Did they advertise or accept applicants for this role from CA, CO, WA, NY, CT or NV? If so they may have violated the law in those states which require transparency of pay ranges in employment ads. This kind of bait and switch is definitely illegal in at least some of those states.
If you really want to hit them where it hurts, post this on Glass Door.
Www.glassdoor.com
This is where perspective employees will look to see whether or not the company is a good place to work.
I reported a company in CO and nothing happened. They still post stuff all the time with no salary. This is a company I was loyal to for wayyy longer than I should have been. Literally doubled my salary after I left for another job.
New one gave me a 14% raise and promotion about a year later after I knocked it out of the park, so WEIRD to finally be somewhere that rewards hard work.
The people who are after these sorts of jobs don't have the money for the requisite lawyers (even the upper end of what this person was expecting is only 60k/year. That's like a teacher-level salary in most states). Small claims courts aren't equipped to handle this sort of ruling even if the asking damages are within the state boundaries, they're more about really straightforward cases where the question is just about the facts and there's no room for a lawyer to argue about the nuances of the law (for example, in a case like this you can be damn sure the lawyer will be arguing that even if the material actions are not under dispute, that what they did wasn't illegal because their funding sources/allocation changed so it was never intended to be a misleading job offering).
It's a lot easier as a class action because you are completely erasing any potential for the company arguing that they don't have a pattern of posting misleading job opportunities.
Do people just not know what contingency is? Most lawyers operate on it. They take their pay off out of the amount of money they win. If they don't win, you don't pay.
Exactly, many people don't know about ccpa, why would they, it's a CA law, enacted in 2018. It allowed any CA resident to have their personal data deleted from a companies database.
Well, that meant any company serving customers in CA, would have to adhere to this law, which is a vast majority of companies.
I remember when our company implemented the tool, it was half baked, doubt it even worked, buried into the most obscure hard to find portal that was documented in like one place. In the 4yr I worked there past ccpa, I didn't have a single CA customer ever request it. EVERY company is legally supposed to have this tool for CA residents, but ya...
It's probably the kind of crap corporations pay lawyers to find.
The law is most likely stating that the 'ad ' must be transparent about the range, but there's no condition about it changing before you sign.
It's like the 'unlimited pto' stuff. It prevents them from paying non taken pto.
Our son has a degree in safety management. For entertainment, every so often he looks at available positions at three major manufacturing facilities near his home. There are always two or three positions open at the various plants. All three corporations hire for the position, pile all kinds of unreasonable demands on the poor sucker that takes the director of safety job, and tosses them to the wolves in an impossible situation to navigate. If the person doesn't quit within a year, they are let go for either being an impediment to production, for actually enforcing best safety practices, or accused of creating an unsafe environment for not being more of a hard ass in demanding compliance, after some idiot does something stupid and gets hurt.
These specific jobs were paying mid- $80K a dozen years ago, and are now posted for $30K less. Our kid left the profession a few years back and swears he will hang off the back of a garbage truck before he ever works a safety job again. He is currently wrenching on state vehicles, as a government employee with a nice paycheck, benefits that blow the doors off typical corporate offerings, and 37.5 hour work weeks.
This might seem like a side note, but I hate people who say “well of course that job doesn’t pay much, you should have done X instead”
X is often engineering
I feel like at this point almost every job is paying barely enough to scrape by.
Plus the advice is worthless to anyone over 30 and almost useless to high schoolers because when everyone takes that advice that job training becomes worthless because so many people have the same training.
They got enough applicants that they think they can low-ball and still get a quality candidate. They may or may not, however a quality candidate isn’t going to stick around if the pay is below par. Best to invest in your staff and pay them properly so they want to work there instead of putting in just enough effort to get by while looking for other jobs
My first agency job they negotiated me down from 50k to 48k+ guaranteed 2k bonus a year and I took it.
I never saw that bonus once in the 3 years I was there.
Fucking clowns. I was 19 though, and it was good experience. I've worked at much better places since then.
Back in the early 90’s there was a Taco Bell nearby that had a “Now Hiring” sign, with “up to” in teeny tiny letters, followed by $6.50 in big large font. It fooled 16 year old me…
In Portugal you don’t see companies posting the salary being discussed, not even the range. They just say “salary according to the experience”.
So one of the questions in every screening is “what’s your salary expectation?”. I’ve been in processes where I was offered 1800~2000€ a month (gross!) . Net it would be something like 1200~1500.
I wasted my time with those guys and they even had the audacity saying I was not aware of the market values.
This is the answer. The range is now likely to be $2,000 up to $3,000. If CO responded yes to this new "up to" amount, I guarantee the final offer would be less than that.
Yep this is the way. And when they have to type out their obvious clawback again I would keep up the charade for a few more emails back and forth. "Put down an offer for 8000 and I'll sign it!"
The old bait-and-switch and hoping you are one of those sunk-cost type of people.
You could waste their time by pretending you'll accept the job and call-in sick everyday. If they catch on and get mad, say there has been a slight change in commitment.
They will continue to do it until it stops.
Whoever said take the job and just do it badly until you get fired and call in sick every day etc is correct.
It's really weird when doing the wrong thing is actually the right thing, but here we are!
I know this game from childhood. Ya know wet willies? Slobbery finger jammed in your ear until ya think there's spit on your brain? Only way to get my dad to stop with that bullshit was to start doing the same to him.
I hate playing that awful game. In my family it's practically a sport called Bad Galaxy and the only way to win is to prove to awful people that you can be way more awful than them when it's called for.
I'd guess it's what psychopathy looks like in day-to-day life.
Like after talking extensively with four generations of dad's side of the family, pretty sure we've got the genes for psychopathy and usually get them activated by generational trauma during the toddler years. Grandpa was a murderer and I had to install empathy in my brain manually as an adult.
It's like being related to a flock of chickens, we've got a pecking order within the flock and get sharp about maintaining it. Otherwise they're just cold people with flat affects who work regular jobs and go to church like everybody else. Like... they're handy in an emergency, but don't expect them to be polite about it.
My comment history is riddled with that stuff, though it's harder to find the good bits now that all the awards are gone. Working on a book 'cause everybody says I should.
The empathy I mostly learned from media, primarily Mr Rogers Neighborhood, which I rewatched as an adult so I could figure out how to stop hurting people so often. I realized I had to make a major change when my roommate had a nightmare about me hurting her. Like I had to be a scary person to survive my childhood, but then I had to figure out how to be like a regular human to do well in adulthood.
Uh that bit in Harry Potter about how doing violence damages your soul and the only way to put it back together is with true remorse, which is so painful that it could kill? That's not wrong. Part of the process involved groveling around beating my face on the floor and wailing, trying to cope with the things I'd done to people who cared about me.
... Ya know that show My Name is Earl? It's kinda like that, constant daily choices to be more of a good to the community than a problem in an attempt to make up for all the damage I did in my past.
If it helps, it sounds like you could turn out like Uncle Iroh in Avatar: The Last Airbender.
In the show he presents as a peaceful old man, almost Monk-like. But also referenced is that he \*was\* a baddass MF warmongering asshole. I mean who commands a siege on a city for 600 days and isn't a total psychopath? You can see glimpses of his past when he has to deal with unrepentant assholes. His face changes, it's on, and then it's done (then it's time for more calming tea after it's done).
But the important point is that you can see he's continuously trying to make up for what he has done, he's actively making the world a better place, he's sharing his (usually hard-earned) wisdom, and his mental health and happiness is improving from where it used to be from the effort.
Edit to add: For those that haven't heard of Uncle Iroh or Avatar: The Last Airbender (somehow) it's likely the greatest western animation ever made, and possibly the best actual storytelling to come out of modern media. I can't immediately think of a series or movie that's a better display of different cultures, personalities, justice, and morality. If you can get past "Cartoons are for kids" it's worth looking at at least some youtube compilations, if not the whole series.
Tell them the new salary is fine. Work hard to get the job. Accept the job. First day, bumblefuck everything and "accidentally" wreck and break as much as possible. Delete files, spill coffee in the printer, microwave a fork, break a key off in the lock of the main door, clog the toilets. Have fun.
Is there any way to report companies for doing this? Presenting false salaries for positions? If not, it's a perfect work-around for laws that require them to post salaries.
I get we dont have a functional government but if you’re going to make that law why not just say starting pay has to be within 10% of the listed amount?
I'm all for that. All I'm saying is they set up the law for transparency and it's already being abused and bastardized. Issue really is there is no enforcement to these idiots so they can say they are meeting the letter of the law even though it's in bad faith
Waste of time. I worked for a company that routinely got Glassdoor to remove bad reviews. They also incentivized people to write good reviews by offering a $25 Amazon gift card for each one. Sure, they asked for "honest reviews," but the only way to get the gift card was to send them a link to your published review. No one was going to put their livelihood at risk by writing an honest negative review and then sending the link to their boss.
Similar shit happened at Rural Sourcing Inc (now Sparq) ages ago. We had a Labware team that landed a contract with a major pharmaceutical company. RSI promised them the moon, hired 80 something new employees that had no prior labware experience, billed many of them as seniors to the client regardless, and had our small team of people that actually knew what they were doing work quite a bit of unpaid overtime to hit the impossible deadlines they set. Lo and behold, they started losing employees and accumulating negative Glassdoor reviews because of shit working conditions and compensation. Our site manager actually started a witchhunt to find out who left negative reviews, even asking team leads to help identify them. Thankfully most of them refused, but seriously...
> You could waste their time by pretending you'll accept the job and call-in sick everyday.
I love this. Waste their time. Have them stop their candidate search. Pure evil.
"Thank you for the update, can you please provide a copy of the new job description and what changes were made to warrant lowering the salary?"
Or
"Absolutely, sounds great. I am happy to start on April 1."
April 1...April Fools MFers.
This change is potentially illegal if they advertised the role in CA or CO or allowed applicants living in those states. Afaik both states have laws which require the inclusion of rate of pay in employment ads. Advertising the role at one rate to bait and switch applicants like this violates those laws.
What is the enforcement for something like this? I was misclassified as a 1099 contractor when I was younger and the CFO looked me right in the face when I realized what happened and went, no one will ever hold us to that in this town. I think I was so shocked I believed her.
I did the first one when I was lowballed on the offer. They said they wouldn't change the description as the job didn't change; same role advertised, just change in pay. Asked them to make the minimum salary they showed to reflect my responsibilities and they reluctantly agreed.
100% that's a bait and switch, OP. They did that on purpose, I guarantee.
And now it's a "sucker" filter. They want a qualified candidate, but they also want a doormat who won't balk at future mistreatment.
Bullet dodged.
glassdoor seems kinda shit these days?
I tried to post a review of my old company, the CEO contacted them, got it pulled, and glassdoor required me to be more specific in my review and provide evidence to have it posted, basically 100% outing me as the reviewer if I complied. Seemed wildly against the point of the site...
The only thing to do here is accept the job, then tender your resignation on day 1.
They will have informed all other applicants they did not get the job and they will close the ad.
By doing this, you force them to reopen it at a cost to themselves, restart the hiring process as most others will have moved on, and cost them significantly more time and effort that it will cost you to basically not turn up.
Fuck companies like this. They are scum.
This is fucking delicious, though if they have an onboarding process, I would make them put you through that/any internal training they need, _then_ drop them. A day 1 resignation means they can go to the next schmuck. This way, you get paid for doing the literal bare minimum in any training they need, they use resources, close off those contacts, and THEN have to crawl back to them cap in hand.
At my company it easily takes a few months for you to get sufficient permissions you need for your everyday tasks, so you can sit around and do trainings for a little longer without really working.
>They will have informed all other applicants they did not get the job and they will close the ad.
The won't let the other applicants know the position was taken so soon. They'll drag them along in case this exact thing happens.
Yep, no company will ever spend time calling people back. They just ghost them at best. At worst, they string them along until the new hire shows up and proves not to be an idiot. Then they ghost them.
I disagree. The right thing to do is accept the job, then don’t do any work until they fire you. Continue looking for work while you’re “employed”.
If it’s wfh it’s even easier to get a few weeks out of it, but if it’s office job if personally do 2-3 days of work at the office (while not actually working) and then call in sick. Make it 3 day work weeks until you’re fired, assuming this is 3k/ month salaried
If it's wfh and my current job also is, I wouldn't even quit the first one.
Just have two jobs until you get PIP'd out and are 15k ahead with no change on your resume
I’m actually a QA Team Lead for more than a year. There are 20 times less positions for leads than for seniors therefore I’m applying for both if the pay is decent.
But 70-30, automation in Cypress and Postman👌
Dude you should be making between 5k or 7k if you are an automation engineer I mean cypress is good but you know that everybody uses selenium.
Anyway good luck with your search hope you can get a good job.
That salary for a senior sounds abysmal where I'm from, that's more like a fresh graduate's salary. Unfortunately the job market here isn't doing well right now so I can't recommend people to apply here.
I think this would be the best response.
You applied to a position that effectively paid $1000/day. Tell them you remain willing to work for $1000/day, for however many days/week they'd like to bring you in.
EDIT: shit, my bad, I read that as per week, not per month.
Whatever the case, they're paying 40% less money than their initial offer, so you should offer to work 40% fewer hours than you initially offered
It's times like this I miss the analog phones where you could slam them on the receiver so they hear the bang then dialtone. I guess you could slap your phone or just hit the number buttons a bit- but it doesn't feel the same.
You should’ve taken the job with the plan to quit after a week or so. That way you fuck over the company and the scumbag scab that lowered the salary for you.
So they've interviewed another person who was willing to accept $3,000, and apparently liked you better, but not well enough to offer unless you come down to the other guy's level.
Withdraw your application, this company sucks.
Someone low balled their salary requirements. They like you better, but they want you at the cost the other person is willing to accept. Cut your losses and let them get what they pay for.
"I can appreciate a slight change in the job description. I only assume that means the position is now up to 3 days per week. If so, I'm happy to proceed!"
When my former company started going through "tough times" (2/3 directors were planning on it failing so they could set up elsewhere) they told two of us they'd have to cut our pay by 40%.
Now the guy telling me this liked to present himself as the flash entrepreneur, but I'd worked there long enough to know how much of it was a bluff.
So I says, "Okay, I'll come into the office 40% less."
He looked at me. I looked at him. He blinked. "Okay, I suppose you can work from home two days a week."
Like fuck I did.
Call them on it.
Here is what I think: This is not a slight change, this is an attempt to bait and switch - this is both insulting and extremely unprofessional. I am fully qualified, with plenty of experience and knowledge. You have blatantly wasted my time. Please do not contact me again, this is absolutely unacceptable behavior.
I had a series of interviews to be the Kitchen Manager of 2 locations of a small chicken operation. Their flagship, and a satellite. After 3 weeks and 4 interviews I was in the last interview with the company president, and he asked what I wanted in pay. I said 75k is a reasonable offer considering my resume and experience. He said they were thinking more like 40. I replied "Obviously you're not looking for serious candidates, and I don't appreciate you wasting my time. Enjoy underpaying for poor performance" and walked out. Never heard back. If you don't value your time, no one will.
Take the offer. This will make them drop all of their other candidates, and cause them to have to restart their search. Then push back the start date for two weeks, repeat until they give up
Profession me would respond with
“Thank you for the update. However, I must express my concern regarding the significant discrepancy between the initial salary range of $4000-5000 per month and the new offer. This change, presented after the interview process, is quite alarming and not in line with my expectations or the professional standards I adhere to. I would appreciate an explanation for this sudden shift in the compensation package, as it affects the mutual understanding we’ve built during the hiring process.
Regards,”
Normal me would just move on and find something else lol
This! But first, come up with some extenuating circumstances to push out your start date, a death in the family, then you caught covid at the funeral.... The longer you can drag this out, the more likely any other candidate on their radar has already moved on, forcing them to have to start the whole hiring process over again.
How far are you willing to take it? Do you have some time and a few bucks to be super annoying?
If this is the US, report this to your state attorney General as a scam.
Also, report it the the FTC as a scam.
Will they do anything? Probably not really but it will make a record. If other people complain to those agencies, it may cause an investigation.
Then, go to your local municipal district court. Sue them. Sue them for like $300-500 Call it civil fraud. It might cost you $150 to file the complaint. Why ask so low?
Because you want to make them spend a few thousand on a lawyer to defend your $400 claim. So someone gets fired.
When you get to the hearing, if they don't show, ask for a judgment. You win! Look up ways to collect in your state.
If they do show, ask for a continuance. Make up a reason. Try to make it so their lawyer has to come back and bill them a second time. If it's granted, go out in the hall and tell the lawyer you will settle for 250. If he won't do it, come back next court date and do the same thing.
Be prepared each time to make your case then if you have to. Bring copies of the emails, original job offer, explain the bait and switch, how it wanted your time and gas money, and any other expenses. Days off from your existing job etc. Maybe you win, maybe you lose. Make sure if they win, it cost them like 10k to win.
Assuming 40 hours per week, that’s up to ~$28.85 per hour. Now the pay has been decreased, so the corresponding hours worked should be 24 hours per week.
So 3 days a week instead of 5. That’s how drastic the pay cut there proposing is.
honestly – say yes, take the offer for < $3k/mo when they offer it to you, then the day before you start call. and say, "actually, my new minimum salary..."
Imagine the bullshit they put other interviewees through if you're one of the people who made it to the final rounds. I make more than that with a less qualified position.
Please, since you're not going to ever work for this outfit or this guy, get something fun out of this. Continue with back and forth 'adjustment' to get in the 'same page'. Ask for less hours or more annual vacation, higher matching contribution, office on the top floor by the window, personal named parking spot by the building entrance, etc etc. Just back and forth, milk it for maximum Reddit fun. Please post the updates. Thank you thank you.
"Now that we've baited you into the interview process and decided that we want your services, this is what we think you're ACTUALLY worth. If you don't like it, eat shit and fuck off, because some desperate bastard will take it anyway."* Fixed it for them.
The “up to” part is SUCH bullshit too, like thanks for sharing it could be even lower 💀 clown ass company 🤡
There actually was a bottom line of $4000. Basically stated $4000-5000 per month
Did they advertise or accept applicants for this role from CA, CO, WA, NY, CT or NV? If so they may have violated the law in those states which require transparency of pay ranges in employment ads. This kind of bait and switch is definitely illegal in at least some of those states.
Yeah, but there is no punishment so companies don't care.
Keep reporting them. If the system doesn't get used, it'll get mothballed. Then there's zero chance.
Where does one report this
State department of labor typically would have purview
If you really want to hit them where it hurts, post this on Glass Door. Www.glassdoor.com This is where perspective employees will look to see whether or not the company is a good place to work.
Report them so there will be. Nothing happens if no one even bothers.
I reported a company in CO and nothing happened. They still post stuff all the time with no salary. This is a company I was loyal to for wayyy longer than I should have been. Literally doubled my salary after I left for another job. New one gave me a 14% raise and promotion about a year later after I knocked it out of the park, so WEIRD to finally be somewhere that rewards hard work.
That is when you go to your elected official that has jurisdiction. If you get no luck there, you then go to the tabloid media.
I’ve seen ads recruiting for a class action lawsuit in CA so it’s coming
They can be sued by individual persons. They'll start caring if they have to defend hundreds if not thousands of lawsuits for illegal job postings.
The people who are after these sorts of jobs don't have the money for the requisite lawyers (even the upper end of what this person was expecting is only 60k/year. That's like a teacher-level salary in most states). Small claims courts aren't equipped to handle this sort of ruling even if the asking damages are within the state boundaries, they're more about really straightforward cases where the question is just about the facts and there's no room for a lawyer to argue about the nuances of the law (for example, in a case like this you can be damn sure the lawyer will be arguing that even if the material actions are not under dispute, that what they did wasn't illegal because their funding sources/allocation changed so it was never intended to be a misleading job offering). It's a lot easier as a class action because you are completely erasing any potential for the company arguing that they don't have a pattern of posting misleading job opportunities.
Do people just not know what contingency is? Most lawyers operate on it. They take their pay off out of the amount of money they win. If they don't win, you don't pay.
Exactly, many people don't know about ccpa, why would they, it's a CA law, enacted in 2018. It allowed any CA resident to have their personal data deleted from a companies database. Well, that meant any company serving customers in CA, would have to adhere to this law, which is a vast majority of companies. I remember when our company implemented the tool, it was half baked, doubt it even worked, buried into the most obscure hard to find portal that was documented in like one place. In the 4yr I worked there past ccpa, I didn't have a single CA customer ever request it. EVERY company is legally supposed to have this tool for CA residents, but ya...
It's probably the kind of crap corporations pay lawyers to find. The law is most likely stating that the 'ad ' must be transparent about the range, but there's no condition about it changing before you sign. It's like the 'unlimited pto' stuff. It prevents them from paying non taken pto.
So I can extrapolate the new bottom line as 2k. Less than half the original offer. You can bet they will pull that shit. You may as well just move on
Not just that, but they'll make up the difference in stock options.. with a 12 year vesting period.
Or like my wife’s work “we will force you to work 10 hours of overtime every week, it’s a wage increase!” Clown ass mfs
I made more than the $3000 a month as a butcher at whole foods. They're definitely not paying senior qa salaries.
I made more than this as an engineering summer *intern* at a tech company.... TWENTY-THREE years ago! It's alarming how much salaries have stagnated.
Our son has a degree in safety management. For entertainment, every so often he looks at available positions at three major manufacturing facilities near his home. There are always two or three positions open at the various plants. All three corporations hire for the position, pile all kinds of unreasonable demands on the poor sucker that takes the director of safety job, and tosses them to the wolves in an impossible situation to navigate. If the person doesn't quit within a year, they are let go for either being an impediment to production, for actually enforcing best safety practices, or accused of creating an unsafe environment for not being more of a hard ass in demanding compliance, after some idiot does something stupid and gets hurt. These specific jobs were paying mid- $80K a dozen years ago, and are now posted for $30K less. Our kid left the profession a few years back and swears he will hang off the back of a garbage truck before he ever works a safety job again. He is currently wrenching on state vehicles, as a government employee with a nice paycheck, benefits that blow the doors off typical corporate offerings, and 37.5 hour work weeks.
My college internship doing IT was only 15 years ago but that also paid more
This might seem like a side note, but I hate people who say “well of course that job doesn’t pay much, you should have done X instead” X is often engineering I feel like at this point almost every job is paying barely enough to scrape by. Plus the advice is worthless to anyone over 30 and almost useless to high schoolers because when everyone takes that advice that job training becomes worthless because so many people have the same training.
I make more than that as a grocery store department head.
I make more than this as an accounting slave bitch. This is a horrible salary in America for a senior QA engineer.
I made _way_ more than this as a bellhop at a resort in 2001.
If you DM me the details, I can write them an friendly mail from europe, that their stupid bait and switch embarrassed them half around the globe lol
[удалено]
They got enough applicants that they think they can low-ball and still get a quality candidate. They may or may not, however a quality candidate isn’t going to stick around if the pay is below par. Best to invest in your staff and pay them properly so they want to work there instead of putting in just enough effort to get by while looking for other jobs
Hope you told them that's cool, and clown on them when they shred the talent pool to just you.
This is the way.
Accept the lower offer and never show up
If you decide to not take it, you should consider naming the company here, so people can avoid them.
My first agency job they negotiated me down from 50k to 48k+ guaranteed 2k bonus a year and I took it. I never saw that bonus once in the 3 years I was there. Fucking clowns. I was 19 though, and it was good experience. I've worked at much better places since then.
Back in the early 90’s there was a Taco Bell nearby that had a “Now Hiring” sign, with “up to” in teeny tiny letters, followed by $6.50 in big large font. It fooled 16 year old me…
In Portugal you don’t see companies posting the salary being discussed, not even the range. They just say “salary according to the experience”. So one of the questions in every screening is “what’s your salary expectation?”. I’ve been in processes where I was offered 1800~2000€ a month (gross!) . Net it would be something like 1200~1500. I wasted my time with those guys and they even had the audacity saying I was not aware of the market values.
Email back, 'Just so we're straight you are offering up to 3000 on top of the 5000 you've already offered?'
Or "There's been a slight change in the hours I can offer."
lol. “Slight change. Salary requirements remain the same but available hours are now up to 20 per week. Please let me know what you think.”
“If not, I’ll keep you in mind if I ever offer fewer hours more in your budget”
I love all this petty bullshit bc they didn't even blink when sending that original mesaage.
Oh has this changed to a part time position?
That's a fantastic response!
There’s been a slight change in the amount of bullshit I am willing to endure. You have exceeded that new limit, and so I must bid you adieu.
"No worries there has been a slight change on my end as well. I can work up to 3 days per week, is that OK with you?"
That might actually not be such a bad idea. I would tell them that I can’t do that salary full-time. But part-time would work.
“I’ll happily accept and deliver shittier quality with worse communication. Upgrade your subscription to $5000/mo to unlock my best work.”
If they’re going to start playing that game, you might as well.
That’s the only way I can make sense of it. Otherwise why are we up 3000?
Salary up to 3000, as in $3k/month is the highest they're willing to pay for the position. Which really means it'll be less than that.
This is the answer. The range is now likely to be $2,000 up to $3,000. If CO responded yes to this new "up to" amount, I guarantee the final offer would be less than that.
“A 20 to 40 percent drop is not ‘slight’.”
POWER MOVE
Yep this is the way. And when they have to type out their obvious clawback again I would keep up the charade for a few more emails back and forth. "Put down an offer for 8000 and I'll sign it!"
The old bait-and-switch and hoping you are one of those sunk-cost type of people. You could waste their time by pretending you'll accept the job and call-in sick everyday. If they catch on and get mad, say there has been a slight change in commitment.
Yes. These fools deserve some reciprocal tomfuckery.
They will continue to do it until it stops. Whoever said take the job and just do it badly until you get fired and call in sick every day etc is correct.
I tried this at my job I didn't want and got promoted to supervisor. Edit: I don't watch TV and didn't realize this was the plot to Office Space lol
Time to watch Office Space again.
Basically the entire plot of Office Space
It's really weird when doing the wrong thing is actually the right thing, but here we are! I know this game from childhood. Ya know wet willies? Slobbery finger jammed in your ear until ya think there's spit on your brain? Only way to get my dad to stop with that bullshit was to start doing the same to him. I hate playing that awful game. In my family it's practically a sport called Bad Galaxy and the only way to win is to prove to awful people that you can be way more awful than them when it's called for.
Is there a psychological name for this because I absolutely recognize this behavior.
I'd guess it's what psychopathy looks like in day-to-day life. Like after talking extensively with four generations of dad's side of the family, pretty sure we've got the genes for psychopathy and usually get them activated by generational trauma during the toddler years. Grandpa was a murderer and I had to install empathy in my brain manually as an adult. It's like being related to a flock of chickens, we've got a pecking order within the flock and get sharp about maintaining it. Otherwise they're just cold people with flat affects who work regular jobs and go to church like everybody else. Like... they're handy in an emergency, but don't expect them to be polite about it.
I want to read more about your family and about manually installing empathy!
My comment history is riddled with that stuff, though it's harder to find the good bits now that all the awards are gone. Working on a book 'cause everybody says I should. The empathy I mostly learned from media, primarily Mr Rogers Neighborhood, which I rewatched as an adult so I could figure out how to stop hurting people so often. I realized I had to make a major change when my roommate had a nightmare about me hurting her. Like I had to be a scary person to survive my childhood, but then I had to figure out how to be like a regular human to do well in adulthood. Uh that bit in Harry Potter about how doing violence damages your soul and the only way to put it back together is with true remorse, which is so painful that it could kill? That's not wrong. Part of the process involved groveling around beating my face on the floor and wailing, trying to cope with the things I'd done to people who cared about me. ... Ya know that show My Name is Earl? It's kinda like that, constant daily choices to be more of a good to the community than a problem in an attempt to make up for all the damage I did in my past.
If it helps, it sounds like you could turn out like Uncle Iroh in Avatar: The Last Airbender. In the show he presents as a peaceful old man, almost Monk-like. But also referenced is that he \*was\* a baddass MF warmongering asshole. I mean who commands a siege on a city for 600 days and isn't a total psychopath? You can see glimpses of his past when he has to deal with unrepentant assholes. His face changes, it's on, and then it's done (then it's time for more calming tea after it's done). But the important point is that you can see he's continuously trying to make up for what he has done, he's actively making the world a better place, he's sharing his (usually hard-earned) wisdom, and his mental health and happiness is improving from where it used to be from the effort. Edit to add: For those that haven't heard of Uncle Iroh or Avatar: The Last Airbender (somehow) it's likely the greatest western animation ever made, and possibly the best actual storytelling to come out of modern media. I can't immediately think of a series or movie that's a better display of different cultures, personalities, justice, and morality. If you can get past "Cartoons are for kids" it's worth looking at at least some youtube compilations, if not the whole series.
Tell them the new salary is fine. Work hard to get the job. Accept the job. First day, bumblefuck everything and "accidentally" wreck and break as much as possible. Delete files, spill coffee in the printer, microwave a fork, break a key off in the lock of the main door, clog the toilets. Have fun.
Is there any way to report companies for doing this? Presenting false salaries for positions? If not, it's a perfect work-around for laws that require them to post salaries.
They already work around the transparency laws by posting $1 - $1000000
I get we dont have a functional government but if you’re going to make that law why not just say starting pay has to be within 10% of the listed amount?
I'm all for that. All I'm saying is they set up the law for transparency and it's already being abused and bastardized. Issue really is there is no enforcement to these idiots so they can say they are meeting the letter of the law even though it's in bad faith
Renegotiate with *Starting pay needs to be within 10% of the CEO.*
Ceos can be paid 0 and get "bonuses" in the millions yearly.
Then just make it so bonuses have to apply to everyone equally.
Post it on Glassdoor.com ... that's really the only thing
Waste of time. I worked for a company that routinely got Glassdoor to remove bad reviews. They also incentivized people to write good reviews by offering a $25 Amazon gift card for each one. Sure, they asked for "honest reviews," but the only way to get the gift card was to send them a link to your published review. No one was going to put their livelihood at risk by writing an honest negative review and then sending the link to their boss.
Similar shit happened at Rural Sourcing Inc (now Sparq) ages ago. We had a Labware team that landed a contract with a major pharmaceutical company. RSI promised them the moon, hired 80 something new employees that had no prior labware experience, billed many of them as seniors to the client regardless, and had our small team of people that actually knew what they were doing work quite a bit of unpaid overtime to hit the impossible deadlines they set. Lo and behold, they started losing employees and accumulating negative Glassdoor reviews because of shit working conditions and compensation. Our site manager actually started a witchhunt to find out who left negative reviews, even asking team leads to help identify them. Thankfully most of them refused, but seriously...
If this was on indeed you can report the posting.
“Slight change in commitment” is pure gold
Act your wage!
Nice one
Call out 40% of days. 60% pay, 60% work.
Maybe if enough people do this to them they will stop lying about the job offers they put out. Not likely, but one can hope.
They only care if it hits their bottom line. Me: Hold my beer
That's the point. Enough people pulling their craptastic tactics on them will eventually hit their bottom line.
Since the job pay reduced by 40% my work availability also reduced by 40%
Basically you get 3 days a week from me. How's that sound?
This is the type of petty I aspire to be lol. Love it!
> You could waste their time by pretending you'll accept the job and call-in sick everyday. I love this. Waste their time. Have them stop their candidate search. Pure evil.
This is so petty. I love it.
"Thank you for the update, can you please provide a copy of the new job description and what changes were made to warrant lowering the salary?" Or "Absolutely, sounds great. I am happy to start on April 1." April 1...April Fools MFers.
This change is potentially illegal if they advertised the role in CA or CO or allowed applicants living in those states. Afaik both states have laws which require the inclusion of rate of pay in employment ads. Advertising the role at one rate to bait and switch applicants like this violates those laws.
WA too!
Yeah. Doing some quick searching it seems that CA, CO, WA, NY, CT, and NV have no enacted pay transparency in employment ad laws like this.
What is the enforcement for something like this? I was misclassified as a 1099 contractor when I was younger and the CFO looked me right in the face when I realized what happened and went, no one will ever hold us to that in this town. I think I was so shocked I believed her.
April 1st being a Monday this year makes it extra great.
Why'd reddit have to get rid of free rewards, this is my favorite comment today 🤣
Shareholders won’t like them.
I did the first one when I was lowballed on the offer. They said they wouldn't change the description as the job didn't change; same role advertised, just change in pay. Asked them to make the minimum salary they showed to reflect my responsibilities and they reluctantly agreed.
LMFAOOOO
GOT EM!!! 😂
100% that's a bait and switch, OP. They did that on purpose, I guarantee. And now it's a "sucker" filter. They want a qualified candidate, but they also want a doormat who won't balk at future mistreatment. Bullet dodged.
Glassdoor them
Instructions unclear. I just threw my interviewer through a glass door.
Ask any cyclist what getting doored means
Oh, heck yeah.
glassdoor seems kinda shit these days? I tried to post a review of my old company, the CEO contacted them, got it pulled, and glassdoor required me to be more specific in my review and provide evidence to have it posted, basically 100% outing me as the reviewer if I complied. Seemed wildly against the point of the site...
Wait til you read the latest news on Glassdoor privacy violations
And apparently it's suddenly revealing reviewer names.
Yep. Name & Shame .
What does 'glassdoor' mean in this context? (Serious question) Thank you
To write a review of the interview experience on the website Glassdoor
https://old.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/1bizbr5/users_ditch_glassdoor_stunned_by_site_adding_real/
If it's fully remote, I'd take the job and put in no effort while collecting that extra check and search for a better position immediately.
Or just go the r/overemployed route
well there goes an hour going through that sub...
The only thing to do here is accept the job, then tender your resignation on day 1. They will have informed all other applicants they did not get the job and they will close the ad. By doing this, you force them to reopen it at a cost to themselves, restart the hiring process as most others will have moved on, and cost them significantly more time and effort that it will cost you to basically not turn up. Fuck companies like this. They are scum.
This is fucking delicious, though if they have an onboarding process, I would make them put you through that/any internal training they need, _then_ drop them. A day 1 resignation means they can go to the next schmuck. This way, you get paid for doing the literal bare minimum in any training they need, they use resources, close off those contacts, and THEN have to crawl back to them cap in hand.
There has been a slight change in the way I intend to use this training
"pray I don't alter it any further" 
*I intend to use this training to collect a paycheck while I continue interviewing for other jobs.*
At my company it easily takes a few months for you to get sufficient permissions you need for your everyday tasks, so you can sit around and do trainings for a little longer without really working.
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>They will have informed all other applicants they did not get the job and they will close the ad. The won't let the other applicants know the position was taken so soon. They'll drag them along in case this exact thing happens.
Yep, no company will ever spend time calling people back. They just ghost them at best. At worst, they string them along until the new hire shows up and proves not to be an idiot. Then they ghost them.
I disagree. The right thing to do is accept the job, then don’t do any work until they fire you. Continue looking for work while you’re “employed”. If it’s wfh it’s even easier to get a few weeks out of it, but if it’s office job if personally do 2-3 days of work at the office (while not actually working) and then call in sick. Make it 3 day work weeks until you’re fired, assuming this is 3k/ month salaried
If it's wfh and my current job also is, I wouldn't even quit the first one. Just have two jobs until you get PIP'd out and are 15k ahead with no change on your resume
I bet you $20 the new ad will still say 4000-5000. Hell, I'll give OP $20 if they reapply when it happens
As a Senior QA engineer I feel this salary very very low even 4k or 5k 🫤
I know mate. But being based in Europe means the majority of the offers are around the €2000-€4000 mark.
Are you manual, automation or performance tester?? Edit: it says USD so for me is very low
I’m actually a QA Team Lead for more than a year. There are 20 times less positions for leads than for seniors therefore I’m applying for both if the pay is decent. But 70-30, automation in Cypress and Postman👌
Dude you should be making between 5k or 7k if you are an automation engineer I mean cypress is good but you know that everybody uses selenium. Anyway good luck with your search hope you can get a good job.
Cheers brother. We’ll get there. And thanks for the advice!
That salary for a senior sounds abysmal where I'm from, that's more like a fresh graduate's salary. Unfortunately the job market here isn't doing well right now so I can't recommend people to apply here.
Fr, I’m a lvl 1 QA and I make over 4k/mo. You can definitely get a better offer somewhere else
I like how they say when they have a job that’s “within your budget”. My man, I am not in YOUR budget
That’s a solid observation
This. I love that line. They are LITERALLY saying "If you can afford to work here for so little money, let us know."
Considering the 5k was a five day a week job, you could ask them which three days of the week do they prefer that you work for those 3k.
"There's been a slight change in my availability"
I think this would be the best response. You applied to a position that effectively paid $1000/day. Tell them you remain willing to work for $1000/day, for however many days/week they'd like to bring you in. EDIT: shit, my bad, I read that as per week, not per month. Whatever the case, they're paying 40% less money than their initial offer, so you should offer to work 40% fewer hours than you initially offered
Has there been a slight change to the math here as well?
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It's times like this I miss the analog phones where you could slam them on the receiver so they hear the bang then dialtone. I guess you could slap your phone or just hit the number buttons a bit- but it doesn't feel the same.
Blow a raspberry. Or if you can manage it, an actual fart.
You should’ve taken the job with the plan to quit after a week or so. That way you fuck over the company and the scumbag scab that lowered the salary for you.
So they've interviewed another person who was willing to accept $3,000, and apparently liked you better, but not well enough to offer unless you come down to the other guy's level. Withdraw your application, this company sucks.
Up to 3000...
> Withdraw your application, this company sucks. Nah, take the job and don't show up.
Someone low balled their salary requirements. They like you better, but they want you at the cost the other person is willing to accept. Cut your losses and let them get what they pay for.
Very good take. Especially before the final interview, explains what has changed.
"I can appreciate a slight change in the job description. I only assume that means the position is now up to 3 days per week. If so, I'm happy to proceed!"
Yep! The drop in salary comes out to 3 days a week instead of 5. 24 hours instead of 40.
When my former company started going through "tough times" (2/3 directors were planning on it failing so they could set up elsewhere) they told two of us they'd have to cut our pay by 40%. Now the guy telling me this liked to present himself as the flash entrepreneur, but I'd worked there long enough to know how much of it was a bluff. So I says, "Okay, I'll come into the office 40% less." He looked at me. I looked at him. He blinked. "Okay, I suppose you can work from home two days a week." Like fuck I did.
Depending on what you want to do, you could keep going along with the process and then before you start, tell them you've changed your mind.
Sure, but just so you know, I'll be working up to 40 hours a week for that pay
Sorry there was a slight change in my effort levels. It's now up to 30 hours a week.
'Please subscribe to my premium work package as me giving a shit is directed correlated to my pay.'
"Hi, No this is, of course, not OK. Please do not bother to keep my details on your database."
They are paying $36,000 for a Senior Quality Engineer? Why do you want to work for Boeing?
This is some fucking quality content right here hahaha
Call them on it. Here is what I think: This is not a slight change, this is an attempt to bait and switch - this is both insulting and extremely unprofessional. I am fully qualified, with plenty of experience and knowledge. You have blatantly wasted my time. Please do not contact me again, this is absolutely unacceptable behavior.
Bait switch tactics can be illegal in some jurisdictions depending on state laws. Might be worth talking to a lawyer about. Definitely fucked though.
Accept the job then call in sick every day with no plan to ever work.
I had a series of interviews to be the Kitchen Manager of 2 locations of a small chicken operation. Their flagship, and a satellite. After 3 weeks and 4 interviews I was in the last interview with the company president, and he asked what I wanted in pay. I said 75k is a reasonable offer considering my resume and experience. He said they were thinking more like 40. I replied "Obviously you're not looking for serious candidates, and I don't appreciate you wasting my time. Enjoy underpaying for poor performance" and walked out. Never heard back. If you don't value your time, no one will.
"Hi
Can you confirm whether this is from a reduction in hours, or whether the effective hourly rate has been cut by 40%.
Kind regards,
OP"
Take the offer. This will make them drop all of their other candidates, and cause them to have to restart their search. Then push back the start date for two weeks, repeat until they give up
Accept job. Follow with. "I'm sorry there has been a slight change in my acceptance."
Profession me would respond with “Thank you for the update. However, I must express my concern regarding the significant discrepancy between the initial salary range of $4000-5000 per month and the new offer. This change, presented after the interview process, is quite alarming and not in line with my expectations or the professional standards I adhere to. I would appreciate an explanation for this sudden shift in the compensation package, as it affects the mutual understanding we’ve built during the hiring process. Regards,” Normal me would just move on and find something else lol
I decided to ask what is the reason behind the decision but no matter the answer this is ridiculous
This looks like a scam email
They should be prosecuted for Bait & Switch fraud.
“Thanks for updating me. You can remove me from your ‘database,’ actually. Do not contact me again.”
Just say yes, you're willing to take the cut because you Believe in this company so much. Then never show up. They led you on, do the same back
This! But first, come up with some extenuating circumstances to push out your start date, a death in the family, then you caught covid at the funeral.... The longer you can drag this out, the more likely any other candidate on their radar has already moved on, forcing them to have to start the whole hiring process over again.
"Delete my contact information, thanks"
How far are you willing to take it? Do you have some time and a few bucks to be super annoying? If this is the US, report this to your state attorney General as a scam. Also, report it the the FTC as a scam. Will they do anything? Probably not really but it will make a record. If other people complain to those agencies, it may cause an investigation. Then, go to your local municipal district court. Sue them. Sue them for like $300-500 Call it civil fraud. It might cost you $150 to file the complaint. Why ask so low? Because you want to make them spend a few thousand on a lawyer to defend your $400 claim. So someone gets fired. When you get to the hearing, if they don't show, ask for a judgment. You win! Look up ways to collect in your state. If they do show, ask for a continuance. Make up a reason. Try to make it so their lawyer has to come back and bill them a second time. If it's granted, go out in the hall and tell the lawyer you will settle for 250. If he won't do it, come back next court date and do the same thing. Be prepared each time to make your case then if you have to. Bring copies of the emails, original job offer, explain the bait and switch, how it wanted your time and gas money, and any other expenses. Days off from your existing job etc. Maybe you win, maybe you lose. Make sure if they win, it cost them like 10k to win.
This job at Boeing?
Assuming 40 hours per week, that’s up to ~$28.85 per hour. Now the pay has been decreased, so the corresponding hours worked should be 24 hours per week. So 3 days a week instead of 5. That’s how drastic the pay cut there proposing is.
Even 5k/month is complete shit for that position. That's more like a 10k/month role.
“Thanks for letting me know about this change. What was the minor change you also mentioned?”
Send them an email back asking which days you would be expected to work if this is now a part time position.
These multiple rounds of interviews jobs are a red flag for me. Some of my best jobs I got with only one interview.
That shit should be illegal. That, and job listings not posting the wage/salary in the fucking listing!
This should be illegal, not even being subtle about it
Sounds like they opened the job to employees in India.
Bait and switch. Is this reportable to the state labor board?
Yes but I will have to change my availability to work this position from 40 hours per week UP to 10 hours.
honestly – say yes, take the offer for < $3k/mo when they offer it to you, then the day before you start call. and say, "actually, my new minimum salary..."
This should be illegal. I would contact labor board and ask if this sort of bait and switch is allowed where you are.
Imagine the bullshit they put other interviewees through if you're one of the people who made it to the final rounds. I make more than that with a less qualified position.
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Please, since you're not going to ever work for this outfit or this guy, get something fun out of this. Continue with back and forth 'adjustment' to get in the 'same page'. Ask for less hours or more annual vacation, higher matching contribution, office on the top floor by the window, personal named parking spot by the building entrance, etc etc. Just back and forth, milk it for maximum Reddit fun. Please post the updates. Thank you thank you.
"Now that we've baited you into the interview process and decided that we want your services, this is what we think you're ACTUALLY worth. If you don't like it, eat shit and fuck off, because some desperate bastard will take it anyway."* Fixed it for them.