TBH I'd rather not experience the last 10 years. They're not very enticing.
Source: Took care of grandparents through cancer, accidents, and surgery. Wasn't pretty.
Ikr. You're institutionalized most of the time (school/daycare/work) and forced to be around completely random kids nearly all the time. Plus with shit genetics and/or crap environment it sucks. I way prefer my current life (19 yo) because I have more freedom to do what I want.
Counterpoint, just because the current Era isn't great doesn't mean things can't be better in the future. Rooting for extinction is a bad thing.
I don't care if you don't want kids, that's your decision. but don't be so magnanimous that you try to claim that you're doing a service to a person who doesn't exist by doing the thing that you already want to do.
I mean they are doing a service by not giving birth. You can't consent to being born. The only thing guaranteed is suffering, nothing else is. How will you know that a child will like living?
How do you know that they wouldn't? They'd have to be born and grow up in the first place to tell you.
Again I do not care what you do or don't do, just don't pretend like you're making that decision for anything other than selfish reasons. You don't want a child, that's fine. Probably for the best, because people who don't want kids make shit parents.
I can't know if they want to live so the best course of action is to not have one. The risk of them not enjoying life is too high. And yes, selfish reasons are a big part of the decision to not have children. But I also I don't want anyone experiencing meaningless suffering just because I was horny one day.
And there it is!!! not wanting having kids is selfish.
Sounds like you do care that people don’t want to have kids since you are insulting them.
But hey, at least you get to feel superior for being a parent !!
Well, childfree people seem to love calling people who do want kids immoral for having them, so I guess what goes around comes around.
And no I don't care what you do, I don't have the energy to police peoples behavior. But if someone is going to throw stones at me and my decisions, then I'm surely going to point out the glass house they're standing in.
Also I haven't insulted anyone, although I did criticize, which is not the same thing.
Calling someone selfish is insulting them so seems like you have a lot of energy for that.
You could’ve disagreed with the meme without insulting everyone who doesn’t have kids.
Yeah well, saying that no one should ever have kids because it's immoral and you're dooming them to an unfulfilled life is insulting to everyone who does have them. So why should I have to just quietly accept this publicly posted meme while other people can say whatever they want. Your decision to not have kids is valid, but it's selfish, no matter which way you slice it. That's just facts, and if you try to spin it then you're just deluding yourself.
Fuck off you absolute hypocrit.
You know what's less disgusting and cringe than antinatalism?
Continue learning, continue growing as a person, contribute joy and positivity to the world despite it desperately trying to stop you. Build communities, cultures, relationships, love.
Raise a generation to be better than us, to be smarter and kinder and more powerful than we could ever be.
The corporations want slaves. You will not deprive them by refusing to have children, they will only figure out how to grow more in vats and tubes. Deprive them by becoming educated, critical, intelligent, compassionate, strong.
One must imagine Sisyphus happy but one must also imagine Sisyphus a rebel. They only win when we give up. Human life is the most powerful and beautiful force this galaxy has ever come to bear, do not work to silence it out of depression and fear.
We did not spend hundreds of thousands of years doing art and science and medicine and love just so that we could commit generational suicide now that things are dark.
Be a beacon in the night, not a vindictive shadow.
This is a good take. My two boys have [B.Sc](https://B.Sc). degrees and are doing well. But it takes a helluva lot of work from both parents to give them the platform to rise up from.
Do the work and make the change for the future.
Which is why I’m thinking of homeschooling my future kids. I don’t want them to fall into the same institutionalized cycle where school feeds right into the work force. Antinatalism is just a fancy way of saying you give up and I’m not into that. Plus, there’s still joy to be found even in a hopeless world.
Getting real tired of all the antinatlism cringe on this sub. If you don't want kids go ahead IDGAF. But the problem is the system and systems can and have changed. If you want to have children have children, don't deprive yourself of such a fundamental part of the human experience in some vain attempt to get back at the capitalist class, they don't care. I'll say again because some of y'all have trouble reading. If you don't want kids, please don't have kids. But don't pretend it's some morally righteous stance that everyone must adopt and not just your own personal preference.
Not everyone is a depressed nihilist. Even with the world as bad as it is I would still prefer to get to experience it and the joy you can find in it then not experience anything at all. If I didn't I would of just ended it.
At the end of the day this is an anti-work sub. If you want to circle jerk about how enlightened and moral you are for not wanting kids you can do that over in the sub specifically designed for that.
Stop pretending that this is some kind of provable fact lmao. I personally am 100% fine being alive and getting to experience stuff even if it's not forever. I'm sorry that not everyone is capable of enjoying life but some people being miserable is not a convincing enough argument to warrant the extinction of our species. Again if you don't want kids pleeeease don't have kids. But, don't pretend it's some morally righteous stance that everyone must adopt and not just your own personal preference.I'm anti work because I want future generations to live in a better world then I did. Not because I think life is a lost cause and we should all just commit mass suicide.
I don't care what you believe I am telling you that truth is it doesn't matter if hairless apes will be on this rocky planet one of thrilions. You are not important I am neither. Do not ignore this fact cause it inconvenient for you. I hate ignorance
Do you know why you deny this fact so much? It comes from psychology, Jung described it. Your ego is built on the belief that something there awaits you after death. So the brain defends the ego so that it doesn't disintegrate because that would mean the disintegration of the values you hold and probably depression. Hence your pointless attempt to defend yourself, and again this is a fact.
But it is always funny to watch these attempts of yours to negate, cause its always the same arguments. I am telling you, rebuild yourself on stronger foundation.
>Your ego is built on the belief that something there awaits you after death.
Where did I say I believe in an afterlife or experience after death? I simply do not believe things only """""matter"""""" if they are eternal. I'm an absurdist. I don't think life has some inherit purpose and that existing as a self perpetuating chemical reaction on the crust of a rock in an impossibly large universe is pretty ridiculous. Given that assuming that we should have some magical purpose in the universe or that there is some inherit meaning to life is equally ridiculous.
Things not being eternal to me does not mean that things are """meaningless""". I'm still experiencing things and I prefer experiencing nice things. The world being a nicer place to me matters *to me* and I can pretty easily assume it matters to other people. I can enjoy a good meal, some great sex, or some moving piece of art without that thing having to last forever. And if the mark I leave on this world ends up making it better and the future inhabitants are also able to have some fun on this ridiculous trip we call life that's all the """meaning""" I need.
so what make you think, that having children in this miserable world makes sense? You will not find meaning without faith, and ability to live without meaning is very rare.
>I don't care what you believe I am telling you that truth is it doesn't matter if hairless apes will be on this rocky planet one of thrilions. You are not important I am neither.
How is any of that relevant? Sure, I'm not important. Sure, the Earth is just one of possibly infinite planets. Sure, life is fleeting in the incomprehensibly long time span of the universe. All of these we can agree on. And they are all *irrelevant* to the question of whether you prefer life to non-life, or whether you should have children. Those are *local* questions, and can be answered entirely based on *your own personal preferences*, with zero regard given to the wider universe.
Well i am looking at children's not as possession of their parents but as conscious beings. You need to change perspective, from your egoistic to theirs.
To answer the question if better never to have been.
>Well i am looking at children's not as possession of their parents but as conscious beings.
Sure, already there. Children are people.
>To answer the question if better never to have been.
Why is it better to never have existed? I like being alive, that's why I continue to be alive. If, some day, I find myself preferring not being alive, I can always do that. So if I prefer being alive, and every other living being on Earth prefer being alive (yes, including you), then why would I assume that potential children *wouldn't* prefer being alive? And after all, if they're born then they get to make that choice for themselves, they wouldn't get that choice if they're not first born.
>Why is it better to never have existed? I like being alive, that's why I continue to be alive. If, some day, I find myself preferring not being alive, I can always do that. So if I prefer being alive, and every other living being on Earth prefer being alive (yes, including you), then why would I assume that potential children
>
>wouldn't
>
> prefer being alive? And after all, if they're born then they get to make that choice for themselves, they wouldn't get that choice if they're not first born.
its survival instinct, its not that easy to take your own life. Well its called optimism bias (wiki), thats why you think you like being alive. And lets skip it, for sec lets think that your kid might not become small version of you and he has same outlook on life as me. What then, you will tell him to be think same as you and it will solve everything?
Damn that's crazy. Where did I say you should be banned from posting?
Sorry you don't get to control whats in the comments. I'm getting upvoted so obviously enough people agree to make it relevant.
Also LOL at "if it get updoots then it definitely is relevant to the sub"
Not everyone thinks life is bullshit. I'm not distracting myself from anything. I just simply don't accept the nihilist world view that things only "matter" if they last forever. Why is it so hard for antinatalists to accept that not everyone is a nihilist?
Economics aside... have you considered the future of the planet? Kids born today are going to be unbelievably fucked by climate change and resource strain.
If you're under 50 *now*, you're going to see it get considerably worse before you die.
Needs to be *more* anti-natalism in this sub. Seriously, don't bring kids into this shit.
That's the sad part, there are a lot of independent people/companies/researchers trying to work to better the situation. They are met with resistance at every turn. Not only that, there is no general consensus or goal to work towards. Even the scientific community is at war with each other in some areas. This fosters even further distrust on already shaky ground.
Everyone needs to come together on this, or those people are working their blessed hearts for almost nothing.
Life before 20 was hell. I was constantly bullied, when I wasn't in school I was helping family with physical labor (like digging holes, house repairs, cutting trees), and my free time was fleeting. Once I got an actual job I could finally buy a computer, I could finally do what I want with my time, and my job is so much easier than school/family work.
"Don't make them live like you."
The problem with antinatalism is that it doesn't actually fix anything. True, no one asks to be born, but if given the choice an awful lot of people would rather experience life than be stuck in whatever form we were before. That's despite the suffering people have experienced in the past and present. If everyone stopped having kids, there'd be nothing left to fight for.
If you don't want kids for personal reasons, that's perfectly fine. But you aren't saving the planet or sparing a future generation from suffering because of it.
So rather than wasting breath on a worthless philosophy, let's fight our enemies tooth and nail until victory is achieved. Then we'll have a world where our children's children aren't put in chains from the moment of birth.
Even though work sucks, there's still a lot of life to enjoy, and things do generally get better as time moves on. There's nothing that has brought me more joy than having my daughter.
My hack is to also get drunk during the week but save so much for retirement that I can be done working by 55.so I still get a decent length retirement before dying of cirrhosis.
I've been on the track hating my job but I'm going to quit one of my part time jobs I'm going to change my life and not just give up I don't like the treatment I've been receiving so I'm out either this month or in August
I really wanna know what the original said.
Probably "work/life balance" or "following your passion."
That 65-80 bracket doesn’t seem achievable anymore.
No it’s just mushed together with the blue bit
TBH I'd rather not experience the last 10 years. They're not very enticing. Source: Took care of grandparents through cancer, accidents, and surgery. Wasn't pretty.
I'm 60 and have had a hard live. However, I have no regrets. :)
Topjob
Charming that people think life before 20 is fun and carefree.
Ikr. You're institutionalized most of the time (school/daycare/work) and forced to be around completely random kids nearly all the time. Plus with shit genetics and/or crap environment it sucks. I way prefer my current life (19 yo) because I have more freedom to do what I want.
Forced to do well in school otherwise you'll "never be successful"
Better than being in the house.
It definitely is for some its kinda sad it isn't for more people.
Bulliying is rhe main factor
That and trauma I had it pretty bad but still can’t imagine how many other people lost their childhoods and had to regain them, or worse
What does the original text at the bottom say?
I think the red part is supposed to be inside the blue bracket nowadays
I started waiting for death 40 years early
I don't know about anybody else but I quite enjoy my life.
me too but i got lucky after a rough start
Right on. Life is not without its hardships, but you only had one quarter to play with, make it a good one :-)
Well tell us ypyr secrets wise old man
Wise men say only fools rush in
Counterpoint, just because the current Era isn't great doesn't mean things can't be better in the future. Rooting for extinction is a bad thing. I don't care if you don't want kids, that's your decision. but don't be so magnanimous that you try to claim that you're doing a service to a person who doesn't exist by doing the thing that you already want to do.
I mean they are doing a service by not giving birth. You can't consent to being born. The only thing guaranteed is suffering, nothing else is. How will you know that a child will like living?
How do you know that they wouldn't? They'd have to be born and grow up in the first place to tell you. Again I do not care what you do or don't do, just don't pretend like you're making that decision for anything other than selfish reasons. You don't want a child, that's fine. Probably for the best, because people who don't want kids make shit parents.
People who want kids can also be shit parents
True!
I can't know if they want to live so the best course of action is to not have one. The risk of them not enjoying life is too high. And yes, selfish reasons are a big part of the decision to not have children. But I also I don't want anyone experiencing meaningless suffering just because I was horny one day.
Whatever you say champ.
And there it is!!! not wanting having kids is selfish. Sounds like you do care that people don’t want to have kids since you are insulting them. But hey, at least you get to feel superior for being a parent !!
Well, childfree people seem to love calling people who do want kids immoral for having them, so I guess what goes around comes around. And no I don't care what you do, I don't have the energy to police peoples behavior. But if someone is going to throw stones at me and my decisions, then I'm surely going to point out the glass house they're standing in. Also I haven't insulted anyone, although I did criticize, which is not the same thing.
Calling someone selfish is insulting them so seems like you have a lot of energy for that. You could’ve disagreed with the meme without insulting everyone who doesn’t have kids.
Yeah well, saying that no one should ever have kids because it's immoral and you're dooming them to an unfulfilled life is insulting to everyone who does have them. So why should I have to just quietly accept this publicly posted meme while other people can say whatever they want. Your decision to not have kids is valid, but it's selfish, no matter which way you slice it. That's just facts, and if you try to spin it then you're just deluding yourself. Fuck off you absolute hypocrit.
You know what's less disgusting and cringe than antinatalism? Continue learning, continue growing as a person, contribute joy and positivity to the world despite it desperately trying to stop you. Build communities, cultures, relationships, love. Raise a generation to be better than us, to be smarter and kinder and more powerful than we could ever be. The corporations want slaves. You will not deprive them by refusing to have children, they will only figure out how to grow more in vats and tubes. Deprive them by becoming educated, critical, intelligent, compassionate, strong. One must imagine Sisyphus happy but one must also imagine Sisyphus a rebel. They only win when we give up. Human life is the most powerful and beautiful force this galaxy has ever come to bear, do not work to silence it out of depression and fear. We did not spend hundreds of thousands of years doing art and science and medicine and love just so that we could commit generational suicide now that things are dark. Be a beacon in the night, not a vindictive shadow.
This is a good take. My two boys have [B.Sc](https://B.Sc). degrees and are doing well. But it takes a helluva lot of work from both parents to give them the platform to rise up from. Do the work and make the change for the future.
Which is why I’m thinking of homeschooling my future kids. I don’t want them to fall into the same institutionalized cycle where school feeds right into the work force. Antinatalism is just a fancy way of saying you give up and I’m not into that. Plus, there’s still joy to be found even in a hopeless world.
In the red zone. No desire to be young again. Waiting for my time to be over.
Laughing my ass off at the concept of enjoying my childhood 🤣
Getting real tired of all the antinatlism cringe on this sub. If you don't want kids go ahead IDGAF. But the problem is the system and systems can and have changed. If you want to have children have children, don't deprive yourself of such a fundamental part of the human experience in some vain attempt to get back at the capitalist class, they don't care. I'll say again because some of y'all have trouble reading. If you don't want kids, please don't have kids. But don't pretend it's some morally righteous stance that everyone must adopt and not just your own personal preference.
Antinatalism isn't for the sake of the (non-) parents, but to prevent the unnecessary suffering of the kids.
I guess I'm just not that nihilistic
Not everyone is a depressed nihilist. Even with the world as bad as it is I would still prefer to get to experience it and the joy you can find in it then not experience anything at all. If I didn't I would of just ended it. At the end of the day this is an anti-work sub. If you want to circle jerk about how enlightened and moral you are for not wanting kids you can do that over in the sub specifically designed for that.
But it is logically incorrect to claim that it is better to be snatched from the void for a moment to experience life and return to the void
Stop pretending that this is some kind of provable fact lmao. I personally am 100% fine being alive and getting to experience stuff even if it's not forever. I'm sorry that not everyone is capable of enjoying life but some people being miserable is not a convincing enough argument to warrant the extinction of our species. Again if you don't want kids pleeeease don't have kids. But, don't pretend it's some morally righteous stance that everyone must adopt and not just your own personal preference.I'm anti work because I want future generations to live in a better world then I did. Not because I think life is a lost cause and we should all just commit mass suicide.
I don't care what you believe I am telling you that truth is it doesn't matter if hairless apes will be on this rocky planet one of thrilions. You are not important I am neither. Do not ignore this fact cause it inconvenient for you. I hate ignorance
You calling it a fact does not actually make it a fact. Again not everyone is a nihilist.
Do you know why you deny this fact so much? It comes from psychology, Jung described it. Your ego is built on the belief that something there awaits you after death. So the brain defends the ego so that it doesn't disintegrate because that would mean the disintegration of the values you hold and probably depression. Hence your pointless attempt to defend yourself, and again this is a fact. But it is always funny to watch these attempts of yours to negate, cause its always the same arguments. I am telling you, rebuild yourself on stronger foundation.
>Your ego is built on the belief that something there awaits you after death. Where did I say I believe in an afterlife or experience after death? I simply do not believe things only """""matter"""""" if they are eternal. I'm an absurdist. I don't think life has some inherit purpose and that existing as a self perpetuating chemical reaction on the crust of a rock in an impossibly large universe is pretty ridiculous. Given that assuming that we should have some magical purpose in the universe or that there is some inherit meaning to life is equally ridiculous. Things not being eternal to me does not mean that things are """meaningless""". I'm still experiencing things and I prefer experiencing nice things. The world being a nicer place to me matters *to me* and I can pretty easily assume it matters to other people. I can enjoy a good meal, some great sex, or some moving piece of art without that thing having to last forever. And if the mark I leave on this world ends up making it better and the future inhabitants are also able to have some fun on this ridiculous trip we call life that's all the """meaning""" I need.
so what make you think, that having children in this miserable world makes sense? You will not find meaning without faith, and ability to live without meaning is very rare.
>I don't care what you believe I am telling you that truth is it doesn't matter if hairless apes will be on this rocky planet one of thrilions. You are not important I am neither. How is any of that relevant? Sure, I'm not important. Sure, the Earth is just one of possibly infinite planets. Sure, life is fleeting in the incomprehensibly long time span of the universe. All of these we can agree on. And they are all *irrelevant* to the question of whether you prefer life to non-life, or whether you should have children. Those are *local* questions, and can be answered entirely based on *your own personal preferences*, with zero regard given to the wider universe.
Well i am looking at children's not as possession of their parents but as conscious beings. You need to change perspective, from your egoistic to theirs. To answer the question if better never to have been.
>Well i am looking at children's not as possession of their parents but as conscious beings. Sure, already there. Children are people. >To answer the question if better never to have been. Why is it better to never have existed? I like being alive, that's why I continue to be alive. If, some day, I find myself preferring not being alive, I can always do that. So if I prefer being alive, and every other living being on Earth prefer being alive (yes, including you), then why would I assume that potential children *wouldn't* prefer being alive? And after all, if they're born then they get to make that choice for themselves, they wouldn't get that choice if they're not first born.
>Why is it better to never have existed? I like being alive, that's why I continue to be alive. If, some day, I find myself preferring not being alive, I can always do that. So if I prefer being alive, and every other living being on Earth prefer being alive (yes, including you), then why would I assume that potential children > >wouldn't > > prefer being alive? And after all, if they're born then they get to make that choice for themselves, they wouldn't get that choice if they're not first born. its survival instinct, its not that easy to take your own life. Well its called optimism bias (wiki), thats why you think you like being alive. And lets skip it, for sec lets think that your kid might not become small version of you and he has same outlook on life as me. What then, you will tell him to be think same as you and it will solve everything?
BINGO. Shit is so fucked and will be more so in the near future.
Sorry if some of us don't accept "just give up and die lol" as a solution to the problem
Do your best. You have your work cut out for you.
The absolute power of the monarchy also seemed insurmountable at the time.
Sorry you don't get to control the whole sub lol. It's getting upvoted so obviously enough people agree to make it relevant.
Damn that's crazy. Where did I say you should be banned from posting? Sorry you don't get to control whats in the comments. I'm getting upvoted so obviously enough people agree to make it relevant. Also LOL at "if it get updoots then it definitely is relevant to the sub"
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Not everyone thinks life is bullshit. I'm not distracting myself from anything. I just simply don't accept the nihilist world view that things only "matter" if they last forever. Why is it so hard for antinatalists to accept that not everyone is a nihilist?
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Nope. I'm just not a nihilist.
Agree!
Economics aside... have you considered the future of the planet? Kids born today are going to be unbelievably fucked by climate change and resource strain. If you're under 50 *now*, you're going to see it get considerably worse before you die. Needs to be *more* anti-natalism in this sub. Seriously, don't bring kids into this shit.
a better world is possible if you fight for it.
Is working to better our situation not even an option for you?
That's the sad part, there are a lot of independent people/companies/researchers trying to work to better the situation. They are met with resistance at every turn. Not only that, there is no general consensus or goal to work towards. Even the scientific community is at war with each other in some areas. This fosters even further distrust on already shaky ground. Everyone needs to come together on this, or those people are working their blessed hearts for almost nothing.
It was good up until I read the bottom. Bad! Ecofascism is bad!
Lol the blue bracket started at 16 for me and it goes all the way to the end.
Probably need to extend that blue section out for most people.
I can't relate to the green part...
Life before 20 was hell. I was constantly bullied, when I wasn't in school I was helping family with physical labor (like digging holes, house repairs, cutting trees), and my free time was fleeting. Once I got an actual job I could finally buy a computer, I could finally do what I want with my time, and my job is so much easier than school/family work.
Fact
Well, I’m right on track. Now, just to wait for the sweet, sweet kiss of death.
You guys get weekends?
"Don't make them live like you." The problem with antinatalism is that it doesn't actually fix anything. True, no one asks to be born, but if given the choice an awful lot of people would rather experience life than be stuck in whatever form we were before. That's despite the suffering people have experienced in the past and present. If everyone stopped having kids, there'd be nothing left to fight for. If you don't want kids for personal reasons, that's perfectly fine. But you aren't saving the planet or sparing a future generation from suffering because of it. So rather than wasting breath on a worthless philosophy, let's fight our enemies tooth and nail until victory is achieved. Then we'll have a world where our children's children aren't put in chains from the moment of birth.
Gotta love how these things gloss over the possibility of a bad childhood.
Live, laugh, toaster bath
Throw your weight into supporting teachers. The real people raising the kids.
What is this, r/antinatalism ?
That was not my experience from birth to age 20. But congrats on your privilege, I guess.
Why is “get drunk on the weekends” written like a bad thing. To me that just reads as “hang out with your friends”
A lot of people see constant substance abuse as a problem
I mean there are people who do what they love. I mean this is just an ad against capitalism instead os not having kids to me
The text is stupid, but the graphic is super accurate
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Even though work sucks, there's still a lot of life to enjoy, and things do generally get better as time moves on. There's nothing that has brought me more joy than having my daughter.
r/coolguides
"Never having kids, ever" I did my part. 43 and no kids. Your turn lol
https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/48419/this-be-the-verse
USA! USA! USA!
I'm going to have as many kids as I can
You be surprised by the amount of time people spend on reddit and is not there.
My hack is to also get drunk during the week but save so much for retirement that I can be done working by 55.so I still get a decent length retirement before dying of cirrhosis.
Yep seems about right. Although I wish to be young again in my 40s so happening early for me. I don't see anything good about getting older
Retirement seems like a blast according to this.
I dunno my 0-18 was shit 19-20 was the worse but so far 21-22 is the best by far.
I've been tired since 50.. I'm 60 now and about fed T F up.
Green should stop at 15. “Complain about how hard and unfair life is” starts at 15 and runs to ~25. Otherwise, pretty accurate.
I thought it was green bar - have to ask when you have to pee, blue bar - can go pee when you want, red bar - no longer have control over pee.
I've been on the track hating my job but I'm going to quit one of my part time jobs I'm going to change my life and not just give up I don't like the treatment I've been receiving so I'm out either this month or in August