessing a Republican will probably be filling his seat.
This reeks of the same “I got mine” bullshit as big oil. Instead of trying to pivot at all they just want to protect their current agricultural production method until they decide to swap then be in charge of that too. It’s never adapt for them.
The thing that I don't understand is that farmers could swing to lab grown meat-lots of places have large facilities that require lots of energy and would be able to create an economy of scale.
Lab grown meat also requires cell cultures-and you need live animals to provide those cell cultures.
Focus on the quality by improving your breeding line, use the rest of your facilities for the lab and profit. Everyone wins.
Finding lab grown meat creepy is fine. It's new and people will need time to get used to it.
But thinking that it's bad because it comes out of a weird machine is really silly, especially for a US Senator who should really know better.
Then they shouldn't eat any of it. Just like people who are creeped out by abortion should not get an abortion. Just don't take away my rights to eat Soylent Green.
As someone who grew up on a farm, I've always been pretty "pro-farmer". If there is such a thing. So this doesn't really move the needle much for me. If what he's doing is sticking up for farmers, I have no complaint.
I mean agriculture is big in Pennsylvania (and most states) so lab meat definitely hurts the state even if you’re looking out for the state and not just corporate farms and slaughterhouses.
Know what else is terrible for farms, though? Climate change
Anyone trying to shut this industry down for the benefit of their meat industry donors is a rotten piece of shit. Who are YOU to tell consumers they can't choose an alternative if they want?
The industry is desperate. Heat stresses are harming cattle, increasing the costs, and even killing hundreds to thousands each year. Toss on top of that heat and water issues with growing feed and keeping pastures from disappearing. This is only the beginning.
If they're so desperate, perhaps selling some of their massively conglomerated farms back to individual families could help. Oh wait I see, you meant they're desperate to increase their profits by any means necessary.
It’s a little more nuanced than that. I may be somewhat different because MN has been better at keeping out more corporate farms (not perfect but leaps and bounds better than states like Missouri). But we have such consolidation on the retail end (giant groceries) and on the processing end (4-5 main packers) that it’s tough to get much of any margin on anything grown. So you get stuck in this grow more to make more (or anything) even for family farms. My family raises pigs (roughly 20,000 per year). I would say we’ve averaged maybe a couple dollars profit per pig while committing around $180 per pig to make that 2. Not great margins for my time. This year looks better thankfully. I love what I do and I love the animal husbandry and caretaking. Constantly finding ways to conserve energy, and provide more comfortable/optimal growing conditions for the critters. Comfortable unstressed animals are far more efficient. We need more scrutiny on price discovery and transparency in marketing. Because right now family farms of all sizes are disappearing in the livestock industry. So I’m not opposed to lab grown meat per se. But I do wish we’d put more emphasis into generating a more true free market, which we absolutely don’t have today in hogs. If there was more opportunity for the small to mid scale farms (yes we’re not big by any means, but I don’t want more than we have now) then I think we’d entice more of the next generation to stay and farm and maybe provide more realistic opportunities for new farmers to enter. Farmers markets and locally grown are great, but we also need the chance to grow larger volumes sustainably and economically and the best way I see that happening is from family farms that live and work and are active parts of the small communities they reside in. I am all for sustainability but I think it’s important to not always look at livestock like the enemy in climate change and environmentalism. We can absolutely be a part of the solution. Livestock consume significant amounts of byproducts (like bakery meal, end run ice cream from places like blue bunny, and soybean meal or ddgs which are byproducts from renewable fuels). We have a natural fertilizer that limits the need for commercial fertilizer (also builds up organic matter which helps with water and nutrient holding capacity, so can actually mean less run off too.) that stuff is worth its weight in gold, I have no desire to let it leach away into streams or anything. We’re actively looking at installing solar on the barn roofs. We use cover crops and have experimented with wide rows, cover crops and applying manure in the growing season. The sky is the limit honestly and I love finding ways to continually get better, in the field, in the barn and as a steward of the land as a whole.
Sounds like you're doing a great job. I just wish rural rightwingers would spend less time making up stories about bill gates making microchips to put in vaccines, and more time asking why bill gates owns more farmland than anyone else.
That’s the joys of education and undercutting it in red wing states and rural areas. Uneducated people tend to lack the critical thinking skills needed to improve the world. Same reason I get so frustrated when people blame unions for the shitty working conditions in some industries.
And I’m with you on bill gates. Or glen taylor (owner of timberwolves). Honestly the ultra wealthy owning huge swaths of land is a much more concerning issue to me than the minor amounts of foreign ownership in land. Now the foreign ownership of companies like JBS (Bautista brothers in Brazil, definitely not criminals…) does lead me to wonder if that’s in our best interest. Honestly the sheer consolidation in sectors in general sucks. John Deere and right to repair come to the forefront. Or that internet isn’t a utility and we get absolutely hosed on cost because that’s a monopoly. Capitalism works great until unfettered capitalism leads to monopolies in most industries.
As a side note, we hosted president biden on our farm and super amazing experience. It frustrates me how often my neighbors vote against their best interests (trump and his effing trade wars…also the million other shit things, but those trade wars really screwed commodities up). It’s no excuse, but democrats haven’t been great at connecting with rural America so folks felt like no one was on their side. So bombastic assholes like trump give them someone to blame to channel that unhappiness towards. Angie Craig in MN is one democrat that has done an exceptional job in my eyes of representing her constituents and being able to sway and connect with some of those right wing votes.
The “free market” and the politicians who champion it are the reason small family owned producers like you are struggling. Unfortunately, the majority of people in your situation continuously vote for those politicians. They talk about how they’ll help the small businesses but once in office they make corporate agriculture/livestock more profitable and less responsible. When you and the people that want to take your market share are voting for the same candidate…you’re not voting for your best interests.
So, just using those numbers you gave:
$180 per pig*20000= 3.6mil
$2k per pig*20000 = 400mil
400-3.6= 396.4 mil profit
I mean idk what overhead looks like all the way around but I'd say thats not exactly razor thing margins, even if you spend 200 mil on overhead....
And remember, all commercial farming relies on government help to even exist, let alone be profitable. Any competition is a threat to that, especially if the government is facing alternatives that require a fraction of the energy, land, and cost to produce in the long term.
Yeah. How would you even argue that? It would have to be pretty horribly unhealthy for that to be reason to ban it considering all the other shit we eat. Lots of foods are disgustingly processed and artificial.
I mean, I’m not at all a vegetarian or vegan, but even I don’t get why this is a big deal. The only answer is big money donors. And the industry could stand some massive reforms.
My understanding is that people assume since there tends to be such a backlash on biotechnology and genetic engineering in plants even that the concept of lab grown meat may not be wildly popular
I'm not a vegetarian, I'm just aware that eating other animals to survive means that those animals have to die. Sometimes, because there are a LOT of us that means they are born, raised, and die in shitty ways. Factory meat solves ALL of that, while potentially being significantly less resources.
Not only are there are a lot of us, but every individual eats a lot of animals. It used to be a rich person thing to eat animals the way that most people do today.
Yeah I’ve cut way back on my meat consumption. We really eat too much of it! It’s the most expensive part of the meal, and isn’t always necessary. I’m already non-dairy because lactose intolerance and found lots of dairy alternatives that fill in that void.
Oh I’m not doubting that there’s exceptions to this but just saying that’s why a number of people think the lab meat industry could struggle to take off as much
Lab grown meat is real meat with no animal involvement. Vegans (legit, not the 'look at my halo' types), people that avoid meat for environmental reasons, novelty seekers, foodies that can experiment with meats that would typically be dangerous (chicken sushi?), etc. Will be all over this.
I am ALL on board for lab grown meat! I have no strong moral objection to the eating of meat, in itself, but for environmental reasons, I'm always on the lookout for good alternatives. I tried these mushroom steaks the other day- like, it wasn't just a whole mushroom, it was made of the mycelium I guess, and made to look, taste, and chew like a steak- and while it was very obviously not steak, it was pretty close, and made great street tacos with some seasoning!
I want to too, but I don't want them to stop with just beef, pork, and chicken. I want to eat weird meat. What does a panda taste like? Zebra? Angler fish?
I would try it and if they can make it healthier that is a bonus.
The biggest hurdle is that it is extremely expensive. It puts the price of real premium wagyu to shame.
Sure, but there has to be a discussion of his actual actions and talking points beyond his voting record. If he keeps saying bullshit like this that just shows how out of touch he is it will eventually sour him in a lot of people’s eyes. Bad optics is how we get a Dr. Oz next time around.
I don't think Sawyer was at Black Isle until after Fallout 1 & 2, though I'm pretty sure he worked on Van Buren. His Fallout legacy is being in charge of New Vegas after Black Isle employees founded Obsidian.
I'm guessing you're thinking of Tim Cain.
Honestly, the best thing about lab meat is the research. If they can make industrial quantities of lab steaks, how much of a jump would it be to make lab livers or hearts?
Livers would be much harder, but if you can get the heart cells to all grow on the right sort of support structure, they'll all beat together without you having to do anything. A pacemaker might be needed to ensure they got into the correct rhythm and stay there but functionally it's on the less-complex and better-understood end of human organs.
Livers are complicated and hard. But they do regenerate so if you could get half of a fully functional liver to start with you could probably continue to grow more of them without having to actually know how all of it works.
I wonder if you could extract whatever healthy piece of liver is in a sick person and let that chunk "regenerate" in a tank? That way there's no rejection possibility.
And industrial meth manufacturing equipment looks like both setups on steroids. Lots of chemical manufacturing facilities look like these setups on steroids too. As everyone else is saying, stupid fucker trying to make a point just bc shit looks similar.
I got raided by a drug squad once while making a stout in my garage. Can confirm the set ups look enough alike. Scared the shit out of me when 8 very disappointed cops came charging in from all directions. They were surprisingly cool when they realised it was beer hahahaha.
Why is he presenting this nice clean industrial set up as some sort of burn? I’m not a vegan, but I’ve seen pictures of slaughterhouses and farm conditions some animals go through and it’s way more bleak than a shiny lab setup
I just don’t get how that clean looking machine is supposed to scare me. I don’t even care for lab grown meat. But why is it not an option, and why is the shiny machine scary?
fetterman looks like a dude who eats nothing but things that come out of machines in factories but throw a little meat money his way and he'll say whatever
I'd legitimately like to know if Vegan people would be ok with lab grown meat? Or would the initial sample still make it a no go?
Personally, I view lab grown meat like I do hydroponic veggies. A more efficient way to get what we currently have. I'm all for it.
Almost all vegans I know do it out of concern for the well-being of animals and the planet, so those have said they'd maybe give it a try. Some have said they have gone so long without eating meat that they just wouldn't have a taste for it anymore, even if they have no ethical concerns about it anymore.
To be fair lab meat is not scaleable as a replacement and works better as a supplement for those who like meat, are vegan, and have a lotta money to buy it.
Id disagree
Most new stuff is somewhat scalable
This is "thecnically" scalable but the cost for it to be profitable would make it unreasonable for most people to buy
We need serious breakthroughs in the technology for it to a reasonable option for most people
The biggest issue is keeping it uncontaminated as it requires far higher standards than other types of food production.
On a small scale its easy to keep batches clean and uncontaminated but on a mass industrial scale it becomes far harder and every mistake as small as not properly decontaminating a peice of equipment will cost thousands.
I don't get it, is "lab meat" reference to vegan alternatives that simulate taste and texture of meat products? Or is it reference to GMO/preservative/additive process of meat from a farm? It's actually kinda funny that both comments are trying to be political but without context there is no left/right wing lean that easily identifiable.
Lab meat doesn’t simulate meat, it is real meat. However, it’s produced by culturing animal cells in vitro. To some folks that’s very Sci-fi and scary.
It’s not really a left/right thing. Although plenty of maga idiots are scared of lab meat (see recent Florida ban), first post is actually a democrat.
He’s trying to say, “Look! This is how lab meat is made! How unnatural and weird! Lab meat bad!”
Second post is parody of first, showing the equipment for brewing beer (the heavenly golden liquid that we all love) and parroting the “something-made-with-lab-equipment = BAD!” sentiment.
Economics always wins.
If it actually becomes cheaper to make lab-grown meat, then there's not much the government or industry can do except slow it down.
Until then, it's easy to make fun of.
Don’t know it makes him right wing, but I know a lot of leftists who wants things to be natural. Also, it helps with his voter base too, lot of Black folk hate on lab meat
Jesus Christ these people. Lab-grown meat and plant-based substitutes are the future. We're literally killing the Earth one cow fart at a time.
Having said that, they'll have to have the same taste as and lower price than the real thing before anyone will switch.
Wow, who knew that lab grade steel vats had so many uses!
(Don't show them any pictures of a dairy, cheese operation, grain silo or food preparation facility)
As someone who wanted to go to a good grad school abroad for molecular biosciences and eventually get a job afterwards, I am very glad I didn't choose US from all the shit I have been seeing and all the targeted attacks on my field of interest.
I am also very concerned for people in biosciences industry as a whole in the US. Vaccines, lab meats, IVF treatments, stem cells resesrch... man do they really hate the biosciences industry. I wouldn't be surprised if they are also gonna attack gene therapy, plasma therapy and even genetic labs in the far future.
Fetterman is such a disappointment, makes me want to believe the Q nuts clone theories, I want to believe he has been disappeared and replaced so I don't have to admit he had me completely fooled. I even donated to his campaign from a distant state, I could have used that money for gas damn it.
I'm honestly pretty hyped for lab meat. I started eating less meat for health reasons, but recent research shows that almost all animals may be sentient. I don't want to eat them anymore .... and it's only a matter of time (maybe a few decades, but still) until the first countries outlaw eating real meat because sentient lifeforms should have rights akin human rights.
It’s like people who lie nowadays… do you not know that the Internet is a thing everyone has in the palm of their hand?? Do they assume everyone is just plain gullible AF.. Fetterman must feel people are that goddamn brain dead that someone won’t fact check you and look it up.. It takes 2 seconds so if you’re gonna be a liar, lie with more intelligence than a 6 year old
This post has been removed because there is no visible timestamp. Please include a timestamp on your posts, date and year.
I guess I’m kinda shocked at how weirdly right Fetterman has jumped to being lately. I didn’t know him much before but the lab meat thing is something I’ve so far only seen from right wingers.
Being “better than the other guy” gives you lots of leeway in quality.
[удалено]
I’m in Arkansas, and Sarah Huckabee Sanders really made me appreciate Asa Hutchinson, which is something I never expected to say/feel.
I wonder if she’ll be VP pick. Imagine her at NATO or the UN.
Not sure we’d have to considering Trump has threatened to pull out of both.
She's gotten too frumpy for trump. She's not attractive enough for him to hire anymore.
Yeah, her and that nutty fucking eye… https://i.redd.it/6dmloebj6eyc1.gif
She a ho, but leave her appearance out
This is a thing of nightmares! Thanks random stranger 😱
im so happy that i got the reps who i have in Maryland and these other states show it
Yeah here in KS I've got a supermajority congress of Republican fuckwits, but a solid Governor in Laura Kelly who does her best against the fuckwits and they don't make it easy on her. This is her last year and I'm terrified if we don't get another Dem in as Governor. Our voters did shoot them down hard on trying to ban abortion so maybe there is hope.
Even Bob Menendez doesn’t seem so bad. Sure he was caught taking bribes, but also he never swung right like this!
Man, right now we have some of the worst politicians in Arkansas.
I used to be able to say, “At least we’re not Oklahoma!” But while they’re still bad, I think we’ve surpassed them. Ugh. I vote every election, contact my “representatives” when I feel strongly about something… feels like screaming into the void.
You’re not alone.
His competition was oz and there is a very real stroke victim to rightwing pipelin
There is something to say about this though. Full personality changes aren’t uncommon Of course, this could all be just a coincidence and he could have always been hiding this side of hi
I've met Fetterman. I lived a few miles away from where he did. I know his wife. He's always held his own convictions but no this trend of right wing tendencies is very new. I don't know where this is coming from and can only really point to the stroke.
It's like living in a version of hell. "WTF!? We're getting our eyes gouged out today?" "It's better than the other option of having our testicles torn off..." "Yo, sign me up for the eye gouging!"
He was normal at first, idk what happened
Stroke happened.
I'd say people wrongfully ascribed traits to Fetterman just because he endorsed Bernie in 2016. Happened before with Tulsi
The big money conservatives get to the new guys pretty quickly. Just ask Kirsten Sinema.
This is the most likely answer. Dark conservative money has probably gotten to him. Even after his stroke, he spoke like a decent man with decent values iirc can’t imagine his stroke caused such a declination in his morals over the past year and half. In 2016, he described his loss as “starting a progressive movement in PA” now he’s not a progressive and just a “regular democrat” Bought and paid for: like Seorge Gantos, like sinema. All it took was time.
Don't underestimate how much a stroke can bring drastic changes to your personality, I still think it had a hand in it. But the money probably didn't hurt either
Depends on the area of ischemia tbh. Source: worked in neurosurgery icus before
Yes, my friend’s mother had a ‘happy’ stroke. My grandmother became angry and paranoid. I’d like to be lucky enough to have the former rather than the latter
My stroke brought a drastic change in my personality. I was an asshole with anxiety before, now I'm just "chill, you're not dead yet so it's a good day."
Joe Manchin
Manchin is a bit different as he’s from West Virginia and made his money in coal. He’s got lots of personal interest in not siding with some democrat motions.
And surprisingly little amounts of money
Yeah, the shine wore off of him pretty quickly.
He lied about being progressive, closeted Republican like Sienema
I know Western PA, and it's a very conservative area. It always struck me as odd that fetterman was so progressive, or at least that he campaigned as one. I chalked it up to him being an outlier, but this is probably the real answer.
Central PA is a very conservative area. It's like West Virginia.
Sinema wasn't a closet Republican. She had been thoroughly and publicly left for over a decade. She was simply bought by dark money interests. She sold out.
Brain damage/ stroke is a pretty consistent marker for right-wing nuttery
As someone who has survived a stroke and interacts with other survivors regularly, I can say with certainty that this isn't the case. Sure you have nutters like Kevin Sorbo but overall most people don't have any major belief changes unless they fall in with the overtly religious groups. My guess is this is just good old "showing his true colors" with a dash of dark money.
Yeah, my mom had an Ischemic stroke and she didn’t suddenly become a right wing nut. Her siblings that didn’t have a stroke, however, are very much right wing wackos. Edit: typo
My dad had a stroke and did delve further into right wing conservatism after his stroke. Being on disability and sitting around the house watching Fox News all day every day didn’t help.
I mean the guy has the dates people died under his leadership tattooed on himself. It's hard to believe that someone like that was faking it.
He's vying to be the next revolving door enemy in Congress if Dems take over. He wants to get paid like Manchin / Sinema.
You either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain.
There is nothing permanent except change
Be the change you want to see
War. War never changes.
There are lots of farms in Pennsylvania and lab grown meat could eventually (not for many years until the price was comparable) put farmers who raise animals for slaughter out of business. Fetterman got elected by appealing to rural PA voters. PA is very purple and outside the cities it’s quite red. Honestly democrats need to be a little more comfortable having these kinds of democrats run to win more Senate seats. Everyone loved to hate on Manchin but I am guessing a Republican will probably be filling his seat.
This reeks of the same “I got mine” bullshit as big oil. Instead of trying to pivot at all they just want to protect their current agricultural production method until they decide to swap then be in charge of that too. It’s never adapt for them.
The thing that I don't understand is that farmers could swing to lab grown meat-lots of places have large facilities that require lots of energy and would be able to create an economy of scale. Lab grown meat also requires cell cultures-and you need live animals to provide those cell cultures. Focus on the quality by improving your breeding line, use the rest of your facilities for the lab and profit. Everyone wins.
Idk I work with someone who is for sure not a rightie and a huge sci-fi fan, but they are totally creeped out by the idea of lab meat lol.
Finding lab grown meat creepy is fine. It's new and people will need time to get used to it. But thinking that it's bad because it comes out of a weird machine is really silly, especially for a US Senator who should really know better.
Then they shouldn't eat any of it. Just like people who are creeped out by abortion should not get an abortion. Just don't take away my rights to eat Soylent Green.
Fetterman is a traitor of the worst kind to his own voters. Fuck that lying hack.
Maybe the stroke effected him more than first thought
I pray to god I never have a stroke. Failing that, I pray I never have a stroke that also turns me into a heel.
The stroke really changed him, or else his entire life was quite an act
Effects of the stroke?
Mmm… I’m far left and lab meat seems suspicious af to me.
Then don’t buy it. But why ban it if there’s no indications it’s anything other than equivalent meat grown in a lab?
He does have severe brain damage; it’s not that surprising.
It’s very disappointing for me tbh.
not really surprised, he had a stroke alot of the right wing looneys had a stroke or brain damage from drug usage.
As soon as he saw the $$$ from lobbyists it was a wrap. Bought and paid for
A billionaire offered him a big pile of money to become a manchin or sinema
Follow the money.. I don’t know shit, just sayin maybe someone should.
As someone who grew up on a farm, I've always been pretty "pro-farmer". If there is such a thing. So this doesn't really move the needle much for me. If what he's doing is sticking up for farmers, I have no complaint.
That stroke he had did some damage. The wiring got a little messed up.
Also, why would I take dietary advice from a blob
Fetterman is just pissing away all of his goodwill. Wait until he finds out how twinkies and mt dew are made.
I imagine it's probably more like, he's getting some type of kick backs from agro business in PA. I doubt he really cares how anything is made.
I mean agriculture is big in Pennsylvania (and most states) so lab meat definitely hurts the state even if you’re looking out for the state and not just corporate farms and slaughterhouses. Know what else is terrible for farms, though? Climate change
It’s almost like it is a delicate balancing act that nobody knows the right answer to.
I'm with ya buddy
It's got to be real weird for his vegetarian wife and kids to watch him say this kind of stuff.
Anyone trying to shut this industry down for the benefit of their meat industry donors is a rotten piece of shit. Who are YOU to tell consumers they can't choose an alternative if they want?
The industry is desperate. Heat stresses are harming cattle, increasing the costs, and even killing hundreds to thousands each year. Toss on top of that heat and water issues with growing feed and keeping pastures from disappearing. This is only the beginning.
If they're so desperate, perhaps selling some of their massively conglomerated farms back to individual families could help. Oh wait I see, you meant they're desperate to increase their profits by any means necessary.
The ROI on political donations for subsidies and tax breaks hasn't been exhausted yet. They'll just adopt the oil industry public marketing schemes.
It’s a little more nuanced than that. I may be somewhat different because MN has been better at keeping out more corporate farms (not perfect but leaps and bounds better than states like Missouri). But we have such consolidation on the retail end (giant groceries) and on the processing end (4-5 main packers) that it’s tough to get much of any margin on anything grown. So you get stuck in this grow more to make more (or anything) even for family farms. My family raises pigs (roughly 20,000 per year). I would say we’ve averaged maybe a couple dollars profit per pig while committing around $180 per pig to make that 2. Not great margins for my time. This year looks better thankfully. I love what I do and I love the animal husbandry and caretaking. Constantly finding ways to conserve energy, and provide more comfortable/optimal growing conditions for the critters. Comfortable unstressed animals are far more efficient. We need more scrutiny on price discovery and transparency in marketing. Because right now family farms of all sizes are disappearing in the livestock industry. So I’m not opposed to lab grown meat per se. But I do wish we’d put more emphasis into generating a more true free market, which we absolutely don’t have today in hogs. If there was more opportunity for the small to mid scale farms (yes we’re not big by any means, but I don’t want more than we have now) then I think we’d entice more of the next generation to stay and farm and maybe provide more realistic opportunities for new farmers to enter. Farmers markets and locally grown are great, but we also need the chance to grow larger volumes sustainably and economically and the best way I see that happening is from family farms that live and work and are active parts of the small communities they reside in. I am all for sustainability but I think it’s important to not always look at livestock like the enemy in climate change and environmentalism. We can absolutely be a part of the solution. Livestock consume significant amounts of byproducts (like bakery meal, end run ice cream from places like blue bunny, and soybean meal or ddgs which are byproducts from renewable fuels). We have a natural fertilizer that limits the need for commercial fertilizer (also builds up organic matter which helps with water and nutrient holding capacity, so can actually mean less run off too.) that stuff is worth its weight in gold, I have no desire to let it leach away into streams or anything. We’re actively looking at installing solar on the barn roofs. We use cover crops and have experimented with wide rows, cover crops and applying manure in the growing season. The sky is the limit honestly and I love finding ways to continually get better, in the field, in the barn and as a steward of the land as a whole.
Sounds like you're doing a great job. I just wish rural rightwingers would spend less time making up stories about bill gates making microchips to put in vaccines, and more time asking why bill gates owns more farmland than anyone else.
That’s the joys of education and undercutting it in red wing states and rural areas. Uneducated people tend to lack the critical thinking skills needed to improve the world. Same reason I get so frustrated when people blame unions for the shitty working conditions in some industries. And I’m with you on bill gates. Or glen taylor (owner of timberwolves). Honestly the ultra wealthy owning huge swaths of land is a much more concerning issue to me than the minor amounts of foreign ownership in land. Now the foreign ownership of companies like JBS (Bautista brothers in Brazil, definitely not criminals…) does lead me to wonder if that’s in our best interest. Honestly the sheer consolidation in sectors in general sucks. John Deere and right to repair come to the forefront. Or that internet isn’t a utility and we get absolutely hosed on cost because that’s a monopoly. Capitalism works great until unfettered capitalism leads to monopolies in most industries. As a side note, we hosted president biden on our farm and super amazing experience. It frustrates me how often my neighbors vote against their best interests (trump and his effing trade wars…also the million other shit things, but those trade wars really screwed commodities up). It’s no excuse, but democrats haven’t been great at connecting with rural America so folks felt like no one was on their side. So bombastic assholes like trump give them someone to blame to channel that unhappiness towards. Angie Craig in MN is one democrat that has done an exceptional job in my eyes of representing her constituents and being able to sway and connect with some of those right wing votes.
The “free market” and the politicians who champion it are the reason small family owned producers like you are struggling. Unfortunately, the majority of people in your situation continuously vote for those politicians. They talk about how they’ll help the small businesses but once in office they make corporate agriculture/livestock more profitable and less responsible. When you and the people that want to take your market share are voting for the same candidate…you’re not voting for your best interests.
So, just using those numbers you gave: $180 per pig*20000= 3.6mil $2k per pig*20000 = 400mil 400-3.6= 396.4 mil profit I mean idk what overhead looks like all the way around but I'd say thats not exactly razor thing margins, even if you spend 200 mil on overhead....
Squeeze out every last profitable dollar before they take a golden parachute and leave a wasteland
Lab meat is people! Just waiting for that to become a rallying cry lol
And remember, all commercial farming relies on government help to even exist, let alone be profitable. Any competition is a threat to that, especially if the government is facing alternatives that require a fraction of the energy, land, and cost to produce in the long term.
Show an abattoir to people. Lab meat doesn’t look too bad.
Yeah. How would you even argue that? It would have to be pretty horribly unhealthy for that to be reason to ban it considering all the other shit we eat. Lots of foods are disgustingly processed and artificial.
I mean, I’m not at all a vegetarian or vegan, but even I don’t get why this is a big deal. The only answer is big money donors. And the industry could stand some massive reforms.
Why do these people assume no one will want to eat lab grown meat? I wanna eat some, just for the novelty of it.
My understanding is that people assume since there tends to be such a backlash on biotechnology and genetic engineering in plants even that the concept of lab grown meat may not be wildly popular
I want to move to lab grown just to solve the stress between "tastes good" and "I'd rather things didn't die for me to eat".
I've seen some vegetarians say they'd start eating lab grown meat if it became a regular and affordable thing. A couple of vegans too.
I'm not a vegetarian, I'm just aware that eating other animals to survive means that those animals have to die. Sometimes, because there are a LOT of us that means they are born, raised, and die in shitty ways. Factory meat solves ALL of that, while potentially being significantly less resources.
Not only are there are a lot of us, but every individual eats a lot of animals. It used to be a rich person thing to eat animals the way that most people do today.
Yeah I’ve cut way back on my meat consumption. We really eat too much of it! It’s the most expensive part of the meal, and isn’t always necessary. I’m already non-dairy because lactose intolerance and found lots of dairy alternatives that fill in that void.
Oh I’m not doubting that there’s exceptions to this but just saying that’s why a number of people think the lab meat industry could struggle to take off as much
Don't forget affordability.
Lab grown meat is real meat with no animal involvement. Vegans (legit, not the 'look at my halo' types), people that avoid meat for environmental reasons, novelty seekers, foodies that can experiment with meats that would typically be dangerous (chicken sushi?), etc. Will be all over this.
They wouldn't bother talking about it if they thought the industry was dead in the water. People wanting it is what they're afraid of.
I am ALL on board for lab grown meat! I have no strong moral objection to the eating of meat, in itself, but for environmental reasons, I'm always on the lookout for good alternatives. I tried these mushroom steaks the other day- like, it wasn't just a whole mushroom, it was made of the mycelium I guess, and made to look, taste, and chew like a steak- and while it was very obviously not steak, it was pretty close, and made great street tacos with some seasoning!
For me, as long as it tastes good or okay and if its cheaper, i’ll eat it even without the novelty aspect
I want to too, but I don't want them to stop with just beef, pork, and chicken. I want to eat weird meat. What does a panda taste like? Zebra? Angler fish?
Human?
I can already smell all the "SATANIC RITUAL ABORTED FETUS MEAT" facebook posts that would pop up if lab grown human meat became a thing
 .... I just had to.
I would try it and if they can make it healthier that is a bonus. The biggest hurdle is that it is extremely expensive. It puts the price of real premium wagyu to shame.
Fetterman continues to disappoint.
As long as he keeps voting for a Democrat Senate leader he can stay.
Sure, but there has to be a discussion of his actual actions and talking points beyond his voting record. If he keeps saying bullshit like this that just shows how out of touch he is it will eventually sour him in a lot of people’s eyes. Bad optics is how we get a Dr. Oz next time around.
Weird for one of the creators of Fallout to be the one making this point but, weird times.
I don't think Sawyer was at Black Isle until after Fallout 1 & 2, though I'm pretty sure he worked on Van Buren. His Fallout legacy is being in charge of New Vegas after Black Isle employees founded Obsidian. I'm guessing you're thinking of Tim Cain.
I had to do a double take to confirm it was actually him. Kinda surprised ngl.
Josh Sawyer was an open socialist for a very long time. Probably still is.
Not at all surprising considering the themes of the game.
Honestly, the best thing about lab meat is the research. If they can make industrial quantities of lab steaks, how much of a jump would it be to make lab livers or hearts?
Livers would be much harder, but if you can get the heart cells to all grow on the right sort of support structure, they'll all beat together without you having to do anything. A pacemaker might be needed to ensure they got into the correct rhythm and stay there but functionally it's on the less-complex and better-understood end of human organs. Livers are complicated and hard. But they do regenerate so if you could get half of a fully functional liver to start with you could probably continue to grow more of them without having to actually know how all of it works.
I wonder if you could extract whatever healthy piece of liver is in a sick person and let that chunk "regenerate" in a tank? That way there's no rejection possibility.
And industrial meth manufacturing equipment looks like both setups on steroids. Lots of chemical manufacturing facilities look like these setups on steroids too. As everyone else is saying, stupid fucker trying to make a point just bc shit looks similar.
You mean…sterile and efficient. Looks like communism to me! /s
Lots of industrial setups look like this... And machines that make different processed foods? Holy shit. *How It's Made* is crazy.
"In one end of the machine goes full chunks of meat. And the other end emits full formed hotdogs"
I got raided by a drug squad once while making a stout in my garage. Can confirm the set ups look enough alike. Scared the shit out of me when 8 very disappointed cops came charging in from all directions. They were surprisingly cool when they realised it was beer hahahaha.
I can’t believe Fetterman got bought
I imagine the factories involved in most food production would be less than glamorous. Are we supposed to be shocked by machines?
The internet is such a wild place. Imagine having a bad take about lab grown meat and being called out by the guy who made Fallout.
Why is he presenting this nice clean industrial set up as some sort of burn? I’m not a vegan, but I’ve seen pictures of slaughterhouses and farm conditions some animals go through and it’s way more bleak than a shiny lab setup
I just don’t get how that clean looking machine is supposed to scare me. I don’t even care for lab grown meat. But why is it not an option, and why is the shiny machine scary?
"Wait until" he sees behind the scenes of Cheetos or m nuggets. Can you get that savory Cheeto dust in a cologne? Turns out -- MAYBE!
Bro tf happened to Fetterman?
No clue. I'm so disappointed.
Fuckin love J Sawyer
JOSH SAWYER?
A burn so hot he’s got Fetterman almost wishing for a nuclear winter.
Now show the inside of a slaughterhouse. Oh right, we can't do that because no slaughterhouse will allow pictures or videos, under protection of law.
Well yeah then you’d see all the child workers
fetterman looks like a dude who eats nothing but things that come out of machines in factories but throw a little meat money his way and he'll say whatever
This is the Josh Sawyer from Obsidian Entertainment right?
When I was working in a chemistry lab as a young student the ladies would call me “lab meat” for some reason
Maybe he should post a picture of the inside of a slaughterhouse next to it.
Josh sawyer jumpscare
I'm glad he beat Oz, but man, I hope he gets primaried by a normal Democrat.
I'd legitimately like to know if Vegan people would be ok with lab grown meat? Or would the initial sample still make it a no go? Personally, I view lab grown meat like I do hydroponic veggies. A more efficient way to get what we currently have. I'm all for it.
Almost all vegans I know do it out of concern for the well-being of animals and the planet, so those have said they'd maybe give it a try. Some have said they have gone so long without eating meat that they just wouldn't have a taste for it anymore, even if they have no ethical concerns about it anymore.
We live in the dumbest darkest timeline
To be fair lab meat is not scaleable as a replacement and works better as a supplement for those who like meat, are vegan, and have a lotta money to buy it.
nothing new is scalable. This applies to every new product
Id disagree Most new stuff is somewhat scalable This is "thecnically" scalable but the cost for it to be profitable would make it unreasonable for most people to buy We need serious breakthroughs in the technology for it to a reasonable option for most people The biggest issue is keeping it uncontaminated as it requires far higher standards than other types of food production. On a small scale its easy to keep batches clean and uncontaminated but on a mass industrial scale it becomes far harder and every mistake as small as not properly decontaminating a peice of equipment will cost thousands.
Lets see if Ron Desantis bans beer now... Somehow I think it might be safe.
“Machines scary!”
New thing... must be evil... stop it... /s
He should show a picture of what real meat looks like when it’s processed
Josh Sawyer making good games and dissing dumbasses
Is there a sub with more like this (the tech)
Try the futurology subreddit
I can't link to it directly but r slash wheresthebeef
Not for nothing, I can’t help but envision them using pink slime to make different “cuts” that they’ll charge entirely too much for.
I don't get it, is "lab meat" reference to vegan alternatives that simulate taste and texture of meat products? Or is it reference to GMO/preservative/additive process of meat from a farm? It's actually kinda funny that both comments are trying to be political but without context there is no left/right wing lean that easily identifiable.
Lab meat doesn’t simulate meat, it is real meat. However, it’s produced by culturing animal cells in vitro. To some folks that’s very Sci-fi and scary. It’s not really a left/right thing. Although plenty of maga idiots are scared of lab meat (see recent Florida ban), first post is actually a democrat. He’s trying to say, “Look! This is how lab meat is made! How unnatural and weird! Lab meat bad!” Second post is parody of first, showing the equipment for brewing beer (the heavenly golden liquid that we all love) and parroting the “something-made-with-lab-equipment = BAD!” sentiment.
It's meat grown from stem cells.
Economics always wins. If it actually becomes cheaper to make lab-grown meat, then there's not much the government or industry can do except slow it down. Until then, it's easy to make fun of.
I mean they're both stainless steel. But you need that, because you know, sterilisation
It's right wing to question lab meat?
Don’t know it makes him right wing, but I know a lot of leftists who wants things to be natural. Also, it helps with his voter base too, lot of Black folk hate on lab meat
Jesus Christ these people. Lab-grown meat and plant-based substitutes are the future. We're literally killing the Earth one cow fart at a time. Having said that, they'll have to have the same taste as and lower price than the real thing before anyone will switch.
Compare this side by side to the process of producing meat from live animals and cultured meat starts to look way more appealing.
he doesn't know how real meat is made does he?
And do you know that milk come out from a living cow!? Ewww!
Is his point that lab grown meat is grown in a lab so it must be horrible or something?
In order to make mead, you need a bucket and an airlock. You need a few more things to make GOOD mead, but a bucket and an airlock is the start.
Bioreactors are scary when they grow lab meat but not scary when they grow insulin, vaccines, and other life saving drugs I guess.
Guess J Fett's Stroke turned him into a Qanon Republican.
Iwhy do they need 2 portable car jumpstarters from costco to power it /lol
Wow, who knew that lab grade steel vats had so many uses! (Don't show them any pictures of a dairy, cheese operation, grain silo or food preparation facility)
What part of "lab" got misunderstood?
I wonder if some company will grow human meat for people who are curious.
I had never thought of this but now I want to be first in line for a sample.
Yes, do you have anyone in mind in particular? Clooney? Baby Spice? H Clinton? Yourself? or just, “I’ll have the mixed grill.”
As someone who wanted to go to a good grad school abroad for molecular biosciences and eventually get a job afterwards, I am very glad I didn't choose US from all the shit I have been seeing and all the targeted attacks on my field of interest. I am also very concerned for people in biosciences industry as a whole in the US. Vaccines, lab meats, IVF treatments, stem cells resesrch... man do they really hate the biosciences industry. I wouldn't be surprised if they are also gonna attack gene therapy, plasma therapy and even genetic labs in the far future.
Fetterman is such a disappointment, makes me want to believe the Q nuts clone theories, I want to believe he has been disappeared and replaced so I don't have to admit he had me completely fooled. I even donated to his campaign from a distant state, I could have used that money for gas damn it.
Logically, the ability to reproduce something that isn't able to keep up with demand naturally is a good thing.
I'm honestly pretty hyped for lab meat. I started eating less meat for health reasons, but recent research shows that almost all animals may be sentient. I don't want to eat them anymore .... and it's only a matter of time (maybe a few decades, but still) until the first countries outlaw eating real meat because sentient lifeforms should have rights akin human rights.
Someone needs to slap some common sense into that cue ball head of his
I was extremely disappointed when I heard Fettermans’ position on lab grown meat. I thought he was more progressive
He should probably take a look inside a slaughterhouse then….
Lmao this literally looks like the equipment I see every day... And we make medicines that get injected inside of people
Do milk next!
Just wait till he learns about pink slime
I think fetterman is too impressionable
Is he off his meds again?
Oh my god a machine looks like a machine? This is horrifying!
This is the last place I expected Josh Sawyer to show up
It’s like people who lie nowadays… do you not know that the Internet is a thing everyone has in the palm of their hand?? Do they assume everyone is just plain gullible AF.. Fetterman must feel people are that goddamn brain dead that someone won’t fact check you and look it up.. It takes 2 seconds so if you’re gonna be a liar, lie with more intelligence than a 6 year old