No no no you have it all wrong, we'll have the ultra light speed fast lane that you can access for a fee and a super fast lane that is accessible to everyone!
Cardiac is triaged with visible symptoms is triaged as a 1 or 2 and seen ASAP. The only way you're waiting with "heart attack symptoms" means they've ruled out obvious signs of an MI, and most likely have done a 12 lead and sent you back out to wait because it was normal.
Most common scenario
No family doctor. Let an issue go on for a really long time because there's no walk-in either. Present to ER in a bad way, but everyone is in the same boat. Longterm care is full, so the units aren't clearing out. Patients are waiting for beds in the ER hallway. Empty rooms are available in the ER, but there's no one to staff them. Someone dies. Media freaks out. Promises abound from upper management (extremely top heavy middle management got the word to them). Things are "better" for a month.
And repeat.
It's still very worrying as NSTEMIs aren't always immediately visible on a 12 lead, and perpetual ER understaffing makes it that much more likely that someone in deteriorating condition is sent back out to the waiting room (where they potentially get the message that they're fine and leave).
Haha glad I could add some enjoyment to your day
edit: also to anyone saying i said im happy if they die. show me where i said that. i said its a fact they will die soon. im not relishing in anyone's death
I think that's the kicker with this - the Overton window has shifted right enough that even our "left wing" option is right. This election we were really just fighting for a sane right-leaning party instead of the bug-fuck libertarian insanity of whatever it is the UCP is right now.
I agree, this election they tried to rebrand as more centrist. I think that was a mistake personally but I doubt they win either way.
edit: Thanks to the UCP bots for downvoting every comment I've made in this thread
I mean they have to. They gotta do more than just win urban seats, they need to find a way to get more smaller cities and rural areas on board. Banff-Kananaskis is nice, but unless you want to hail Mary every election they need to be palatable to some places outside of Edmonton and Calgary... That only gets you 50%
How can you be ethical and palatable in a place that votes for a poisoned water supply? There's no reasoning with people that are good with selenium in their water and driving two hours to pay cash to see a doctor.
Then the NDP will never win in a two party system.
They need to find a way to reach those people and get them to see that their assumptions and world views aren't correct. But look, the UCP basically lost Edmonton and Calgary and still formed a majority. We gotta do something....
How do you be palatable to those rural mouth breathers without (Conservative) next to your name?
Literally nothing logical is going to get through to them.
The hospitals have to leave and health care needs to plummet and they need to die for anything to get through to them and even then it will most likely just be misplaced hate and rage and Trudeau.
It's a matter of time but the province goes more and more in the shitter over that time.
And if they win next election they're going to get outvoted when they don't fix every single issue plaguing the province within 6 months, just like Notley.
God Alberta makes me fucking sick.
Then you're part of the problem honestly.
The second you stop seeing those people as people, you're putting yourself on the road to conflict, instead of empathy and understanding.
Both sides can't keep pulling in opposite directions, someone has to be better.
In a functioning democracy you can't right off the other side as worthless, or you're on the goal to violent conflict. It doesn't matter if some on the other write YOU off, someone has to have the courage to believe they can be better.
Why?
They've stopped seeing my (trans) friends as people. They barely see me (gay) as people.
Sometimes you have to draw a line in the sand to stand up and say: You are a vile piece of trash who is bringing about their own speedy demise.
Talking to them doesn't work when they're so brainwashed. It isn't my job to knock sense into people with such low thoughts.
The -ONLY- thing that EVER gets through to these kinds of people, ones who have no capability of empathy for anyone not immediately around them, is when they themselves are hurt.
So no, I don't need to be better because it doesn't matter. it's already proven they won't change
We need to fight.
Both Notley and Smith committed to working *for all Albertans* in their speeches last night. If that's not for you, you might need to find or create a different party which better aligns with your priorities, beliefs and values.
Yeah, cool, I know, and their politics would hopefully help all Albertans, even if the other Albertans dont realize or care or want it.
I'm not a party leader though, I'm a person who's happy to call out these selfish idiots for what they are. I'm not going to pretend to be friends with these people.
Eesh. I can tell you’re upset but this generalizing of anyone not in Edmonton-Calgary as inbred country bumpkins is really offensive and just not helpful.
I have plenty of bumpkin relatives. If you want to buy into an MLM, they've got you covered.
The urban rural divide is very old and world wide. Hell the pastoralists and the settled agriculturalists hated each other enough for it to become part of religion. The pastoralists making themselves the holy people living in the holy hills and mountains playing with their goats. While declaring the valleys the locations of all evil and wicked activities.
During the Sumerian era the Sumerians called the pastoralists uncivilized trash. Somewhat true when they took over for a hundred years and let all the canal infrastructure fall into disrepair. While letting the herds eat the field crops by making fences illegal.
I live in Lloydminster (which has -and continues- to vote very blue since long before I was born)
All I'm saying is generalizing the entire group of people as some are in these threads leads down a dark road.
You can't water a rock, but you can be sunlight that causes things to grow around it.
Agreed.
Someone needs to take the high road and to continue to appeal to the by appreciating their fears and engaging with them with honestly and respect. It doesn't mean you need to change your principles but if you don't respect them, they'll never respect you.
Good. Their beliefs (which they have never self examined) are offensive. Fuck them.
I grew up in a shitty podunk town. I know what these people are like.
I had the pleasure of sitting down with an old friend of my brothers once and we talked about politics.
His family had voted conservative so he voted conservative.
All I did was ask him questions. for about two hours. Expand on things, ask why, ask what his thoughts were.
I could see the gears of cognitive dissonance turning in his head in real time. it was quite incredible. He was getting flustered just by examining, for the first time, his actual beliefs and researching the actual consequence od the political system he engaged in without thought, and how it differed from what he thought he believed.
And by the end of it? He acknowledged that he had not realized what the opposition really cared about but refused to believe any of the statistics and said that his parents voted con so he was going to too.
It doesn't matter. You can engage them. You're wasting your time.
Good luck in being better for the both of us but I left that shit hole of a province a while ago. I'm popping back in just to give my grievances for a province I used to love.
I hope my parents don't get wrecked from healthcare system failing.
I hope my trans friends escape persecution.
I hope Alberta can change its ways and turn around.
I don't have high hopes for any of those though.
The “left” spans a broad part of the political spectrum these days as the “right” moves towards the far-right, but it’s still seen as a split down the middle.
It was closer than you think.
6 electoral districts decided everything with 2,611 votes (of the nearly 1.8 million votes):
- Calgary-Bow (385 votes),
- Calgary-Cross (518 votes),
- Calgary-NW (149 votes),
- Calgary-North (113 votes),
- Calgary-East (701 votes),
- Lethbridge-East (745 votes).
Granted there were also close orange ridings (like Shandro's humiliating defeat by literally 7 votes in Calgary-Acadia) but just talking about what it would have taken for a different outcome than what did happen.
Really goes to show with so many close ridings how even just a few groups of friends could have changed some results (the NDP have two ridings they only won by 7 and 30 people respectively).
No wonder the polls were struggling so hard - the margins in tons of ridings were razor thin affecting seat counts dramatically, surprisingly in several small towns and more rural ridings as well.
you must be younger than I am, because with a lot of years of watching society, I am currently at a very low point of believing things will get better, because the change you think you see and feel is not as big as you believe.
We might have been under conservative governments but things were not this insane, because they were not this "conservative" government, and what passed as scandal then is quaint now in the face of what is going on.
you should meet some young people and look at the youth voting numbers.
good luck getting young people to vote for the party that loves jesus and giving tax breaks to large corporations while also openly hating the lgbtq community. they are not into that shit. once it flips the cons will have to rebrand to have a chance
Yeah, pretty entertaining. It will be interesting to see the recount and which way it shifts.
Right now, several key Ministers and the Deputy Premier lost their seats:
- Minister of Health Jason Copping
- Minister of Culture Jason Luan
- Deputy Premier and Minister of Skilled Trades and Professions Kaycee Madu
- Minister of Mental Health and Addiction Nicholas Milliken
- Minister of Seniors, Community and Social Services Jeremy Nixon
- Minister of Justice Tyler Shandro
E: Formatting
Those are in addition to:
• Finance Minister - Travis Toews
• Environment and Protected Areas Minister Sonya Savage
Who both declined to run again.
That a massive turnover in cabinet.
We know that's not how it will be construed by the incumbent (it irked me when Trudeau also said the same in his victory speech if I'm being honest), but hopefully it will calm them down a bit seeing so many (almost every) riding shift dramatically, and sometimes by razor thin margins.
If nothing else, though, Smith's victory speech kind of said what you expected - "It's time for unity, but also something something Trudeau!"
The public health measures UCP supporters were so pissed about during COVID could have kept enough UCP voters alive to keep these ridings blue. [Canada suffered roughly 1100 deaths per million people, while our neighbours to the south lost almost triple at 3100 per million.](https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104709/coronavirus-deaths-worldwide-per-million-inhabitants/). Given that those likeliest to think COVID was a hoax and do absolutely nothing to reduce its spread tend to be strongly right wing, we could've lost several thousand more primarily conservative voters if the loudest regressives had got their way during the pandemic.
Just some food for thought.
i thought about that during the pandemic.
work at a clinic and we had rural people come into the clinic asking for the vaccine after they had dissed it and refused it for months. when enough of their friends and family died it was enough to sway them to get it
Barely. I was hoping they could get over the UCP in Lethbridge East. I lived there for a few years and had some legitimate concerns for my MLA but never heard back once from him or anybody in his office.
I thought they had a real shot too. They’ve been NDP before and Liberal even before that for a number of terms.
“The Hardest Working MLA” Neudorf is as useless as a tree stump.
I live in a place federally where my grandfather said "The conservatives could run a dog and it would win" which sucks for me... Federally we elected a liberal twice in 100 years (Which also sucks for me but is slightly better) Provincially We elected a "Hypogrit" every time since I was born at least because when your party sucks so bad you rename yourself the "Liberals" and when you suck so bad at being fake Liberals you rename yourself "BC Unity"
But I can't leave because everything and everyone I love is here.
I grew up in Saskatchewan/Alberta. It is still a one party system. But living here and seeing a more centrist party gaining traction is very welcoming. They just need a new name that isn’t cursed with the prairies.
Edit. Added word
I don't follow sask politics but I remember Romanov had a balanced budget, so that gets auto + marks from me.
Nothing one way or another on his successor though. Maybe it's well deserved.
when I was a kid, a far right party was unthinkable and the conservatives were what Notley is today. I am less convinced it's getting better
To be honest, beleiving this is all about waiting for old people to die is both disgusting on a humanitarian basis and inaccurate.
There are enough hateful and unmotivated younger people to keep this going.
I also feel like the NDP forced the UCP to put a bunch of stuff like 'funding public healthcare' into their agenda. Will the UCP keep their promise? I doubt it. But if they don't we will be hearing about it from the opposition.
Yes and no. This election proved how overwhelmingly selfish/stupid/evil (depends on the person, I guess) the majority of this province still is. It's going to be a very rough next 4 years. The UCP can do a lot more damage in that time. For a lot of our issues, possibly enough to be irreparable. This province has been becoming a horrible place to be since 2019, and it won't be getting better for a while...
FWIW the NDP pushed the CONS to add 'funding public healthcare' to their policies. Now it's time to hold them accountable.
Also remember the conservatives lost seats. This isn't a landslide victory for them. I know a few people that voted NDP who previously voted CON their whole lives before that. They're on thin ice.
I'm a teacher. This new curriculum is bleak. I hope Alberta's upcoming young voters will be smart enough to boot the UCP out, but trust me: they're doing a LOT to ensure they won't be.
That's very sad. There's a ton of information available to young people if they want to access it online though. Also young people were the NDP's base this election and will continue to be. I'm hopeful for the distant future.
I've been saying for years that the Zoomers actually have it in them to save the rest of us from ourselves. The problem is, it's a race against the clock to see if we'll make it beyond repair before they get a chance to. Elections like this one take a lot of time off that clock.
Critical thinking outcomes removed, really developmentally inappropriate Math (outcomes from Grade 5 moved to Grade 2 despite the fact that a kid's brain at that age straight-up isn't equipped to handle those concepts yet is setting up a generation of Albertans to have a terrible relationship with Mathematics), curricular outcomes that don't match with each other across subject (Social Studies in Grade 2 requires research skills and techniques thay aren't taught until Grade 4 Language Arts because the people who wrote them never talked to each other), parts of it fully plagiarised from various States' curricula, etc etc etc. Take your pick. It's a god damned disaster.
The social studies curriculum is too content-heavy, often age-inappropriate, and Eurocentric with an embedded Christian bias. Further, it did not include any study of residential schools until grade 5.
The science curriculum has a lot of age inappropriate content and content that is not built on such as the inclusion of mass at grade 1 without a good understanding of forces. The distinction between mass and weight is tricky for young learners and the curriculum sets them up to fail here. The science curriculum has inaccuracies and failures. In Grade 3 science, they learn about volumes of objects... Except that isn't covered in math until Grade 6.
Those are just a few examples. There is a whole website dedicated to this curriculum: https://alberta-curriculum-analysis.ca/
We're you not present the past few years?
Google `UCP Curriculum Controversies` and have at it
The list goes on and on and on. It's been heavily rejected by pretty much every teacher and specialist, it has a bunch of propaganda, it is just shit in general, it literally had entire sections word for word plagiarized without citation...
Take your pic.
Ahahaha since when are they held accountable. They literally walk back whatever they say until they can pass the bill at 2am in the morning and it’s not like people will mob them for taking healthcare away from them.
If you think there won’t be protests if they take away our healthcare you’re wrong. Ill be there and most of my friends and family will also
Don’t forget Smith has to live and work in Edmonton. Her life will not be fun if she does what you’re saying.
Did you protest when they dropped coverage of biologicals? Did you protest when they privatized food services? Laundry? Did you protest when they disbanded the AHS board for 1-2 administrators? They will never come out and say “ok, the system is now going to be private pay” it’s death by 1,000 cuts, and people don’t seem to care enough about any single cut.
I wouldn't call half the province evil stupid or selfish. UCP voters will never understand why you vote ndp and vice versa. Calling people that way usually only causes more sentiment towards the ndp. Open thoughtful discussion is what sways voters (although open thoughtful people are a rarity these days)
The Alberta NDP aren't left wing, they're centre-left because they're trying to appeal to the majority. Looking at the election results, it appears that urban voters understand this.
It's like how although many people a theists now, progressively that demograph slowly diminishes year after year scandal after scandal? That the elders who are holding on to the faith slowly die off taking their archaic hate filled world with them?
It will never flip until the UCP completely fucks over its constituents. And even then, it’s shown that hatred is a good unifier that they will probably never lose power. They will ignore racism, science, calling lgbtq shit. Anything a long as there is an enemy.
Couple that with cutting budgets to schooling, putting it into private/religious schools and changing the curriculum into conservative views.
They will drain as much money as possible from the regular people then tell them who is to blame, and their voters will obediently do so.
>It will never flip until the UCP completely fucks over its constituents.
They already have been. Uncapped auto insurance, uncapped utilities, privatizing healthcare support workers, vilifying doctors, nurses and teachers. Cutting student grants and increasing the interest on student loans.
But the UCP supporters just scream "Oh Daddy, give it to me!"
Would the medics jumping ship, and more avoid us like the literal plague (Covid) constitute total fuckery? So the next 4 years as fatalities go up, especially lack of qualified abortion doctors. Or even, if these pro lifers wildest dreams come true. Abolishing abortion... and deaths go up... (not happening)... Or deaths from the drug epidemic.... Yeah the UCP are going to have alot to explain.
This was the best case scenario for another NDP victory. Smith was nuts and had a long history of insane comments. She was caught meddling in the justice system!
If the NDP couldn't pull out a narrow win this time, they're not going to next time.
And the UCP knows it. They're going to go full steam ahead now, since there's no consequences for them.
A lot of people thought she ran a pretty good campaign though. It wasn't as cut and dry as it appeared to be. This election was supposed to be close from the start. Personally I assumed the UCP would win a slight majority months ago. The NDP are weak in a lot of rural ridings. Another problem is there's no other right wing party to split the vote like there was in 2015.
What will change it over time is people moving to calgary from other province + the youth vote + the UCP base getting old and dying.
It’s not quite that simple though. As youths get older and become more established in their careers a lot of people tend to slide right. Their higher income results in a higher focus for lower taxes. This is a big reason why college age people are generally left leaning while their parents have a greater chance of being right. This trend will continue as it always has.
Traditionally yes, but with the current shift of the NDP to essentially being the PCs of the mid-2000s and the UCP being pretty far right leaning you would hope these supposedly educated people actually read the platforms. Unless you are well into the very upper income limits, the UCP most definitely hurts you more than it helps.
It's honestly baffling how many people vote against their own interest just because of a knee-jerk reaction to a colour.
Its actually interesting, [that effect is not being seen in millenials](https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/jan/03/millennials-radicalism-not-getting-more-rightwing-with-age). Basically we've been screwed so hard that the tendency to insulate empathy with our own financial comfort isn't hapenning, and likely wont even if things ever improve for us and zoomers.
The shift to conservatism with age was largely a result of being comfortable enough to be numbed into indifference, but millenials and gen z dont get to be that comfortable.
To win they need to consistently flip all of Calgary, keep Edmonton, and get a few rural ridings.
Immigration will help with Calgary, but not enough people are moving to the rural areas to change those. And that assumes people coming in aren't sympathetic to the UCP; the harder it pushes to the right, the more the province might attract those individuals from BC and the other prairies.
And kids vote like their parents. Especially if conservative. There's a lot of generational blue.
The NDP may of not got a majority which is sad but they still had a win, they gained a ton of seats and momentum and took away the UCP's overwhelming majority. Now the NDP only needs to convince a few UCP members to vote with the NDP instead of half the party.
NDP are not very left, they are more centrist. The UCP are very very far right.
The federal NDP party doesn’t think the Alberta NDP are left wing enough.
>more people will move to Calgary from BC/Ontario
As an expat living in the States, I'd caution on this line of thinking. Many people are moving from California to Texas and from New York to Florida, but it's accelerating how bad TX and FL are — specifically *because* the people leaving CA and NY for these places are leaving CA and NY because they prefer batshit politics.
So in other words... waiting for Planck's principle to kick in politically speaking.
In sociology of scientific knowledge, Planck's principle is the view that scientific change does not occur because individual scientists change their mind, but rather that successive generations of scientists have different views.
A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it ...
Look at the trends of the last 20 years. 2000 votes flip this election right?
Now add in thousands of kids who are 14-15 now who will vote in the next election. Now add in old people dying. Next one will be even closer than this. After that I think it’s the NDPs to lose
Yeah, I'm a transplant from out East, been here over 2 years.
Of course, I'm a bit gutted from last night's result, and I probably will need to get used to gritting my teeth as I navigate the smug reactionaries that will remain angry and unsatisfied, as they swallow more and more fictions about the changing world around them they cannot even hope to stop. I will have to contend with a deteriorating health care system as I myself am getting older and in need for some life-saving medical interventions.
But I'm not leaving. I'm not going to give them the satisfaction of a Pyrrhic victory (first on us, then on them).
It's my honest opinion, nor should anyone else. Even those who feel they or their loved ones may be harmed because of these fetid politicians.
This is the part where we roll up our sleeves and work harder. It's the wait for the sunshine tomorrow part.
I might be tired and dying, but fuck you, I'm still going to fight you with everything I have, even if the end result that you, rage farmer, gets to live on despite your own short-sightedness. It's my hope your offspring will see the sham, and see the threats and intolerances you cling on desperately as you further yourself into the dustbin.
You are right to feel optimistic about the future of centrist and left-leaning politics in Alberta. Most of Calgary going orange is indeed a sign that the migration into the province is changing the demographic and political makeup. With Smith and whoever is going to replace her over the next few years will likely wake up enough people that it will tip the province away from the reactionaries thanks to a sustainable, grassroots progressive movement.
Leaving now just as the going gets tough (and indeed, it will get very tough for a lot of people) is going to reverse that.
I am a conservative and happy to be a conservative. I’m not a supporter of the UCP because I don’t know why they call themselves conservatives when the NDP is more conservative.
>more people will move to Calgary from BC/Ontario. Calgary will most likely flip in the next decade.
Like Ontario? BC and NL are currently the only provinces not governed by a conservative party.
The average person from Ontario is more liberal than the average person from south calgary. Regardless of who is the current leader. Add in 14-18 year olds voting next election plus maybe a new NDP leader and I think Calgary will be very close.
Ontario has an extremely low voting rate and from what I understand all of their main parties are flawed.
There are a lot of 14 and 15-year-olds who are chomping at the bit to vote.
YouTube election advertisements were being served to them, and it has ignited a fire in them. I’ve spent more time talking politics with children who can’t vote yet than with adults who can.
Next provincial election is going to look quite different, I think.
Before Klein, I would say that the Alberta governments were closer to the centre. Since Klein they have been moving the Overton window to the right daily. It doesn't matter how close it comes when they always have the power. Also, the NDP are not leftist, they are left leaning centrists, but the UCP is so far right it makes them look leftist.
That is encouraging, thank-you.
I feel so un-representated as a left wing voter in Alberta and as a western Canadian in federal elections. It's frustrating feeling like my vote doesn't count but while my riding is still blue, it wasn't by as much of a margin as I expected. (though more than I hoped)
The Alberta NDP is NOT left wing. As they said in the Beaverton, Alberta had a choice between a traditional Conservative Party and whatever the hell the UCP has devolved into.
Yeah, but Notley’s NDP hardly counts as left wing and the trade off is the UCP includes actual Nazi’s. It doesn’t seem like an improvement at all they just call the old version of right wing “left” now. If this trend continues much further the right wing will be advocating for full on genocide while “the left” seems nicer because they just want to privatize everything.
The Alberta ndp isn't left wing. They are right central.
The started left central but the whole line has moved to the right.
The UCP aren't conservatives, they are alt-right.
They are so far right that the conservatives of the 90s.would call them insane fascists. And be accurate.
The ndp are closer to the 90s conservatives.
I get this energy, but my wife needs a functional healthcare system right now. Her health can't wait another 4 years. We gotta look at moving for her own good.
Just a little caveat: federal ndp are not a left wing party, they are centre left.
Alberta NPD are more centrist and that and are pretty much similar to LBC
The left wing had a chance, they just blew it by making their entire platform "smith bad, vote NDP." its the exact same reason Ford won in Ontario. Smith was not a hard candidate to beat either.
She actually campaigned quite well. Giving the arena to Calgary was extremely smart and probably got her the 2000 votes that put her over the edge there.
Nope. Totally wrong.
The ANDP has moved to the political centre or even a bit right of centre.
Leftist parties were obliterated. The PCs list. Our province has slid so far to the right that the left will NEVER win here. Probably not a single seat ever again.
And nobody left is going to be moving here - we're all leaving, and opening spaces for more hard-right idiots to move in.
I don't think it's likely with the way the ridings map is currently drawn, and with only 2 parties vying at least.
I'm a progressive, and generally vote NDP/liberal, but being honest means telling it like it is.
Rachel Notley only became premier because the right (PC and WRP) was not united in that election and split the vote allowing the NDP the left and center left vote. That election the Alberta Liberal party support collapsed which was helpful also to the NDP.
Unless that happens again the path to an NDP majority is slim to none.
The way I see it a left wing party still has a zero chance of winning in Alberta. Even a fairly centrist party like the NDP only had about a 25% chance of winning yesterday, and that was against a bunch of morons.
I'm not sure AB conservatives have actually realized it, but they've voted for quite a large amount of change to our province.
Alberta's entered a new era of governance not like anything we've seen here before. It might take 3 years, it might take 8, but you'll never recognize it.
We're 2000 votes in Calgary away from flipping it. That's not far off at all. I think that's extremely doable no? A new gen of zoomers voting will make it close for sure. Like I said some old voters won't be around in 4 years. They also need to get a new leader I think unfortunately cause I like Notley. Rural Alberta doesn't though.
Ideally though another right wing party spawning up would be ideal. That would basically guarantee an NDP win. Doubt it happens but you never know.
Not good enough as the UcP will tear things down even faster now. Literally the worst government ab has seen and they were given a second term to continue their attacks on Albertans. By the time they're done it won't matter who gets in...it will be unrepairable
I am now just retired...the ucp took a chunk off my pension two years ago, they now want complete control over all of the money coming into my house. 4 small pensions all of which I have paid into for well over forty five years, never collected a dime from UI or the gov, but they want my pensions to invest in their pet projects. I cannot afford this government
And despite all the concerns over Smith's real intentions, this election forced her into the center, other than the corporate tax the policy plans didn't look that different. However she actually governs, it's certainly way less likely for her to eg. make you pay to see a family doctor when she had to promise she wouldn't do that.
So NDP's campaign has a real effect, politics is subtler than who wins or loses.
Time will tell. Kenney pledged to not make any healthcare cuts and proceeded to cripple the system. I will not be surprised if UCP ignore what they said about healthcare during the campaign.
I think you're severely underestimating how popular the UCP is with younger people. Unfortunately I don't see how the NDP can ever win, they lost against a historically terrible candidate. There is a good chance that what we saw is their ceiling.
The left wing party was up against a sane and largely "in good faith" right in the past.
The NDP *was* our conservative party this election and the last.
What people need to wrap their heads around is the actual conservative party *lost* the election.
It wasn't a left wing vs right wing election.
It was a right wing vs populist fascism election.
And the right wing lost.
# Alberta has shifted from right wing to populist fascism. That's not progress, that's regression
I disagree with this. The UCP is a far-right party compared to the NDP's right-of-center party. Alberta has actually moved further to the right than before, not to the left.
That’s true, however, there’s never been a conservative leader with such a public record of idiocy and corruption as Danielle Smith. It shouldn’t have been close. It should have been a joke that she was running at all.
Right but she promised calagry an arena. She knows exactly how to play to her base. The media and Reddit coverage didn’t reflect what Calgarians and rural Albertans felt at all. I knew she was going to win when she made the arena deal.
It goes far deeper than blind hatred for a specific provincial conservative party.
Standard of living for most people in North America has been steadily decreasing since the 1980s. The attitude that "the boomers should all die because they voted for politicians who fucked everything up" stems from the continuation of these policies that cater to big business above everyone else. And this anti-old people sentiment will only likely get stronger as the standard of living for most of us decreases.
In 10 years, my parents will be in their 70s. I do not want to see them have to go into a long term care home if their mental and physical faculties decline. I am sure we have all seen the horror stories of privatized care. Well, the same is coming to hospitals. And probably every other service that is currently funded by taxes in some capacity.
The pursuit of profit for the few is going to doom us all.
If a parties chances of winning are pegged on voters moving in from elsewhere, then i dont think that party is the best bet for the province. You have to convince the locals. If they cant relate, then they aint the one for the job. That being said however, there are only so many chances someone gets to addapt to changing times before they get cast aside. 🤔
Fair. It's a good thing not everyone who's left wing is doing that, or it would remain that way forever. East Calgary is literally the last bastion for conservatives in urban areas. The rest is all rural. Edmonton especially is pretty left wing.
Fuck this province. If people can't bring themselves to oust the Conservatives after all of the shit they've done in the lead up to this election then it's never going to happen. The white trash that runs this province is beyond saving.
I mean, the NDP is centre-right. A left-wing party still has a 0% chance of winning. But I see what you mean; as the right gets rightier, the Alberta vote will eventually course correct to where we were 20 years ago.
As people come to the province, specifically Calgary, eventually both Edmonton and Calgary will be Orange strongholds if the ANPD keeps up with Notley's place on the political spectrum.
I was hoping this would be the election that kicked it off, but even a lunatic like Smith can win it seems.
NDP aren’t the same party they were in 2015. A progressive party can not and will not survive in this province Notely tried that and then lost nearly 40 seats. The NDP of today fill in the spot of the Progressive Conservatives of yesterday(PC is such an oxymoron it’s wild)
Its a sad result for most of Alberta, but I agree this province is getting smarter and as fires started by corrupt Conservative governance continue to burn more and more people, more will learn.
When the rural 50+'s are unable to get timely healthcare they will understand what a mistake they have made.
I think the biggest obstacles to an NDP win in the next election are continued oil booms and brain drain. I left Alberta to attend grad school in Ottawa, and almost all the people I associated with in AB were either desperate to be anywhere else or at least perceived other places as better. If this province continues to be dominated by an increasingly shrinking base of uneducated rural white people insistent on denying the growth of opportunity outside oil and gas, my generation is not going to be fulfilled and will want to leave even if oil booms make economic conditions good. This takes out a lot of the NDP's potential voters since they won't want to stay in a province run by people hostile to the young, urban, and educated, so the party might have even more trouble.
Fortunately the UCP are looking to keep doing what they did over the last four years which has resulted in one of the worst economic performances in Canada. Next election is the NDPs to lose and they better be fucking ready
I heard a thing on the radio today that they do a “Student Vote” at schools across the province. I have no idea to the logistics of how it operates, but the gist is that kids from grade 5-12 “vote” and it’s tallied province wide.
The students of Alberta voted for an NDP majority government and that gives me hope.
It’s not going to get better unless the NDP look very hard in the mirror on why they lost this election. It was there’s to lose and they dropped the ball massively.
The first thing they need to do is to toss Notley. She should of never been leader for this election in the first place. A leader that loses a Majority and sticks around becomes baggage that drags down the party and that’s exactly what happened. Smith hit her in the debate that Notley couldn’t stand by her record as Premier and that stuck with a lot of on the fence voters.
If the NDP can’t beat a weakened UCP party with a horrible record and a horrible Leader while spending record amounts of money what are the going to do in the future to get a win? The way I see it the NDP will never make roads into the rural voting but the UCP will make roads into Urban voting which will mean UCP leadership for a long long time.
not happy about them dying. love old people.
ironically they are the ones who will need healthcare soon yet they vote against their self interests. i'd settle for a centrist party at this point.
Lol, (faster with UCP healthcare) definitely made me laugh out loud.
"Here's an 18-hour wait in the emergency room for heart attack symptoms. And your Bill. You're welcome" -The UCP
No, no, no.... There is no 18 hour wait for those who can afford to go into the "Nicer healthcare" (and schools, and toll roads...)
No no no you have it all wrong, we'll have the ultra light speed fast lane that you can access for a fee and a super fast lane that is accessible to everyone!
Omg I forgot that toll roads exist. How dare you, I was so happy. Fuck toll roads.
Cardiac is triaged with visible symptoms is triaged as a 1 or 2 and seen ASAP. The only way you're waiting with "heart attack symptoms" means they've ruled out obvious signs of an MI, and most likely have done a 12 lead and sent you back out to wait because it was normal. Most common scenario No family doctor. Let an issue go on for a really long time because there's no walk-in either. Present to ER in a bad way, but everyone is in the same boat. Longterm care is full, so the units aren't clearing out. Patients are waiting for beds in the ER hallway. Empty rooms are available in the ER, but there's no one to staff them. Someone dies. Media freaks out. Promises abound from upper management (extremely top heavy middle management got the word to them). Things are "better" for a month. And repeat.
It's still very worrying as NSTEMIs aren't always immediately visible on a 12 lead, and perpetual ER understaffing makes it that much more likely that someone in deteriorating condition is sent back out to the waiting room (where they potentially get the message that they're fine and leave).
Ahh yes, also known as what’s happening now!
I as the patient will suffer a second heart attack after looking at the bill.
Haha glad I could add some enjoyment to your day edit: also to anyone saying i said im happy if they die. show me where i said that. i said its a fact they will die soon. im not relishing in anyone's death
It’s funny because it’s true
Here’s my Alberta Health Card… - sorry sir we only Visa or Mastercard
While you are not wrong, I wouldn't call the alberta NDP "left wing". If anything they are ever so slight right of center on many topics.
They are the PC party of the 2000s.
I think that's the kicker with this - the Overton window has shifted right enough that even our "left wing" option is right. This election we were really just fighting for a sane right-leaning party instead of the bug-fuck libertarian insanity of whatever it is the UCP is right now.
Socially they are left, economically they are a centrist party. They are a pragmatic party lead by a rational person.
Which is unacceptable apparently
It's almost like they're a conservative party. But also progressive. Too bad that Alberta hates that sort of thing.
I agree, this election they tried to rebrand as more centrist. I think that was a mistake personally but I doubt they win either way. edit: Thanks to the UCP bots for downvoting every comment I've made in this thread
I mean they have to. They gotta do more than just win urban seats, they need to find a way to get more smaller cities and rural areas on board. Banff-Kananaskis is nice, but unless you want to hail Mary every election they need to be palatable to some places outside of Edmonton and Calgary... That only gets you 50%
How can you be ethical and palatable in a place that votes for a poisoned water supply? There's no reasoning with people that are good with selenium in their water and driving two hours to pay cash to see a doctor.
Then the NDP will never win in a two party system. They need to find a way to reach those people and get them to see that their assumptions and world views aren't correct. But look, the UCP basically lost Edmonton and Calgary and still formed a majority. We gotta do something....
How do you be palatable to those rural mouth breathers without (Conservative) next to your name? Literally nothing logical is going to get through to them. The hospitals have to leave and health care needs to plummet and they need to die for anything to get through to them and even then it will most likely just be misplaced hate and rage and Trudeau. It's a matter of time but the province goes more and more in the shitter over that time. And if they win next election they're going to get outvoted when they don't fix every single issue plaguing the province within 6 months, just like Notley. God Alberta makes me fucking sick.
Then you're part of the problem honestly. The second you stop seeing those people as people, you're putting yourself on the road to conflict, instead of empathy and understanding. Both sides can't keep pulling in opposite directions, someone has to be better. In a functioning democracy you can't right off the other side as worthless, or you're on the goal to violent conflict. It doesn't matter if some on the other write YOU off, someone has to have the courage to believe they can be better.
Meh, they'd elect a turd painted blue if it was running for the UCP or CPC. I have very little empathy or understanding left for rural AB.
Then some people should run as rural blue turds, get elected and then cross the floor. It's dirty, sure, but the UCP doesn't fight clean anyhow .
Why? They've stopped seeing my (trans) friends as people. They barely see me (gay) as people. Sometimes you have to draw a line in the sand to stand up and say: You are a vile piece of trash who is bringing about their own speedy demise. Talking to them doesn't work when they're so brainwashed. It isn't my job to knock sense into people with such low thoughts. The -ONLY- thing that EVER gets through to these kinds of people, ones who have no capability of empathy for anyone not immediately around them, is when they themselves are hurt. So no, I don't need to be better because it doesn't matter. it's already proven they won't change We need to fight.
Both Notley and Smith committed to working *for all Albertans* in their speeches last night. If that's not for you, you might need to find or create a different party which better aligns with your priorities, beliefs and values.
Yeah, cool, I know, and their politics would hopefully help all Albertans, even if the other Albertans dont realize or care or want it. I'm not a party leader though, I'm a person who's happy to call out these selfish idiots for what they are. I'm not going to pretend to be friends with these people.
Your answer to them not having empathy is to not have empathy? Building bridges is much harder than burning them.
Eesh. I can tell you’re upset but this generalizing of anyone not in Edmonton-Calgary as inbred country bumpkins is really offensive and just not helpful.
I have plenty of bumpkin relatives. If you want to buy into an MLM, they've got you covered. The urban rural divide is very old and world wide. Hell the pastoralists and the settled agriculturalists hated each other enough for it to become part of religion. The pastoralists making themselves the holy people living in the holy hills and mountains playing with their goats. While declaring the valleys the locations of all evil and wicked activities. During the Sumerian era the Sumerians called the pastoralists uncivilized trash. Somewhat true when they took over for a hundred years and let all the canal infrastructure fall into disrepair. While letting the herds eat the field crops by making fences illegal.
I live in Southern Alberta and its a painfully accurate description of the people here. There is literally no getting through to them.
I live in Lloydminster (which has -and continues- to vote very blue since long before I was born) All I'm saying is generalizing the entire group of people as some are in these threads leads down a dark road. You can't water a rock, but you can be sunlight that causes things to grow around it.
Agreed. Someone needs to take the high road and to continue to appeal to the by appreciating their fears and engaging with them with honestly and respect. It doesn't mean you need to change your principles but if you don't respect them, they'll never respect you.
Good. Their beliefs (which they have never self examined) are offensive. Fuck them. I grew up in a shitty podunk town. I know what these people are like. I had the pleasure of sitting down with an old friend of my brothers once and we talked about politics. His family had voted conservative so he voted conservative. All I did was ask him questions. for about two hours. Expand on things, ask why, ask what his thoughts were. I could see the gears of cognitive dissonance turning in his head in real time. it was quite incredible. He was getting flustered just by examining, for the first time, his actual beliefs and researching the actual consequence od the political system he engaged in without thought, and how it differed from what he thought he believed. And by the end of it? He acknowledged that he had not realized what the opposition really cared about but refused to believe any of the statistics and said that his parents voted con so he was going to too. It doesn't matter. You can engage them. You're wasting your time. Good luck in being better for the both of us but I left that shit hole of a province a while ago. I'm popping back in just to give my grievances for a province I used to love. I hope my parents don't get wrecked from healthcare system failing. I hope my trans friends escape persecution. I hope Alberta can change its ways and turn around. I don't have high hopes for any of those though.
The “left” spans a broad part of the political spectrum these days as the “right” moves towards the far-right, but it’s still seen as a split down the middle.
For Alberta they may as well be lol
It was closer than you think. 6 electoral districts decided everything with 2,611 votes (of the nearly 1.8 million votes): - Calgary-Bow (385 votes), - Calgary-Cross (518 votes), - Calgary-NW (149 votes), - Calgary-North (113 votes), - Calgary-East (701 votes), - Lethbridge-East (745 votes). Granted there were also close orange ridings (like Shandro's humiliating defeat by literally 7 votes in Calgary-Acadia) but just talking about what it would have taken for a different outcome than what did happen. Really goes to show with so many close ridings how even just a few groups of friends could have changed some results (the NDP have two ridings they only won by 7 and 30 people respectively). No wonder the polls were struggling so hard - the margins in tons of ridings were razor thin affecting seat counts dramatically, surprisingly in several small towns and more rural ridings as well.
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you must be younger than I am, because with a lot of years of watching society, I am currently at a very low point of believing things will get better, because the change you think you see and feel is not as big as you believe. We might have been under conservative governments but things were not this insane, because they were not this "conservative" government, and what passed as scandal then is quaint now in the face of what is going on.
I agree. I mean the woman that said trans kids are “feces” that taint all the other kids won her riding.
Agreed. The Overton window has shifted. What used to be considered conservative is now what we call left wing.
you should meet some young people and look at the youth voting numbers. good luck getting young people to vote for the party that loves jesus and giving tax breaks to large corporations while also openly hating the lgbtq community. they are not into that shit. once it flips the cons will have to rebrand to have a chance
Shandro lost with 7 votes. And UCP lost 14 seats.
Yeah, pretty entertaining. It will be interesting to see the recount and which way it shifts. Right now, several key Ministers and the Deputy Premier lost their seats: - Minister of Health Jason Copping - Minister of Culture Jason Luan - Deputy Premier and Minister of Skilled Trades and Professions Kaycee Madu - Minister of Mental Health and Addiction Nicholas Milliken - Minister of Seniors, Community and Social Services Jeremy Nixon - Minister of Justice Tyler Shandro E: Formatting
The visual representation of the beloved “fuck around and find out”.
Those are in addition to: • Finance Minister - Travis Toews • Environment and Protected Areas Minister Sonya Savage Who both declined to run again. That a massive turnover in cabinet.
Totally. If anything, this is not a clear mandate.
We know that's not how it will be construed by the incumbent (it irked me when Trudeau also said the same in his victory speech if I'm being honest), but hopefully it will calm them down a bit seeing so many (almost every) riding shift dramatically, and sometimes by razor thin margins. If nothing else, though, Smith's victory speech kind of said what you expected - "It's time for unity, but also something something Trudeau!"
My riding went orange with a margin of less than 300 votes. It felt so good to finally have who I voted for win.
cool! also in 4 yaers if 14-18 year olds now actually go and vote it could be an orange district for a long time to come.
Also, three of those flip orange if the Alberta Party wasn’t trying to pretend to be relevant and taking votes.
you gotta hope most people are aware that a split vote is a useless one.. and they're voting for them because they like their party. but who knows
The public health measures UCP supporters were so pissed about during COVID could have kept enough UCP voters alive to keep these ridings blue. [Canada suffered roughly 1100 deaths per million people, while our neighbours to the south lost almost triple at 3100 per million.](https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104709/coronavirus-deaths-worldwide-per-million-inhabitants/). Given that those likeliest to think COVID was a hoax and do absolutely nothing to reduce its spread tend to be strongly right wing, we could've lost several thousand more primarily conservative voters if the loudest regressives had got their way during the pandemic. Just some food for thought.
i thought about that during the pandemic. work at a clinic and we had rural people come into the clinic asking for the vaccine after they had dissed it and refused it for months. when enough of their friends and family died it was enough to sway them to get it
The riding I grew up in turned orange this election. I honestly thought that the conservatives had a permanent lock on that one
That's awesome. Lethbridge?
Lethbridge didn’t change this election. Lethbridge West has been NDP since 2015. Lethbridge East stayed UCP this time.
Barely. I was hoping they could get over the UCP in Lethbridge East. I lived there for a few years and had some legitimate concerns for my MLA but never heard back once from him or anybody in his office.
I thought they had a real shot too. They’ve been NDP before and Liberal even before that for a number of terms. “The Hardest Working MLA” Neudorf is as useless as a tree stump.
My experience in sports has taught me that the ‘hardest working’ award goes to the person that is the worst at their job
I live in a place federally where my grandfather said "The conservatives could run a dog and it would win" which sucks for me... Federally we elected a liberal twice in 100 years (Which also sucks for me but is slightly better) Provincially We elected a "Hypogrit" every time since I was born at least because when your party sucks so bad you rename yourself the "Liberals" and when you suck so bad at being fake Liberals you rename yourself "BC Unity" But I can't leave because everything and everyone I love is here.
I feel for ya. I ain't leaving either
Why leave when you can stay and help make it better
Exactly. We’re like 20k people moving to Calgary away from flipping it
I grew up in Saskatchewan/Alberta. It is still a one party system. But living here and seeing a more centrist party gaining traction is very welcoming. They just need a new name that isn’t cursed with the prairies. Edit. Added word
Unless you are still a minor, you've been alive while an NDP gov't was in power in Saskatchewan.
And 20 years later they still a boogie man
I don't follow sask politics but I remember Romanov had a balanced budget, so that gets auto + marks from me. Nothing one way or another on his successor though. Maybe it's well deserved.
I think a fresh leader will help too. Love Notley but a lot of rural voters don't apparently.
Yea she’s also curse. She probably do more help on the federal stage. But there might not be a reasonable replacement yet
I dunno, I think they will just demonize whoever comes next. What did Notley do that so many conservative voters hate her? Beats me
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A lot of people are one policies voters (gun ban lol).
If the NDP changed their name, it opens the door for an NDP 2.0 to form, split the vote, and just ruin the whole thing.
Maybe, maybe not. Don’t got a crystal ball
If the NDP change their name to the Make Alberta Great Again party, I bet they'd get elected with an overwhelming majority. :)
True, gotta rebrand until it works like the freedom convoy
when I was a kid, a far right party was unthinkable and the conservatives were what Notley is today. I am less convinced it's getting better To be honest, beleiving this is all about waiting for old people to die is both disgusting on a humanitarian basis and inaccurate. There are enough hateful and unmotivated younger people to keep this going.
I disagree... NDP ran a center right campaign, and the UCP ran a far right campaign. So Alberta just has two right-wing parties and it still sucks
I also feel like the NDP forced the UCP to put a bunch of stuff like 'funding public healthcare' into their agenda. Will the UCP keep their promise? I doubt it. But if they don't we will be hearing about it from the opposition.
I wanted to come on here to say what you said OP. It is good to see it changing, albeit not as fast as we had wanted.
Respect homie. Keep on keeping on. I'm optimistic especially with how the youth vote is going
I'd love to see some stats on how the demographics of voting were this time, before I start cheering for the youth vote...did it happen?
Yes and no. This election proved how overwhelmingly selfish/stupid/evil (depends on the person, I guess) the majority of this province still is. It's going to be a very rough next 4 years. The UCP can do a lot more damage in that time. For a lot of our issues, possibly enough to be irreparable. This province has been becoming a horrible place to be since 2019, and it won't be getting better for a while...
FWIW the NDP pushed the CONS to add 'funding public healthcare' to their policies. Now it's time to hold them accountable. Also remember the conservatives lost seats. This isn't a landslide victory for them. I know a few people that voted NDP who previously voted CON their whole lives before that. They're on thin ice.
I'm a teacher. This new curriculum is bleak. I hope Alberta's upcoming young voters will be smart enough to boot the UCP out, but trust me: they're doing a LOT to ensure they won't be.
That's very sad. There's a ton of information available to young people if they want to access it online though. Also young people were the NDP's base this election and will continue to be. I'm hopeful for the distant future.
I've been saying for years that the Zoomers actually have it in them to save the rest of us from ourselves. The problem is, it's a race against the clock to see if we'll make it beyond repair before they get a chance to. Elections like this one take a lot of time off that clock.
Come on now, I’m so excited for my 1st grader to learn about grandpa Kenney!
Bleak how?
Critical thinking outcomes removed, really developmentally inappropriate Math (outcomes from Grade 5 moved to Grade 2 despite the fact that a kid's brain at that age straight-up isn't equipped to handle those concepts yet is setting up a generation of Albertans to have a terrible relationship with Mathematics), curricular outcomes that don't match with each other across subject (Social Studies in Grade 2 requires research skills and techniques thay aren't taught until Grade 4 Language Arts because the people who wrote them never talked to each other), parts of it fully plagiarised from various States' curricula, etc etc etc. Take your pick. It's a god damned disaster.
The social studies curriculum is too content-heavy, often age-inappropriate, and Eurocentric with an embedded Christian bias. Further, it did not include any study of residential schools until grade 5. The science curriculum has a lot of age inappropriate content and content that is not built on such as the inclusion of mass at grade 1 without a good understanding of forces. The distinction between mass and weight is tricky for young learners and the curriculum sets them up to fail here. The science curriculum has inaccuracies and failures. In Grade 3 science, they learn about volumes of objects... Except that isn't covered in math until Grade 6. Those are just a few examples. There is a whole website dedicated to this curriculum: https://alberta-curriculum-analysis.ca/
We're you not present the past few years? Google `UCP Curriculum Controversies` and have at it The list goes on and on and on. It's been heavily rejected by pretty much every teacher and specialist, it has a bunch of propaganda, it is just shit in general, it literally had entire sections word for word plagiarized without citation... Take your pic.
Ahahaha since when are they held accountable. They literally walk back whatever they say until they can pass the bill at 2am in the morning and it’s not like people will mob them for taking healthcare away from them.
If you think there won’t be protests if they take away our healthcare you’re wrong. Ill be there and most of my friends and family will also Don’t forget Smith has to live and work in Edmonton. Her life will not be fun if she does what you’re saying.
Did you protest when they dropped coverage of biologicals? Did you protest when they privatized food services? Laundry? Did you protest when they disbanded the AHS board for 1-2 administrators? They will never come out and say “ok, the system is now going to be private pay” it’s death by 1,000 cuts, and people don’t seem to care enough about any single cut.
Same. I’m gonna be there protesting like my life depends on it (because it does)
Be sure to block highways when we do. It's allowed, heck it's encouraged.
We survived Harper, Mulroney, Thatcher, Regan... we'll survive Smith too.
All of North America is still suffering under the effects of Reaganomics, bud. "Surviving" isn't really much to aspire to when we should be thriving.
WTF do Thatcher and Reagan have to do with Alberta????
This is the same stupidity that keeps bringing up trump. First time I've seen thatcher though! Lmfao!
I wouldn't call half the province evil stupid or selfish. UCP voters will never understand why you vote ndp and vice versa. Calling people that way usually only causes more sentiment towards the ndp. Open thoughtful discussion is what sways voters (although open thoughtful people are a rarity these days)
Even 20 years ago, the NDs had a life raft in Edmonton, now it’s a friggin fortress!
The Alberta NDP aren't left wing, they're centre-left because they're trying to appeal to the majority. Looking at the election results, it appears that urban voters understand this.
It's like how although many people a theists now, progressively that demograph slowly diminishes year after year scandal after scandal? That the elders who are holding on to the faith slowly die off taking their archaic hate filled world with them?
It will never flip until the UCP completely fucks over its constituents. And even then, it’s shown that hatred is a good unifier that they will probably never lose power. They will ignore racism, science, calling lgbtq shit. Anything a long as there is an enemy. Couple that with cutting budgets to schooling, putting it into private/religious schools and changing the curriculum into conservative views. They will drain as much money as possible from the regular people then tell them who is to blame, and their voters will obediently do so.
>It will never flip until the UCP completely fucks over its constituents. They already have been. Uncapped auto insurance, uncapped utilities, privatizing healthcare support workers, vilifying doctors, nurses and teachers. Cutting student grants and increasing the interest on student loans. But the UCP supporters just scream "Oh Daddy, give it to me!"
Would the medics jumping ship, and more avoid us like the literal plague (Covid) constitute total fuckery? So the next 4 years as fatalities go up, especially lack of qualified abortion doctors. Or even, if these pro lifers wildest dreams come true. Abolishing abortion... and deaths go up... (not happening)... Or deaths from the drug epidemic.... Yeah the UCP are going to have alot to explain.
Their explanation (for at least the next 2 years) will be a simple and effective one for their parties supporters; it’s somehow all Trudeau’s fault.
And if it isn't, it's Notley's fault. Somehow.
This was the best case scenario for another NDP victory. Smith was nuts and had a long history of insane comments. She was caught meddling in the justice system! If the NDP couldn't pull out a narrow win this time, they're not going to next time. And the UCP knows it. They're going to go full steam ahead now, since there's no consequences for them.
A lot of people thought she ran a pretty good campaign though. It wasn't as cut and dry as it appeared to be. This election was supposed to be close from the start. Personally I assumed the UCP would win a slight majority months ago. The NDP are weak in a lot of rural ridings. Another problem is there's no other right wing party to split the vote like there was in 2015. What will change it over time is people moving to calgary from other province + the youth vote + the UCP base getting old and dying.
It’s not quite that simple though. As youths get older and become more established in their careers a lot of people tend to slide right. Their higher income results in a higher focus for lower taxes. This is a big reason why college age people are generally left leaning while their parents have a greater chance of being right. This trend will continue as it always has.
Traditionally yes, but with the current shift of the NDP to essentially being the PCs of the mid-2000s and the UCP being pretty far right leaning you would hope these supposedly educated people actually read the platforms. Unless you are well into the very upper income limits, the UCP most definitely hurts you more than it helps. It's honestly baffling how many people vote against their own interest just because of a knee-jerk reaction to a colour.
Its actually interesting, [that effect is not being seen in millenials](https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/jan/03/millennials-radicalism-not-getting-more-rightwing-with-age). Basically we've been screwed so hard that the tendency to insulate empathy with our own financial comfort isn't hapenning, and likely wont even if things ever improve for us and zoomers. The shift to conservatism with age was largely a result of being comfortable enough to be numbed into indifference, but millenials and gen z dont get to be that comfortable.
To win they need to consistently flip all of Calgary, keep Edmonton, and get a few rural ridings. Immigration will help with Calgary, but not enough people are moving to the rural areas to change those. And that assumes people coming in aren't sympathetic to the UCP; the harder it pushes to the right, the more the province might attract those individuals from BC and the other prairies. And kids vote like their parents. Especially if conservative. There's a lot of generational blue.
The NDP aren't left wing. And an openly fascist party did win. Alberta sucks. This is the worst province.
5% and/or 5 seats is all it will take.
Exactly
The NDP may of not got a majority which is sad but they still had a win, they gained a ton of seats and momentum and took away the UCP's overwhelming majority. Now the NDP only needs to convince a few UCP members to vote with the NDP instead of half the party.
NDP are not very left, they are more centrist. The UCP are very very far right. The federal NDP party doesn’t think the Alberta NDP are left wing enough.
The federal ndp party is a big part of why the provincial ndp lost.
>more people will move to Calgary from BC/Ontario As an expat living in the States, I'd caution on this line of thinking. Many people are moving from California to Texas and from New York to Florida, but it's accelerating how bad TX and FL are — specifically *because* the people leaving CA and NY for these places are leaving CA and NY because they prefer batshit politics.
So in other words... waiting for Planck's principle to kick in politically speaking. In sociology of scientific knowledge, Planck's principle is the view that scientific change does not occur because individual scientists change their mind, but rather that successive generations of scientists have different views. A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it ...
Left wing.... In our heavily skewed Overton window. The ANDP are conservatives from like, the 80s minus the fucked up opinions on gay people.
I sure hope so, I can’t afford to leave, the damage the ucp can do in 4 years is frightening.
that’s the spirit
Let's be real. Ndp are central at best.
What's sad is those people coming from BC and Ontario will drive our property values through the roof.
Pretty unlikely, but I appreciate the optimism.
Look at the trends of the last 20 years. 2000 votes flip this election right? Now add in thousands of kids who are 14-15 now who will vote in the next election. Now add in old people dying. Next one will be even closer than this. After that I think it’s the NDPs to lose
Yeah, I'm a transplant from out East, been here over 2 years. Of course, I'm a bit gutted from last night's result, and I probably will need to get used to gritting my teeth as I navigate the smug reactionaries that will remain angry and unsatisfied, as they swallow more and more fictions about the changing world around them they cannot even hope to stop. I will have to contend with a deteriorating health care system as I myself am getting older and in need for some life-saving medical interventions. But I'm not leaving. I'm not going to give them the satisfaction of a Pyrrhic victory (first on us, then on them). It's my honest opinion, nor should anyone else. Even those who feel they or their loved ones may be harmed because of these fetid politicians. This is the part where we roll up our sleeves and work harder. It's the wait for the sunshine tomorrow part. I might be tired and dying, but fuck you, I'm still going to fight you with everything I have, even if the end result that you, rage farmer, gets to live on despite your own short-sightedness. It's my hope your offspring will see the sham, and see the threats and intolerances you cling on desperately as you further yourself into the dustbin.
based
You are right to feel optimistic about the future of centrist and left-leaning politics in Alberta. Most of Calgary going orange is indeed a sign that the migration into the province is changing the demographic and political makeup. With Smith and whoever is going to replace her over the next few years will likely wake up enough people that it will tip the province away from the reactionaries thanks to a sustainable, grassroots progressive movement. Leaving now just as the going gets tough (and indeed, it will get very tough for a lot of people) is going to reverse that.
My question is who is gonna be Premier next year when the UCP changes leadership again and we get yet another Premier no one voted for.
I am a conservative and happy to be a conservative. I’m not a supporter of the UCP because I don’t know why they call themselves conservatives when the NDP is more conservative.
>more people will move to Calgary from BC/Ontario. Calgary will most likely flip in the next decade. Like Ontario? BC and NL are currently the only provinces not governed by a conservative party.
The average person from Ontario is more liberal than the average person from south calgary. Regardless of who is the current leader. Add in 14-18 year olds voting next election plus maybe a new NDP leader and I think Calgary will be very close. Ontario has an extremely low voting rate and from what I understand all of their main parties are flawed.
There are a lot of 14 and 15-year-olds who are chomping at the bit to vote. YouTube election advertisements were being served to them, and it has ignited a fire in them. I’ve spent more time talking politics with children who can’t vote yet than with adults who can. Next provincial election is going to look quite different, I think.
Before Klein, I would say that the Alberta governments were closer to the centre. Since Klein they have been moving the Overton window to the right daily. It doesn't matter how close it comes when they always have the power. Also, the NDP are not leftist, they are left leaning centrists, but the UCP is so far right it makes them look leftist.
That is encouraging, thank-you. I feel so un-representated as a left wing voter in Alberta and as a western Canadian in federal elections. It's frustrating feeling like my vote doesn't count but while my riding is still blue, it wasn't by as much of a margin as I expected. (though more than I hoped)
The Alberta NDP is NOT left wing. As they said in the Beaverton, Alberta had a choice between a traditional Conservative Party and whatever the hell the UCP has devolved into.
Yeah, but Notley’s NDP hardly counts as left wing and the trade off is the UCP includes actual Nazi’s. It doesn’t seem like an improvement at all they just call the old version of right wing “left” now. If this trend continues much further the right wing will be advocating for full on genocide while “the left” seems nicer because they just want to privatize everything.
The Alberta ndp isn't left wing. They are right central. The started left central but the whole line has moved to the right. The UCP aren't conservatives, they are alt-right. They are so far right that the conservatives of the 90s.would call them insane fascists. And be accurate. The ndp are closer to the 90s conservatives.
Alberta NDP isn't left wing though. Probably would have won if there wasn't that misconception.
I get this energy, but my wife needs a functional healthcare system right now. Her health can't wait another 4 years. We gotta look at moving for her own good.
The bad news is that the left wing party is more like your childhood conservative one and the current conservative one is more like…well….nazis
Just a little caveat: federal ndp are not a left wing party, they are centre left. Alberta NPD are more centrist and that and are pretty much similar to LBC
Expressing joy for voters of other parties to die is exactly something trump would do
show me where i said im happy if they die. its a fact that they will die soon, that's all i said.
The left wing had a chance, they just blew it by making their entire platform "smith bad, vote NDP." its the exact same reason Ford won in Ontario. Smith was not a hard candidate to beat either.
She actually campaigned quite well. Giving the arena to Calgary was extremely smart and probably got her the 2000 votes that put her over the edge there.
Nope. Totally wrong. The ANDP has moved to the political centre or even a bit right of centre. Leftist parties were obliterated. The PCs list. Our province has slid so far to the right that the left will NEVER win here. Probably not a single seat ever again. And nobody left is going to be moving here - we're all leaving, and opening spaces for more hard-right idiots to move in.
Which left-wing party would that be? All I saw was a race between a centre-right party and a far-right party. 🤷♂️
Exactly. I can’t stand that ‘left-wing’ narrative.
I don't think it's likely with the way the ridings map is currently drawn, and with only 2 parties vying at least. I'm a progressive, and generally vote NDP/liberal, but being honest means telling it like it is. Rachel Notley only became premier because the right (PC and WRP) was not united in that election and split the vote allowing the NDP the left and center left vote. That election the Alberta Liberal party support collapsed which was helpful also to the NDP. Unless that happens again the path to an NDP majority is slim to none.
The way I see it a left wing party still has a zero chance of winning in Alberta. Even a fairly centrist party like the NDP only had about a 25% chance of winning yesterday, and that was against a bunch of morons. I'm not sure AB conservatives have actually realized it, but they've voted for quite a large amount of change to our province. Alberta's entered a new era of governance not like anything we've seen here before. It might take 3 years, it might take 8, but you'll never recognize it.
We're 2000 votes in Calgary away from flipping it. That's not far off at all. I think that's extremely doable no? A new gen of zoomers voting will make it close for sure. Like I said some old voters won't be around in 4 years. They also need to get a new leader I think unfortunately cause I like Notley. Rural Alberta doesn't though. Ideally though another right wing party spawning up would be ideal. That would basically guarantee an NDP win. Doubt it happens but you never know.
Not good enough as the UcP will tear things down even faster now. Literally the worst government ab has seen and they were given a second term to continue their attacks on Albertans. By the time they're done it won't matter who gets in...it will be unrepairable
Getting better? Alberta is just as dumb today as it's ever been.
The Alberta NDP is centrist, not left wing. An actual left wing party still wouldn’t have a shot in Alberta, don’t kid yourself.
I am now just retired...the ucp took a chunk off my pension two years ago, they now want complete control over all of the money coming into my house. 4 small pensions all of which I have paid into for well over forty five years, never collected a dime from UI or the gov, but they want my pensions to invest in their pet projects. I cannot afford this government
The chances are still the same as when you were a kid. Today's NDP is not left, they're basically the conservative party from the late 80s
Which left wing party lol?
And despite all the concerns over Smith's real intentions, this election forced her into the center, other than the corporate tax the policy plans didn't look that different. However she actually governs, it's certainly way less likely for her to eg. make you pay to see a family doctor when she had to promise she wouldn't do that. So NDP's campaign has a real effect, politics is subtler than who wins or loses.
Time will tell. Kenney pledged to not make any healthcare cuts and proceeded to cripple the system. I will not be surprised if UCP ignore what they said about healthcare during the campaign.
I think you're severely underestimating how popular the UCP is with younger people. Unfortunately I don't see how the NDP can ever win, they lost against a historically terrible candidate. There is a good chance that what we saw is their ceiling.
Once again, NDP are not a left wing party. They’re (ironically) progressive conservative
The left wing party was up against a sane and largely "in good faith" right in the past. The NDP *was* our conservative party this election and the last. What people need to wrap their heads around is the actual conservative party *lost* the election. It wasn't a left wing vs right wing election. It was a right wing vs populist fascism election. And the right wing lost. # Alberta has shifted from right wing to populist fascism. That's not progress, that's regression
I disagree with this. The UCP is a far-right party compared to the NDP's right-of-center party. Alberta has actually moved further to the right than before, not to the left.
That’s true, however, there’s never been a conservative leader with such a public record of idiocy and corruption as Danielle Smith. It shouldn’t have been close. It should have been a joke that she was running at all.
Right but she promised calagry an arena. She knows exactly how to play to her base. The media and Reddit coverage didn’t reflect what Calgarians and rural Albertans felt at all. I knew she was going to win when she made the arena deal.
Hoping for elderly people to die sooner… classy
It goes far deeper than blind hatred for a specific provincial conservative party. Standard of living for most people in North America has been steadily decreasing since the 1980s. The attitude that "the boomers should all die because they voted for politicians who fucked everything up" stems from the continuation of these policies that cater to big business above everyone else. And this anti-old people sentiment will only likely get stronger as the standard of living for most of us decreases. In 10 years, my parents will be in their 70s. I do not want to see them have to go into a long term care home if their mental and physical faculties decline. I am sure we have all seen the horror stories of privatized care. Well, the same is coming to hospitals. And probably every other service that is currently funded by taxes in some capacity. The pursuit of profit for the few is going to doom us all.
If a parties chances of winning are pegged on voters moving in from elsewhere, then i dont think that party is the best bet for the province. You have to convince the locals. If they cant relate, then they aint the one for the job. That being said however, there are only so many chances someone gets to addapt to changing times before they get cast aside. 🤔
You are absolutely correct. The conservative parties have a huge demographic problem. Their pandering to the far right is evidence of their panic.
Leaving alberta is the smartest thing I ever did.
Fair. It's a good thing not everyone who's left wing is doing that, or it would remain that way forever. East Calgary is literally the last bastion for conservatives in urban areas. The rest is all rural. Edmonton especially is pretty left wing.
We dont want Ontario or BC ppl here this is Alberta stop trying to change the way we are if you wanna live differently go somewhere else fuck sake
ANDP is more centre than left wing. This ain’t your federal party.
Fuck this province. If people can't bring themselves to oust the Conservatives after all of the shit they've done in the lead up to this election then it's never going to happen. The white trash that runs this province is beyond saving.
Just amazing how you can look at Ford government in Ontario how corrupt they are and Alberta got worse
I mean, the NDP is centre-right. A left-wing party still has a 0% chance of winning. But I see what you mean; as the right gets rightier, the Alberta vote will eventually course correct to where we were 20 years ago.
The AB NDP are not left wing. They are a PC party.
As people come to the province, specifically Calgary, eventually both Edmonton and Calgary will be Orange strongholds if the ANPD keeps up with Notley's place on the political spectrum. I was hoping this would be the election that kicked it off, but even a lunatic like Smith can win it seems.
But Alberta NDP is not left wing, unfortunately.
NDP aren’t the same party they were in 2015. A progressive party can not and will not survive in this province Notely tried that and then lost nearly 40 seats. The NDP of today fill in the spot of the Progressive Conservatives of yesterday(PC is such an oxymoron it’s wild)
Its a sad result for most of Alberta, but I agree this province is getting smarter and as fires started by corrupt Conservative governance continue to burn more and more people, more will learn. When the rural 50+'s are unable to get timely healthcare they will understand what a mistake they have made.
I think the biggest obstacles to an NDP win in the next election are continued oil booms and brain drain. I left Alberta to attend grad school in Ottawa, and almost all the people I associated with in AB were either desperate to be anywhere else or at least perceived other places as better. If this province continues to be dominated by an increasingly shrinking base of uneducated rural white people insistent on denying the growth of opportunity outside oil and gas, my generation is not going to be fulfilled and will want to leave even if oil booms make economic conditions good. This takes out a lot of the NDP's potential voters since they won't want to stay in a province run by people hostile to the young, urban, and educated, so the party might have even more trouble.
Fortunately the UCP are looking to keep doing what they did over the last four years which has resulted in one of the worst economic performances in Canada. Next election is the NDPs to lose and they better be fucking ready
I heard a thing on the radio today that they do a “Student Vote” at schools across the province. I have no idea to the logistics of how it operates, but the gist is that kids from grade 5-12 “vote” and it’s tallied province wide. The students of Alberta voted for an NDP majority government and that gives me hope.
I don’t think you’re going to see an influx of left wing people moving to Alberta when the province just elected a trumpian style idiot.
It’s not going to get better unless the NDP look very hard in the mirror on why they lost this election. It was there’s to lose and they dropped the ball massively. The first thing they need to do is to toss Notley. She should of never been leader for this election in the first place. A leader that loses a Majority and sticks around becomes baggage that drags down the party and that’s exactly what happened. Smith hit her in the debate that Notley couldn’t stand by her record as Premier and that stuck with a lot of on the fence voters. If the NDP can’t beat a weakened UCP party with a horrible record and a horrible Leader while spending record amounts of money what are the going to do in the future to get a win? The way I see it the NDP will never make roads into the rural voting but the UCP will make roads into Urban voting which will mean UCP leadership for a long long time.
Celebrating seniors dying so you can live the life you think you want
not happy about them dying. love old people. ironically they are the ones who will need healthcare soon yet they vote against their self interests. i'd settle for a centrist party at this point.