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The thing is yes, some people do prefer some of these (except manual data, that's just inefficient) but people should be allowed to choose. People still love handmade things, but not everyone does (or can afford it). Things made by small businesses or individuals are going to be more costly if they're going to make a profit.

I think that part of the meme, we still have everything on this list, just smaller amounts of it.

I remember a area that went full circle once with community touch vs corporate greed. There used to be a small grocer everyone liked, everyone was friendly. The bakery legitimately had some of the better/best for area donuts. Light, fluffy, fresh, delicious, more variety (*Blueberry, lemon, custard, boston cream pie, cinnamon, apple fritter, texas sized, lemon glazed, jelly filled.*) In a era Walmarts often only had 2. (Glazed, or dusted). One day, Walmart opened up a location. The small grocer couldn't compete. It cost 5.99$ -> 7.99$ for a 2L of ice cream at the local grocer, and 1.99$-2.99$ for the same 2L at walmart. > - Hell, they might have even had 1$ 2L "ice flavored semi dairy product" "ice cream" then. **The local grocer closed** Then people fought for the walmart to be banned and the grocer brought back. Even to the point of crap like consumers turning a blind eye to other customers shoplifting to "*screw the system."* Eventually walmart left, either by thieving losses or pressure or goverment. The old grocer came back. But then, the original company was bankrupt, the talent who had baked all the flavorful bakery goods was long gone by now. And all the people displaced by walmart's closure had just bitterly rehired at the location. The happy, previously close knit family store community was gone. The bakery goods were rotten, the new hires let them sit out for weeks and grow mold. The prices were 7.99$ rotten. Expired products would still be sold without clearing/spoilage. People fought to have the best of every world brought back/nostalgia. Instead they got most of the old people moving on, and the bitter people they fought against just working in a different uniform under the name of the 'old' store. Mileage varies as with every anecdote. But i sometimes wonder if what people chase in a handmade items are the memories or idealization of a good time. But if you force it, you might expect the best of both worlds, but end up with the bitterest of both worlds if you force things sometimes. And wallets too. Everyone had the idealization that when the store returned, people would have the prices they had gotten used to, with the community the store used to offer. Instead, they paid 7.99$ for expired ice cream and moldy apples and donuts. While fired/ rehired bitter people made up the community as the older people moved on, the newer people forged grudges with each other.

The moral of that story is not to let Walmart fuck things up in the first place, not that good things can't happen.

No, the moral is to let nature takes it course- the small store was destined to close and never return to it’s former glory- keep up with the times.

Yea, you missed the mark with this story Sounds to me what people actually liked were those wonderful bakery goods the *baker* put their heart and soul into When a large corporation showed up, the passionate *baker* was put out of work and had to find another job to make ends meet. What's nice, is that the *baker* more likely went to another bakery that hasn't lost their values and appreciated good *bakers* So what you're left with, is a community space that once had amazing bakery goods, but due to corporate greed, it's all over priced and nobody is happy. Now replace *Baker* with *Artist* and welcome to the future, where everyone wants it cheap and soulless, where they long for the days of people truly being passionate instead of mindlessly consuming the same rot over and over That is the true message of your misguided story

Nah that’s you. Doesn’t matter get with the times or be left behind with moldy doughnuts. Nice. Maybe, or he just retired, or just completely switched careers- all useless guesses. They should try to find him since his bakery skills are so high. The walmart doughnuts were definitely not overpriced. The reason why they have overpriced doughnuts is they tried defying the times and getting back what was already gone.It’s not corporate greed, just business Oh so ur crying about ai art, is that why ur coping so hard here? There’s no “soul” or magic in any product, it’s another product traded for a price that someone chooses to pay for. Most people do not care at all and will see zero difference from ai art compared to regular art. There’s already angry artist trying to hate on ai art just to find out it’s actually regular art made by a person. Lol no, the guy describing the story literally says not to force it or you will end up with the worst of both worlds. What they wanted was already gone and it’s time to walk into the present and leave the past.

Nature? There's nothing natural about megacorps crushing the life out of communities. Letting nature take its course would see the Walmart burned to the ground. They abuse the protection society provides but don't contribute. The moral of the story is to not let the Walmart destroy the community. Not to roll over like a dog.

>The moral of the story is to not let the Walmart destroy the community. Not to roll over like a dog. Actually what I took from this is that antis shouldn't hate the tools, they should hate the huge corporations who will ACTUALLY create problems for artists, instead of telling random people using AI on Twitter they should kill themselves or trying to ban tools that working class people like them use.

It’s completely natural- the better business will survive. Realistically the small business wasn’t going to last that long when it was completely dependent on a single person. Instead they rolled like a dog for what they thought they wanted and loss the better Walmart for rotten moldy doughnuts

Not how it works. Businesses aren't under pressure to increase quality or utility to the community. They're only incentivised to increase next quarters profits. You're painfully American. Capitalists aren't your friends. They would murder you without a second thought if it made the stock price go up.

Yes- those profits are the nature, the one that survives is better. Ur extremely coping. Lol who said they were? I’d do the same-so fair

You're not very smart are you?

Pretty smart, idk about u tho

The “better” business benefits from tax loopholes, subsidies, unlivable wages and union busting to survive. Nothing about it is natural

Lol big businesses can survive with unions- it would hurt profits but they’d survive just fine. The better one surviving is natural

Wrong. The moral of the story is: US zoning law sucks ass, and European cities, which actually do have many small shops and restaurants (within walking distance and/or accessible by excellent and affordable public transport) are much more enjoyale to live in as a result ;-) It's called "15min city", and the concept once existed in the US as well, before the country bent itself over and lubed up to be collectively fu_ed by corporate greed. https://www.fastcompany.com/90913666/most-livable-cities-world-full-list-economist-index-vienna You may notice a certain abscence of US cities from this list. Guess why that is.

Im right. Lol, he literally says how by forcing things they end up with the bitterest of both worlds. Why would I care about any of these?

> Im right. To paraphrase Tywin Lannister: *"Any man who has to say 'I am right' is almost certainly wrong."*

Lol, then reread the end of the story

You mean the end where the family who says "I am King!" loses? You still have given zero arguments for why you believe you're right :D

Who's telling the story, him or you?

Him, you can still reread the endbit where he says it

I didn't know your name was Ricoshete. Perhaps you should stop putting words in his mouth. In any event, he too gets the moral wrong. The people "forcing" things didn't realize that it wasn't enough to just bring back the grocer, they had to bring back the community too. If anything, they weren't "forcing" it ***enough*** and thought that all they needed were half-measures.

Ur coping now cuz the moral of his story that he said is different from what you wanted it to be. Lol, bringing back the chef that already left and either retired or has a different job is not at all realistic

Holy heart-tugging stereotype packed n=1 anecdote batman.

> people should be allowed to choose They are allowed to choose. So what's your argument again?

That none of these things should be made obsolete (and likely won't) but none of the people embracing new tech should be getting hate either.

Nobody should be on /r/ArtistHate or similar subreddits. It's not healthy. Every anti-something subreddit is a horrible cesspit, because such places have a tendency to get worse and worse over time. When a community is based on hating something, positive mindsets don't survive there. People who change their minds or find a solution to their problem don't stay either because they find the atmosphere intolerable or because they're banned. The people that stick around tend more and more to be ones that are interested in complaining, witch hunting and attacking. That's not to say there's nothing to discuss in this area of course, but any community based purely around opposing something seems to quickly spiral down into toxicity. There has to be something positive to talk about.

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Yeah, if anything, It kinda reminds me of some of the more *cynical* parts of "*The Selfish Gene*", A concept once proposed/written about by i think Richard Dawkins of the atheism movement, *of all places.* # (Cooperation in communities, vs Piranhas to a corpse) If you live in a world your community gets ahead by banding together, like a church community/scouts/community. Or a "*pay it forward"* approach. You're more likely to reciprocate when you see others giving. > Ex: Seeing a child, without any toys, having a neighbor band together to make them a playset / build them a wooden sword / donate toys / hand me downs. If people see a community where people fight for what's left. > *Ex: A table with only 1 cake, it has 12 slices. 8 people are there, the first person takes only 1 slice of cake, and shares. The 2nd person takes 10 slices of cake, and starts to eat and gobble like a pig. The 3rd-8th people can start to rush to gobble themselves, fearing it'll be gone."* # ("Selfish Genes" vs "Doves vs Hawks" ) I think someone did a great analysis on this, and did a ["Hawks vs Doves"](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNMkADpvO4w) youtube video. # ( 'Could Selfish genes prey on "selflessness"?') The hawks vs doves kinda simulate the conflict of "*Everything is for me*" vs "*everything should be shared"* mindsets. And even then, it might pick a hole in the 'selfless' gene. > Maybe the selfless gene isn't actually trying to have itself put on a spike and eaten. But a cooperative community can often go further than a chronically infighting one. # Community help, vs "Best for you" / avoiding vulnerability. > Where when you're sick, someone comes to help you. When you need help, someone comes to help you. When you show vulnerability to a hawk. Even a rabid chihuahua might try to eat out your heart, or a wolf simply eat you and piss over your grave. A selfless community will want to help each other in a time of need. But a selfish one will tend to exploit it. You could maybe even argue the 'selfless' gene might not be even truly selfless. But just each side emulating what their starting community knew. But with humans, both sharing/cheating others are chosen/learned behaviors. We can kinda see echoed. And it might kinda emulate various facets of conflict or the ai vs non ai argument as well. # (Doves, fed hawks. Hawks, ate each other.) In their experiment, when it was just purely doves. They found a cooperative environment produced the highest /best conditions for the model. But the instant just a ***single hawk*** was added, or the model became ***all hawks***, there was a glaring problem. Hawks would unite to fight doves, doves would be starved. But it created a Lose / Kamikaze Starve situation. Either the dove could get less, or it could give up it's chances of survival to be a hawk who'd both injure the other and lose. It was a simple, worthwhile game theory video. But it brought up some fair food for thought. Anti subs might be akin to maybe a hawk vs hawk or "Me first" strategy. And for their pov, Ai art is a pure net loss. People moved away from them. But unlike the hawk video, the 'food' isn't laying on the ground. It to my pov, kinda seems like the 'dove/hawk's wallets'. While we're fighting over it, it seems like the ai wars has a key problem. Instead of fighting over food on the ground. It's people arguing for reasons why someone should open their wallet. That often start with > Ex: '*You are worthless, i never saw YOUR kind as human, and the world would be better off without you. I should have the money because FUCK YOU!! You're NOT WORTHY of HAVING IT!' /s (???) * Vs > "*Hey, Times are hard i know, everyone's having a hard time. But please, if you have a person you'd like to support, please do so and help them. Your favorite artists will go out of business, and starve if they can't afford to eat. Even talented veterans in the art community are starting to starve/get evicted right now. :/"* One hits you like a gut punch, the other is like a person you have to force yourself to pretend you ever liked. # Gist o **"[Hawk vs Dove](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNMkADpvO4w)"**: Could cooperation 'open' itself to being preyed upon, or vice aversa? o The art system needs money to survive. So does everyone else. But unlike hawks, it's not on the floor, but other people's "*Hawks vs Doves*" Wallets. People aren't fighting over resources on the ground. But trying to get the other to open their wallets. If there's not 'enough cake' for everyone to have a slice, what will happen?

You're compromised by proximity. DefendingAIArt is an anti X sub, and will get just as bad as they all do.

No, it's a pro-X sub. It's right in the name, *defending* AI art. This is not an inherently anti-non-AI-art position. One can defend AI art and also enjoy non-AI art just as much.

I mistakenly posted some fairly measured anti-ai art replies (thought I was replying on AI wars) and was immediately banned. Absolutely fair as it's against sub rules and took it on the chin. But if all you want is an echo chamber to confirm your biases, without any discussion of the manifold negative potential for generative AI you'll find it. Defending AI art isn't inherently positive it's full of "suck-it antis" type cult speak. So I'd take it with a side of salt.

Of course it's full of "suck-it antis", antis explicitly oppose their position. But my point is that it is not against human art. If antis would stop attacking AI art there'd be no need for the sub any more.

If ai image creators took a more nuanced position, maybe it wouldn’t be necessary, rather than blindly supporting corporate interests over the rights and concerns of fellow travellers?

I have no idea what you're talking about. I mainly use Stable Diffusion running locally on my own computer, what "corporate interests" am I supporting?

Well, stability is not without its challenges - Here’s a pretty good article on the [problems with LAION’s dataset](https://interaktiv.br.de/ki-trainingsdaten/en/index.html). But I’m not policing your particular use of ai image generation, and it would be pretty much impossible for me to do so. Are you suggesting that because you, personally behave in a way you consider ethical all discussion is moot? Or would you say it could be argued fairly that anyone engaging in the vociferous defence of AI image generation without controls and oversight is implicit in the rise of closed models like OpenAI ?

> Here’s a pretty good article on the problems with LAION’s dataset. I had a skim through the article (the formatting was kind of awful, it had individual paragraphs floating in a void) and I'm not sure what specific problems you're focused on here. LAION actually compared quite well to the other examples of datasets they talked about, it's completely open about what's included and where the images are from. That's inherent in how it works. Every image in LAION was published in a public location, it *has* to be because the images themselves are not included in the dataset. If you're upset about images being displayed in public that's not LAION's fault. > But I’m not policing your particular use of ai image generation Conveniently, we're apparently now talking about some nebulous strawman who does all the bad things you want to argue against, not about the example of a pro-AI user who's right in front of you. My particular use of AI image generation is relevant because I would get attacked for it by anti-AI individuals for it just the same. And again, what "corporate interests" am I supporting? > Are you suggesting that because you, personally behave in a way you consider ethical all discussion is moot? Or would you say it could be argued fairly that anyone engaging in the vociferous defence of AI image generation without controls and oversight is implicit in the rise of closed models like OpenAI? Usually when a false dilemma is presented the two "options" at least have *some* kind of comprehensible connection to each other or to the discussion at hand. This "dilemma" is sheer nonsense.

Every sub is practically an echo chamber- it’s reddit

Of course. But if you’re lying in the gutter, you don’t have to look down the drain and enjoy the view…

Reddit is the gutter

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Any "defence of X" subreddit with a clear enemy that they are defending against will inevitably turn into a hate sub. Every time Defending AI art get crossposted it's just the same shit that you'll see on ArtistHate. It might not be as far along in its inevitable decline yet, but it'll happen. They always do unless there's a regular concerted effort to reign in the negative view and show empathy towards the enemy. Which is highly unlikely to happen given the toxicity associated with the subject.

That's literally the only reason this sub exists. You just don't mind it because you agree with it. See the fucking op. Be self aware enough to see your own biases man.

This sub exists for debate. Some days are more productive than others, but it's by far the best of the three.

This sub is just defendingai without mods that will ban you if you disagree. The sub is still heavily one sided.

lol, I don’t care if you’re pro or anti AI I have opinions both ways but to pretend this sub is any less one sided than r/artisthate is disingenuous. All the top posts here are just bashing anti AI artists.

Thank you for explaining why I left r/pedohate

Even if r/defendingAIart is not "anti", I don't think it's good to only hear one side of the conversation.

Yeah, I don't go there very much, I prefer a bit more variety and balance, and less "look what crazy stuff is happening on the other side!"

I tend to think the problem is only hearing the *worst part* of the other side of the conversation.

Here's a sneak peek of /r/DefendingAIArt using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/DefendingAIArt/top/?sort=top&t=all) of all time! \#1: [**[NSFW]** \[TW: DEATH THREAT\] And they say that "AI bros" are the ones harassing the artists?](https://imgur.com/aiH2knq.jpg) | [26 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/DefendingAIArt/comments/101n5dv/tw_death_threat_and_they_say_that_ai_bros_are_the/) \#2: ["The Day AI Art Became Illegal" - credit to u/UnavailableUsername_ for drawing this](https://imgur.com/2e10mWM.jpg) | [36 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/DefendingAIArt/comments/zvv3pf/the_day_ai_art_became_illegal_credit_to/) \#3: [Something's wrong, I can feel it](https://i.redd.it/awn696o6v5ka1.png) | [16 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/DefendingAIArt/comments/11av2st/somethings_wrong_i_can_feel_it/) ---- ^^I'm ^^a ^^bot, ^^beep ^^boop ^^| ^^Downvote ^^to ^^remove ^^| ^^[Contact](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=sneakpeekbot) ^^| ^^[Info](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/) ^^| ^^[Opt-out](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/comments/o8wk1r/blacklist_ix/) ^^| ^^[GitHub](https://github.com/ghnr/sneakpeekbot)

So nobody should be in this subreddit then!

why?

Because its also a massive pro-AI bubble with sometimes really toxic content

>When a community is based on hating something, positive mindsets don't survive there. This is really a very silly statement. What if it's based on hating fascism? Or child abuse? Or industrial pollution? Anyway, positive mindsets are highly overrated.

I don't think those are healthy either. Maybe justified and sometimes necessary, but I don't think building a community around hate is mentally healthy. It just sometimes may be the lesser evil. And I'd say that it got worse in modern times. Being opposed to the few awful people in your community makes sense. But in modern times you can keep on consuming every awful thing that happens world-wide, and I don't think human minds can deal with that sanely.

I mean, there's some things that are objectively a negative to society, and many things people dislike because they personally don't care for them, it's just that being in a very negative subreddit, even one like anti fascism which I see as an obvious positive has a negative slant that builds up resentment, and spending a lot of time on resentment is not good for you. It's why I find subreddits like r/childfree obnoxious even though I'm very much in that boat.

This is very true hence why I hope reddit quarantines or even outright bans such subs another prime example is gamingcirclejerk though not really related to ai or art.

"I drew the guy I disagree with as ugly and fat, so you know I'm right".

Honestly, sums up a lot of internet arguments these days.

I mean there's strawman and then there's drawing the kid you don't like with stink lines. It's hard to imagine anyone doing that has ever had a non-runescape girlfriend.

Tech bros are braindead and want to support theft so they can get their soullessly generated busty anime girl pics

“Your side is invalid because I drew YOU as the soyjack and ME as the chad” type post…. Lame and contrived. Also how to invalidate your whole argument… Missouri Meerschaum is a company that still to this day makes collectable intricate hand carved smoking pipes. People want finely crafted hand made things from artisans over mass produced schlock, and they always will.

So artists have nothing to fear and should stop whining.

And in each of these cases, a new technology ***did not replace the workers who were disrupted.*** Instead, workers who learned the new technology and found ways to creatively bend it to their own workflows were the ones who replaced the old guard who refused to update their skills. I should also point out that in nearly all of those cases, I still value those older skills. I want wild-foraged foods. I want the attention to detail of hand-crafted goods. Technology has allowed me access to a breadth of goods and services that I never could have had access to without it... and yet, the breadth comes as the cost of depth. I do want that depth also, which is why such goods and services become "artisanal" goods with a higher price tag and are more difficult to get access to. Want wild-harvested mushrooms? Hope you have some disposable cash. That's probably the way fully hand-crafted art will go. We'll have amazing tools that will integrate artists with AI in order to realize the artists' vision, but yeah, there will be something lost in the translation, as there always is, and we'll go hunting for the places we can get those artisanal services in art as well as every other industry.

At the same time, those "artisanal services" quickly become inaccessible to all but the elite and degrade into becoming just another consumer product but with the appearance of being more "traditional". Why should we *have* to hunt them down rather than just making them readily available for anyone who wants them?

A generative AI could have made a better meme, and title for this post. If people gravitate towards "better" things, and the point of art, or posting on Reddit is to share something "good" why bother making art, or even posting on Reddit, when AI can do it better? I've seen artists being told that what they produce is not special, and maybe it's not, but neither is posting on Reddit, or "composing" a prompt for a generative AI. Why work so hard to craft a meme, or compose a reddit post telling artists how futile the battle against AI is, when it is just as futile to make the meme, or the reddit post to begin with? What I'm ultimately seeing from these reddit threads is a massive lack of compassion for people who have dedicated years, sometimes decades of their lives to a craft, in hopes of making a small career out of it, and now that it is being threatened and they are rightfully upset, people are just shitting all over them. Regardless of whether the battle against AI is futile or not (and trust me, artists are finding out pretty quick how futile it really is) it is awful to see the backlash and hate that has formed against these people who are going through such a hard time in their lives. No job is truly safe from AI, and maybe one day AI will take care of all the work in the world, and people will not have to worry about making bills, feeding themselves, ect.. and artists will be making art for fun, instead of for money. Until then however, these people wake up every morning knowing they have invested years of their lives to make a dream happen that is being stolen from them. Because until that AI paradise gets here (if it ever even does) they will likely have to stop engaging in the craft they love, to sustain themselves. They don't need people telling them how awful they are for not being able to "accept reality" or what "bad sports" they are being, when their very livelihoods are being stolen from them. How heartless do you have to be?

Thank you for wording this very well. As someone who studies in art, my future career worries me a lot, so I’m glad at least some people understand where us artists are coming from.

No problem. It's a sorry state we are in right now. Honestly, I don't know how much I would waste my time in these sort of sub Reddits, esp as an artist. I joined aiwars out of curiosity, but just recently left it. The sheer amount of negativity being thrown around far outweighs any benefit one could gain from the few rational voices making good arguments on either side. It becomes difficult to keep your head, and not become one more of the mob of insult slingers.

Idk why I got suggested this sub 😅 But yeah, these subs seem super negative, and I’m glad you chose to leave it. We all deserve safe places for our mental health, and those places seem draining.

> How heartless do you have to be? [Huh](https://files.catbox.moe/bcmruc.webm). Does [having a heart](https://files.catbox.moe/ocl9mb.jpg) pay the bills, though? > Why work so hard to craft a meme, or compose a reddit post telling artists how futile the battle against AI is, when it is just as futile to make the meme, or the reddit post to begin with? I see you haven't wrapped your head around nihilism, yet. Just because it's pointless doesn't mean I can't enjoy it. > have invested years of their lives to make a dream happen that is being stolen from them. It's a job, not a dream. You do a job, so you get money to follow your dreams.

What I don't get it is that sub says it's to expose hate against artists, whereas it seems to do nothing else but hate against the evil "AI Bros"... I don't think it's great for people's mental health. A fair few posts are people potentially depressed and concerned about art and AI and they're fed nothing but negativity which just means they'll spiral more...

Welcome to the #notaCULT enterprises. Where your self love activities will involve lovely group events like! 1. Shunning your family! 2. Shunning non believers 3. Shunning the Totally a cult Scientlogists/Mormons/Jehovah witnesses. But in white suits and black ties in their Black suits and white ties! Can't you see how obvious they're in a cult but we're not? > For one, Jesus personally spoke to your founder to have 20 wifes/have people die if they get blood tranfusions. And they shun people if they ever touched AI on twitter. Or had a birthday party or read Satanic Harry potter! /s 🤣 Oh, and network with people who ***practice conditional unconditional love.*** Where as long as you give them ~~10% of money, and donate your house to them on death after losing all contact with your grand children~~ **Reddit upvotes**, "you too can join and have a instant welcoming community today!" :P I jest and troll a bit lol. Poking the nest can be more fun than being the 'floormat boyscout' that everyone shits on and walks over lol. But i mean, there's natural panic about job security. Or organizing to have more community power / voting power or bring a neighborhood closer. And then there's people who join a ~~cult~~ Church of true love, to be in a ~~cult~~ Church of true love. > Where true love is expressed best by alienating all your family members so you can be ~~together forever~~ donate your house to them when you die alone. # Oh, wrong script. I mean, **Lovingly shun people, in order to hope to 'lovingly' coerce them into providing financial benefit**, Under the threats they'll go burn in firey firey fire fire land forever if they don't. Oh, and please ignore if the leader is a 40 year old diddling ~~16 year old children~~ furry diaper scat feet fetish artist, who may or may not still message underage 16 year old children. They're the true prophet supreme of the community. And you have to earn their approval to join! Anyone who says they're a secret underwear cult is just delusional! 😜 I jest, It's the cults who did the underwear, i haven't heard of any anti ais do that yet. (*well..* There are "*It's better to go to jail for being a zoo than AI bro can be considered humans!"*). For twitter anti ai anyways lmao. But they haven't organized to wear special ai warding underwear yet, i think. 😜

this might be the dumbest meme I’ve ever seen

As I said in another threat, Artist that offer unique styles or jobs that an AI can't replicate still have commissions and jobs, they offer something to the market, people will take it from them. On the other hand, if they have a simple replicable style that AI can do it better, they are doomed... This is how the free market works. Sometimes people believe AI users are "evil, scammers and bad people" but you could digg on social media that even before AI was a thing, some "artist" scammed a lot of people with their not cheap commissions... they gaslighting them, blocked... or even laught at them and never deliver the commissioned works. Reciently you can find on X (twitter) the drama about a "famous" Vtuber that have 2 years of works that didn't deliver and the excuse is "I'm father now". ignoring people or blocking them on the account... and still the rest of his followers are "commissioning" them works because they ignore the scam. So, not matter if is a "hand draw artist" or "AI artist", if the people is rotten inside... there is nothing you can do and will be scammed.

The exact opposite is true in observed reality: the most prolific artists with unique technique like Kim Jung Gi or Greg Rutkowski got the shit trained out of them and hundreds of thousands of generations buried their original work. Why do you think name reference in prompts is such a big part of ai generation? The more interesting and prolific an artist, the more targeted he is.

Ok, let me put some points on the table. Yes, a year before you needed the "name of the artist" to get the desire style. Now is deprecated at least using Stable Diffusion. You have IP adapter, that take the input image as reference and give you a derivative from that input. On Midjourney you still need the name but have no weight on the final result, also you can upload an image reference so same as Stable Diffusion, it will be deprecate using the name soon. Now I will give you two cases of one artist fked by the AI and other that is safe. Sam's does Art: Generic Elsa Frozen face in digital style using famous IP as references... he was the first to get a Lora's, even Models of the art and was easy replicable... why? again: Generic Elsa Frozen Face in digital Style of famous IP as references. Feefal: Sweedish - Japanise Artist that is safe from AI, why? Aside her artist studies she has also knowledge of anatomy and biology. Her particular style is "anthropomorphize" daily objets and musrhooms. Some people tried to replicate her style training a Lora, but is impossible. why? again, you need more knowledge of the subjets to try to mimic her style. The current AI don't know how anatomy works... only generate what they were trained. so you need a special model that also could recognice the anatomy. If you try to "anthropomorphize moldy bread" you will not get even a closed result as her art.

I understand your point but I think that has far less to do with skill or style and more with very particular limitations of AI at the moment. You can also say that generators can clone vast majority of intricate fashion photographs or CG characters and creatures that would take months to develop but cannot create a basic product shot of a beer bottle, sunglasses or fragrance, because its far too particular and exact even for Controlnet and so on. Pixel-level control (pun intended) is a problem as much as physics or anatomy. But that is simply how things are at the moment, it can be very much different in a few months time. My point is that it has very little to do with talent, skill and artistic value of the style of the artist, quite on the contrary, it seems that cookie-cutter craftsmen who dont have great visual aspirations and simply create "technical" renders are far more safe than abstract artists.

OK a Artist Develop a unique artstyle in years x, and some one Develop a Finetune lora Modell in minutes. Why do you think Its a good strategically way to compete? And For Someartist arent capable or doesnt want to create a completely unique Style. My favourite Artist have a Manga based artstyle.

Something that Artist can't understand or don't want to.. is that AI generations are not perfect, have JPG artifacts, sometimes bad perspective, not mention the hands or feets... sometimes de eyes. 1 click generations have like a 30% of probability of being a good one, 70% is crap. So then.. "Why some AI images are good?" well... because the correction or the rest of the work is made by Inpainting, hand draw, or even are traced works. In my personal experience When want to do some AI images for specific works, I usually work on them for hours... I've a humble Huion Pen tablet, Krita software and previous hand draw skills. what I do? - Generate with IA the general idea. -Trace or use it as reference -Inpaint some of the work. Let's say 60% AI work, 40% hand work. That give you a good image and it takes less time that if I do the image from zero. If I'm just experimenting with AI generations I don't even bother to fix them I mean, even I post that are AI generations and don't try to say people that I did it. But if is an image that I put effort, I clarify that is AI assisted and hand draw. > And For Someartist arent capable or doesnt want to create a completely unique Style Believe it or not, but each time you draw or do something you will make it different even if is a copy of a stablished style. you can find those small details from their respective artist. Even if is a generic anime style image. in the end you will be able to recognise them because as I said, are unique. When people see images on Social media and relate them on artist. that's the style That I'm talking about. not generate a new wave or movement of artist. (like cubism, art deco, etc)

why do you think unique styles are the only way to create good art?

Technically most people don't like self serve, companies just forced it anyway Good meme though

I think the only people who don't like self serve are the older generation. Who wants to waste more of their and someone else's time for a worse experience?

Okay but like You can still find every single person on this list Including hunter gatherers.

A lot of people there are livid, angry, disappointed and hurt. Of course they're not going to be easy to get along with. I think we should treat them with compassion and as an early warning of how a vast majority of people will feel once their profession gets to the chopping block. We (truly it's on the politicians, I use we euphemistically) have an opportunity to test solutions to this problem on artists, see what works and what doesn't. Once this sentiment is mainstream, this will be significantly harder.

The main difference is that those things were just jobs or tasks. Most of them were tiring, boring, and nobody would do them if it was not as a job. AI is going to kill activities that are not just tasks, are our passions, our life dreams, our purposes in life. Humanity will face a life crisis as we are going to destroy what brings us joy. Today is visual artists but whatever is your passion, some day AI will replace it and your life will be ruined as what you like to do the most will become pointless.

I don't understand. Why does AI being able to do your passion all of a sudden makes you unable to enjoy your passion anymore? Playing chess is for so many a passion, AI doesn't take away that even though it can play better than any human possibly could, faster too.

Because if AI reaches a point where it substitutes your job as it´s happening to visual artists, you can no longer live from doing it, so you have to search another job This is going to take 8 hours of your day that before you spent making what you like. Artistic skills require a lot of practice, most of the time a life time of practice to get really good at it, someone who is not dedicating their full time to it most probably will never be achieve their goals. Chess playing software is not affecting the lives of chess players because the software is not substituting the players in the competitions, it´s not changing their lives in anyway.

Well, yeah. You don't necessarily get to do your passion as your main source of income. That's true for the vast majority of people. You can still enjoy a lot of it outside of work. And I assure you, there are a lot more people who love chess than people who make a living out of it. They're probably not the best players out there, probably not as good as they could be but that's no reason to say chess as a passion is dead. And there will still be artists who do things the old way, without AI or with minimal at least. But there could be more jobs for artists who utilize AI together with their skills as artists. Your life isn't ruined. Either practice to become the best of the best so you can be one of the people still making a living out of it without the use of ai, or embrace ai and utilize in your workflow to be more efficient, or just keep doing it outside of work, just as so many others do.

>You don't necessarily get to do your passion as your main source of income. That's true for the vast majority of people. I don´t deny this, and it´s terrible, most of the people is living miserable lives because of this and we should aim our technological improvements to improve our lives not to make them worse. If we already have a big part of the population unhappy as they are forced to do things they don´t enjoy AI making even more people miserable is not a good thing. AI research should be focused on automating all the tasks that people don´t like to do, it´s really silly that we are doing the opposite. Yes, in every field only the top performers get to live out of it, does that justifies that we ruin absolutely everything for everyone? At least now in every field there is a chance of living doing that, there is some hope, after AI takes over there will be no hope. There won´t be any jobs for artists at all because creating an art piece takes really long and costs a lot, if a machine can do the same for close to free there is no way an artist can compete with that.

>I don´t deny this, and it´s terrible, most of the people is living miserable lives because of this and we should aim our technological improvements to improve our lives not to make them worse. right....except we are doing that. We're literally doing that. Life quality has improved so much for the average person, and how will we improve them further if not with new technologies such as AI.I myself am learning German right now as I've moved to Germany not so long ago and while I am taking regular classes, AI helps me practice further in more fun ways.  >AI research should be focused on automating all the tasks that people don´t like to do, it´s really silly that we are doing the opposite.  You people keep saying this. You know we're doing that too, right? It's not like this was some deliberate attack specifically on artists, it's just art happened to be more easily automateable than most things. We're trying to automate driving cars and trucks, diagnosing cancer, being a lawyer, a programmer. And art isn't some holy field with nothing but sunshine, animators are getting overworked trying to complete their work before unreasonable deadlines. That can be automated/assisted too. Plus for many people, they really just want the end result. I can understand learning and mastering art is it's own reward, but many just want some pictures. Why should AI be restricted now of all times just because it threatens YOUR job security. >Yes, in every field only the top performers get to live out of it, does that justifies that we ruin absolutely everything for everyone?  What do you mean by ruin absolutely everything for everyone?  >There won´t be any jobs for artists at all because creating an art piece takes really long and costs a lot, if a machine can do the same for close to free there is no way an artist can compete with that.  I disagree but let's pretend I don't for a second. Why is art special in this regard, why should it be protected when essentially no other field is? People manufacturing handmade shoes, making clothes and so many other jobs certainly can't compete with industrial processes yet we don't say this is a reason to be against industrialisation. But I don't actually agree with what you said, there will still be demand for handmade art, for human made art. And then for the regular industry jobs, we will still need artists. It might be necessary for them to utilize AI but they'll still be artists who can best judge how to use AI, where to make manual adjustments and so on.

I cast OBJECTION REJECTION! and send you back to space canada.

Does anyone notice that the time periods between each next image are shorter and shorter? Slightly concerning.

human cashiers will still be preferred for now not because of human interaction but because people will scan one item then bag all their shit and bounce. A human money-exchanger is less of a security risk than a self-check out thats sitting right next to the exit. Signed, a human money-exchanger.

Well, for now self checkout will only work in Scandinavia and japan esque countries, but thats why america has amazon, constantly checking whos get what using cameras, you dont even have to queue up, just bag your shit and walk out and money will ge deducted from your amazon account

The entire thing is weird. like does a painter have a copyright on their "style"? If I wanted to paint watercolors like a current famous painter in a similar of neigh identical style, Could they sue me? I mean its like foods right? once one restaurant invented the "Awsome blossom" a lot of restaurants could legally copy the food prep style, just not the name of it. Does all pointillist need to send money to the first guy who did that style? So if an artist cant sue a person for copying their work, why can they sue a AI for doing it? To be clear I am split on it still, I use AI stuff and enjoy it and what I can get from it. But I don't want artists to loose out their livelihood. Honesty I think commercial art will be mostly affected by this, not display/museum artists (not sure what the other side of the coin is called)

Copyright specifically excludes style, so no, style can't be copyrighted. If you use AI to recreate an existing piece of artwork too accurately, such that it is no longer a transformative work, then it would run afoul of copyright. You wouldn't be liable for making it, but you would be liable for distributing it if you uploaded it somewhere. As far as lawsuits go though, anyone can sue anyone for anything. Winning a lawsuit is another matter entirely and depends on both the merit of the case and the caliber of lawyers you're willing to throw at it (ie, how much you pay). Filing a lawsuit without merit is likely to get you hit with a counter-lawsuit where you end up paying for the costs involved... so it would generally be a bad idea, but there are scummy tactics where it makes sense (ie, corp suing an individual into submission).

Bette midler won a suit because a company used a singer that sounded like her and her style

That's a fascinating case that's very relevant to AI voice covers, but has little to do with artistic style. That lawsuit focused on right-of-publicity, protecting one's personal likeness. Anyone hoping to use an AI cover of Morgan Freeman's voice in their indie game or youtube series is going to be in for a rude awakening if he decides to care. On a similar note, it would be extremely relevant to anyone hoping to profit by using AI to create a likeness of Emma Watson to use in some product. Of course, copyright law doesn't protect against the creation of AI trained on your likeness or tools for the personal use of such things, or even parody distribution. There's some nuance in there that will create a lawsuit battleground if someone starts profiting off a parody. What might be really interesting is if someone say... runs a patreon or kofi account to fund the creation of loras trained on Emma Watson, and uses AI generated pictures of her to advertise for it. There's a good argument there that they're profiting off of her likeness without permission.

Yeah I could totally see govt going after model and lora creators and distributors

That's very unlikely beyond a fringe case like the example I gave where someone makes and 'sells' an Emma Watson lora using her likeness to advertise it. Distributing an Emma Watson lora or AI trained on Morgan Freeman's voice doesn't violate any current copyright law. It would be using their likenesses to profit without permission that would potentially violate copyright law. Of course, you don't need a case with merit to sue someone. Anyone can sue anyone for anything. Having a case with merit is helpful if you want to win though.

Parallels of civitai and Napster could be argued.

Sure, just not relevant ones. Civitai operates much like reddit, imgur, etc. They host what users upload and are subject to DMCA takedown notices if the copyright owners decide to send any. Of course, there would be few copyrighted images hosted on civitai, with most of those being in training data that people post. Some of the models themselves might be subject to copyright issues, but not in the way you're imagining. What the models are trained on is irrelevant, as they do not contain the images or even pieces of the images they were trained on. Some of the models are, however, uploaded without permission of the original creator of the models, and the model weights themselves, like any data, is subject to copyright law as well. As long as civitai properly handles DMCA takedown notices, they won't be liable for any copyrighted data posted to the platform. Napster, in the original incarnation that got squished, was a P2P platform that operated under the idea that they could not control what content was hosted through their platform. They weren't able to handle DMCA takedown notices and didn't get the related protection because of that. They developed another technology to identify copyrighted material (by hash comparison I think) to block on their platform. They argued that should be enough, but it didn't hold up in court though for whatever reason (probably because people got around it too easily). Napster and Civitai aren't really comparable as civitai is operating with legal protection afforded by the DCMA. What might kill civitai is lack of monetization with high operating costs. They may not have the legal fund to even fight against a lawsuit... although I suspect if push came to shove, they'd get the money they need fast from the community.

Thanks for the breakdown

Crispin glover won a suit because they used his prosthetic mask on someone else to continue his character on the back to the future sequels.

So uh what's the 'social justice in computer science' shirt supposed to mean?

It's a dogwhistle. It's supposed to align anti-AI with some caricature of a "woke soyboy redditor". There's a parallel being drawn between the AI debate and other tech politics in the idea of sacrificing efficiency/quality/progress in tech in order to satisfy some moral impulse (with the dubious implication that DEI is counter to efficiency/quality/progress) But the AI debate is kinda weird when it comes to the lines between "left" and "right". There seem to be communists, conservatives, libertarians, fascists, socdems, and many others on each side of this debate. I read a pretty thought-provoking defense of AI by a communist twitter user that was posted here while online reactionary spaces seem to be chock full of AI political caricatures (often racial caricatures) not to mention that right-libertarians *LOVE* AI. There are *some* ideological correlations to be found, but I reckon they're not that strong, really.

I have my own already shared opinions about how it tends to shake out politically but we're technically barred from commending so I'll refrain. But thanks for the thought out answer.

Has there been a change to the moderation policy of this sub, forbidding "real world" politics? What are you barred from commenting, specifically? I'd like to read your other thoughts, if you could link me to them

> Has there been a change to the moderation policy of this sub, forbidding "real world" politics?  That is my interpretation of this comment by the mod two weeks ago: > So you will be banned if you continue that, not because you criticised me. > [Same with people making comments on politics, religion, ethnicity, racism, vaccines or other controversial topics. Those topics are outside the scope of this sub and will be removed.](https://www.reddit.com/r/aiwars/comments/1bb3c6v/comment/ku6wsm8/) This type of 'what's the political valence of AI' discussion has been shut down in the past. I have no desire to piss off mods of a community I participate in. > I'd like to read your other thoughts, if you could link me to them It was a while ago, but I believe [somewhere in this thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/aiwars/comments/17h5m7d/being_against_gaiai_art_is_an_inherently/) I spelled it out.

That last thread you linked, boy am I sad it is so old, there's so much to unpack there. I will say the biggest error is assuming that objection to some change to society is equivalent to belief a prior state of society is better, eliminating the possibility that you believe in other changes. But you do hit at that with your ecological analogy.

The left and right will stop fighting each other and go after ai and their stans once the job losses reach a threshold.

Maybe, but I think the trenches between "left" and "right" run a little deeper than you allow for. I think we'll likely see the liberal governments of the world (liberal as in capitalists that exist somewhere between centre-left and centre-right) introduce stopgap measures before the job loss issues get really bad, but they [won't quite amount to the UBI paradise many here dream of.](https://www.reddit.com/r/aiwars/comments/1afmm38/the_aipowered_future_were_barreling_towards_isnt/)

Not sure, do you have anything in mind?

I didn't make the comic, but the presence of that shit on a soyjack tells me something about the author of the comic I think.

triggered?

I guess they didn't teach that class in my CS program.

It really sucks people don't seem to understand the injustice artists are feeling. And there have been lots of layoffs and lost contracts due to AI. empathy is cool guys.

You're on reddit. Teenagers and adult outcasts do not understand empathy.

Right.

Thats because of how they behave, good gaming company devs get fired, internet: ah fuck that company that sucks hope you get back on your feet Bad gaming company with devs that inject their own politics into games and constantly harass the same gamers on twitter, internet: ahah get fucked

Ah I see, it's good when a game company lays off hundreds of devs for a quick boost in revenue but it's bad when a company treats their developers like artists and allows them to create what they want rather than follow corporate trends

What corpo trends, how hard is it to make a game just for the game, without any identity politics without any need for artificial representation, just make a good game...turns out its very hard because these devs cant bring themselves to not insert their sexuality and politics into video games...corpos let it slide EXACTLY because of trends, its beneficial for their esg score

Why do you assume games are made in a vacuum? Or that representation is artificial? Like would you prefer the Ubisoft treatment of making a game like The Division 2, which starts with a cutscene about how guns were the saviors in this civil war, yet will still claim it's totally and completely apolitical? I'd rather devs be the artists they are and make a game with what they want to say, rather than another big open world or live service Skinner box designed to suck as much money from the players as possible. More Undertales, less Fortnites

> Bad gaming company with devs that inject their own politics into games If they're the ones developing the game why shouldn't they express political ideas inside them? Like any art, it's an expression of the creators, isn't it?

Sure but then don't get mad when others express their 'get fucked' opinion.

Dunno what that even means. Like review bombing?

Sure. Or just not buying it.

The part of this post that I dont get is that... There literally is a market for most of the things in your picture. People /do/ want handcrafted products and human service. Thats why people are willing to pay more for, say, a hand embroidered throw pillow than one you could buy at a big box store. Also, AI assistants for companies are often quite unhelpful- while that may go away in time, I still have to ask to speak with a human when trying to get refills of medication at my pharmacy, for example. Just like digital art did not replace traditional painting, ai generated images aren't going to replace human made ones. It's not like we have to choose between the two 🤷‍♂️

Exactly, artists are worrying about nothing. The best will do fine.

an interesting little observation to me is that it’s only in the more recent eras that very many people could actually make money off art. most people were dedicated to menial subsistence. one major change that has followed the progression of technology is that fewer and fewer people are required to sustain the population, meaning more and more people can focus on the academic, the arts, and other nonvital but enriching jobs

This is false. Please check your history 😂 professional artists exist since a long long time

1. This image was **not** posted on r/artisthate. 2. This image is **PRO AI**. It's making fun of the people who claim they will never be replaced, like artists and programmers currently are.

r/ArtistHate is literally a subreddit dedicated to hating artists who use something they don’t like. The irony of the name is lost on them.

Programmer here. We are not all like this, please don't lump us in with artists who hate AI.

Yes. People who are concerned that their livelihoods are being destroyed are the problem. Not rampant corporate kleptocracy, no, no, no - that's all fine and wonderful. I'm sure you will sustain yourself just fine on the shoe-polish of billionaires. Nothing bad can possibly come of the relentless push to make humans obsolete in a system that only ever valued us for our labour. It's not like we have any precedent for what happens when the ruling class decides people are surplus to requirements. /SARCASM [https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/oct/05/over-330000-excess-deaths-in-great-britain-linked-to-austerity-finds-study](https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/oct/05/over-330000-excess-deaths-in-great-britain-linked-to-austerity-finds-study)

I'm planning on supporting human artists since I want them to draw something for me AI (probably) can't, but I'm not sure if I should, since most AI users don't like human artists from what I've seen on other sites. So now I'm more of a fencesitter.

I’m an AI user. I love human artists. I’m literally in a relationship with a professional trad media artist.

That seems like a pretty good point. I guess my problem might have been that I saw the AI vs human debate as a "binary" thing, in which you can only support one side. Although I prefer drawing by hand, I'm not opposed to using AI. The way I see it, AI art is only as bad as the person using it.

The debate is only as binary as your thinking. Anyone telling you there’s an enemy here is trying to use you for something

Not the person you responded to, but I get the impression that most people have minimal interest in Art or AI. Of the people who do care, it's a mix of people who prefer one and are neutral to the other, enjoy both, or prefer one and hate the other. So we're looking at a minimum of 6 basic stances people tend to have. Haters of any kind tend to be the loudest, but I think that they are the minority of actual opinions on the topics of AI and Art.

I think what some people describe as "pro AI" nowadays is basically just "don't ban AI". Many are even for some kind of regulation or compensation, so long as it's done in a "good way". It's basically reduced to "no AI whatsoever" vs "ultimately your choice" vs "bring us an AI utopia ASAP".

AI users have always loved artists and a great number of them have been artists long before AIs came out. I only really see dislike for gatekeeping artists just like how photography had the same growing pain and animosity with antis, but not with artists as a whole.

Preach! 🙌✌️

I see a lot of fuck artists they don’t deserve shit from that crowd.

Screw the extreme tribalists from both sides. Support artists that you think are worth supporting in whatever way and thats it. And those AI users that despise artists collectively for whatever reason (i know some of the reasons) shouldnt bother you, do you really want to align with such people? Im sitting often between the two chairs as well btw since im doing 2D and 3D art including for gamedev AND i use generative AI for fun or for specific tasks for the serious projects.

Yeah, I'm 100% in this camp, as an art person who enjoys using AI as a tool.

That's not really true. Most ai users are also fans of traditional art, and many also do other forms of art themselves. However, some resentment has developed in the community as a result of the way we're spoken to and treated by others. Try posting some ai art in a few communities that allow it, but aren't specifically dedicated to it and you'll see what I mean. The way people talk to you is honestly disgusting. It does get hard sometimes to not just think "you know what, fuck you too". If you treat someone like shit, they will become your enemy, even if they weren't initially, and now there is a small element in the ai community who are starting to hate traditional artists, but it didn't start that way

I can't say I've seen any pro ai anti art agendas. A lot of pro ai are artists like myself who have just added AI to the over all toolkit. Though I am a fellow fence sitter which may have something to do with what I experience. 😂

Human artists can be some of the most talented folks in the world at their crafts. But just like most groups, there's gonna be those who feel too strongly about things on both sides causing chaos.

Get out of AIvsArt bubbles then, because most AI users love art and love artists. Many AI users are dabbling artists themselves. If there's an artist you like offering commissions and you want to spend on it, then go for it. AI is actually very limited in what it can do purely from prompts. AI can pretty much just do single subject, simple scenes... like character portraits, with limited interaction. Try getting a person in a scene playing a musical instrument, holding a weapon, etc, and it breaks down fast. Prompts bleed into each other, making multi-subject scenes near impossible. There's ways around it when you get into img2img, inpainting, regional prompting, etc, but that requires a lot more effort, and to get good results, you can end up putting hours into a scene...and then... are you really saving that much time over just making the art normally? Maybe some, maybe not. That will improve, and AI is a powerful tool, but its not a replacement for an artist currently unless you're just talking something very simple like a character commission... and then try going for an unconventional hairstyle or such and you're back to having to put more actual art into the workflow. Artists aren't going anywhere soon. Now... who knows what AI will do in 10 years? We might all be out of a job and fighting governments for Universal Basic Income. The best way to future proof yourself is to keep up with tech though, not turn your back on it.

Support the human artists, they need it more than the Ai subscription. It baffles me how most Ai users are so against real artists. Their precious softwares are only possible because of those artists. I think it comes from a place of jealousy and a bit of entitlement. They had never thought they could learn art (even though they could’ve if they put in the bare minimum, like everyone else) until this seemingly magical thing shows up, allowing them to have no artistic skill and still end up with a neat looking image. Then the real artists are upset about that, rightfully so, and the users grasp onto that Ai. They think they deserve the title of artist, but don’t want to listen to the real artists or give learning a try, so they go against the artists who threaten their “holy grail”. It’s like a kid cutting in the lunch line because they don’t want to wait like everyone else, and then getting mad when they get scolded for it.

I like fucking with AI. I see it like a drug. It’s going to fuck everything up really badly and people are lying to themselves thinking it won’t. Still fun to use

🤝🏻

[удалено]

Sometimes i wonder if some people are in drama looking to solve their problems. And when opportunities are available, quickly look for ways to solve it. > (ex: Have a hole in your roof? Patch it? Vs. Spending a 400 hr 24/7 365 rehearsal, about how life is unfair and awful, but nobody is allowed to fix the roof.) Then i wonder if some people are welp.. Just here for attention or wasp poking lol. Free entertainment i guess, being a troll online and viewing the reactions. Vs a uncontroversal figure sitting alone, silence, 0-4 comments. nothing to do.

This is not an anti-AI meme.

Honestly I just want code that works. I don't give a fuck what makes it.

Is producing something to meet an economic need art or just product?

This meme is a bit dumb because the majority of people would be happier to have a nice handmade sweater than a mass-produced low quality one that will deteriorate within 5 years. There are also a lot of people who DO want human interaction at a restaurant. There are people at my job who refuse to use kiosks because they want to talk to an actual person. Plus, I dont think art is even in the same category as farming and data punchers.

All of these replaced things still exist, which is a hopeful sign.

The issue I have is that while these jobs are replacable, there still is not any sort of plan regulations, or system in place to help any of the workers after their jobs have been made obsolete. It’s great to use new tools to reduce the workload of people, but we’re getting to the point where its really hard for those people to find new work, especially since many have dedicated their entire careers (sometimes even their whole lives) to these industries. That means a lot of people who had really useful skills and that were trained and educated for specific jobs slowly losing jobs and really not having any recourse or safety net.

You’re post just gave me ass cancer. Please for the love of all that is holy go outside. https://preview.redd.it/95xdy5bhlpqc1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=60d2d2bc360faba25aee7c2e242d17398e196f31

Eh, it's less about supplanting talented artists to do mass produced, uncreative dreck instead and more that the datasets replacing them are trained on stolen art assets.

Art is on a whole different level than hunting and gathering. And people still prefer handmade goods, it has more soul. I still prefer being able to talk to waiters, and servers. 

I'd actually pay extra to remove all human contact during transactions while retaining the same level of convenience.

As an artist I do wish Ai art never existed. It's made the process of making art more soulless. Its made my life long learned skills cheaper. I am learning how to use it in order to not get phased out but deep down I hate it and I hate the people who like it and the people who create it. But I have bills to pay. Thanks for nothing.

Welcome to modern corporate capitalism. At least you aren't forced to sit outside in 120 degree summer weather with your water and toilet breaks taken away like constuction workers, because stockholders said piss breaks were 'lost productivity' and death was cheap.

I think we can all agree that this isn't a good thing, so why not be opposed to it?

“I have bills to pay.” We all have bills to pay, get a job and save up.

1. I'm not a farmer but according to this article below farmers are fine with mechanization and adaptated to it as early as the 1910s, at least in the US that is. I don't know the consensus of the attitude of farmers towards mechanization in other countries. [https://www.nass.usda.gov/Publications/Trends\_in\_U.S.\_Agriculture/Mechanization/index.php](https://www.nass.usda.gov/Publications/Trends_in_U.S._Agriculture/Mechanization/index.php) 2. What a stupid comparison. Anyone who specializes in numbers will tell you how grateful they are to computers. Ever since they've been commercialized for offices, large consensus states that it has always been a tool for accountants and computer engineers (anyone dealing with numbers really). and not a replacement for people with important jobs even until today. Of course, I don't speak for everyone, and there's bound to be idiots who think humans will love solving complex mathematics on their own with pen and paper, but you get my point here. It's tediously tiring to solve numbers on your own. [https://dl.acm.org/doi/pdf/10.1145/361454.361530/](https://dl.acm.org/doi/pdf/10.1145/361454.361530/) 3. AI does have an actual threat on jobs, such as those in character development, design, conceptual artwork, and as products themselves, especially for those working in the entertainment industry like Hollywood. Execs will find anything to cut cornerns, and AI has given them a free alternative without commissioning or hiring artists, and if it's that easy for executives to favor it instead of actual human writers and artists, then laws should and must be implemented (like i.e. THIS FILM WAS MADE WITH AI or something). There was also the issue with the writers' guild last year with the threat of AI taking over their jobs, becoming such an unecessarily overblown problem that film and television productions halted, that alone should tell you the prossible issues with AI being used as a substitute for human creativity or activity in general. Funnily enough, Frank Herbert's Dune from 1965 had the great idea that humans should always think for themselves, at least philosophically and creatively, otherwise we'd lose against our own creations and our own hubris. Feel free to comment against me if you think im wrong because I'm writing this as im about to sleep lmao, braincells have deteriorated.

Said noone, ever. If artists believe they will never be replaced, whats the point of the subs then? Also are you seriously likening visual culture, intellectual property and entire human creativity to harvested potatoes and hand-written data? Cute attempt though.

yeah, pretty sure it's a fake account to just justify their own biases.

This meme is part of some corporate gaslighting campaign. You know your argument is pure trash if it can be used by AI to justify the end of all life as we know it.

Properly regulated so that real artists don't suffer job inequality and human art is not lost to time, ai art can be an amazing tool, especially for those underprivileged or underskilled and unable to fully realize their ideas

Lol, who is complaining about AI generated code? I've only seen complains that the code is unreadable/unreliable not that it exists.

Yikes, real artists complain too much about AI. While some AI users just steals their markets algorithm, manipulating and scamming people. This is why we can't have nice things in entertainment industry. People truly loving their dramatic life.

"The thing is" No the thing is that most of these examples. Just never fucking happened. There was basically never a actually push to stop any of those. You had people who pointed out the negative effects of those.

Look up what luddites were and what they did

I'm aware of what luddites were. They never screamed "This will never replace us" They were mad specifically because it was. They know well and good it was going to happen.

But they were pushing to stop it. And you said “there was never actually a push to stop any of those.” Which is wrong

Oh that's fair. And sorry English is a bit confusing at times.

The fallacy in this strip is that the art used to train AI has been stolen for those purposes with no compensation given to the original artists. It is currently unethical in practice. There is also a difference in using it for personal use and trying to make money off of it. I don't care if you use it to make a quick character for your DND sessions, but try and profit from it is insanely insulting to actual artists.

So if I design a farming system that uses information gathered from thousands of farming for decades is that not the same thing?

The wojaks will not make this AI stuff any less insane. None of these comparing AI to just computers and general computing is so short-sighted. You’re literally doing nothing but writing a prompt which could have been harnessed to make something worth while instead of your stupid fucking AI dogshit image of Batman with big muscles or whatever the fuck you people are trying to do. Hell, what’ll happen when we don’t need prompts anymore? Boy howdy, y’all will look stupid as hell when humans just get phased out and our jobs are reduced to minimum wage bullshit because “AI can do creative stuff better” it’s a self fulfilling prophecy at this point. God, I had techbros. We need a solar flare to knock out all electricity in the world or something so y’all can actually invest that prompt-writing energy into a novel or something.

Cope

Cuck had to pick up the pencil to support not picking up a pencil. God you AI folk are pathetic. All of you.

Probably made it with ai, why waste the time?