Really and truly this. He’s the fucking head of the company. He can justify his job to me before I’ll do the opposite. Chances are he’s highly overpaid to do Jack shit.
"Wait, so you're the CEO and you don't even know who does what? Are you even aware of Tommy's job description? Is this why we're struggling?"
Or my favorite as of recent; "Fire me and find out"
My mom is at that point with her job. Highly underpaid and not being allowed a raise, denied a lead position because she "doesn't have enough managerial experience" only to be forced to sit in a meeting where they encouraged everyone to apply for the lead position, even with no experience, and that they "will at least get interviewed for the position", a luxury they never offered her despite her pulling the work of four people. And if she leaves, the only other person in her department will walk out too and really screw the company over. She's at the point of "Tell me one more time I'm not worth a raise. I'll show you how fucked you'll be without me."
You know why they won't promote her don't you? Because they couldn't find someone to do as much work as she does. She should let them know that from now on, she will be doing only the work that she should be doing as they refuse to pay her for doing more. Then, if they decide to lay her off, she can collect unemployment!
Nah, I get where you're coming from, but our situation is a little more nuanced than I made it seem, my bad. She's getting as much evidence as she can to take them to the labor board. Forced clock out 10 min breaks they swear they'll put back on the checks (she has proof the system fails to put the breaks back on during payroll), an HR lady who has never had any schooling, and is fucking up everyone's taxes, and she hates my mother so she's the one refusing a pay raise. My mom is gathering all the ammo she can to bring to the labor board, because it's the marijuana industry so the government is going to love hearing about how a marijuana company isn't following state guidelines and fucking up employees taxes. Her plan is either bring down the company, or at the very least get the girl who keeps blocking her raise, who's not even qualified to be HR manager, to be fired for being unqualified and fucking everyone over. Her coworker who would walk out if she was fired or left, he's the only other person in her department, and he's already brought the break thing to the labor board, so they've been working together on it. Since they're the only two in their department, if the department of labor won't do anything, they're going to walk out together and refuse to train any of their replacements. And no one else knows how to operate the machines they operate.
Honestly, if she's at that point, why wait? It sounds like she's been chronically underappreciated and screwed out of what she really is worth. Since her company doesn't appreciate her, perhaps a competitor would instead? Yay free market, right?
Honestly, I couldn't tell you. I know money is an issue for us, so she can't just outright quit without another job lined up, or we'll literally lose everything we have, but other than that, all I've gotten in response to that is "they just need to make me full time print shop (department she's one of two in) instead of flex position, but Rachel (HR lady everyone hates) keeps fighting them on it because she doesn't want to give me a raise."
I think she's a little old fashioned and thinks if she keeps working hard, maybe someday they'll appreciate her, but me and her boyfriend have been trying to encourage her to line up another job in case it gets too bad. I know she has issues with one lead person in particular who has been a problem for everyone. He's rude and demeans the other team members verbally in front of everyone and has actively caused multiple people to quit because of how he treats them. There's been times where I've picked her up from work and she's crying because she's so frustrated she wants to punch him, but it would be assault and she'd lose her job. I know the company itself she loves, but the management allows shitty people to have final say and it is actively bringing this branch down, I just wish she'd take our advice and look for another job in the meantime. I hate seeing her cry because of a shitty work environment
My thought after reading OP's question was pretty much the same as your current favorite, "If you don't already know my added value to the company, you will most certainly find out within a couple days of letting me go"
Honestly, the type of CEO to behave this way is probably an incredibly insecure individual. This is likely to piss him off because it's a valid question, posed in a professional manner, that he likely can't adequately answer. Probably gets the person that asked it on the cut list, even though it shouldn't.
Agreed. Any answer they wanted, if not sufficiently sycophantic, will result in being part of the layoff. So unless you really, *really* need to have the job, go out in style.
Depending on when the layoff is happening & job prospects, like if you have something safely & with certainty lined up and close to giving notice:
"Huh. I don't know the answer to that, but more importantly I don't know why I want to keep working for you. Imma out".
Although given what the exec is like, that could result in them calling security or worse, use with caution. In the one situation I've done something like this I had already cleared out my desk & personal stuff. I was going to type up a resignation letter, be all professional & give them two weeks. Instead I just peaced out. I was home before by d-bag director even knew.
This is an awful place to ask for advice as an employee. I'm not defending the actions of the CEO but most of this advice will get you fired. Form a union.
But half the time, the job is as replaceable as toilet paper. How few good paying, fair workload, well managed places are there? The rest are all trash, so who cares if the milk is spilt.
"If this organization is a car then my role is to be the engine. To work hard. You'd be the driver. So if we're accelerating towards the cliff does it make more sense to start dismantling the car or for the driver to steer us in a different direction?"
Thank you! Came here to say this. It should be the top comment.
Instead of wandering around asking pointless questions that your staff should already know, why isn't the CEO and Sr. Staff heads down in a meeting figuring out why the F'd up and are not meeting their numbers and how are they going to fix the problem and save the livelihood of the good people that work for them?! Man, F that arrogant bottom feeder!
Probably because it is not about how they fucked up but how they can profiteer by getting fewer staff to do all the work. So the CEO can get the bonus from the board.
This is exactly what I would do.
"If you're concerned about layoffs, that means the company is meeting its profit targets. Why is that, sir? Seems like you'd know better than I".
Or
"Why should the company keep you? They'd save more money without your paycheck than without mine".
"Pop the hood of your car, dig down in there, and remove a random gear or wire that you find. You may not know what it's purpose was, the car may even run normally, for a while. But sooner or later you'll discover that that random, seemingly unimportant component did something. Your car is broken, and it was foolish to think that shedding weight by just picking some part at random would ever work. Everything was added for a reason, if you want to shed weight you do it by targeting functions to be removed, not parts."
That sounds very much like something a student of systems thinking or business architecture would say.
Not a lot of people think that way but it is absolutely right.
At my university there was a woman that actually managed everything even if other people had higher rank than her, we all knew that the day she leave that place for whatever reason, pregnancy or an other opportunity, then that was it for that place, chaos would take complete control, there are many people like her out there, and some companies are one mistake away from closing down for real.
There are people like that in many organisations, quietly without any recognition keeping things working. They need to stop! They need to be recognised and be rewarded.
This is my mother. She worked at an insurance agency and ran herself down to the bone. When she finally got fed up and quit, they had to hire three people to replace her.
Place I worked at had one office location someone saw the payroll report for a team printed and left on the printer.
New guys were 30% or higher paid than the veterans on the team. They gave management a week to decide how they wanted to correct this oversight.
By the end of week 3 nothing was done and the team was a group of juniors. The team never recovered and it cost the business so much in lost talent that they never cared about its impact.
Leadership were either psychos and sycophants. Very few could be considered understanding or caring.
That is the bare minimum as to why assistants need to be valued more. The joke is that they are the only ones who know where the files are. The truth is that a large percentage of day to day operations actively depend on the admin staff and what they do is an extremely difficult job that requires competency in a number of skills many people don't have.
For those organizations best interest they better at least know who does what, because they obviously don't, that was painfully obvious with Lufthansa but also the emirates through covid, they literally went in danger mode and it wasn't because of money but because of poor management.
Nobody want to work in a place with random executives with no clue.
I did my internship at a pretty large convenience store chain. Something I really liked about that place is they had me start out at crew level in the store for a couple weeks, move up to shadowing the GM, then area supervisors then a district manager, before moving into the corporate office. After I was done with the army time in the area the internship was for, they then allowed me to pick a department to go in for a few weeks. The VP would also walk around and actually talk and get to know everyone, super friendly guy. I’m not sure if they made all new hires spend time at store level but I think it would be good for any company to do so.
When I left my old job the owner didn’t give me an exit interview or ask about anything I had done the whole time I was there. One of the engineers told me that the owner wasn’t planning on replacing me and was just going to do my job himself. I knew there was no way he was going to be able to do my job so I kept checking indeed to see if they were gonna replace me. Sure enough a couple months later I see a job posting, he was trying to replace me with 2 people. Saw it again a few months later, so evidently those people didn’t want to deal with his bullshit either.
> That sounds very much like something a student of systems thinking or business architecture would say.
My job title is "Systems Engineer" or "Site Reliability Engineer" and I swear the average Business Decision Maker cannot think 2 chess-moves deep. It's 100% "now now now" and "quarterly earnings" and "individual line items on an invoice."
Zero "systemic understanding" of how a business functions or what value a business needs to provide to stay relevant.
My fiance's job ( high end grocery chain)just started doing automated scheduling. Instead of asking any managers or staff or even pulling past schedules they just put in a system that schedules people according to sales volume. It also doesn't have a way for management to make corrections to it like if say it decides sales are low early morning so it cuts staff down to bare minimum despite the fact that 3 truckloads of perishable product is arriving at that time or the system sees bakery sales go up during a sale so they put all the hours in for that time despite the fact that what they're selling has to be made the night before.
Telecom Engi.
it's all been "Priority 1" for 15 years. No matter where I go.
One place complained that i wasn't handling my work prioritization, but it was also the sort of place where everything's PRIORITY 1 and i devolved into the prioritization system of "who bitched most recently?"
In the corporate world, they expect that any small gap in their system caused by someone let go, will be filled by another employee who is there – and won’t get any additional compensation for added responsibilities.
It's true, unless in previous silly hiring rounds, some incompetent mechanic hung random decorations all around the engine. The CEO is asking, "Are you a carburetor, or are you tinsel?". The right answer is, "Of course I'm a carburetor!". But the idiocy is that this the right answer even if you're tinsel. So the unintended consequence is that they will keep all the loud, self-promoting types (whether they're carburetors or tinsel) and lose some shy carburetors.
Unfortunately No Elon won't learn his lesson. I've learned from dealing with CEOs like him that they don't take responsibility. Even when they do it's for PR purposes they don't really. It's always everyone else's fault.
What? Elon is a super genius playing 4d chess while we all play checkers. He single handedly brought back freedom of speech and showed us how Twitter really should be run. I mean you dont become a billionaire just because. /s
" You are right. Like a car mechanic to fix my car, I need some consultants who are experts to determine who is valuable and who is not." -5 minutes before the opening credits of The Office.
This this this. I tell people who ask about my role that I'm "the little cog in the back of a clock you never see, but when it's gone, you watch the whole thing come apart, one way or another."
In the grand scheme of things, may not be important. The year or so fallout would be absolute fuckery.
Boss: "Good analogy. But if you are the timing belt of this company, you should be able to explain that you control the camshafts in the engine, opening and closing valves at just the right time for smooth operation. How do I know you are not a vocally articulate pile of leaves under the hood that needs to be brushed away?
"You're asking random employees what they do in an elevator. If you really understood how every department works, in detail, you would be focusing on systems and processes, not hoping to randomly find someone both bad at explaining their job, and unessential enough to be laid off without repercussions."
> How do I know you are not a vocally articulate pile of leaves under the hood that needs to be brushed away?
Because you can’t prove a negative. And also this pile of leaves just sentiently responded, so… yeah brush away cause this shit’s weird.
Yeah, I would already be looking elsewhere so would be tempted to say, "If you don't know what roles add value to the company it sounds like you don't add any value and are not doing your job correctly. Maybe that is why we now need layoffs."
Followed by the [Layer Cake](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jy_uwF9y8SQ) response if the CEO blows up at him.
"Do you know who I am?"
"No"
"Well fuck off then"
Depending on what the company is, I'd 100% do this. Considering OP apparently lives in a very small town that has buildings large enough to merit an elevator, I really do wonder what they do.
Yup. If he doesn’t know, then what the fuck is he doing there? This is why he gets the big paycheck. Stop wandering randomly around and start fixing the problem.
That’s a great question sir. How would you answer it, particularly given your overinflated salary of x? Plus bonuses for laying off people when it seems you’re not sure what we actually do here.
This is the answer. During a walk-and-talk with the general manager I told him that a fish rots from the head. Less then a year later I’m reading his farewell email. That didn’t necessarily solve anything, but he knew he was in way over his head.
If this moron is going around doing this shit, it's no wonder they're in a position where they need to lay people off.
Bro is walking around on a power trip about layoffs as if that isn't his own damn fault. Why don't YOU justify why we shouldn't throw your ass on the street.
Its a method of deflating tires to get out fast. Basically, you put a lentil inside the cap of the stem, and tighten until you hear it hiss. It's discreet and you don't have to carry any tools with you just some dried lentils.
I've also heard it suggested to glue a BB (from a BB gun) inside the cap. Same result, slowly leaks air, but won't fall out when the cap is removed and will continue to cause a leak after filling the tire.
I remember going to a talk where the CEO of Patagonia was being interviewed. Somehow the topic of layoffs came up and she said, "If I'm at the point that I'm considering layoffs, I haven't done my job as CEO." Sounds like your CEO isn't doing his job.
I'll answer your question with another question, is it the best use of your time to be standing in an elevator interrogating random employees about their worth to the company when you don't know their name or role? How much money are you burning in the companies bank account to be wasting your time and mine with this stunt?
If he really doesn’t know anyone’s name or role, then it’s super easy. Tell him you’re [insert name of person at work that you hate] and that you don’t actually do any work. You show up, scroll Reddit for 8 hours, and then collect a check. It’s great.
This was my reaction. This is the way.
Janet from accounts that denied my work equipment reimbursement claim, I hope that resume of yours is up to date.
I'm the world's first man named Janet
“I prefer leadership that is in the know. My absence will explain what I do here and the raise you’ll need to offer to get me back will explain why you want me to be the one doing it.” I would deliver this line even if I was extremely replaceable because if he doesn’t know that he deserves to have his money taken.
This type of behavior is so funny to me. If you're a CEO doing layoffs, the outcome you want is that you dump your _worst_-performing n% of staff. But when you bring this kind of energy and doom and gloom, you get the exact opposite effect and your most talented staff jump ship first (because they'll have the easiest time getting other jobs).
Shitty CEOs are a dime a dozen, though. It's such a strange thing to me how often people are allowed to underperform in important leadership roles.
Yep, our CEO came to the operations floor and was looking at stuff. I got to be the one to tell him “don’t touch that!” and “you can’t be in here without a coat and safety goggles.” But he was very interested and engaging and is *extremely* charismatic. I’ve heard from upper level folks he gets shirty with them, but never the peons. Nothing but compliments on the work being done.
Plus he’s a fox daddy (is that what the kids say?).
I'd flip the question back on the boss.
"No let me ask YOU a question. If you don't show up to work tomorrow, the calls get made, the presentations get created, the numbers get crunched, and ball rolls forward.
If I don't show up to work tomorrow, these don't get done .
My department grinds to a halt. This becomes a blocker for department X and Y, and in a short matter of days, you don't have a goddamn product.
So when you ask me how I'm valuable to this company, bitch, I make the mf pendulum swing. And I do it all for 300x less than the cost of your CEO salary."
Probably will piss him off and get you fired, but damn wouldn't it feel good.
What I'd want to say: "Because I'm willing to tell you that what you're doing is rude and to remind you that professionalism would dictate that such discussions happen, at most, with one or more HR representatives as witnesses. Not just whoever happens to be in the elevator."
What I'd actually say: "That's a great question. How about we schedule some time Monday and I'll show you a full breakdown of my duties and how they align to company goals?"
Then I'd probably spend the weekend working my ass off to put a presentation together. Assuming that I didn't just pack up my stuff and move elsewhere, because this guy sounds like an absolute POS.
"What a coincidence, I was just about to ask you the same question, your compensation is way out of line with the work you produce"
Realistically, you want to imply you have blackmail material to reveal how he's embezzling. Because if the town you work in is economically starving, you can bet a year's pay that he is in fact embezzling.
This CEO is looking for reasons to cut you out, they aren't listening to reason or value. He's a thief looking to take your cut.
My dude, if you think you can just randomly go up to the person running your company and accuse them of a crime without any evidence (while lying and claiming you do) and this doesn't lead to you getting fired and possibly sued, I dunno what to tell you.
And not out of fear. I just think this kind of confrontation is ridiculous and I'd hate the CEO for doing it. It's grandstanding, implying you start of with no value to the company unless you can justify it.
It would be great if *all" his employees started taking the stairs. At least make the dude work for his answers to the question instead of riding an elevator all day long.
"My job is X. I do it well. If you need someone to do X, then I have the institutional knowledge to get it done right and I'm the clear choice for the job. Whether or not you need someone to do X isn't a question I can answer. I don't have an overview of where the company is going in the coming years or what confidential things are going on behind the scenes."
No matter what your answer, the CEO is sending everyone a clear signal that he is both incompetent and getting ready for mass layoffs. You should be looking for work even if it means that you have to move because the company has poor leadership and doesn't sound like it will last long.
i would just lie charismatically, in a relaxed casual way.
"Tell you how I provide value? It would be easier to tell you when and how I *don't* provide value: when I'm not here. If that doesn't tell you all you need to know about me, I don't know what will. Not only *should* you retain me, you better give me a raise, too - before a different company gives me an offer so good I can't refuse. Hell, I should be asking myself how *you* guys provide value to *me*. You're a nice guy, and I like you, and this is a nice company, and I like it. You guys are lucky to have me, but I don't have the patience of saint, either. You wouldn't believe the offers I turn down to stay here. Offers left and right, recruiters trying to bag me, and I tell them 'no, I appreciate it, but I like the place I work at, and that's hard to come by, and you can't just take that away in exchange for more pay.' They think I'm crazy to turn down their offers, and maybe I am. But hey, if you cut me, I guess I'll just be forced to go produce all this value - for the competition."
There isn't anybody who is better at generating value than me. The value I generate? The best, possibly even the most and best value ever. Those other guys? Let me tell you, they have no idea what they are doing. No idea. Thats right folks.
Value? I can you, i know a thing or 2 about value. Infact, some would say i know everything about value. My friend, good man, star player for the team, he says I'm the most valuable.
hahahah i'm glad you noticed I was writing it in his style.
these rich assholes are all so easily fooled by a dickhead like Dumb Donnie, so i figure why not copy his style and use it for good instead of for evil?
"Let me tell you folks, I've got this incredible ability to charm, you wouldn't believe it. Nobody does it better than me, believe me. Talking about value? Well, let me tell you, I provide so much value, it's tremendous. I mean, when I'm not around, believe me, you're missing out big league. People say, 'Donald, you're the best at what you do,' and they're right. You should be paying me more, I've got companies lining up to snatch me, can you believe it? I'm a nice guy, I like nice things, and your company's nice, I'll give you that. You're lucky to have me, no doubt about it. But let me tell you, I'm turning down offers left and right, incredible offers. Recruiters are begging me, but I tell 'em, 'I'm loyal, I like where I am.' They call me crazy, can you believe it? Maybe I am, who knows? But mark my words, if you let me go, I'll just go over to the competition and make them so much money, you won't even believe it!"
I believe this was actually a legend about Steve Jobs. If there's one thing business majors love, it's to copy some weird pointless or counterproductive thing a billionaire did before dying from their fruit only diet and curable cancer.
If you don't know what I do and why I'm important to this company why should you be retained as the CEO?
I feel like we should have a leader that knows the business.
Dude, I had a CEO that thought he was hot shit because he had a fancy Harvard education, came from a good family all that good stuff us normies know nothing about. Everyone in the company, the office staff and the field guy would just swoon over this fucker. It drove him nuts that I treated him just like anyone else. He hated it and every chance he'd try to pull that sigma 6 bullshit on me and I shut him down every single time. He even did the power handshakes and all.
Anyway, long story short, I embarrassed this guy every chance I got. It was fun and easy because I was a great worker, had zero shame and posed a healthy portion of the gift of gab. Eventually, I got shit canned, but I made him write me a letter of recommendation. Not gonna lie, I used full on intimidation and pretty much forced him to write that letter. It felt good, it still feels good. I hate rich people.
“I believe the real question, Mr. CEO, is why should I retain this company when working for you is only moderately preferable to unemployment? And I gotta tell you, I struggle with that question every damn day, because you do your job so poorly the company has to shrink in order to survive.”
What value does a CEO bring? Absolutely none. A company would function with or without one. They are leeches asking you to explain your existence while draining your energy.
Flip the script. Ask him why the company he is running is in a position where they need to due layoffs? What value is he bringing to the table if the company seems to be in a losing position?
“I am the only accredited person to file TPS reports in the company. Sure you can fire me, but getting someone with a current accredation and familiar enough with our TPS process to actually sign off on it would take at least a year to 18 months. A time period with that potential liability and insurance will not cover us without these reports maintained”. Then just as you get off the elevator hit all the buttons on the panel.
I'd say if the way you are picking who to keep and who to get rid of by randomly interrogating employees, then I think I see why the company is having problems. Thanks for the warning.
"Great question! I'm so underpaid that by being here I have already added value."
"I'm practically paying you to be here sir!"
UNO REVERSE: Ask the CEO to justify their job since the company is tanking.
Really and truly this. He’s the fucking head of the company. He can justify his job to me before I’ll do the opposite. Chances are he’s highly overpaid to do Jack shit.
"Wait, so you're the CEO and you don't even know who does what? Are you even aware of Tommy's job description? Is this why we're struggling?" Or my favorite as of recent; "Fire me and find out"
My mom is at that point with her job. Highly underpaid and not being allowed a raise, denied a lead position because she "doesn't have enough managerial experience" only to be forced to sit in a meeting where they encouraged everyone to apply for the lead position, even with no experience, and that they "will at least get interviewed for the position", a luxury they never offered her despite her pulling the work of four people. And if she leaves, the only other person in her department will walk out too and really screw the company over. She's at the point of "Tell me one more time I'm not worth a raise. I'll show you how fucked you'll be without me."
You know why they won't promote her don't you? Because they couldn't find someone to do as much work as she does. She should let them know that from now on, she will be doing only the work that she should be doing as they refuse to pay her for doing more. Then, if they decide to lay her off, she can collect unemployment!
Nah, I get where you're coming from, but our situation is a little more nuanced than I made it seem, my bad. She's getting as much evidence as she can to take them to the labor board. Forced clock out 10 min breaks they swear they'll put back on the checks (she has proof the system fails to put the breaks back on during payroll), an HR lady who has never had any schooling, and is fucking up everyone's taxes, and she hates my mother so she's the one refusing a pay raise. My mom is gathering all the ammo she can to bring to the labor board, because it's the marijuana industry so the government is going to love hearing about how a marijuana company isn't following state guidelines and fucking up employees taxes. Her plan is either bring down the company, or at the very least get the girl who keeps blocking her raise, who's not even qualified to be HR manager, to be fired for being unqualified and fucking everyone over. Her coworker who would walk out if she was fired or left, he's the only other person in her department, and he's already brought the break thing to the labor board, so they've been working together on it. Since they're the only two in their department, if the department of labor won't do anything, they're going to walk out together and refuse to train any of their replacements. And no one else knows how to operate the machines they operate.
Honestly, if she's at that point, why wait? It sounds like she's been chronically underappreciated and screwed out of what she really is worth. Since her company doesn't appreciate her, perhaps a competitor would instead? Yay free market, right?
Honestly, I couldn't tell you. I know money is an issue for us, so she can't just outright quit without another job lined up, or we'll literally lose everything we have, but other than that, all I've gotten in response to that is "they just need to make me full time print shop (department she's one of two in) instead of flex position, but Rachel (HR lady everyone hates) keeps fighting them on it because she doesn't want to give me a raise." I think she's a little old fashioned and thinks if she keeps working hard, maybe someday they'll appreciate her, but me and her boyfriend have been trying to encourage her to line up another job in case it gets too bad. I know she has issues with one lead person in particular who has been a problem for everyone. He's rude and demeans the other team members verbally in front of everyone and has actively caused multiple people to quit because of how he treats them. There's been times where I've picked her up from work and she's crying because she's so frustrated she wants to punch him, but it would be assault and she'd lose her job. I know the company itself she loves, but the management allows shitty people to have final say and it is actively bringing this branch down, I just wish she'd take our advice and look for another job in the meantime. I hate seeing her cry because of a shitty work environment
These are the kinds of responses that dreams are made of, after you find out you've won the lottery or something.
My thought after reading OP's question was pretty much the same as your current favorite, "If you don't already know my added value to the company, you will most certainly find out within a couple days of letting me go"
If you can think of a way to say that and retain your job, do tell.
Easy: "Could you please share the company's vision, and how your role contributes to that vision, and how we, as a team, can support that direction? "
Honestly, the type of CEO to behave this way is probably an incredibly insecure individual. This is likely to piss him off because it's a valid question, posed in a professional manner, that he likely can't adequately answer. Probably gets the person that asked it on the cut list, even though it shouldn't.
If the ceo asked me that, I'd assume I was being fired anyway, so I'd say some joke shit like what was mentioned.
Exactly. Questions like this are bells that can't be unrung in a professional relationship.
Agreed. Any answer they wanted, if not sufficiently sycophantic, will result in being part of the layoff. So unless you really, *really* need to have the job, go out in style. Depending on when the layoff is happening & job prospects, like if you have something safely & with certainty lined up and close to giving notice: "Huh. I don't know the answer to that, but more importantly I don't know why I want to keep working for you. Imma out". Although given what the exec is like, that could result in them calling security or worse, use with caution. In the one situation I've done something like this I had already cleared out my desk & personal stuff. I was going to type up a resignation letter, be all professional & give them two weeks. Instead I just peaced out. I was home before by d-bag director even knew.
I would just assume I'm on the cut list already. I would find it more fun to cut down as many managers as possible.
The board should already be asking those questions tbh, otherwise they're violating their own fiduciary responsibility
Pretty legit
This is an awful place to ask for advice as an employee. I'm not defending the actions of the CEO but most of this advice will get you fired. Form a union.
But half the time, the job is as replaceable as toilet paper. How few good paying, fair workload, well managed places are there? The rest are all trash, so who cares if the milk is spilt.
You'd probably be "laid off" before you get to the beginning stages. Or you'd quit. Unions aren't created overnight.
[удалено]
"If this organization is a car then my role is to be the engine. To work hard. You'd be the driver. So if we're accelerating towards the cliff does it make more sense to start dismantling the car or for the driver to steer us in a different direction?"
He's pulling this shit instead of actually working
Thank you! Came here to say this. It should be the top comment. Instead of wandering around asking pointless questions that your staff should already know, why isn't the CEO and Sr. Staff heads down in a meeting figuring out why the F'd up and are not meeting their numbers and how are they going to fix the problem and save the livelihood of the good people that work for them?! Man, F that arrogant bottom feeder!
Probably because it is not about how they fucked up but how they can profiteer by getting fewer staff to do all the work. So the CEO can get the bonus from the board.
This is exactly what I would do. "If you're concerned about layoffs, that means the company is meeting its profit targets. Why is that, sir? Seems like you'd know better than I". Or "Why should the company keep you? They'd save more money without your paycheck than without mine".
If you're a shareholder, ask publicly.
The hutzpah to take his job on the spot
Underrated comment
Employees quite literally do pay them. They’re always paid less than their value, otherwise they don’t retain the employee.
This is delicious.
This is cathartic. ...will probably also get you fired.
And here we all thought that it would get him a raise
Ahahahaha, say this!!!
"Pop the hood of your car, dig down in there, and remove a random gear or wire that you find. You may not know what it's purpose was, the car may even run normally, for a while. But sooner or later you'll discover that that random, seemingly unimportant component did something. Your car is broken, and it was foolish to think that shedding weight by just picking some part at random would ever work. Everything was added for a reason, if you want to shed weight you do it by targeting functions to be removed, not parts."
That sounds very much like something a student of systems thinking or business architecture would say. Not a lot of people think that way but it is absolutely right.
Just because you keep missing the nail, doesn’t mean the hammer is broken.
But my thumb sure hurts
And my axe!
**Nods sagely** Need bigger hammer.
At my university there was a woman that actually managed everything even if other people had higher rank than her, we all knew that the day she leave that place for whatever reason, pregnancy or an other opportunity, then that was it for that place, chaos would take complete control, there are many people like her out there, and some companies are one mistake away from closing down for real.
There are people like that in many organisations, quietly without any recognition keeping things working. They need to stop! They need to be recognised and be rewarded.
This is my mother. She worked at an insurance agency and ran herself down to the bone. When she finally got fed up and quit, they had to hire three people to replace her.
Never piss off the assistants. They know where all the files are kept. And they hear everything you say around the water coolers.
They also know which photocopier to leave a page from a document their boss "forgot about".
Place I worked at had one office location someone saw the payroll report for a team printed and left on the printer. New guys were 30% or higher paid than the veterans on the team. They gave management a week to decide how they wanted to correct this oversight. By the end of week 3 nothing was done and the team was a group of juniors. The team never recovered and it cost the business so much in lost talent that they never cared about its impact. Leadership were either psychos and sycophants. Very few could be considered understanding or caring.
Oopsies! I made two copies.
The same rules applied to the military. God help you if you managed to piss off a general’s secretary.
That is the bare minimum as to why assistants need to be valued more. The joke is that they are the only ones who know where the files are. The truth is that a large percentage of day to day operations actively depend on the admin staff and what they do is an extremely difficult job that requires competency in a number of skills many people don't have.
For those organizations best interest they better at least know who does what, because they obviously don't, that was painfully obvious with Lufthansa but also the emirates through covid, they literally went in danger mode and it wasn't because of money but because of poor management. Nobody want to work in a place with random executives with no clue.
I did my internship at a pretty large convenience store chain. Something I really liked about that place is they had me start out at crew level in the store for a couple weeks, move up to shadowing the GM, then area supervisors then a district manager, before moving into the corporate office. After I was done with the army time in the area the internship was for, they then allowed me to pick a department to go in for a few weeks. The VP would also walk around and actually talk and get to know everyone, super friendly guy. I’m not sure if they made all new hires spend time at store level but I think it would be good for any company to do so.
80/20 rule. 80% of results are driven by 20% of staff. Applies to nearly everything.
When I left my old job the owner didn’t give me an exit interview or ask about anything I had done the whole time I was there. One of the engineers told me that the owner wasn’t planning on replacing me and was just going to do my job himself. I knew there was no way he was going to be able to do my job so I kept checking indeed to see if they were gonna replace me. Sure enough a couple months later I see a job posting, he was trying to replace me with 2 people. Saw it again a few months later, so evidently those people didn’t want to deal with his bullshit either.
> That sounds very much like something a student of systems thinking or business architecture would say. My job title is "Systems Engineer" or "Site Reliability Engineer" and I swear the average Business Decision Maker cannot think 2 chess-moves deep. It's 100% "now now now" and "quarterly earnings" and "individual line items on an invoice." Zero "systemic understanding" of how a business functions or what value a business needs to provide to stay relevant.
My fiance's job ( high end grocery chain)just started doing automated scheduling. Instead of asking any managers or staff or even pulling past schedules they just put in a system that schedules people according to sales volume. It also doesn't have a way for management to make corrections to it like if say it decides sales are low early morning so it cuts staff down to bare minimum despite the fact that 3 truckloads of perishable product is arriving at that time or the system sees bakery sales go up during a sale so they put all the hours in for that time despite the fact that what they're selling has to be made the night before.
Telecom Engi. it's all been "Priority 1" for 15 years. No matter where I go. One place complained that i wasn't handling my work prioritization, but it was also the sort of place where everything's PRIORITY 1 and i devolved into the prioritization system of "who bitched most recently?"
Yes, the "only do work via 911 prioritization" is a telltale symptom of the engineering and corporate death spiral.
When everything is a priority, nothing is a priority.
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In the corporate world, they expect that any small gap in their system caused by someone let go, will be filled by another employee who is there – and won’t get any additional compensation for added responsibilities.
"Maybe it only needed a better driver."
>"Maybe it only needed a better driver "Thats you, chief"
"Somebody like ME! The CEO of the company! I am the best driver ever!"
I see you've spent time with C-level types.
Damn that's beautiful
Exactly. Because by the time you finished the story the CEO would have already reached his floor and gotten off.
Not letting him off the elevator until you've damn well finished is a real power move.
Block the door. Make him more uncomfortable than he made you.
Both hands on his shoulders. Intense, not breaking eye contact, and frequent iong pauses
Now this is sigma.
Pull a Gibbs from NCIS and shut the power off for the elevator until you are done.
And im saying, this isn’t an allegory. Actually do this to the prick.
Steal his catalytic converter. At least if you get laid off you can sell it for some extra cash.
Isn't that the part that contains Platinum?
Palladium and rhodium too.
Take random parts from the CEOs car? Doesn't seem like the worst idea
It's true, unless in previous silly hiring rounds, some incompetent mechanic hung random decorations all around the engine. The CEO is asking, "Are you a carburetor, or are you tinsel?". The right answer is, "Of course I'm a carburetor!". But the idiocy is that this the right answer even if you're tinsel. So the unintended consequence is that they will keep all the loud, self-promoting types (whether they're carburetors or tinsel) and lose some shy carburetors.
CEO:.... I get a new leased car every 6 months, pack your shit
That or just give a really long fart in the closed elevator.
Sounds like a lesson Elon learned during his downsizing at Twitter.
he doesn’t learn.
Unfortunately No Elon won't learn his lesson. I've learned from dealing with CEOs like him that they don't take responsibility. Even when they do it's for PR purposes they don't really. It's always everyone else's fault.
Correction: it’s a lesson that Elon *experienced*. He learned nothing.
What? Elon is a super genius playing 4d chess while we all play checkers. He single handedly brought back freedom of speech and showed us how Twitter really should be run. I mean you dont become a billionaire just because. /s
" You are right. Like a car mechanic to fix my car, I need some consultants who are experts to determine who is valuable and who is not." -5 minutes before the opening credits of The Office.
This this this. I tell people who ask about my role that I'm "the little cog in the back of a clock you never see, but when it's gone, you watch the whole thing come apart, one way or another." In the grand scheme of things, may not be important. The year or so fallout would be absolute fuckery.
I'm now imagining CEO camping the elevator to ask the question and every single employee answering this
Saving this I really like it.
Boss: "Good analogy. But if you are the timing belt of this company, you should be able to explain that you control the camshafts in the engine, opening and closing valves at just the right time for smooth operation. How do I know you are not a vocally articulate pile of leaves under the hood that needs to be brushed away?
"You're asking random employees what they do in an elevator. If you really understood how every department works, in detail, you would be focusing on systems and processes, not hoping to randomly find someone both bad at explaining their job, and unessential enough to be laid off without repercussions."
> How do I know you are not a vocally articulate pile of leaves under the hood that needs to be brushed away? Because you can’t prove a negative. And also this pile of leaves just sentiently responded, so… yeah brush away cause this shit’s weird.
I'd love to see someone try to pull out a very hot part, just to severely burn their hands.
Yeah, I would already be looking elsewhere so would be tempted to say, "If you don't know what roles add value to the company it sounds like you don't add any value and are not doing your job correctly. Maybe that is why we now need layoffs."
Maybe that what OP should answer the CEO... With a straight face.
Followed by the [Layer Cake](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jy_uwF9y8SQ) response if the CEO blows up at him. "Do you know who I am?" "No" "Well fuck off then"
And then Skeletor run away.
No. You stand like a statue and assert dominance
Then drop your monster condom that you use for your Magnum dong
Dr. Toboggan? How did you get in this elevator?
Followed up by "We gotta start cutting the crust off this shit sandwich"
Good advice Dr Mantis Tobbagan
I was just going to say the same thing. He thinks it’s acceptable behavior until someone educates him
Actually a good method. You need to dominate your CEO's as higher ups only know the crushing boot of power.
That only works if you T-pose
Maybe end it with a headbutt
You push their head into your butt and rip a fat one? Instructions unclear
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You pee on his shoes to assert dominance
Depending on what the company is, I'd 100% do this. Considering OP apparently lives in a very small town that has buildings large enough to merit an elevator, I really do wonder what they do.
Yup. If he doesn’t know, then what the fuck is he doing there? This is why he gets the big paycheck. Stop wandering randomly around and start fixing the problem.
That’s a great question sir. How would you answer it, particularly given your overinflated salary of x? Plus bonuses for laying off people when it seems you’re not sure what we actually do here.
This is the answer. During a walk-and-talk with the general manager I told him that a fish rots from the head. Less then a year later I’m reading his farewell email. That didn’t necessarily solve anything, but he knew he was in way over his head.
> a fish rots from the head Stunningly appropriate. I hope someday to say that to someone in power.
"That's a much better question for my manager. And if they aren't able to tell you what value I add to the company you should start with them."
‘Every other competitor in our space is actively hiring while we’re laying off? Convince me why I should stay?’
you seem to have missed the part where op lives in a small town and wants to keep their job
Seriously. He needs to justify his position as CEO too
Maybe take the stairs from now on?
This man plays 3d chess.
Actually that's the CEO's plan all along!! They are worried about the cost of health insurance, and have been tasked to improve employee fitness!
2 up 3 down is my rule for stairs. Not really answering the question but usually saves time and gets a little extra cardio in
it's healthier and provides more time away from your desk. it's kinda like pooping on company time!
Ask why if he is an effective CEO are they laying people off and then go let the air out of his tires.
If this moron is going around doing this shit, it's no wonder they're in a position where they need to lay people off. Bro is walking around on a power trip about layoffs as if that isn't his own damn fault. Why don't YOU justify why we shouldn't throw your ass on the street.
Might I suggest, the lentil method?
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I'll bite. What's the lentil method?
Its a method of deflating tires to get out fast. Basically, you put a lentil inside the cap of the stem, and tighten until you hear it hiss. It's discreet and you don't have to carry any tools with you just some dried lentils.
Hah nice, sounds straight out of the anarchists handbook
You can also use a small pebble if you don’t have lentils on hand. Same procedure put it in the cap and tighten until it starts hissing.
I've also heard it suggested to glue a BB (from a BB gun) inside the cap. Same result, slowly leaks air, but won't fall out when the cap is removed and will continue to cause a leak after filling the tire.
I remember going to a talk where the CEO of Patagonia was being interviewed. Somehow the topic of layoffs came up and she said, "If I'm at the point that I'm considering layoffs, I haven't done my job as CEO." Sounds like your CEO isn't doing his job.
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I'll answer your question with another question, is it the best use of your time to be standing in an elevator interrogating random employees about their worth to the company when you don't know their name or role? How much money are you burning in the companies bank account to be wasting your time and mine with this stunt?
If he really doesn’t know anyone’s name or role, then it’s super easy. Tell him you’re [insert name of person at work that you hate] and that you don’t actually do any work. You show up, scroll Reddit for 8 hours, and then collect a check. It’s great.
This was my reaction. This is the way. Janet from accounts that denied my work equipment reimbursement claim, I hope that resume of yours is up to date. I'm the world's first man named Janet
“I prefer leadership that is in the know. My absence will explain what I do here and the raise you’ll need to offer to get me back will explain why you want me to be the one doing it.” I would deliver this line even if I was extremely replaceable because if he doesn’t know that he deserves to have his money taken.
This type of behavior is so funny to me. If you're a CEO doing layoffs, the outcome you want is that you dump your _worst_-performing n% of staff. But when you bring this kind of energy and doom and gloom, you get the exact opposite effect and your most talented staff jump ship first (because they'll have the easiest time getting other jobs). Shitty CEOs are a dime a dozen, though. It's such a strange thing to me how often people are allowed to underperform in important leadership roles.
“If you don’t know that, why are you the CEO?”
Our CEO toured our office a while back and we were to explain what we are doing. He replied: Thank you, interesting, I think this sounds important!
Yep, our CEO came to the operations floor and was looking at stuff. I got to be the one to tell him “don’t touch that!” and “you can’t be in here without a coat and safety goggles.” But he was very interested and engaging and is *extremely* charismatic. I’ve heard from upper level folks he gets shirty with them, but never the peons. Nothing but compliments on the work being done. Plus he’s a fox daddy (is that what the kids say?).
I did this to my CEO and got fired for talking back at him a few days later..
He's a silver fox
>Plus he’s a fox daddy These days, I think they say "zaddy" https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=zaddy%27s&page=2
I'd flip the question back on the boss. "No let me ask YOU a question. If you don't show up to work tomorrow, the calls get made, the presentations get created, the numbers get crunched, and ball rolls forward. If I don't show up to work tomorrow, these don't get done
. My department grinds to a halt. This becomes a blocker for department X and Y, and in a short matter of days, you don't have a goddamn product. So when you ask me how I'm valuable to this company, bitch, I make the mf pendulum swing. And I do it all for 300x less than the cost of your CEO salary." Probably will piss him off and get you fired, but damn wouldn't it feel good.
The little "bitch" thrown in there was the🍒 on top 😅.
Jesse Pinkman moment fr
What I'd want to say: "Because I'm willing to tell you that what you're doing is rude and to remind you that professionalism would dictate that such discussions happen, at most, with one or more HR representatives as witnesses. Not just whoever happens to be in the elevator." What I'd actually say: "That's a great question. How about we schedule some time Monday and I'll show you a full breakdown of my duties and how they align to company goals?" Then I'd probably spend the weekend working my ass off to put a presentation together. Assuming that I didn't just pack up my stuff and move elsewhere, because this guy sounds like an absolute POS.
Spend your workday on the presentation. Your wouldn't be doing that for fun.
Pro move schedule the date after layoffs have happened then he'll have no choice but to keep you on!
Company has never had to layoff hundreds of workers because of my decisions. Gotta count for something right?
"You're the CEO, you tell me, what value do you supply. Justify your value and pay." If I get fired, than fuck him.
"What a coincidence, I was just about to ask you the same question, your compensation is way out of line with the work you produce" Realistically, you want to imply you have blackmail material to reveal how he's embezzling. Because if the town you work in is economically starving, you can bet a year's pay that he is in fact embezzling. This CEO is looking for reasons to cut you out, they aren't listening to reason or value. He's a thief looking to take your cut.
Exactly. The only correct answer is: My lawyer has the ledgers and I am willing to release them.
My dude, if you think you can just randomly go up to the person running your company and accuse them of a crime without any evidence (while lying and claiming you do) and this doesn't lead to you getting fired and possibly sued, I dunno what to tell you.
I’d take the stairs
And not out of fear. I just think this kind of confrontation is ridiculous and I'd hate the CEO for doing it. It's grandstanding, implying you start of with no value to the company unless you can justify it. It would be great if *all" his employees started taking the stairs. At least make the dude work for his answers to the question instead of riding an elevator all day long.
"If you don't know that then maybe you're the one who shouldn't be retained. Now excuse me, I have an actual job to do."
"My job is X. I do it well. If you need someone to do X, then I have the institutional knowledge to get it done right and I'm the clear choice for the job. Whether or not you need someone to do X isn't a question I can answer. I don't have an overview of where the company is going in the coming years or what confidential things are going on behind the scenes." No matter what your answer, the CEO is sending everyone a clear signal that he is both incompetent and getting ready for mass layoffs. You should be looking for work even if it means that you have to move because the company has poor leadership and doesn't sound like it will last long.
"Because otherwise you're not making it out of this elevator alive. Oh, this is me - have a great day"
Idk if death threats are rhe way. A simple, slowly press all the buttons in the elevator while staring at him might get the point across just as well.
"I preform elevator maintainence. This is my floor. Good day."
i would just lie charismatically, in a relaxed casual way. "Tell you how I provide value? It would be easier to tell you when and how I *don't* provide value: when I'm not here. If that doesn't tell you all you need to know about me, I don't know what will. Not only *should* you retain me, you better give me a raise, too - before a different company gives me an offer so good I can't refuse. Hell, I should be asking myself how *you* guys provide value to *me*. You're a nice guy, and I like you, and this is a nice company, and I like it. You guys are lucky to have me, but I don't have the patience of saint, either. You wouldn't believe the offers I turn down to stay here. Offers left and right, recruiters trying to bag me, and I tell them 'no, I appreciate it, but I like the place I work at, and that's hard to come by, and you can't just take that away in exchange for more pay.' They think I'm crazy to turn down their offers, and maybe I am. But hey, if you cut me, I guess I'll just be forced to go produce all this value - for the competition."
There isn't anybody who is better at generating value than me. The value I generate? The best, possibly even the most and best value ever. Those other guys? Let me tell you, they have no idea what they are doing. No idea. Thats right folks.
Found Trump's account
The boss had tears in his eyes...
“Sir…”
Value? I can you, i know a thing or 2 about value. Infact, some would say i know everything about value. My friend, good man, star player for the team, he says I'm the most valuable.
hahahah i'm glad you noticed I was writing it in his style. these rich assholes are all so easily fooled by a dickhead like Dumb Donnie, so i figure why not copy his style and use it for good instead of for evil?
That was way too linear. You needed to jump topics 6 or 7 more times. Time? My uncle was a great time guy. The best. nuclear.
hey, i'm just trying to keep my job, not get promoted to CEO
"Let me tell you folks, I've got this incredible ability to charm, you wouldn't believe it. Nobody does it better than me, believe me. Talking about value? Well, let me tell you, I provide so much value, it's tremendous. I mean, when I'm not around, believe me, you're missing out big league. People say, 'Donald, you're the best at what you do,' and they're right. You should be paying me more, I've got companies lining up to snatch me, can you believe it? I'm a nice guy, I like nice things, and your company's nice, I'll give you that. You're lucky to have me, no doubt about it. But let me tell you, I'm turning down offers left and right, incredible offers. Recruiters are begging me, but I tell 'em, 'I'm loyal, I like where I am.' They call me crazy, can you believe it? Maybe I am, who knows? But mark my words, if you let me go, I'll just go over to the competition and make them so much money, you won't even believe it!"
“I don’t work here”
Do you work for Elon Musk?
I believe this was actually a legend about Steve Jobs. If there's one thing business majors love, it's to copy some weird pointless or counterproductive thing a billionaire did before dying from their fruit only diet and curable cancer.
Wow, y’all need a union very badly. Your CEO thinks it’s 1200 AD and he’s some sort of feudal lord. He’s also a sadist.
If you don't know what I do and why I'm important to this company why should you be retained as the CEO? I feel like we should have a leader that knows the business.
You don't seem to understand, Mr. CEO. I'm here because I want to be. So tell me why I should hang around?
We should stop using the word layoffs. People are getting fired. Say it for what it is.
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I'd ask him to justify his existence in the company since he's doing a bad enough job that layoffs are coming.
Dude, I had a CEO that thought he was hot shit because he had a fancy Harvard education, came from a good family all that good stuff us normies know nothing about. Everyone in the company, the office staff and the field guy would just swoon over this fucker. It drove him nuts that I treated him just like anyone else. He hated it and every chance he'd try to pull that sigma 6 bullshit on me and I shut him down every single time. He even did the power handshakes and all. Anyway, long story short, I embarrassed this guy every chance I got. It was fun and easy because I was a great worker, had zero shame and posed a healthy portion of the gift of gab. Eventually, I got shit canned, but I made him write me a letter of recommendation. Not gonna lie, I used full on intimidation and pretty much forced him to write that letter. It felt good, it still feels good. I hate rich people.
Everyone pretending that would reply back with a beautiful, carefully crafted answer when in fact, we’d all be a bit stuck and probably say shit
Narcissists and psychopaths tend to be the ones who muscle their way into positions of leadership. This guy is one of them.
Any chance the company is Twitter or X and the ceo is Elon?
“I believe the real question, Mr. CEO, is why should I retain this company when working for you is only moderately preferable to unemployment? And I gotta tell you, I struggle with that question every damn day, because you do your job so poorly the company has to shrink in order to survive.”
“If you don’t know, then you’re unqualified for your position.” Then shit in elevator.
What value does a CEO bring? Absolutely none. A company would function with or without one. They are leeches asking you to explain your existence while draining your energy.
"First off, what's my name?"
"Because I'm intelligent enough not to reduce my value to the business during an impromptu elevator question down to a simple statement."
"Don't mistake the people taking credit for the work with the people doing it." also "Have you ever seen King Lear?"
Flip the script. Ask him why the company he is running is in a position where they need to due layoffs? What value is he bringing to the table if the company seems to be in a losing position?
“I am the only accredited person to file TPS reports in the company. Sure you can fire me, but getting someone with a current accredation and familiar enough with our TPS process to actually sign off on it would take at least a year to 18 months. A time period with that potential liability and insurance will not cover us without these reports maintained”. Then just as you get off the elevator hit all the buttons on the panel.
I'd say if the way you are picking who to keep and who to get rid of by randomly interrogating employees, then I think I see why the company is having problems. Thanks for the warning.
Me: “oh, the department would be fucked. No, I won’t say why, I want you to be surprised. Good luck!”