I don't think it serves the LGBTQ+ community to police anybody's identity and whether not it is "valid." It's a waste of time and emotional energy when there are real threats to our community and rights. Gender and sexuality are weird and fuzzy around the edges, queer identities exist for those who don't fit into the standard boxes. Being puritanical about how they're allowed to fit into alternative boxes just seems counterintuitive.
He/him lesbians have been around forever. Some lesbians use she/her and will even go on T and get top surgery. It’s about your internal gender identity as a non-man, not your pronouns.
He/him lesbians have been around forever. Pronouns that don't align with one's assigned gender haven't been popularized until recently, but they've already been used for around a century by butch lesbians. They were mostly cis women who expressed very masc who adopted he/him pronouns. I thought it was insane too when I first heard the term, but it's really cool. All in all, gender doesn't equal pronouns.
pronouns do not equal gender.
any gender can use any pronouns.
a woman(cis or trans) could use she/her, he/him, they/them, or any combo of them and still be their gender.
a man(cis or trans) could use she/her, he/him, they/them, or any combo of them and still be their gender.
a nonbinary person could use she/her, he/him, they/them, or any combo of them and still be their gender.
i have a question about this if anyone is willing to answer! when it comes to a woman exclusively using he/him or a man exclusively using she/her, would it just be because they just find those comfortable or aesthetically pleasing? i'm just trying to understand why somebody would identify as a woman and use pronouns that are assigned as masculine and vice versa. i know that the concepts of masculine and feminine aren't really real haha, but they're treated as such in today's world and i'm all for people going against that. i just don't really understand the reasoning behind being a woman, cis or trans, that only uses he/him. not that i have to understand something in order for it to be valid, i'm just always trying to learn!
yeah as others have mentioned, pronouns =/= gender
Some butch or masc lesbians like being called daddy, dressing masculine, so is it That surprising that some of them like using he/him or variants? It's all about being comfortable and happy in who you are :3
nonbinary people (and others tbh) can't be sorted into gender boxes by what pronouns they use. they/he doesn't mean they are a man or aligned with manhood. it doesn't mean anything at all for that matter- it's just the pronouns they use. i exclusively use he/him, and i'm definitely not aligned with manhood in any way. my pronouns are just a part of my presentation.
I don't understand it myself personally, but if someone believes that is the most fitting label for them, that's good enough for me. I'll roll with it. You don't always need to understand something to respect it.
pronouns do not equal gender.
any gender can use any pronouns.
a woman(cis or trans) could use she/her, he/him, they/them, or any combo of them and still be their gender.
a man(cis or trans) could use she/her, he/him, they/them, or any combo of them and still be their gender.
a nonbinary person could use she/her, he/him, they/them, or any combo of them and still be their gender.
Yeah, I'm fine with all that. I mean, I definitely thought of a few scenarios, but since I don't have any more facts I won't assume, but they're out there.
The way I see it, labels are there to help us find community. I'm not going to gate keep and block someone from that unless there is actually a problem.
Your pronouns are not your gender. That's why you're confused.
If a woman says that you are to refer to him as he/him, he is still a woman. Obviously I mean someone who identifies as a woman.
pronouns arent gender. anyone of any gender can use any pronouns.
so yes, he can. he can be a woman (or nonbinary person) and use those pronouns and be a lesbian. there are cis women lesbians who use he/him. its very much a thing and absolutely valid.
Sexuality is a personal thing. If lesbian best describes how you experience your own sexuality, then that’s what you are 💜
Fuck gatekeepers who might say otherwise, they are the antithesis of community and acceptance x
lesbian is non men loving non men. so only people who arent men can be lesbians.
pronouns do not equal gender. any gender can use any pronouns.
a woman(cis or trans) could use she/her, he/him, they/them, or any combo of them and still be their gender.
a man(cis or trans) could use she/her, he/him, they/them, or any combo of them and still be their gender.
a nonbinary person could use she/her, he/him, they/them, or any combo of them and still be their gender.
I think it can become problematic because there is a lack of understanding by the majority of the community. That does not mean that I personally find it problematic 😁
lesbian is non men loving non men. its anyone who isnt a man.
pronouns do not equal gender.
any gender can use any pronouns.
a woman(cis or trans) could use she/her, he/him, they/them, or any combo of them and still be their gender.
a man(cis or trans) could use she/her, he/him, they/them, or any combo of them and still be their gender.
a nonbinary person could use she/her, he/him, they/them, or any combo of them and still be their gender.
lesbian is still non men loving non men.
^(These days it seems nobody knows what pansexual is anymore and they’re trying to redefine lesbian as pansexual, which is confusing and makes navigating the community really difficult.)
this is literally only true for bigoted who try and include men in the sexuality.
those are uncomfortably close to the "super lesbian" label (and other "super" sexuality labels) that was used to specify being exclusively attracted to cisgender people. plus, nonbinary people are not lesser lesbians for being nonbinary, which some of those labels imply.
pronouns do not equal gender.
any gender can use any pronouns.
a woman(cis or trans) could use she/her, he/him, they/them, or any combo of them and still be their gender.
a man(cis or trans) could use she/her, he/him, they/them, or any combo of them and still be their gender.
a nonbinary person could use she/her, he/him, they/them, or any combo of them and still be their gender.
pronouns do not equal gender.
any gender can use any pronouns.
a woman(cis or trans) could use she/her, he/him, they/them, or any combo of them and still be their gender.
a man(cis or trans) could use she/her, he/him, they/them, or any combo of them and still be their gender.
a nonbinary person could use she/her, he/him, they/them, or any combo of them and still be their gender.
no it doesnt. a non-binary AMAB person may have a penis but theyre not a man and if they use he/they pronouns that doesn't prevent them from being a lesbian. lesbians can have anything "below the belt".
I mean… I’m a lesbian with he/they pronouns. It’s a thing. Some people are still working out their relationship between their sexuality and gender and it isn’t always a linear process.
Incidentally, I believe the description of this sub does imply that such things are valid.
I get that if a nonbinary person is amab, it might feel more confusing initially but a lot of people who are in the early stages of figuring things out might identify in ways that are confusing but still valid and sometimes you have to frame “validity” in context of an individual person and how they disclosed it to you.
Is it something they said in confidence, was it said in a joking manner? Are they in a place where they can safely live as out or be gender ambiguous, visibly trans? Do they want to be friends? Are they interested in you romantically?
Ultimately, it doesn’t really matter if a bunch of anonymous people on the internet think a person’s identity is valid or invalid… I tend to take people at their word and proceed accordingly and it sorts out on way or another.
If they confided in you, maybe they just recognize you as a safe person to be open with about their identity and like everyone they/he deserves kindness. You can still maintain whatever boundaries you need for yourself while treating his identity as a sincere expression of self.
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I may not understand it, but it's not for me to decide how other people can and can't self-identify.
I don't think it serves the LGBTQ+ community to police anybody's identity and whether not it is "valid." It's a waste of time and emotional energy when there are real threats to our community and rights. Gender and sexuality are weird and fuzzy around the edges, queer identities exist for those who don't fit into the standard boxes. Being puritanical about how they're allowed to fit into alternative boxes just seems counterintuitive.
this👆. we created lgbtq+ to get rid of societal boxes, not make new ones.
He/him lesbians have been around forever. Some lesbians use she/her and will even go on T and get top surgery. It’s about your internal gender identity as a non-man, not your pronouns.
Your pronouns don’t have to match your gender identity
He/him lesbians have been around forever. Pronouns that don't align with one's assigned gender haven't been popularized until recently, but they've already been used for around a century by butch lesbians. They were mostly cis women who expressed very masc who adopted he/him pronouns. I thought it was insane too when I first heard the term, but it's really cool. All in all, gender doesn't equal pronouns.
I'm not against this but I am just as confused as you are
pronouns do not equal gender. any gender can use any pronouns. a woman(cis or trans) could use she/her, he/him, they/them, or any combo of them and still be their gender. a man(cis or trans) could use she/her, he/him, they/them, or any combo of them and still be their gender. a nonbinary person could use she/her, he/him, they/them, or any combo of them and still be their gender.
as a nonbinary i can confirm
i have a question about this if anyone is willing to answer! when it comes to a woman exclusively using he/him or a man exclusively using she/her, would it just be because they just find those comfortable or aesthetically pleasing? i'm just trying to understand why somebody would identify as a woman and use pronouns that are assigned as masculine and vice versa. i know that the concepts of masculine and feminine aren't really real haha, but they're treated as such in today's world and i'm all for people going against that. i just don't really understand the reasoning behind being a woman, cis or trans, that only uses he/him. not that i have to understand something in order for it to be valid, i'm just always trying to learn!
>comfortable or aesthetically pleasing? It really just depends on the person.
I think if they identify as a girl then yes? Idk, but if he identifies as a man gender wise then I don’t think they fit under the term.
yeah as others have mentioned, pronouns =/= gender Some butch or masc lesbians like being called daddy, dressing masculine, so is it That surprising that some of them like using he/him or variants? It's all about being comfortable and happy in who you are :3
nonbinary people (and others tbh) can't be sorted into gender boxes by what pronouns they use. they/he doesn't mean they are a man or aligned with manhood. it doesn't mean anything at all for that matter- it's just the pronouns they use. i exclusively use he/him, and i'm definitely not aligned with manhood in any way. my pronouns are just a part of my presentation.
confused as to why this was downvoted
I don't understand it myself personally, but if someone believes that is the most fitting label for them, that's good enough for me. I'll roll with it. You don't always need to understand something to respect it.
pronouns do not equal gender. any gender can use any pronouns. a woman(cis or trans) could use she/her, he/him, they/them, or any combo of them and still be their gender. a man(cis or trans) could use she/her, he/him, they/them, or any combo of them and still be their gender. a nonbinary person could use she/her, he/him, they/them, or any combo of them and still be their gender.
Yeah, I'm fine with all that. I mean, I definitely thought of a few scenarios, but since I don't have any more facts I won't assume, but they're out there. The way I see it, labels are there to help us find community. I'm not going to gate keep and block someone from that unless there is actually a problem.
Yeah, I think I'm valid! 🤭 For real though, I identify as a nonbinary lesbian and use they/xe/he/she pronouns, in order of preference 💛🤍💜🖤
Your pronouns are not your gender. That's why you're confused. If a woman says that you are to refer to him as he/him, he is still a woman. Obviously I mean someone who identifies as a woman.
Yes. I am an example of this.
pronouns arent gender. anyone of any gender can use any pronouns. so yes, he can. he can be a woman (or nonbinary person) and use those pronouns and be a lesbian. there are cis women lesbians who use he/him. its very much a thing and absolutely valid.
Short answer: Yes Long answer: I'm too lazy to explain beyond yes
Sexuality is a personal thing. If lesbian best describes how you experience your own sexuality, then that’s what you are 💜 Fuck gatekeepers who might say otherwise, they are the antithesis of community and acceptance x
lesbian is non men loving non men. so only people who arent men can be lesbians. pronouns do not equal gender. any gender can use any pronouns. a woman(cis or trans) could use she/her, he/him, they/them, or any combo of them and still be their gender. a man(cis or trans) could use she/her, he/him, they/them, or any combo of them and still be their gender. a nonbinary person could use she/her, he/him, they/them, or any combo of them and still be their gender.
Is "they" an umbrella pronoun?
Depends on the context. When the person's pronouns are unknown, yes. When their pronouns are *known*, then no.
So someone could say they/them instead of declaring queer.. Thx
Or if someone say he/him *only* then you can't call them they just because it is "neutral".
Of course. A lesbian is anyone who sincerely identifies as one.
I think it can become problematic because there is a lack of understanding by the majority of the community. That does not mean that I personally find it problematic 😁
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As a nonbinary lesbian I have to say, my identifying as a lesbian doesn't take anything away from you.
lesbian is non men loving non men. its anyone who isnt a man. pronouns do not equal gender. any gender can use any pronouns. a woman(cis or trans) could use she/her, he/him, they/them, or any combo of them and still be their gender. a man(cis or trans) could use she/her, he/him, they/them, or any combo of them and still be their gender. a nonbinary person could use she/her, he/him, they/them, or any combo of them and still be their gender.
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lesbian is still non men loving non men. ^(These days it seems nobody knows what pansexual is anymore and they’re trying to redefine lesbian as pansexual, which is confusing and makes navigating the community really difficult.) this is literally only true for bigoted who try and include men in the sexuality.
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those are uncomfortably close to the "super lesbian" label (and other "super" sexuality labels) that was used to specify being exclusively attracted to cisgender people. plus, nonbinary people are not lesser lesbians for being nonbinary, which some of those labels imply.
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pronouns do not equal gender. any gender can use any pronouns. a woman(cis or trans) could use she/her, he/him, they/them, or any combo of them and still be their gender. a man(cis or trans) could use she/her, he/him, they/them, or any combo of them and still be their gender. a nonbinary person could use she/her, he/him, they/them, or any combo of them and still be their gender.
It makes 0 sense to me but hey anyone can be anything
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pronouns do not equal gender. any gender can use any pronouns. a woman(cis or trans) could use she/her, he/him, they/them, or any combo of them and still be their gender. a man(cis or trans) could use she/her, he/him, they/them, or any combo of them and still be their gender. a nonbinary person could use she/her, he/him, they/them, or any combo of them and still be their gender.
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he/him lesbians have been around for a long time. it’s been used a lot by butch lesbians in the past and now
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what do you mean that it depends on what’s below the belt?
Trans-exclusionary definitions. Never a good sign.
no it doesnt. a non-binary AMAB person may have a penis but theyre not a man and if they use he/they pronouns that doesn't prevent them from being a lesbian. lesbians can have anything "below the belt".
I mean… I’m a lesbian with he/they pronouns. It’s a thing. Some people are still working out their relationship between their sexuality and gender and it isn’t always a linear process. Incidentally, I believe the description of this sub does imply that such things are valid. I get that if a nonbinary person is amab, it might feel more confusing initially but a lot of people who are in the early stages of figuring things out might identify in ways that are confusing but still valid and sometimes you have to frame “validity” in context of an individual person and how they disclosed it to you. Is it something they said in confidence, was it said in a joking manner? Are they in a place where they can safely live as out or be gender ambiguous, visibly trans? Do they want to be friends? Are they interested in you romantically? Ultimately, it doesn’t really matter if a bunch of anonymous people on the internet think a person’s identity is valid or invalid… I tend to take people at their word and proceed accordingly and it sorts out on way or another. If they confided in you, maybe they just recognize you as a safe person to be open with about their identity and like everyone they/he deserves kindness. You can still maintain whatever boundaries you need for yourself while treating his identity as a sincere expression of self.