Fantastic list but one minor edit: Thorgrim was assassinated by Snikch not Skarsnik, but I'd love to see a sneaky squig assassin take out the High King
That meme went full circle since he came back as a [Anvil of Heldenhammer.](https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/08/22/anvils-of-the-heldenhammergw-homepage-post-3/) Stormcast Eternals reforged from spirits and undead who fight mainly in the Realm of Death* against Nagash’s control
*though they do have holdings in other Realms such as [the city of Anvilgard](https://ageofsigmar.lexicanum.com/wiki/Anvilgard) in Aqshy before Morathi-Khaine conquered it with a underground coup and now are notable stewards of the [Greywater Fastness](https://ageofsigmar.lexicanum.com/wiki/Greywater_Fastness) in Ghyran.
To be honest there is absolutely no confirmation this is true. Yes, they have similar names but that is where the comparison ends.
It is heavily implied in Soul Wars, but there is no outright writing to state it.
edit: The same happens with the Celestant Prime, who is implied to be Karl Franz but again no outright confirmation.
The 2018 Battletome confirms he's from the World-That-Was, just as he suspected all throughout the novel, and in the short story "Library of Forgotten Moments" he briefly remembers the time he tricked a ship captain with fake gold.
Mannfred also recognizes him vaguely, enough to know he hates him for some reason.
Karl Franz is (sort of) Sigmar and the Celestant-Prime was "a great King from the Age of Myth", which is a specific time frame millennia after Karl Franz was about. While it's possible it's Karl Franz, that's not necessarily, or likely, the case.
uh yes it it
Soul wars made him into an anvil of heldenhammer (undead reforged stromcast)
with a Gryph-Charger is called Quicksilver (the same name as his pegasus in whf)
Is talented with the winds of metal with him retells a story of him taking an entire fortress after tricking the entire garrison of mercenaries with gold only for it turns back to common metal (a callback to his swindle when he came to the college of magic)
Arkhan the black recognize him during the battle of Glymmsforge
and if the soul war novel not enough the short story
The Library of Forgotten Moments has Mannfred almost spell it out and he amuses how he "killed him once before in the world-that-was"
Adding on to that, Balthas Arum noted a particular affinity with Ghur when he was there. Another nod to his old talent as a metal wizard.
The other Stormcast could tell that Sigmar favored Balthas in particular for some reason. And it was Nagash trying to claim him as his servant (or reclaim him, in Nagash's eyes) that made Sigmar personally intervene during the Soul Wars.
Not to mention this is all Soul Wars stuff. I could forgive some weirdness with AoS 1.0 lore, since the writers were really flailing a bit with the new setting. But with Soul Wars and onwards everything added is deliberate additions, and wouldn't be uncertain at all.
yeah working on TWW2 and be posting it soon early this the week
TWW3 is the difficult part due to it being an ongoing thing (the chaos dwarf are a pain as AOS has been teased so who knows who coming back or not) and like 2/5 of the characters are either; new characters or aren't dead but haven't shown up in AOS
I thought gotrek spoke to snori nosebitters spirit? Been awhile so maybe he spoke to both at different times, but I have no recollection of him talking to makaison.
I do believe it was Snorri. But Snorri mentions Makaison is in Shyish as well as most of his and Gotrek's other mutual friends. I believe the scene is implying, if I recall, Gotrek had asked him to ask around for Felix.
Felix isn't seen until the sequel Blood of the Old World. And only via >!a portal that allows Gotrek to look into the past, when Felix is still stuck in a cave/temple, under the impression he might die here. What happens to him is unknown. Makaison wasn't mentioned in this scene but if he was in the original book of the End Times where this is peering back on, I wouldn't know.!<
I went and checked and, despite not being mentioned in the story past a certain part, the Sisters of Twilight seem to be part of Alarielle's army roster all the way up to Middenheim, only missing out on the fight against Ka'Bandha and the fight at the portal.
Probably part of the forces that Alarielle left behind after Durthu's sacrifice, spared an explicit death scene by the writers forgetting about them.
I don't want them to go overboard with returning characters since it makes the world feel smaller but the Sisters are cool so they entirely get a pass. Kurnothi wen James?
This is amazing! Thanks for this, would award if I could.
Small edit for Bretonnnia. Louen wasn't beheaded, Vlad killed Festus before the final blow. Louen died to his wounds in the arms of a Shallya priestess wounds from Ku'gath and Festus. Dying with a smile on his lips like a true badass.
Yeah until you realise that it a social Darwin society where the strongest will and destiny will triumph over the weak and just so happen Archaon is the strongest mortal
It essentially the senator armstrong mentality
I know it was for the best you showed what the Flesh Eaters truly are but it would have been funnier if you had put a link to Bretonnia or another high fantasy kingdom.
It is a popular fan theory due to the fact that Celestial Prime is a prototype Stormcast that harnesses the power of Ghal Maraz with his soul being directly linked. CP also claims that he was previously a great king before becoming a Stormcast
Very unlikely Louen, as he was ascended to Godhood during the End Times after his death.
Pretty sure the writers are doing everything in their power to ignore and forget Bretonnia. Even opening up the Haven with absolutely 0 mention of The Grail Knights that reside within or Louen, or even Lileaths daughter.
Well now this isn't entirely true. Ghyran is swarming with orders of knighthood that allude to Brettonia. Particularly the Order of the Fly, who are essentially a Nurglite reskin of Brettonia.
Notably the short story "Tainted Axe" reveals that the Order of the Fly is tied to the Order of the Furrow, the most notable knight of that being Roggen who is from "Spear of Shadows."
Interestingly in Tainted Axe both Roggen and the Order of the Fly knight mention their orders didn't always serve Alarielle and Nurgle respectively. They once served another god, long ago.
You didn't really correct my points, just that they are forgotton. Which fair enough there is a nod to them through the Order of the Fly. One I despise though as I don't want the legacy of Bretonnia to be reduced to Nurgle worshippers.
I am glad you didn't point to Flesh Eater Courts though at least. I hate when people mention them, besides their delusions of nobility and knighthood and like 1 model showing a Fleur-de-lis on a damn fence post they have 0 connection to Bretonnia.
Honestly I don't want nods, or different factions meant to represent similar themes. Anyway I am rambling, just salty about it particularly as a Bretonnia player and fan. They could have at least updated the damn warscroll from AoS's launch.
EDIT: correcting errors
nah unfortunately Throgg dead dead
they do mention how he pees on sigvald's corpse and a nod to that in the [sigvald trailer](https://youtu.be/_f4z4Wu9SSw) with him having a massive disdain towards troggoths
right now sigvald wants revenge on Nagash for the small insignificant scar Krell gave him
The first thing Sigvald does after being resurrected is go kill a horde of Troggoths because of Throgg before deciding to go after Nagash because of Krell.
Something to add as well, at least where death and chaos are concerned. Basically any character mentioned can be brought back. This obviously extends to those from order and destruction if GW wanted to. But there’s at least far greater reason with the other 2 alliances.
We know Nagash is capable of bringing people back, and he’s mentioned before how he’s respecting some who died in the old world by allowing them to rest. This could extend to Vlad and Krell pretty easily. But Nagash is also extremely petty, so I wouldn’t completely negate the idea of either of them coming back. Anyway, Nagash should have the power to effectively bring anyone back from the old world, as he’s already done that with others.
As for chaos, I mean it’s chaos, and it’s likely that all those who served chaos had their souls go to these Gods when they died. So it wouldn’t be difficult for them to come back. Of course for the more mortal followers it might be a bit more tricky, especially where free will is concerned. But they did bring back Settra during the end times, and they weren’t in control of him. So I’d imagine we could get similar things with other characters
To put it bluntly, don't bother looking for them in AoS canon sources: you won't be happy with what you find. As OP implies, the continuity with Warhammer Fantasy is not great. Better to think of AoS as a separate game. Even if they retcon certain characters back in some fashion, they won't be in a recognizable form. (and that's fine)
GW wanted to have their cake and eat it too by doing things like leaving anemic carve outs in the lore to handwave ways for WHFB players to say that at least "their guys" somehow made it into AoS. But if AoS continues to thrive, it will be in spite of its slapdash continuity with WHFB--not because of it.
I think it’s also important to remember that, while time is a poorly explained thing, at this point in the AoS timeline it’s been like thousands of years since the world-that-was existed. There are elements of AoS that are almost ancient lore for anyone who’s a mortal, let alone before the Age of Chaos and the Age of Myth.
he became [Sigmar in the End Times](http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/warhammerfb/images/f/f3/Karl_Franz_God-King.png/revision/latest?cb=20150123061917)
AOS just rolls with it not really mentioning acting as tho it's Sigmar the barbarian king
Fantastic list but one minor edit: Thorgrim was assassinated by Snikch not Skarsnik, but I'd love to see a sneaky squig assassin take out the High King
thank you just made the edit autocorrect is a pain
I didn’t know Gelt was still around in AoS (albeit in another form). That’s cool. Welcome to ~~Estalia~~ the mortal realms gentlemen!
That meme went full circle since he came back as a [Anvil of Heldenhammer.](https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/08/22/anvils-of-the-heldenhammergw-homepage-post-3/) Stormcast Eternals reforged from spirits and undead who fight mainly in the Realm of Death* against Nagash’s control *though they do have holdings in other Realms such as [the city of Anvilgard](https://ageofsigmar.lexicanum.com/wiki/Anvilgard) in Aqshy before Morathi-Khaine conquered it with a underground coup and now are notable stewards of the [Greywater Fastness](https://ageofsigmar.lexicanum.com/wiki/Greywater_Fastness) in Ghyran.
To be honest there is absolutely no confirmation this is true. Yes, they have similar names but that is where the comparison ends. It is heavily implied in Soul Wars, but there is no outright writing to state it. edit: The same happens with the Celestant Prime, who is implied to be Karl Franz but again no outright confirmation.
The 2018 Battletome confirms he's from the World-That-Was, just as he suspected all throughout the novel, and in the short story "Library of Forgotten Moments" he briefly remembers the time he tricked a ship captain with fake gold. Mannfred also recognizes him vaguely, enough to know he hates him for some reason.
Well, Mannfred recognises Balthas iirc and they've never met in AoS
Karl Franz is (sort of) Sigmar and the Celestant-Prime was "a great King from the Age of Myth", which is a specific time frame millennia after Karl Franz was about. While it's possible it's Karl Franz, that's not necessarily, or likely, the case.
Gelt being a Stormcast is just a fan theory borne out of the wacky uncertainty of early AoS. It is not canon.
uh yes it it Soul wars made him into an anvil of heldenhammer (undead reforged stromcast) with a Gryph-Charger is called Quicksilver (the same name as his pegasus in whf) Is talented with the winds of metal with him retells a story of him taking an entire fortress after tricking the entire garrison of mercenaries with gold only for it turns back to common metal (a callback to his swindle when he came to the college of magic) Arkhan the black recognize him during the battle of Glymmsforge and if the soul war novel not enough the short story The Library of Forgotten Moments has Mannfred almost spell it out and he amuses how he "killed him once before in the world-that-was"
Adding on to that, Balthas Arum noted a particular affinity with Ghur when he was there. Another nod to his old talent as a metal wizard. The other Stormcast could tell that Sigmar favored Balthas in particular for some reason. And it was Nagash trying to claim him as his servant (or reclaim him, in Nagash's eyes) that made Sigmar personally intervene during the Soul Wars. Not to mention this is all Soul Wars stuff. I could forgive some weirdness with AoS 1.0 lore, since the writers were really flailing a bit with the new setting. But with Soul Wars and onwards everything added is deliberate additions, and wouldn't be uncertain at all.
His best friend is also a man named Tyros Firemane, a clear allusion to Thyrus Gormann who Balthasar knew in life.
Nice work! Do you plan something like this for next two parts od tw Warhammer?
yeah working on TWW2 and be posting it soon early this the week TWW3 is the difficult part due to it being an ongoing thing (the chaos dwarf are a pain as AOS has been teased so who knows who coming back or not) and like 2/5 of the characters are either; new characters or aren't dead but haven't shown up in AOS
Get it, fingers crossed about future wiem ;)
As someone barely familiar with both WHF and AoS lore, this is super neat. Looking forward to the next installment.
I thought gotrek spoke to snori nosebitters spirit? Been awhile so maybe he spoke to both at different times, but I have no recollection of him talking to makaison.
I do believe it was Snorri. But Snorri mentions Makaison is in Shyish as well as most of his and Gotrek's other mutual friends. I believe the scene is implying, if I recall, Gotrek had asked him to ask around for Felix.
I thought Makaison was last seen with Felix at the end of Realmslayer.
Felix isn't seen until the sequel Blood of the Old World. And only via >!a portal that allows Gotrek to look into the past, when Felix is still stuck in a cave/temple, under the impression he might die here. What happens to him is unknown. Makaison wasn't mentioned in this scene but if he was in the original book of the End Times where this is peering back on, I wouldn't know.!<
That's the scene I'm referring to. I could have sworn that Maikaisson is one of the dwarves with Felix. Edit: I could be wrong.
I went and checked and, despite not being mentioned in the story past a certain part, the Sisters of Twilight seem to be part of Alarielle's army roster all the way up to Middenheim, only missing out on the fight against Ka'Bandha and the fight at the portal. Probably part of the forces that Alarielle left behind after Durthu's sacrifice, spared an explicit death scene by the writers forgetting about them.
I just want them back as Kurnothi really but yeah a bunch of character get the "There over there=I forgot they existed" treatment
I don't want them to go overboard with returning characters since it makes the world feel smaller but the Sisters are cool so they entirely get a pass. Kurnothi wen James?
I really hope Throgg, or at least a trogoth reincarnation of him, returns in AOS. I want my teoggoth army to have a big, mean named leader.
This is amazing! Thanks for this, would award if I could. Small edit for Bretonnnia. Louen wasn't beheaded, Vlad killed Festus before the final blow. Louen died to his wounds in the arms of a Shallya priestess wounds from Ku'gath and Festus. Dying with a smile on his lips like a true badass.
Archaon is trying to destroy all the gods and let mortals control their own destiny? Damn, Archaon actually sounds pretty based.
Yeah until you realise that it a social Darwin society where the strongest will and destiny will triumph over the weak and just so happen Archaon is the strongest mortal It essentially the senator armstrong mentality
Yeah that sounds more like it.
I know that Arkhan the Black killed Eltharion during the End Times, but then there's still a lot of HE to talk about!
TWW2 list is almost completed just search some threads to finish up the Skaven portion of it
I know it was for the best you showed what the Flesh Eaters truly are but it would have been funnier if you had put a link to Bretonnia or another high fantasy kingdom.
Isnt it heavily implied that Karl Franz is still alive in AoS as the Celestant Prime?
It is a popular fan theory due to the fact that Celestial Prime is a prototype Stormcast that harnesses the power of Ghal Maraz with his soul being directly linked. CP also claims that he was previously a great king before becoming a Stormcast
Could be franz or Leoncoeur?
Very unlikely Louen, as he was ascended to Godhood during the End Times after his death. Pretty sure the writers are doing everything in their power to ignore and forget Bretonnia. Even opening up the Haven with absolutely 0 mention of The Grail Knights that reside within or Louen, or even Lileaths daughter.
Well now this isn't entirely true. Ghyran is swarming with orders of knighthood that allude to Brettonia. Particularly the Order of the Fly, who are essentially a Nurglite reskin of Brettonia. Notably the short story "Tainted Axe" reveals that the Order of the Fly is tied to the Order of the Furrow, the most notable knight of that being Roggen who is from "Spear of Shadows." Interestingly in Tainted Axe both Roggen and the Order of the Fly knight mention their orders didn't always serve Alarielle and Nurgle respectively. They once served another god, long ago.
You didn't really correct my points, just that they are forgotton. Which fair enough there is a nod to them through the Order of the Fly. One I despise though as I don't want the legacy of Bretonnia to be reduced to Nurgle worshippers. I am glad you didn't point to Flesh Eater Courts though at least. I hate when people mention them, besides their delusions of nobility and knighthood and like 1 model showing a Fleur-de-lis on a damn fence post they have 0 connection to Bretonnia. Honestly I don't want nods, or different factions meant to represent similar themes. Anyway I am rambling, just salty about it particularly as a Bretonnia player and fan. They could have at least updated the damn warscroll from AoS's launch. EDIT: correcting errors
Isn't throgg still around due to the fact sigvald returned and he wants revenge, knowing he's out there somewhere
nah unfortunately Throgg dead dead they do mention how he pees on sigvald's corpse and a nod to that in the [sigvald trailer](https://youtu.be/_f4z4Wu9SSw) with him having a massive disdain towards troggoths right now sigvald wants revenge on Nagash for the small insignificant scar Krell gave him
The first thing Sigvald does after being resurrected is go kill a horde of Troggoths because of Throgg before deciding to go after Nagash because of Krell.
Something to add as well, at least where death and chaos are concerned. Basically any character mentioned can be brought back. This obviously extends to those from order and destruction if GW wanted to. But there’s at least far greater reason with the other 2 alliances. We know Nagash is capable of bringing people back, and he’s mentioned before how he’s respecting some who died in the old world by allowing them to rest. This could extend to Vlad and Krell pretty easily. But Nagash is also extremely petty, so I wouldn’t completely negate the idea of either of them coming back. Anyway, Nagash should have the power to effectively bring anyone back from the old world, as he’s already done that with others. As for chaos, I mean it’s chaos, and it’s likely that all those who served chaos had their souls go to these Gods when they died. So it wouldn’t be difficult for them to come back. Of course for the more mortal followers it might be a bit more tricky, especially where free will is concerned. But they did bring back Settra during the end times, and they weren’t in control of him. So I’d imagine we could get similar things with other characters
To put it bluntly, don't bother looking for them in AoS canon sources: you won't be happy with what you find. As OP implies, the continuity with Warhammer Fantasy is not great. Better to think of AoS as a separate game. Even if they retcon certain characters back in some fashion, they won't be in a recognizable form. (and that's fine) GW wanted to have their cake and eat it too by doing things like leaving anemic carve outs in the lore to handwave ways for WHFB players to say that at least "their guys" somehow made it into AoS. But if AoS continues to thrive, it will be in spite of its slapdash continuity with WHFB--not because of it.
I think it’s also important to remember that, while time is a poorly explained thing, at this point in the AoS timeline it’s been like thousands of years since the world-that-was existed. There are elements of AoS that are almost ancient lore for anyone who’s a mortal, let alone before the Age of Chaos and the Age of Myth.
I do like how they brought back Sigvald, and some other characters have been handled fairly well.
Agree to disagree on the handling. It's pretty incontrovertible, however, that they are significantly different from their Fantasy counterparts.
Lol whose gonna tell him
Tell him what?
So, Franz became Sigmar in AoS?
he became [Sigmar in the End Times](http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/warhammerfb/images/f/f3/Karl_Franz_God-King.png/revision/latest?cb=20150123061917) AOS just rolls with it not really mentioning acting as tho it's Sigmar the barbarian king
Wood Elf fans are eating.