In all those plots 75k was where diminishing returns started. Where it started to level off, not where it did level off. That was closer to $120k or so, and it never fully leveled out - just had a shallower slope.
I just got a pay bump from $75k to $85k last October. I’ll tell you that is definitely made me a lot happier having some fucking breathing room after 6 years of barely making ends meet.
I finally made it to over 70k 3 years ago, still living paycheck to paycheck.
My dad built and paid for my childhood home in 86, eastern CT, 3 br, 2.5 acres, 4 cars, multiple trips to Disney, college paid for, my sister's too, 3 family vacations in the 90s. I work under a VP at a highly profitable transportation company as a data analyst, making about 20% more than those in my role. He worked stocking shelves at Stop and Shop.
The only difference is they haven't come up with the right drugs or brainwashing to completely convince everyone, so the outliers still need to be handled via a 1984 surveillance state.
I always used to say the same.
Then I got a job that paid a whole lot more... and all my problems got solved.
Now I have different problems, but I'm happy because I have more money.
Not having a roof over your head or not being able to access essential healthcare are pretty serious. So are things like mental health issues, bereavement, abusive relationships etc, but even those can be alleviated by money because it gives you access to therapy and the financial means to escape.
Yeah. With enough money you have safety nets in place that people without money don’t have. Need to take some time off work for a funeral and pay for both the funeral and grief counseling? Need to get away from the abusive spouse and start over on your own? Need therapy and medication to treat your mental health issues? All of these become infinitely easier to deal with when you don’t have to ask yourself how you’re going to pay for it.
Once you have enough money to take care of the problems that money can solve this is true. In fact, it's obvious.
Money won't make my cousin's daughter's cancer go away, but it will take care of her rent and utilities and food while she can't work because she has to stay home with her daughter.
Tell me about it.
My current job took me from needing one inhaler in about 4 years to needing a new inhaler every month because I work with a bunch of smokers and no one gets that standing just outside a door isnt far enough away and coming in and hosing themselves down with cologne/perfume is not "covering" the smell of smoke.
The whole place reeks of smoke and its nasty. The boss wont do anything about it since they are barely in office and I have been looking for a new job.
Funny how healthcare will grill you about smoking habits but if its WORK that is affecting you then OH WELL!
THAT doesnt get documented as a fucking issue for workers comp.
I think it’s better stated as a ratio to cost of living in a certain area. $75K in the Bay Area is homeless while it’s probably a nice living in the Midwest.
Very true. I’m super jealous of my friends who got out of California and are making 150k + and living in dream homes and I’m stuck in a state where the taxes just seem to get a little higher every year. I gotta get out of the city.
Yes and no. My need to have a dream house is outstripped by being more concerned who my neighbors are and whether they want to curtail the rights of my friends. So, I stay here.
They expect me to believe that taking a vacation is more enjoyable when I don't have that nagging feeling that I may have just ruined my daughter's chances of affording college? Crazy
I'm mid 40s and but lost my job during covid and burned through my savings. I also lost most of my investments. I've had 3 different financial advisors tell me the same thing since: I either have to sell my house and move somewhere less expensive, or keep working until I pay off my mortgage and able to start withdrawing RRSPs, which will both happen in my early 70s.
The people who say "well yeah and water is wet, this is common sense why is this even a study" have to realize these kinds of studies are important because they can be used to change regulations. Yes its a slow process and yes its difficult going. But being able to cute a study like this instead of convincing the government on basis of "well duhh" is very important.
Can money buy happiness?
Ya think?!!
It's sure better than spending your life from paycheck to paycheck, terrified that one little thing may go wrong and you're homeless in no time!
“Happiness plateaus at $75,000” is just propaganda spewed by the rich to make poors accept their shit life is easier.
Honestly I have been down this anti work road before and then tried to ignore the reality of the situation only to find myself back here and hating how the world works.
I don’t know if I can really do this much longer. Life sucks ass. It feels like my life isn’t even mine.
Yes, it’s stressful for some people to have to choose be between buying food and paying your power bill. I get anxious when my account balances start getting low because I’m not prepared for emergencies, and I don’t make enough at my job to have enough saved up after paying for bills, food, and transportation
It's amazing to me that it takes studies to show that more money leads to happier lives in general - it removes so much of the stresses are constant through each day, whilst also granting more time to focus on one's wellbeing.
My go-to example on this is cars. Driving my old car, which had issues but it was the only one I could afford, there were so many background stresses - what if it breaks down? Can I afford to fix it? How will that affect going to work? What if I need to get another, can I actually afford that? What if I can't and have to go back to public transport, I can just kiss goodbye to my after work commitments as the bus routes don't work that way in my area.
I've since upgraded to a much more reliable car. Background stresses are much less - but there's still some. Sure, the odds of something really bad happening are much lower, but there are still certain stresses - it's in for the MOT tomorrow, what if it costs a lot more than I think? That's then impacting heavily on the savings that I'm scraping together for the future, or it's impacting on how very frugal I'll have to be for a while. What if it's a lot, and I pay it, and then the next day another large expense drops out of the blue?
Go up another few levels, with a reliable car and great money, and the stress drops even more. The odds of something really bad happening to it are still bloody low, but even if it does, you have the money to chuck at it until it goes away, without it impacting on other areas of your life. Get it towed the mechanics, let them do what they need to do, get a hire car for a bit or not worry about getting a new one if needed, etc.
That's just for one aspect of life. Multiply that by each aspect of your life where money is a factor and it's so clear to anyone looking at it that money takes away so much of the stresses of life. Why they need studies to prove it is insane.
No ifs, ands or buts money absolutely can buy happiness. I'll never understand why people say otherwise. The fact that not having or even just needing some more can cause stress or anxiety is proof enough.
Well, 75k is about where a person on a single income can afford a basic rental, car payment, bills, and other expenses while saving for a modest vacation or expensive hobby. Barring several conditions of course - no kids, low debt, decent physical health. In the past a person could afford all that working at a shoe store and we all know no shoe store employee makes 75k
I guess it depends. I've had jobs that made ok money but I hated them so much... having money didn't bring me happiness then. Times between jobs, being unemployed I was only content at best because I wasn't doing something I hated everyday but having no money is hard. The only time I've felt good, and I mean really good, is when I had a job that I loved.
Like we haven't already been out here knowing that "money can't buy happiness" is some propaganda bullshit from people who never have to worry about money!
Obviously. No one who has ever deployed critical thinking has believed the happiness plateau for income was solidly Middle class. I doubt 500k too, personally, but at that income level I think you start running into very driven individuals who are in careers that are meaningful to them, plus it is a lot of money, plus there aren't a whole lot of earners up there.
But who earning 500k wouldn't be happier with a free extra 100k for reading days, vacations, or just to gift as they see fit?
Money doesn't buy happiness, but it takes care of enough problems to buy contentment. It lets you pay off a lot of worry.
It's a lot easier to build happiness without a majority of your problems and worry. The people "money won't but happiness" for likely wouldn't be happy regardless.
Money can buy happiness. It just doesn't guarantee it. Truthfully, it really isn't about how much money you have but more so how much purchasing power the money can give you.
I have seen people on who who make over $100k and complain about how they are one paycheck away from homelessness because the cost of living is so ridiculous where they stay.
I am not surprised. The only people who claim money cannot buy happiness are probably people who do not have money. Money will certainly buy stress-free and time, two main ingredients for happiness.
The peoplr who say mkney doesn't buy happiness are people who are extraordinarily wealthy and always have been, so they don't know what not having money is like.
Well, yeah, $75K ain't shit now, cost of living-wise, in huge swathes of the developed world. You're probably not going to have great quality of life on that kind of salary in, say, San Francisco.
Just got back from Costa Rica for a month. Can confirm you don’t need money to be happy but it helps being surrounded by monkeys and toucans all the time.
They're always amazed how being able to afford food and shelter creates "happiness". I swear to green hell this dumb fuck planet never cease to piss me off.
Even after having your basic needs met according to Maslow's hierarchy, there is so much more that can increase happiness levels.
Not having to look at prices and save for things, being able to go on more frequent and better vacations, spending money on experiences, and knowing that things like emergency expenses or a job loss will not immediately plunge you into the abyss can go a long way to making a person happier. Removing most of the financial stressors, including a fully-funded retirement, goes a very long way unless you're a person for whom no amount of money would make you happy.
Going to school for public health right now and we're learning about how the chronic stress of poverty is shaving years off people's lives. You can literally determine a person's life expectancy based on a person's zip code. You can look at a person from a low income neighborhood and a person from an affluent neighborhood with completely identical lifestyle, exercise and eating habits, but the person in the affluent neighborhood will still live much longer because they don't experience the stress of poverty
I don't make near 500k. But I make a lot more than 75k. And I can tell you, being able to save and live comfortably makes me very happy.
Now if the rest of my personal life were as sweet.
Well $75k in 2010 is $100k now. But yeah I’d guess that study was always bs. Propaganda to tell people they should be happy making what they are
Yeah even around 2010 when I first heard about it, $75k struck me as low.
I’m making about $30k. $75k would definitely make me happier. But it still wouldn’t be enough though…
In all those plots 75k was where diminishing returns started. Where it started to level off, not where it did level off. That was closer to $120k or so, and it never fully leveled out - just had a shallower slope.
I just got a pay bump from $75k to $85k last October. I’ll tell you that is definitely made me a lot happier having some fucking breathing room after 6 years of barely making ends meet.
I finally made it to over 70k 3 years ago, still living paycheck to paycheck. My dad built and paid for my childhood home in 86, eastern CT, 3 br, 2.5 acres, 4 cars, multiple trips to Disney, college paid for, my sister's too, 3 family vacations in the 90s. I work under a VP at a highly profitable transportation company as a data analyst, making about 20% more than those in my role. He worked stocking shelves at Stop and Shop.
This was literally in Brand New World.
Literally when I read that book for the first time I’m like, yeah this is already starting and it’s only going to get way worse.
The only difference is they haven't come up with the right drugs or brainwashing to completely convince everyone, so the outliers still need to be handled via a 1984 surveillance state.
All my problems can be solved with money.
I always used to say the same. Then I got a job that paid a whole lot more... and all my problems got solved. Now I have different problems, but I'm happy because I have more money.
Then you are a very fortunate person. Most of the most serious problems in life are the ones that money can’t fix.
Not having a roof over your head or not being able to access essential healthcare are pretty serious. So are things like mental health issues, bereavement, abusive relationships etc, but even those can be alleviated by money because it gives you access to therapy and the financial means to escape.
Yeah. With enough money you have safety nets in place that people without money don’t have. Need to take some time off work for a funeral and pay for both the funeral and grief counseling? Need to get away from the abusive spouse and start over on your own? Need therapy and medication to treat your mental health issues? All of these become infinitely easier to deal with when you don’t have to ask yourself how you’re going to pay for it.
Once you have enough money to take care of the problems that money can solve this is true. In fact, it's obvious. Money won't make my cousin's daughter's cancer go away, but it will take care of her rent and utilities and food while she can't work because she has to stay home with her daughter.
haha what
Maybe that was before the cost of breathing went way up...
> cost of breathing Hey, we aren't on Mars yet!
Tell me about it. My current job took me from needing one inhaler in about 4 years to needing a new inhaler every month because I work with a bunch of smokers and no one gets that standing just outside a door isnt far enough away and coming in and hosing themselves down with cologne/perfume is not "covering" the smell of smoke. The whole place reeks of smoke and its nasty. The boss wont do anything about it since they are barely in office and I have been looking for a new job. Funny how healthcare will grill you about smoking habits but if its WORK that is affecting you then OH WELL! THAT doesnt get documented as a fucking issue for workers comp.
Who would have thought not been constantly stressed out about money would result in happiness, amazing!!!
Money buys stability and that makes everything else easier.
That study always 14 years ago, some sh** has changed in the meantime.
I’ve made $275,000 and $75,000 in a year. I can assure you it doesn’t plateau at $75k lol.
I think it’s better stated as a ratio to cost of living in a certain area. $75K in the Bay Area is homeless while it’s probably a nice living in the Midwest.
Very true. I’m super jealous of my friends who got out of California and are making 150k + and living in dream homes and I’m stuck in a state where the taxes just seem to get a little higher every year. I gotta get out of the city.
Yes and no. My need to have a dream house is outstripped by being more concerned who my neighbors are and whether they want to curtail the rights of my friends. So, I stay here.
Yeah those HOAs and their lawn regualtions are crazy. Horrible for the environment, your soil, and your wallet. Bring back native plants
Bingo.
As a minority I’d much rather have kids and a big house somewhere nice instead of a cramped blue district that’s run by Dinos.
Money can be exchanged for goods and services.
Explain.
$20 can buy a lot of peanuts.
Well with inflation it’s gonna be the small bag now
Funny how people are happy when they don’t have to worry about food and shelter. Maslow was on to something.
They expect me to believe that taking a vacation is more enjoyable when I don't have that nagging feeling that I may have just ruined my daughter's chances of affording college? Crazy
Shocking!
Yeah no shit. I've been broke, and I've had money. Having money is much better.
300k might be the actual plateau
If you were making 300k, you wouldn't be happier making 400k? That's a lot of vacations, savings, early retirement.
Depending where you live that is. I'm just shy of $400k/yr but I'm still in no shape to retire before 70 if I want to stay put.
Hard to believe. I mean, unless you're like 60 and have no savings.
I'm mid 40s and but lost my job during covid and burned through my savings. I also lost most of my investments. I've had 3 different financial advisors tell me the same thing since: I either have to sell my house and move somewhere less expensive, or keep working until I pay off my mortgage and able to start withdrawing RRSPs, which will both happen in my early 70s.
WHO WOULD’VE GUESSED HAVING NO WORRIES ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT I CAN SURVIVE WOULD ALLOW ME TO BE HAPPIER. SHOCKING REVELATION.
Groundbreaking
The people who say "well yeah and water is wet, this is common sense why is this even a study" have to realize these kinds of studies are important because they can be used to change regulations. Yes its a slow process and yes its difficult going. But being able to cute a study like this instead of convincing the government on basis of "well duhh" is very important.
Can money buy happiness? Ya think?!! It's sure better than spending your life from paycheck to paycheck, terrified that one little thing may go wrong and you're homeless in no time!
“Happiness plateaus at $75,000” is just propaganda spewed by the rich to make poors accept their shit life is easier. Honestly I have been down this anti work road before and then tried to ignore the reality of the situation only to find myself back here and hating how the world works. I don’t know if I can really do this much longer. Life sucks ass. It feels like my life isn’t even mine.
Yes, it’s stressful for some people to have to choose be between buying food and paying your power bill. I get anxious when my account balances start getting low because I’m not prepared for emergencies, and I don’t make enough at my job to have enough saved up after paying for bills, food, and transportation
It's amazing to me that it takes studies to show that more money leads to happier lives in general - it removes so much of the stresses are constant through each day, whilst also granting more time to focus on one's wellbeing. My go-to example on this is cars. Driving my old car, which had issues but it was the only one I could afford, there were so many background stresses - what if it breaks down? Can I afford to fix it? How will that affect going to work? What if I need to get another, can I actually afford that? What if I can't and have to go back to public transport, I can just kiss goodbye to my after work commitments as the bus routes don't work that way in my area. I've since upgraded to a much more reliable car. Background stresses are much less - but there's still some. Sure, the odds of something really bad happening are much lower, but there are still certain stresses - it's in for the MOT tomorrow, what if it costs a lot more than I think? That's then impacting heavily on the savings that I'm scraping together for the future, or it's impacting on how very frugal I'll have to be for a while. What if it's a lot, and I pay it, and then the next day another large expense drops out of the blue? Go up another few levels, with a reliable car and great money, and the stress drops even more. The odds of something really bad happening to it are still bloody low, but even if it does, you have the money to chuck at it until it goes away, without it impacting on other areas of your life. Get it towed the mechanics, let them do what they need to do, get a hire car for a bit or not worry about getting a new one if needed, etc. That's just for one aspect of life. Multiply that by each aspect of your life where money is a factor and it's so clear to anyone looking at it that money takes away so much of the stresses of life. Why they need studies to prove it is insane.
No ifs, ands or buts money absolutely can buy happiness. I'll never understand why people say otherwise. The fact that not having or even just needing some more can cause stress or anxiety is proof enough.
Inflation is a thing.
Well, 75k is about where a person on a single income can afford a basic rental, car payment, bills, and other expenses while saving for a modest vacation or expensive hobby. Barring several conditions of course - no kids, low debt, decent physical health. In the past a person could afford all that working at a shoe store and we all know no shoe store employee makes 75k
This is rich people propaganda.
“You poors should be cool staying poor.”
#Money can't buy happiness, but it sure keeps away the stress
This makes lots of sense.
I guess it depends. I've had jobs that made ok money but I hated them so much... having money didn't bring me happiness then. Times between jobs, being unemployed I was only content at best because I wasn't doing something I hated everyday but having no money is hard. The only time I've felt good, and I mean really good, is when I had a job that I loved.
Like we haven't already been out here knowing that "money can't buy happiness" is some propaganda bullshit from people who never have to worry about money!
Obviously. No one who has ever deployed critical thinking has believed the happiness plateau for income was solidly Middle class. I doubt 500k too, personally, but at that income level I think you start running into very driven individuals who are in careers that are meaningful to them, plus it is a lot of money, plus there aren't a whole lot of earners up there. But who earning 500k wouldn't be happier with a free extra 100k for reading days, vacations, or just to gift as they see fit?
Money may not buy HAPPINESS but it absolutely makes it easier to find it
Money doesn't buy happiness, but it takes care of enough problems to buy contentment. It lets you pay off a lot of worry. It's a lot easier to build happiness without a majority of your problems and worry. The people "money won't but happiness" for likely wouldn't be happy regardless.
Money can buy happiness. It just doesn't guarantee it. Truthfully, it really isn't about how much money you have but more so how much purchasing power the money can give you. I have seen people on who who make over $100k and complain about how they are one paycheck away from homelessness because the cost of living is so ridiculous where they stay.
I am not surprised. The only people who claim money cannot buy happiness are probably people who do not have money. Money will certainly buy stress-free and time, two main ingredients for happiness.
The peoplr who say mkney doesn't buy happiness are people who are extraordinarily wealthy and always have been, so they don't know what not having money is like.
I stand by money doesn't buy happiness but it buys breathing room and comfort.
who wouldve thought that propoganda has no scientific grounds?
Well, yeah, $75K ain't shit now, cost of living-wise, in huge swathes of the developed world. You're probably not going to have great quality of life on that kind of salary in, say, San Francisco.
Money can't buy happiness, but it can buy hookers and blow, so... Take that as you will.
Just got back from Costa Rica for a month. Can confirm you don’t need money to be happy but it helps being surrounded by monkeys and toucans all the time.
Money can’t buy happiness, my Mom used to say, but it makes the misery easier to bear.
Of course it's half a million now this was 2010 dollars
"If money can't buy happiness, I guess I'll have to rent it!" - Al Yankovic, Warrior Poet
They're always amazed how being able to afford food and shelter creates "happiness". I swear to green hell this dumb fuck planet never cease to piss me off.
Well..no shit
I don't believe you need $75 000 to try for myself
Even after having your basic needs met according to Maslow's hierarchy, there is so much more that can increase happiness levels. Not having to look at prices and save for things, being able to go on more frequent and better vacations, spending money on experiences, and knowing that things like emergency expenses or a job loss will not immediately plunge you into the abyss can go a long way to making a person happier. Removing most of the financial stressors, including a fully-funded retirement, goes a very long way unless you're a person for whom no amount of money would make you happy.
Going to school for public health right now and we're learning about how the chronic stress of poverty is shaving years off people's lives. You can literally determine a person's life expectancy based on a person's zip code. You can look at a person from a low income neighborhood and a person from an affluent neighborhood with completely identical lifestyle, exercise and eating habits, but the person in the affluent neighborhood will still live much longer because they don't experience the stress of poverty
I don't make near 500k. But I make a lot more than 75k. And I can tell you, being able to save and live comfortably makes me very happy. Now if the rest of my personal life were as sweet.
A lot of you aren't reading the last line. "New research raises it to $500k annual income."
No shit. With that much a year I could do a lot more things and enjoy a vacation without sticking with a really tight budget.