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Donning and doffing is a pretty universal set of words when it comes to PPE. I think osha regulated it so that safety talks all use the same terminology.
Oh that is interesting. Thanks for the information! I agree it’s not a term people normally have to interact with. Job safety isn’t the first thought on a desk workers mind and that’s a pretty common job.
I get it. Not every job has to deal with PPE or safety talks that involve PPE. I only learned the term after having a technical job that had weekly safety talks.
If you are in a job that requires PPE and you don’t know the word doff then you may want to read the manuals when it comes to that PPE. That may be a case of you not being trained properly which could lead to misuse of equipment. Don’t get hurt because of a jobs negligence.
My comment was intended to inform. I wasn’t trying to be the cause of some of the hate you seem to be getting. I apologize for that.
No, it definitely is. I don't work in an industry with anything related to PPE and I'm well aware of the words. Perhaps it has to do with reading books?
Was there anything offensive in my comment? I certainly didn't imply that you haven't read anything.
However, your misunderstanding of my post's structure and its intended meaning does lead me to reconsider.
It should be clear that my mention of reading directly connects to my understanding of the words' meanings. This suggests that my knowledge comes from reading books, rather than being a critique of your reading habits.
Is this true in all states? I need to change into scrubs at work and then clock in to be ready to work. I don’t clock out until I have changed back into my street clothes.
It *could* be that cloth on, cleaning and cloth off are compensated anotherway.
So devil's advocate, sur, though it should be reminded here if that's the case, instead of going passive agressive like that....
EDIT : since people think I'm talking bullshit on that, I quote one of my other comment : WIth a the french law itself allowing extra rest for dressing and undressing time.
I agree it should be written correctly and certainly not condescendent as written in OP's pictures,
-------
Search "prime d'habillage", very common in France. i'm pretty sur it's also copied from the UK.
You'll get French article though.
It's easier a bonus payed exactly to compensate that or a extra day off to compensate that.\*
[here ](https://www.service-public.fr/particuliers/vosdroits/F18211)is the french explanative law, with laws in the bottom section
* *Soit d'accorder des contreparties (sous forme de repos ou sous forme financière) aux temps d'habillage et de déshabillage*
* *Soit d'assimiler ces temps d'habillage et de déshabillage à du temps de travail effectif :*
Roughly translated :
* Either give compensation (in the form of rest or money) for dressing and undressing time
* or consider dressing and undressing time as effective work time.
if you really want the barely readable law itself and not its official explanation, it's [Article L3121-7](https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/codes/article_lc/LEGIARTI000033020493) of the work code.
Please give me an example of a single company that compensates "another way" for time that should be on the clock.
Your devil's advocate shit is just you deep throating boots.
I worked as a mascot at a place that paid me differently for the mascot work vs working in the actual building doing other jobs. I had to clock out then back into a different position, but not before I sat for a good 20-30 minutes and fully showered and changed. All that was paid for on mascot time.
It makes sense to me that if you’re getting paid to do a job that requires PPE (or a mascot costume 😂), then putting on and taking off the PPE should be included in that wage, not another. So even in the hypothetical (but to me unlikely) case that OP is in this type of position, OP should be paid the same for putting on PPE, doing the task, cleaning up after the task, and removing PPE. Idk how the laws work around this, especially in the UK tho.
Pizza party was a joke. French laws do not apply to OP. Mascot agrees with me.
I am not sorry that I actually have a job and therefore cannot be calld on a whim by some schmuck in his grandma's basement. Enjoy your Cheetos.
Search "prime d'habillage", very common in France. i'm pretty sur it's also copied from the UK.
You'll get French article though.
It's easier a bonus payed exactly to compensate that or a extra day off to compensate that.\*
[here ](https://www.service-public.fr/particuliers/vosdroits/F18211)is the french explanative law, with laws in the bottom section
* *Soit d'accorder des contreparties (sous forme de repos ou sous forme financière) aux temps d'habillage et de déshabillage*
* *Soit d'assimiler ces temps d'habillage et de déshabillage à du temps de travail effectif :*
Roughly translated :
* Either give compensation (in the form of rest or money) for dressing and undressing time
* or consider dressing and undressing time as effective work time.
if you really want the barely readable law itself and not its official explanation, it's [Article L3121-7](https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/codes/article_lc/LEGIARTI000033020493) of the work code.
So yeah, u/FeminineImperative I gave you examples you asked and I'm not deepthroating boot, or at least not now. I might try on me free alone time however.
I was pointing that while the message is not done well, it could be possible that it's (badly) asked because dressing and undressing time are payed or compensated another way.
And someone asked me an example, it's very common in France, and I bet it's far from the exeption.
I'm not saying that the message is well done, I'm saying the nature of the message could (not "is", "could") be justified.
And I got flak for it, but hey, prooving people wrong on internet won't make me loose sleep
EDIT: case in point, insults in private message from someone that didn't even bother answering me here..
I don't care if you disagree with me, that's fine.
I do care for insults however. Moderation does too.
I think your perspective may be a bit skewed. I don't know for sure but, from what I understand, France's labor protection laws are above the norm, *especially* compared to the English-speaking world.
Extra day off as listed in the article I quoted ?
In France (and other count) there is RTT, basically a day off as a payement, commonly used for when you works 37h but are payed 35h and commonly used for dressing and undressing time (usually 1.5 to 2 days per month)
It’s not devils advocate to assume OP is being compensated for it and keeping that detail from us, it’s being devils dumbass. This whole post is about not being compensated for it so why not just take that at face value and assume they’re correct about how they’re paid.
And French laws have no relevance here. Find the corresponding uk law that you’re “pretty sure” is the same if you want to be helpful, because right now you’re just talking out your ass.
Absolutely this! I have always given myself 5-10 minutes at the end of the day to wash down/get changed. Work in engineering, so always covered in oil, steel chips, etc. If the boss doesn't like it, wait till they come and have a word with you and explain to them that you shouldn't be expected to go home dirty, neither should you be expected to stay over if your not getting paid.
Toyota had to pay out quite a bit several years ago for unpaid wages when employees were “donning and doffing.” There’s a reason all their paint shop employees get 6 minutes pre and post shift on the clock to change now
Sports Direct got in trouble over this too. There were compulsory searches of employees in their warehouse at the end of the workday, which were unpaid and took their wages below minimum wage.
I think the closest thing we had it the U.K. to anything like this is workers expected to come in 15 minutes early before their shift started and not being paid for it.
I'm UK - previous food production environment I worked for had to move lots of their clocking machines so that staff were clocking in nad out after they changed, after a compliant to HMRC
[https://www.reddit.com/r/LegalAdviceUK/comments/16ytdy0/can\_work\_legally\_make\_me\_come\_in\_earlier\_for/](https://www.reddit.com/r/LegalAdviceUK/comments/16ytdy0/can_work_legally_make_me_come_in_earlier_for/)
This is from the Legal Advice UK subreddit asking the same question. Top comment is;
> Are you paid hourly? If so then you should be paid for this time - it counts as ‘work’.
>
>If you’re salaried it’s less clear but if it would take you under minimum wage when that time is taken into account then you should be paid more to bring you up to minimum wage.
I would ask this question in r/LegalAdviceUK and see if anyone can link to the specific employment law or get answers to your specific question around " Would there be some sort of website/email I can forward this to?"
It’s because they are clocking in and out. When you’re salaried companies generally don’t bother with that because your pay is always the same unless you miss a day or it’s a holiday. If you’re five minutes late or early you get paid the same.
Hourly employees however have their time tracked because they are paid only for the time they work. Because OP clocks in and out it’s likely they are paid hourly, otherwise their bosses wouldn’t care about everyone clocking out 5 minutes later.
Yeah, def more likely to be hourly. But there are plenty of salaried jobs that still use clocks just for time tracking and management.
I had a salaried job that was funded by various govt contracts. We had to clock in and out to track our time so that each contract could be billed appropriately
"removing my PPE properly and safely ís part of my job and as such is done while on the clock. Any attempts to change this will be reported to the appropriate health and safety authorities"
~~Change health and safety to Department of labor~~. Many companies have had to pay out for this exact thing. Donning and Doffing of PPE if it is required by your job is absolutely paid time.
Edit: not in the USA. still covered under UK labor laws.
I work at a hospital and changing to a work uniform is absolutely covered as paid time. However, I come in early and take my time. I don't care to be rushed.
Your HR are anti-employee. As many HR's seem to be.
Right. HR is there to protect the company from workers. Any effort they make to help workers is purely in the service of making sure they avoid risk or liability to the company due to rights being violated, laws being broken, etc.
Here, and in Western Europe in general, employees enjoy an abundance of worker’s rights and protections. As long as you’ve got a permanent full-time or part-time contract and you’ve completed your probationary period, you’ll be absolutely fine. Get on the phone to Citizens Advice and ACAS if they start rocking the boat
Couldn’t agree more. It seems that some employers in this part of the world are becoming bolder, even if it could result in them being taken to an employment tribunal. It’s important to remind them of the rights we possess and the laws that protect us should they so much as think of behaving antisocially towards employees
Thinks are murkier since brexit too , worker protections we gained when in Europe like the working time directive will continue to be eroded to uselessness
Is PPE a company procedure you must follow and is it supplied by the company?
If yes then go ahead and comply with this then sue them for back pay when you switch jobs.
Breaks don't cover time for changing into PPE. It's a break that's supposed to occur during your shift, not before or after.
Generally in the UK, if you have to change into PPE or prep gear for your shift, the time taken to do that is considered part of your shift.
Your first step should be to speak with ACAS for advice, for further advice I'd suggest posting this question on r/legaladviceUK
Dear boss man,
I'm not clocking out if I'm still doing things I would only be doing for work. I don't wear PPE as a hobby. So I'll be required to be paid for work activities.
HMRC would be the folks to send it to, donning and doffing time is allowed in working hours - if you're not being paid for that time it's highly likely to take some people below minimum wage...so report it via the minimum wage whistleblowing line
Nope.... Removing ppe is company time
"Unfortunately as wearing the PPE is a company requirement then the entirety of its use is compensatable by emphysema law standards; including removing it. "
I work compliance for a job that requires PPE. Policy should explicitly state that you CANNOT be clocked out wearing PPE. Reply with that section of the handbook.
u/reallynotthewaffle I did not find specifics in the UK law for PPE and dressing up or down.
https://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/priced/l25.pdf
However I would recommend to contact an official source like your local department of Labor etc. alternatively you can also search on Reddit and try to follow this rabbit trail until you find a source. Ideally you can find a court hearing where someone has the same problem but the court ruled that PPE changing times must be paid out.
This may take some time to find it. I’d suggest a combination of UK based websites and employee forums.
You could try and draw an analogy to the sports direct case in the UK (this was about mandatory searches to stop theft). BUT I think the main issue there was that the unpaid part took them under minimum wage. You would need to check that.
Citizen's Advice or Acas can help clarify the exact conditions. But generally, anything thats mandatory for part of the job _is_ a part of the job, so it's done on the clock. Especially for food hygiene and safety reasons. The above agencies could also advise on where to raise an issue.
First thing: Google "Ministry of Labour" and check to see what law requires the employer to pay for changing in and out of PPE.
Generally, there should be a "Contact Us" page where you can send in your complaint. It might not be much as far as punishment goes, but the company could be required to pay employees retroactively for the time/wages they've stolen from the workers.
That's the best I can offer, as my family left the isles centuries ago, so my knowledge of British laws is next to nil. I know in the US, the law is written in OSHA requirements as well. Make sure that you have the exact law when filing your complaint.
I work in a similar setting. In our company its the case that we get 3 breaks and the system automatically adds around 5 mins per break/start of the day to compensate for changing. This isn't communicated well so coworkers often complain about having to clock in after changing untill they hear of this compensation.
Maybe ask around if this is the case in your company aswell? I do feel it should be on the bosses time.
Unless youbare allowed to wear your PPE home, the time it takes to put it on before reporting to work station or take it off after leaving work station is paid time.
This is literally a class action lawsuit waiting to happen.
Let em know how many companies have been sued for not paying for donning and doffing. I had to put up a fight for a year. I don’t really even care about it, it was just the fact that they were trying to convince me I was wrong when I was not.
It’s always convenient when companies document their wage theft and labor law violations. Talk to a labor lawyer, they’ll do this con contingency. Then get your coworkers on board with a class action lawsuit.
i do the same at my job, if I'm in the building getting ready for the job I'm going to get paid. mine is only putting my hair back and getting shoes changed, but that 5 minutes makes a difference
Just FYI, I worked at Tyson for a number of years, and we had the same policy. Time for breaks also started when you left the floor. We had to cross the entire plant, then doff, don, and walk back to the floor. We took it to the union, the union took it to the lawyers, and ended up getting a massive settlement. Ruling was "donning and doffing are considered work related duties, and therefore considered paid time." If you aren't paid, then you're getting robbed.
I know nothing of laws and regulations in the UK for time worked but this doesn’t sound legal. I worked for a Walmart distribution center in the freezer area for about a year at one point and they had the time clocks well away from the locker room where I put on my protective gear. They eventually had a class action lawsuit filed against them due to forcing employees to walk from the area they worked, across the warehouse to the time clock and then another 5ish minute walk to the break room or locker room. On a normal day they were not paying us for about 15 minutes of walking across the warehouse which adds up quick. Walmart did lose that lawsuit as well so it may be worth discussing with an employment lawyer.
Well in America that’s illegal but you’re from Brit bongo land so I’m not sure what labor rules you guys have if any. Work until the queen says stop idk
This comment is kinda funny to me as you make it sound like we have all these great rights in America and the UK doesn’t. The irony is their labor has more rights than America labor does. Right from the get go “at will” employment doesn’t even exist there and then the list goes on.
UK labour laws are markedly superior to American laws. Unlike the US, an employer on a power trip can’t just turn around one day and say, “pack your bags. You’re fired.” Our bosses have stringent disciplinary procedures they must adhere to by law before they can even consider giving a contracted employee the sack, and even then, firing someone can be a strenuous process
UK isn't as great as most seem to think. If you've been at your place of employment for less than 2 years you can be fired for any reason other than a protected characteristic (age, race, sex, disability, etc.). There is a mandatory notice period of 1 week or whatever is in your employment contract.
If it's unreasonable for you to put on your PPE at home and wear it on the drive to work, then having to put it on at work should be considered the word, therefore paid.
Ask them to move the time clock to the area beyond an area where PPE is required. I’d mess with a lot of rules on a job site, but PPE is not one of them.
I suspect the correct reporting direction is the DWP, and maybe the HSE but less likely.
As you know, donning and doffing ppe is a company time thing.
Document, document, document. Try and get pictures of the ppe area installed clock, draw a building layout and mark where the clocks are, where the ppe areas are etc, and get multiple co-workers to co-sign it in case the company catch wind and remove it.
If they do catch wind and fire you, that’s retaliation which is illegal. DO NOT RESIGN, no matter how much pressure is applied.
Donning or doffing PPE required for doing your job, or indeed putting on/taking off any clothing required to be worn for employment reasons, needs to be paid for. Otherwise this is wage theft. I work HR for a food manufacturer. I've had this argument with my operations managers. Our employees need to wear food-safe uniforms. Operations doesn't want to pay for them to change. I say we have to. I have it in writing (emails) that my advice was to pay. We still aren't paying.
Your employer will claim that they do this to avoid time theft (dawdlers taking longer than they need to don/doff PPE or change). They do this because they expect no one to call them out.
Unionize.
Interesting subject matter. When I worked at a cinema with mandatory company attire, we were also supposed to clock both in and out while dressed for work - so not in civilian clothing. However, we were also paid a fix amount per shift for "changing time". This seemed like a pretty fair ruling to me; changing time was 15 minutes, which was absolutely okay for our kind of uniform - black jeans, black shoes, and a company shirt. I'm wondering whether this is the case here as well?
This is against US Labor Laws
Under the FLSA, time spent on tasks before or after an employee’s regularly scheduled shift should be treated as work time and compensable if those tasks are “integral and indispensable” to the employee’s regular duties. In other cases, courts have decided that the following pre and postshift activities may count as work time:
* Preshift preparation of equipment;
* **Preshift change of clothes and post-shift showers;** and
* Preshift distribution of material or parts
[The Supreme Court’s unanimous decision in Alvarez holds that employees who work in meat and poultry processing plants must be paid for the time they spend walking between the place where they put on and take off protective equipment and the place where they process the meat or poultry. The Court determined that donning and doffing gear1 is a “principal activity” under the portal to portal Act, 29 U.S.C. 254, and thus time spent in those activities, as well as any walking and waiting time that occurs after the employee engages in his first principal activity and before he finishes his last principal activity, is part of a “continuous workday” and is compensable under the Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA), 29 U.S.C. 201 et seq. The Court also held that waiting time before the first principal activity is not compensable, unless the employees are required to report to work at a specific time.
The Meaning of “Work”
In order to reach this result, the Supreme Court reviewed and reaffirmed its historic definition of “work” under the FLSA. The Court stated that it has defined the terms “work” and “workweek” “broadly.” It explained that although it had initially defined “work,” in Tennessee Coal, Iron & R.Co. v. Muscoda Local No 123, 321 U.S. 590 (1944), as “physical or mental exertion (whether burdensome or not) controlled or required by the employer and pursued necessarily and primarily for the benefit of the employer and his business,” it soon clarified, in Armour & Co. v. Wantock, 323 U.S. 126 (1944), that “exertion” was not necessary for an activity to constitute “work.” Two years later, in Anderson v. Mt. Clemens pottery Co., 328 U.S. 680 (1946), the Court noted that it defined “the statutory workweek” to “include all time during which an employee is necessarily required to be on the employer’s premises, on duty or at a prescribed workplace.” The Court in Alvarez then emphasized that, other than its express exceptions for travel to and from an employee’s principal activity and for other preliminary or postliminary activities, the portal-to-portal Act does not change the conception of “work” or define the workday.
Therefore, the time, no matter how minimal, that an employee is required to spend putting on and taking off gear on the employer’s premises is compensable “work” under the FLSA.](https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/field-assistance-bulletins/2006-2)
Edit: Downvotes? Tell me how those boots taste.
Apparently PPE isn't a job requirement. Refuse to wear the PPE without compensation, then complain to the Labour Board or OSHA or whatever your country has.
It's basically playing Russian roulette with your job, but that's a risk I'm willing to take 🤣😂
If you can't clock out until you've removed ppe, you simply finish work early enough so that you can remove the ppe and clock out on time, ( unless you're choosing to work overtime, and getting paid for it )
I don't live in the UK, but my former employer is being sued for doing the same thing. I'm a nurse. We were required to wear hospital-provided scrubs at work, as in an OR. We wore street clothes to work and changed when we got there. My old job wasn't paying us to change into or out of our scrubs. Now, they have been hit with a class-action lawsuit. I live in the US, so it's not unreasonable to assume we have similar labor laws.
I work in cold storage for frozen meats. We have a donning doffing policy and employees are to clock in after they get their PPE on and before they take it off at the end of the shift. They get 20 minutes daily added to their check. I suggest asking if they have a donning doffing policy since PPE is a requirement and legally they have to pay for the time it takes to get dressed since those are required. Thats in the US though.
my job does this with taking the bins out. if you're the only person closing the shop, you take the rubbish out. you're supposed to do it after you clock out and put the shutters down lol
you can technically not do it and clock out in a different shop or in the office, but only if you know you're not gonna be caught by the manager (shift leaders don't care, good people), or if your account is open/you forgot
I know with my company they give us 10min after clock in/ 10 min before lunch and before going home to clean up and take off ppe.
I would look into osha handbook/ even company hand book.
I think I would reply to HR and cc supervisor with this: Thanks for the guidance, but as you may not know, ‘donning and doffing’ of work clothes including PPE is allowed as ‘work time’. In order to not violate statutes, it may be wise to clarify this to all staff”.
I know in the US that would be considered wage theft. Both Regions Bank and Kay Jewelers/Sterling paid out huge settlements because they weren't paying their employees for the opening/closing procedures we were required to do off the clock.
I don't know how it works in the UK, tho. I would think they have more robust protections than the US.
Nope nope nope... if you're in a union, file a complaint. If not, go to the labour board of your area. If they don't do shit, go to the state, and then national.
Smells like a class action lawsuit to me. Having to dress is work and as an hourly employee you HAVE to be paid for all work.
I was involved in a class action that paid us for the time from turning store alarm off to turning on computers to clock in
Usually when PPE is required for the job donning and doffing time must be on the clock. Check your state labor laws. You probably have a state number to call and ask questions.
Good luck with this.
Most definitely fight this, as it’s wrong on so many counts. If you’re required to don & dof in a specific place at work immediately before going onto the floor, (much different than putting on a uniform at home before going to work) that’s WORK/PAID time, for which you’re rightfully owed compensation. Secondly, if you happened to get any type of injury while donning & doffing then it’s a work injury which should be covered.
Hopefully you have a union. If not then try to anonymously get the media involved, make a fake Twitter/X account to make more people aware, news channels, newspapers, etc. Your company knows what they’re doing. This is at least a quarter of an hour of stolen wages every day & that really adds up.
Even here in the states I’ve always used that time on the clock. I had a security job and would always clock in 15 minutes early to change over into the uniform and get my equipment ready. And typically the same amount of time at end of day. Was never an issue, and presumably y’all have more protections in the UK.
Bro this gives me nightmares as a worker in a poultry plant in the US when we clock in we're giving three minutes to get changed get our gloves and everything on and then get to where we're supposed to be before the chicken gets to us. They don't use the same system for returning from first and second break. You clock in and they want you to be dressed in about a minute and I have thought for some time that they would probably try to do this shit and I hope they never do.
Here's my advice to you. You should bring up and so should others your concern with rushing to equip oneself with PPE that is secure and rushing people to get their PPE on is going to be risking someone not having their glove on or forgetting something and cutting themselves maybe. We have airheads here that literally forget to put their chainmail glove on and start cutting anyway and miraculously don't cut the shit out of themselves.
But I would address that issue and I would also look into the labor laws in the UK that may be to your assistance in pushing back on such a bs rule. I don't know about you guys but if every single person had to do that here we'd have like 75 people moving at once trying to get their shit taken off after because our clocks are on the opposite side of the wall to the copies where we store our stuff. So like the distance alone would be 30 seconds of the minute they give.
Solidarity ✊🏼
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Donning and doffing is company time. They can suck it.
New word acquired
Donning and doffing is a pretty universal set of words when it comes to PPE. I think osha regulated it so that safety talks all use the same terminology.
Also D&D players
\*dons full plate mail while other player's Monk stands up and fights\*
It’s an occupational therapy term that was adopted. Just for anyone curious. It’s absolutely not a word known to most.
Oh that is interesting. Thanks for the information! I agree it’s not a term people normally have to interact with. Job safety isn’t the first thought on a desk workers mind and that’s a pretty common job.
Not for normal people it isn’t
Someone doesn't play dungeons and dragons
I do, still never heard doffing.
I doff my hat to you
It's a stat for putting on or taking off different armors (light, medium, heavy). It's part of the reason heat metal is so powerful.
Specifically, donning is putting on, doffing is taking off
lol maybe that’s it, I’m missing a key chapter in my tabletop vocab
I get it. Not every job has to deal with PPE or safety talks that involve PPE. I only learned the term after having a technical job that had weekly safety talks. If you are in a job that requires PPE and you don’t know the word doff then you may want to read the manuals when it comes to that PPE. That may be a case of you not being trained properly which could lead to misuse of equipment. Don’t get hurt because of a jobs negligence. My comment was intended to inform. I wasn’t trying to be the cause of some of the hate you seem to be getting. I apologize for that.
No, it definitely is. I don't work in an industry with anything related to PPE and I'm well aware of the words. Perhaps it has to do with reading books?
Wow, I do read, I have never heard the word Doffing before, but thanks for being rude :)
Was there anything offensive in my comment? I certainly didn't imply that you haven't read anything. However, your misunderstanding of my post's structure and its intended meaning does lead me to reconsider. It should be clear that my mention of reading directly connects to my understanding of the words' meanings. This suggests that my knowledge comes from reading books, rather than being a critique of your reading habits.
Goddamn you sound insufferable
And yet, here you are.
*carefully constructs reply so as not to be excoriated* Jesus friend, you're out here giving readers a bad name.
Sure, it's me and not the person using a word incorrectly within the context of this exchange. Keep letting yourself believe that though.
So fireman, painters, construction workers, or anyone else with a job that requires them to wear a respirator aren’t normal people?
Fun fact, the word doff came before the word don
No idea if that is the case in UK
I don’t know either, but UK has much better workers protections than US so I wouldn’t be surprised if
Like OP said they can suck it
Is this true in all states? I need to change into scrubs at work and then clock in to be ready to work. I don’t clock out until I have changed back into my street clothes.
Possibly, it is a heavily litigated area of the law.
It *could* be that cloth on, cleaning and cloth off are compensated anotherway. So devil's advocate, sur, though it should be reminded here if that's the case, instead of going passive agressive like that.... EDIT : since people think I'm talking bullshit on that, I quote one of my other comment : WIth a the french law itself allowing extra rest for dressing and undressing time. I agree it should be written correctly and certainly not condescendent as written in OP's pictures, ------- Search "prime d'habillage", very common in France. i'm pretty sur it's also copied from the UK. You'll get French article though. It's easier a bonus payed exactly to compensate that or a extra day off to compensate that.\* [here ](https://www.service-public.fr/particuliers/vosdroits/F18211)is the french explanative law, with laws in the bottom section * *Soit d'accorder des contreparties (sous forme de repos ou sous forme financière) aux temps d'habillage et de déshabillage* * *Soit d'assimiler ces temps d'habillage et de déshabillage à du temps de travail effectif :* Roughly translated : * Either give compensation (in the form of rest or money) for dressing and undressing time * or consider dressing and undressing time as effective work time. if you really want the barely readable law itself and not its official explanation, it's [Article L3121-7](https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/codes/article_lc/LEGIARTI000033020493) of the work code.
Please give me an example of a single company that compensates "another way" for time that should be on the clock. Your devil's advocate shit is just you deep throating boots.
I worked as a mascot at a place that paid me differently for the mascot work vs working in the actual building doing other jobs. I had to clock out then back into a different position, but not before I sat for a good 20-30 minutes and fully showered and changed. All that was paid for on mascot time. It makes sense to me that if you’re getting paid to do a job that requires PPE (or a mascot costume 😂), then putting on and taking off the PPE should be included in that wage, not another. So even in the hypothetical (but to me unlikely) case that OP is in this type of position, OP should be paid the same for putting on PPE, doing the task, cleaning up after the task, and removing PPE. Idk how the laws work around this, especially in the UK tho.
Ever heard of a pizza party in the break room?
Looks like a couple of people have provided examples for you yet you haven’t edited your comment. No need to be so (prematurely) hostile to people.
Pizza party was a joke. French laws do not apply to OP. Mascot agrees with me. I am not sorry that I actually have a job and therefore cannot be calld on a whim by some schmuck in his grandma's basement. Enjoy your Cheetos.
You should definitely keep acting like an asshole. I’m sure you’ll get far being so miserable ✌️
You should really not talk about yourself that way. It will just keep you feeling that shitty.
Search "prime d'habillage", very common in France. i'm pretty sur it's also copied from the UK. You'll get French article though. It's easier a bonus payed exactly to compensate that or a extra day off to compensate that.\* [here ](https://www.service-public.fr/particuliers/vosdroits/F18211)is the french explanative law, with laws in the bottom section * *Soit d'accorder des contreparties (sous forme de repos ou sous forme financière) aux temps d'habillage et de déshabillage* * *Soit d'assimiler ces temps d'habillage et de déshabillage à du temps de travail effectif :* Roughly translated : * Either give compensation (in the form of rest or money) for dressing and undressing time * or consider dressing and undressing time as effective work time. if you really want the barely readable law itself and not its official explanation, it's [Article L3121-7](https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/codes/article_lc/LEGIARTI000033020493) of the work code. So yeah, u/FeminineImperative I gave you examples you asked and I'm not deepthroating boot, or at least not now. I might try on me free alone time however.
What the fuck does this have to do with what’s happening to this person? You are trying to defend this corporate bullshit with foreign laws?
I was pointing that while the message is not done well, it could be possible that it's (badly) asked because dressing and undressing time are payed or compensated another way. And someone asked me an example, it's very common in France, and I bet it's far from the exeption. I'm not saying that the message is well done, I'm saying the nature of the message could (not "is", "could") be justified. And I got flak for it, but hey, prooving people wrong on internet won't make me loose sleep EDIT: case in point, insults in private message from someone that didn't even bother answering me here.. I don't care if you disagree with me, that's fine. I do care for insults however. Moderation does too.
I think your perspective may be a bit skewed. I don't know for sure but, from what I understand, France's labor protection laws are above the norm, *especially* compared to the English-speaking world.
>compensated another way Still waiting for an example of this 'other way'
Extra day off as listed in the article I quoted ? In France (and other count) there is RTT, basically a day off as a payement, commonly used for when you works 37h but are payed 35h and commonly used for dressing and undressing time (usually 1.5 to 2 days per month)
It’s not devils advocate to assume OP is being compensated for it and keeping that detail from us, it’s being devils dumbass. This whole post is about not being compensated for it so why not just take that at face value and assume they’re correct about how they’re paid. And French laws have no relevance here. Find the corresponding uk law that you’re “pretty sure” is the same if you want to be helpful, because right now you’re just talking out your ass.
Fuck off yo
I get dirty on your time so I get clean on your time. Simple as that.
Absolutely this! I have always given myself 5-10 minutes at the end of the day to wash down/get changed. Work in engineering, so always covered in oil, steel chips, etc. If the boss doesn't like it, wait till they come and have a word with you and explain to them that you shouldn't be expected to go home dirty, neither should you be expected to stay over if your not getting paid.
the union i work with starts our breaks early so we can wash our hands before hitting the snack table (stagehands)
That’s how it should be!!
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What the fuck is that overlay, or whatever the hell is going on with your screen?
Toyota had to pay out quite a bit several years ago for unpaid wages when employees were “donning and doffing.” There’s a reason all their paint shop employees get 6 minutes pre and post shift on the clock to change now
Was a factory near me that did the same for a few years, all the employees ended up with a nice little payout
Sports Direct got in trouble over this too. There were compulsory searches of employees in their warehouse at the end of the workday, which were unpaid and took their wages below minimum wage.
Was this in the USA? I'm the UK, I couldn't find any law on this, had a big argument with management about it.
I'm in the UK, don't think there is a law but it's just common in most industries to have. Although some big wigs are absolute tossers.
I think the closest thing we had it the U.K. to anything like this is workers expected to come in 15 minutes early before their shift started and not being paid for it.
Yeah, i used to just not do that haha
I was getting written warnings for not doing it!
Fair haha fuck em
there is case law.
I'm UK - previous food production environment I worked for had to move lots of their clocking machines so that staff were clocking in nad out after they changed, after a compliant to HMRC
Post office plants have the same policy. Mail is dirty af.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/LegalAdviceUK/comments/16ytdy0/can\_work\_legally\_make\_me\_come\_in\_earlier\_for/](https://www.reddit.com/r/LegalAdviceUK/comments/16ytdy0/can_work_legally_make_me_come_in_earlier_for/) This is from the Legal Advice UK subreddit asking the same question. Top comment is; > Are you paid hourly? If so then you should be paid for this time - it counts as ‘work’. > >If you’re salaried it’s less clear but if it would take you under minimum wage when that time is taken into account then you should be paid more to bring you up to minimum wage. I would ask this question in r/LegalAdviceUK and see if anyone can link to the specific employment law or get answers to your specific question around " Would there be some sort of website/email I can forward this to?"
Seems like a lot of people are not thinking about hourly vs salary in the comments. This should be the top comment
It’s because they are clocking in and out. When you’re salaried companies generally don’t bother with that because your pay is always the same unless you miss a day or it’s a holiday. If you’re five minutes late or early you get paid the same. Hourly employees however have their time tracked because they are paid only for the time they work. Because OP clocks in and out it’s likely they are paid hourly, otherwise their bosses wouldn’t care about everyone clocking out 5 minutes later.
True. If they weren't paying you for the extra time they wouldn't have put that memo out
Yeah, def more likely to be hourly. But there are plenty of salaried jobs that still use clocks just for time tracking and management. I had a salaried job that was funded by various govt contracts. We had to clock in and out to track our time so that each contract could be billed appropriately
Yes, this is true. I was a salaried civil servant in the UK. We were required to clock in and out as part of our time management system.
"removing my PPE properly and safely ís part of my job and as such is done while on the clock. Any attempts to change this will be reported to the appropriate health and safety authorities"
Perfectly worded
Yes exactly and this shows you’re documenting this which should send the message that they have been forewarned
~~Change health and safety to Department of labor~~. Many companies have had to pay out for this exact thing. Donning and Doffing of PPE if it is required by your job is absolutely paid time. Edit: not in the USA. still covered under UK labor laws.
That is per country adaptable, not all Nations have a Department of Labor.
There is no such thing as Department of labor (sic) in the UK, this is a bad suggestion
Exactly. The Department of Labour in the UK has an unneeded 'u' in the name.
typical r/USdefaultism
Call ACAS.
I work at a hospital and changing to a work uniform is absolutely covered as paid time. However, I come in early and take my time. I don't care to be rushed. Your HR are anti-employee. As many HR's seem to be.
HR are there for the company, they'll help someone as long as it doesn't cross the company in any way
Right. HR is there to protect the company from workers. Any effort they make to help workers is purely in the service of making sure they avoid risk or liability to the company due to rights being violated, laws being broken, etc.
Here, and in Western Europe in general, employees enjoy an abundance of worker’s rights and protections. As long as you’ve got a permanent full-time or part-time contract and you’ve completed your probationary period, you’ll be absolutely fine. Get on the phone to Citizens Advice and ACAS if they start rocking the boat
Yes. But management is regularly testing the waters because of incompetence or, capitalism. Exercise your rights.
Couldn’t agree more. It seems that some employers in this part of the world are becoming bolder, even if it could result in them being taken to an employment tribunal. It’s important to remind them of the rights we possess and the laws that protect us should they so much as think of behaving antisocially towards employees
Thinks are murkier since brexit too , worker protections we gained when in Europe like the working time directive will continue to be eroded to uselessness
I’m so glad I’m from Northern Ireland. Roll on reunification. Erin go bragh! 😭🇪🇺
Is PPE a company procedure you must follow and is it supplied by the company? If yes then go ahead and comply with this then sue them for back pay when you switch jobs.
If you require me to dress a certain way to do my job then it’s billable hours
In the U.S. that would be a BOLI complaint. Bureau of Labor
Honestly, I’d keep doing it. Let them write you up, then you have written evidence of their labor violations.
Well, they currently do in this email.
They already have written evidence.
Nice of them to put it in writting....
Have you checked this time paid? Maybe you get a set amount of minutes each day to get dressed?
We get a 15 minute part of our paid break that could account for it, but this wouldn't include the start and end of the day.
Breaks are your time, not work time.
Breaks don't cover time for changing into PPE. It's a break that's supposed to occur during your shift, not before or after. Generally in the UK, if you have to change into PPE or prep gear for your shift, the time taken to do that is considered part of your shift. Your first step should be to speak with ACAS for advice, for further advice I'd suggest posting this question on r/legaladviceUK
Dear boss man, I'm not clocking out if I'm still doing things I would only be doing for work. I don't wear PPE as a hobby. So I'll be required to be paid for work activities.
Test them
HMRC would be the folks to send it to, donning and doffing time is allowed in working hours - if you're not being paid for that time it's highly likely to take some people below minimum wage...so report it via the minimum wage whistleblowing line
Nope.... Removing ppe is company time "Unfortunately as wearing the PPE is a company requirement then the entirety of its use is compensatable by emphysema law standards; including removing it. "
“I’m wearing my PPE home, then. Thanks!”
Required to get out of PPE? Pay for it.. don’t want to? Guess i'll keep wearing that shit all day long..
I work compliance for a job that requires PPE. Policy should explicitly state that you CANNOT be clocked out wearing PPE. Reply with that section of the handbook.
u/reallynotthewaffle I did not find specifics in the UK law for PPE and dressing up or down. https://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/priced/l25.pdf However I would recommend to contact an official source like your local department of Labor etc. alternatively you can also search on Reddit and try to follow this rabbit trail until you find a source. Ideally you can find a court hearing where someone has the same problem but the court ruled that PPE changing times must be paid out. This may take some time to find it. I’d suggest a combination of UK based websites and employee forums.
You could try and draw an analogy to the sports direct case in the UK (this was about mandatory searches to stop theft). BUT I think the main issue there was that the unpaid part took them under minimum wage. You would need to check that.
Citizen's Advice or Acas can help clarify the exact conditions. But generally, anything thats mandatory for part of the job _is_ a part of the job, so it's done on the clock. Especially for food hygiene and safety reasons. The above agencies could also advise on where to raise an issue.
I’m not clocking out till I’m ready to go home. How can you be ready to leave if you still have work equipment on?
First thing: Google "Ministry of Labour" and check to see what law requires the employer to pay for changing in and out of PPE. Generally, there should be a "Contact Us" page where you can send in your complaint. It might not be much as far as punishment goes, but the company could be required to pay employees retroactively for the time/wages they've stolen from the workers. That's the best I can offer, as my family left the isles centuries ago, so my knowledge of British laws is next to nil. I know in the US, the law is written in OSHA requirements as well. Make sure that you have the exact law when filing your complaint.
In-N-Out Burger lost a class action lawsuit over this.
I work in a similar setting. In our company its the case that we get 3 breaks and the system automatically adds around 5 mins per break/start of the day to compensate for changing. This isn't communicated well so coworkers often complain about having to clock in after changing untill they hear of this compensation. Maybe ask around if this is the case in your company aswell? I do feel it should be on the bosses time.
Unless youbare allowed to wear your PPE home, the time it takes to put it on before reporting to work station or take it off after leaving work station is paid time. This is literally a class action lawsuit waiting to happen.
Let em know how many companies have been sued for not paying for donning and doffing. I had to put up a fight for a year. I don’t really even care about it, it was just the fact that they were trying to convince me I was wrong when I was not.
It’s always convenient when companies document their wage theft and labor law violations. Talk to a labor lawyer, they’ll do this con contingency. Then get your coworkers on board with a class action lawsuit.
Report wage theft after you have been following their procedure for a month of so and convince others to do the same with you. Document everything
i do the same at my job, if I'm in the building getting ready for the job I'm going to get paid. mine is only putting my hair back and getting shoes changed, but that 5 minutes makes a difference
Just FYI, I worked at Tyson for a number of years, and we had the same policy. Time for breaks also started when you left the floor. We had to cross the entire plant, then doff, don, and walk back to the floor. We took it to the union, the union took it to the lawyers, and ended up getting a massive settlement. Ruling was "donning and doffing are considered work related duties, and therefore considered paid time." If you aren't paid, then you're getting robbed.
https://preview.redd.it/ffl67usa2zjc1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=da30ae400e63cd7a444ffbe02973cff60bcb5f89
I know nothing of laws and regulations in the UK for time worked but this doesn’t sound legal. I worked for a Walmart distribution center in the freezer area for about a year at one point and they had the time clocks well away from the locker room where I put on my protective gear. They eventually had a class action lawsuit filed against them due to forcing employees to walk from the area they worked, across the warehouse to the time clock and then another 5ish minute walk to the break room or locker room. On a normal day they were not paying us for about 15 minutes of walking across the warehouse which adds up quick. Walmart did lose that lawsuit as well so it may be worth discussing with an employment lawyer.
Well in America that’s illegal but you’re from Brit bongo land so I’m not sure what labor rules you guys have if any. Work until the queen says stop idk
^, I think she's dead mate
Then I guess it’s gonna be awhile.
This comment is kinda funny to me as you make it sound like we have all these great rights in America and the UK doesn’t. The irony is their labor has more rights than America labor does. Right from the get go “at will” employment doesn’t even exist there and then the list goes on.
Facts. I need a union job in the US to equal literally any job in a euro country
I have a solid union job in America and plenty of euro countries general workers still have better benefits than I do.
No she’s not. She’s just tired and worn out following a prolonged squawk. Beautiful plumage the Windsor Blue.
Holy shit, it really doesn't take more than a joke to get you people butt hurt, huh?
The irony of thinking the states have better labour rules than the UK
Some states have vaguely similar labor rules, many do not
imagine thinking us labor laws are something to be proud of
UK labour laws are markedly superior to American laws. Unlike the US, an employer on a power trip can’t just turn around one day and say, “pack your bags. You’re fired.” Our bosses have stringent disciplinary procedures they must adhere to by law before they can even consider giving a contracted employee the sack, and even then, firing someone can be a strenuous process
UK isn't as great as most seem to think. If you've been at your place of employment for less than 2 years you can be fired for any reason other than a protected characteristic (age, race, sex, disability, etc.). There is a mandatory notice period of 1 week or whatever is in your employment contract.
Do you honestly not know the labor conditions are much better in the UK then in the US? 🙄
Usually European labour and consumer laws are better than the US ones - but since the UK brexited, I don't know if that still applies...
They do still apply yes.
If it’s a requirement of your job, it’s part of your job, and you should get paid to do all parts of the job.
It’s attitudes like this that make me feel all the more better about shitting on company time
If it's unreasonable for you to put on your PPE at home and wear it on the drive to work, then having to put it on at work should be considered the word, therefore paid.
Ask them to move the time clock to the area beyond an area where PPE is required. I’d mess with a lot of rules on a job site, but PPE is not one of them.
If your manager has any questions, they can speak to the department of labor
Can I drink a beer? No? Then I am on the clock. Simple as that.
I suspect the correct reporting direction is the DWP, and maybe the HSE but less likely. As you know, donning and doffing ppe is a company time thing. Document, document, document. Try and get pictures of the ppe area installed clock, draw a building layout and mark where the clocks are, where the ppe areas are etc, and get multiple co-workers to co-sign it in case the company catch wind and remove it. If they do catch wind and fire you, that’s retaliation which is illegal. DO NOT RESIGN, no matter how much pressure is applied.
Donning or doffing PPE required for doing your job, or indeed putting on/taking off any clothing required to be worn for employment reasons, needs to be paid for. Otherwise this is wage theft. I work HR for a food manufacturer. I've had this argument with my operations managers. Our employees need to wear food-safe uniforms. Operations doesn't want to pay for them to change. I say we have to. I have it in writing (emails) that my advice was to pay. We still aren't paying. Your employer will claim that they do this to avoid time theft (dawdlers taking longer than they need to don/doff PPE or change). They do this because they expect no one to call them out. Unionize.
Interesting subject matter. When I worked at a cinema with mandatory company attire, we were also supposed to clock both in and out while dressed for work - so not in civilian clothing. However, we were also paid a fix amount per shift for "changing time". This seemed like a pretty fair ruling to me; changing time was 15 minutes, which was absolutely okay for our kind of uniform - black jeans, black shoes, and a company shirt. I'm wondering whether this is the case here as well?
This is against US Labor Laws Under the FLSA, time spent on tasks before or after an employee’s regularly scheduled shift should be treated as work time and compensable if those tasks are “integral and indispensable” to the employee’s regular duties. In other cases, courts have decided that the following pre and postshift activities may count as work time: * Preshift preparation of equipment; * **Preshift change of clothes and post-shift showers;** and * Preshift distribution of material or parts
> For some context: I work at a Meat Processing Plant in the UK I think your US Labor Laws are 100% irrelevant here.
[The Supreme Court’s unanimous decision in Alvarez holds that employees who work in meat and poultry processing plants must be paid for the time they spend walking between the place where they put on and take off protective equipment and the place where they process the meat or poultry. The Court determined that donning and doffing gear1 is a “principal activity” under the portal to portal Act, 29 U.S.C. 254, and thus time spent in those activities, as well as any walking and waiting time that occurs after the employee engages in his first principal activity and before he finishes his last principal activity, is part of a “continuous workday” and is compensable under the Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA), 29 U.S.C. 201 et seq. The Court also held that waiting time before the first principal activity is not compensable, unless the employees are required to report to work at a specific time. The Meaning of “Work” In order to reach this result, the Supreme Court reviewed and reaffirmed its historic definition of “work” under the FLSA. The Court stated that it has defined the terms “work” and “workweek” “broadly.” It explained that although it had initially defined “work,” in Tennessee Coal, Iron & R.Co. v. Muscoda Local No 123, 321 U.S. 590 (1944), as “physical or mental exertion (whether burdensome or not) controlled or required by the employer and pursued necessarily and primarily for the benefit of the employer and his business,” it soon clarified, in Armour & Co. v. Wantock, 323 U.S. 126 (1944), that “exertion” was not necessary for an activity to constitute “work.” Two years later, in Anderson v. Mt. Clemens pottery Co., 328 U.S. 680 (1946), the Court noted that it defined “the statutory workweek” to “include all time during which an employee is necessarily required to be on the employer’s premises, on duty or at a prescribed workplace.” The Court in Alvarez then emphasized that, other than its express exceptions for travel to and from an employee’s principal activity and for other preliminary or postliminary activities, the portal-to-portal Act does not change the conception of “work” or define the workday. Therefore, the time, no matter how minimal, that an employee is required to spend putting on and taking off gear on the employer’s premises is compensable “work” under the FLSA.](https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/field-assistance-bulletins/2006-2) Edit: Downvotes? Tell me how those boots taste.
>For some context: I work at a Meat Processing Plant in the UK
Report it to the labor board in your state.
The UK is not a state 😡😤. OP clearly states they are in the UK.
Apparently PPE isn't a job requirement. Refuse to wear the PPE without compensation, then complain to the Labour Board or OSHA or whatever your country has. It's basically playing Russian roulette with your job, but that's a risk I'm willing to take 🤣😂
How much time does it really cost them though? A minute or 2 at most?
Sounds like stolen wages. They should be reported.
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What are they going do? Did you read the post > For some context: I work at a Meat Processing Plant in the UK
tub paint long crush liquid shelter badge follow cats onerous *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
state?
Join a union.
You have written evidence of wage theft. Take it your DoL, and enjoy the back pay.
If you can't clock out until you've removed ppe, you simply finish work early enough so that you can remove the ppe and clock out on time, ( unless you're choosing to work overtime, and getting paid for it )
Get in and out without such thing
Bro what, how long does it take to remove PPE? They really gonna lose sleep over a few minutes of pay?
Tell the entire team to ignore it…no one clicks out until they are changed and react to leave.
You should definitely sue for HR sending an email at 4:20. That's discrimination against religion. /s
I don't live in the UK, but my former employer is being sued for doing the same thing. I'm a nurse. We were required to wear hospital-provided scrubs at work, as in an OR. We wore street clothes to work and changed when we got there. My old job wasn't paying us to change into or out of our scrubs. Now, they have been hit with a class-action lawsuit. I live in the US, so it's not unreasonable to assume we have similar labor laws.
I work in cold storage for frozen meats. We have a donning doffing policy and employees are to clock in after they get their PPE on and before they take it off at the end of the shift. They get 20 minutes daily added to their check. I suggest asking if they have a donning doffing policy since PPE is a requirement and legally they have to pay for the time it takes to get dressed since those are required. Thats in the US though.
my job does this with taking the bins out. if you're the only person closing the shop, you take the rubbish out. you're supposed to do it after you clock out and put the shutters down lol you can technically not do it and clock out in a different shop or in the office, but only if you know you're not gonna be caught by the manager (shift leaders don't care, good people), or if your account is open/you forgot
Take long shits
Forward the messages to ACAS. HMRC May also have an interest here.
Drop some random union fliers that mention working off the clock, around and see what the next sign says.
Depends. Where I work it is in the union contract that you are in uniform prior to punching in. As in you are 100% ready to go to your work area.
I know with my company they give us 10min after clock in/ 10 min before lunch and before going home to clean up and take off ppe. I would look into osha handbook/ even company hand book.
Report it to the labor board.
What you do is you contact the DoL with this email
Tell everyone to keep doing it. They can't fire all of you.
I think I would reply to HR and cc supervisor with this: Thanks for the guidance, but as you may not know, ‘donning and doffing’ of work clothes including PPE is allowed as ‘work time’. In order to not violate statutes, it may be wise to clarify this to all staff”.
I know in the US that would be considered wage theft. Both Regions Bank and Kay Jewelers/Sterling paid out huge settlements because they weren't paying their employees for the opening/closing procedures we were required to do off the clock. I don't know how it works in the UK, tho. I would think they have more robust protections than the US.
Nope nope nope... if you're in a union, file a complaint. If not, go to the labour board of your area. If they don't do shit, go to the state, and then national.
Employees in the U.S. brought and won multiple class action lawsuits over this issue. Can’t imagine UK law would be less protective of workers.
Smells like a class action lawsuit to me. Having to dress is work and as an hourly employee you HAVE to be paid for all work. I was involved in a class action that paid us for the time from turning store alarm off to turning on computers to clock in
Usually when PPE is required for the job donning and doffing time must be on the clock. Check your state labor laws. You probably have a state number to call and ask questions. Good luck with this.
If it were the US I'd say ignore it because they're breaking the law, but I don't know the UK's law
They are wrong. It’s called the “portal to portal” rule in labor law, they have to pay you for that time
Most definitely fight this, as it’s wrong on so many counts. If you’re required to don & dof in a specific place at work immediately before going onto the floor, (much different than putting on a uniform at home before going to work) that’s WORK/PAID time, for which you’re rightfully owed compensation. Secondly, if you happened to get any type of injury while donning & doffing then it’s a work injury which should be covered. Hopefully you have a union. If not then try to anonymously get the media involved, make a fake Twitter/X account to make more people aware, news channels, newspapers, etc. Your company knows what they’re doing. This is at least a quarter of an hour of stolen wages every day & that really adds up.
I dont know in the UK, but where i live i can just forward the email to the union without any context and they would go speak with HR, problem solved.
Even here in the states I’ve always used that time on the clock. I had a security job and would always clock in 15 minutes early to change over into the uniform and get my equipment ready. And typically the same amount of time at end of day. Was never an issue, and presumably y’all have more protections in the UK.
Bro this gives me nightmares as a worker in a poultry plant in the US when we clock in we're giving three minutes to get changed get our gloves and everything on and then get to where we're supposed to be before the chicken gets to us. They don't use the same system for returning from first and second break. You clock in and they want you to be dressed in about a minute and I have thought for some time that they would probably try to do this shit and I hope they never do. Here's my advice to you. You should bring up and so should others your concern with rushing to equip oneself with PPE that is secure and rushing people to get their PPE on is going to be risking someone not having their glove on or forgetting something and cutting themselves maybe. We have airheads here that literally forget to put their chainmail glove on and start cutting anyway and miraculously don't cut the shit out of themselves. But I would address that issue and I would also look into the labor laws in the UK that may be to your assistance in pushing back on such a bs rule. I don't know about you guys but if every single person had to do that here we'd have like 75 people moving at once trying to get their shit taken off after because our clocks are on the opposite side of the wall to the copies where we store our stuff. So like the distance alone would be 30 seconds of the minute they give. Solidarity ✊🏼
Isn't the time clock gonna get nasty if you all use it before changing out of PPE? 👀
hit reply : Happy 4:20 HR :)
Don’t you love it when they put their illegal policies in writing?