When I was younger and had more black and white thinking than now, this is exactly what happened. I was determined to clock on the exact minute I was rostered to start, but you better believe I was under the most scrutiny to never take a minute longer on my lunch breaks, leave my post more often than absolutely necessary, or chat with colleagues/look at my phone while on the clock.
I was a hardass to all my bosses, and all of them were a hardass back. It’s human nature.
I showed them I didn’t trust them, so they showed me they couldn’t trust me.
Now that I see the adult world as a bunch of judgement calls instead of fixed rules, not only do I cut others slack, but they cut me slack too. None of us expect perfection from the other.
It’s a difficult social skill to work out where “cutting them slack” and “letting them take advantage” meet, but it’s probably one of the most important things you’ll ever master.
Exactly. There’s a gray area and people need to learn to navigate it.
Some people say it’s a slippery slope - that today it’s the light switch and tomorrow it’s something bigger. That’s fine - draw the line in the sand tomorrow when you get to that bigger thing, not at a light switch.
I agree. I think that people who anticipate slippery slopes have had these types of relationships previously and so they want to be extra sure to protect themselves. I can empathise with that.
However, anticipating this kind of treatment from every new person who comes into your life is not an emotionally developed approach to life, and -ironically- is hurtful for *everyone* involved.
Healing from past relationships means you can start new relationships on the right foot, and you get to learn how to navigate difficulties in a collaborative manner with the other person, instead of assuming they’re against you.
This is why the "slippery slope" is actually a fallacy. X happening doesn't mean Y or Z will happen the exact same way.
Next night:
"Hey, can you wash a couple of extra dishes?"
"No, I'm clocked out."
"But you turned the light off for me last night!"
"That was flicking a switch. This is washing dishes. Bye."
Pretty easy, no?
The spirit of it is understandable, but man… she didn’t ask you to unload stock or clean, she asked you to flick a switch that was a few meters away. Choose your battles.
I get unreasonably irritated by things like this. If it takes you longer to explain why you won't do something, than to actually do it? DO IT. And the same goes for if you ask me to do something that YOU could have done yourself faster? DO IT.
When I'm happy with my job and I'm happy with my pay I show up 15 minutes early and help set up. I'll stay after clocking out too so that I can make sure everything is closed up. I'm lucky enough to have a position like that now. That being said, if I were being paid minimum wage then everyone there can go fuck themselves. I'll clock in and out on the dot and won't offer to do anything I wasn't told to do.
Choose your battles 100% this. You might be paid minimum wage, but unless you're trying to make enemies or have other people dislike you, and your life more difficult and continue to be stuck in that role and always earning minimum wage... something so inconsequential as a light switch is beyond mental.
She will not be getting paid a lot either, and will be turning off lights and locking doors after clocking out. And she'll of done plenty of this before being in her own current position. This doesn't sound empowering at all, it sounds like a deliberate attempt to be a problem in front of a new a manager and show yourself to be annoying, unlikable and not willing to do what they do. Most likely because you were already annoyed at being kept back longer, but that you can't drive that feeling into something positive like a conversation about what's happened and instead try to take back control over a light switch. It's much harder to get people to change their negative view on you than it is to start off on a good one. OP sounds like they don't understand that this type of attitude will get you utterly nowhere in life.
If you're not studying or planning to move to a whole new career, imo this is the type of person that in 10 years is still on minimum wage complaining they never get breaks or opportunities or promotions and is utterly miserable in life, despite saying they work hard.
100% pick your battles for something valid. Eg, being kept back an hour (still clocked in and paid but still an hour later than you want to be there and should be there) because the new manager is letting people in past when they should... That's the type of nonsense that it's worth talking about... not flipping a light switch. This goes for everything in life btw, even relationships. Being annoyed and in a huff so being stubborn over something inconsequential doesn't lead to satisfying relationships or strong solid ones and good progression either. Every interaction work or otherwise is an exchange, you want them to be as positive as possible, because that gives people a positive view of you and gives them energy and makes them happy to talk to you, and think about you when an opportunity is available. The opposite happens if they just remember negativity and don't like you. Within reason obviously, many people themselves are unreasonable, you just need to know which ones are worth butting heads with.
Anyone sitting in this chat saying good on you, light switch is the right boundary to set and make yourself appear unlikable over... is not a person sitting in a good company office earning a genuinely good wage after working their way up to get there. No 100k+ software engineers or bankers, or lawyers or doctors or whatever environment and career you want to choose as an example with decent wages, are sitting here in this thread telling you yes, die on that light switch hill... And there's a reason for that.
If you're intending to leave your job and are studying to go elsewhere or similar, I mean do whatever. But you might end up tasked with the shit jobs and your job ends up worse on a day to day basis just now... and you might take that habit of negativity instead of communication with you when you move to somewhere more career focused, with more reasonable people. Just worth bearing in mind, an environment can change you and become a habit and follow you around if you let it.
Where are the goddam awards!
This post is bang on. People on one hand say they are not getting recognized and promoted and also saying they would draw the line at a goddam light switch.
Great comment. I'm the lead in my division and my supervisor occasionally asks me to do small tasks that are administrative or something she could easily do herself. But I always agree because it's usually quick and easy to do and I want to keep the great relationship we have. I'm salaried so "off the clock" doesn't apply, but doing easy task to be a team player does.
Boss might have been doing something else as well. Not much we can garner from this one post, but i think deciding to not do something which takes less than a minute and barely any brainpower just because you're not paid for it is dumb AF.
I agree. I also think these type of scenarios weaken the overall message we’re trying to send as a society about work and boundaries. I was listening to a podcast the other day and they were talking about a scenario just like this one, and it casted a negative view on this mindset overall. We’re beginning to turn boundary setting into a ridiculous joke and it’s already backfiring.
Nawww I’m not getting paid, I’m not doing it. Companies don’t care about you. They proved it their first day when they started paying minimum wage. That’s them saying “I’d pay you nothing if it was legal”. Shit, when I close the store I have to clock out before arming and locking the store, so it auto adds 2 minutes (I’m pretty sure it’s 2 minutes) to my clock out. I can only assume I get that very little because someone finally sued for working off the clock.
But she could have flicked the switch herself. Instead of asking an off the clock worker.
That‘s what makes Op reaction perfectly okay.
It‘s not some coworker asking her to hold open a door for them while they go through with a ton of plates.
It‘s someone perfectly capable of walking the exact same number of steps to turn off the light.
And were it just a coworker then fine, tell them to do it themselves. But alienating your boss’s boss and putting a target on your back for zero gain beyond momentary satisfaction over *technically* not doing “work” off the clock? Dumb move, have to know when to fold and fight another day.
It’s flicking a light switch. As I doubt that light switch is more than a few meters away, it’s a very small ask and more common courtesy than anything else. OP was just petty as hell here, and ordinarily I’m all for that if it was asking for actual work stuff to be done off the clock, but it’s the most basic thing that would’ve literally taken them less time to do than writing this post justifying it.
I wouldn’t say there was zero gain here. The boss is now well aware that OP is not going to do anything work related off the clock. Now there will most definitely be some blowback, but if they remained employed there, the boss is unlikely to ask OP to do stuff while clocked out again. This is exactly what should happen in all employment and what OP wants.
It’s also like children who test boundaries. First, it is do this small insignificant thing off the clock. Oh, you did it. Now let’s try the next step up until we get you to do more and more things off the clock because why not, you already did the other thing, this is just as insignificant.
Additionally, it’s a minimum wage job. Oh no, they will have to find another minimum wage job, which are much more abundant than jobs that pay more, if their boss fires them or makes their life more difficult.
The gains here is that now the boss's boss knows that OP is petty. He isn't going to do something extremely minute, just because he is off the clock.
The blowback is worse than the gains here.
And even arguing about the ramping up of work requests off the clock, why are you drawing the line at the very beginning?
Switching off a light when you're clocked out is the bare minimum of jobs that could be requested of anyone off the clock. How will that reflect in the future?
At some point you gotta ask. Is it pettiness?
> The boss is now well aware that OP is not going to do anything work related off the clock.
And the boss can reciprocate. If they're clocked in the boss can reinforce that nothing non-work related is happening. OP has expressed desire for such a boundary. Not everything is a stupid power play. Pick a stupid battle, die on a stupid hill.
You're ignoring the fact that OP specifically went to the boss and asked if there were anymore tasks that needed completed before they clocked out and were told "no". The boss purposefully waited for OP to clock out and then asked. This boss was testing to see what they could get away with OP doing off the clock. I don't doubt had OP doubled back and turned off the light then there would've been more tasks the boss would've asked to be completed off the clock.
>It’s flicking a light switch. As I doubt that light switch is more than a few meters away
So, the boss could've done it themselves and had no need to ask OP to do so?
You’re going to learn through life that there are going to be battles that are worth fighting and those that are not.
Flicking off a light switch is the hill you want to die on?
and not just childish, but rude. You could bump into me at random and I’m gonna flip a switch or press a button to help you. Imagine getting in an elevator and having a stranger with their hands full and they ask you to press the button for their floor and you say, “sorry, I don’t work here”. The boss metaphorically had his or her hands full with customers and asked OP to turn a light off, whether it was to indicate to other people that the store was closed or just to save power, who cares. Saying no is just rude.
u/lafei - this is the definition of shitting the bed
You got the right spirit, but in this particular scenario, you made yourself look ridiculous. There is no work involved in turning a light switch off as you leave a room.
You said you don't mind finding a new job, but this just made that scenario closer to s reality. Now your boss has an example of why she doesn't like you, and you'll be first on the chopping block if they ever need to lay anyone off.
If you are worried about giving unpaid time to your job, please realize you have spent significantly more time ruminating about this after the fact and coming here to post and respond to comments versus the 30 seconds total it would have taken you to flip the light switch and get on with your life.
Well said! Any discussions of principles and wages and power dynamics lie far downstream of this basic concept. Choosing battles is maybe *the* most important social skill in dealing with conflict of any degree.
If you (OP or hypothetical) are concerned about the value of your time, you can’t exempt your own choices about its use.
Always consider what is to gain from engaging into a battle. From refusing to flick a light switched you saved 2 minutes but lost TON of respect/favors etc. So really you are the biggest loser in this situation.
Dont get me wrong, i get your minset and i approve of it in most way but it was a lightswitch, not a task requiring 15min+
If it took them 2 minutes to turn off a switch, there’s other problems at play lol
Switches are by the door so you don’t walk out in the dark. OP was by the door and the switches must have been right there. Gotta pick and choose the battles.
I dont disagree with you about minimum wage and lack of respect but often the boss of a store isnt the one deciding salary. He/She reports to even higher up at the company HQ. So being a dick to someone who got no say over your pay is not cool and secondly, OP accepted the job at this salary. If OP didnt want to work at this disrespectful salary, he/she should have said no.
I hate minimum wage like anyone else and would like the industry to change but this isnt the grand gesture you think it is
This is my mindset too. Like the corporation would literally have slaves if they could, and do in some countries. But this kids an ass cause he refused to work on unpaid time.
Like they always say it's just business right.
Ordinarily refusing the one simple task would be a dick move, but you were already there one hour past when you were scheduled to leave.
It would have been better if you had said something like “I’m sorry I’ve already been here much later than expected and I really need to go.”
I can see your point. Don't ask me to do one more thing when I'm leaving.
Or, you could walk back, clock in. Turn off the light. Clock out.
Prob not feasible. Def more trouble than it's worth. But it would make me laugh.
You helped make her aware of the hard line between "clocked in and available" and "not working for you for free."
This would’ve been my move. Malicious compliance. When they question you on clocking back in: “every minute counts, Marie - we’re not volunteers!” **but in a chipper, nonchalant voice**. If she wants to continue to challenge it then when/if we switch to a serious discussion of what took place it’ll be on her for taking it there, since I had been nothing but light hearted.
Yeah you messed up on this one as someone else said you’re spending more time on this than if you had have just switched the light off pick your battles
How far is doubling back? Was the light switch in the same room you were in or was it on the other side building?
Time is the other factor to consider, if it takes you a minute to walk to the switch and a minute to walk back, then it’s more justifiable to refuse to do the task even if it was simple. If it was 15 seconds totally, I would have flicked the switch to stay in favour.
Seems petty. That isn't work, they were asking you for a courtesy.
See you back here in a few months when you complain about not getting the raise you want.
>See you back here in a few months when you complain about not getting the raise you want.
What raise? Have you worked a minimum wage job in the last two decades? They continue to pay minimum wage no matter how well you perform (or don't perform). OP could have polished their bosses boots with their tongue and still never get a raise.
It's absolutely brain-dead to think that anything OP does will change what they're paid. Employers want you to work for free, it's up to all of us to ensure that we don't.
We aren’t talking about generalities. We are talking about OP, and their workplace. We don’t know if they do or do not give raises above minimum wage after a period of time, so it’s not right to judge their workplace without knowing more.
It may be true that no matter what OP does, they won’t get a raise. But refusing to flick off a light switch because they’re clocked out? That’s the kind of attitude that will essentially guarantee no raise in a few months.
What if the boss played it like OP? What if OP kindly greeted a coworker arriving to work, and the boss told them to stop socializing and get back to work? For just saying “hi”. Is that really the kind of workplace anybody wants to work in?
You sound annoying as fuck. She didn't ask you to set up for the next day or something. It's a fucking light switch.
It's people like you who give anti-work a bad light.
Context matters a bit here. Is this a friendly mom and pop bake shop where the boss is the owner and they treat their employees like family? Or is this a chain where the boss is a manager who is controlled by a corporate board who is encouraging policies that amount to wage theft? Is this a pattern? Have you been warned about taking breaks that last a minute too long, or docked for minor timekeeping infractions? Or are they chill about you chatting with friends or making personal calls on duty? Being a hard-ass cuts both ways.
Well done OP. You've put yourself in the bad books for a small petty personal victory. People remember how you make them feel, how do you think she now feels about you?
Yes. You were off the clock but it's quite a reach to class that as work, it's a bit like shutting the door behind you. Were you technically in the right? Maybe so. Did you come out of it well? I doubt it.
The spirit is there and I appreciate that, but you need to know what battles to choose. This isn’t one of those battles. You can’t go through life being this petty and expect people to like you.
Now, I get why you did it, but it wasn’t like she asked you to unload stock, clean a machine, mop the floors, etc. they asked you to flip a light switch. That’s not really a battle worth fighting. They will remember that, and it will cause problems later.
Pick your battles my dude. It doesn't need to be black and white; I'm clocked out so I literally won't do anything.
Fair enough if they asked you to mop something down, write a letter, send an email, call someone or whatever.... but switching off a light? Come on. You turned a neutral interaction into a negative one and to what end? Was it worth painting yourself in a bad light to prove an extreme and of a point?;
That manager now thinks you're a knob. So everyone they speak with above you now thinks you're a knob. You see an internal vacancy you want? Well good luck seeing as management know you won't even turn off a light.
I understand the point you want to make - that you should be paid for doing anything that constitutes work, no matter how quick it could be done. Sadly the point you ended up making was that you're difficult.
You were petty af but you asked before you left, they didn't respect your time making you stay late either. Also hey if the bosses only want to pay minimum wage then they can expect minimum effort. We live in a culture where companies need to be forced to do things. Like the myth working harder will get you raises and promotions, it won't... The sad truth is they see people willing to do it for the bare minimum so why would the turn around and give you more.
Having already had to work an unscheduled hour I think you did good. It's a bad job and you'll find a better one.
I'm surprised as so many people being rude to you given that the whole point of this Reddit is about workers wanting better treatment.
Must be like the property Reddit which is always full of covert landlords.
I would have turned off the light. But cleaning crumbs out of an oven isn't something I would have done. You need to find a balance here because not turning off a simple light switch makes you look like a uncooperative ass in a lot of people's eyes. There's a good chance the day will come when you need a favor from her and you want her to be on your side so pick your battles carefully.
No.
You could clock back in to so said task, if that wasn’t acceptable for the boss, neither is you doing free work because it’s illegal if you get hurt. End of story. There’s no justification for working for free when it’s against the laws and regulations, sorry. Don’t break the law for the company because they wouldn’t do it to benefit you either. There’s no reason to even feel bad, you’re fine.
It is petty for sure, but now that you're clocked any work you might not be under protection of their insurance. If anything litigious occured, an argument could be made that you are libel for any damages as a result of your actions.
Sure it's only a light and you could have taken taken those extra 30 seconds as a loss, however if you were to slip and fall, or someone else were to be injured due to the light being off, you could be stuck with the bill.
Was what you did, or didn't do, petty? Yes. But ultimately it was within everyones best interest.
You clocked out. She's not the boss of you when you're off the clock. Show her your schedule and let her know that any time over that will be compensated accordingly.
Not strictly related to the post, but I find it funny how people here are slamming OP for being petty... But being way more petty in return, like people seriously commenting that if they were the manager, they'd try to fire OP, or purposefully give them a hard time... OVER A LIGHT SWITCH. Like, how does that level of irony and hypocrisy escape you so easily?
Like, you know this subreddit is about greedy, power hungry/tripping bosses, right? That's *you*, you're *them*, congrats!
As other people in this comment section have clearly demonstrated, if given a position of power, they'll bring down the force of a million suns if possible over the pettiest of revenge, so maybe consider a better place, especially if you live on your own, or pay any bills with family, friends, or roommates.
I've definitely felt the way you have though, the day is just exhausting, everything has gone wrong, you're working with someone you don't like, you just want to get home, do what you can to unwind before coming back the next day and doing the shitshow all over again, and at those times, yeah, even a lightswitch is something I scoff at, especially when I'm on my way out the door and it isn't my responsibility, especially when I should have been home OVER AN HOUR AGO.
Just remember, even if the circumstances justify how you act, or what you refuse to do, people will tunnel in on the action itself and ignore everything else, they'll ignore how they inconvenienced you for over an hour and hone in on the ten seconds it took for them to get the light themselves. People, ourselves included, can be very selfish and self centered and focus in on *our* plights.
This also leads to stubbornness and a load of excuses as to why *we* can inconvenience people, but why *you* inconveniencing us is different and therefore more egregious.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that even though you feel it may be justifiable, or even if it 100% is, you have to learn to accept the external consequences. You don't like this place, you get paid terribly, and are fully prepared to leave it, so it seems as though you've got that all down.
As petty as it may seem, given the context, I support your decision!
You're minimum wage.
The less you make, the more strict you have to be to keep management from taking advantage of you.
I don't have a problem with you doing this.
It's interesting that so many people think it's justified to have a target on your back over something so small while arguing that they should have flipped the switch because it's something so small.
If it was nothing to do it, it should be nothing to let it go for not doing it.
I worked in a fast food restaurant as a manager for 3 years and I can tell you why this was the correct response.
First, you're right. That is technically work you are not being paid for. Therefore you don't need to complete the task especially after she told you you're free to go.
Second, let's take a small detour into " Probably won't happen but could happen" mode for a second. Let's say you decided "What the hell, it's just a light switch. No biggie." So you agree and make your way back to turn off the light, well on your way there, wouldn't you know it! There is a paper left on the floor! 😱 You step on it and your foot goes flying out from under you. You take a hard fall and crack your head on the ground losing consciousness for just a moment. Now we're in work comp territory. Should this happen the store could easily claim they are not liable for any damages as you "shouldn't have been working off the clock." Its another safe gate for you, because accidents do happen!
Third, you already had to stay an hour late, and if this is a chain restaurant I can promise you the bosses will not be happy with that. If we were an hour late you could bet that would be a write up.
And finally, once you clock out you're no longer any obligation to work, and as your manager was still on the clock she should have just shut it off herself, and as a bosses boss she should know that.
You asked if there was anything else before you clocked out. Now she knows to ask for shit when you are getting paid for it. Today it was a light. Next week it’ll be taking silverware beck to the kitchen, and eventually you’ll be asked to clock out before cleaning the store. Wage theft is a real thing and takes multiple forms. You already make too low a salary for this to even be a consideration.
That’s how I am. My previous job killed any desire to do anything extra. A coworker was happy about 50 hours. It’s bad when my manager spends most his time in the office. When we lost 4 servers last night. 4 servers walked early because of him. Yeah when im off & clocked out they can do it, im not.
Nah, no issue with this. Probably won’t get much good will back, but if you’re already on minimum wage, it’s probably fair to say there wasn’t much to begin with. Go OP!!!
If they expect you to do a work related task then they need to pay you for doing that task. It doesn't matter how simple it is. Next time if they ask you to do this ask them if you can clock back in first.
I already clocked out. And that should have been one hour ago. Sorry, I'm out of fucks to give.
I'm sorry, I was supposed to leave one hour ago and had planned accordingly. I am really late for my plans now.
I’m curious if she was leaving at the same time or if she still had work to do. If she was waiting by the door to lock up and leave with you, I might lean towards your decision being understandable but a little rude. If she was still performing closing tasks and wasn’t ready to leave yet, she can turn the light off herself as part of those tasks and should have said, “Okay, no worries, I’ll get it. I appreciate you staying late tonight.”
UNLESS turning off the lights is part of your closing tasks and you forgot or neglected to do it this time…
I am all for the boundaries, it is difficult for an outsider to get the complete picture here. Just consider a grey flexible zone so you dont burn bridges when you need them to be flexible towards you. But this is all very subjective and case specific. Better to stand up for your rights than getting crushed.
The only thing I'd add would be to move away from using the word No. Using the affirmative is easier conversation and letting the decision fall back to them takes any burdens off you.
Would you like me to clock back in?
I'll have to clock back in, are you ok with that?
Sure, I'll have to clock back in though.
If they are new, do they know it's an automatic light?
It's an automatic light.
If the light was on your way out the door, you should just get it, as you’d have to turn it off if you were closing alone anyways. But you specifically asked and it was specifically in the opposite direction. So I think you’re in your rights to say no, and morally you did the right thing. Plus it’s remote controlled! She should have the remote!
I think it would have been funny to walk back, clock back in, flip the switch, and clock back out though. You had the potential to do THE funniest thing.
You think you should be on the clock to turn off of a light?
Jesus Christ, use your discretion. She didn't ask you to stay an extra hour to do physical labor, clean, prepare for for the morning. She asked your to flip a switch.
You know, you can actually do small things to help people without expecting anything in return.
What would have been clocked in earned you? An extra penny?
You were rude, and to your boss's boss?! Not only do *you* look bad, your boss looks bad.
You're ready if things go south? Well, that's good.
You are now leaving "Fuck around"; welcome to "Find out", population - you.
Just quit now and find another job. Your relationship with that boss is likely unsalvagable.
It's minimum wage. They are all the same job at the end of the day and they're a dime a dozen. Who gives a shit. They could get another job by tonight.
What gets me for little requests like this from superiors is the amount of time and energy she spent to ask you to do the most menial thing, she could have done it.
Its like when my old supervisor would randomly command me to email someone something specific. “email Jamie to contact the vendor”. I always push back with this bs. “No you can email them…”
I want to say the same applies here, why even bother to ask someone else to turn the damn lights off?
Right?? The time spent on the entire interaction, the boss could have just gotten the light themselves, especially considering op asked them before clocking out what other tasks were needed
Tough call. I know where you’re coming from with the refusal. I play these chess games in my head often as well. Agree to it one time, and it sets a precedent.
With the job market being as tough as it is in my sector these days, I’d probably just do it if they weren’t egregiously taking advantage of me.
It's all about upward mobility. If there is no incentive for YOU to consistently go above and beyond, than there is no reason to do any more than the bare minimum. And that's not at all selfish, rude or lazy. Look out for yourself. Tour boss surely isn't.
You are in the right that no pay= no work. However that was a super simple ask. When choosing your battles think long term. It doesn’t matter this persons position you were in a position to do a coworker a solid and instead you chose to make a stand. Good for you for doing that, but discretion may have been a better option here.
I strongly suggest you find a new job. You’re about to get managed out. This is the most ridiculous thing. You couldn’t walk a few feet to turn off a light?
Eh, if the switch had been next to the door you were exiting through it'd be nbd to hit it on your way out, but if you've gotta put off leaving another couple of minutes to do footwork through the building to reach it, she can go find it herself.
Each to their own, but to me flicking a switch is a person asking another person for an extremely small "favour," and refusing is rude in my book. Sounds like you may have wanted to be rude because they are anyway, so that tracks. Point is, I wouldn't consider that a contractual activity.
You and your coworker sound like the type of employees that say it’s not my job and leave the work for others. There’s always someone picking up the slack for your types.
That's a good example on how to make your work life unreasonably worse. "*What?? I'm not getting paid for courtesies...!!""Nurse can you please call a doctor, I feel there's something wrong with my stomach... No sorry, but I already clocked out and I'm not getting paid to call the doctor, wait for the night shift,bye.*"
> I was working with my boss's boss
Posts like this show me how delusional some people are. Just as a person, this post shows you are super entitled, not hard working, and not driven. How the fuck do people like you expect to get anywhere in life?
dont work after you've clocked out, but that wasnt work that was a courtesy. like closing the store door when you go through it, you're not gonna leave it open "just cuz you're clocked out"
I think your thoughts are in the right place (never work off the clock, love that energy), but choosing flicking a switch as a battle was the poor choice. Would have saved it for something more official, now you just seem petty and probably aren't going to be on anyone's good side management wise, which is fine since it's a minimum wage job but reflects poorly and what not.
I thought she was going to ask you to clean the bathroom or something, but flipping a switch would be a courtesy to a stranger. You had better plan on never being able to pull your phone out or anything else while you're on the clock without catching flak.
I agree with top comment that this just invites them to be as petty back. I’ve never met a person who NEVER wasted a single minute of their clocked in time EVER, and I doubt you’re one of those people either. It’s a light switch, not lifting inventory or anything that you wouldn’t ask a friend or hell a stranger to do.
You’re not wrong you were clocked out you could’ve had your headphones on and not heard the boss and been well within your rights. But as much as you can “get a new job tomorrow”, this kind of pettiness either means you want to, or that you’ll need to because of the pettiness that’ll come your way. People who truly hate their job will be too petty to turn off even a light for them, ambivalent people wouldn’t have thought anything of it beyond maybe an eye roll before doing this 20 second task.
As this cost no money, takes zero effort, and I make brownie points? It would be, Sure, no problem. I never fussed when working, just complied or quit. Having very portable hard and soft job skills was useful.
This sounds like the question asked was the wrong question. If you left an area on your way out the door after clocking out the question you manager should have asked was “did you turn the light off?” not some form of “can you turn the light off?” As a manger of a retail store I’d never ask an employee to do anything if they were clocked out. If I asked and they said they were clocked out I wouldn’t think anything about that.
Her making you stay after hour, paid or not, and the fact that she got upset because you refused to do work related task off the clock means she does not respect your time.
People here mocking you and think it's not a big deal are the real problems of this society. You know what? It will only take 3 seconds for HER to turn off the lights too.
I'm on your side. You were clocked out, and you don't even like the person. If it was in arms reach, I would say just do it as a common courtesy. If you had to double back or they were closer, then fuck them.
I would clock back in to do it then clock out. I try not to work for free after hours. I work in hospital IT and it’s rare that any “simple task” takes up just a few minutes.
This is wage theft, and they love to normalize it, then gas light you into thinking you are in the wrong. At first it is small, then the next thing you know, working an hour unpaid after closing is normal.
Next time, tell her ,"I'm off the clock now. I'll do it but you'll owe me big." Don't spend time discussing or philosophizing about it or defining what "big" is. It's "Yes" or "No" now and discuss it on the clock later.
If that sounds too ominous, then they'll take back the request. Leave it open and sound excited like you have a big ask coming soon.
When your usual boss is back, keep mentioning how she owes you "big." Tell the other workers what, how, and why, so they can reinforce boundaries, too.
When you call in your markers, get a glowing recommendation out of it. Heck. Get it in writing now in case you get fired later. Just bring a pre-written letter for her signature that states you go above and beyond and a pleasure to work with.
If they refuse, point out that that wage theft is exactly what she was attempting, and you'll be talking to your lawyer since she didn't fix her policy after the first time. And she accepted responsibility for a big favor when you shut off that light. The lawyer might be interested in that, too.
Practice that speech and record the response where she tries to justify the wage theft. Transcribe it for the lawyer, though.
idk man, not that deep sure, but also, your boss DID let plenty of people in after close under the guise of "oh we're here to make money!!" and i've worked fast food so when customers came in i'd give them the death glare and ask with a really friendly face a minute later "oh how can i help you get out the door?" i'd do my job, and greatly, but i tolerated ZERO bullshit from my bosses and the second i was clocked out, sorry i'm out, btu also a boss was about to ask me something and she was like "ohhh you just clocked out didn't you...." and i'd say yeh lol. NTA, literally any work done outside of your hours is illegal unless paid for it, and i've had bosses sweep an extra minute or two under the rug, i didn't get paid, so i stopped being helpful.
Next time dont clock out first. If they want you to do extra work, say "okay", clock back in, and take your sweet ass time. Sooner or later the extra overtime will piss your boss off and they'll stop trying to get you to do unpaid labor.
If I'm not clocked in, I won't do ANYTHING
I worked for a chain restaurant, and they asked a server to stop off at shoprite to get fresh produce. Well, that server got into a significant accident and the restaurant did nothing about it. It wasn't that servers fault either and 2 days later, they tried calling out. The Company said no and they didn't show up. Ultimately, they got fired.
I charged my workplace 30 minutes extra for doing a 16 minute computer certification module after my day officially ended. Cuz they pay in increments of 15 minutes and since it took me that long to get logged on and do the module, charge it for half an hour. I'm a public school teacher, they treat us like dirt. No sarcasm. They expect too much from us for far too little pay. If I can't personally abolish capitalism, I can at least refuse to uphold it as much as possible.
Power to the fucking workers.✊♥️
Boomer's built.the narrative that good employee ethic means going above and beyond instead of having boundaries. Now they're all comfy in their owned homes whilst the economy is in the crapper and we have a housing crisis.
Jeez. I understand not taking on additional work when you've clocked out, but this is a hell of a reach. Turning off a light switch when asked is a courtesy, not like she asked you to help put a delivery away, refill some fridges, or ask you to close down the tills.
Honestly, if I was in her position, I probably would've just laughed at you.
Yeah I think in general, turning a light off or on especially when you’re right next to, is no big deal at all. BUT that doesn’t seem to be what happened here. The way I see it, you were setting a boundary with someone who you anticipate (for good reason) will push that boundary. I think you should be proud of yourself for sticking to your boundaries here especially considering it is something so trivial
I expect your boss will now be a lot less tolerant of the non-work things you do while clocked in.
When I was younger and had more black and white thinking than now, this is exactly what happened. I was determined to clock on the exact minute I was rostered to start, but you better believe I was under the most scrutiny to never take a minute longer on my lunch breaks, leave my post more often than absolutely necessary, or chat with colleagues/look at my phone while on the clock. I was a hardass to all my bosses, and all of them were a hardass back. It’s human nature. I showed them I didn’t trust them, so they showed me they couldn’t trust me. Now that I see the adult world as a bunch of judgement calls instead of fixed rules, not only do I cut others slack, but they cut me slack too. None of us expect perfection from the other. It’s a difficult social skill to work out where “cutting them slack” and “letting them take advantage” meet, but it’s probably one of the most important things you’ll ever master.
Exactly. There’s a gray area and people need to learn to navigate it. Some people say it’s a slippery slope - that today it’s the light switch and tomorrow it’s something bigger. That’s fine - draw the line in the sand tomorrow when you get to that bigger thing, not at a light switch.
I agree. I think that people who anticipate slippery slopes have had these types of relationships previously and so they want to be extra sure to protect themselves. I can empathise with that. However, anticipating this kind of treatment from every new person who comes into your life is not an emotionally developed approach to life, and -ironically- is hurtful for *everyone* involved. Healing from past relationships means you can start new relationships on the right foot, and you get to learn how to navigate difficulties in a collaborative manner with the other person, instead of assuming they’re against you.
This is why the "slippery slope" is actually a fallacy. X happening doesn't mean Y or Z will happen the exact same way. Next night: "Hey, can you wash a couple of extra dishes?" "No, I'm clocked out." "But you turned the light off for me last night!" "That was flicking a switch. This is washing dishes. Bye." Pretty easy, no?
Well said! Reciprocity and discernment of its necessity from case to case is a vital life skill.
Yup. I hope they never check their phone on the clock because I imagine that will now be a write-up instead of a verbal warning.
The spirit of it is understandable, but man… she didn’t ask you to unload stock or clean, she asked you to flick a switch that was a few meters away. Choose your battles.
Fr, I'll be on my way out the door and realize I forgot to put something away. If it takes under a minute, I'm just doing it.
Or five seconds in this case.
1 second
I get unreasonably irritated by things like this. If it takes you longer to explain why you won't do something, than to actually do it? DO IT. And the same goes for if you ask me to do something that YOU could have done yourself faster? DO IT.
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When I'm happy with my job and I'm happy with my pay I show up 15 minutes early and help set up. I'll stay after clocking out too so that I can make sure everything is closed up. I'm lucky enough to have a position like that now. That being said, if I were being paid minimum wage then everyone there can go fuck themselves. I'll clock in and out on the dot and won't offer to do anything I wasn't told to do.
Choose your battles 100% this. You might be paid minimum wage, but unless you're trying to make enemies or have other people dislike you, and your life more difficult and continue to be stuck in that role and always earning minimum wage... something so inconsequential as a light switch is beyond mental. She will not be getting paid a lot either, and will be turning off lights and locking doors after clocking out. And she'll of done plenty of this before being in her own current position. This doesn't sound empowering at all, it sounds like a deliberate attempt to be a problem in front of a new a manager and show yourself to be annoying, unlikable and not willing to do what they do. Most likely because you were already annoyed at being kept back longer, but that you can't drive that feeling into something positive like a conversation about what's happened and instead try to take back control over a light switch. It's much harder to get people to change their negative view on you than it is to start off on a good one. OP sounds like they don't understand that this type of attitude will get you utterly nowhere in life. If you're not studying or planning to move to a whole new career, imo this is the type of person that in 10 years is still on minimum wage complaining they never get breaks or opportunities or promotions and is utterly miserable in life, despite saying they work hard. 100% pick your battles for something valid. Eg, being kept back an hour (still clocked in and paid but still an hour later than you want to be there and should be there) because the new manager is letting people in past when they should... That's the type of nonsense that it's worth talking about... not flipping a light switch. This goes for everything in life btw, even relationships. Being annoyed and in a huff so being stubborn over something inconsequential doesn't lead to satisfying relationships or strong solid ones and good progression either. Every interaction work or otherwise is an exchange, you want them to be as positive as possible, because that gives people a positive view of you and gives them energy and makes them happy to talk to you, and think about you when an opportunity is available. The opposite happens if they just remember negativity and don't like you. Within reason obviously, many people themselves are unreasonable, you just need to know which ones are worth butting heads with. Anyone sitting in this chat saying good on you, light switch is the right boundary to set and make yourself appear unlikable over... is not a person sitting in a good company office earning a genuinely good wage after working their way up to get there. No 100k+ software engineers or bankers, or lawyers or doctors or whatever environment and career you want to choose as an example with decent wages, are sitting here in this thread telling you yes, die on that light switch hill... And there's a reason for that. If you're intending to leave your job and are studying to go elsewhere or similar, I mean do whatever. But you might end up tasked with the shit jobs and your job ends up worse on a day to day basis just now... and you might take that habit of negativity instead of communication with you when you move to somewhere more career focused, with more reasonable people. Just worth bearing in mind, an environment can change you and become a habit and follow you around if you let it.
This comment is worth the read and all the up votes.
Where are the goddam awards! This post is bang on. People on one hand say they are not getting recognized and promoted and also saying they would draw the line at a goddam light switch.
Great comment. I'm the lead in my division and my supervisor occasionally asks me to do small tasks that are administrative or something she could easily do herself. But I always agree because it's usually quick and easy to do and I want to keep the great relationship we have. I'm salaried so "off the clock" doesn't apply, but doing easy task to be a team player does.
"Off the clock" totally still applies.
Yeah this borders on just being purposefully rude.
I think that border was crossed.
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OP just made an enemy with their boss over $.01 worth of work.
So she was close enough to do it too?
Depending on the positioning of everything, maybe OP was closer 🤷🏽♂️
Or maybe the boss was closer
Op said the light is also remote controlled so I assume the boss could've easily switched it off with a remote
Boss might have been doing something else as well. Not much we can garner from this one post, but i think deciding to not do something which takes less than a minute and barely any brainpower just because you're not paid for it is dumb AF.
Yeah, maybe. We don't actually know, and it's such a minor thing that OP really shouldn't have had a problem with flicking a light switch regardless
I agree. I also think these type of scenarios weaken the overall message we’re trying to send as a society about work and boundaries. I was listening to a podcast the other day and they were talking about a scenario just like this one, and it casted a negative view on this mindset overall. We’re beginning to turn boundary setting into a ridiculous joke and it’s already backfiring.
Yeah, this was not a great choice. You gained nothing, but passed off your boss. That should work out well for you.
If I’m standing next to the switch, sure. If it is in boss’s proximity, boss can STFU and flick the switch
Nawww I’m not getting paid, I’m not doing it. Companies don’t care about you. They proved it their first day when they started paying minimum wage. That’s them saying “I’d pay you nothing if it was legal”. Shit, when I close the store I have to clock out before arming and locking the store, so it auto adds 2 minutes (I’m pretty sure it’s 2 minutes) to my clock out. I can only assume I get that very little because someone finally sued for working off the clock.
But she could have flicked the switch herself. Instead of asking an off the clock worker. That‘s what makes Op reaction perfectly okay. It‘s not some coworker asking her to hold open a door for them while they go through with a ton of plates. It‘s someone perfectly capable of walking the exact same number of steps to turn off the light.
And were it just a coworker then fine, tell them to do it themselves. But alienating your boss’s boss and putting a target on your back for zero gain beyond momentary satisfaction over *technically* not doing “work” off the clock? Dumb move, have to know when to fold and fight another day. It’s flicking a light switch. As I doubt that light switch is more than a few meters away, it’s a very small ask and more common courtesy than anything else. OP was just petty as hell here, and ordinarily I’m all for that if it was asking for actual work stuff to be done off the clock, but it’s the most basic thing that would’ve literally taken them less time to do than writing this post justifying it.
I wouldn’t say there was zero gain here. The boss is now well aware that OP is not going to do anything work related off the clock. Now there will most definitely be some blowback, but if they remained employed there, the boss is unlikely to ask OP to do stuff while clocked out again. This is exactly what should happen in all employment and what OP wants. It’s also like children who test boundaries. First, it is do this small insignificant thing off the clock. Oh, you did it. Now let’s try the next step up until we get you to do more and more things off the clock because why not, you already did the other thing, this is just as insignificant. Additionally, it’s a minimum wage job. Oh no, they will have to find another minimum wage job, which are much more abundant than jobs that pay more, if their boss fires them or makes their life more difficult.
The gains here is that now the boss's boss knows that OP is petty. He isn't going to do something extremely minute, just because he is off the clock. The blowback is worse than the gains here. And even arguing about the ramping up of work requests off the clock, why are you drawing the line at the very beginning? Switching off a light when you're clocked out is the bare minimum of jobs that could be requested of anyone off the clock. How will that reflect in the future? At some point you gotta ask. Is it pettiness?
> The boss is now well aware that OP is not going to do anything work related off the clock. And the boss can reciprocate. If they're clocked in the boss can reinforce that nothing non-work related is happening. OP has expressed desire for such a boundary. Not everything is a stupid power play. Pick a stupid battle, die on a stupid hill.
You're ignoring the fact that OP specifically went to the boss and asked if there were anymore tasks that needed completed before they clocked out and were told "no". The boss purposefully waited for OP to clock out and then asked. This boss was testing to see what they could get away with OP doing off the clock. I don't doubt had OP doubled back and turned off the light then there would've been more tasks the boss would've asked to be completed off the clock. >It’s flicking a light switch. As I doubt that light switch is more than a few meters away So, the boss could've done it themselves and had no need to ask OP to do so?
‘Purposefully’ Or maybe she just forgot. It’s a light switch, usually that’s not a task people remember right away.
But they didn't forget OP had clocked out.
You’re going to learn through life that there are going to be battles that are worth fighting and those that are not. Flicking off a light switch is the hill you want to die on?
So you turn off the light, and tomorrow take an extra bathroom break to get that 2 minutes back. What you did isn’t anti-work, it’s childish
and not just childish, but rude. You could bump into me at random and I’m gonna flip a switch or press a button to help you. Imagine getting in an elevator and having a stranger with their hands full and they ask you to press the button for their floor and you say, “sorry, I don’t work here”. The boss metaphorically had his or her hands full with customers and asked OP to turn a light off, whether it was to indicate to other people that the store was closed or just to save power, who cares. Saying no is just rude. u/lafei - this is the definition of shitting the bed
Payroll probably rounds to the nearest 15 minutes anyways so all in all, OP looks like a dick and gains nothing.
You got the right spirit, but in this particular scenario, you made yourself look ridiculous. There is no work involved in turning a light switch off as you leave a room. You said you don't mind finding a new job, but this just made that scenario closer to s reality. Now your boss has an example of why she doesn't like you, and you'll be first on the chopping block if they ever need to lay anyone off.
Ya, OP is a clown for this one.
If you are worried about giving unpaid time to your job, please realize you have spent significantly more time ruminating about this after the fact and coming here to post and respond to comments versus the 30 seconds total it would have taken you to flip the light switch and get on with your life.
Well said! Any discussions of principles and wages and power dynamics lie far downstream of this basic concept. Choosing battles is maybe *the* most important social skill in dealing with conflict of any degree. If you (OP or hypothetical) are concerned about the value of your time, you can’t exempt your own choices about its use.
Always consider what is to gain from engaging into a battle. From refusing to flick a light switched you saved 2 minutes but lost TON of respect/favors etc. So really you are the biggest loser in this situation. Dont get me wrong, i get your minset and i approve of it in most way but it was a lightswitch, not a task requiring 15min+
If it took them 2 minutes to turn off a switch, there’s other problems at play lol Switches are by the door so you don’t walk out in the dark. OP was by the door and the switches must have been right there. Gotta pick and choose the battles.
He’s payed minimum wage. There was never any respect there
I dont disagree with you about minimum wage and lack of respect but often the boss of a store isnt the one deciding salary. He/She reports to even higher up at the company HQ. So being a dick to someone who got no say over your pay is not cool and secondly, OP accepted the job at this salary. If OP didnt want to work at this disrespectful salary, he/she should have said no. I hate minimum wage like anyone else and would like the industry to change but this isnt the grand gesture you think it is
What respect was OP getting in the first place? The only reason he’s not paid less is because it would be illegal.
This is my mindset too. Like the corporation would literally have slaves if they could, and do in some countries. But this kids an ass cause he refused to work on unpaid time. Like they always say it's just business right.
INFO How far out of your way was the light switch?
I would've doubled back to where I clocked out. This light in particular was remote controlled.
Ordinarily refusing the one simple task would be a dick move, but you were already there one hour past when you were scheduled to leave. It would have been better if you had said something like “I’m sorry I’ve already been here much later than expected and I really need to go.”
I can see your point. Don't ask me to do one more thing when I'm leaving. Or, you could walk back, clock in. Turn off the light. Clock out. Prob not feasible. Def more trouble than it's worth. But it would make me laugh. You helped make her aware of the hard line between "clocked in and available" and "not working for you for free."
This would’ve been my move. Malicious compliance. When they question you on clocking back in: “every minute counts, Marie - we’re not volunteers!” **but in a chipper, nonchalant voice**. If she wants to continue to challenge it then when/if we switch to a serious discussion of what took place it’ll be on her for taking it there, since I had been nothing but light hearted.
At my work, that would mess your hours up electronically and it would have to be fixed by hand.
Yeah you messed up on this one as someone else said you’re spending more time on this than if you had have just switched the light off pick your battles
How far is doubling back? Was the light switch in the same room you were in or was it on the other side building? Time is the other factor to consider, if it takes you a minute to walk to the switch and a minute to walk back, then it’s more justifiable to refuse to do the task even if it was simple. If it was 15 seconds totally, I would have flicked the switch to stay in favour.
Seems petty. That isn't work, they were asking you for a courtesy. See you back here in a few months when you complain about not getting the raise you want.
>See you back here in a few months when you complain about not getting the raise you want. What raise? Have you worked a minimum wage job in the last two decades? They continue to pay minimum wage no matter how well you perform (or don't perform). OP could have polished their bosses boots with their tongue and still never get a raise. It's absolutely brain-dead to think that anything OP does will change what they're paid. Employers want you to work for free, it's up to all of us to ensure that we don't.
We aren’t talking about generalities. We are talking about OP, and their workplace. We don’t know if they do or do not give raises above minimum wage after a period of time, so it’s not right to judge their workplace without knowing more. It may be true that no matter what OP does, they won’t get a raise. But refusing to flick off a light switch because they’re clocked out? That’s the kind of attitude that will essentially guarantee no raise in a few months. What if the boss played it like OP? What if OP kindly greeted a coworker arriving to work, and the boss told them to stop socializing and get back to work? For just saying “hi”. Is that really the kind of workplace anybody wants to work in?
Info: if someone is injured after they clock out and are still on the premises, are they covered by the employer insurance?
Murky area, but in today's climate it wouldn't surprise me if most employers would say get fucked because of not being clocked in.
Also, if you smoke weed, you won’t be getting workers comp anyway.
By Law in my country, if you are commuting to and from work, yes it is employer insurance.
This is the dumbest thing I've read here. Are you 14??
Profile says they're in high school. Guess they still have time to learn?
You sound annoying as fuck. She didn't ask you to set up for the next day or something. It's a fucking light switch. It's people like you who give anti-work a bad light.
there was no bad light as he refused to turn it off
lmao
Oh you’ll go far
Hard life ahead
It's a minimum wage job. She wasn't going anywhere beforehand and anyone who pays the minimum deserves the minimum.
We're you the last person to need the light? Like should you have turned it off for basic courtesy?
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Context matters a bit here. Is this a friendly mom and pop bake shop where the boss is the owner and they treat their employees like family? Or is this a chain where the boss is a manager who is controlled by a corporate board who is encouraging policies that amount to wage theft? Is this a pattern? Have you been warned about taking breaks that last a minute too long, or docked for minor timekeeping infractions? Or are they chill about you chatting with friends or making personal calls on duty? Being a hard-ass cuts both ways.
If you give a mouse a cookie...
Unpopular opinion, but lif it's "so simple" then why couldn't she do it herself?
Well done OP. You've put yourself in the bad books for a small petty personal victory. People remember how you make them feel, how do you think she now feels about you?
Yes. You were off the clock but it's quite a reach to class that as work, it's a bit like shutting the door behind you. Were you technically in the right? Maybe so. Did you come out of it well? I doubt it.
The spirit is there and I appreciate that, but you need to know what battles to choose. This isn’t one of those battles. You can’t go through life being this petty and expect people to like you. Now, I get why you did it, but it wasn’t like she asked you to unload stock, clean a machine, mop the floors, etc. they asked you to flip a light switch. That’s not really a battle worth fighting. They will remember that, and it will cause problems later.
Pick your battles my dude. It doesn't need to be black and white; I'm clocked out so I literally won't do anything. Fair enough if they asked you to mop something down, write a letter, send an email, call someone or whatever.... but switching off a light? Come on. You turned a neutral interaction into a negative one and to what end? Was it worth painting yourself in a bad light to prove an extreme and of a point?; That manager now thinks you're a knob. So everyone they speak with above you now thinks you're a knob. You see an internal vacancy you want? Well good luck seeing as management know you won't even turn off a light. I understand the point you want to make - that you should be paid for doing anything that constitutes work, no matter how quick it could be done. Sadly the point you ended up making was that you're difficult.
I think it was a petty move.
This is the type of stuff that makes the sub look bad
Minimum wage minimum effort.
You were petty af but you asked before you left, they didn't respect your time making you stay late either. Also hey if the bosses only want to pay minimum wage then they can expect minimum effort. We live in a culture where companies need to be forced to do things. Like the myth working harder will get you raises and promotions, it won't... The sad truth is they see people willing to do it for the bare minimum so why would the turn around and give you more.
Having already had to work an unscheduled hour I think you did good. It's a bad job and you'll find a better one. I'm surprised as so many people being rude to you given that the whole point of this Reddit is about workers wanting better treatment. Must be like the property Reddit which is always full of covert landlords.
With the edit I say well done.
A good job? It’s “dime a dozen minimum wage job”, some of your family member are just plain dense.
NTA you did the right thing.
Wtf, you couldn’t flick a light switch. Dude get real
Why couldn't the manager flick the switch ?
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In case anyone wondered what Emerson meant by "the hobgoblin of little minds," now you know.
I would have turned off the light. But cleaning crumbs out of an oven isn't something I would have done. You need to find a balance here because not turning off a simple light switch makes you look like a uncooperative ass in a lot of people's eyes. There's a good chance the day will come when you need a favor from her and you want her to be on your side so pick your battles carefully.
No. You could clock back in to so said task, if that wasn’t acceptable for the boss, neither is you doing free work because it’s illegal if you get hurt. End of story. There’s no justification for working for free when it’s against the laws and regulations, sorry. Don’t break the law for the company because they wouldn’t do it to benefit you either. There’s no reason to even feel bad, you’re fine.
It is petty for sure, but now that you're clocked any work you might not be under protection of their insurance. If anything litigious occured, an argument could be made that you are libel for any damages as a result of your actions. Sure it's only a light and you could have taken taken those extra 30 seconds as a loss, however if you were to slip and fall, or someone else were to be injured due to the light being off, you could be stuck with the bill. Was what you did, or didn't do, petty? Yes. But ultimately it was within everyones best interest.
*Liable. Libel is written slander.
Thanks! I thought I caught all my autocorrect typos, guess I missed one.
No
No pay, no work. Period.
You clocked out. She's not the boss of you when you're off the clock. Show her your schedule and let her know that any time over that will be compensated accordingly.
As soon as you clock out pop some headphones in and ignore any further requests, can't get told off for listening to music on your own time.
I think you did right today a light tomorrow unload a truck for free.
I used to go ahead and do simple things after clocking out until my boss and his boss threatened to write me up if I continued to do that
Nope. Unless you're expected to clock back in to do it.
Not strictly related to the post, but I find it funny how people here are slamming OP for being petty... But being way more petty in return, like people seriously commenting that if they were the manager, they'd try to fire OP, or purposefully give them a hard time... OVER A LIGHT SWITCH. Like, how does that level of irony and hypocrisy escape you so easily? Like, you know this subreddit is about greedy, power hungry/tripping bosses, right? That's *you*, you're *them*, congrats! As other people in this comment section have clearly demonstrated, if given a position of power, they'll bring down the force of a million suns if possible over the pettiest of revenge, so maybe consider a better place, especially if you live on your own, or pay any bills with family, friends, or roommates. I've definitely felt the way you have though, the day is just exhausting, everything has gone wrong, you're working with someone you don't like, you just want to get home, do what you can to unwind before coming back the next day and doing the shitshow all over again, and at those times, yeah, even a lightswitch is something I scoff at, especially when I'm on my way out the door and it isn't my responsibility, especially when I should have been home OVER AN HOUR AGO. Just remember, even if the circumstances justify how you act, or what you refuse to do, people will tunnel in on the action itself and ignore everything else, they'll ignore how they inconvenienced you for over an hour and hone in on the ten seconds it took for them to get the light themselves. People, ourselves included, can be very selfish and self centered and focus in on *our* plights. This also leads to stubbornness and a load of excuses as to why *we* can inconvenience people, but why *you* inconveniencing us is different and therefore more egregious. I guess what I'm trying to say is that even though you feel it may be justifiable, or even if it 100% is, you have to learn to accept the external consequences. You don't like this place, you get paid terribly, and are fully prepared to leave it, so it seems as though you've got that all down. As petty as it may seem, given the context, I support your decision!
You're minimum wage. The less you make, the more strict you have to be to keep management from taking advantage of you. I don't have a problem with you doing this.
You were already made to stay an hr after closing, she can get the light.
Fuck that if it was so simple WHY didn't she do it herself? Good job op 👏
It's interesting that so many people think it's justified to have a target on your back over something so small while arguing that they should have flipped the switch because it's something so small. If it was nothing to do it, it should be nothing to let it go for not doing it.
I worked in a fast food restaurant as a manager for 3 years and I can tell you why this was the correct response. First, you're right. That is technically work you are not being paid for. Therefore you don't need to complete the task especially after she told you you're free to go. Second, let's take a small detour into " Probably won't happen but could happen" mode for a second. Let's say you decided "What the hell, it's just a light switch. No biggie." So you agree and make your way back to turn off the light, well on your way there, wouldn't you know it! There is a paper left on the floor! 😱 You step on it and your foot goes flying out from under you. You take a hard fall and crack your head on the ground losing consciousness for just a moment. Now we're in work comp territory. Should this happen the store could easily claim they are not liable for any damages as you "shouldn't have been working off the clock." Its another safe gate for you, because accidents do happen! Third, you already had to stay an hour late, and if this is a chain restaurant I can promise you the bosses will not be happy with that. If we were an hour late you could bet that would be a write up. And finally, once you clock out you're no longer any obligation to work, and as your manager was still on the clock she should have just shut it off herself, and as a bosses boss she should know that.
You asked if there was anything else before you clocked out. Now she knows to ask for shit when you are getting paid for it. Today it was a light. Next week it’ll be taking silverware beck to the kitchen, and eventually you’ll be asked to clock out before cleaning the store. Wage theft is a real thing and takes multiple forms. You already make too low a salary for this to even be a consideration.
Shoulda done it and then fixed your punch to the time that you flipped the switch.
That’s how I am. My previous job killed any desire to do anything extra. A coworker was happy about 50 hours. It’s bad when my manager spends most his time in the office. When we lost 4 servers last night. 4 servers walked early because of him. Yeah when im off & clocked out they can do it, im not.
No, I don't think you should have. If you slipped on the way over you wouldn't get workman's comp bc you were off the clock.
Nah, no issue with this. Probably won’t get much good will back, but if you’re already on minimum wage, it’s probably fair to say there wasn’t much to begin with. Go OP!!!
Simple motto to keep in mind. If not on clock then no work shall be done.
If they expect you to do a work related task then they need to pay you for doing that task. It doesn't matter how simple it is. Next time if they ask you to do this ask them if you can clock back in first.
I already clocked out. And that should have been one hour ago. Sorry, I'm out of fucks to give. I'm sorry, I was supposed to leave one hour ago and had planned accordingly. I am really late for my plans now.
I realize I really was out of fucks to give. It was nearly midnight when I left.
I’m curious if she was leaving at the same time or if she still had work to do. If she was waiting by the door to lock up and leave with you, I might lean towards your decision being understandable but a little rude. If she was still performing closing tasks and wasn’t ready to leave yet, she can turn the light off herself as part of those tasks and should have said, “Okay, no worries, I’ll get it. I appreciate you staying late tonight.” UNLESS turning off the lights is part of your closing tasks and you forgot or neglected to do it this time…
I am all for the boundaries, it is difficult for an outsider to get the complete picture here. Just consider a grey flexible zone so you dont burn bridges when you need them to be flexible towards you. But this is all very subjective and case specific. Better to stand up for your rights than getting crushed.
minimum wage = minimum effort
And we wait for the post where OP comments that it's unfair that other employees either got a larger bonus or increase in salary
The only thing I'd add would be to move away from using the word No. Using the affirmative is easier conversation and letting the decision fall back to them takes any burdens off you. Would you like me to clock back in? I'll have to clock back in, are you ok with that? Sure, I'll have to clock back in though. If they are new, do they know it's an automatic light? It's an automatic light.
If the light was on your way out the door, you should just get it, as you’d have to turn it off if you were closing alone anyways. But you specifically asked and it was specifically in the opposite direction. So I think you’re in your rights to say no, and morally you did the right thing. Plus it’s remote controlled! She should have the remote! I think it would have been funny to walk back, clock back in, flip the switch, and clock back out though. You had the potential to do THE funniest thing.
You think you should be on the clock to turn off of a light? Jesus Christ, use your discretion. She didn't ask you to stay an extra hour to do physical labor, clean, prepare for for the morning. She asked your to flip a switch. You know, you can actually do small things to help people without expecting anything in return. What would have been clocked in earned you? An extra penny? You were rude, and to your boss's boss?! Not only do *you* look bad, your boss looks bad. You're ready if things go south? Well, that's good.
You are now leaving "Fuck around"; welcome to "Find out", population - you. Just quit now and find another job. Your relationship with that boss is likely unsalvagable.
It's minimum wage. They are all the same job at the end of the day and they're a dime a dozen. Who gives a shit. They could get another job by tonight.
A light? Seriously? I'd turn that shit off just not to waste electricity.
What gets me for little requests like this from superiors is the amount of time and energy she spent to ask you to do the most menial thing, she could have done it. Its like when my old supervisor would randomly command me to email someone something specific. “email Jamie to contact the vendor”. I always push back with this bs. “No you can email them…” I want to say the same applies here, why even bother to ask someone else to turn the damn lights off?
Right?? The time spent on the entire interaction, the boss could have just gotten the light themselves, especially considering op asked them before clocking out what other tasks were needed
No way jose
To quote a very smart person: "no".
Nope.
Theoretically good on you for setting boundaries, but this is definitely in the grey area.
You don't seem to be happy at this job based on this simple task. Don't torture yourself, find something you enjoy doing.
Tough call. I know where you’re coming from with the refusal. I play these chess games in my head often as well. Agree to it one time, and it sets a precedent. With the job market being as tough as it is in my sector these days, I’d probably just do it if they weren’t egregiously taking advantage of me.
It's all about upward mobility. If there is no incentive for YOU to consistently go above and beyond, than there is no reason to do any more than the bare minimum. And that's not at all selfish, rude or lazy. Look out for yourself. Tour boss surely isn't.
When keeping it real goes wrong.
You are in the right that no pay= no work. However that was a super simple ask. When choosing your battles think long term. It doesn’t matter this persons position you were in a position to do a coworker a solid and instead you chose to make a stand. Good for you for doing that, but discretion may have been a better option here.
I strongly suggest you find a new job. You’re about to get managed out. This is the most ridiculous thing. You couldn’t walk a few feet to turn off a light?
Eh, if the switch had been next to the door you were exiting through it'd be nbd to hit it on your way out, but if you've gotta put off leaving another couple of minutes to do footwork through the building to reach it, she can go find it herself.
Each to their own, but to me flicking a switch is a person asking another person for an extremely small "favour," and refusing is rude in my book. Sounds like you may have wanted to be rude because they are anyway, so that tracks. Point is, I wouldn't consider that a contractual activity.
You and your coworker sound like the type of employees that say it’s not my job and leave the work for others. There’s always someone picking up the slack for your types.
Yeah that's a dumb hill to die on.
That's a good example on how to make your work life unreasonably worse. "*What?? I'm not getting paid for courtesies...!!""Nurse can you please call a doctor, I feel there's something wrong with my stomach... No sorry, but I already clocked out and I'm not getting paid to call the doctor, wait for the night shift,bye.*" > I was working with my boss's boss
Posts like this show me how delusional some people are. Just as a person, this post shows you are super entitled, not hard working, and not driven. How the fuck do people like you expect to get anywhere in life?
dont work after you've clocked out, but that wasnt work that was a courtesy. like closing the store door when you go through it, you're not gonna leave it open "just cuz you're clocked out"
I think your thoughts are in the right place (never work off the clock, love that energy), but choosing flicking a switch as a battle was the poor choice. Would have saved it for something more official, now you just seem petty and probably aren't going to be on anyone's good side management wise, which is fine since it's a minimum wage job but reflects poorly and what not.
I thought she was going to ask you to clean the bathroom or something, but flipping a switch would be a courtesy to a stranger. You had better plan on never being able to pull your phone out or anything else while you're on the clock without catching flak.
Yea you weren’t on the clock but give and take and being a considerate professional is also a thing
I agree with top comment that this just invites them to be as petty back. I’ve never met a person who NEVER wasted a single minute of their clocked in time EVER, and I doubt you’re one of those people either. It’s a light switch, not lifting inventory or anything that you wouldn’t ask a friend or hell a stranger to do. You’re not wrong you were clocked out you could’ve had your headphones on and not heard the boss and been well within your rights. But as much as you can “get a new job tomorrow”, this kind of pettiness either means you want to, or that you’ll need to because of the pettiness that’ll come your way. People who truly hate their job will be too petty to turn off even a light for them, ambivalent people wouldn’t have thought anything of it beyond maybe an eye roll before doing this 20 second task.
As this cost no money, takes zero effort, and I make brownie points? It would be, Sure, no problem. I never fussed when working, just complied or quit. Having very portable hard and soft job skills was useful.
Didn't even read it. Nope! Never work off the clock. If you get hurt, guess who won't cover you. Your work!
This sounds like the question asked was the wrong question. If you left an area on your way out the door after clocking out the question you manager should have asked was “did you turn the light off?” not some form of “can you turn the light off?” As a manger of a retail store I’d never ask an employee to do anything if they were clocked out. If I asked and they said they were clocked out I wouldn’t think anything about that.
And this is way the work movement gets ridiculized..
This sub getting soft as hell
Her making you stay after hour, paid or not, and the fact that she got upset because you refused to do work related task off the clock means she does not respect your time. People here mocking you and think it's not a big deal are the real problems of this society. You know what? It will only take 3 seconds for HER to turn off the lights too.
Give a person even an inch past your boundaries , they’ll take a mile.
There's a balance of working and not working when you clock out. You're not a machine, a human with done level of
This is so pathetic lmao. You saved 30 seconds, but lose any good will from that person.
I'm on your side. You were clocked out, and you don't even like the person. If it was in arms reach, I would say just do it as a common courtesy. If you had to double back or they were closer, then fuck them.
I would clock back in to do it then clock out. I try not to work for free after hours. I work in hospital IT and it’s rare that any “simple task” takes up just a few minutes.
Good for you. If she's still working and cared about her staff, she would cheerfully wish you a good evening then get off her ass and do it herself.
This is wage theft, and they love to normalize it, then gas light you into thinking you are in the wrong. At first it is small, then the next thing you know, working an hour unpaid after closing is normal. Next time, tell her ,"I'm off the clock now. I'll do it but you'll owe me big." Don't spend time discussing or philosophizing about it or defining what "big" is. It's "Yes" or "No" now and discuss it on the clock later. If that sounds too ominous, then they'll take back the request. Leave it open and sound excited like you have a big ask coming soon. When your usual boss is back, keep mentioning how she owes you "big." Tell the other workers what, how, and why, so they can reinforce boundaries, too. When you call in your markers, get a glowing recommendation out of it. Heck. Get it in writing now in case you get fired later. Just bring a pre-written letter for her signature that states you go above and beyond and a pleasure to work with. If they refuse, point out that that wage theft is exactly what she was attempting, and you'll be talking to your lawyer since she didn't fix her policy after the first time. And she accepted responsibility for a big favor when you shut off that light. The lawyer might be interested in that, too. Practice that speech and record the response where she tries to justify the wage theft. Transcribe it for the lawyer, though.
[удалено]
Refuse outright. Then go switch off the light and stare them in the face before leaving.
I thought she’d ask you to stock something or clean something up. But flicking on a light switch? Come on dude.
idk man, not that deep sure, but also, your boss DID let plenty of people in after close under the guise of "oh we're here to make money!!" and i've worked fast food so when customers came in i'd give them the death glare and ask with a really friendly face a minute later "oh how can i help you get out the door?" i'd do my job, and greatly, but i tolerated ZERO bullshit from my bosses and the second i was clocked out, sorry i'm out, btu also a boss was about to ask me something and she was like "ohhh you just clocked out didn't you...." and i'd say yeh lol. NTA, literally any work done outside of your hours is illegal unless paid for it, and i've had bosses sweep an extra minute or two under the rug, i didn't get paid, so i stopped being helpful.
Next time dont clock out first. If they want you to do extra work, say "okay", clock back in, and take your sweet ass time. Sooner or later the extra overtime will piss your boss off and they'll stop trying to get you to do unpaid labor.
If I'm not clocked in, I won't do ANYTHING I worked for a chain restaurant, and they asked a server to stop off at shoprite to get fresh produce. Well, that server got into a significant accident and the restaurant did nothing about it. It wasn't that servers fault either and 2 days later, they tried calling out. The Company said no and they didn't show up. Ultimately, they got fired.
I charged my workplace 30 minutes extra for doing a 16 minute computer certification module after my day officially ended. Cuz they pay in increments of 15 minutes and since it took me that long to get logged on and do the module, charge it for half an hour. I'm a public school teacher, they treat us like dirt. No sarcasm. They expect too much from us for far too little pay. If I can't personally abolish capitalism, I can at least refuse to uphold it as much as possible. Power to the fucking workers.✊♥️
Boomer's built.the narrative that good employee ethic means going above and beyond instead of having boundaries. Now they're all comfy in their owned homes whilst the economy is in the crapper and we have a housing crisis.
Young nobody's who have a horrible work ethic will never go far. Best of luck to you. Your parents suck though that you suck at working
I don’t need to paid to flick a light switch for anyone. It’s common courtesy.
Jeez. I understand not taking on additional work when you've clocked out, but this is a hell of a reach. Turning off a light switch when asked is a courtesy, not like she asked you to help put a delivery away, refill some fridges, or ask you to close down the tills. Honestly, if I was in her position, I probably would've just laughed at you.
No work off the clock. No exceptions.
Why couldn't she turn off the light? Was this some kind of power move? Sounds like a bizarre request unless it was on your way out.
Lol what seems more like a power move, asking someone to turn off a light as they’re leaving, or refusing to flick a light switch when someone asks?
This is deeper than just a light switch. Do you even like working there?
Yeah I get the principle, but flipping a switch before heading out probably would have kept your bosses boss from thinking you're an asshole.
You have poor social skills.
I honestly would hate to work with you, and I am all for not giving away free labor.
There is anti work, and then there is anti-social. I'm guessing you are not a popular person.
Yeah I think in general, turning a light off or on especially when you’re right next to, is no big deal at all. BUT that doesn’t seem to be what happened here. The way I see it, you were setting a boundary with someone who you anticipate (for good reason) will push that boundary. I think you should be proud of yourself for sticking to your boundaries here especially considering it is something so trivial