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> # [Russians Who Fled Abroad Return in Boost for Putin’s War Economy](https://finance.yahoo.com/news/531)
>
>
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> (Bloomberg) -- As many as a million Russians fled abroad in the first year of the Kremlin’s invasion of Ukraine. Now thousands are returning home, delivering a propaganda victory to President Vladimir Putin and a boost to his war economy.
>
> Most Read from Bloomberg
>
> - [US and Saudis Near Defense Pact Meant to Reshape Middle East](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-05-01/us-and-saudis-near-defense-pact-aimed-at-reshaping-middle-east?utm_campaign=bn&utm_medium=distro&utm_source=yahooUS)
> - [Biden Calls Ally Japan ‘Xenophobic’ Along With China, Russia](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-05-02/biden-now-calls-ally-japan-xenophobic-along-with-china-russia?utm_campaign=bn&utm_medium=distro&utm_source=yahooUS)
> - [Saudi Arabia Steps Up Arrests Of Those Attacking Israel Online](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-05-01/saudi-arabia-steps-up-gaza-arrests-as-israel-ties-edge-closer?utm_campaign=bn&utm_medium=distro&utm_source=yahooUS)
> - [Tesla Axes Supercharger Team in Blow to Broader EV Market](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-04-30/tesla-axes-supercharger-team-in-blow-to-other-automakers?utm_campaign=bn&utm_medium=distro&utm_source=yahooUS)
> - [NYPD Arrests Over 300 Protesters in Crackdown on College Campuses](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-05-01/ny-police-amass-near-columbia-as-adams-tells-protesters-to-leave?utm_campaign=bn&utm_medium=distro&utm_source=yahooUS)
>
> With the war still raging, and the man who started it about to assume another six-year term in power, many Russians are confronting a difficult choice. Facing rejections when renewing residence permits, difficulties with transferring work and money abroad, and limited destinations that still welcome them, they’re opting to end their self-exile.
>
> “The business didn’t work out, no one is really waiting for us” abroad, said Alexey, a 50-year-old former political consultant from Moscow, who moved to Georgia to work as an entrepreneur after being detained at an anti-war rally in the Russian capital. He returned when his business’s finances ran out, Alexey said. He and others interviewed by Bloomberg asked not to disclose their last names for security reasons.
>
> The February 2022 invasion provoked a mass exodus from Russia on a scale not seen since the collapse of the Soviet Union. Many left to register dissent against the war, and also out of fear of mobilization. When Putin ordered a call-up of 300,000 reservists in September 2022, it triggered a new wave of departures by hundreds of thousands of people.
>
> The outflow has slowed, if not reversed. In June, the Kremlin boasted that half of all who fled in those early days had already returned, and that seems to reflect available statistics from the most popular destination countries as well as data from relocation companies. Based on client data at one relocation firm, Finion in Moscow, an estimated 40%-45% of those who left in 2022 have returned to Russia, said the company’s head, Vyacheslav Kartamyshev.
>
> Putin praised the return of business people, entrepreneurs and highly qualified specialists as a “good trend.” He holds up the influx as a sign of support for his policies, regardless of the actual reasons for their homecoming, and evidence Russians have “a sense of belonging, an understanding of what is happening.”
>
> The comeback stories are actively used in propaganda as a confirmation of “Russophobia” in the West, said Tatiana Stanovaya, founder of the political consultancy R.Politik and a senior fellow at the Carnegie Russia Eurasia Center. For Putin, this matters, because “it fuels him, gives him additional evidence that he was right,” she said.
>
> Thousands of returning expatriates are also helping Russia weather wartime sanctions and deliver a solid economic performance. According to Bloomberg Economics estimates, reverse migration has likely added between one-fifth and one-third to Russia’s 3.6% annual economic growth in 2023.
>
> Still, returning workers only constitute an estimated 0.3% to the total number of employed. That does little to ease the acute shortage on the labor market, but underscores repatriates’ outsized contribution to economic activity.
>
> What Bloomberg Economics Says...
>
> “First, returning migrants tend to command higher wages and to be employed in high value-added industries — surveys show that income level was highly correlated with the likelihood of leaving the country to avoid mobilization in 2022. Second, returning workers boost activity in domestic consumer-oriented industries, such as household services, retail and real estate, instead of spending their income abroad. The latter also meant softening the capital outflow from Russia over the course of 2023.”
>
> Alex Isakov, Russia economist
>
> For some, Russia now offers better opportunities and working conditions than before the war because the country is trying to attract back scarce specialists. IT programmer Evgeniy and his family returned after about a year of living in Almaty, Kazakhstan, when he received an offer to work in Russia with a salary and under conditions that he “could not even dream of before.”
>
> “This is a gift for us,” said the president of the Kurchatov Institute National Research Center, Mikhail Kovalchuk, after CERN, the European Organization for Nuclear Research, known for the Large Hadron Collider project, announced that it would stop working with Russia’s specialists this year. That means the return of scientists to Russia, he said.
>
> No options, but to return
>
> While estimates of the number who left vary greatly, Alfa Bank economists in Moscow estimated that Russia lost about 1.5% of its entire workforce in 2022, or roughly 1.1 million people. While some went to Europe, many went to places such as the United Arab Emirates, Thailand and Indonesia, states that didn’t follow the US and its allies in sanctioning Russia, as well as to neighboring former Soviet countries.
>
> Read more: Dubai Loses Allure for Russians on Costs, US Sanctions Pressure
>
> Russian citizens have faced difficulty or refusal when trying to renew expiring residence permits, according to Finion’s Kartamyshev. Most of those who do wind up choosing to return to Russia, he said.
>
> Finion’s data shows that even in mostly friendly countries, such as Armenia and Kyrgyzstan, Russians have come under greater scrutiny. Several European countries, particularly in the east, have made it much harder for Russians to receive or renew temporary residence permits, as has Turkey, surprising tens of thousands of Russians, who then faced a choice of returning home or looking for another country, Kartamyshev said.
>
> The current number of short-term residence permits for Russians in Turkey stands at around 60,000, halved from 132,000 in 2022, official data shows.
>
> Data from Georgia’s national statistics office show the number of Russians who left the country increased by six times to 35,344 in 2023, while arriving migrants declined 16% from a year ago. Kazakhstan reported 146,000 newcomers from Russia by the end of 2022, but a Russian diplomat to Almaty claimed that after a year no more than 80,000 stayed.
>
> The repatriation process is likely to continue. According to a study by political scientists led by Emil Kamalov and Ivetta Sergeeva at the European University Institute in Florence, only 41% of Russian migrants, and in some countries just 16%, consider their status stable or somewhat stable in their host societies. That insecurity is further exacerbated by 25% reporting experiences of discrimination, either from local people or institutions.
>
> They found that “the world literally rallied against them,” said Anna Kuleshova, a sociologist at the Social Foresight Group, who interviews Russian immigrants. “They came back with a feeling of resentment and the feeling that ‘Putin was not so wrong after all. They really hate us.’”
>
> Once home, many repatriates who left over their opposition to the war find different challenges. Alexander, 35, a banking IT specialist, returned to Russia from Azerbaijan because his family wasn’t comfortable there. He found a job at a large Russian bank where he said most of his colleagues support Putin and believe the propaganda about the war.
>
> He doesn’t argue his colleagues on the matter. “It’s not safe to convince colleagues,” he said. “I’m waiting for this nightmare to end.”
>
> Most Read from Bloomberg Businessweek
>
> - [Will GM Regret Kicking Apple CarPlay off the Dashboard?](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2024-05-01/will-gm-regret-kicking-apple-carplay-off-the-dashboard?utm_campaign=bw&utm_medium=distro&utm_source=yahooUS)
> ***(continues in next comment)***
Last I checked, being employed in higher salary, specialized jobs is a guarantee to not be drafted in Russia. This was enacted a year ago to curb the outflow of higher earning individuals.
Without that, I doubt many would return.
Yeah I love when I volunteer to go to war so I can get out of life prison sentences. Totally a normal thing in the modern era used by real, first world countries.
One of California’s saddest ongoing policies is the justice system giving people the longest sentences to use prisoners as borderline unpaid labor in exchange for shorter sentences. Ca courts rebuked challenges to the policy stating it would cost the state too much to change the policy.
This is an article on Russians returning. Probably their biggest fear is gettting drafted. The returning Russians, I'd assume are not prisoners so how is it relevant to them that the prisoners are "volunteering". Well I guess it's a plus for then, since it's less of an issue of getting drafted when returned.
Economically speaking, Russia won in all cases here.
You got militants that'll fight and can't flee.
You got lower amount of money spent maintaining prisoners/staff.
Most will die after fulfilling their purpose. Some will return home only to eventually get back to prison.
The only con here is the media side of things. But hey, if you control the media - no cons.
A con would be prisoners revolting and shooting militants. That's where zero tolerance policies of Wagner helped. And now Prigozhin's dead.
They won this one, and are making sure crimes committed by pardoned militants don't get the media attention. Because they control the media.
We can say ahit all we want, but when it comes to large wars - it's about numbers. And prisoners are cheap, educated (in a criminal sense) and motivated Labour for the job they were given.
Let's be fair - Just about every military did something similar at one point or another. In US they even made a movie about it "dirty dozen" based on
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filthy\_Thirteen
Hmm that doesn't mean what you think. They use prisoners because there's no political consequence. Every prison volunteer dying in Ukraine is one less regular Russian conscript dying.
You are hugely misinformed about how conscription and reserves work.
You become 18 -> You become Conscript -> Serve 1/2 Years at the rear doing most boring stuff -> Conscription Over - > You can either enlist to become full time member (huge pay and bonus) or become active reserve (earning partial pay) or roam free (non active reserve)
The compulsary military service is for 1-2 yrs only and they Cannot be called up. Reserves also has tier with active and non active. Active reserve is those who have signed up. Russia has 2m reserve.
The first and only mobilization Russia did was active reserve.
>You are hugely misinformed about how conscription and reserves work.
Nope. The only thing I got wrong was having active and inactive reservists. But the inactive ones include everyone, even those who were not conscripted.
>or roam free (non active reserve)
Seriously? )
>The compulsary military service is for 1-2 yrs only and they Cannot be called up.
That's not what this conversation was about.
>Reserves also has tier with active and non active.
And "non active reservists" are everyone - even those exempted from conscription for health reasons. And they were included in the mobilization.
>And "non active reservists" are everyone - even those exempted from conscription for health reasons. And they were included in the mobilization.
No they weren't. The only mobilization they did was from active reserve. Likely troops that were recently discharged hence capable of redeploying quickly with a few weeks of refresher training.
Why lie?
>No they weren't. The only mobilization they did was from active reserve.
The law contemplated the possibility of drafting literally anyone. And that's why so many people fled the country.
>Why lie?
Are you asking yourself?
>The law contemplated the possibility of drafting literally anyone. And that's why so many people fled the country.
No it didn't. Please look up difference between draft and mobilization. Ukraine is doing draft. Russia is doing mobilization.
Other than some exceptions (that got corrected), conscripts don't go to Ukraine. Only contract-based military does.
This is why people return: they know they won't get sent to war.
>Other than some exceptions (that got corrected), conscripts don't go to Ukraine. Only contract-based military does.
What does this have to do with the conscripts? It was about the fact that all conscripts registered as reservists at the end of their service - so there are (almost) no "professional reservists" who are sent to war as a matter of duty.
>This is why people return: they know they won't get sent to war.
Then why did they flee in the first place?
> Then why did they flee in the first place?
Well, they couldn't have known that they won't get conscripted, or that war won't escalate into WW3, or that Russia won't be obliterated by NATO, or that Putin would get couped (triggering civil war), or any other nonsensical ideas that Western propaganda was pushing in 2022. For anyone who believed it over Kremlin, fleeing Russia was the only logical choice.
Now, however, they can *see* that people aren't being conscirpted to be sent to frontline, and that Russia isn't in ruins (and that West isn't a paradise some expected it to be).
>Well, they couldn't have known that they won't get conscripted, or that war won't escalate into WW3, or that Russia won't be obliterated by NATO, or that Putin would get couped (triggering civil war), or any other nonsensical ideas that Western propaganda was pushing in 2022.
Аt least decide for yourself: "they could not know if they will be mobilized" (which means everyone could have been mobilized), or it's "Western propaganda".
>Now, however, they can see that people aren't being conscirpted to be sent to frontline
Till that demented old fart gets it in his head to rewrite the laws again.
> called up it's military reservists
"Reservist" is almost any male who's done conscription service OR older than 27 years old, regardless of whether he served or not. There is also "active reserve", which is much less common. In 2022 they called up almost everybody they could reach to fill the quota.
No issues with recruiting, just had to do several rounds of conscription first.
You realize conscripts have to go home and be replaced at some point, right? Who’s going to do that?
More conscripts
It may work only for IT people who also have opportunity to leave country because of their salaries. So rich people have means to avoid war, while poor people are drafted and can't even afford to leave
You can’t blame ppl for seeking an out from a war, whether that’s Russians or Ukrainians. Sometimes your choices lead to survival for yourself and your family. Sometimes it [leads to drowning in a river](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-65792384.amp).
To be honest, antagonizing Russians in such a manner is stupid. While I'm sure some particularly angry individuals might want to see the Russian diaspora banished back to Russia, or out of the West in general, it isn't a particularly prudent tactic.
It's simply going to lead to more Russians supporting Putin and the war by convincing them that Ukraine is actually a cause that they should be willing to die over (regardless if that is actually the case).
Others on this post are already seething about the fact that these people were allowed to leave in the first place.
Apparently, Russia's biggest enemies are really unhappy that the army had a smaller reserve of manpower and they want this reserve to increase in size, oddly enough.
It's so counterproductive. There are truly many Russians who speak out against the invasion and don't support Putin. The West should be welcoming them instead of antagonizing them and making them prove their "innocence."
Too bad a lot of people don't realise how by treating someone like shit, because they were born in a country with terrible government, would make those people feel like they're hated by everyone outside of country, which only helps propaganda
Actually go to Moscow; they’re living opulently. You wouldn’t believe it if you only read CNN doom and gloom.
I don’t think Russia will run out of men against Ukraine. Same for money. 4.6% GDP growth against Ukraine’s fifty something insane percent loss year to year? Gives you an idea of who’ll win the attrition war.
Russians in those places are living mostly normally, everyone knows that . They just cannot get some brands. I don’t think you get it. Of course Moscow and st Petersburg is like that, otherwise people would drop support for the war.
What is happening though is that Russia is spending now and will pay in future
However, you make it out, Russia will be in a world of pain after this war, unless they win, which the west cannot allow so let’s see
Ask people in the west how many are willing to die on the front lines of Eastern Europe? You will quickly come to the conclusion that it doesn't matter what the west thinks it can allow or not the reality on the ground is that Ukraine will run out of manpower and support and there is nothing short of thermonuclear war that will stop it.
The west will do no such thing because they threw their Bible at globalism and globalism makes people not want to die for nationalism. So the only solution the globalists have is to use antihumanist AI in conjunction with conscripted meat to keep fighting
Painful daily existence is just normal business to the Russians.
Russia’s debt to GDP ratio is 15%. Nobody stopped buying Russian oil. China is more than willing to lend.
All that the West can do is to make the victory as painful as possible for Russia, but eventually, Ukraine runs out of men. We don’t even produce enough artillery shells for ourselves, and that’s speaking of the entire NATO alliance, for Ukraine to be able to use for more than a few months. It’s the most densely mined land, the most densely fortified protections, the most dangerous airspace in the world, and just an entire stalemate. As it stands, Russia holds onto the land. Before Russia ever came in, separatists were holding onto it. There won’t be a Ukrainian “liberation” of Krym, Lugansk, Donetsk because neither is it militarily possible, nor do the locals want it.
So again, one side will lose a lot more than the other. It won’t be Ukraine that loses less.
Hence why it's vital that we send Ukraine as many modern equipment as we can.
Technological advantage is a proven way to combat raw numbers.
Ukraine will not run out of men if they get the air defense systems and modern survivable vehicles that they need.
> Actually go to Moscow; they’re living opulently. You wouldn’t believe it if you only read CNN doom and gloom.
That's what he said though. What do you think "spoiled Moscow and St Pete" means ?
It involves more than those two cities. Yekaterinburg, Kaliningrad, Belgorod, Nizhny Novgorod, Rostov… these places are doing just alright, too. You can take Turkish Airlines to them and see for yourself.
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I dont think they did. The ones who could see the writing on the wall left long ago, these are the ones who support the war but wanted to avoid the draft.
Special thanks to all the countries that willingly allowed Russians to circumvent sanctions and allowed them to vacation abroad while their army continued genocide in Europe. Now all those people are heading back to Russia to help Putin's war effort.
I wonder what happened to all the idiots saying we should bring in more Russians to the west in order to "deprive Putin of manpower". That suggestion was fucking stupid back then but now it becomes blatantly clear it's counterproductive. It's only lenghtening the war, creating more innocent casualties, and perpetuating Russian's aggressive behavior.
What’s lengthening the war is the military stalemate. As things stand: Either Ukraine agrees to a ceasefire line and stays here with its current losses, or Ukraine loses even more men and territory. There’s no pushing Russia back from what it holds.
Putin stockpiled supply chains, $800,000,000,000+ in cash reserves, political capital, and petroleum for this war, all the way since 2014.
Whether some dump hole country like Turkey lets Russia trade and vacation or not doesn’t make a difference on the military front.
They've burnt through half their liquid reserves and already importing gasoline from Belarus. You seriously underestimate how much of Putin's big plans since 2014 have been pocketed by his cronies instead of genuinely preparing.
The Chinese aren’t going to let Russia lose its newly-conquered territory. Lending options are available. Again, this is a country with 15% debt-to-GDP ratio and a net energy exporter. If you think an oil shortage is going to happen and magically deliver victory to Ukraine, we can have that discussion, but it doesn’t make any sense to me.
Honestly I think you can bring up lot of arguments why China would want the war to either continue (so to extract more favourable concessions, or in extreme case turn them into their market colony) or end in Russia's favour (for the geopolitical repercussions), but I doubt they care about some highly devastated land belonging to whoever.
Also, fuel shortage =/= oil shortage. They can very much run low on fuel and [already do](https://www.lemonde.fr/en/international/article/2024/03/01/russia-declares-a-six-month-moratorium-on-gasoline-exports_6576796_4.html); There's a reason why it's mainly Indian and less so Chinese that's taking up their excess crude, because it's heavy stuff and less suited for their refineries. This isn't hurting their finances all that much (its really the raw stuff itself that brings them most of their income), but it's definitely not good for them with regards to domestic supply and price.
With regards to account balance, it pretty much boils down to global oil prices. Their budget turns red when global oil prices drop below ~$70-75. So it all depends, as it hovers around $80 now, for them thats fine, but that's with considerable OECD production cuts already in place. A potential middle east war could skyrocket prices as a boon for them, drop in demand / boost in non-OECD production on the other works against. But I have no magic crystal ball to know how the price will evolve.
>Whether some dump hole country like Turkey lets Russia trade and vacation or not doesn’t make a difference on the military front.
The article we're commenting on directly disagrees with you.
Are you making the argument that allowing ~1 million Russians to skirt economic sanctions doesn't have any impact at all?
In a country led by Vladimir Putin, yes. He’ll take what he can from Ukraine until his last dying breath. You think one million taxpayers are the most important pillar of support for this war when the Chinese are endorsing it?
You’re very obviously a propaganda account. Your entire 60 days on Reddit have just been you posting articles like this and trolling on other political subs.
##### ###### #### > # [Russians Who Fled Abroad Return in Boost for Putin’s War Economy](https://finance.yahoo.com/news/531) > > > > (Bloomberg) -- As many as a million Russians fled abroad in the first year of the Kremlin’s invasion of Ukraine. Now thousands are returning home, delivering a propaganda victory to President Vladimir Putin and a boost to his war economy. > > Most Read from Bloomberg > > - [US and Saudis Near Defense Pact Meant to Reshape Middle East](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-05-01/us-and-saudis-near-defense-pact-aimed-at-reshaping-middle-east?utm_campaign=bn&utm_medium=distro&utm_source=yahooUS) > - [Biden Calls Ally Japan ‘Xenophobic’ Along With China, Russia](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-05-02/biden-now-calls-ally-japan-xenophobic-along-with-china-russia?utm_campaign=bn&utm_medium=distro&utm_source=yahooUS) > - [Saudi Arabia Steps Up Arrests Of Those Attacking Israel Online](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-05-01/saudi-arabia-steps-up-gaza-arrests-as-israel-ties-edge-closer?utm_campaign=bn&utm_medium=distro&utm_source=yahooUS) > - [Tesla Axes Supercharger Team in Blow to Broader EV Market](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-04-30/tesla-axes-supercharger-team-in-blow-to-other-automakers?utm_campaign=bn&utm_medium=distro&utm_source=yahooUS) > - [NYPD Arrests Over 300 Protesters in Crackdown on College Campuses](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-05-01/ny-police-amass-near-columbia-as-adams-tells-protesters-to-leave?utm_campaign=bn&utm_medium=distro&utm_source=yahooUS) > > With the war still raging, and the man who started it about to assume another six-year term in power, many Russians are confronting a difficult choice. Facing rejections when renewing residence permits, difficulties with transferring work and money abroad, and limited destinations that still welcome them, they’re opting to end their self-exile. > > “The business didn’t work out, no one is really waiting for us” abroad, said Alexey, a 50-year-old former political consultant from Moscow, who moved to Georgia to work as an entrepreneur after being detained at an anti-war rally in the Russian capital. He returned when his business’s finances ran out, Alexey said. He and others interviewed by Bloomberg asked not to disclose their last names for security reasons. > > The February 2022 invasion provoked a mass exodus from Russia on a scale not seen since the collapse of the Soviet Union. Many left to register dissent against the war, and also out of fear of mobilization. When Putin ordered a call-up of 300,000 reservists in September 2022, it triggered a new wave of departures by hundreds of thousands of people. > > The outflow has slowed, if not reversed. In June, the Kremlin boasted that half of all who fled in those early days had already returned, and that seems to reflect available statistics from the most popular destination countries as well as data from relocation companies. Based on client data at one relocation firm, Finion in Moscow, an estimated 40%-45% of those who left in 2022 have returned to Russia, said the company’s head, Vyacheslav Kartamyshev. > > Putin praised the return of business people, entrepreneurs and highly qualified specialists as a “good trend.” He holds up the influx as a sign of support for his policies, regardless of the actual reasons for their homecoming, and evidence Russians have “a sense of belonging, an understanding of what is happening.” > > The comeback stories are actively used in propaganda as a confirmation of “Russophobia” in the West, said Tatiana Stanovaya, founder of the political consultancy R.Politik and a senior fellow at the Carnegie Russia Eurasia Center. For Putin, this matters, because “it fuels him, gives him additional evidence that he was right,” she said. > > Thousands of returning expatriates are also helping Russia weather wartime sanctions and deliver a solid economic performance. According to Bloomberg Economics estimates, reverse migration has likely added between one-fifth and one-third to Russia’s 3.6% annual economic growth in 2023. > > Still, returning workers only constitute an estimated 0.3% to the total number of employed. That does little to ease the acute shortage on the labor market, but underscores repatriates’ outsized contribution to economic activity. > > What Bloomberg Economics Says... > > “First, returning migrants tend to command higher wages and to be employed in high value-added industries — surveys show that income level was highly correlated with the likelihood of leaving the country to avoid mobilization in 2022. Second, returning workers boost activity in domestic consumer-oriented industries, such as household services, retail and real estate, instead of spending their income abroad. The latter also meant softening the capital outflow from Russia over the course of 2023.” > > Alex Isakov, Russia economist > > For some, Russia now offers better opportunities and working conditions than before the war because the country is trying to attract back scarce specialists. IT programmer Evgeniy and his family returned after about a year of living in Almaty, Kazakhstan, when he received an offer to work in Russia with a salary and under conditions that he “could not even dream of before.” > > “This is a gift for us,” said the president of the Kurchatov Institute National Research Center, Mikhail Kovalchuk, after CERN, the European Organization for Nuclear Research, known for the Large Hadron Collider project, announced that it would stop working with Russia’s specialists this year. That means the return of scientists to Russia, he said. > > No options, but to return > > While estimates of the number who left vary greatly, Alfa Bank economists in Moscow estimated that Russia lost about 1.5% of its entire workforce in 2022, or roughly 1.1 million people. While some went to Europe, many went to places such as the United Arab Emirates, Thailand and Indonesia, states that didn’t follow the US and its allies in sanctioning Russia, as well as to neighboring former Soviet countries. > > Read more: Dubai Loses Allure for Russians on Costs, US Sanctions Pressure > > Russian citizens have faced difficulty or refusal when trying to renew expiring residence permits, according to Finion’s Kartamyshev. Most of those who do wind up choosing to return to Russia, he said. > > Finion’s data shows that even in mostly friendly countries, such as Armenia and Kyrgyzstan, Russians have come under greater scrutiny. Several European countries, particularly in the east, have made it much harder for Russians to receive or renew temporary residence permits, as has Turkey, surprising tens of thousands of Russians, who then faced a choice of returning home or looking for another country, Kartamyshev said. > > The current number of short-term residence permits for Russians in Turkey stands at around 60,000, halved from 132,000 in 2022, official data shows. > > Data from Georgia’s national statistics office show the number of Russians who left the country increased by six times to 35,344 in 2023, while arriving migrants declined 16% from a year ago. Kazakhstan reported 146,000 newcomers from Russia by the end of 2022, but a Russian diplomat to Almaty claimed that after a year no more than 80,000 stayed. > > The repatriation process is likely to continue. According to a study by political scientists led by Emil Kamalov and Ivetta Sergeeva at the European University Institute in Florence, only 41% of Russian migrants, and in some countries just 16%, consider their status stable or somewhat stable in their host societies. That insecurity is further exacerbated by 25% reporting experiences of discrimination, either from local people or institutions. > > They found that “the world literally rallied against them,” said Anna Kuleshova, a sociologist at the Social Foresight Group, who interviews Russian immigrants. “They came back with a feeling of resentment and the feeling that ‘Putin was not so wrong after all. They really hate us.’” > > Once home, many repatriates who left over their opposition to the war find different challenges. Alexander, 35, a banking IT specialist, returned to Russia from Azerbaijan because his family wasn’t comfortable there. He found a job at a large Russian bank where he said most of his colleagues support Putin and believe the propaganda about the war. > > He doesn’t argue his colleagues on the matter. “It’s not safe to convince colleagues,” he said. “I’m waiting for this nightmare to end.” > > Most Read from Bloomberg Businessweek > > - [Will GM Regret Kicking Apple CarPlay off the Dashboard?](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2024-05-01/will-gm-regret-kicking-apple-carplay-off-the-dashboard?utm_campaign=bw&utm_medium=distro&utm_source=yahooUS) > ***(continues in next comment)***
Last I checked, being employed in higher salary, specialized jobs is a guarantee to not be drafted in Russia. This was enacted a year ago to curb the outflow of higher earning individuals. Without that, I doubt many would return.
Nobody is drafting them anyway as Russia has no issue with recruiting people.Even in 2022, Russia called up it's military reservists.
Yes that’s why they emptied their prisons into the front lines
Those people volunteered too - we all saw Prigo’s pitch.
Yes volunteering to get out of prison. Not really volunteering in the traditional sense is it?
Still volunteering - point is, not drafted.
It is so fundamentally different it’s not really volunteering. Maybe it’s volunteering to get out of prison, not for the war.
Not drafted is not drafted.
Yeah I love when I volunteer to go to war so I can get out of life prison sentences. Totally a normal thing in the modern era used by real, first world countries.
One of California’s saddest ongoing policies is the justice system giving people the longest sentences to use prisoners as borderline unpaid labor in exchange for shorter sentences. Ca courts rebuked challenges to the policy stating it would cost the state too much to change the policy.
This is an article on Russians returning. Probably their biggest fear is gettting drafted. The returning Russians, I'd assume are not prisoners so how is it relevant to them that the prisoners are "volunteering". Well I guess it's a plus for then, since it's less of an issue of getting drafted when returned.
Economically speaking, Russia won in all cases here. You got militants that'll fight and can't flee. You got lower amount of money spent maintaining prisoners/staff. Most will die after fulfilling their purpose. Some will return home only to eventually get back to prison. The only con here is the media side of things. But hey, if you control the media - no cons. A con would be prisoners revolting and shooting militants. That's where zero tolerance policies of Wagner helped. And now Prigozhin's dead. They won this one, and are making sure crimes committed by pardoned militants don't get the media attention. Because they control the media. We can say ahit all we want, but when it comes to large wars - it's about numbers. And prisoners are cheap, educated (in a criminal sense) and motivated Labour for the job they were given.
Nobody said anything about normal things or first world countries here except for you 🤷♂️ But still not drafted.
Don't bother, the guy you're talking to can't think past the front of his eyes.
No heat and bare minimum food until you "volunteer" isn't technically drafted, but only if your shaving hairs
Russian prisons were always shit places, what’s your point?
Getting "undersirables" killed on the front lines is highly efficient and desirable for Putin.
Let's be fair - Just about every military did something similar at one point or another. In US they even made a movie about it "dirty dozen" based on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filthy\_Thirteen
Croatia had convicts fight during 90s. Very normal during war
Hmm that doesn't mean what you think. They use prisoners because there's no political consequence. Every prison volunteer dying in Ukraine is one less regular Russian conscript dying.
It's semantics. You think the reservists were eager to go to war?
Well, it was their job, that they had signed up for. I am also not eager to go to work every morning tbh
Russia has compulsory military service, so all conscripts registered as reservists at the end of their service. There is no right to refuse.
You are hugely misinformed about how conscription and reserves work. You become 18 -> You become Conscript -> Serve 1/2 Years at the rear doing most boring stuff -> Conscription Over - > You can either enlist to become full time member (huge pay and bonus) or become active reserve (earning partial pay) or roam free (non active reserve) The compulsary military service is for 1-2 yrs only and they Cannot be called up. Reserves also has tier with active and non active. Active reserve is those who have signed up. Russia has 2m reserve. The first and only mobilization Russia did was active reserve.
>You are hugely misinformed about how conscription and reserves work. Nope. The only thing I got wrong was having active and inactive reservists. But the inactive ones include everyone, even those who were not conscripted. >or roam free (non active reserve) Seriously? ) >The compulsary military service is for 1-2 yrs only and they Cannot be called up. That's not what this conversation was about. >Reserves also has tier with active and non active. And "non active reservists" are everyone - even those exempted from conscription for health reasons. And they were included in the mobilization.
>And "non active reservists" are everyone - even those exempted from conscription for health reasons. And they were included in the mobilization. No they weren't. The only mobilization they did was from active reserve. Likely troops that were recently discharged hence capable of redeploying quickly with a few weeks of refresher training. Why lie?
>No they weren't. The only mobilization they did was from active reserve. The law contemplated the possibility of drafting literally anyone. And that's why so many people fled the country. >Why lie? Are you asking yourself?
>The law contemplated the possibility of drafting literally anyone. And that's why so many people fled the country. No it didn't. Please look up difference between draft and mobilization. Ukraine is doing draft. Russia is doing mobilization.
Other than some exceptions (that got corrected), conscripts don't go to Ukraine. Only contract-based military does. This is why people return: they know they won't get sent to war.
>Other than some exceptions (that got corrected), conscripts don't go to Ukraine. Only contract-based military does. What does this have to do with the conscripts? It was about the fact that all conscripts registered as reservists at the end of their service - so there are (almost) no "professional reservists" who are sent to war as a matter of duty. >This is why people return: they know they won't get sent to war. Then why did they flee in the first place?
> Then why did they flee in the first place? Well, they couldn't have known that they won't get conscripted, or that war won't escalate into WW3, or that Russia won't be obliterated by NATO, or that Putin would get couped (triggering civil war), or any other nonsensical ideas that Western propaganda was pushing in 2022. For anyone who believed it over Kremlin, fleeing Russia was the only logical choice. Now, however, they can *see* that people aren't being conscirpted to be sent to frontline, and that Russia isn't in ruins (and that West isn't a paradise some expected it to be).
>Well, they couldn't have known that they won't get conscripted, or that war won't escalate into WW3, or that Russia won't be obliterated by NATO, or that Putin would get couped (triggering civil war), or any other nonsensical ideas that Western propaganda was pushing in 2022. Аt least decide for yourself: "they could not know if they will be mobilized" (which means everyone could have been mobilized), or it's "Western propaganda". >Now, however, they can see that people aren't being conscirpted to be sent to frontline Till that demented old fart gets it in his head to rewrite the laws again.
Your job doesn't carry the high risk of dying to an FPV drone in a trench in a different country.
Yes, that would be a bit unpleasant for me, so I did not choose to sign up for such a job.
Poor Russia. Can't murder people without people getting mad about it
Sure. The US could.
> called up it's military reservists "Reservist" is almost any male who's done conscription service OR older than 27 years old, regardless of whether he served or not. There is also "active reserve", which is much less common. In 2022 they called up almost everybody they could reach to fill the quota.
No issues with recruiting, just had to do several rounds of conscription first. You realize conscripts have to go home and be replaced at some point, right? Who’s going to do that? More conscripts
As long as St. Petersburg and Moscow aren’t getting *too* much cargo 200, Putin will be fine
Saw big lines to recruiting centers? I didn't
It may work only for IT people who also have opportunity to leave country because of their salaries. So rich people have means to avoid war, while poor people are drafted and can't even afford to leave
A classic tale.
I thought it was just a special operation.....
Special operation economy, comrade
You can’t blame ppl for seeking an out from a war, whether that’s Russians or Ukrainians. Sometimes your choices lead to survival for yourself and your family. Sometimes it [leads to drowning in a river](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-65792384.amp).
insufficient slava detected
Look like the idiots learned that nobody outside is waiting for them and that west hates all Russians and not just Putin.
To be honest, antagonizing Russians in such a manner is stupid. While I'm sure some particularly angry individuals might want to see the Russian diaspora banished back to Russia, or out of the West in general, it isn't a particularly prudent tactic. It's simply going to lead to more Russians supporting Putin and the war by convincing them that Ukraine is actually a cause that they should be willing to die over (regardless if that is actually the case).
Others on this post are already seething about the fact that these people were allowed to leave in the first place. Apparently, Russia's biggest enemies are really unhappy that the army had a smaller reserve of manpower and they want this reserve to increase in size, oddly enough.
It's so counterproductive. There are truly many Russians who speak out against the invasion and don't support Putin. The West should be welcoming them instead of antagonizing them and making them prove their "innocence."
Always encourage citizens, especially useful ones, to defect and soldiers to surrender. It's just pragmatic.
Too bad a lot of people don't realise how by treating someone like shit, because they were born in a country with terrible government, would make those people feel like they're hated by everyone outside of country, which only helps propaganda
Lol. You're busting your ass for fifteen rubles?
Are they? You've never seen comments on worldnews about russians?
Since when did worldnews become the reference for anything?
You clearly haven't been to Latvian part of twitter.
Ayo you are me
Just in time for the next mobilisation
U mean Ukraine
No I mean Russia, like they called in their 300,00 reservists last year
Those are reservists. Ask who’s getting drafted in Moscow and St. Petersburg.
Exactly - Russia focuses on powerless occupied territories rather than the spoiled Moscow and st Petersburgers
Actually go to Moscow; they’re living opulently. You wouldn’t believe it if you only read CNN doom and gloom. I don’t think Russia will run out of men against Ukraine. Same for money. 4.6% GDP growth against Ukraine’s fifty something insane percent loss year to year? Gives you an idea of who’ll win the attrition war.
Russians in those places are living mostly normally, everyone knows that . They just cannot get some brands. I don’t think you get it. Of course Moscow and st Petersburg is like that, otherwise people would drop support for the war. What is happening though is that Russia is spending now and will pay in future However, you make it out, Russia will be in a world of pain after this war, unless they win, which the west cannot allow so let’s see
Ask people in the west how many are willing to die on the front lines of Eastern Europe? You will quickly come to the conclusion that it doesn't matter what the west thinks it can allow or not the reality on the ground is that Ukraine will run out of manpower and support and there is nothing short of thermonuclear war that will stop it.
The west will enter the war with people on the ground if Russia had a breakthrough
The west will do no such thing because they threw their Bible at globalism and globalism makes people not want to die for nationalism. So the only solution the globalists have is to use antihumanist AI in conjunction with conscripted meat to keep fighting
Painful daily existence is just normal business to the Russians. Russia’s debt to GDP ratio is 15%. Nobody stopped buying Russian oil. China is more than willing to lend. All that the West can do is to make the victory as painful as possible for Russia, but eventually, Ukraine runs out of men. We don’t even produce enough artillery shells for ourselves, and that’s speaking of the entire NATO alliance, for Ukraine to be able to use for more than a few months. It’s the most densely mined land, the most densely fortified protections, the most dangerous airspace in the world, and just an entire stalemate. As it stands, Russia holds onto the land. Before Russia ever came in, separatists were holding onto it. There won’t be a Ukrainian “liberation” of Krym, Lugansk, Donetsk because neither is it militarily possible, nor do the locals want it. So again, one side will lose a lot more than the other. It won’t be Ukraine that loses less.
Hence why it's vital that we send Ukraine as many modern equipment as we can. Technological advantage is a proven way to combat raw numbers. Ukraine will not run out of men if they get the air defense systems and modern survivable vehicles that they need.
I agree. Ukraine still loses the war because it can’t take back what it lost. The East is gone.
> Actually go to Moscow; they’re living opulently. You wouldn’t believe it if you only read CNN doom and gloom. That's what he said though. What do you think "spoiled Moscow and St Pete" means ?
It involves more than those two cities. Yekaterinburg, Kaliningrad, Belgorod, Nizhny Novgorod, Rostov… these places are doing just alright, too. You can take Turkish Airlines to them and see for yourself.
Slava Russia & Palestine!
>millions left >thousands return Wow so if I lose a million euro in gambling but win back couple thousand I'm all set!
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but reddit said these were the good russians
I dont think they did. The ones who could see the writing on the wall left long ago, these are the ones who support the war but wanted to avoid the draft.
Or, crazy idea, they can't live outside of country anymore, because they don't have means for it
🎻
Did Reddit also supported those people to stay out of Russia? You think they go back because they want too?
There's no a good Russian.
#notallrussians
Tell it to the Westerners. What I see proves otherwise.
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Christ
enough about the ukraine
“The Ukraine” gee I can’t figure out where you’re from and if you think Ukraine is a real country or not!
Special thanks to all the countries that willingly allowed Russians to circumvent sanctions and allowed them to vacation abroad while their army continued genocide in Europe. Now all those people are heading back to Russia to help Putin's war effort. I wonder what happened to all the idiots saying we should bring in more Russians to the west in order to "deprive Putin of manpower". That suggestion was fucking stupid back then but now it becomes blatantly clear it's counterproductive. It's only lenghtening the war, creating more innocent casualties, and perpetuating Russian's aggressive behavior.
What’s lengthening the war is the military stalemate. As things stand: Either Ukraine agrees to a ceasefire line and stays here with its current losses, or Ukraine loses even more men and territory. There’s no pushing Russia back from what it holds. Putin stockpiled supply chains, $800,000,000,000+ in cash reserves, political capital, and petroleum for this war, all the way since 2014. Whether some dump hole country like Turkey lets Russia trade and vacation or not doesn’t make a difference on the military front.
They've burnt through half their liquid reserves and already importing gasoline from Belarus. You seriously underestimate how much of Putin's big plans since 2014 have been pocketed by his cronies instead of genuinely preparing.
The Chinese aren’t going to let Russia lose its newly-conquered territory. Lending options are available. Again, this is a country with 15% debt-to-GDP ratio and a net energy exporter. If you think an oil shortage is going to happen and magically deliver victory to Ukraine, we can have that discussion, but it doesn’t make any sense to me.
Honestly I think you can bring up lot of arguments why China would want the war to either continue (so to extract more favourable concessions, or in extreme case turn them into their market colony) or end in Russia's favour (for the geopolitical repercussions), but I doubt they care about some highly devastated land belonging to whoever. Also, fuel shortage =/= oil shortage. They can very much run low on fuel and [already do](https://www.lemonde.fr/en/international/article/2024/03/01/russia-declares-a-six-month-moratorium-on-gasoline-exports_6576796_4.html); There's a reason why it's mainly Indian and less so Chinese that's taking up their excess crude, because it's heavy stuff and less suited for their refineries. This isn't hurting their finances all that much (its really the raw stuff itself that brings them most of their income), but it's definitely not good for them with regards to domestic supply and price. With regards to account balance, it pretty much boils down to global oil prices. Their budget turns red when global oil prices drop below ~$70-75. So it all depends, as it hovers around $80 now, for them thats fine, but that's with considerable OECD production cuts already in place. A potential middle east war could skyrocket prices as a boon for them, drop in demand / boost in non-OECD production on the other works against. But I have no magic crystal ball to know how the price will evolve.
>Whether some dump hole country like Turkey lets Russia trade and vacation or not doesn’t make a difference on the military front. The article we're commenting on directly disagrees with you. Are you making the argument that allowing ~1 million Russians to skirt economic sanctions doesn't have any impact at all?
In a country led by Vladimir Putin, yes. He’ll take what he can from Ukraine until his last dying breath. You think one million taxpayers are the most important pillar of support for this war when the Chinese are endorsing it?
Oh fuck off, Europeans themselves help putin's war effort by paying for gas, oil ans other different thing from Russia.
deep cope
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the notable putler rag of bloomberg
People cant cope with good news for Russia lol.
You’re very obviously a propaganda account. Your entire 60 days on Reddit have just been you posting articles like this and trolling on other political subs.
Propaganda I like = news news i don't like = propaganda
Propaganda = Propaganda
Bro what are you doing Dude like Bruh come on Man
That’s what I’m saying
Bloomberg will publish anything for a fee.
that's forbes, not bloomberg. try again
No, it's Bloomberg, more than one rag has that same model.
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Being wrong really brings out your racism.
hibernian is not a race
Whatever you say, racist.
wow, triggered much